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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-28

---Logopened Wed Jan 28 00:00:47 2015
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02:43<V453000>NOTBUGZ :)
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03:03<Supercheese>Should put RAWR on here: https://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32_bpp_graphics
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03:22<V453000>did dat
03:28<Supercheese> :)
03:29<V453000>rawr so famous now
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03:37<ST2>only took a quick look but seems like a real ROOAAARRRR and not a simple "meow"
03:37<ST2>good job V453000 :)
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03:41<V453000>:)
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06:49<dreck>hi
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08:04<supermop>yo
08:05<__ln__>
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08:06<V453000>ř
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08:12<dreck>hi
08:12<dreck>:)
08:16<supermop>goodnight
08:16<dreck>night? its 08:17 here :)
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09:30<dreck>sorry to ask again as I somehow forgot what was mentioned..how much can you change a locomotive through refit before you have to use a separate id for it or doing that weird regearthinge/etc?
09:31<@planetmaker>you can change it as much as you want. The question is: what is sensible and do you care about players and their expectation on how autorenew and autoreplace works
09:32<@planetmaker>IMHO use a new ID for any change. Refit is for cargo, not for stats
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09:34<dreck>planetmaker heh yeah I didn't like how NARS (I think thats where it happened but been a while so I might be mixed up) seemingly give you three different locomotives for the same id automatically..and even if you try check the refit window in the depot it still doesn't show you any options
09:34<dreck>that is a bad way to do it in my view anyway ^
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09:35<@planetmaker>offering refit for different livery, though, why not. That doesn't matter really much :)
09:37<dreck>true that
09:38<dreck>btw you had me there tho..I'll have to check what kind of renew/refit combos wouldn't work as given
09:39<@planetmaker>point is: with renew active I expect the vehicle to not change stats (no change of them with time)
09:39<@planetmaker>autoreplace doesn't work, if you offer different gearings (or whatever) for the same vehicle. Thus use different IDs for that
09:40<dreck>planetmaker heh you'll hate NARS (again I wish I could remember if it was actually that grf or something else) :)
09:40<@planetmaker>I know how nars works, yes
09:40<@planetmaker>and yes, it does all that
09:40<dreck>eg buy one steam locomotive in 1920 ...then in 1934 you get something different even although the refit window is EMPTY .. that is the dumbest way to do it in my view like I was saying already :)
09:41<dreck>but anyway .. yeah livery refits - who cares as its only cosmetic :)
09:41<@planetmaker>and cargo of course :)
09:41<dreck>I'll admit I do kinda like the idea of a grf letting you choose between automatic and manual liveries tho
09:41<dreck>eg canset lets you pick between CN and CP paintstyle on earlier passenger trains yourself
09:42<@planetmaker>make the default livery (subtype0) choose random(=automatic) and choose subtypes 1...n for manual selection
09:42<dreck>that indeed ^
09:42<andythenorth>canset doesn’t let you do anything any more
09:43<dreck>oh yeah and the newish SBB set also lets you either see mixed freight wagons or to set the whole thing to one single livery (but you can't choose which one..ah well)
09:43<@planetmaker>it's open-source. Get it, fix it, provide patch :)
09:43<dreck>:p
09:44<@planetmaker>I'm sure dandan wouldn't mind
09:45<dreck>anyway ty either way .. back to a little more spreadsheeting then have to see someone for a while :->
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11:11<dreck>back
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11:24<dreck>hmm planetmaker I just remembered one other reason I wanted poke around with the refit's limits...
11:24<dreck>kinda wondering if smoke plume has to come from same spot all the times or a cosmetic refit could make it come from a different spot :)
11:31<@planetmaker>hu?
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>there is a smoke callback that lets you do all kinds of fancy stuff in 1.5
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if it's already in 1.4
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>may be called "effect vehicle" or something
11:32<@planetmaker>yes, there is. I just wonder why that would need a refit
11:33<@planetmaker>Train engines are not sports cars where people tune their exhaust pipe for moar sound and compensation of their missing male parts
11:35<dreck>planetmaker ROFL .. well tbh it would look weird if a locomotive was smoking from the cab instead of from where the engine actually is another 10 pixels further back :)
11:35<dreck>but anyway ty to you two
11:36<dreck>I'll think about livery/smoke refit versus dupliciating the loco id just to fit the different body styles
11:37<@planetmaker>well, sure, it's just cosmetics... it's like a different paint
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12:58<andythenorth>Alberth: the total combinations of states for industry open / close is quite complex :)
12:58<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:59<andythenorth>he wants the game to build at map gen time, but not during gameplay, but player can build
12:59<andythenorth>there are two OTTD settings to also account for :P
12:59<@Alberth>you need enough settings to confuse everybody :)
13:00<@Alberth>hmm, very tricky, perhaps if you can change the industry gen setting through the console, it could work
13:00<@Alberth>but that's pretty much unexaplainable
13:01<andythenorth>it could be done in FIRS, I just have no inclination to do it :)
13:03<@planetmaker>hi hi
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is the complexity? "Industry over time: open&close|open|static"
13:03<@planetmaker>indeed a setting like "don't close / open industries" makes sense from a scenario POV. Without newgrf interference
13:04<@Alberth>in the new mapgen window perhaps
13:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: open isn’t a single state
13:05<andythenorth>player open
13:05<andythenorth>GS open
13:05<andythenorth>random open
13:05<andythenorth>player & random open
13:05<andythenorth>player & GS open
13:05<andythenorth>etc blah
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13:05<@planetmaker>bitmask of open states :)
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's nonsense. only the "random open" needs a setting
13:05<andythenorth>also they seem to want control over primary and secondary
13:05<andythenorth>probably
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13:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm assuming you forbid random opening, but permit player opening through setting the appearance chances to 0
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>there are already separate appearance chances for game creation and gameplay, so you don't have to special case that
13:10<andythenorth>plausible
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>"Industry over time: industries randomly open&close | industries randomly open, but never close | industries open through funding only, and never close"
13:12<andythenorth>that’s just the FIRS state
13:12<andythenorth>There are also two OTTD settings to consider
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>why would you?
13:13<andythenorth>maybe I wouldn’t
13:13<andythenorth>but seems like there are a lot of bug reports on this
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>what's the harm if they say "industries can only be funded" and also set primary funding to disabled?
13:13<andythenorth>otoh other people seem to answer the bug reports, not me
13:14<andythenorth>I usually ignore anything to do with this stuff in FIRS
13:14<andythenorth>your list also needs “industries never open”
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>what for?
13:15<andythenorth>because features may not be removed
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>just make them really really expensive :p
13:15<andythenorth>FIRS already provides ‘no opening'
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's not "remove a feature", it's "change the semantics of the feature"
13:16*andythenorth plots Lumberjack
13:16<andythenorth>new set, new rules
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>?
13:16<andythenorth>FIRS 2
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>?
13:16<andythenorth>remove the broken
13:17<andythenorth>closer to original TTD
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>i can't follow...
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>use more words
13:18<andythenorth>to make major changes to the set, demands a new version
13:18<andythenorth>the new version is an opportunity to remove most of the bad features
13:18<andythenorth>and inevitably, invent new bad features
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>and how is this a "major change"?
13:19<andythenorth>removing a player feature?
13:19<andythenorth>removal of the ‘Prevent industries opening during gameplay’ param
13:20<andythenorth>in favour of new options, or just remove it totally
13:20<andythenorth>if I do that in FIRS, someone is going to pop up and whine about it
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>sure, if you make irrational roundhouse kicks to get rid of features you're annoyed to fix, people will whine
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13:26<frosch123>V453000: if you want a third opinion, press ctrl+b. then you have 3 alignemnts: zbase, rawr, ottd
13:27<@Alberth>it's a myth that you will have enough options, people will always find new combinations that you didn't implement
13:28<V453000>right sooo
13:28<V453000>align to bounding boxes I assume
13:29<frosch123>likely they are all wrong :) zbase, rawr, bounding boxes, 1x sprites :)
13:30<V453000>XD
13:30<V453000>even bounding boxes are ronk?
13:30<frosch123>you can only trust them +-1 pixel or so
13:31<frosch123>other than that, we should define sane offsets, and then fix zbase and/or rawr
13:31<V453000>well I guess it is the most solid convention to align to
13:31<frosch123>using different offsets will hurt all non-basesets like yeti
13:31<@planetmaker><frosch123> other than that, we should define sane offsets, and then fix zbase and/or rawr <-- definitely :)
13:31<V453000>well I can fix yeti easily :)
13:32<@planetmaker>we can fix all those "easily". It's just... still lots of work ;)
13:32<V453000>and since there arent really any other serious 32bpp newGRFs with land/building/industry tiles, setting up something good would be great
13:32<V453000>earlier better :)
13:32<frosch123>V453000: dou you have some plain ground sprites? i.e. just the shape with no texture?
13:33<V453000>sure, the masks
13:33<V453000>even in the rep
13:33<V453000>o
13:33<frosch123>ok, maybe i try to align them vs. ottd internals, then we can add them to newgrf specs wiki
13:33<V453000>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/rawr/repository/show/POSTPRODUCTION/tile_masks
13:34<V453000>I would greatly appreciate that
13:34<V453000>it is one of the things I am very WTF about since the beginning
13:34<@planetmaker>probably a good idea
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13:35<Eddi|zuHause>the alignment point should be the top corner
13:35<V453000>define point in pixels xD
13:35<frosch123>yes, but that definition also has only a precision of +-1 pixel :)
13:35<V453000>^
13:36<frosch123>wow, only 5 minutes to clone
13:36<frosch123>i expected hours
13:36*andythenorth wonders what Lumberjack should keep or bin from FIRS
13:36<V453000>nah rawr is small :) 600mb or so
13:36<andythenorth>secondary industry combining cargos for more output? Keep?
13:36<andythenorth>kind of annoys me
13:37<frosch123>it's a reward
13:37<frosch123>rewards are a good feature, aren't they?
13:37<andythenorth>probly
13:37<andythenorth>30 days is quite short
13:37<V453000>frosch123: NUTS is pushing for 4 hours already :P
13:37<andythenorth>mitigates against long routes
13:38<andythenorth>supplies: been discussed to death, no convincing better idea proposed. Keep?
13:38<frosch123>V453000: yeti is the reason i enabled the "progress" extension :p
13:38<V453000>XD progress extension?
13:39<frosch123>makes hg display how much it has done, instead of staying silent for hours
13:39<frosch123>no idea how to do that with tortoisehg, if you are using that
13:39<V453000>xd
13:40<andythenorth>industry date restrictions: remove
13:40<@planetmaker>thg probably comes with progress enabled
13:41<V453000>yeah I think there are progress bars and info about everywhere
13:41<V453000>handy for my actions. :D
13:41<V453000>311/387 :) over 75% done
13:41<andythenorth>station rating hax: remove
13:42<@planetmaker>though thg doesn't use necessarily hg's command server but its internal API at times
13:42<V453000>yeah that one is also nasty andy
13:42<frosch123>andythenorth: make it a separate grf :)
13:42<andythenorth>water industry max coast distance? Keep?
13:43<frosch123>what are water industries?
13:43<frosch123>i assume not harbors :)
13:43<andythenorth>oil rigs and such
13:43<V453000>SLUG MERCHANTS
13:43<frosch123>fishing grounds?
13:43<andythenorth>yeah
13:43<andythenorth>it’s hax so they can be served by trains
13:43<V453000>rigs, fishing grounds, dredging site?
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13:44<V453000>yeah it is a nice feature andy
13:44<V453000>keep that
13:44<frosch123>keep, gives a usecase for ships
13:44<frosch123>i like transfers, and hate station walking, so easy choice for me
13:44<andythenorth>it’s mostly there so you can build a train station next to your fishing grounds
13:46<andythenorth>clustering, we like?
13:47<V453000>NO.
13:47<V453000>I for one, not one bit
13:47<V453000>it would at least be nice if it would not be pure clustering
13:47<V453000>like if there was at least some chance to have some stray industries away from the cluster
13:48<andythenorth>fewer industries per cluster, higher production
13:48<andythenorth>?
13:49<@planetmaker>sounds like a fundamental issue to decide before a set is started ;)
13:49<andythenorth>kind of wondering about having a design
13:50<andythenorth>designs are apparently good :P
13:50<andythenorth>also goals
13:51<andythenorth>“FIRS annoys me” is not much a good reason for a new one
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>i love clustering
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13:52<@planetmaker>clustering is the only nice, unique and obvious industry placement rule I've seen other than TTD original
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>also, if station rating could be made as independent GRF would be cool
13:52<andythenorth>someone should just extract that from FIRS
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13:55<andythenorth>clustering just needs optimising
13:55<andythenorth>per map size, per economy
13:56<V453000>some clustering perhaps, keep, but I would really like if it would be less strict
13:56<V453000>e.g. now you can find farms ONLY in huge clusters
13:56<andythenorth>I think that’s a bug
13:56<V453000>well it works that way with kind of everything
13:57<V453000>farms are probably easier to see because they are in higher numbers
13:57<andythenorth>I think it fails to account for map size correctly
13:57<andythenorth>and for number of industry types in economy
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13:58<@planetmaker>I'm not convinced that there's any bug in farm amount for map size
13:59<@planetmaker>they're small output industries, thus come in a handful at once.
13:59<@planetmaker>And the clusters are scaled by map size appropriately last time I checked that code
13:59<andythenorth>there is something amiss somewhere
13:59<andythenorth>notably in the smaller economies
14:00<andythenorth>perhaps there needs to be a max cluster size, but that’s hard to enforce
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14:02<andythenorth>I prefer clusters of 3 or so farms
14:03<andythenorth>more than that becomes an overwhelming number of feeders
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, just have a useful average cluster size (as in (predicted number of industry)/(number of 'seed' industries))
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>also, maybe try to cluster same farm types together, not different farm types
14:04<andythenorth>it does only cluster same types currently
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>a wheat farm next to an animal farm kinda makes for bad feeders
14:04<andythenorth>but there’s nothing to avoid overlapping cluster of other types
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>maybe my map just was too small
14:04<andythenorth>this is a good point
14:04<andythenorth>overlapping other types increases the annoyance with delivering supplies
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>larger minimum distance between farms maybe, to spread out the clusters a bit
14:06<andythenorth>+1
14:08<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, firs clusters currently are farm mono-cultures
14:09<andythenorth>maybe a GS should build them :P
14:09<andythenorth>for fine-grained control
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see that working well
14:11<andythenorth>I don’t see it adding much beyond what’s already possible, if newgrf handles it carefully
14:11<andythenorth>I do think farms need higher base production
14:11<andythenorth>the original case was “andythenorth doesn’t like long queues of trucks at every farm"
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>maybe not base production, but boosted production
14:12<andythenorth>with the intention also of adding a truck set with 15t trucks (realisms)
14:16<andythenorth>bogus case
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14:16<andythenorth>farm production should be ~similar to mines and such
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>... there is cat
14:21<andythenorth>at last
14:21<andythenorth>mystery solved
14:26<andythenorth>was there any conclusion on delivering cargo to more than one industry in a station catchment?
14:26<andythenorth>iirc, it was “nah, that’s cheating”?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>that was almost certainly not it
14:29<frosch123>there was a "will be fixed along catchment area" :p
14:30<andythenorth>it’s relevant w.r.t clustering
14:30<andythenorth>and what min. distance to enforce in a cluster
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>it probably won't happen in the near future
14:31<andythenorth>probably worth pushing up min distance within a cluster then
14:33<andythenorth>cases like this are silly http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7040/silly.png
14:33<andythenorth>the RV is just enforcing round-robin supplies
14:40<V453000>I dont see any rawr there andythenorth :P
14:41<andythenorth>eNoRAWR
14:49<andythenorth>renaming water-industry stations? o_O
14:49<andythenorth>apparently
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>nothing that should concern you at all
15:02<andythenorth>seems to be just how the game works
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15:09<andythenorth>is there a hotkey for ‘no loading’ when setting orders?
15:10<andythenorth>similar to ctrl for ‘full load'
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15:11<dreck>hi
15:11<dreck>just wanted to check with someone but what is settings_newgame even used for at all?
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15:14<frosch123>you can configure settings while a game is running, and then start a new one
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15:15<andythenorth>I use it very often
15:15<andythenorth>for newgrf purposes
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15:18<dreck>well I'm wondering if rcon can be broken by something then because rcon settings errors about not being able to do that in network games .. but settings_newgame gets wiped out as soon as the actual new game loads apparently (or thats what I seem to be getting from short talk with ngc)
15:18<dreck>or maybe it just wasn't meant for that..I dunno...still looking
15:19<frosch123>there are conflicting settings
15:19<frosch123>e.g reloading-cfg-from-disk-on-newgame will revert it
15:19<frosch123>and loading a scenario or savegame will also not care about it
15:22<andythenorth>maybe I don’t use that setting :P
15:23<andythenorth>maybe I misunderstood again :)
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15:24<andythenorth>hmm FIRS Brickworks using wrong ext text
15:24<andythenorth>extra *
15:25<andythenorth>code looks correct afaict
15:25<andythenorth>bad compile?
15:26<dreck>frosch ah now that does make a bit more sense of things.. reloading old cfg in new game ... not sure why I didn't read any tidbits about that
15:26<dreck>thanks, I guess I'll let him know about that too
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: first thing to check is that you're actually testing the right compile
15:29<dreck>hm well one quick related question if you don't mind .. is 'rcon settings' (as in for the current game) supposed to be limited in its actual useage or thats up to the particular setup of openttd itself?
15:30<andythenorth>first thing is to find a charger, out of battery
15:30<frosch123>some settings cannot be changed in a running game
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>dreck: some settings are limited by the game logic
15:30<dreck>I assume bridge length would be one of these? :)
15:30<frosch123>multiplayer is somewhat more strict than singleplayer
15:31<frosch123>anyway, it will tell you if it is not allowed
15:31<dreck>thanks for confirming it anyway ^ :)
15:31<dreck>at least I don't have to pester ngc on all things..I still can pause the game and whatsnot
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15:33<Wolf01>hi o/
15:34<dreck>hi wolf? :)
15:34<andythenorth>Wolf01: you’ve been to EB today?
15:34<andythenorth>Nuremberg pictures
15:34<Wolf01>yeah
15:34<Wolf01>the new mercedes will be mine!
15:34<andythenorth>so is the digger any good?
15:34<andythenorth>also
15:35<Wolf01>yes, it's really cool, not much time to play with but is really pleasant to build and see
15:35<Wolf01>(if you meant the volvo)
15:35<andythenorth>yes
15:36<Wolf01>the new servo motor is wonderful, it has an auto-center feature so you won't get mad with the steering
15:38<andythenorth>yeah, I have one :) https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/16162803761/
15:41<Wolf01>I purchased the "ultra agents mobile base" too (the one with the truck), I found it at the mall with 30€ discount (€69 instead of €99) :O
15:41<Wolf01>more pieces for MOCs :P
15:42<andythenorth>my kids have started unMOCing
15:42<andythenorth>they just break everything :P
15:42<Wolf01>ahah
15:46<andythenorth>is it possible that nml is mangling strings?
15:46<andythenorth>I’ve triple-checked FIRS code
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>nml is doing all sorts of things to strings
15:47<dreck>:->
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>if you think it's a bug, report it.
15:47<andythenorth>want to rule out user error first
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>if you think it's an nml bug, try different versions of nml
15:52<andythenorth>it’s user error
15:53<andythenorth>multiple industries share same ID (I’ve run out of IDs)
15:53<andythenorth>thought that would work, but doesn’t
15:54<andythenorth>FIRS really needs rewritten
15:54<andythenorth>I’m chasing my tail, adding things introduces bugs
15:55<andythenorth>would it be better to have one grf per economy?
15:56<@peter1138>Have one grf but universe.
15:57<andythenorth>sounds like a lyric, maybe bowie
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15:57<@peter1138>Yeah... per... not but...
15:58<andythenorth>one grf for all trains, boats, industries and crap? o_O
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>bowie sang about grfs?
15:58<andythenorth>just call it grf
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sharing IDs is probably easy, if designed correctly
15:59<andythenorth>needs wrapping up in action 6 or whatever it is that nml is hiding from me
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15:59<andythenorth>the entire industry probably
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>if you use old-style callbacks, you can just add a switch before the callback switch that checks the economy
16:01<andythenorth>good point
16:02<andythenorth>I am concerned about growth in compile times from wrapping too many things in “if economy == x”
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't have a lot of effect on compile time. but you cannot wrap callbacks in if-blocks
16:03<Dawnkeeper>is it just me or is the service interval in percent used the other way around as it is described?
16:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: :o I didn’t know that cbs couldn’t be wrapped
16:05<andythenorth>that forces a change of approach
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16:06<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, if you use old-style callbacks, a simple switch will do, otherwise you need to replicate the switch for each callback
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>which should be easy if you use a code generator :)
16:06<andythenorth>my plan is to use a code generator
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16:08<andythenorth>my plan was also to assign industry and cargo ids per economy, or rather, not worry about assigning them at all, just use the order in python step of compile
16:08<andythenorth>managing IDs is pointless, machine can do that
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>managing IDs is what you need if you want the chance to upgrade during the game
16:09<andythenorth>I don’t
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16:09<andythenorth>or rather, I’m prepared to bump min. savegame version frequently
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16:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, "frequently" would be "every single compile"
16:10<andythenorth>you don’t trust the order of a python list?
16:10<andythenorth>I thought they were deteministic?
16:11<andythenorth>deterministic *
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how you use it...
16:11<andythenorth>list of industries (or cargos)
16:11<andythenorth>take the id from position in list
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>but we're talking about an algorithm that merges industries/cargos which are never part of the same economy
16:13<andythenorth>list would be per economy
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>which may be unstable
16:14<andythenorth>cargo / industry ids might be totally different per economy
16:14<andythenorth>dunno, there’s probably something I haven’t thought of that makes it unworkable
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16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like the same cargo should get the same ID regardless of economy
16:14<andythenorth>any reason?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>internal handling stuff, that i won't bother to look up now
16:16<andythenorth>in some respects, it would be much simpler to generate one grf per economy
16:16<andythenorth>also faster compile
16:16<andythenorth>worse for players?
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it matters for players. i didn't do it in CETS because loads of things would be duplicated, but that's less of an issue for industry sets, because you can only load one of them simultaneously
16:19<andythenorth>makes release management harder
16:19<andythenorth>more bananas work
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>bananas work can be automatted
16:20<@planetmaker>silicon valley has a make bananas target ;)
16:21<andythenorth>Choosing basic economy automatically against chosen climate would be tricky :)
16:22<andythenorth>but eh
16:22<andythenorth>it’s worth considering
16:22<andythenorth>the code generation than needs doing is about same either way
16:22<andythenorth>fewer industries should mean faster compile for any single grf
16:22<andythenorth>and fewer unexpected problems due to overlapping IDs
16:23<@planetmaker>and fixing 5 newgrfs for a single bug ;)
16:23<andythenorth>:(
16:23<@planetmaker>I can tell you about that very well from OpenGFX*
16:23<@planetmaker>Damn well annoying
16:24<andythenorth>I had missed that action 7 can’t skip action 2s
16:25<andythenorth>that does bork my plan :P
16:25<andythenorth>I was considering generating entire economy: cargos, industries, wrapped in an action 7
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>you can implement in nmlc that if-blocks on callbacks get converted to switch blocks
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>needs collecting all graphics blocks with their nested if-conditions, and combining them into one switch that is called from the action3
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>it should be possible
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17:02<dreck>that sorta reminds me..is cargo/industry still set to 37 ids?
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17:03<deniz1a>can you install different versions of openttd at the same time?
17:03<frosch123>32 cargo, 64 industries
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17:03<frosch123>deniz1a: yes, don't use the installer, but extract the zip to a different folder
17:04<deniz1a>do i have to uninstall 1.4 to test 1.5?
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17:04<frosch123>the installer will replace an existing installation afaik, so use the zip
17:04<deniz1a>ok. but does it use the same game settings folder etc that are stored in my documents?
17:04<frosch123>by default yes
17:05<deniz1a>ok, thanks
17:06<dreck>ah mm has it been at 64 for quite a while or more or less just recently?
17:06<Wolf01>deniz1a: you can make a stand alone installation by copying the openttd.cfg and the other files in the folder you extracted the zip
17:06<dreck>but thanks..I wasn't going to use more than 20 cargos..nice to know that still
17:06<frosch123>dreck: it has been always those limits in ottd
17:06<Wolf01>it's also portable, you can have it in a thumb drive
17:06<dreck>right, cheers
17:06<frosch123>ttdp has 37 industry limit or similar odd number
17:07<frosch123>the wiki knows it more precise
17:07<@planetmaker>that's a pretty weired one :)
17:07<frosch123>it's the amount of original industries of all climates
17:07<frosch123>ttdp was unable to extent the number, so just overwrites existing ones
17:07<@planetmaker>still :)
17:07<dreck>mm, yeah I guess I'll look into the actions for industry selection then when that time eventually comes..cheers :)
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17:17<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 29 00:00:48 2015