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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-31

---Logopened Sat Jan 31 00:00:51 2015
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02:43<supermop>hmm a problem with animating doors on trains
02:44<supermop>is that if single sided platforms before the norm in newgrfs, there is no way for the train to know which side to open doors on
02:44<supermop>and doors opening on the wrong side looks more bizarre than having double sided platforms everywhere
02:45<supermop>*become te norm
03:05<@peter1138>Yes but...
03:05<@peter1138>They're not.
03:05<@peter1138>The gap's too wide.
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03:27<Wolf01>hi o/
03:45<supermop>wide gap doesnt look bad in station if it's paved or gravel
03:45<supermop>its the copious grass that makes the gap so jarring
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05:07<@Alberth>/me welcomes andy with a lot of trompets
05:09<Wolf01>just finished to trash a lorry full of plastic and boxes to find space for the new lego sets
05:09<Wolf01>and I think more stuff will take the trip to the ceiling
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05:13<@Alberth>attic :)
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05:14<Wolf01>no, ceiling... I'm piling up the boxes in a corner ;)
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you mean heaven :)
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05:23<andythenorth>don’t keep the boxes :P
05:25<Wolf01>eh, I need the boxes to put stuff in (not the lego ones, those are stuffed with other lego boxes until full and develop their own gravity force)
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05:52*andythenorth learns about standard economic classifications again :P
05:53<andythenorth>all the FIRS ‘town’ industries are tertiary
05:54<andythenorth>so naming them that way
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06:17*andythenorth does ‘marketing'
06:22<@Alberth>steel cargo at the iron works looks great
06:24<@Alberth>enjoying your BB game? :)
06:24<andythenorth>need to get back to it
06:24<andythenorth>I am playing with an outdated version, so the bugs are bugging me
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07:05<andythenorth>how are eints translators approved?
07:07<@Alberth>Looks like you have to make an issue at devzone 3rd bullit
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07:16<frosch123>but usually what albert said :)
07:16<andythenorth>so me / someone just needs to approve Brumi?
07:17<frosch123>an admin can add a person to a translator group, which gives translation access to all participating projects
07:17<andythenorth>I have admin
07:18<frosch123>then go to admin->groups, and add a user
07:18<andythenorth>ok he’s in
07:18*andythenorth assumes FIRS inherits
07:20<frosch123>what did you do?
07:20<frosch123>does not look correct to me
07:21<frosch123>ah, you added him to "newgrf project"
07:21<frosch123>that excludes him from game scripts
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07:22<frosch123> <- that would have been the place
07:23<frosch123>it's not specific to a project
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07:38<andythenorth>ho sorry :)
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07:38<andythenorth>I assumed project instructions applied equally to central projects
08:09<supermop>have yet to give up this bb game
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10:36<Yotson>any recommendations for which AI to pick for some casual playing?
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10:38<frosch123>SimpleAi i think is causal
10:39<Yotson>thanks. will try that one.
10:45<andythenorth>CivilAI is interesting
10:45<andythenorth>just builds roads and buses
10:48<andythenorth>can someone just add that industry option to ottd
10:49<andythenorth>it seems like one player is going to cause a dubious option to be added to all known industry sets
10:49<andythenorth>simply by asking over and over again
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10:55<andythenorth>FIRS has a long standing problem where date-restricted industries don’t get easily built by the game during gameplay
10:55<andythenorth>because map is already full
10:55<Sylf>so, for those industries that follows the natural production increase/decrease, we can have a map filled with primary industries with 6t/month production?
10:56*andythenorth wonders if screwing with industry properties after dates x, y, z would make any difference
10:56<andythenorth>or if ottd already does that
10:57<frosch123>ottd already does that
10:57<andythenorth>no point making FIRS more complicated then
10:58<andythenorth>wondered if it was also a nice way to have industry “eras”, but allow player to fund whatever they wish
10:59<Sylf>:D I can force invent aluminum in 17th century using FIRS
10:59<andythenorth>but no
10:59<Sylf>and biodiesel in 12th century
10:59<andythenorth>currently, unless you patch it, you can’t :P
10:59<andythenorth>you ought to be able to though
11:00<andythenorth>complete change of topic, how was nmlc converted to python 3? Manually, or 2to3?
11:02<@Alberth>2to3, and a lot of manual changes to convert to str.format
11:03<@Alberth>and some manual changes for things that 2to3 couldn't do
11:03<@Alberth>mostly io handling, and mixup of bytes with text
11:04<andythenorth>I should convert the FIRS compile
11:04<andythenorth>to learn python 3 API and idioms
11:04<andythenorth>and to remove the clunky mixed-python compile
11:04<andythenorth>I think the deps support 3
11:04<@Alberth>that's useful :)
11:04<andythenorth>even PIL :P
11:05<@Alberth>of course, else nmlc would be dead :p
11:05*andythenorth considers just running 2to3 and crossing fingers
11:06<@Alberth>2to3 is a bit stupid
11:06<andythenorth>dangerously so, or just annoying?
11:06<andythenorth>most magic is bad :P
11:06<@Alberth>dict.keys() and friends are converted to list(dict.keys())
11:07<@Alberth>even in contexts where it's not needed
11:07<andythenorth>that’s urgh
11:07<andythenorth>it’s run
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11:07<andythenorth>it printed a very large number of raises
11:07<@Alberth>have a look at the changes to see if they make sense
11:08<andythenorth>it’s raising on .pypnml files
11:08<andythenorth>that’s an interesting choice
11:08<andythenorth>they’re not python
11:08<andythenorth>they contain some python
11:08<andythenorth>but they’re not a valid python file
11:09<andythenorth>maybe I should do it one directory at a time, to make it manageable
11:09<andythenorth>diff will be huge
11:09<@Alberth>you have that much code?
11:10<@Alberth>I don't remember exactly, but I might also have done some shuffling in python 2 in the right direction
11:10<andythenorth>eh hardly any diff at all
11:10<andythenorth>allegedly this is it
11:11<andythenorth>unicode strings
11:11<andythenorth>change prints
11:12<andythenorth>pip is awesome :P
11:13<andythenorth>python packaging that actually works
11:14<@Alberth>sorted stuff changes around 280-300 seem unneeded
11:14<andythenorth>bit list happy
11:16<@Alberth>it's a safe change, and even preserves cpu costs :p
11:17*andythenorth tests
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11:24<andythenorth>ho problems
11:24<andythenorth>broken docs
11:24<andythenorth>and grf misses any industries
11:25<@Alberth>minor detail :)
11:31<andythenorth>I had better learn what actually changed in python 3
11:32<@Alberth>doesn't hurt reading about that :)
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12:11<andythenorth>seems python 3 doesn’t like my sorting
12:12<andythenorth>the doc generation is a place made of string and tape
12:12<andythenorth>maybe a python 3 conversion is better done later
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12:18<Wolf01> should I redeem this game on steam?
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12:26<NGC3982>I'm noticing that on one of my servers, towns seem to be much, much more hostile on terraforming and building-on-trees than on the other servers.
12:27<NGC3982>town_council_tolerance is set to the most submissive parameter. Can NewGRF change how towns react outside of this parameter?
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12:27<NGC3982>The NewGRF's i'm using are all of the Japan Set3 GRF's, FIRS and ISR station.
12:30<frosch123>houses can set how hostile their destruction is
12:30<NGC3982>But that only goes for actually destroying the house tile.
12:30<frosch123>yup, no difference otherwise
12:30<NGC3982>Not constructing rails on the trees next to it?
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12:32<NGC3982>Thank you.
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27130 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-01-31 17:45:21 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 1 changes by ww9980
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13:23<Samu>hey, is there a hotkey that increases size of loan?
13:23<@Alberth>ctrl + click ?
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13:24<@Alberth>ie max loan
13:24<@Alberth>hi hi V
13:24<V453000>hi XD
13:24<Samu>no, something like a toggle
13:24<V453000>I wuz netsplit or something :D for the past few days
13:24<Samu>press X, toggles transparency
13:25<Samu>press whatever, toggles increase/repay loan
13:26<@Alberth>I don't know of any key, but that doesn't mean a lot, I never looked for such keys either
13:26<@Alberth>you tried the key list at the wiki?
13:27<Samu> here?
13:27<Samu>let me see
13:27<frosch123>there was the idea to implement mouse wheel on statusbar-money
13:27<frosch123>but don't think that was implemented
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13:31<Samu>that would be even better
13:35<Samu>huge screenshot of a 4096x4096 map - "The screenshot will have a resolution of 262,017 x 131,159 pixels"
13:35<Samu>let's see :p
13:36<Samu>aww, it's not multi-threaded :(
13:37<@peter1138>I miss the days when systems had only 32KB RAM in total... :p
13:37<frosch123>good luck finding a software to look at it .)
13:38<NGC3982>The Windows 10 previewer can handle a 2048^2 map picture.
13:38<NGC3982>8.1 did not, for some reason.
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13:40<frosch123>oh, did they get ottd related reports?
13:41<NGC3982>One should assume. (-;
13:41<frosch123>i do not know any other software that trolls the user by allowing to create a pointsless screenshot
13:41<frosch123>a giant screenshot of 4kx4k is for sure pointless :)
13:41<NGC3982>The ultra screenshot in OpenTTD is the sword in the stone.
13:41-!-Nijn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:42<NGC3982>It opened up ways for religion and science to co-exist and flourish.
13:42*NGC3982 is bored out of his mind.
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13:43<Samu>is there a way to run openttd without windows borders but still in windowed mode?
13:44<andythenorth>can something be hot, and cold? o_O
13:44<Samu>some games can do it
13:45<andythenorth>I suspect it’s OS specific
13:45<Samu>when i maximize the window, it removes the borders
13:45<andythenorth>I have no borders
13:45<andythenorth>I have a title bar, that’s ~essential
13:45<NGC3982>The bordering is usually a product of the used Windows theme, afaik.
13:45<NGC3982>If i change from post-Aero to pre-Aero (or any other '
13:46<NGC3982>..'classic theme') i get the vertical borders.
13:47<Samu>like running a browser in fullscreenmode
13:47<Samu>press F11 on internet explorer
13:48<NGC3982>I pressed f11 in OpenTTD once.
13:48<NGC3982>That was a big mistake.
13:51<Samu>the screenshot is still being captured
13:52<@Alberth>you wanted a full screenshot :)
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13:57<Samu>and once double sized gui elements become better
13:57<Samu>I would always run OpenTTD in that mode
13:58<Samu>it would be much better to alt-tab between programs
13:59<andythenorth>a bug!
13:59<andythenorth>quick fix it!
13:59*andythenorth tries
13:59<@Alberth>alt-tab? just switch desktop :p
14:00<frosch123>switch desktops? just have multiple screens
14:00<Samu> is a big deal :p
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14:02<@Alberth>frosch123: hmm, a big rotating wheel for 6 screens? sounds like an option :p
14:02<Wolf01>I need the opposite of that software, the ability to run full screen games in windowed mode :D
14:02<frosch123>Alberth: 6 screens still work in a 3x2 grid
14:03<frosch123>8 is more complicate since they are no longer 4:3
14:03<V453000>Samu how many openttd people watch twitch
14:03<V453000>just to see someone look around the map or build slowly
14:04<frosch123>V453000: how many hearthstone people watch twitch
14:04<V453000>idk, probably a lot? :)
14:04<frosch123>just to see someone not knowing the game mechanics
14:05<NGC3982>What is Hearthstone?
14:06<V453000>blizzard card game
14:06<frosch123>a digitral trading card game
14:06<NGC3982>Well, it's a Blizzard game. People that follow Blizzard games probably follow all Blizzard games.
14:06<frosch123>it kind of proved that a computer is a better medium to play such games than hardware paper cards
14:07<frosch123>mtg players will likely turn into ttdp players or similar
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14:59<@Alberth>andy, that was quick :)
15:11<Samu>screenshot captured :+
15:11<andythenorth>too quick :P
15:11<andythenorth>I forgot to bump savegame
15:12<Samu>took 1 hour, 8 minutes
15:13<Samu>2,52 GB (2.710.958.630 bytes)
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15:20<DanMacK>Hey all
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15:26<andythenorth>@seen DanMacK
15:26<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 6 minutes and 28 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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15:46<Wolf01>uhm... the brunnel could be a nice addition to ottd
15:48<@Alberth>what is its purpose?
15:48<Wolf01>I don't know
15:48<Wolf01>maybe a bad feature
15:48<@Alberth>I mean in real life
15:49<@Alberth>seems a bit weird having a tunnel in an open field
15:49<Wolf01>maybe they built it there and then pushed it in place
15:50<@Alberth>quite possible
15:50<Wolf01>they did it so for the pedestrian passage under the railroad here
15:50<@Alberth>sorry DanMacK, I wrote busy bee, and now andy is all active with FIRS again :p
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16:28<Samu>i found a problem with exclusive transport rights and oilfields
16:28<Samu>no cargo is delivered to the oilfield station
16:28<Samu>not even to the company who bought exclusive
16:29<Samu>with a ship there
16:32<andythenorth>that sounds correct
16:35<Samu>how so?
16:35<andythenorth>if you buy exclusive, that means ‘only your stations'
16:35<andythenorth>oil rig isn’t your station
16:36<Samu>it looks like an oversight
16:36<Samu>they should be an exception
16:36<Samu>they're neutral
16:37<andythenorth>would be considered a bug by the player who bought exclusive rights?
16:38<b_jonas>Samu: build another station next to the oil field and use that maybe?
16:38<Samu>that's against server rules
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16:43<frosch123>a server that enables exclusive rights? how unusal
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16:51<NGC3982>!seen dreck
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16:56<dreck>st2 you still around here? :)
16:56<ST2>more or less ^^
16:56<ST2>hi :)
16:58<dreck>heh what doing atm? more player management or not? ;)
16:58<ST2>yeah ;)
16:58<dreck>need a whip?
16:59<ST2>I wonder that sometimes would help :D
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17:04<dreck>heh :)
17:04<dreck>you mind pm for a moment?
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17:33<dreck>just asking but is it normal for two-cargo-parts locomotive/wagon to fail at autoreplace even if the 2nd part is refit to nil/empty cargotype slot?
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18:33<dreck>hi supermop hows you?
18:34<supermop>not bad
18:37<dreck>up to anything?
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>dreck: yes, autoreplace does not know how to handle dual-cargo vehicles
18:50<supermop>are all RVs positioned on the road the same, or can one mess with sprite offsets to change it
18:50<dreck>suspected as much, weird how planes work just fine etca but I guess thats a completely different world code-wise :)
18:50<supermop>so that a tram keeps slightly more to the center than a bus
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>planes are a special case
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18:51<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i don't see how that would help anybody, but it should be possible
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18:56<supermop>trese tram tracks im drawing.. look odd if the loading gauge is too wide so drawing them close together
18:57<supermop>but i can imagine buses driving that close looking claustrophobic
18:58<supermop>even though a tram is wider than a car, road lanes are often built wider than the loading guage of straight tram track on higher speed streets and roads
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18:59<dreck>supermop theres one thing to keep in mind, tram tracks are placed bit out of alignment on purpose due to the nature of how much more slippery car tires get if sitting directly on top of standard gauge ones
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18:59<dreck>but for metre or other obvious different gauges it wouldn't matter as so much
19:00<dreck>just a bit real-life tidbit...the small pixel scale for in-game roads makes this a bit moot perhaps
19:00<NGC3982>Dreck: There you are.
19:02<dreck>supermop actually I've been trying to draw some simple little boxes to go on top of the existing generic tramtrk.grf thing inbetween other projects just for fun
19:09<supermop>these built in material textures are worthless
19:09<dreck>'material textures'?
19:10<supermop>in rhinoceros - the ones that come with the flamingo rendering plug in circa 2010
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19:17<supermop>too bad its rainy today or i'd just photograph the stones out in front on my house
19:18<supermop>no one on google image search has taken a photo of this type of pavement from straight above
19:19<dreck>I see
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: never expect that you control all vehicles that will go over your tram track. it should look proper with any tram set that exists
19:26<supermop>for now ill take what i can find and skew/correct in photoshop
19:27<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i am now thinking so too - especially because if one places road-tram-road instead of tramway on road, narrow tramway will give too much extra space between the roadways
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19:28<supermop>so i guess tram rail should be centered within each traffic lane
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19:44*dreck is wondering if railroads only used 3-axle chassis to get higher speed and/or smoother ride out of what would be otherwise just the same chassis used by conventional 2-axle setup
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20:41<dreck>hmm seem theres nothing online about these .. yet we had eg these
20:42<dreck>oh well I'll just put it down to real railroad nitpicks!
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20:53*dreck has the boat list full and rv still in limbo heh
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23:13<Flygon_>supermop: I'm presuming you'll implement dooring cyclists as a game mechanism
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23:26<supermop>Flygon: that's why the road tiles don't have bike lanes and parking coexisting
23:27<supermop>I think I will also cheat by drawing the U loop in tram tracks as a Y shaped shunt
23:28<Supercheese>Maybe I should add bicyclists to Eyecandy RVs
23:28<Supercheese>1x zoom they'd be horribly tiny though
23:28<supermop>will look bad when trams use it but the rest of the time will look like a real line terminus
23:28<supermop>toyota used to use bike couriers for just in time deliveries to factories in the 50s and 60s
23:29<supermop>i think there is use for some special heavy trucks
23:30<supermop>like garbage trucks that refit only to recyclables, cement mixers that refit only to bdmt
23:31<supermop>a combine that refits to farm supplies and is the farm supply
23:31<supermop>and is invisible when empty
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23:43<supermop>hows it going Supercheese ?
23:45<Supercheese>Muy bien, gracias
23:45<Supercheese>Hmm, vehicles that are invisible when empty eh?
23:46<Supercheese>might be a bit dodgy if they get stuck somewhere
23:46<Supercheese>"Vehicle X is lost" but vehicle X is also invisible...
23:48<supermop>hmm shown as a regular car when empty as the driver drives back to the john deere dealer to buy another combine?
23:49<Supercheese>I guess you could just find vehicle X in the vehicle list and click it that way, even if invisible
23:49<Supercheese>one-way invisibility isn't a bad idea really
23:50*Supercheese wonders if the various combines from ISR etc. are drawn in 8-directions
23:50<supermop>same for heqs mining trucks as eng sup
23:50<Supercheese>I doubt it, though; stations are only 4-direction
23:51<supermop>want to model tram track frogs as i feel they will look good at 4x zoom
23:51<supermop>but cant recall what they look like
23:51<supermop>tramway stretch in front of my house has no junctions
23:58<supermop>just sort of made it up
---Logclosed Sun Feb 01 00:00:53 2015