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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-01

---Logopened Sun Feb 01 00:00:53 2015
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00:18<Supercheese>maybe use Google Streetview?
00:18<Supercheese>they should have pretty much every major street mapped
00:19<Supercheese>admittedly the images are low quality, but it's something
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00:30<supermop>yeah i cant get in far enough to see frogs
00:31<supermop>here is what I've tried for now:
00:32<supermop>i just realized that the crossing i modelled can never exist in game
00:32<supermop>as all X tram junctions are grand unions
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00:38<supermop>and the center will be too littered with curves for any of that stuff shown to be used
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01:17<supermop>should a tram making a right turn cut inside of the centerpoint of a tile or go slightly ouside of it
01:18<supermop>it seems like they go outside of the centerpoint in game
01:19<supermop>but i can reduce number of weird frogs to draw if opposite outside curved tracks do not cross
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04:06<Wolf01>hi hi
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04:33<andythenorth>@seen danmack
04:33<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
04:40<@Alberth>hi hi
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04:50<andythenorth>“Create group from shared orders list”
04:50<andythenorth>would be useful
04:50<Wolf01>indeed, the other way too, share orders from a group
04:50<andythenorth>instead of ‘scroll through 500 trains in 2x UI, find one, drag it (with laggy cursor) to a new group, then find ‘add shared vehicles’
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04:51<andythenorth>I should turn off ‘while paused’ restrictions
04:51<andythenorth>then I could pause so that the UI is usable
04:52*andythenorth does that
04:52<andythenorth>workarounds and hax
04:52<andythenorth>using the system cursor is out of the question?
04:52<andythenorth>the laggy cursor is really painful to play with
04:56<V453000>yeah train management utilities are always a good feature >]
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05:10<V453000>big release there andy :P
05:13<andythenorth>big boo
05:13<andythenorth>made a mistake
05:13<V453000>happens :)
05:14<Wolf01>did you make "consist management" instead of "create group from shared order"?
05:14<andythenorth>no :(
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05:15<andythenorth>wish someone would
05:15*andythenorth is making trains longer, manually
05:15<andythenorth>change one, scrap rest in the order group, clone the first one n times
05:15<andythenorth>wastes some money and cargo
05:16<Wolf01>eh, reminds me of cabeese when replacing steam wengines with new diesel/electric ones
05:17*andythenorth kicking goals
05:17<andythenorth>Busy Bee goals
05:17<andythenorth>by accident :)
05:34<andythenorth>yay, V453000 commented my thread \o/
05:35<andythenorth>we should start a circle-jerk agreement
05:35<andythenorth>releasing weeks of work to “….” response is not motivating :P
05:35<andythenorth>or only receiving random wtf feature requests in response
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05:48<@Alberth>let's hire sunshare for the latter :p
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05:53<supermop>V453000: will be happy to hear ive been spending hours today modelling frogs
05:54<supermop>all sorts of boolean operations on weird solids in rhino for grand union frogs
05:54<supermop>i also fear lack of cars will look worse
05:55<supermop>also the tracks are reflective at the moment but there is nothing for them to reflect. Do you use a skybox/dome?
06:00<andythenorth>shhh…he’s playing FIRS, leave him alone :D
06:19<@Alberth>"... As you probably well know, OpenTTD scale is more uniform than anything. ..." :D good one V
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06:34<@Alberth>hi hi
06:40<frosch123>supermop: tell me more about that "grand union frogs" :)
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06:52<frosch123>ah, that kind of frogs :) (found the forum topic)
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07:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27131 /trunk/src (misc_gui.cpp widgets/dropdown.cpp) (2015-02-01 12:23:39 UTC)
07:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Dropdown- and tooltip-windows should not steal the focus.
07:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27132 trunk/src/map_type.h (2015-02-01 12:25:51 UTC)
07:25<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add an assertion about the size of the Tile struct to ensure alignment assumptions.
07:31<frosch123> <- does that look ok?
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07:36<@Alberth>quite subtle :)
07:37<@Alberth>I wonder if it should be a developer setting
07:37<frosch123>problem is that ottd does not just send hotkeys to the focussed window, but traverses the whole window stack until one wants it
07:38<frosch123>so, if the focussed window does not handle it, a "random" other window may handle it
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07:39<Eddi|zuHause>then only actual input boxes should show focus
07:39<@Alberth>and this highlight helps understand which window gets the first chance?
07:39<@Alberth>not sure how useful that is, unless you know which window eats which keys
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07:41<frosch123>hmm, aw, it's even more weird
07:41<frosch123>there are two methods to describe the focus of a window, and they are not always in sync :/
07:41<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: It's deeper than that, if you reposition a window, it raises to the top of the stack
07:41<frosch123>ok, screw it, revert :)
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07:42<frosch123>i assume ottd actually had a proper focus handling meanwhile, but it does not
07:42<@Alberth>ha :)
07:43<V453000>heyooo :)
07:44<V453000>supermop: some sort of sky is good to have imo :)
07:45<V453000>especially since you already do render in orthographic, which makes a lot of reflections/refractions seriously unnatural and fucked up
07:45<V453000>so giving things some more stuff to reflect is especially nice
07:47<frosch123>Alberth: it's like the catchment area. we cannot add a useful visualisation for them because that would only show how inconsistent/broken the underlying game logic is. so we keep on obfuscating by not displaying it properly :)
07:47<V453000>XD ^
07:48<@Alberth>yay for hysteric raisins :)
08:07<supermop>just tried tapering a surface of this frog and i think it is going to melt my cpu
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08:21<andythenorth>Everything must be consistent!
08:22<andythenorth>How can we even play this game with its broken mechanics!
08:22<andythenorth>Where is your plan? Your flowchart? Your scheduled? project
08:22*andythenorth forgets how to words
08:24<@Alberth>let's just redefine logic ?
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08:26<andythenorth>no 123?
08:27<@Alberth>this is the first one
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08:34<andythenorth>can I haz minimise (windowshade) on station construction window?
08:34<andythenorth>in 2x, I have to move it every time to build stations
08:35<frosch>you can store the size
08:35<andythenorth>I know
08:35<andythenorth>but I am using 2x on a 13” screen
08:36<andythenorth>to see the station tiles in the list, I need it fairly large
08:36<andythenorth>but then it fills most of thw viewport
08:36<andythenorth>the *
08:36<andythenorth>also, I actually have it minimum size
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09:00<andythenorth>5 year old is complaining that ottd is ‘ridiculously slow’ :P
09:00<andythenorth>on map scroll and ffwd
09:01<andythenorth>his benchmark is my wife’s mac, which is much older i5
09:03<supermop>more frogs tomorrow
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10:31<andythenorth>cat is where?
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause>there and there
11:00<__ln__>it's in /bin
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>not here
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12:13<frosch>i keep on wondering what grfs will get the name ASDF, YOLO, SWAG, ...
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>Game Of Thrones Deaths?
12:15<V453000>I am actually considering NUTS2 ... idk name for it yet :)
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>i've never ever heard "swag" in a non-ironic way
12:16<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: FIRS obiwan on UK keyboard
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>usually, at least for me, these kinds of obiwans are limited to one hand
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>more likely the right hand
12:17<V453000>ARTS Realistic Train Set
12:18<frosch>does it include all bad features?
12:18<V453000>FARTS Absolutelyb
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>"ARTS" was some ancient linux framework for sound, before ALSA came along
12:18<frosch> <- those F-ARTS ?
12:19<V453000>I am thinking about trying to make some nicer scaled vehicles, everything to be longer
12:19<V453000>the 8/8 looks dumbly short whem rendered
12:20<andythenorth>chibi innit
12:20<frosch>V453000: but you cannot make them higher
12:20<V453000>if everything would be 2x8/8 it would look more natural / less shortened
12:20<frosch>so, did you try making them narrower?
12:21<V453000>height is fine
12:21<V453000>narrow is fine too
12:21<V453000>also big is nice :)
12:22<V453000>the fat x tall is good ratio now but could use more length
12:23<V453000>and I would keep them articulated, no stupid 16/8 sprites
12:24<V453000>more bending but mehhh
12:24<frosch>WETRAIL bends anyway :)
12:25<V453000>only downside is no double head :(
12:26<V453000>i guess feature request for dual head articulation is nono?
12:26<frosch>pretty much :)
12:27<frosch>you can let the user build two, and make them display alternating directions
12:27<V453000>thought so
12:27<frosch>will also allow users to build them in non-fixed positions :p
12:27<V453000>yeah I do that with chameleon
12:27<frosch>you know, that thing people complain about :)
12:28<V453000>more reasonable request: dragging articulated and dual head tra
12:28<V453000>ins for any part
12:29<V453000>now you have to drag the first part
12:29<frosch>hmm, i thought that was implemented long ago
12:29<V453000>possible to aííow dragging any part?
12:29<frosch>it will only show the first part at the mouse cursor, but i think you can click any part
12:30<V453000>hm it probably works with articulated
12:30<frosch>yeah, the rear-head auto-moves
12:30<frosch>you cannot position it individually
12:30<V453000>will do some testing :)
12:31<V453000>sure but if you drag rear head it throws error :(
13:01<V453000>DOOM Overly Obese Machinery
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13:26<andythenorth>dragging articulated trains is a PITA
13:26<andythenorth>Iron Horse is horrible
13:26<andythenorth>you have to drag the head part, which is often 1/8
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>just make the depot view a full length sprite
13:26<V453000>in which regard is that bad andy?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>it works fine in CETS
13:27<V453000>as in, once can always make the first part have a sprite_in_depot == whatever
13:29<V453000>is that a viable solution?
13:30<V453000>e.g. I have 3 articulated parts, if I make the sprite in depot for the first one big, will it do good things?
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>there are two things that are affected here: the sprite on the curser, and the gap that it makes in the chain that you drag it to
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>the first one you can influence with "depot sprite", the second you can't
13:31<V453000>well I guess the second one isnt too problematic though?
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
13:32<V453000>you dont think it is problematic or vice versa? :D
13:33<frosch>the only problem is that you are talking with people who do not play the game :p
13:33<frosch>the second thing was fixed 2 years ago
13:34<V453000>frosch the problem is I dont play either anymore
13:35<frosch>i read on reddit that ottd is the game starcraft2 players retire to
13:35<frosch>what game do ottd players retire to?
13:35<V453000>lol what
13:35<V453000>idk but I think ottd players retire to newgrfs
13:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how are you solving it? Adjusting vehicle length when in depot?
13:35<V453000>or die peacefully
13:36<V453000>and what andy said :)
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, just change the sprite (extra_callbac_info1)
13:36<frosch> <- V453000 :)
13:37<V453000>well he has a point
13:37<frosch>andythenorth: you can display different sprites in viewports, depot, vehicle lists, newspaper, ...
13:37<andythenorth>how does that affect the drag target?
13:37<V453000>yeah, thats why I say I will replace the depot sprite too :) sounds like a good solution
13:37<V453000>and if Eddi does it then it cant possibly be wrong
13:37<andythenorth>do I need to dibble the x and yextent or something?
13:38*andythenorth experiments
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i disagree with you.
13:39<andythenorth>yeah, ok, so I need multiple depot sprites do I need
13:39<andythenorth>eh makes no sense?
13:39<andythenorth>are there multiple depot sprites?
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>just a matter of templates
13:40<andythenorth>nah, there’s multiple behaviours
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>use more words
13:40<andythenorth>try it
13:40<V453000>andy definitely forgot how to words
13:40<andythenorth>easier to see than word
13:40<frosch>andythenorth: make only the first vehicle in the chain have a sprite in depot view, make the other ones transparent
13:41<frosch>similar to purchase list graphics, where also a single sprite shows the whole vehicle
13:41<andythenorth>¿you mean somewhat like?
13:41<V453000>k so I hereby announce DOOM Obscenely Oversized Machinerz
13:41<V453000>another retarded train set from V the retard
13:42<frosch>andythenorth: so you are already using it?
13:42<V453000>holyshitwhatthefuck andy, but yes something similar :D if not exactly the same, cant reed that
13:42<andythenorth>try handling cargo with it :P
13:42<andythenorth>on partial load states
13:42<andythenorth>with random
13:42<V453000>ah special cases in depot
13:43<andythenorth>and appearing / disappearing cabs
13:43<V453000>it isnt much extra work if you make the project ready for it
13:43<andythenorth>anyway, which case do I need to check for ‘vehicle in depot, but not in a valid consist?’
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: random is easy, just make the other vehicle parts choose randomness of the first part
13:44<V453000>assembling a full-sprite can be completely automatic with cut from render
13:44<andythenorth>yes yes, we’re all very smart :)
13:44<andythenorth>but what case do I need for ‘vehicle is in a consist with no engine?’
13:44<andythenorth>then I can just add that to the existing wtf smart stuff :P
13:44<V453000>why would you need a case for that?
13:47<andythenorth>because you have to drag wagons in depot sometimes
13:48<andythenorth>for example, when doing tedious manual consist management :P
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see the problem
13:48<V453000>sure but that can be handled the same way with engines and without?
13:50<andythenorth>yes but it isn’t currently in Iron Horse
13:50<andythenorth>so I need to fix that
13:50<andythenorth>the drag behaviour is inconsistent
13:50<andythenorth>bad for players
13:50<andythenorth>I watched my 5 y/old trying to figure it out earlier, it’s really odd
13:51<andythenorth>try it :)
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13:51<V453000>you have a good test slave andy :D
13:54<andythenorth>it’s easier watching someone else use it
13:54<andythenorth>there’s loads of UI problems that I ignore
13:54<andythenorth>but explaining them to a 5 year old shows how dumb they are :)
13:54<andythenorth>“loads” “some” /s
13:55<V453000>yeah :)
13:55<V453000>if 5yo can use it, it is good and intuitive :)
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13:58*andythenorth must driving be
13:58<andythenorth>I think that depot handling might be….a bug :o
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14:09<andythenorth>try it
14:09<andythenorth>put an Iron Horse wagon on a depot row with no engine
14:09<andythenorth>try drag
14:10<andythenorth>compare it to same wagon attached to an engine
14:10<andythenorth>dragging RHS of the sprite
14:11<frosch>nothing weird here
14:12<andythenorth>taking screenshot of drag working is hard :P
14:13<andythenorth>maybe it’s an OS X bug
14:14<andythenorth>I have to drive now, maybe I can find some screen recording tool later
14:14<andythenorth>doesn’t really show the effect
14:14<andythenorth>video better
14:14<andythenorth>if I can figure it out
14:19<andythenorth>H264 .mov, should work for most of you
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14:22<frosch>does not happen for me
14:22<frosch>no idea what could be osx specific
14:22<frosch>oh, wait, gui zoom
14:22<V453000>I see
14:22<V453000>inconsistent wtf :)
14:23<frosch>yeah, it's a gui zoom bug
14:23<frosch>works fine with 1x zoom
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14:25<V453000>so what is bugged with the extra zoom gui frosch?
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14:28<frosch>V453000: many things
14:32<frosch>bah, someone was too lazy to write ZOOM_LVL_BASE and wrote 4 everywhere
14:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27133 trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp (2015-02-01 19:40:04 UTC)
14:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Dragging of free wagons in depot failed with GUI zoom.
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15:30<frosch> <- deduplicate a ton of characters :)
15:31<frosch>i am not sure about the naming of UnScaleGUI and ScaleGUITrad
15:31<frosch>the "UnScale" vs "Scale" looks weird
15:32<frosch>maybe drop the "Scale" entirely and do "ZoomGUI" and "ZoomGUITrad" ?
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15:33<frosch>andythenorth: pull! better?
15:35<@Alberth>tbh I never understood Scale and UnScale
15:36<@Alberth>(Unscale looks better to me)
15:37<@Alberth>src/zoom_func.h constants in the doxymentation need a # prefix
15:38<andythenorth>frosch: fixed - tested at 2x :)
15:38<andythenorth>much better :)
15:39<andythenorth>UI niggles are minor, but really annoying
15:39<@Alberth>but looking at the zoom functions, both functions seem to move in the opposite directions, so opposite names can be defended
15:41<@Alberth>wooow lots of changes :)
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15:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27134 /trunk/src (25 files) (2015-02-01 20:54:24 UTC)
15:54<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify GUI scaling by adding UnScaleGUI() and ScaleGUITrad().
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16:19<DanMacK>Hey all
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17:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27135 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2015-02-01 22:04:50 UTC)
17:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Misalignment in generate world window in case of small fonts.
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 02 00:00:54 2015