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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-06

---Logopened Fri Feb 06 00:00:00 2015
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07:27<underground>hi all
07:27<underground>i,m now in 2217 and how to make trains
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07:43<@planetmaker>underground, if you do not use any NewGRFs, then the only trains available are maglev
07:43<@planetmaker>underground, click and hold the rail icon in the main toolbar and select the maglev type of rails
07:45<@planetmaker>*available at that date, of course. Earlier there are normal trains
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07:57<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
07:57<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
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07:59<samu>hi
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09:26<@Belugas>hello
09:28<@Belugas>lol!! I though for a second that openttd had the option to view trains from underground perspective
09:28<@Belugas>i guess it's friday effect hahahaha!!!
09:36<DanMacK>It would be nice... lol
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10:39<samu>centrifugal cpu cooling
10:40<samu>the cpu is in the blades
10:40<samu>keks
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11:22<samu>static CommandCost CheckNewIndustry_OilRig ( TileIndex tile )
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11:25<samu>ah, i found it
11:25<samu>http://docs.openttd.org/industry__cmd_8cpp_source.html#l01220
11:26<samu>how do I implement that part from line 1220 to line 1227 into my nml?
11:29<@Alberth>I wonder why it compares with map edge distance with _settings_game.game_creation.oil_refinery_limit
11:30<@Alberth>isn't there a "stay within X tiles" from the map edge?
11:31<@Alberth>that's what it does, tohgether with checking for flat tiles
11:32<samu>maybe the oil rig is built like the oil refinery
11:32<samu>it actually seems to be that way
11:32<samu>near map edge
11:33<samu>but you say they share the same setting?
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11:35<@Alberth>if (TileHeight(tile) == 0 && DistanceFromEdge(TILE_ADDXY(tile, 1, 1)) < _settings_game.game_creation.oil_refinery_limit) return CommandCost(); <-- if 'tile' is at water level, and distance from edge (tile + (1,1)) < oil_refinery_distance then OK
11:38<@Alberth>in other words, add the oil refinery limit, I think
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11:52<samu>i can't find in the wiki
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11:55<samu>i'm always lost in trying to search
11:56<@Alberth>if you weren't you wouldn't have to search :)
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12:09<samu>ah, i found it again, http://docs.openttd.org/build__industry_8h_source.html#l00250
12:10<samu>if i want to replace that layout with mine, how exactly must I name the layout?
12:11<samu>what would I need to make the game think that everything is equal except that part?
12:13<samu>because, when the game loads my grf, it seems that it forgot something along the way, like the placement check
12:13<samu>sorry for my continuous repetition, I can't figure it out
12:32<samu>can i edit this file directly? http://docs.openttd.org/build__industry_8h_source.html#l00250
12:32<samu>it would be much straight forward than doing a .grf
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12:56<samu>hey
12:58<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21714
12:58<samu>that's an edited version of http://docs.openttd.org/build__industry_8h_source.html#l00250
12:59<samu>now what?
13:00<@Alberth>.grf doesn't use c++ or .h files
13:00<@Alberth>so I don't know what you're doing, but it's not making a .grf
13:01<samu>i've edited oil rig layout on that file
13:01<samu>corrected yesterday's issue that frosch found
13:02<samu>and also added more water around
13:02<samu>but I dunno how to make my grf work
13:03<samu>so i decided to edit that file instead
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13:17<samu>how can i test it ?
13:18<@Alberth>download the openttd source code, edit the file, compile the sources, play the game?
13:19<@Alberth>not sure if that counts as testing though
13:19<samu>compile? how do i do that
13:19<samu>i downloaded the source files and edited it already
13:19<samu>don't know about the compile part
13:20<@Alberth>ah, and you have windows?
13:20<samu>yes
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13:20<@Alberth>lots of pain then http://wiki.openttd.org/Category:Compiling_OpenTTD
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13:24<samu>omg
13:27<@Alberth>yep, windows isn't really designed for development
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13:30<samu>the guide is outdated
13:31<samu>there's a visual studio 2013
13:31<@Alberth>make a new guide
13:31<samu>i dont even know how to begin
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13:40<samu>there's so many visual studios i dont know what to pick
13:40<+glx>just use express desktop
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13:43<samu>aha requires 6 GB...
13:43<samu>:(
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13:48<samu>nice installer
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13:55<andythenorth>o/
13:58<samu>ok it is installed
14:02<@Alberth>o/
14:03<samu>what do I do after
14:04<@Alberth>use it to compile openttd :)
14:04<samu>hmm :(
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14:14<samu>i need to install tortoise svn?
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14:23<samu>oh, it is downloading stuff
14:23<samu>from svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
14:26<andythenorth>where is cat?
14:26<V453000>anus
14:27<andythenorth>unfortunate
14:28*andythenorth has got steam working
14:28<andythenorth>time for games
14:30<samu>wiki says Go to Compile -> Configuration Administrator and select Configuration: Release.
14:30<samu>there is no Compile menu
14:30<samu>where do I go?
14:31<samu>Is it Build -> Configuration Manager?
14:34<samu>http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2012
14:34<samu>help
14:34<samu>at 2.6
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14:35<Wolf01>hello
14:36<@Alberth>andythenorth: iron horse 1.4 oil wagon unloads instantly
14:36<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
14:36<samu>I'm at this point _> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pNYcqqOLIc3odY6FiGZd8wiaZp_2nIgG3My8PFk6QLa60ol5CLeh7h_8zy9Z5ZiQ9ibG5qzici4ZBlqMRROz-NPC4Be4o9x1SiAOyFqWbExISxrK05Hh27ja9v4TeljwWtrU8mpFKTlvZjANR47e8GQ/visual%20studio.png?psid=1
14:36<samu>but I don't understand step 2.6
14:37<@Alberth>maybe I should upgrade to 1.5?
14:37<samu>2.6 Right click on the openttd project in Solution Explorer and select Properties.
14:37<samu>i can't right click any openttd
14:37<samu>nothing comes up
14:37<@Alberth>I hope you're not talking to me samu :)
14:38<samu>to whoever could help
14:38<@Alberth>ok, that's definitely not me then
14:39<andythenorth>I need a much better graphics card
14:39<andythenorth>much much better
14:40<andythenorth>Alberth: which generation tank wagon?
14:41<@Alberth>it's 1938
14:41<andythenorth>ok
14:42<@Alberth>that's sufficient?
14:42<andythenorth>perfectly
14:42<andythenorth>dunno what the bug is yet
14:43<andythenorth>but Road Hog had completely borked loading speed, same code running in IH
14:43<andythenorth>my graphics card is ranked #159 in benchmarks
14:43<andythenorth>the benchmark is arbitrary but the high end performers are scoring 15x higher
14:44*andythenorth knows nothing about GPUs
14:46<andythenorth>Alberth: tank wagon claims to unload in 120 ticks
14:46<andythenorth>according to my formula
14:46<andythenorth>result is different?
14:47<@Alberth>in 1.5 you "- balanced loading speeds for all vehicles
14:47<@Alberth>- tank, hopper, covered hopper and intermodal cars load twice as fast as other types"
14:47<@Alberth>maybe that fixed it?
14:48<andythenorth>ah, I didn’t consider which tag :P
14:48<andythenorth>I just looked at recent revs :P
14:48<andythenorth>here we go https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/d8659bdc163d
14:48<@Alberth>that usually works :p
14:48<andythenorth>that is post 1.4.0
14:49<@Alberth>let me try 1.5
14:53<@Alberth>1.5 works, in about 4 times (1005 -> 70% -> 40% -> 10% -> 0%)
14:53<samu>build succeded, but it gets tons of warnings, where is it?
14:54<andythenorth>Alberth: that sounds correct
14:54<@Alberth>ok, you fixed it thus :)
14:54<@Alberth>sorry I disturbed you from your game
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14:54<andythenorth>nah, I gave up
14:55<andythenorth>I am trying Euro Truck Simulator 2
14:55<andythenorth>version 1 was low-poly, with nice textures, but very undetailed models
14:55<+glx>say bye to your free time
14:55<andythenorth>and was smooth
14:55<andythenorth>v2 is detailed, but jaggy and laggy
14:55<andythenorth>my laptop is way too old to play it
14:55<samu>lagtop
14:56<@Alberth>ah, let me know what happens on the long straight parts of the road :)
14:56<andythenorth>indeed lagtop
14:56<samu>I created the Openttd.exe file, but it gets an error when starting
14:56*andythenorth is not used to things that run slowly on a laptop
14:56<andythenorth>kind of forgot about that years ago
14:56<samu>no available language pack
14:56<@Alberth>nml?
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14:57<samu>must i put this file somewhere else?
14:57<andythenorth>probably if I had a really big desktop CPU nml might go faster
14:57<andythenorth>but nearly everything I use is either fast, or is single-threaded python
14:57<andythenorth>and most desktop CPUs seem to be adding thread units, rather than single-unit throughput
14:58<andythenorth>although I long-ago stopped understanding CPUs
14:58<+glx>samu: just press run in VS
14:58<@Alberth>samu: you need to build more than just openttd, langpack is generated with strgen
14:58<+glx>Alberth: no it's ok, but you can't run openttd from the build dir
14:59<@Alberth>:O ok
15:00<@Alberth>andythenorth: yes you need a cpu with high performance in a single core
15:00<+glx>unless you let the IDE do it
15:00<andythenorth>I’ve no idea how to bench single core performance :)
15:00<andythenorth>or how to trick my CPU into Turbo Boost or anything else :)
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15:01<samu>OpenTTD r27136M?
15:02<samu>it started
15:03<samu>base music set, 22 corrupted files?
15:04<@Alberth>I wonder how you have r27136 while the #openttd.dev topic is still at r27130 :)
15:05<andythenorth>dev is behind
15:05<andythenorth>vcs rev is 27136 :)
15:05<@Alberth>quite likely
15:07<samu>music doesn't play
15:07<samu>sounds play
15:07<samu>graphics get some error popup at start up
15:08<samu>music says 22 corrupted files
15:08<samu>nevermind, i had the player stoped
15:08<samu>it is playing music nopw
15:09<samu>but original_windows music set gets 22 corrupted files
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15:10<samu>the current base graphics set is missing some sprites
15:10<samu>should i ignore that for now?
15:11<@Alberth>depends on how old your base set is, but mostly, it's harmless
15:12<samu>it only produced an .exe file
15:12<samu>where was the rest?
15:12<samu>I am so confused
15:12<@Alberth>what rest?
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15:31<samu>fast forward is slow
15:32<samu>is that normal?
15:33<+glx>debug or release build ?
15:33<@Alberth>depends on how fast your computer is, and how large and busy the map is
15:33<samu>rlease
15:33<samu>i dunno
15:35<andythenorth>fast forward is very slow for me on a self-compiled build
15:35<andythenorth>it’s better on the releases
15:35<andythenorth>FYI
15:35<samu>ok
15:36<samu>oh, SimpleAI is playing
15:36<samu>so this uses my preferences, I see
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15:39<samu>First-chance exception at 0x000000014013F2B6 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000002913000.
15:40<samu>gah
15:40<samu>i was turning off full animation
15:40<samu>i have to click Break?
15:49<samu>first time I compiled anything
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16:07<andythenorth>opening the train list causes the game to chug rather a lot
16:07<@Alberth>you never used nmlc ?
16:08<@Alberth>too many trains perhaps in the game, andy :)
16:08<andythenorth>wondering if it’s 2x zoom
16:08<andythenorth>or if the blitter is increasingly rubbish on OS X
16:08<andythenorth>performance has been heading downhill with recent changes to how I compile
16:09<@Alberth>what happens if you reduce zoom to 1x ?
16:09<@Alberth>not sure if you need to restart the program
16:11<@Alberth>reduce as in changing the setting for max zoom
16:11<@Alberth>as the game keeps tracking sprites you might need
16:12<andythenorth>so subjective it’s hard to tell
16:12<andythenorth>can’t reliably trigger the chugging
16:13<andythenorth>might be the train window, might be having a vehicle window open, might be unrelated
16:13<andythenorth>:P
16:13<@Alberth>so caching is into play somewhere perhaps
16:13<@Alberth>pretty much impossible to diagnose
16:13<andythenorth>having a vehicle window open makes ffwd measurable slower I think
16:13<andythenorth>yeah
16:14<andythenorth>I should try 1.5.0 binary
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>there was something like "make run_prof"
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>which can show you which areas of the code are run excessively often
16:20<samu>it works:)
16:21<samu>will you take that into consideration?
16:21<samu>this - https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21714
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16:23<frosch123>is that the same thing i did 30 minutes ago?
16:24<samu>what did u do?
16:24<frosch123>http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd.dev&date=1423180800#1423255469
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16:26<samu>oh
16:26<samu>nearly
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16:28<samu>mine looks like this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqkqld7wy?/pqkqld7wy
16:28<samu>yours looks like that of the wiki
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16:28<samu>and the one in svn looks shifted
16:29<samu>i did the test in TTDLX
16:29<samu>it builds like in the wiki
16:29<samu>did you see the screenshot?
16:30<frosch123>andythenorth: didn't you have some industry distance patch 4 years ago?
16:31<andythenorth>urgh yes
16:31<andythenorth>it never worked right
16:31<andythenorth>why? :)
16:31<samu>ttdlx -> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2p9f-Z-hOaSWh8kAnng5Cm-KlIklDONHv9W-FAjG74gf9lk5yMxY0jRn74k_AA5PlOmvvswDLhLhArfux_DXqQGAT-7l2XQv0tj19aqqInSXVF-uB-IO5f4FCRSg5y4qzAPD_6bs0UEywTUjZJcq0T6A/SCR2-PCX.png?psid=1
16:31<frosch123>andythenorth: exactly, i also remember that there was something bad feature about it
16:32<andythenorth>I think the bad feature was my code
16:32<andythenorth>FIRS solved it differently with circular (1 loop) tile check instead
16:33<@peter1138>TTD
16:34<@peter1138>Why do people think Deluxe should be abbreviated to DLX, when Transport Tycoon is TT?
16:34<samu>it installs in folder ttdlx
16:34<samu>well
16:34<samu>c:\MPS\TTDLX
16:36<andythenorth>eh no steel cars in Iron Horse
16:36*andythenorth wants torpedos
16:37<@peter1138>Do I want a keyboard with blue/red backlighting?
16:37<@Alberth>melt the engine!
16:37<andythenorth>peter1138: yes
16:37<frosch123>you never want anything with lights that does not need lights
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>why do people want keyboards with backlighting? what happened to typing blind?
16:37<b_jonas>peter1138: no
16:37<b_jonas>Eddi|zuHause: exactly
16:37<frosch123>it can only be annoyingly bright
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, my power on led is annoyingly bright
16:38<frosch123>i cut the wires to the power led :)
16:38<@Alberth>a small piece of black tape would solve that
16:39<frosch123>the best feature of my displays is a setting to configure the led as "off" when powered on :)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: there's a plug you can pull, you know :p
16:39<@peter1138>Heh, the LEDs on my switch are a bit bright :(
16:39<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: ok, yes, technically i pulled the plug :) but didn't sound as fancy
16:44<samu>will ships be blocked in future oil rigs?
16:44<samu>what will you decide?
16:45<samu>im curious
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16:46<@Alberth>frosch is changing the program to the documented behaviour at the newgrf wiki
16:47<samu>oh, so they will be blocked :(
16:47<samu>why so mean to ships
16:47<@Alberth>it's what the original program did
16:49<@Alberth>openttd cannot be changed, as it means old games may break
16:49<@Alberth>so to change behavior, you have to use a newgrf or a script
16:49<frosch123>technically that's not the case here :)
16:50<frosch123>anyway, it's not specific to oilrigs
16:50<frosch123>same happens for other industries
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>but other industries don't have builtin docks
16:51<Wolf01><frosch123> the best feature of my displays is a setting to configure the led as "off" when powered on :) <- my display already does that, too bad the led is on when the display is powered off... not so nice when you have it in your bedroom
16:52<frosch123>i have a plug with switch, that powers everything hard
16:52<frosch123>*depowers
16:52<andythenorth>torpedo car needs some “tweaks” https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7083/torpedo.png
16:52<Wolf01>I had to do that too
16:53<Wolf01>wii u + display + xbox controller charger it's a lot of light
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: make the middle part longer?
16:53<andythenorth>yeah
16:53<andythenorth>needs to be 8/8
16:53<andythenorth>and not just a copy-paste of a tank wagon :P
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>looks like a tank wagon, at this scale
16:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27137 trunk/src/table/build_industry.h (2015-02-06 21:54:19 UTC)
16:54<andythenorth>it is literally a tank wagon and two narrow gauge flat wagons
16:54<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r0): Oilrig empty-tile checks were incorrect due to wrong TileIndexDiff->TileIndexDiffC conversion.
16:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27138 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2015-02-06 21:56:50 UTC)
16:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [NewGRF] Negative positions in industry layouts were interpreted incorrectly; however since the wrong behaviour is saner, define as the correct behaviour for GRFv8.
16:59<samu>oh
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17:13<samu>oh noe
17:14<samu>well then i have to fix my .grf
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17:17<Eddi|zuHause>nothing has changed for your GRF
17:32<samu>it misbehaves
17:32<supermop>yo
17:33<samu>zuHause, can you help ?
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17:35<samu>when can i download this new revision version?
17:36<samu>it's not here yet http://www.openttd.org/en/
17:37<+glx>tomorrow
17:37<Supercheese>compile farm probably has not built it yet
17:37<Supercheese>you either must wait for the nightly build or compile it yourself
17:37<samu>i wait
17:38<samu>may i uninstall all this now?
17:38<samu>tortoise? microsoft visual?
17:39<Supercheese>Visual Studio compiles it fine
17:39<+glx>(well compile farm built it, but just to check it's ok)
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18:07<samu>i am getting 3 warnings
18:07<samu>warning C4267
18:08<samu>Warning 1 warning C4267: 'initializing' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\smallmap_gui.cpp 1103 1 openttd
18:09<samu>Warning 2 warning C4267: '=' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uInt', possible loss of data C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\textfile_gui.cpp 230 1 openttd
18:09<samu>Warning 3 warning C4267: '-=' : conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint32', possible loss of data C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\terraform_cmd.cpp 406 1 openttd
18:15<+glx>you can ignore them
18:16<samu>i can't do this, i wait for tomorrow
18:16<samu>uninstalling
18:27<+glx>warnings are not important
18:27<Wolf01>'night
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18:41<samu>well, re-hi
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19:01<samu>erm... question
19:02<samu>pff, i don't even know how to ask
19:03<samu>sorry I can't get this to work without help
19:03<samu>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Industries
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19:05<samu>bah i'm so depressed
19:06<samu>I have this nml file - https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puowthf5w
19:06<samu>what is wrong with it
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19:07<samu>the game doesn't spawn the oil rig only near the edge borders with that code
19:07<samu>and I can't figure out what is missing in the code to make that work
19:08<samu>I've been on this for 3 days :(
19:11<Supercheese>isn't there a game setting that controls border spawn proximity for oil rigs?
19:12<samu>not sure, I think yes, but the description only mentions oil refinery
19:12<samu>at least it behaves like oil refinery
19:12<Supercheese>Maximum distance from edge for Oil refineries ooooh
19:13<Supercheese>not rigs
19:13<samu>yes that setting
19:13<samu>i think it also works for oil rigs
19:13<Supercheese>perhaps, I dunno
19:14<samu>from my testings, the oil rig never spawns inside, only near edge
19:14<samu>but in the editor, you can place oil rigs anywhere you want
19:14<samu>scenario editor
19:14<samu>anywhere there is water, of course
19:15<Supercheese>I don't believe your grf would change that behavior at all
19:15<Supercheese>you only define a new layout
19:15<samu>it did
19:15<samu>oil rigs were spawning anywhere
19:19<samu>... and I need to fix it :)
19:19<samu>or help
19:22<samu>im running a test to find out if that setting also applies to oil rigs
19:23<samu>fast forwarding with 12 tiles from border and another with 48 tiles from border
19:30<samu>i have the results, "Maximum distance from edge for Oil refineries " applies to both oil refinery and oi rig
19:30<samu>just tested, do you want the screenshots?
19:30<samu>there's a clear visual difference
19:30<samu>with that setting 12 vs 48
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19:36<samu>oops, i disconnected
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19:39<samu>48 tiles -> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pTWHBinPwtgXY3VrCKrtZNXFmSzKxpTgyqt1HABXU-YhK6lDmEHjeBVTUVPICz2XA_9Uhob-g6vDyQqUnwSulpcp3jrY9zaozkCdkara08DCrtaxSl9HKAoD-CtVyNdskmK9SAIbOw5GTlQWsPc2jtQ/distance%20from%20edge%2048%20tiles.png?psid=1
19:39<samu>12 tiles ->https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pceb59qf5AM2xS_hhCDMLyls01gbGBRjSksndPh8a9Q3vLAHJCR6aCIKBeIVOWfZjsE0b7umx4N_3jylCf3c0hi0MJg2qbP_34nytvCW9yPrx-_0UdyHc83NDNhBXhqoH0wso_O8G7e1oS0iP0aXUwg/distance%20from%20edge%2012%20tiles.png?psid=1
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20:19<FUZxxl>I have this line
20:19<FUZxxl>It's trains are almost always full
20:19<FUZxxl>yet it runs at a huge loss
20:19<FUZxxl>it's weird
20:19<FUZxxl>it looses money on every station
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>do you use transfers (or cargodist)?
20:20<FUZxxl>I use cargodist
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>negative transfer income may happen if the vehicle is slower than the average journey, or part of the route goes backwards
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>adjust the transfer income factor in the setting
20:21<FUZxxl>what does that factor do?
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>it changes the accounting of income, to emphasise the first or last leg of the journey
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>it does not change the actual money you get for transporting
20:22<FUZxxl>ok
20:22<FUZxxl>my network has long-distance routes and each larger city has urban railways.
20:22<FUZxxl>these are pretty slow due to track layout restrictions
20:23<+glx>slow and long distance are not good for money
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>i usually put the transfer factor at about 30% (default is 70% or so)
20:24<FUZxxl>the long distance trains are fast, it's the urban lines that are slow
20:24<FUZxxl>they are on either end of the route
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>30% is easily enough for the long distance routes to still report a profit
20:25<FUZxxl>ok
20:28<FUZxxl>50% works for me
20:28<FUZxxl>thank you!
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 07 00:00:02 2015