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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-07

---Logopened Sat Feb 07 00:00:02 2015
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01:32<andythenorth>Pikka: did you win?
01:32<Pikka>nope
01:32<andythenorth>:|
01:32<andythenorth>was it fun?
01:32<Pikka>not really. it was interesting though.
01:33<andythenorth>now what?
01:33*andythenorth got ETS 2 for Mac finally. Lag-tastic, can’t play it
01:34<Pikka>now a holiday in sydney next week, finding a part time job and back to uni in a couple of weeks.
01:34<Pikka>and teaching civilAI to build aircraft
01:35<andythenorth>airport spam
01:36<Pikka>yes
01:36<andythenorth>GS?
01:36<Pikka>possibly
01:36<Pikka>not to mention newgrfs
01:36<Pikka>pineapple houses and such
01:36<Pikka>getting a job is probably more important though
01:44<andythenorth>oh details
01:46<andythenorth>no more 8bpp houses? :|
01:46*andythenorth needs a house set for tropic and arctic
01:47<andythenorth>and doesn’t want to make one
02:00<Pikka>yes
02:00<Pikka>me too
02:00<Pikka>although I do want to make one
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02:19<zooks>Anyone know how to get the proper rocky tiles back in opengfx? see http://i.imgur.com/5MiqvLq.png
02:22<andythenorth>Pikka: renderised houses?
02:45<Pikka>si
02:45<Pikka>very
02:46<Pikka>easy variation I suppose
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02:50<andythenorth>beans in my hopper cars
02:50<andythenorth>sugar in ya peas mate
02:53<Pikka>mmm, beans
02:56<@Alberth>moin
03:05<andythenorth>shall I ban beans in hoppers?
03:06<V453000>..
03:07<V453000>morningque
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03:11<andythenorth>bon
03:11<andythenorth>jour
03:13<@Alberth>beans is food, use a tank wagon?
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03:13<andythenorth>how about cold beans?
03:13<andythenorth>refrigerated wagon
03:14<@Alberth>hmm, canned beans?
03:14<@Alberth>although that would be "food" I guess
03:15<@Alberth>but refrigerated wagons always look nice
03:15<@Alberth>I already have so many 'normal' wagons :)
03:16<andythenorth>just use open car for everything :P
03:16<andythenorth>universal wagon
03:16<supermop>im hauling them in NG gondolas
03:17<supermop>NG gondola trains for everything
03:18<andythenorth>ftw
03:31<supermop>damn it what is this faster train
03:31<supermop>i just built a bunch of some 128kmh losers
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03:36<andythenorth>?
03:36<@Alberth>it's better than buying a 160kmh engine, and then find your tank wagon wont go faster than 104kmh :p
03:39<@peter1138>Apparently quite a lot of people play with wagon speed limits disabled
03:40<andythenorth>makes sense
03:40<andythenorth>nitrates in covered hoppers?
03:40*andythenorth wonders
03:45<@Alberth>is better in case it suddenly needs very much much more room
03:47<andythenorth>seems it is quite prone to sudden migrations
03:51<@Alberth>open cars may be even better
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03:57<roidal>hi
04:08-!-jogi [~Thunderbi@7.44.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openttd
04:15*andythenorth still busy as a bee
04:17-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd
04:17<supermop>northcock
04:18<Pikka>if your wagons don't go slower than your locos, what's the point of wagon speed limits? ;)
04:19<sla_ro|master>The point of wagon speed limit is to make it stay on track :P
04:20<@Alberth>openttd has no trouble at all with derailing wagons
04:21<@Alberth>20 wagons filled with coal, down hill, 45 degrees turn, and stopping in 1 tile. No problem
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04:24<andythenorth>supermop: it’s this http://www.lner.info/locos/P/p2.shtml
04:26<sla_ro|master>Alberth, true
04:26<sla_ro|master>but in real life, wagons have these limits :P
04:27<andythenorth>the point in Iron Horse is that there isn’t just one best engine
04:27<andythenorth>there are always ~3 best engines, depending on route
04:28<andythenorth>also bbl
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04:29<@Alberth>sla_ro|master: that's a bug in the world :)
04:33<roidal>:D
04:34<sla_ro|master>damn bugs, we must smash them
04:34<roidal>it's the same with maglev
04:35<roidal>in real life there is nothing like a loco, every wagon is a loco
04:35<roidal>:)
04:36<@Alberth>that should be fixable in newgrf, I think
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04:52<supermop>bbl
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05:02<@planetmaker><sla_ro|master> but in real life, wagons have these limits :P <-- in real life they do not have a limit. It's a user-implied one. Same as you can do in ordering your train to not go faster than XXX km/h
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05:03<Phreeze>hi guys :)
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05:23<Wolf01>hi o/
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05:28<@Alberth>moin
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06:28<samu>have you seen this? http://www.transporttycoon.com/
06:28<samu>chris sawyer released some transport tycoon for mobile
06:29<samu>and it's not free :/
06:29<Wolf01>something like 2 years ago
06:29<Wolf01>it's a sort of mobile locomotion
06:30<samu>he wants some money
06:31<andythenorth>is steam app rubbish on all operating systems?
06:31<andythenorth>or just OS X?
06:31<samu>and it's not being released on Windows
06:31<samu>boo
06:31<Wolf01>ehm, they actually released it for windows
06:31<Wolf01>it's called locomotion
06:32<samu>locomotion isn't running well on windows 7
06:33*andythenorth tries to find ETS settings that don’t result in ‘slug'
06:33<Wolf01>then they should patch lomo instead of releasing an identical game
06:34<samu>windows 7 distorts all colors when the game goes into fullscreen :(
06:34<samu>unplayable mainly because of that
06:34<Wolf01>did you try to run it in compatibility mode?
06:37<@Alberth>hmm, box car for oil?
06:38<andythenorth>barrels
06:41<@Alberth>fair enough :)
06:44<V453000>oil not in tankers? :(
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06:48<Wolf01>lol, locomotion requires the cd to play, I don't even have the drive on the new pc
06:48<Wolf01>too used to steam
06:49<Phreeze>iso -> mount it
06:49<Wolf01>this mean I need to make the iso first :P
06:51<Phreeze>download it somewhere ^^ it's faster
06:51-!-samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:51<samu>help me at english
06:52<samu>what is the opposite of edge
06:52<@Alberth>s/at/with/
06:52<samu>interior?
06:52<@Alberth>edge of what?
06:52<Phreeze>edge of glory
06:52<samu>editing my grf description with: Side effect issue: Oil Rigs can spawn in the 'opposite of map edge'
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>there is no edge!
06:53<@Alberth>Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere
06:53<samu>yeh, okay i guess
06:53<@Alberth>not sure it's an issue though
06:53<samu>it is
06:54<@Alberth>you can also see the original restriction as stupid
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't use the word "issue" either
06:54<@Alberth>in that case, it's a feature or a fix
06:54<samu>i didn't intended that to be a feature though
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>who said that was a requirement for a feature? :p
06:55<@Alberth>fair enough, it all depends on how you see things
06:56<samu>description updated
06:56<samu>Side effect issue: Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere, not only on the edge of the world.
06:57<samu>good/bad english?
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, the word "issue" is superfluous
06:57<samu>t.t
07:00<samu>brb
07:00<samu>Side effect behaviour: Oil Rigs can spawn everywhere, not only on the edge of the world.
07:00<samu>better?
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>so you replace one superfluous word with another superfluous word, that is also longer?
07:01<samu>hmm
07:01<samu>how would you do it?
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>i would look up the definition of superfluous
07:03<samu>Unintended issue?
07:03<samu>Bug?
07:04<samu>Bogus feature?
07:05<samu>serving no useful purpose; having no excuse for being
07:07<supermop>goodnight
07:08<samu>Known issue?
07:09<samu>Side effect?
07:09<samu>without a 3rd word?
07:11<samu>that would be implying it is welcome
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>it really does not...
07:12<@Alberth>it means "something unplanned happened as well"
07:14<samu>ok, thnks
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07:16<samu>and now, the real question, how can I fix it?
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07:29<@Alberth>adding a callback that checks the distance and denies allowing to build it
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07:38<Ketsuban>Dang, Alberth.
07:39<Ketsuban>I didn't expect you to merge the patch straight into the project. :P
07:40<@Alberth>oh, sorry :p
07:41<Ketsuban>I presume you tested it and it worked? If so I am astonished, given that I wasn't able to test it myself.
07:42<Ketsuban>Oh, looks like you merged by hand, which I did expect. Okay.
07:42<@Alberth>yeah, and s/\\80/{STRING}/ mostly
07:43<Ketsuban>Mkay. I guess maybe what I read was targeted at people writing NFO.
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07:45<Wolf03>go away Wolf01
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07:47<Wolf01>stupid old cd games with copy protection, I'm doomed to connect the external dvd drive every time I need to play one
07:49<Wolf01>btw, samu, I don't have any problem playing locomotion on win 8.1 beside the resolution which is not the native one
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>go look up a nocd crack, man.
07:49<Wolf01>eh, there isn't the EU 1.76 one
07:49-!-Guest4566 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:50<Wolf01>EU 1.0 or US 1.76
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>then i can't help you.
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>i've never actually played locomotion
07:51<andythenorth>I have seen screenshots
07:51<andythenorth>that is enough
07:51<Wolf01>I could fix it, if I want to throw away some days of re-learning the assembly code and use a debugger
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08:03<andythenorth>cat is copy-protected
08:04<andythenorth>is today the day when consist management is figured out? o_O
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08:06<samu>i found a bug
08:06<samu>cargo flow doesn't show on the extra viewports
08:08<@Alberth>cargo flow panel controls the main display window only
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08:15<andythenorth>Alberth: are you playing a FIRS game?
08:16<@Alberth>I was pondering to stop, the game looks mostly done :)
08:18<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Heerhugorecht_Transport_1940-03-06.sav
08:23<samu>layout_num
08:23<andythenorth>been busy with farms
08:26<andythenorth>Alberth: no bee? o_O
08:27<samu>watch that: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxjbdnins
08:27<samu>there is a CHECK_OIL_RIG
08:27<samu>how do I put that in the .nml file?
08:28<@Alberth>andythenorth: -rw-rw-r--. 1 alberth alberth 148096 Dec 13 21:13 save/Heerhugorecht Transport, 1862-01-03.sav <-- started pre-BB :)
08:28<andythenorth>ah
08:29<samu>i'm trying to decipher callback
08:30<samu>the callback must point to CHECK_OIL_RIG?
08:30<@Alberth>no, you have to code such a check in newgrf yourself
08:31<samu>callback_flags: bitmask(CHECK_OIL_RIG);
08:31<samu>but the distance is depenand on a game setting, how do i make the newgrf look into the value?
08:33<samu>Maximum distance from edge for Oil Refineries: this value
08:33<samu>yesterday I proved that setting is also applied to Oil Rigs
08:34<@Alberth>only the default industries, ie if you don't make a newgrf
08:34<@Alberth>your 'CHECK_OIL_RIG' does not check for edge distance
08:34<@Alberth>you have to add that
08:37<samu>newgrf can't interact with game settings?
08:37<andythenorth>depends on the setting
08:37<andythenorth>some can be read
08:38<samu>erm, i feel like i'm repeating myself, this game setting: "Maximum distance from edge for Oil Refineries: this value"
08:38<samu>i'm confused
08:39<samu>I need a callback that checks distance, this distance is based on the value that is set there
08:39<samu>must find an example of a callback somewhere
08:51<samu>"Removing or changing the ID of an existing vehicle, house, industry, airport, station or industry tile or objectIf you haven't defined explicitly any IDs: always add new items to the end of the list, the new vehicle is the last vehicle of that type, the new tiletype the last tiletype, the new industry the last industry; don't comment out an existing one or re-sort the items " - is this the problem I'm facing?
08:59<@Alberth>sounds like compatibility advice to me
09:02<samu>I'm lost again :(
09:02<samu>I am trying to decipher the first table
09:02<samu>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps
09:02<samu>namely, the oil rig, what are those values supposed to mean
09:03<andythenorth>the first table is numbers from the action 0 props
09:03<andythenorth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries
09:03<andythenorth>action 0 in nfo <=> property block in nml
09:05<andythenorth>samu: are you trying to provide a distance check when constructing the industry?
09:11-!-DanMacK [~4618986f@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
09:11<DanMacK>Hey all
09:12-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f747a1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
09:16<samu>yup
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09:18<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
09:24<Guest4559>Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at up to five stations within town influence within a two month period. It does not matter which cargos are loaded/unloaded.
09:24-!-Guest4559 is now known as roidal
09:24<roidal>how exactly is that to interpret?
09:25<roidal>if there is a powerplant within influence of a city, and i deliver coal to this plant
09:25<roidal>the city starts to grow?
09:35<@Alberth>seems to fit in the description, doesn't it?
09:35<@Alberth>perhaps try it?
09:36<roidal>i don't see this effect
09:36<roidal>but now i try to deliver cargo to the city itselfe
09:38<@Alberth>don't know where you got that quote, but you may want to check against the Game Mechanics wiki page
09:40<roidal>it is from there
09:40<roidal>:D
09:40<roidal>http://wiki.openttd.org/Towns#Town_Growth
09:40<samu>andythenorth: it's not when constructing myself, but when the game itself decides to spawn one over the course of a game
09:40<andythenorth>use industry location_check cb
09:40<andythenorth>iirc, return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW or CB_RESULT_LOCATION_DISALLOW
09:41<andythenorth>might need to do it in the industry check, or the tile check
09:44<samu>oh, sorry, this is misleading, apparently this also applies to players in a game, just tried to build an oil rig in the inside and i get the error: can only be positioned near edges of map
09:44<samu>this is the behaviour that is missing
09:44<samu>ok let me try to do that
09:46<frosch123>andythenorth: he, now also pkp set starts to spam people with telling them to register on eints :p
09:47<andythenorth>it’s a trend
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09:54<samu>switch (FEAT_INDUSTRIES, SELF, oil_rig_spawn, <expression>) {
09:54<samu>what's an expression
09:55-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
09:55<andythenorth>can be as simple as looking up a variable
09:55<andythenorth>or more complex
09:55<samu>Parameter from another GRF
09:55<andythenorth>as an example case, you could just check game date there, and allow / disallow based on date
09:56<andythenorth>or anything else that’s a valid variable in a switch
09:56<samu>it's a switch block that I need?
09:57<samu>ummmph
09:58<samu>what is the <grfid> of OpenTTD game settings, if such thing exists?
09:59<andythenorth>there isn’t
09:59<andythenorth>you’ve got a misunderstanding ;)
09:59<samu>as always :(
09:59<andythenorth>happens
10:00<andythenorth>what variable do you want to check?
10:00<samu>i am looking for the distance from edge for oil refineries to put there as an expression
10:01<andythenorth>hmm
10:01<samu>brb
10:01<andythenorth>not sure there’s a handy var for that
10:02<samu>in openttd.cfg oil_refinery_limit = 32
10:02*andythenorth wonders, maybe check map size and current tile?
10:02<samu>it can be customized from 12 to 48
10:02<andythenorth>dunno, someone else will know better than me
10:02<andythenorth>you can’t read that setting from newgrf afaict
10:02<samu>Alberth: !!
10:02<samu>:O
10:03<andythenorth>nah, Alberth always takes care to not know newgrf spec too well ;)
10:03<@Alberth>:)
10:03<andythenorth>it’s a silly setting anyway
10:04<samu>it must retrieve it from there, not silly :(
10:04<andythenorth>it’s a silly feature, why replicate it?
10:04<@Alberth>use a parameter?
10:04<andythenorth>better to not limit oil rigs
10:05<samu>it affects oil rigs, even though the description only mentions Oil Refineries
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10:05<andythenorth>ok, so to prevent that, put ‘1’ in the expression (should work iirc)
10:05<andythenorth>and return ‘CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW’ in the switch
10:05<andythenorth>then oil rigs will build anywhere
10:07<frosch123>we should trash all the weird industry settings, and bundle ogfx+industries with ottd, and make it default :)
10:07<andythenorth>I suggested that years ago :P
10:08<samu>48 tiles -> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pTWHBinPwtgXY3VrCKrtZNXFmSzKxpTgyqt1HABXU-YhK6lDmEHjeBVTUVPICz2XA_9Uhob-g6vDyQqUnwSulpcp3jrY9zaozkCdkara08DCrtaxSl9HKAoD-CtVyNdskmK9SAIbOw5GTlQWsPc2jtQ/distance%20from%20edge%2048%20tiles.png?psid=1
10:08<samu>12 tiles -> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pceb59qf5AM2xS_hhCDMLyls01gbGBRjSksndPh8a9Q3vLAHJCR6aCIKBeIVOWfZjsE0b7umx4N_3jylCf3c0hi0MJg2qbP_34nytvCW9yPrx-_0UdyHc83NDNhBXhqoH0wso_O8G7e1oS0iP0aXUwg/distance%20from%20edge%2012%20tiles.png?psid=1
10:08<andythenorth>frosch123: default industries would have to stay in code, because of newgrfs over-riding?
10:08<frosch123>yes, but noone would see them
10:08<samu>I did
10:08<samu>:(
10:09<andythenorth>developers would see them
10:09<andythenorth>ugh
10:09<frosch123>otoh, newgrf authors will have a harder time if they no longer know what "default" is :p
10:09<andythenorth>tmwftlb :)
10:10<andythenorth>do flat docks instead :P
10:14<samu>let me look at ogfx+industries behaviour
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10:17<samu>it is bugged also
10:17<samu>oil rig just spawned right in the middle
10:18<@Alberth>it's not, that is intended
10:19<samu>intended bug, as someone used to say
10:19<samu>:(
10:19<roidal>another question: does there apear new cities while playing?
10:20<andythenorth>no
10:20<@Alberth>unless you found one :)
10:21<samu>also, your refineries are spawning inside, so uhm....
10:21<samu>it's your grf?
10:22<V453000>I dont think anybody has a problem with it samu XD
10:23<samu>there is a parameter to change that setting, this one can't be intended, as it is set to 16 tiles
10:23<samu>and they're spawning anywhere
10:23<samu>NewGRF parameter on openttd+industries
10:23<@Alberth>I don't consider it my newgrf, but I don't know who owns it, probably including its owners
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like an inherent TTD problem :p
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10:24<@Alberth>samu: it says "oil refineries"
10:24<samu>yes
10:25<samu>they are spawning inside
10:25<@Alberth>and "distance from water"
10:25<@Alberth>not "edge"
10:25<samu>oh, i see
10:26<samu>oh, so it's intended
10:26<samu>they're spawning close to rivers
10:26<samu>lel
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>that's where the refinery is over here... "realism"
10:27<samu>i've read that wrong
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10:27<@Alberth>no way to make groups of parameters for newgrf, is there?
10:28<@Alberth>a sanely ordered list is probably the best one can do
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>a tree could be useful
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>and parameters that only show up when newgrf_developer is active
10:29<V453000>XD
10:29<V453000>that sounds evil Eddi
10:29<@Alberth>like that would stop anyone :p
10:30<V453000>rather make a new cfg value for privileged_person :P
10:30<frosch123>we have that for ais
10:30<frosch123>anyway, settings trees for newgrfs have been suggested before
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>but you can't buy anything with a suggestion :p
10:31<frosch123>but as long as there are no newgrf with more than 5 settings, it's a silly suggestion
10:31<@Alberth>what about 18 settings? ogfx+industries
10:32<V453000>for me top priority would at the moment be to get _some_ rules on how to make land sprites :)
10:32<V453000>frosch123: ? :P
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it would help with CETS, as instead of a complicated list i could have a sub-tree with a setting for each entry
10:32<frosch123>the base cost mod has many settings, but i do not see how that could make use of a tree
10:32<frosch123>ogfx+industries is likely the only grf
10:32<frosch123>cets does not exist :p
10:32<@Alberth>:D
10:33<samu>where can i find ogfx nml files?
10:33<frosch123>V453000: i started on the land sprites :)
10:33<V453000>: ) :) :)
10:33<V453000>how far did that get? :P
10:33<samu>ogfx+industries .nml's
10:33<frosch123>i made an object grf with plain white tiles
10:33<frosch123>but now need to add 1x and 2x zoom plain white tiles
10:33<V453000>right
10:33<samu>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries ?
10:34<frosch123>i started on the 1x ones
10:34<V453000>& everyone will align to those objects you make?
10:34<frosch123>i can put the objects everywhere, so can compare them with any existing base tiles
10:34<frosch123>they have coloured borders, so you can tell when stuff overlaps
10:35<V453000>:)
10:40<@Alberth>samu: it's generated from the .pnml files
10:41<samu>... figuring out where the oil refinery placement rules is located
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10:46<@Alberth>samu: src/industry_definition.pnml around line 118
10:46<samu>spec_flags:
10:46<samu>this must be it
10:46<samu>oh, that
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10:56*andythenorth thinks nested newgrf settings might be better
10:56<andythenorth>or worse
10:57<andythenorth>one of those two anyway
10:57<andythenorth>unlikely to be ‘meh'
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11:10<samu>when im creating the .grf file, i get an error
11:11<samu>←[Knmlc ERROR: "oilrig.nml", line 76: Unrecognized identifier 'CHECK_OIL_RIG
11:11<samu> location_check: bitmask(CHECK_OIL_RIG);
11:13<samu>i must use switch?
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11:28<andythenorth>CHECK_OIL_RIG doesn’t mean anything in this context
11:28<andythenorth>do you want to always allow construction? Or limit it according to rules?
11:29<andythenorth>location_check: CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW;
11:29<samu>limit according to rules
11:29<andythenorth>would allow construction I think
11:29<andythenorth>if you want rules, you need switch or switches
11:30<samu>i still don't know how to refer to a value that is not part of the .grf
11:31<samu>the rules are being overriden :(
11:31<andythenorth>what value do you want to refer to?
11:33<samu>game_creation.oil_refinery_limit
11:33<samu>i think that's it
11:33<andythenorth>I couldn’t see a var that would let you read that
11:34<andythenorth>I also can’t see an obvious var to read the distance to edge of map
11:34<andythenorth>there is probably a way to do it
11:34<andythenorth>but you might have to get the map size, check the current tile x and y
11:34<andythenorth>or do a circular tile search for radius n
11:35<samu>:(
11:35<andythenorth>but still, I don’t think you can read the game setting for oil refinery distance
11:35*andythenorth wonders if there’s some global var for it, or in 80+
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>circular search for map edge? you know exactly where the edge is if you know your own coordinates
11:36<andythenorth>read the map size?
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>you can read log(map size)
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11:36<andythenorth>is the relevant distance manhattan, or crow-flies?
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11:37<samu>what would happen if I change the value during mid-game? will the grf respond to it?
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: for distance to edge, that is the same
11:37*andythenorth draws a triangle in his head, for a tile near a corner
11:37<andythenorth>yeah, ok
11:37<samu>i get the feeling it can't be done
11:38<andythenorth>I don’t think that setting is exposed to newgrf
11:39<samu>what does override, substitute do exactly?
11:39<andythenorth>can’t see anything in savegame internals about that setting
11:40<andythenorth>nor global vars
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>samu: "override" means "use this industry instead of that one", and "substitute" means "use that industry if someone dares to remove the GRF"
11:40<andythenorth>samu: I think you don’t need to continue this specific quest, you can’t read that setting
11:40<andythenorth>or at least, I can’t find it in newgrf docs
11:40<samu>oh, too bad :(
11:40<andythenorth>it’s a silly setting anyway
11:41<andythenorth>why do you want oil rigs near map edge?
11:41<samu>what I'm replacing is only the layout, so, maybe override, substitute could be wrong since it's referring to an entire new industry?
11:41<samu>I dunno
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>you dunno.
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>maybe read up on it if you dunno?
11:42<samu>"use this industry instead of that one"
11:43<samu>maybe the issue is in how the game looks for the industry?
11:43<samu>gahhh...
11:44<samu>how to refer to my layout name directly?
11:44<samu>in the svn file -> static const IndustryTileTable * const _tile_table_oil_rig[] = {
11:45<samu>must i name my layout _tile_table_oil_rig_0 ?
11:45<andythenorth>nope
11:46<samu>so basically, not defining a new industry per se, only a new layout
11:46<andythenorth>there is absolutely no connection between the identifiers in the game C++ and the identifiers in nml
11:47<Wolf01>http://9gag.com/gag/azEE48Z ahah!
11:49<samu>my lack of knowledge really makes it hard for me to explain stuff
11:50<samu>well, I am giving up then, if that's not possible to do
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11:55<samu>last try, messing around with the override/substitute, and that's it
11:55<samu>brb
11:57<samu>INDUSTRYTYPE_OIL_RIG - is this the same as 0x05 ?
11:57<samu>whatever, I'll figure it out
11:59<@Alberth>looks like it
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12:00<Phreeze>are you still programming in NFO ?
12:00<samu>without override line, there is now two types of Oil Rigs
12:00<samu>lel
12:00<@Alberth>in general, when you have to fight a system and it's not your lack of knowledge, take it as a sign that maybe, just maybe, your ideas are not as good as you think
12:01<@Alberth>rather than trying the seemingly impossible, try to find a middle way that works
12:02<samu>i wanna fool the game into thinking it's still the same oil rig
12:02<samu>because the overrides is flawed somewhere
12:03<@Alberth>why?
12:03<@Alberth>the game doesn't care
12:04<samu>it appears part of the override or substitute has a flaw from my limited understanding
12:05<samu>or if it's not in that, then it is the part of the game where it decides when to build an industry that is flawed
12:05<@Alberth>what I am trying to say that maybe the 'flaw' isn't a flaw, but it's designed to do that, and the original is considered to be flawed
12:06<@Alberth>and you are trying very hard to re-introduce the flaw
12:06<samu>.o
12:07<@Alberth>which is not a problem in its own, but it is good to think whether that is a good idea
12:09<@Alberth>which brings us back to the question why you want oil rigs only at the edge of the map
12:10<samu>it's their intended behaviour
12:10<@Alberth>and quite maybe, "the original did it" isn't a very good reason
12:10<samu>I didn't want to change that
12:10<@Alberth>ok, you still don't?
12:11<samu>I don't what?
12:12<@Alberth>I didn't want to change that <-- that
12:13<samu>yes
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>are you 12 by any chance?
12:13<@Alberth>well, you're not going to get the oil refinery limit from openttd, it seems you can't get it
12:14<@Alberth>but you can use a parameter instead to set it for your newgrf
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>or, maybe, 6?
12:14<samu>can the parameter be set to read values from the game settings?
12:14<@Alberth>NO
12:15<samu>ok :(
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause>that. was. loud.
12:15<samu>I'm sorry
12:15<@Alberth>well, I think we tried telling it for a zillion times already, and it didn;t seem to register
12:18<@Alberth>you understand you are making a lot of assumptions on the map layout, right?
12:18<samu>yeah
12:18<@Alberth>eg land around the edges, and water in the middle will fail
12:18<andythenorth>I stopped trying to help because I don’t understand the goal :)
12:20<samu>can't be done, according to Albert
12:21<andythenorth>I lost track of the goal somewhere
12:22<@Rubidium>you know the original goal of the map edge limit for oil refineries was to have refineries near water connected to (most) oil rigs. Primarily since oil rigs would be at the edge due to the watery edges
12:23<b_jonas>Rubidium: indeed. and it allows a nice network where you run oil trains around the edge of the map and passenger trains in the middle of the map
12:24<@Rubidium>with a 256x256 map that means a refinery is at most 128 away, with 4096x4096 it's at most 2048. So in the early game you can't even have profitable vehicles carrying coal from the center area since they take way more than 1 year for a round trip
12:30<samu>can i talk?
12:39<@peter1138>No.
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13:00*andythenorth legoing
13:02<V453000>fucking christ, openttd traffic is much more intelligent than this max plugin ._.
13:03<V453000>"realistic simulation of cars" my ass
13:03<V453000>the realism is clearly killing it
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>what's a max plugin?
13:05<V453000>Autodesk 3DS Max plugin
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13:41<samu>im doing a snow line height comparison between TTDX and OTTD
13:42<samu>the default isn't 7 or 6, it's something in-between
13:46<samu>if there was a "6.5" that would be it
13:51<samu>oh, nevermind, looks like the issue is something else
13:51<samu>it's opengfx that is not drawing snow where it was supposed to be snow
13:51<samu>original_windows doesn't have this problem
13:52<frosch123>yes, the newer basesets fix the ttd snow behaviour
13:53<frosch123>ttd snow considers the height of the north corner of a tile
13:53<frosch123>which results in asymmetric snow levels
13:56<V453000>"issue" is somewmere else :)
13:58<andythenorth>probably next to cat
13:58<Phreeze>bad feature
13:58*andythenorth takes a picture of am multimeter
13:58<andythenorth>am / a *
14:02<samu>I compared the three
14:11<samu>compare: https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pPKfzV2I1UnQV1XxAcK--2976wdSpePUwZ4JAto43UhLSi6Tj7xAyOAYNxNF7-dZTeJavmVYFsAdZgxbT2aaWbqaA6eQbpLtARwWhbRCPytX9DT6g2EdSBpEe1-BWkpJ381dyLwpC_hEl-9OFag99RQ/snow%20line%20comparison.png?psid=1
14:15<V453000>yes, different mechanism
14:15<V453000>where is a problem :)
14:15<samu>it's apples to apples comparison
14:15<V453000>ttd just takes the tile and puts amount of snow there, opengfx tries to make more of a gradient
14:15<V453000>it is apples to whatever the hell else :)
14:16<samu>that's not ttd, that's original_windows
14:16<V453000>am aware, sorry for wrong word
14:16<samu>land area information says the tile is snow-covered, while it's not
14:17<V453000>._.
14:17<V453000>well if it such a huge problem you can drew some tiny bits of snow to those ogfx snow sprites :)
14:17<V453000>draw*+
14:20<V453000>but my guess is that most people prefer the smoother transition
14:21<samu>ah I see what you've done
14:23<V453000>I didnt do anything :)
14:28<samu>yeah ottd transition looks more natural, but only two transition levels are clearly noticeable
14:29<V453000>ok 2 questions
14:29<samu>original_windows does have a visible 3rd transition, but makes it look squary
14:29<V453000>what is your problem
14:29<V453000>what are you going to do about it
14:29<samu>nothing, just looking at it
14:30<V453000>looking at something for 2 hours without a reason sounds strange
14:31<samu>:)
14:36<andythenorth>V453000 I think we are so far off the ‘strange’ scale
14:36<andythenorth>that we shouldn’t comment
14:36*andythenorth reads the tile location checks for every single bloody FIRS industry
14:37<andythenorth>all 66 of them
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14:48<V453000>andythenorth: XD
14:49<V453000>I do everything for a good reason
14:49<V453000>with clear aim
14:49<andythenorth>I don’t
14:49<andythenorth>I do it for the lulz
14:52<V453000>:D
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15:34<samu>hey, the close all windows hotkey also closed message from manufacturer :(
15:34<samu>such a bad timing
15:35<V453000>must be a bug
15:35<samu>if it had shown up a second later
15:35<samu>yeah
15:36<samu>not a bug, but a suggestion
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>weird... i got a "steam password reset" e-mail, even though i didn't request it...
15:38<V453000>that was just me trying to hack into your steam porn database Eddi
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15:44<DanMacK>Hey all
15:45<V453000>hi
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15:58<chillcore>hello all ;)
15:58<V453000>hihi
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15:59<chillcore>I am not disturbing any big converstaions? Seeing as this canel is always on-topic :P
16:00<chillcore>I was just wondering what the current status of the vieport is ... in rregards of MHL and glitches. unfortunately I am unable to recreate them
16:00<@Alberth>just ignore any other discussion :p
16:00<V453000>what is MHL :D
16:00<chillcore>k. Hi Alberth
16:00<@Alberth>bigger hills, V :)
16:01<chillcore>More Height Levels in trunk is troubled or something. at least that is what I saw in the screenshots
16:01<V453000>ah right
16:01<V453000>from my POV, setting higher values (like than 25) just creates stupid hills which only go up, and up, and up, until the cap
16:02<V453000>it would be nicer if the algorithm stopped making a hill occassionally XD
16:02<chillcore>the viewport needs rewriting completely and I have no clue what the current status is.
16:02<@Alberth>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6216 <-- a fun one, not sure if it's related, but along the side line at least
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16:03<@Alberth>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6156 is the one I was looking for
16:04<@Alberth>no progress there, so I assume that the patch by frosch has not been added
16:04<V453000>tall glitches are fixable? :0
16:04<@Alberth>which also matches with my local repository copy
16:05<chillcore>I agree V453000. Check out the patch I wrote for tuning the perlin noise parameters ;) you can regenerate the map over and over again without having to wait for anything. Just the terrain (scneario editor). feel free to pass me some values you like for the presets.
16:05<V453000>=D
16:05<V453000>where can I find it?
16:05<@Alberth>V those are due to adding MHL, that didn't take new bridge height into account afaik
16:05<frosch123>chillcore: i just didn't commit the fixes yet
16:06<chillcore>development forum under "to tweak or not to tweak" v453000
16:06<V453000>hahaaa
16:06<@Alberth>I'd like to talk to you about that too
16:07<V453000>me only reads grafix development forum :P
16:07<chillcore>... taking notes Alberth.
16:07<@Alberth>:)
16:07<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/generate_world_wip.png
16:07<V453000>chillcore: could you compile a win64 binary for me to test please? :)
16:08<@Alberth>I am looking into rewriting the world-gen window
16:08<chillcore>not commited yet I see frosh thx for the info
16:08<V453000>holyfuck Alberth
16:08<V453000>:)
16:08<@Alberth>those pictures are work in progress
16:08<chillcore>Frosh: I do not have anything set up on my windoze yet ... I'll have a looksie tomorrow or maybe in a bit?
16:08<V453000>Alberth: possible to make big buttons on the left to fill the whole column? :P
16:08<@Alberth>currently a bit stuck on mhl fixes. I want to draw the map as preview
16:09<@Alberth>V453000: not sure the left side even stays
16:09<V453000>ritez :)
16:09<chillcore>I see Alberth. that would perhaps be better than what I had in mind ... re-using the smallmap's contour mode
16:09<@Alberth>it seems a waste of screen space :)
16:09<frosch123>chillcore: you meant to talk to V ?
16:10<chillcore>hmm who asked for a windoze binarie? these names in yellow are practically unreadable
16:11<chillcore>sorry?
16:11<@Alberth>that's V :D
16:11<chillcore>yes Frosh my appologies
16:11<V453000>XD
16:11<V453000>^^
16:12<V453000>it is especially wtf when frosch dares to use f123000 in game :D
16:12<chillcore>those screenis lok very nice Alberth ;)
16:13<chillcore>sorry typing ..; I need a keyboard that is cabled again
16:13<V453000>.
16:13<V453000>ancient keyboards ftw
16:13<frosch123>V453000: anything wrong with f123000? :p
16:13<V453000>no, perfectly fine :)
16:14<@Alberth>chillcore: it's a lot of nothing, just splitting the window into smaller parts, I have been doing some rewriting in the calculation code too, but that's not visible :)
16:14<@Alberth>not sure how to proceed though
16:14<@Alberth>I guess at some point it should be merged somehow
16:15<chillcore>hmm ... have you checked out my patch? the code I mean? 200_10 is pretty cool in itself. but useless untill you have an extra gui
16:18<chillcore>Alberth: your screenies are somewhat similar to what I had in mind. but I did not get that far yet. this gui stuffs from scratch is pretty extensive
16:18<chillcore>these are meant for new game or scenario?
16:18<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/worldgen_changes.patch is the total patch, but it seems very hack-ish
16:18<@Alberth>I can give you a patch queue if you want
16:19<@Alberth>(it's in the same state, but in smaller pieces :p )
16:20<@Alberth>at least for "new game" don't know how the scenario comes into play, but it would be useful there too
16:20<@Alberth>I have your patch somewhere, but no 7z
16:21<chillcore>A patch queue would be cool too. ... what format would you prefer? I can rezip and PM them to you (or upload to forums)
16:21<@Alberth>I installed that too, but didn't put it into a clone so I can try it
16:22<chillcore>Hmm my browser refuses to open that link to your patch. I willhave to check the logs in a bit and open manually.
16:23<@Alberth>I have 7z now, just didn't have time so far to extract the patches, and install them in a clone
16:23<@Alberth>it's 192K text :)
16:23<chillcore>hihi
16:25<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/10_80_worldgen_patches.tgz patch queue
16:25<@Alberth>no series file, but that's easy to make :)
16:25<chillcore>feedback much apreciated but do note I am not done yet ... there is a few todo's and not yet finished patches not included in the last zip
16:25<chillcore>indeed pretty easy
16:26<@Alberth>it's all random hacking, nothing is final yet :)
16:26<@Alberth>but you may be able to use parts
16:27<chillcore>that is fine. and indeed. thx ;)
16:27<@Alberth>the worldgen window is a big monster, with lots of code
16:28<@Alberth>still trying to wrap my head around it :)
16:28<chillcore>I tried to keep my patches as clean as possible but some things ended up in top ...
16:28<chillcore>It is ... I tried to keep it simples?
16:28<+glx>left panel is ugly ;)
16:29<chillcore>not anymore the lines are aligned as text not as label no more glx
16:29<@Alberth>tried to keep it as simple as possible
16:29<chillcore>yeah alberth?
16:29<andythenorth>we can fix layout later
16:29<andythenorth>when it works
16:29<chillcore>indeed
16:29<@Alberth>you didn't ask for english correction? sorry
16:29<andythenorth>are the buttons the right buttons <- more important
16:30<@Alberth>glx: I don't like the left window much, it's highly likely to get removed
16:30<@Alberth>*panel
16:30<+glx>some kind of tabs would be better
16:31<chillcore>glx: I saw someone mentioning the labels being centered here in the logs and changed it.
16:31<andythenorth>I had some designs kicking around ages ago
16:31<@Alberth>it belongs at the bottom somewhere, I think
16:31<andythenorth>somewhere in forums
16:31<chillcore>glx: I changed the whole thing several times and that is why it was labels ten text then ... I am concentrating on functionality
16:32<chillcore>as andy sais ... layout can always be adjustedin the end
16:32<chillcore>I stuffed the gui stuff in frames so they can be shuffled around more easily
16:33<chillcore>later ...
16:33<chillcore>But feel free to make suggestions
16:34<@Alberth>I will have a look
16:34<@Alberth>not very soon probably
16:34<chillcore>glx: if you download the previous patch queue ... you will find a "wishfull thinking" patch with just some ideas of what it could be in the end
16:35<chillcore>whenever is good alberth
16:35<chillcore>there is tons of stuffs to do still, and I really would like to take my time to get it right
16:35<chillcore>taking my time is relative offcourse
16:36<@Alberth>we all do that here, that's why it's not a commercial project :)
16:36<chillcore>I think the viewport is more important at this point in time?
16:36<chillcore>Yay
16:36<chillcore>^^^ not comercial I mean
16:36<@Alberth>yeah, I'd like to have all current functionality first, or at least establish it can work
16:37<@Alberth>otherwise it's all useless
16:38<chillcore>I am not yet sure about the 'new game' functionality of patch 200_10 ... scenario editor I am very happy with
16:38<chillcore>but I lack feedback hehe
16:38<chillcore>seeing as I am biased
16:39<@Alberth>scenario editor needs lots of love :)
16:40<@Alberth>being able to use the same things for the SE would be very good
16:40<chillcore>would/could someone make a binarie for windows please? for v and others ... not lazy but if I can avoid installing what I need on this windows 8 installation ...
16:40<chillcore>alberth; I do use the same but it opens differently
16:41<samu>i found a bug
16:41<chillcore>in new game you have to click the "terrain options" button for tgen to open
16:41<chillcore>in scenario tgen opens automatically and then the normal gui when you're done
16:41<@Alberth>makes sense if you don't want to rewrite the entire world gen window :)
16:41<samu>in the the scenario editor, when you attempt to destroy an oil rig via it's station tile, you can't
16:42<chillcore>alberth: ye ... just the original terragenises ... I am thinking about a seperate tgen gui for that
16:42<chillcore>as opposed to greying out stuffs
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16:43<@Alberth>chillcore: if you have input for http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6216 that would be useful, we're still finding out how you can make such a map :)
16:44<chillcore>let me grab my ipad for a sec ... I really locked down this browser good ;)
16:44<@Alberth>your buttons can be a separate tab, or a separate step in the generation process or so
16:44<chillcore>yes that is the idea.
16:45<chillcore>it is hard to explain but while testing it makes sense
16:45<chillcore>I want to move everything that can not be generated without regenerating the map to the tgen gui
16:46<chillcore>except for things that are also needed for original terragenisis .. those would be in the code twice
16:46<chillcore>I mean available in two guis ...
16:46<chillcore>not sure yet
16:47<@Alberth>we'll figure it out :)
16:47<chillcore>yeah ;)
16:47<chillcore>going to check flyspray real quick
16:48<@Alberth>no hurries, it's interesting, but not game breaking or so
16:48<chillcore>that is a starnge picture ... never seen anything like that
16:49<@Alberth>yeah :)
16:49<chillcore>same as in the topic ... them screenies hackalittlebit made I can not reproduce
16:49<@Alberth>world gen is complicated to reproduce to say the least :)
16:50<chillcore>yes ..; that is why I reintroduced a seed and disabled generating a new in scenarioeditor
16:50<chillcore>I did it in a different way then it was before
16:50<chillcore>patch 80
16:51<chillcore>some silly magic going on there ... UINT32_MAX
16:51<chillcore>but I nailed it
16:51<chillcore>on starting openttd a new seed is still generated as is now
16:51<chillcore>and new game too
16:51<chillcore>nothing changed there
16:51<chillcore>I should type longer sentences ... bad habbit
16:52<andythenorth>bad hobbit
16:52<chillcore>that too
16:53<chillcore>bug 6216 seems liek bad values for perlin noise ... read too much out of bounds
16:53<chillcore>I saw a vid on that on the numberphile channel
16:53<chillcore>;)
16:54<@Alberth>ah, we found an expert on the matter :D
16:54<chillcore>forgot her name but she explained something I was seeing too ... flats and little dots
16:54<chillcore>hehe
16:55<@Alberth>with your patch, you'd at least have the option to fix the problem
16:55<chillcore>as I uderstand it the intersting part happens in a certain region whern you go to far you get those artifacts
16:55<chillcore>indeed
16:56<chillcore>let me see if I can find that vid ... it is not that long
16:56<@Alberth>:)
16:56<@Alberth>V is finding new topics on the development forum :)
16:57<V453000>?
16:57<chillcore>aha "the mandelbrot set" ...
16:58<V453000>ah t3h 3D
16:59<@Alberth>andythenorth: "Metal Car" ?
16:59<chillcore>alberth: published 25 juli 2014
17:00<chillcore>I would type in the link but with them Is and Qs
17:01<chillcore>hmm wait ... the thing that I think happens in that bug is a dfferent vid ... link at the end of the vid I mentioned
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17:03<chillcore>better to watch both vids ... so mandelbrot set and the the filled julia set
17:03<@Alberth>no idea how to find a video on date alone :)
17:03<chillcore>hmm ok gimme a sec
17:04<@Alberth>/me gives lots of secs
17:05<frosch123>https://translator.openttdcoop.org/ <- added manual and register links at top
17:05<frosch123>found matching icons :p
17:05<chillcore>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGMRB4O922I
17:06<chillcore>then at the endof the vid click through
17:06<@Alberth>woow, I can translate russian as well :D
17:06<chillcore>in the second one she mentions what happens if you take things too far in regards of perlin noise
17:06<@Alberth>looking good frosch123, icons look very good to me
17:07<chillcore>btw a value of 0 I dissallowed because between 0 and 1 strange things happen
17:07<chillcore>^^^ alberth
17:07<@Alberth>wise precaution :)
17:07<frosch123>hmm, i copied the manual link from the front page
17:07<frosch123>but maybe it should link to the strings section instead
17:08<@Alberth>makes sense
17:08<@Alberth>chillcore: hmm, firefox is blocking my video plugin thingie, need to look into that
17:08<@Alberth>thanks for the link, I'll check it out
17:09<chillcore>change https to http? it blocks here too though in firefox I need to mess around and force html5
17:10<frosch123>ah, we already had a string docs links on the edit page
17:10<@Alberth>no, it has to do with plugin being obsolete or not safe or so
17:10<chillcore>instead of flash that isah ok that may be flash ... I got rid off that completely ... too much trouble
17:10<@Alberth>frosch123: I have PolTram in the list, with No Access for both
17:11<chillcore>but yeah you 've gt the link ;)
17:11<frosch123>yes? that
17:11<frosch123>'s correct?
17:12<@Alberth>https://translator.openttdcoop.org/language/nl_NL <-- says "start new"
17:12<frosch123>Alberth: that was the goal of the list, to show for which projects you have to request separate access from project author, resp. not care :p
17:12<frosch123>your "profile" page should tell more
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17:13<chillcore>frosh: chillcore: i just didn't commit the fixes yet <-- any ETA on that? no rush though
17:13<chillcore>hmm frosch
17:13<frosch123>i have a highlight on frosh as well :p
17:13<chillcore>okidoki ;)
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17:14<frosch123>no idea, tomorrow? i already wanted to do it "tomorrow" two weeks ago though :p
17:14<chillcore>hehe ... tomorrow is fine ... it is just that my shedule may or may not become rather hectic in the comming weeks
17:14<@Alberth>it's a great list, I would even go further and allow people to disable projects from showing in the list entirely
17:15<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/poltrams.png <-- profile page only says "no access"
17:15-!-DanMacK [~4618986f@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<frosch123>nah, "hiding" will confuse people
17:16<frosch123>this way, they have a reason at least
17:16<@Alberth>fair enough :)
17:17<frosch123>anyway, we cannot show the "no access" on the language overview page
17:17<frosch123>if you meant that
17:17<frosch123>only the profile page can do that by always requireing login
17:18<frosch123>but the language page is public, so you cannot tell who is accessing it, with the way we do logins
17:18<@Alberth>ok, so I wouldn't be able to make a dutch translation for PolTrams currently?
17:18<frosch123>exactly
17:18<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/poltrams <- it is very restrictive
17:19<frosch123>no idea why
17:19<frosch123>but author's choice is author's choice
17:19<@Alberth>looks like the regular translators to me, for a subset of languages
17:19<@Alberth>assuming you didn't apply for poltrams :p
17:20<frosch123>hmm, oh wait... actually "polroad" and "poltrams" are not subprojects of newgrf
17:20<frosch123>so the "inherit members" does not work
17:20<frosch123>maybe the author was just tired of having to add all groups manually
17:21<@Alberth>seems fair enough
17:21<frosch123>also "2cc bus set" and "uk town names" are no subprojects
17:23<frosch123>well, i moved it, but it is not set to inherit members either, that's something the author has to do though
17:25<@Alberth>gn
17:25<@Alberth>chillcore: thanks for the link
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17:28<frosch123>i wish the projects page was collapsable
17:29<frosch123>so hard to see what projects are not subprojects
17:32<chillcore>Alberth: You are welcome. Fun fact that vid was posted around the time I struggled with that and mentioned something on the forum. there is this other vid too that talks about someones favorite primes smaller then 1000 where I got some cool results too.
17:32<chillcore>The sad thing is I keep forgetting these peeps' names. except for Brady's who makes the vids
17:34<chillcore>there is also ComputerPhile which has stuff on things you will be already familiar with ... still very intersting for me and relaxing as background 'noise'.
17:35<chillcore>Maybe I will go back to shool someday hehe.
17:35<chillcore>^^^ wishfull thinking
17:36<frosch123>what do you want at school?
17:36<frosch123>i learned all the interesting things outside school
17:36<chillcore>I tried that once ... but I was working in shifts too and after two months I could not cope no more ... working the night and then shool or going to shool and then the late one
17:37<chillcore>frosh: me too ... but I have no degree whatsoever ... except an A3 mechanics which is worth as good as nothing these days ... you get that at 16 here (15 before)
17:38<chillcore>see I'd love to get into the IT industry ... but yeah
17:38<chillcore>they see this dimwit with a degree and then me so they pick him ...
17:39<chillcore>if you know what I mean ...
17:39<chillcore>thought about doing something myself but no capital to start
17:39<chillcore>then again what could I do that has not been done before?
17:40<chillcore>I do not want to rip peeps of like some do
17:40<chillcore>eg candy crush and the likes
17:40<chillcore>though about asking donations and doing full time OpenTTD ... is that even feasabl?
17:40<frosch123>a mechanic? so, at least you can treaten computers with disassembling them, if they act weird :)
17:41<chillcore>not really that kind of mechanic
17:41<frosch123>full time ottd would no longer be ottd
17:41<chillcore>although I am not afraid to dig into that stuffs too
17:41<chillcore>indeed
17:41<frosch123>i wondered whether ottd should hire someone to work on the wiki/manual full time :p
17:42<chillcore>you've got my nr ... hehe
17:43<chillcore>I don't see myself doing youtube vids ...
17:44<frosch123>if you feel lucky :p
17:44<chillcore>I've got an appointment this week for help with finding work ... got this prob with my back (10 kg max) and my eyes and it is hard to find something decent
17:44<frosch123>i mean if you play poker, you can predent at least to have some influence :p
17:44<chillcore>still got hope though
17:45<chillcore>poker hehe
17:45-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:46<chillcore>no more gambling for me. I was independant may years ago and I am still paying ... bloody interest. should have declared myself bankrupt but I was young and I just stopped when I saw I was not going where I wanted
17:46<chillcore>many*
17:46<chillcore>anyhoo ... I'll know more this week
17:47<frosch123>good luck :)
17:47-!-Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/]
17:47<chillcore>thx.
17:47<chillcore>also full time OpenTTD ... would not be a hobby anymore so ...
17:48<frosch123>you cannot put ottd into the iStore, which is the only platform that makes money of shitty games
17:49<chillcore>maybe I could try and go save Godus ... :P
17:49<chillcore>hehe I has a copy ... bad graphics though ... wrong palette
17:49<V453000>I solve full time openttd simply
17:49<V453000>going to work and doing openttd stuff there 50% of the time :P
17:51<chillcore>^^^openttd I mean ... it is called Transport Bussiness but they did not change the credits. lol
17:51<chillcore>I think it is still there if you search multiple times
17:52<chillcore>nice one V453000.
17:52<V453000>^^
17:53<frosch123>certainly better than smoknig 50% of the time
17:53<frosch123>unless that's the other 50% V does
17:53<chillcore>hihi
17:53<V453000>XD
17:54<V453000>no, the other 50% I actually work my ass off to make deadlines - totally not because the month before that I spent with openttd graphics
17:55<V453000>but it is great, I learn so many new things all the time
17:55<chillcore>at work or doing OpenTTD?
17:55<V453000>I read some job requirements for vehicle 3D artists in czech ... if I keep this up I might get a job like that :)
17:55<V453000>doing openttd graphics at work chillcore ... instead of actually working
17:56<chillcore>I sees. I never had a job where I had that luxury ... except once ... quality control at Volvo. they had just started the v60 production and we did aprox. 60 cars a shift
17:57<chillcore>man that was boring
17:57<V453000>I even render at work over night :P
17:58<frosch123>the level-1 support hot line works are mostly heavy smokers
17:58<chillcore>Volvo Belgium that is ... but I was extern and could not stay. then they hired on the one condition you had to have the same job for three years and willing to abondon it ... crazy swedes
17:58<frosch123>waiting half of the day outside with the phone in case someone calls
17:58<frosch123>then a lot of hectic and trouble if someone calls
17:58<frosch123>and then back to boredom and smoking
17:59<frosch123>i do not fancy them
17:59<chillcore>I can imagine ... I did sudokus to keep me busy there
17:59<chillcore>boring too after 20 ... :P
18:00<frosch123>it's even worse on friday
18:00<frosch123>the hotline is defined to be available from 8-18, but all the public customers close down at 12, so noone ever calls friday afternoon :p
18:01<V453000>I regularly stay at work longer during the week and gtfo on friday ASAP
18:01<V453000>my friday is like monday^2
18:01<V453000>idk why
18:01<frosch123>i do it the reverse
18:01<V453000>XD
18:01<V453000>anyway
18:01<frosch123>try to leave early during the week, and stay longer on friday when noone bothers you
18:01<V453000>gnight
18:01<V453000>hm :)
18:02<chillcore>hmm 8-18 ... muy previous ISP changed their hours a bit ... instead of all day between 14 and 16. then they got themselves in a bit of troub and noone could get in because evryone called at 14 sgarp
18:02<chillcore>gn
18:02<frosch123>last year i even considered switching saturday/sunday with wednesday/thursday
18:02<V453000>XD
18:02<V453000>nice idea
18:03<frosch123>but i managed to turn down some of the most-annoying interuptions
18:03<frosch123>also the alarm is annoying
18:03<frosch123>there is a movement direction right out of my offie
18:03<chillcore>alarm?
18:03<frosch123>so i cannot leave to grab drinks reps. get rid of them again, without annoying the neighbourhood
18:04<chillcore>ah like that ...
18:04<frosch123>s/direction/detection/
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18:05<chillcore>hehe reminds me ... one day at Volvo I decided to take some fresh air so I went to the door and smoked a sig just outside of it ... not even 2 mins later security camme to check me out
18:05<frosch123>yeah, but otherwise it is great, only the watchman greets you every 3 hours or so :p
18:05<chillcore>hop back inside ... "You can smoke there too"
18:05<andythenorth>Pikka bob, SARS innit
18:06<andythenorth>what me and Dan are doing
18:07<andythenorth>V453000: you should get a job working on Euro Truck Simulator :P
18:07<andythenorth>I think it’s Czech, maybe
18:07<andythenorth>also highly realisms
18:08<frosch123>factorio is made in prague
18:08<frosch123>but their artist is spannish or so
18:08<andythenorth>http://www.scssoft.com/contact.php
18:09<chillcore>frosh: what would that someone need doing on the wiki? maintenance or translations or ... ?
18:10<andythenorth>accuracy
18:10<frosch123>no idea :) maybe delete stuff :p half of the wiki is out-dated
18:10<chillcore>also lead coder on godus is spanish now
18:11<frosch123>if i visit a random page of the wiki, it usually contains incorrect information
18:11<andythenorth>best thing for wiki would be an unrecoverable data loss
18:11<andythenorth>like a total HD failure
18:11<andythenorth>which also writes junk over the backups
18:11<chillcore>frosh: hmm yeah we should stop developing :P
18:12<chillcore>hmm I used to make changes here and there from time to time ... then life happened
18:14<chillcore>Is editing anonymouse still allowed? don't think I ever created an accutn for it ... is it the same account as flyspray?
18:14<frosch123>no, we disabled anonymous editing
18:14<frosch123>it was the best solution against spam
18:14<chillcore>then I remembered correctly
18:14<frosch123>no bot managed yet to hop through the ottd registration mayhem :)
18:15<frosch123>on the plus side, the main page is no longer protected :)
18:15<chillcore>ye got me in a bit of an e-fight once ... some douche that was deleting the compile pages because it did not work for him
18:16<chillcore>while he was deleting I was restoring and after 6 times or so he left a message "who is reverting my changes"
18:16<chillcore>then he got kicked by one of you
18:16<frosch123>anyway, all on openttd.org is same account
18:17<frosch123>you need three accounts in the ttd world :) openttd.org, tt-forums.net and openttdcoop.org
18:17<frosch123>all the other pages belong to either of them
18:17<frosch123>like tt-wiki/newgrf-specs to forums, and devzone to coop
18:18<chillcore>then I have all three of them ... that is if openttd.org is the one for flyspray too
18:18<Wolf01>chillcore, I'll find you and kill you once I recover from the numberphile videos :D
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18:18<chillcore>Wolf: he?
18:19<chillcore>you watched all of them?
18:19<chillcore>click channels ...
18:19<Wolf01>I think I'll do
18:20<chillcore>but yeah pretty good stuffs and nicely explained
18:21<Wolf01>studied almost all of them, it's nice to remember and understand the concepts again
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18:22<andythenorth>bye
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18:23<chillcore>most is new to me ... is what happens when you abandon at 15 ... they should have slapped me silly and sent me back in a straightjacket
18:23<chillcore>but like mentioned by frosh ... I too learned most stuffs outside shool
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18:31*chillcore wonders what would be easier ... setting up compile env. for windows 8.1 or crosscompiling (which I have no clue how to do)
18:33<chillcore>Also should scripts be allowed to generate custom terrain? <- API
18:33<chillcore>choices choices ...
18:35<chillcore>Wolf01: before you kill me there is also numberphile2 :P
18:35<Wolf01>argh!
18:36<Wolf01>I'll kill you twice
18:36<chillcore>good
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18:37<frosch123>yexo once tried to generate maps via squirrel, but decided that it will be too slow in any case
18:37<Wolf01>I don't know at which hour I'll go to bed this night, maybe I should do it now as I can still think about it
18:38<Wolf01>some more videos and I'll forget I need to sleep, some more I might forget to breathe
18:38<chillcore>frosh: ok ... just wonderingas when I removerd the smoothness from the worldgen gui I also removed the Api stuffs and have not yet replaced with the new tgen_smoothness
18:39<chillcore>^^^ still works with the old code as the original setting is unchanged
18:39<chillcore>except for adding custom
18:40<chillcore>I need a mind reading keyboard ... one that does not have dyslectic 'fingers' :P
18:41<chillcore>the prob is that now everything is generated and them loops take time
18:41<chillcore>with that patch I have it is just terrain ... rivers seem to take longest
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18:42<chillcore>then again I have them configered much longer as default ... could be that
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18:47<frosch123>night
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18:53<chillcore>alberth: frosh: anyone: fs#6208 reminds me of something I saw in scenario editor too .. tooltips and moving guis about in scenarioeditor leave artifacts too. very faint but they are there
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19:13<chillcore>goodnight
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20:29<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Feb 08 00:00:03 2015