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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-12

---Logopened Thu Feb 12 00:00:09 2015
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02:06<V453000>OH FFS SIN COS TAN WTF
02:07<V453000>making camera position x2 doesnt mean I can /2 the FOV :D
02:11<V453000>meth sucks
02:12<V453000>surprisingly the "correct value" is very close to the assumed x2
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03:54<@peter1138>8KB bug... lol
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04:33<V453000>lol and I was wondering why bridges take so long to render
04:33<V453000>I used x16 zoom resolution XD
04:36<V453000>rendering test sprites now :)
04:36<@planetmaker>we totally should introduce 16x zoom in openttd ;)
04:36<@planetmaker>especially for the gui
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05:02<V453000>boatload of sprites is a boatload of sprites.
05:04<Diablo-D3>peter1138: I had a hilarious one earlier
05:04<Diablo-D3>peter1138: photoshop wouldnt open files
05:04<Diablo-D3>file->new nothing
05:04<Diablo-D3>file->open, dialog opens, select file, nothing
05:04<Diablo-D3>drag file into it, nothing
05:04<Diablo-D3>double click a psd, nothing
05:04<Diablo-D3>uninstalled photoshop, reinstalled, didnt fix it
05:04<Diablo-D3>uninstalled photoshop, uninstalled CC, reinstalled both, didnt fix it
05:04<@planetmaker>it's not like adobe produces quality software
05:05<Diablo-D3>uninstalled, uninstalled, rebooted, then reinstalled finally fucking fixed it
05:05<@planetmaker>so it's totally no surprise :)
05:05<Diablo-D3>and before you ask, just rebooting didnt fix it before I went down the uninstall hole
05:05<V453000>I use adobe software for everything and it works 100% fine for me .
05:05<Diablo-D3>fucking pissed me off, I hate rebooting
05:09<V453000>I would like to hear your suggested (better) equivalents
05:09<V453000>coding-wise mayhaps, but actually using the programs ...
05:10<Diablo-D3>there isnt a better alternative
05:10<Diablo-D3>otherwise I'd be using it
05:10<Diablo-D3>thank god I dont need to use the rest of their shit
05:10<Diablo-D3>dreamweaver? lol fuck that, I know html and css.
05:10<V453000>so basically all software is shit
05:11<V453000>well I use mainly photoshop/after effects/illustrator/indesign/lightroom and all of those together work great
05:12<@planetmaker>V453000, I was talking coding wise. And it's not like adobe flash isn't the biggest threat to computers currently
05:12<@planetmaker>thus similar can probably be assumed for everything they do: shiny on the surface. but build on rubble-pile foundations
05:12<V453000>coding wise I can give no input :) but for using, it is good
05:15<V453000>especially when I do everything from bitmap graphics, vector graphics, video postproduction, 3D postproduction, print document stuff, ... since all of the relevant formats simply fit together, user interface is similar, in general they work similar, some functions are even the same
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05:39<supermop>hmm give an 80s style to the 70s tram and a 70s style to the 80s tram?
05:39<supermop>im thinking yes
05:40<supermop>or give the 80s style to the 50s tram, 50s style to the 70s tram etc etc
05:41<supermop>no no the 50s style belongs on the 2010s tram
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05:48<supermop>those are what i am thinking for those three generations
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06:43<V453000>heyoo supermop
06:43<V453000>interesting, taking inspiration from totally other things :)
06:45<supermop>sort of
06:45<supermop>this idea iss running away from me
06:45<supermop>but now i get to practice creating and rendering glossy plastic textures
06:46<supermop>which i never did in school studying architecture - unlike all the industrial design kids who did almost only glossy plastic
06:47<supermop>i really want this articulated tram to have the style of both the colorful glossy round of 70s braun gear, and the hard edge matte grey of 80s braun gear...
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06:49<V453000>well, in general glossy stuff doesnt look that great in orthographic projection I think
06:49<V453000>since the rays just go very uniformly
06:49<V453000>but yeah :) go try :)
06:50<supermop>the 80s gear feels so much more in character for this tram but i think the articulated section could be more fun with the 70s style
06:51<supermop>i wonder about placing objects or buildings in scene, or an image that is reflected but not rendered
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06:52<supermop>how are you doing windows?
06:52<supermop>i guess from above they would just reflect the street not the sky
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07:00<V453000>well yeah
07:00<V453000>I just add some reflective material and am pretty done with it
07:00<V453000>didnt do many windows yet :)
07:00<V453000>for trains I just use textures
07:00<V453000>no reflections
07:00<V453000>I think that even with some HRDI maps for environment, it doesnt look good either because of the orthographic reflections
07:01<V453000>if you just want specular highlights, that should be fine
07:04<supermop> hmm want to incorporate something like those metal struts at the rear
07:04<supermop>maybe run along the roof or something
07:05<V453000>hm :)
07:05<@planetmaker>yes, coffee machines and office buildings are just the same :)
07:06<supermop>trams planetmaker !
07:06<supermop>....... Dieter Trams
07:07<supermop>*crickets chirping at lame design joke*
07:07<supermop>but seriously, that is the name of this tram set
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>"the tram producer also makes coffee machines" is a very... socialistic... approach :p
07:07<raincomplex>i love this channel
07:08<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: in an openttd world i would not find it surprising
07:08<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, like the rubber boot company producing mobile phones?
07:09<supermop>after accruing trillions of dollars where every village is at your mercy, i imagine you'd control the coffee machine market as well
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>in east germany there were lots of instances like "we have a shortage of leather jackets. the steel manufacturer is now in charge of making leather jackets."
07:10<supermop>"Would you like to exclusively test the Floss 47 Hot Water Kettle for a year"?
07:10<@planetmaker> <-- interesting result for leather steel jacket. supermob^Wsuperman beware ;)
07:10<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: shortage of leather jackets? it seems like steel would be more important to a controlled economy???
07:12<@planetmaker>but honestly, supermop, I thought you were doing a building set? Or is that retired?
07:12<supermop>no its still going but a set of 5 or so trams is me sticking my toes in the water
07:13<@planetmaker>I see :)
07:13<supermop>i have not textured or rendered any house models yet and still collect ideas for it but at the moment the task feels much too large
07:13<supermop>so try to do something small first
07:14<@peter1138>that coffee machine... looks like a piece of lego
07:17<supermop>i am so jealous of you germans ... this old braun gear fetches hundreds or thousands in the US but i've heard can often be found cheaply at junk shops and yard sales there...
07:18<supermop>peter1138: a few years ago i bought the matching grinder on and had it shipped to new york .. the coffee machine itself was too expensive
07:18<@planetmaker>what you talking about? (coffee machines?)
07:19<supermop>coffee machines yes - the later white ones are common in the us but those 70s ones are very rare
07:19<supermop>but mostly the braun hifi gear - almost none was made for the us market
07:19<@planetmaker>might be a problem with voltage then :)
07:19<@planetmaker>they run badly when fed only 1/4 of the power :)
07:20<supermop>myself and colleagues have looked into or even purchased 60hz-50hz ac converters to run german turntables on us power
07:21<supermop>everything else runs fine on 120V but the records go too fast of course
07:21<supermop>coffee grinder grinding too fast does not bother me
07:22<supermop>that requires transformer though
07:22<supermop>of course now i live with 50hz 220V, but it is far too expensive to ship to australia from EU
07:24<V453000>SHINY BRIDGES =D
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07:24<V453000>fun part is that the first biggest line is just bridge heads :D
07:25<V453000>every other category is smaller
07:26*planetmaker fails to see any bridges. Just crushed, colourful cardboard boxes
07:27<V453000>those are bridges pm
07:28<V453000>oh FVCK
07:29<V453000>I just realized roads change with climate
07:29<V453000>asdf ass
07:29<@planetmaker>yes yes
07:29<V453000>ok, so the red tiles should be there x4 :P
07:29<V453000>hmhmhm asdf
07:30<supermop>later all
07:30<V453000>my infrastructure was not ready for this XD
07:31<V453000> /inconvenient
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07:33<V453000>I guess making tracks to differ with climates would be nice eventually as well
07:34<@planetmaker>possible, yes
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>you mean sleeper colour depends on what wood is used? :p
07:35<V453000>kind of :) they can be entirely different Eddi
07:35<V453000>the sprites have to be defined anyway
07:35<V453000>and changing the model in each instance group is not that much work
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07:38<V453000>well then :D
08:05<V453000>fuck, that is a lot of stuff :D
08:07<Diablo-D3>[07:29:00] <V453000> I just realized roads change with climate
08:08<Diablo-D3>I still kinda wish we had really really tall maps
08:08<Diablo-D3>like 2 or 3x the height we have now
08:08<Diablo-D3>so temperate could fade into alpine
08:08<Diablo-D3>complete with changes in the economy
08:08<Diablo-D3>which could lead to hilarious citybuilder games that require EEVVERYYYTTHIIING
08:09<V453000>I wonder if I want to define even all rail bridges per-climate
08:10<V453000>wait do actually road bridges change with climate
08:10<V453000>I dont think they do
08:10<@planetmaker>V453000, if you make the tracks per climate: then that's somewhat a necessity
08:10<V453000>well sure that is talking eventually :)
08:11<V453000>right so I suppose a base set does not replace road bridges variously in various climates except toyland, but I guess when I have dirt roads in tropic, adding asphalt bridges is just retarded
08:12<V453000>zbase has all roads the same which is hideous
08:13<V453000>ogfx too ._.
08:13<Diablo-D3>V453000: I think road bridges do change with climate
08:13<Diablo-D3>at least some grfs do it
08:13<Diablo-D3>when they have interesting roads
08:13<V453000>they always have dashes
08:13<V453000>well newgrfs
08:13<V453000>but base sets
08:13<@planetmaker>Diablo-D3, we're not interested in what newgrfs do
08:14<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: at least it can be done =P
08:14<Diablo-D3>it'd be nice if base did it too
08:14<@planetmaker>they can
08:14<Diablo-D3>question, does ANYONE use toyland? ever? at all?
08:15*planetmaker does
08:15<Diablo-D3>whats the draw in it?
08:15<V453000>it is fun?
08:15<Diablo-D3>like, Ive never seen a server use it
08:16<V453000>our servers use it often
08:16<V453000>perhaps not as often as the other climates, but often.
08:16<Diablo-D3>which is your servers?
08:17<Diablo-D3>ahh, you're that guy?
08:17<V453000>depends on definition of that guy
08:18<Diablo-D3>its either too late in the day or too early in the morning to define it.
08:19<V453000>not like that makes sense
08:20<V453000>regardless, I dont see why would you not use toyland
08:20<Diablo-D3>Ive never seen anyone play toyland
08:21<V453000>especially since you can alter it with some landcape newgfrfs, trees, even infrastructure or industries and vehicles
08:21<Diablo-D3>its always temperate, desert, or alpine, in that order
08:21<V453000>stations work there as well
08:21<Diablo-D3>I actually like alpine a lot
08:21<Diablo-D3>its the best looking one of the bunch
08:23<V453000>add newgrfs and all are equal :)
08:23<@planetmaker>V453000, actually I don't understand why OpenGFX doesn't provide special bridge support in tropical climate. The sprites are there for bridges w/o the road markings
08:23<@planetmaker>but I don't see them used, tbh. At least not in the code. Not checking ingame now
08:23*Diablo-D3 should run an openttd server, so no one will connect to it ever :<
08:24<@planetmaker>doing per-climate stuff is easy in base sets, V453000: just add replace blocks for sprites in the extra grf of the base set, querying the climate
08:24<@planetmaker>that's legal for base sets
08:24<@planetmaker>basically like rawr does now
08:24<V453000>right :)
08:24<V453000>I was already on the way with that approach
08:24<V453000>duplicated everything, everything possible on per-climate basis
08:24<@planetmaker>one could probably do even like put blank sprites in all 5 grfs and only use extra grf :P
08:25<Diablo-D3>like, do people hate industry replacement grfs?
08:25<@planetmaker>excep recolour sprites
08:25<Diablo-D3>theres like, what, 3 servers that offer it? and no one is ever on it?
08:25<V453000>Diablo-D3: you mean the tons of servers with FIRS with tons of people?
08:25<Diablo-D3>I wonder if my openttd is broken
08:26<Diablo-D3>because I never see people on those servers
08:26<@planetmaker>yes, YETI became enslaved in FIRS ports by the ECS economy
08:26<Diablo-D3>it always says 0/xx
08:26<V453000>planetmaker: can a bridge detect if it is in a desert or in the jungle though?
08:26<@planetmaker>V453000, nope
08:26<V453000>exactly :)
08:26<Diablo-D3>wait, a bridge cant, but the roads can?
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08:26<V453000>bridge can detect height
08:27<Diablo-D3>but height doesnt define jungle
08:27<V453000>exactly :)
08:27<V453000>it is nice with snow
08:27<V453000>I dont think a base set can do that like swedish tracks though
08:27<Diablo-D3>sometimes ttd is too clever.
08:28<Diablo-D3>afk, still work left to do
08:28<@planetmaker>V453000, a track set can do (a bit) more than base sets
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08:28<V453000>that I understand but -howmuch- :D
08:29<@planetmaker>query position, query height
08:29<@planetmaker>as base set you can only provide bridges totally agnostic of the terrain. But a track set cannot change that either
08:30<@planetmaker>BUT! A track set gets its own tracks drawn on the bridges
08:30<@planetmaker>thus it can draw them snowy on bridges
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08:34<V453000>ah right
08:35<V453000>cause railtypes
08:35<Diablo-D3>will base ever have useful ships?
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08:36<V453000>any ships have infinite throughput?
08:36<Diablo-D3>I dunno, I just kinda wish ottd had legitimate ship play
08:36<V453000>but how would it be interesting
08:36<V453000>you send ship A to point B
08:36<Diablo-D3>like, you build large docks and each ship takes up a spot on the dock
08:36<Diablo-D3>and ships would be larger
08:36<V453000>you do it 1920438 times because you have 120838 ships
08:36<Diablo-D3>much larger
08:37<Diablo-D3>not hold more
08:37<V453000>so you would need complete new ship pathfinding, new docks, new ships
08:37<Diablo-D3>just be larger
08:37<V453000>good luck :)
08:37<Diablo-D3>V453000: yeah =/
08:37<Diablo-D3>oh well
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08:41<samu>how does terraforming work internally
08:41<Diablo-D3>V453000: is it wrong to want better ships?
08:41<samu>is it like a domino effect?
08:42<@planetmaker>is fish or squid
08:42<V453000>but what do you want done better Diablo-D3 ? :D and how
08:42<V453000>how will bigger dock or bigger ship help
08:42<V453000>it will still be primitive
08:43<V453000>if you were to control them then you would probably need some control system like tracks
08:43<V453000>presumable some e.g. edit mode for ship routes which you could then disable and see only normal water
08:43<V453000>but that sounds like it is going way out of scope
08:43<samu>if i lower a corner which requires subsequent corners to be lowered as well, what will the game do to get there? i want to understand a bit about terraform logic
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>samu: it loops over the adjacent tiles until it finds one that it can terraform
08:44<Diablo-D3>V453000: openttd is scale broken beyond belief, but most if it I can buy....
08:44<Diablo-D3>V453000: but ships are just ... wrong.
08:44<Diablo-D3>V453000: too small, 100+ ships at a tiny 2x1 dock, etc etc etc
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>samu: look in the appropriate *_cmd.cpp file for the "command" functions
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>in this case probably landscape_cmd.cpp
08:48<samu>thx, I will look into that. i have in my mind a "devious" idea, probably nightmarish code-wise to make river-tiles terraformable, it will need to change some terraform rules for it to work´~
08:56<samu>oh yes!
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09:17<V453000>Diablo-D3: sure but solving it is immense amount of effort for no real gain
09:18<V453000>you either have to rely on others to be so interested in the issue, to do the work for you, or do it yourself
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09:25<samu>okay, where do I start, I have to explain the idea from the beginning
09:26<@planetmaker>samu, best by making sure you can compile openttd from source
09:26<@planetmaker>then start making modifcations. And then present a patch
09:26<samu>basically, in english words: I want the game to let me terraform river tiles
09:27<@planetmaker>no change for that needed. you can simply destroy and terraform them
09:27<samu>raising land where a river tile is located however will be the nightmare that has to be solved
09:28<samu>because i want the river to be kept intact
09:28<V453000>has to be solved is a nice word
09:28<samu>that can only be possible with some "automated" terraforming, and switching river tiles
09:29<samu>there's however a "puzzle" in my mind which I'm not sure if it can be solved
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09:30<DanMacK>Hey all
09:30<samu>to raise a river
09:30<samu>it cannot have a slope
09:31<samu>well, it can actually, but those diagonal slopes are a no
09:31<@planetmaker>make that change
09:32<samu>i really have to draw
09:32<samu>too hard to explain
09:33<samu>i can see it being possible, except for some automated decisions given a flat river tile
09:33<samu>it cannot decide on its own
09:34<samu>imagine a flat lake
09:34<samu>sized, hmm for example 5x5
09:34<samu>if I raise land in the center of that
09:34<samu>the game won't know what to do
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09:35<samu>it could go in two directions
09:35<V453000>it is pretty consistent now :) keep that
09:36<samu>to maintain river consistency, it can raise vertically or horizontally
09:36<samu>all the adjacent tiles on that corner could go either way
09:36<samu>this is the problem I think that cannot be decided by the game
09:37<samu>automated terraforming in this situation is my dilema, what would you do?
09:37<samu>two possible outcomes which the game can't guess
09:38<V453000>I would keep it as it is
09:38<samu>gonna draw this example, brb
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09:40<Diablo-D3>[09:17:20] <V453000> Diablo-D3: sure but solving it is immense amount of effort for no real gain
09:40<Diablo-D3>[09:18:40] <V453000> you either have to rely on others to be so interested in the issue, to do the work for you, or do it yourself
09:41<Diablo-D3>V453000: well I imagine even if I do fix it, it'll be relegated to an option which no server will turn on
09:41<V453000>if your setting is good and popular, why would no server run on it
09:41<Diablo-D3>because of the amount of inertia this community has
09:41<Diablo-D3>they hate change
09:42<@planetmaker>whining would have no foundation then anymore, V453000
09:42<V453000>not really
09:42<Diablo-D3>V453000: I dunno, Ive seen some forum threads that were bitchfests
09:42<@planetmaker>Diablo-D3, it's easy to *talk* about change. It's much more difficult to actually *make change happen*. Go and start with the latter. Let us see patches
09:42<V453000>also, a lot of the effort put into this game is for their own "how they like it to look"
09:42<V453000>for example my NewGRFs are only used by handful of people, yet I enjoy making them?
09:42<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: I'd honestly rather just buy the damned feature.
09:42<@planetmaker>let us see NewGRFs, let us see game scripts.
09:43<V453000>go buy a person to code it for you XD
09:44<V453000>I mean, really, those are your options. :)
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09:49<samu>okay that's the lake in it's original form
09:49<V453000>I will just proceed ignoring you
09:50<samu>if i raise land at that white dot
09:50<V453000>rivers go boom and puppies go cry
09:50<samu>there would be two possible outcomes, which cannot be decided by the game
09:50<samu>the outcomes are in the next image
09:50<samu>you can navigate it
09:52<samu>terraforming can be drag and drop, right?
09:52<V453000>that looks even more like a hack than locks XD
09:52<DanMacK>V453000 - Just saw your comment, that's how I do it... lol
09:53<DanMacK>I draw stuff I need in my games, lol
09:53<samu>if i can tell the the raise corner tool which direction to raise corners, by indicating two dots
09:53<samu>it can decide
09:53<V453000>yes DanMacK
09:53<samu>but i don't know if this can be done
09:53<V453000>just like everybody else :)
09:53<samu>if it can be coded that way
09:53<Diablo-D3>V453000, planetmaker: so whats the correct way to make a lake out of nothing?
09:54<V453000>none? :D
09:54<LordAro>samu: it already is?
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09:55<samu>i'm not really sure if you undestand what I am asking
09:55<samu>to decide which outcome, only 1 corner won't do it
09:56<samu>it needs at least 2 corners in drag and drop style
09:56<samu>so, to indicate which direction
09:57<samu>then, if it knows the direction, all the next river tiles that go towards that direction
09:57<LordAro>oh, i see
09:57<samu>will be terraformed accordingly
09:57<LordAro>you want lakes to be subject to terraforming as well
09:57<LordAro>yeah, that's a bit tricky
09:57<samu>yes yes :)
09:58<samu>there's only 5 shapes for river tiles
09:59<samu>have to work with what exists
09:59<samu>gonna draw them
10:00<Gregor_>i installed the 1.5 beta over my 1.4.4 and now it says that my currently used graphics set misses some sprites and i should get a development version of the graphics set as well, but there isnt any as far as i know.
10:01<@planetmaker>there's none in online content. is
10:01<@planetmaker>unzip and place it in the 'baseset' folder of your openttd install
10:02<Gregor_>thx will do that
10:04<Gregor_>worked!!! thank you ^^
10:04<samu>the C shape, flat one, is the most troublesome to automate
10:04<samu>because of decision
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10:08<samu>if i lower a single corner in either NW NE SE SW, the terraforming tool will automate the lowering corner of the adjacent tile, and all these tiles would turn to C C C C
10:09<@planetmaker>wonderful, Gregor_ :)
10:09<samu>going from C to any of the others however... needs direction, drag and drop terraform
10:10<samu>and that is... the big question, can it be done in code?
10:13<samu>i can already see it being trouble for the scenario editor terraforming tool
10:13<samu>it doesn't allow drag and drop
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10:16<@planetmaker>you could start with implementing just that: drag&drop in the SE. would be a good 1st patch. you learn to know the relevant code
10:16<@planetmaker>and you then can see how to get on further
10:18<samu>oh, point me to the right direction :p
10:19<samu>I need to edit a file that is related to scenario editor
10:20<samu>terraforming as 1x1 dot
10:20<samu>could allow
10:20<samu>drag & drop
10:20<samu>not sure about the others
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10:29<samu>unable to connect to a repository at
10:30<samu>oh crap, nevermind
10:30<samu>it's svn://
10:38<@planetmaker>use hg ;)
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10:43<NGC3982>I just tried something spectacular
10:44<NGC3982>I used my girlfriends new (fast) computer, started a 4098^2 game with a full list of aggressive AI's, hit the speedup button and minimized it for five hours.
10:45<NGC3982>The map looks like the real world in The Matrix.
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>there is a real world in the matrix?
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11:06<samu>where are the vertices
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11:07-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
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11:08<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
11:08<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 6 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <andythenorth> ho bedtime
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11:10<samu>I'm looking at autoslope.h file
11:11<samu>seems that I need to create something similar to this
11:11-!-zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
11:13<samu>or maybe this isn't it
11:13<samu>I get so lost when I look at the game code
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>samu: "autoslope" is what creates the foundations if you terraform near a house etc.
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11:16<samu>yeah, this isn't it
11:16<Diablo-D3>[11:00:37] <Eddi|zuHause> there is a real world in the matrix?
11:17<Diablo-D3>well, if you're stuck in a world you cannot taste, smell, see, hear, or touch
11:17<Diablo-D3>would it not be the real world?
11:18<@Alberth>exactly why we won't find around 99% of alien life
11:19<samu>can I make a deal? I come up with the whole idea described in a document, instead of trying to change game code, because honestly, I really don't know where to begin.
11:20<@Alberth>spend 1/2 a year reading code, and trying to change it, mostly
11:21<@Alberth>then in a year, you start to understand what is actually feasible
11:21<samu>the files in svn looks like they're using another language. It's related to nml but not really the same
11:21<@Alberth>perhaps you should first read and code arbitrary stuff in c++
11:21<samu>what lol
11:22<samu>c++ is what's in svn?
11:22<@Alberth>it doesn't "looks like another language", it is another language, a very different one, even
11:22<samu>wel, there you go, I never coded
11:23<samu>i just put stuff together and hope that the puzzle works
11:23<samu>that's how i worked on the nmls
11:23<@Alberth>it looked that way, yeah
11:24<@Alberth>which works for relatively small and simple problems
11:36<samu>looking at the cargo refit table at nml site
11:53<Gregor_>ok i´m happy nice big mountains you can just build tunnels and play the swiss way ^^
11:56<samu>this looks to be the thing :)
11:56<@Alberth>doesn't look like cargo refit table :)
11:57<samu>so im investigating
11:58<samu>well, rivers must be out of that place
11:58<@Alberth>that's fine :)
11:58<samu>they have to behave like part of the landscape
11:58<samu>so, landscape tile type, does that exist?
11:59<samu>not canal
11:59<@Alberth>it exists
12:00<@Alberth>canal is a form of water
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>you should probably start by defining that water tiles do not get cleared when terraformed
12:01<samu>where is the water object thingy and all its properties at?
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>(and then you immediately run into the problem that rivers/canals are not defined for all slope combinations)
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>samu: the map does not consist of objects
12:01<samu>ah map
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>samu: maybe start at docs/landscape.html
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12:03<samu>thanks, i found it
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12:14<Gregor_>good bye and have fun ^^
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12:30<@Alberth>hi hi
12:37-!-chillcore [~chillcore@] has joined #openttd
12:38<chillcore>hello all
12:38<samu>"Game entities".
12:38<samu>11 "water" owns the tile
12:39<chillcore>hi Alberth
12:40<frosch123>hola kids
12:40<samu>is there a difference between sea, river and canal? is it what i think it is?
12:41<@planetmaker>there is. But I don't know what you think
12:41<samu>if water is sea -> it floods nearby tiles?
12:41<chillcore>frosch ... mind if I remind you af them fixes? or can I review somewhere what you will be committing somewhere just looking for something to change my mind a bit.?
12:42<frosch123>it's still the patchqueue from the forums
12:42<chillcore>and hello tou you too froscha nd planetmaker ;)
12:42<frosch123>i have a list of annotations from ab and rb
12:42<chillcore>ah ok I'll download them in a bit then.
12:42<frosch123>i'll try to get my working copy clean :p
12:42<chillcore>no rush ;)
12:43<samu>im wondering for that piece of code that makes the water to spread
12:43<@planetmaker>hg pull -u && hg strip -r"outgoing()" :P
12:43<@planetmaker>danger, if you have things you want to keep. But cleans thoroughly
12:43<samu>is it water class?
12:43<frosch123>planetmaker: looks helpful :)
12:43<@planetmaker>water class distinguishes water types
12:44<samu>what stops the water from spreading?
12:44<@Alberth>look for "flood" or so?
12:45<@Alberth>but tbh, we don't know the answers to your questions
12:45<frosch123>-0.5°C is usually a good temperatrue
12:45<@Alberth>we also have to look it up
12:45<frosch123>to prevent water from spreading
12:46<@Alberth>less works too :)
12:46<chillcore>hehe flood ... someone thought he had holes in his smallmap when I included a floodwarning colour for level 0 land in my bugpack :P
12:46<samu>okay, so far I figured that rivers, as they are right now, have to be categorized as something else
12:46<@Alberth>chillcore: heh heh :)
12:46<samu>they can't be objects
12:47<samu>they have to be landscape
12:47<frosch123>samu: it's all cargo, ask andy
12:47<samu>right or wrong?
12:49<chillcore>samu: they are ... rivers? never saw a ship sailing along an object.
12:49<samu>arf, the goal is to transform the current river tiles into an equivalent, but which allows them to be terraformable, floodable, and act as level up for floods, also contain the water spread within itself
12:50<chillcore>I have read a bit before joining ... sorry cannot help you with what you want to do
12:50<@planetmaker>I think the concept was once called 'lively rivers', samu. Maybe forums has something on that
12:51<chillcore>^^^ everything you never wanted to know ;)
12:51<@Alberth>and it's still missing parts :)
12:51<chillcore>only about 50%
12:51<samu>flood only works at sea level?
12:52<chillcore>only at level 0 yes
12:52<samu>height level = 0?
12:52<@planetmaker>samu, it only works for water_class SEA
12:52<samu>okay, i need something which allows water to spread into a rivercliff
12:53<samu>gains +1 or -1 height for each rivercliff
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12:53<samu>the flood must be limited to river tiles
12:53<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> -0.5°C is usually a good temperatrue <-- if you're really careful you can get water to like -17°C and it's still liquid
12:53<samu>it cannot spawn on the rest of the land, else it's stupid
12:56<@Alberth>flood running up against the hill, but not flooding the lower land is not stupid?
12:56<samu>it can go +1 and -1
12:56<samu>and also spread to the current level, but it requires tiles with some kind of property that let's it go there
12:57<samu>to confine the spread
12:57<chillcore>hmm ... looking for a better bool name then "_reopen_tgen_gui" ... it is switched on in when clicking generate from tgen gui (1 exception is going to scenarioeditor from main menu)
12:58<@Alberth>_use_tgen_gui ?
12:58<chillcore>hmm not quite ... as it is now you can open tgen gui when creating new game too
12:59<chillcore>the switch is to make a diff in behavvior
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12:59<chillcore>my fault ... the previous line did not include "when clicking generate in scenarioeditor"
13:00<chillcore>but I am not sure if that widow should even exist in new game mode
13:00<chillcore>ye I could go wiith that thx
13:03<samu>sea tile (can spread water), height lvl 0
13:03<samu>where can it go
13:03<chillcore>on level 0 land
13:04<chillcore>^^^ next to sea that is
13:04<chillcore>why would there be water running upstream?
13:04<samu>"rivercliff" - spreads here, adds +1 height, confined by the "rivercliff" own borders
13:05<chillcore>ye then it spreads and reaches the nxt level ... rince, repeat.
13:05<chillcore>Belugas might for once not object to realism?
13:06<samu>next tile to a "rivercliff" is a "river" - spreads here, no change to height, confined by the "river" own borders
13:06<samu>now clearing a river with the bulldozer tool
13:07<samu>it clears the water in it, not the river, and especially not the confinement
13:07<chillcore>oh ou mean canals?
13:07<samu>the water will spread on it again
13:07<chillcore>now you lost me again
13:08<samu>clearing a rivercliff, same thing
13:08<chillcore>you just said it is confined and now you want it to spread?
13:08<samu>clears the water in it, not the rivercliff, and especially not the confinement
13:08<samu>it's like a road route
13:09<samu>which can't be altered in any way or form
13:09<chillcore>hmm ...
13:09<samu>the water can spread there, but not spread to nearby tiles
13:09<samu>the tile must act as the border
13:11<chillcore>define border
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13:11<samu>look at a rivercliff tile, next to a sea and the rest of the river
13:12<chillcore>it is created by having something on the slope
13:12<samu>if the normal behaviour of water is to transform everything into water, then i need to have some sort of safeguard when it is going to spread into rivercliffs and rivers
13:12<chillcore>code does that ... when build on solpes is activated
13:13<chillcore>you can't change that
13:13<chillcore>s solpes/slopes
13:13<samu>ah, it's a slope
13:13<chillcore>you can but have fun coding ... mhl is nothing compared to that
13:14<chillcore>cliffs are slopes yes ... drawn differently
13:14<chillcore>only when build on sopes is activated and the slope has something on it that is not plain terrain
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13:14<chillcore>slopes ...
13:15<chillcore>grabbing new keyboard that is not yet programmed ... only in windoze ..
13:16<samu>canals would work similar to these
13:16<samu>with the difference that when they're destroyed, they're actually destroyed
13:17<samu>rivers aren't, they're only cleared of water
13:17<samu>I'd prefer them to be that way so i can head into the next step
13:17<samu>which is terraforming river tiles
13:18<samu>infrastructure, such as canals, docks, etc.., would all have this confining property
13:19<samu>it "cannalizes" where the water can spread
13:19<samu>these can be objects, right?
13:20<chillcore>sure you can make any object you want looking like anything you want
13:21<chillcore>but having them confineg rivers ... I would not even know where to start
13:21<chillcore>also you would need to have them everywhere river goes
13:21<chillcore>from start to finish
13:22<chillcore>where does dock go? dock is no object it is a station
13:22<samu>ah, dock is fine the way it is right now
13:22<samu>don't touch it
13:22<chillcore>at the end of river is sea ... sea is no object neither
13:23<chillcore>yeah but you do not want your river to keep flooding forever do you?
13:23<samu>oh, you're right
13:23<samu>so it also needs a confine at teh water part
13:24<chillcore>and at dock and that way you close of the river and make it entirely useless
13:24<chillcore>see the point?
13:24<chillcore>you want the impoosible
13:24<chillcore>sorry to burst your bubble
13:24<samu>you build a canal
13:24<chillcore>there may be a way but I have no clue how
13:25<chillcore>canal is not river
13:25<chillcore>and is not sea
13:25<chillcore>try messing with code ... that is how we all learned
13:26<chillcore>no exceptions ... even rubi had to start somewhere
13:27<chillcore>peeps are willing to help but you need to do and ask questions whenever you get stuck?
13:28<chillcore>I do not mean to be rude in any way so I hope you do not take it wrong ;)
13:28<samu>isn't this confinement structure able to behave like a closed road when it reaches the dock tile?
13:28<chillcore>if you program it that way yes
13:28<samu>instead of a vehicle, it's water
13:29<samu>water spreads there, and that where it stops
13:29<samu>no more spreading
13:29<samu>until you attach a canal near the river tile, it would open a new direction
13:30<samu>is it possible to do such thing?
13:30<chillcore>I do not know honestly.
13:32<chillcore>begin at the start ... see if you can make rivers spread without confinment
13:33<chillcore>only then think about the rest
13:33*chillcore suggest small maps to test
13:33-!-kais58|AFK is now known as kais58
13:34<samu>yesterday I talked about lock-friendly rivers, today i come to the conclusion they're not needed if terraforming river tiles become possible
13:35<chillcore>builing rivers is SE only by design
13:36<chillcore>rivers are ... canals are built
13:36<chillcore>either way start by making rivers flood neighbouring tiles
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13:37<Wolf01>hi hi
13:37<@Alberth>hi hi
13:37<chillcore>SE is Scenario Editor samu
13:37<samu>ok, how exactly? in the nml?
13:37<chillcore>hey Wolf
13:37<chillcore>samu in the C++
13:38<samu>oh crap :)
13:38<samu>yeah, if i can
13:38<chillcore>that is what peeps have been trying to tell you all along samu
13:40<chillcore>maybe you can try making a script ... AI should be able to build canals ... still not rivers
13:40<chillcore>so still C++
13:40<samu>where is the lock
13:40<chillcore>if you insist on rivers
13:40<samu>must edit it
13:41<samu>does the lock contain water already?
13:41<samu>dumb question, yes, it does
13:41<chillcore>you see it having it but does it really?
13:42<chillcore>eg. there is no height in openttd
13:42<chillcore>not the way you think about it
13:42<samu>ships can traverse it
13:42<chillcore>map is flat as pancake
13:42<chillcore>it is all fake
13:42<chillcore>yes they can
13:43<samu>let me think what I need to do
13:43<chillcore> ... please use ...
13:44<chillcore>plenty of documentatin but like alberth said there is missing parts
13:44<chillcore>you can click through to source code though
13:47<samu>1 - add a track kind of sub-route used for water spreading only, as an addition to the current one that is used for ships
13:47-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:47<samu>ships use the first one, water uses the one i need to create
13:48<samu>trying to find it
13:48<chillcore>find what samu ?
13:48<samu>the lock
13:49<samu>lock structure
13:49<@Alberth>learn c++ first, would be my suggestion
13:49<samu>i want to try the lock first, because it acts just as similar to a rivercliff
13:50<samu>at least for this confinement part
13:50<chillcore>no it does not samu
13:51<samu>:( I am so terrible
13:51<chillcore>nah you"re not terrible you are just not taking stuffs in the right order
13:51<chillcore>As alberth said learn some coding first
13:52<chillcore>you don't heve to be an expert but ydo need the basics
13:52<chillcore>did you code nml all your life before dabbling into it?
13:53<chillcore>were you born walking like a horsie?
13:53<chillcore>no you were not ... so
13:53<samu>I'm here atm
13:55<chillcore>that iqs all the water there is three types
13:55<chillcore>+ 1 invalid
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13:55<chillcore>ethe only one that floods is sea
13:55<chillcore>if you want more then you need to know C++
13:56<chillcore>noone is going to code it for you
13:56<chillcore>because ...
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13:56<chillcore>if you want it bad enough you will do it but don't expect to do it by tomorrow
13:56<chillcore>not even next week
13:57<chillcore>so start at the basics ... get a grasp of C++ and make reivers flood without the confinment
13:57<chillcore>then and only then you worry about the rest
13:58<samu>making rivers flood only the intended way?
13:58<chillcore>no just malke em flood like sea
13:58<chillcore>just don't care if they flood the entire map
13:58<samu>woah, that will destroy towns and everyting lol
13:58<chillcore>just make em flood
13:58<samu>ok i understand nopw
13:59<chillcore>who cares what it destroys you are testing
13:59<samu>that means i also have to install visual studio again
13:59<samu>why did i uninstall it :(
13:59<chillcore>you think I was caring about glitches much when I started helping with moreheightlevels?
13:59<chillcore>not in the least
14:00<chillcore>just see if we could make terrin higher and go from there
14:00<samu>if i have to create the .exe
14:01<chillcore>we had town way up there and labels 50 tiles lower :P
14:01<chillcore>trains running nowhere near tracks that kind of stuff
14:02<chillcore>so make it flow and then ...
14:03<chillcore>you have a spare HDD samy? or an empty USB that is reasonably big?
14:04<chillcore>install linux and have a blast instead of fighting windoze ;)
14:04<frosch123>today you run virtual machines :)
14:04<frosch123>i have like 10 of them
14:04<chillcore>that too ...
14:04<frosch123>no need for dual boot anymore or stuff
14:05<chillcore>talking of VM ... does win 8 run a bit in that?
14:06<chillcore>then I can keep that other HDD gaming/steam only hehe
14:06<frosch123>no idea, operating systems from before vms existed run excellent
14:06<samu>im on windows 7
14:06<frosch123>for win98 you need some over-clocker's tool, to make the cpu sleep when windows is idle
14:07<frosch123>other than that, i have no idea why you would need anything newer than xp in a vm
14:07<frosch123>also, you cannot mess up the installation, since you can always recover :)
14:08<chillcore>I'll give it another go then whenever I get bored
14:09<chillcore>still updating the stuffs after three/four months or so of no/no decent internet
14:10<chillcore>dude sends me new wireless modem ... does not work ..; i call and he sais but I tested it here ... noone told him my antenna got shut down
14:10<chillcore>not his fault but yeah
14:11<chillcore>I switched ISP ... 50 down 6 up, wifi about 10
14:11<chillcore>and I run a hotspot
14:12<chillcore>free mobile for 250 mb which I will not usebecause after that is .10 euros / mb
14:12<chillcore>but I got free wifi allover the world with "fon" too
14:12<chillcore>downside is ... cost * 3.5
14:13<chillcore>and no more unlimited ... still 500GB though
14:13<chillcore>anyhoo I degress
14:14<chillcore>hmm wait I lied after 500GB I go slower that is all
14:15<samu>im into something
14:17<chillcore>I still can sell my old contract though ... sais so in my contract ... vely vely cheap 131 euros a month if you prepay 2 years
14:17<chillcore>13 not 131
14:18<chillcore>samu you expect peeps to open your lin kand guess what you are looking at?
14:18<NGC3982>V453000: I have noticed something with RAWR that i can't seem to find any documentation (or error reporting regarding) anywhere. When using RAWR on a dedicated server, i notice almost nobody can join the game. They become disconnected due to topped out max_join_time.
14:18-!-roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
14:19<NGC3982>V453000: I have investigated my own server, and i experience the same thing on LAN. It seems to stop downloading and then 'ping out'. I have no idea if this is server/game/GRF related.
14:19<NGC3982>V453000: But it might be a good thing for you to know, if you stumble upon something similar. :-)
14:30<@Alberth>rawr shouldn't have to do with it, all clients have that data locally
14:32<@Alberth> ?
14:34*andythenorth broke python
14:34<andythenorth>never upgrade anything
14:38*chillcore remains Jailbroken at older revision
14:39<frosch123> <- that's the only meaningful solution i can come up with for the gui zooming of the chatbox
14:39<NGC3982>Alberth: I'll take a look. Thanks.
14:40<chillcore>not sure if giving away game to apple is wise ... then again not sure if it is wise to let known fuckery (pardon me my french) frome some developers is wise neither
14:40<chillcore>choices choices .... hehehe
14:42<chillcore>apple security is beneath all levels on iOS ... no wonder they keep their garden walled:(
14:42<@planetmaker>frosch123, the comment is wrong then, I think: + uint16 network_chat_box_width_pct; ///< width of the chat box in pixels
14:43<frosch123>s/pixels/percent/ :)
14:46<@Alberth>looks ok
14:46*andythenorth getting RSI from ‘which python'
14:46<andythenorth>and rm -r :P
14:48<@Alberth>rm -r / :p
14:48<@planetmaker>rm -rf /* :P
14:48<@planetmaker>let's make it thorough :P
14:48<@Alberth>su rm -rf /*
14:49<andythenorth>I’ve seen that done in a video
14:49<andythenorth>OS X keeps going for some time
14:49<andythenorth>several minutes
14:49<andythenorth>then it gets...wrong
14:50<@Alberth>no doubt :)
14:50<chillcore>hehe there is this game on windoze too ... you play and it eats files ... forgot name
14:50<chillcore>great way to have last play with HDD
14:50<andythenorth>yay, no more “Symbol not found: __PyInt_AsInt”
14:51<andythenorth>sometimes you have to play hunt the eggs :(
14:51<andythenorth>it’s always hard to know whether to play that before or after “destroy the virtualenv”, “update ports”, “rebuild python”
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14:56<andythenorth>stack overflow can lead to presumptous troubleshooting :P
14:57<andythenorth>“I solved this by buying a new computer”
14:58<chillcore>Hi FLHerne
14:58<FLHerne>chillcore: Evening!
14:59<frosch123>planetmaker: you are very destructive today :) that's already the second time
14:59<chillcore>FLHerne ... has been a while. How are you?
14:59<frosch123>first hg strip, now rm -rf :)
15:00<@planetmaker>oh :)
15:00<@planetmaker>hg strip is harmless in that comparison :P
15:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27144 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-12 20:00:23 UTC)
15:00<@DorpsGek>-Change: The chatbox-width setting now uses percent of screen width instead of pixels.
15:00<FLHerne>chillcore: Still busy with all this learning stuff
15:00<FLHerne>chillcore: And cold, because it's February
15:00<chillcore>coolios dorpsgek
15:02<chillcore>learning stuff ... might have to give you rendezvous in minecraft so you can tell me all about it.
15:03<chillcore>server is back up but I need access to my skydrive for our old game FLHerne
15:04<FLHerne>chillcore: Oh, that's still running? Tekkitised 1.2.5 is perhaps a bit ancient now though :-/
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15:05<chillcore>FLHerne It has been down for a while ... currenlty running Mn,ster as stresstest
15:05<FLHerne>Coincidentally, I played Minecraft this week for the first time in months
15:05<FLHerne>Was visiting people
15:05<chillcore>I'll send you details in PM in a bit if you want
15:06<chillcore>And yeah tekkit classic is a bit old ... just that it was such a cool world
15:06<FLHerne>chillcore: I'd definitely be interested, might not be able to play very much for a few months though
15:07<chillcore>no worries about that ..; rented for 250 days for the moment
15:07<chillcore>but I want to see if I can salvage that game at all before making anouncment
15:08<chillcore>no game changing this time or at least a lot less ..; my time is rather limited too
15:08<FLHerne>Personally, I'd prefer a 1.7.10-based thing, there are some really neat things in newer mods
15:08<FLHerne>But it's your fancy server, and I never did finish that nuclear plant
15:09<FLHerne>Not the one someone else did finish
15:11<chillcore>True ...
15:11<FLHerne>The rail system ws getting quite fun
15:11<FLHerne>But Archimedes Ships looks awesome, always wanted a strip-mining airship
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15:13<chillcore>just sad that this one guy had to explode a nuke... he thought it would heve the effect of tnt ... tha's why I need to check skydrive first
15:13<chillcore>it's locked for 30 days because I changed security
15:13<FLHerne>Did it destroy anything particularly disastrous?
15:13<chillcore>not that much ... just a bit of mining
15:14<FLHerne>Big crater could always be used for something else
15:14<chillcore>still big hole though
15:14<chillcore>yeah ...
15:14<chillcore>I can show you if you want
15:14<FLHerne>Giant concert venue or something
15:15<chillcore>I am currently checking a patch
15:15<chillcore>I'll change the server to classic and send you new IP
15:15<chillcore>then peeps can talk OpenTTD again here ... :P
15:27<chillcore>FLHerne: check your inbox ;)
15:27-!-quorzom [] has joined #openttd
15:28<chillcore>but if you don't have time now that is cool too ... I'll just change to monster then untill you do
15:28<chillcore>peeps are kinda playing from time to time
15:28<chillcore>not many yet ... testing first
15:29<chillcore>you may spawn at start since beds have been moved too
15:31*FLHerne pokes at TechnicLauncher
15:31<FLHerne>Doesn't seem to like shiny new Java
15:32<chillcore>7 should do?
15:33<chillcore>I do not even know whhat current version is TBH ... I kinda banned Flash and anything else that uses LSOs
15:35<FLHerne>chillcore: Hm, 'Install' button for Classic in the hideous new launcher doesn't seem to work?
15:35<chillcore>hmm ?
15:35<FLHerne>Does work for non-Classic, but not whatever the other random modpack I tried was
15:36<FLHerne>Looks 'clicked' (darker blue), but does nothing
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15:37<chillcore>it could be they changed some stuffs ... since they basically fetched your login for you then said they could no longer do that
15:37<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> no need for dual boot anymore or stuff <-- the last time i tried VMs, modern games didn't work. and for the non-modern games i have wine, which runs much better than VMs
15:37<chillcore>FLHerne then Notch said*
15:38<frosch123>true, i play factorio in a chroot
15:38<chillcore>FLHerne I could send you my folder somehow? I am 100ù sure you have bought minecraft so ...
15:38<chillcore>darn keyboard is new and not yet configerd
15:39<FLHerne>chillcore: It's the Technic-launcher's modpack downloading that's playing up
15:39<FLHerne>AFAIK that doesn't involve auth at all
15:39<chillcore>yes it does
15:39<FLHerne>But they don't seem to provide the plain jar in any sane manner
15:39<chillcore>that was the prob ... i does no longer but it did
15:40<chillcore>hmm ... I'll change back to monster untill we figure this out ;)
15:42<chillcore>ip remains the same but I stillneed to whitelist you, recommended version
15:45<FLHerne>Hrm, I don't think I can be bothered with Tekkit's deliberately-broken launcher mess tonight
15:46<chillcore>no sweat ... we have time and t is kinda a mess yeah
15:48<chillcore>your ingame name was hufxxx right?
15:49<FLHerne>Not sure why, bring on the name-changing ability
15:49<chillcore>ye that ... did not want to write it exposed like this
15:49<andythenorth>can anyone stop sunshare?
15:49<andythenorth>it’s a broken record
15:49<andythenorth>multiple forum requests, and pms
15:50<chillcore>anyhoo you should be whitelisted for monster too now FLHerne
15:50<chillcore>no rules except no griefing
15:50<andythenorth>the answer I’ve just deleted is…unhelpful
15:50<FLHerne>chillcore: monster?
15:51<chillcore>just tell him to use forum andy so that it helps more peeps ;) that's what I do when peeps pm or mail me
15:51<andythenorth>he’s already using the forum :P
15:51<chillcore>tell him that pm only benefits him and you prefer not wasting your time like that?
15:52<chillcore>ah ok he forums ...
15:52<chillcore>hmm ...
15:52<chillcore>FLHerne it is in the FTB launcher
15:53<FLHerne>Oh, at least that was slightly less of a buggy mess
15:53<chillcore>you may want to delete a mod or two though that cause a bit of lagging
15:53<chillcore>client mods
15:53<chillcore>I'll have to ask my little buddy which they were
15:56<chillcore>frosch ... that is a whole lot of cleaning you did there ... MHL fixes
15:57<frosch123>yes, that's why it was so annoying
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15:58<chillcore>still need to wrap my head around it but it looks pretty good (except them FIX_ME's)
15:58<chillcore>no casting to int there?
15:58<chillcore>or should it be fixed in a better way?
15:59<frosch123>anyway, adf posted some more fixes to fs
15:59<chillcore>I dunno at this point
15:59<chillcore>ah ok
16:04*andythenorth -> sleep
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16:04<chillcore>FLHerne ..; in FTB launcher > options > advanced ... you want to disable google analytics
16:05<chillcore>FLHerne they infested that too it seems
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16:11<FLHerne>chillcore: Thanks
16:11<FLHerne>Is it MindCrack (per PM), or Monster as you said here?
16:11<chillcore>Monster ... need skydrive for the old Mindcrack game
16:12<chillcore>I have some but not the latest
16:12<chillcore>HDD is locked and ...
16:12<chillcore>don't feel like going to microsoft forums
16:12<FLHerne>Waugh, I should get a faster HDD
16:13<chillcore>I bought genuine windows offline ... but when I called them they said it was not they that sold it to me so ...
16:13<chillcore>I call BS
16:13<chillcore>anyhoo I got two of them and I need to ask help online
16:14<FLHerne>[insert linux-related mutterings]
16:14<chillcore>When I went to store they checked my disk but said there was no prob with my hardware and I needed to ask MS
16:14<chillcore>yeah linux for the win
16:14<chillcore>the only thing I use windows is games anymore
16:15<chillcore>I refuse to store anything on a windows disk anymore
16:15<chillcore>I got my bleeping ubuntu 9.04 still ... this is the third PC I have put it in and the thing keeps running
16:16<chillcore>not that I use it anymore but still
16:16<chillcore>I can get to my data
16:17<chillcore>so now MS needs to explain to me how to bypass the HDD asking for password when I did not even put one on it
16:17<chillcore>Great thinking ... vely safe for security
16:18<chillcore>just give away game online lol
16:18*chillcore is mad at a lot of companies
16:20<chillcore>How I long for the days when you could just put a cd in your drive and go without the BS
16:21<chillcore>these days they want you to be online so 10 companies can track you and then sell your data to 1000 more
16:21<chillcore>THX a**ho**es
16:21<FLHerne>chillcore: Not whitelisted, it says
16:22<chillcore>hmm 1 sec
16:22<chillcore>try again I may have forgotten to save file
16:24<chillcore>or server needs rebot ... won't take long
16:25<FLHerne>chillcore: Something about mechworks meshfilters now
16:25<chillcore>I am rebooting to make sure
16:27<FLHerne>This is with Monster, 1.6.4 based
16:28<chillcore>it was running fine untill now ... back up just took slightly longer the usual
16:28<chillcore>it 's 22.30 in germany dads are playing hahaha
16:28<chillcore>hogging the net
16:30<samu>chillcore: i can't find the sea
16:30<chillcore>I am on it so it should work?
16:30<FLHerne>chillcore: again
16:30*FLHerne suspects wrong modpck version
16:30<samu>in the flood text, all I can find is a MP_WATER
16:31<samu>i click on it, and i get confused, i don't know how to follow this
16:31<FLHerne>Monster v1.1.1, MC 1.6.4
16:31<chillcore>if you got recommended? FLHerne yeah that should work ... lemme start steam and ask which mods you need to delete
16:32<chillcore>I thought it would work regardless of heving them still in your pack
16:32<chillcore>sorry for the troubs ;)
16:32<FLHerne>chillcore: Other way, if I'm reading the message right
16:32<FLHerne>It's complaining about the _client_ lacking microblock definitions
16:32<chillcore>hmm that is strange I did not have that prob
16:33<chillcore>one mod was some trees
16:33<chillcore>and the other ...
16:33<FLHerne>Definitely Monster 1.1.1?
16:33<chillcore>booting steam too ..; pc goes boom sson-ish
16:34<FLHerne>'recommended' doesn't seem to be a thing in FTB, it was techniclauncher with that?
16:34<FLHerne>Ignore above
16:34<FLHerne>I'm blind
16:35<chillcore>samu I am kinda doing three things already at the moment
16:36<chillcore>have you checked all file starting with water samu?
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16:39<chillcore>FLHerne .... delete/disable Natura and DyeTrees in your modpack
16:40<FLHerne>chillcore: Should I enable the ones other than that?
16:40<FLHerne>Some seem to be disabled by default, which is odd
16:40-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
16:40<chillcore>at your choice ... they are client side
16:40<chillcore>but them two cause lags
16:41<chillcore>map ...
16:41<chillcore>you want map
16:41<chillcore>and memory max 3.75
16:43<FLHerne>Nope, not on this thing
16:43<FLHerne>That would definitely be a bad idea :P
16:44<chillcore>more will give you worse performance
16:44<chillcore>unleess you got less haha
16:47<chillcore>samu: line 50 ... click?
16:47<chillcore>you've got the source on your pc? samu
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16:48<samu>and that's all it says, I'm so perplexed
16:48<chillcore>search in water_cmd.cpp ?
16:48<chillcore>if that exists that is
16:49<chillcore>did not check
16:49<samu>water_tile_river has to have water_class_sea?
16:50<chillcore>come now samu ... there are three classes yeah ... what class could be rivers
16:51<samu>water_class_river is river
16:51<chillcore>for what you want to do ... yo need to change the code so that rivers behave like sea yes
16:51<chillcore>but don't assign sea to river code
16:51<chillcore>steal code from sea and apply to river
16:51<chillcore>but but expect strange things to happen
16:52<chillcore>like I told you I have no clue how to proceed neither
16:53<chillcore>and you really need some basic C++ knowledge
16:53<chillcore>you know any programming languages at all?
16:53<chillcore>there is your prob
16:53<samu>i try to decipher
16:53<FLHerne>chillcore: Disabled those two, failed. Enabled all others, still failed.
16:53<samu>and fail
16:53<chillcore>darn .. both
16:54<chillcore>I don't get it FLHerne ... I mean it works for me
16:55<chillcore>and version is 1.1.1 indeed ... just checked
16:57<chillcore> samu
16:57<chillcore>referenced by is the functions that uses a function
16:58<chillcore>still you are in way over your head and will get frustrated
16:58<chillcore>take it easy
16:59<chillcore>do something simpler first
16:59<chillcore>have a look at patches at the forum
16:59<chillcore>see how they do things
16:59<samu>References MakeWater(), OWNER_WATER, and WATER_CLASS_SEA. - i see that WATER_CLASS_RIVER is missing
17:00<chillcore>is it?
17:00<samu>for what I was supposed to do
17:00<samu>have river behave like sea
17:00<samu>or maybe i have no idea what im talking about
17:01<chillcore>what about MakeRiver ?
17:01<samu>oh :)
17:01<chillcore>huhu ...
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17:02<samu>static void MakeRiver
17:02<samu>hmm chinese
17:03<chillcore>no C++ samu
17:03<chillcore>again this is what peeps have been trying to tell you
17:04<chillcore>read some tutorial pon the language
17:04<chillcore>s pon/on
17:04<chillcore>We can not hold your hand and show you letter bu letter
17:04<chillcore>that takes too much time and effort
17:05<chillcore>I myself have been messing around for about 25 years now
17:05<chillcore>and I still feel like I know nada sometimes
17:05<chillcore>which is the case often enough
17:06<chillcore>some things are easy because I struggled before
17:06<chillcore>other things I never saw before are as confusing to me as they are to you
17:07<chillcore>FLHerne you get an error message? otherwise come on steam for a sec and I'll pass you to my friend?
17:07<chillcore>he's better at this pack
17:07<samu>i've failed IT class in university
17:07<samu>several of them
17:07<samu>and dropped
17:09<samu>when i was writting some more complex program, someone deleted about 70% of the lines I've done
17:09<chillcore>fair enough samu ... but I left shool at 15 and never saw uni to begin with
17:09<samu>and replaced that with a few lines of code
17:09<FLHerne>[21:30] <FLHerne> chillcore:
17:09<FLHerne>chillcore: Not changed
17:09<samu>and it would achieve the same
17:09<samu>it's something I see here
17:09<chillcore>If I can do it so can you ... don't expect to get it in one day
17:09<samu>in this code
17:10<samu>something being replaced by some other thing which in itself probably replaces other parts
17:10<samu>a giant referring code
17:10<samu>which I can never follow
17:10<samu>i get lost
17:10<FLHerne>chillcore: Might sleep now though
17:11<chillcore>re-install FLHerne ... he sais
17:11<chillcore>ok np
17:11<FLHerne>Maybe at the weekend
17:11<chillcore>my friend is sweegee on steam
17:12<FLHerne>Goodnight :-)
17:12<samu>i thought i was a complete pro at IT before venturing into uni
17:12<chillcore>I'll tell him that maybe you will invite him
17:12<chillcore>or can he invite you
17:12<samu>then i realised that wasn't what I was looking for
17:12<chillcore>he's young but very friendly and helpfull FLHerne
17:13<samu>turns out everyone knew linux, and i didn't undestand crap of it
17:13<samu>and all classes were on linux
17:13<FLHerne>chillcore: Possibly I don't tend to use Steam's social stuff at all
17:13<samu>and i couldn't just do anything
17:13<samu>i failed horribly
17:13<FLHerne>You're still my only 'friend' (?) on there, IIRC
17:13<chillcore>he's no stalker if that is what you're worried about but as you wish
17:13<chillcore>ah like that
17:13<chillcore>the weekend it is then
17:14<chillcore>sleep tight
17:14<chillcore>insulfrog is there too btw and some others ... wanderer
17:14<FLHerne>Not bothered about that, after all I do use my (abbreviated) real name everywhere,,,
17:14<chillcore>I see well let's leave it like that then
17:15<FLHerne>k, goodnight again
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17:17<chillcore>ok samu but without trying you'll never succeed ...
17:18<chillcore>you learn from your misstakes not from the successes
17:18<chillcore>what you succeed yo already learned
17:20<chillcore>that is about the easiest book I read so far
17:20<chillcore>nicely explained and all
17:20<chillcore>some may disagree
17:21<chillcore>the online version is freely downloadable
17:21<chillcore>for offline use
17:22<chillcore>few so much talking today ... chatting is not good for me
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17:27<samu>i downloaded volume 1 and 2
17:27<chillcore>cool but you still need to read them too
17:29<chillcore>note: I have not finisched these myself
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18:21<juzza1>have there been some changes wrt sprite aligner? 1x zoom sprites move 1/4 pixel per click in sprite aligner
18:23<juzza1>have to click a lot and divide the offset shown in the sprite aligner by 4 to get i right in nml
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18:59<juzza1>just tested with 1.4 and the sprite aligner works correctly (moving 1px per click)
19:00<juzza1>ill try to find the exact rev when it was changed tomorrow
19:00<juzza1>if it's unintentional
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>afair people complained that they couldn't align 4x sprites properly
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>because they jumped 4px per click instead of 1px
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what the new behaviour is. maybe it needs further improvement
19:09<samu>i can't do this, I'm overwhelmed
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>samu: what did you expect? learning c++ in an hour?
19:14<samu>no, of course not, reading the first part of the book and i'm already lost
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>samu: it might take years before you can produce actually useful code. but you'll never be able to do that if you stop now.
19:14<samu>there's a lot of stuff to have in mind before starting a project
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and about 99% of your projects will never become reality
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>but that 1% will never exist if you don't try
19:17<samu>gosh, I'm gonna create a word document and write down my ideas first, else I can't start
19:19<samu>my mind gets stuck, i think too much, my thinking suddenly gets lost, my thinking process ... get stuck all the time, I'm always going around and around and never get anywhere
19:19<samu>trying to follow my line of though
19:21<samu>and i have attention deficit
19:21<samu>i'm easily distracted
19:21<samu>I wanna do this, but at the same time I get stuck while trying...
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>tip: try smaller and smaller projects, until you find one that you can actually follow through
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19:44<raincomplex>sounds like you need to slow down a bit
19:44<raincomplex>i've found that being "stuck" usually means you are having a problem and aren't seeing the problem
19:45<raincomplex>very simple example, say you are drawing a train and you've got the linework but can't get past that
19:45-!-Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:45<raincomplex>maybe you aren't deciding what color it should be
19:46<raincomplex>and instead you keep going back and fussing with the lines
19:47<samu>those diagrams can help me
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20:19<samu>heading to bed, cyas tomorrow, thx for all the help and incentive words.
20:20<samu>will continue this tomorrow
20:20<samu>too tired now
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21:59<Diablo-D3>openttd needs a warning
21:59<Diablo-D3>may be addictive.
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22:07<smoke_fumus>Diablo-D3: may contain chunks of crashlanded planes
22:08-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:23<Flygon__>Diablo-D3: OpenTTD is addictive for one reason
22:23<Flygon__>And one reason only
22:23<Flygon__>It totally followed Ragnarok Online's path in using NewGRFs to pioneer game updates
22:23-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
22:24<Diablo-D3>smoke_fumus: man I was in a 25k citybuilder game, constant plane crashing except me
22:24<Flygon>(Ragnarok Online uses a semi-compressed .grf format to store all of it's games files for faster content access)
22:24<Diablo-D3>Flygon: its not like modding that way is new
22:24<Diablo-D3>Flygon: hell, games before doom were doing that shit
22:24<Flygon>I'm not talking about modding :B
22:25<Flygon>Gravity's patches basically came in form of .grf files that were merged with the master .grf file
22:34<smoke_fumus>Diablo-D3: citybuilder kinda sucks
22:34<Diablo-D3>Flygon: thats not new either
22:34<Diablo-D3>smoke_fumus: it does and doesnt
22:34<Diablo-D3>theres a few ... I dunno, bugs I guess, that allow really quick building
22:35<Diablo-D3>Flygon: quake3 did updates to the base content through more paks
22:37<smoke_fumus>Diablo-D3: if i want to play city builder - i'll launch sim city 4, thank you very much
22:38<smoke_fumus>or cities xl
22:38<smoke_fumus>or cities in motion
22:38<smoke_fumus>or just released Cities: Skylines
22:38<smoke_fumus>hm...i should buy that one
22:39<smoke_fumus>wait, almost released. march 10
22:45<Diablo-D3>smoke_fumus: lol.
22:45<Diablo-D3>smoke_fumus: well its nice for multiplayer
22:46<Diablo-D3>it gives the game and end goal
22:54<Flygon>Diablo-D3: Yeah, but RO's the only other game I've personally see explicitly call them GRF's :P
22:56<Diablo-D3>well I doubt its the same format =P
22:56<Diablo-D3>even quake cant keep paks straight
22:56<Diablo-D3>quake1 paks and quake3 pk3s arent the same =P
22:58<Flygon>Diablo: Nah, just the same file extension, terminology, and general purpose (semi-compressing a folder and file tree into a single file for faster disk access)
22:58<Flygon>Tempting to see what happens if OTTD's GRF mechanism was ported to RO, RO's GRFs converted to use OTTD's method, set up a private server
22:58<Flygon>And utterly brainfuck anyone that tries to disassemble the GRF with standard RO tools :B
22:58<Diablo-D3>Im surprised ottd grfs arent just zips.
23:06<Flygon>That's basically what RO's GRFs are
23:06<Flygon>Propitary zips
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 13 00:00:11 2015