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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-14

---Logopened Sat Feb 14 00:00:12 2015
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03:27<supermop>should articulated vehicles cast shadows on other parts of themselves?
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03:40<Supercheese>Answer 1: Yes, they probably should. Answer 2: Nobody will be bothered if they don't.
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03:55<Supercheese>1 vote for Answer #2, I see
03:58<@Alberth>no would be the logical answer, as otherwise you have shadow on the truck but not on the road/houses/bridges/etc
04:00<supermop>also if i render center of tram with a shadow on it cast by rear of tram, i need to re-render for each possible angle that the rear is in relation to the center, or have the shadow be usually wrong
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04:20<@peter1138>Then you have two separate trams up close with no shadow between then, but shadows between the parts? Sounds like a bad idea.
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05:32<supermop>oh god its true
05:33<supermop>there is a spider with a 3" leg diameter suspended 8' over my terrace right now
05:33<supermop>rear body segment is about 3/4" diameter
05:34<Wolf01>pics or didn't happen
05:34<supermop>its night but i do have a blurry one from my phone
05:34<Wolf01>and a banana for scale
05:34<Wolf01>eh, night, nopeland?
05:35<supermop>a huge exotic looking cockroach ran into my kitchen while i had the door open to take pictures of the spider D":
05:36<Wolf01>maybe it was afraid of the spider too
05:36<supermop>man if that huge spider wants to live in my garden she should pull her weight and eat some of these other huge bugs
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06:10<supermop>which of these center articulations looks best, bearing in mind the round thing will have no shadows cast on it, and everything will be smaller in game?
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06:19<romazoon>the middle one i think look best
06:21<romazoon>i like the first too, the third look strange, why there is that cylinder hanging between the two parts...
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06:34<supermop>thanks romazoon
07:03<supermop>the steel tubes in the third one are from this:
07:03<supermop>but maybe it's too busy to include that as well as the other elements
07:12<supermop>2nd one is based off this:
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07:16<supermop>im afraid the coffee bins at the front make it look too much like a real tram
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07:27<@Alberth>gn super mop
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07:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27148 /trunk/src (4 files) (2015-02-14 12:53:07 UTC)
07:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Rounding and unit-conversion inconsistencies in calls to MarkAllViewportsDirty.
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08:19<roidal_>whats the problem if a client looses connection with "client #x is dropped because it took longer than 100 ticks to start the joining process
08:19<Diablo-D3>too well, it probably took too long
08:19<Diablo-D3>is it a really huge map? or has a lot of shit on it?
08:20<roidal_>oh, we disabled IPv6
08:20<roidal_>now its working
08:20<@peter1138>Bah, disabling IP :(
08:20<Diablo-D3>heh, probably was timing out on connecting altogether
08:21<Diablo-D3>yeah its kinda fucked up how ISPs offer IPv6 now, and it basically doesnt work
08:21<@peter1138>IP does work. Some people still have misconfigured shit though.
08:21<Diablo-D3>yeah it does work
08:21<Diablo-D3>but like, I disable it locally on my LAN
08:21<Diablo-D3>because I've had issues in the past with retarded software
08:22<@peter1138>If it's over an IPv4 tunnel, then likely MTU problems rear their head.
08:22<@peter1138>I prefer to disable the retarded software.
08:22<roidal_>we use a SSH-tunnel
08:22<Diablo-D3>yeah I hate the goddamned MTU problems
08:22<roidal_>and it seems that putty had some problem with IPv6
08:22<Diablo-D3>especially since IPv6 is pretty anti-fragment
08:22<Diablo-D3>roidal_: but only if you scp'ed shit?
08:23<Diablo-D3>well, Ive had mtu issues with ssh
08:23<Diablo-D3>it'd work normally until I scp'ed shit
08:23<Diablo-D3>then it'd probably fuck up
08:25<roidal_>we use ssh with port-forwarding
08:25<roidal_>to tunnel openttd
08:25<Diablo-D3>yeah, and thats the same issue
08:25<Diablo-D3>ssh manipulates packet state
08:25<Diablo-D3>like, switching to tcp_nodelay for interactive processes
08:26<Diablo-D3>but setting stuff up for maximum throughput for proxying and scp
08:29<roidal_>mom, restarting client
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08:58<juzza1>I'm trying to create a mapping of SpriteID <-> sprite.x_offs and y_offs to improve sprite aligner, but getting these compiler errors I don't undertstand
08:58<juzza1>relevant part of the code is also in that paste
08:59<frosch123>you cannot use operator[] on a const map
08:59<frosch123>use the find method instead
08:59<juzza1>ok, thanks
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11:41*andythenorth is being a diligent python keeper
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11:49<andythenorth>hrm, python 2 to 3, imports need fixing :|
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11:54<andythenorth>oh bollocks
11:54<andythenorth>I just used ‘hg commit —amend -m “[Foo]””
11:54<andythenorth>what have I done to my repo
11:55<andythenorth>it’s talking about hg strip and backup bundles
11:56<andythenorth>I just wanted to amend the commit, and typed it unthinkingly
11:56<andythenorth>because git
11:56<andythenorth>docs say “amend the parent of the working dir”
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12:06<andythenorth>do I need to get my backups?
12:06*andythenorth doesn’t want to push and break the repo
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12:10<chillcore>hello all
12:10<chillcore>thx for r27148 frosch
12:11<chillcore>although it has me scratching my head a bit hehe
12:11<frosch123>it's only the first patch of like 7
12:11<chillcore>200 pixels for buildings was in the code years ago ...
12:13<chillcore>and TilePixelHeighOutside map ... we already queried the tile height outside map for airplanes not to crash the game
12:13<chillcore>why not multiply that by TILE_HEIGHT?
12:14<chillcore>not that I am complaining or anything
12:14<chillcore>just a bit confused
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12:15<frosch123>all the height functions exist for corners, tiles, max/min height, and with units height levels and traditional pixels
12:15<chillcore>then again frquent reversals of code made me start my patchpack
12:15<frosch123>take a look at the header file, it's just another member in a collection
12:16<chillcore>right tight I see ... my bad ... only paid attention at functionname
12:18*andythenorth pushes anyway
12:18<chillcore>I'd better finish my pactch then soon-ish so peeps can be let loose on setting some nice defaults for smoothness presets
12:18*andythenorth hopes devzone has backups
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12:22<chillcore>I think I am about ready for a code review ... just a few more things to change and then 10-ish patches
12:22<chillcore>them patches I consider addons so ...
12:26<chillcore>I am just not sure yet if I will need two arays for the smoothness presets yet ... small maps and large maps
12:29<chillcore>anyhoo I'll be glad if we do not need to disable moreheightlevels in 1.5, I really am
12:31<chillcore>when is the next beta/RC due?
12:32<chillcore>just asking because the masses is better at detecting things, no rush and I do not need exact date
12:33<frosch123>likely after i committed the fixes
12:34<frosch123>but i am still not sure how to split up the viewport code
12:34<frosch123>likely i cannot and have to commit it as a whole :p
12:35<chillcore>hmm ok ... I can post my current version if someone is willing to have a quick look where I need improving things
12:35<chillcore>I'll have another look at that viewport code then after collecting my patches and posting them
12:36<chillcore>not that I will know but I had many looks before
12:37<chillcore>checking if this still compiles and runs ...
12:38<chillcore>I will leave (almost) all todo patches in too
12:40<chillcore>before I forget, frosh ... you do realise that with 200 pixels for buidings them tall TTRS buildings will still glitch?
12:40<chillcore>no more as before though
12:40<frosch123>i don't think they are higher than 200 pixels at normal zoom
12:41<frosch123>iirc they are like 150 or so
12:41<chillcore>yes they are, they have always glithed
12:41<chillcore>but only very few of them not all
12:41<chillcore>it is bearable
12:42<chillcore>and you really need to pay attention
12:42<frosch123>how tall are they then?
12:42<chillcore>not nearly as bad as them screenshots I saw
12:42<chillcore>I'd have to chheck
12:42<frosch123>i never play with ttrs, because it is darn ugly, but i have not seen buildings higher than 150
12:42<chillcore>I though 220-ish?
12:42<chillcore>but I am geussing
12:43<chillcore>maybe we should impose a max height to graphic devs?
12:43<chillcore>for the future that is?
12:43<frosch123>there is already, resp now it is more explicit
12:43<frosch123>but what does it matter? some grf do not care about glitches
12:43<chillcore>ah ok ... I am a bnit out of the loop hehe
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12:44<andythenorth>eh I have coded myself into a corner :P
12:44<andythenorth>bad choices
12:45<chillcore>what I meant that peeps now can create 300 pixel high graphics and OpenTTD will not complain, at least they could
12:45<frosch123>people can create 32000 pixel high graphics
12:45<frosch123>what does it matter?
12:45<frosch123>anyway, don't confuse zoom levels
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27149 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2015-02-14 17:45:41 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
12:45<frosch123>the limit in the patch queue is 200 at 1x zoom
12:46<frosch123>which is 800 at 4x zoom-in
12:46<chillcore>ah like that ... then yeah it should be fine
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12:49<chillcore>Hmm toolbar changed in scenario editor and I need to adjust where guis open ...
12:50<chillcore>but code works ... I'll add another todo for now and I'll post it
12:50<chillcore>basically it is chosen syntax and implementation I would like feedback on
12:51<chillcore>maybe shortening if elses here and there
12:51<chillcore>brb adjusting some comments in commit messages
12:53<chillcore>hmm toolbar does starnge things too when passing a gui over it ... need to check clean trunk too
12:59<andythenorth>also Iron Horse is now starting to look like ‘proper’ bureaucratic enterprise code
12:59<andythenorth>extra boilerplate ftw
13:00<andythenorth>at least the linter is happy :|
13:00*andythenorth wonders what’s wrong with ‘code worse, by chocie'
13:00<andythenorth>or even choice
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13:00<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
13:01<@Alberth>nothing, as long as the profit is more than the loss
13:01<DanMacK>Hey hey
13:01<andythenorth>I have a feeling that the linter is my friend, if only I’d be nice about it
13:01<chillcore>Told ya the next victory was yours, andy ;) I should start charging for my visions :P
13:02<@Alberth>BB should track deliveries, and extend the deadline ?
13:02<andythenorth>Alberth: maybe
13:02<andythenorth>I wondered
13:02<andythenorth>I won’t start any goals with < 4 years or so remaining in current game
13:03<andythenorth>current game has been interesting for a long time btw
13:03<andythenorth>still playing it
13:03<andythenorth>60 years so far
13:04<andythenorth>I suppose wrapping module code in main() is not a bad habit to get into
13:06<andythenorth>oh dear
13:06<andythenorth>I’ve just seen ways I could make some modules more ‘structured'
13:06<andythenorth>and ‘organised'
13:07<andythenorth>with more data types and utillity code
13:07<andythenorth>this is probably terrible
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13:30<chillcore>hehe bingbot was in my thread as soon as I posted ...
13:31<chillcore>frosch ... the viewport code has not changed in your patchqueueu? just checking as I still have it here
13:31<frosch123>huh? patch 30 deletes it completely
13:32<chillcore>hmm ... what needs splitting then?
13:32<chillcore>I do not have it open ...
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13:35<chillcore>patch 30 adds 4 lines frosch ...
13:36<frosch123>it adds dummy code iirc
13:40<chillcore>ye it sets left-, right_colum and top_row to 0 and adds a fixme comment to
13:41<andythenorth>why do I have Factory pattern code
13:41<andythenorth>surely I could have done that simpler?
13:42<andythenorth>this isn’t some kind of enterprise app
13:42<andythenorth>it just repaints train sprites
13:42<andythenorth>stick to primitives :P
13:44<chillcore>frosh 60 adds code in viewport ... I do not mind having a go if I knew what it is that needs doing
13:45<chillcore>I'll make a branch and aply them to test in the meantime
13:46<frosch123>you can try whether fs#6208 applies on top of the queue
13:47<frosch123>i haven't actually looked at fs#6208 yet, and how it interacts with the other fixes
13:47<frosch123>fs#6206 is already part of the queue though
13:48*chillcore takes notes of FS##s
13:52<chillcore>that weird terrain FS# should be fixable by my tgen pacth
13:53<chillcore>hard to prevent it as it depends params values used
13:53<chillcore>^^^ when setting custom that is it should never happen with presets when tuned
13:56<chillcore>I still do not unerstand why ic111 allowed you guys to go ahead and commit so soon
13:57<chillcore>no point in pointing fingers though
13:57<chillcore>no offence ic111 ... if you get to read this
14:09<chillcore>frosch: so patch 10 I can throw away
14:09<frosch123>uh, better do not apply it on trunk head
14:09<frosch123>i changed 10 when committing, the rest likely does not apply smoothly
14:10<frosch123>so, better take the queue on an earlier revision
14:11<chillcore>I checked quickly and evrything is commited ... I do not mind merging code ;)
14:11<chillcore>unless you already kow I will have some serious probs?
14:12<frosch123>likely already 20 does not apply due to different indentign
14:12<chillcore>indeed ... still not a prob though I did worse before ;)
14:13<chillcore>hmm no it aplies
14:13<chillcore>better idea ... do manually from start ;)
14:14<frosch123>just apply the queue to an earlier revision
14:14<frosch123>way less work
14:14<frosch123>there is no point in updating the queue, 20 will be changed almost completely anyway
14:14<andythenorth>‘flat is better than nested'
14:14<chillcore>I could but then we have to bump again ... same effort really frosh.
14:15<andythenorth>until you have 30 pngs beginning ‘passenger_car_…'
14:15<chillcore>I am in no rush frosch
14:15<frosch123>i just want to save you work :p
14:15<chillcore>don't we seen where that takes us :P
14:15*andythenorth hates organising
14:22<chillcore>I do apreciate what you are saying it frosh, bbut I also saw peeps getting frustrated over something like that
14:22<chillcore>eg "but but you said ... lalalala" <- not me
14:24<@Alberth>just reset the counter on delivery?
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14:28<chillcore>ther your patches aplied ... was just three line to adjust ... took loner to cjhheck then do ... will check again later to make sure ;) frosh
14:29<chillcore>my old boss used to say: I don't care how you do it nor do I care how long it takes. Just do it right
14:29<chillcore>he was kinda my second father and in the end I boossed him around :P
14:30<chillcore>Not that I intend to boss any of you around ;)
14:32<chillcore>But I wold like to have aboss like that again ... "and what will you be doing this week? I just need my jeep on friday so if you could ..."
14:37*andythenorth back to refactoring :|
14:42<andythenorth>now I have made a factory factory :|
14:42<andythenorth>this can’t be wise
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14:46<chillcore>frosh: in FS#2608 adf reoves some comments ... should I delete them too?
14:46<chillcore>just mentioning if we are inside or outside the map ... I'd rather keep them
14:46<chillcore>your call
14:47<chillcore>just the comment about scaling to 16 *16 tiles I amm not sure
14:47<chillcore>I mean not sure if that would still be correct
14:48<andythenorth>Alberth: tell me I’m doing it wrong please :P
14:48*andythenorth is on a low-sleep, low-sanity day
14:48<chillcore>nvm he remmoves more ... frosh
14:48<chillcore>it would no longer be correct
14:48<@Alberth>it doesn't look right andy
14:49<@Alberth>stop for today, and sleep a night over it
14:49<andythenorth>factory factory factoires
14:49<andythenorth>factories *
14:49<andythenorth>meta-app-generation framework
14:49<andythenorth>just have your analyst define the logic in UML
14:50<@Alberth>just add a few layers extra, just in case
14:50<andythenorth>then hit go on our compilation tool
14:50<andythenorth>I should make it service-orientated
14:50<andythenorth>in fact, I should move all the compiling to the cloud, parallelised
14:50<@Alberth>you have pretty much had every way of implementing it :)
14:50<andythenorth>capable of accepting any valid nml block
14:51*andythenorth reachs for more sanity
14:51<andythenorth>and more accurate typing
14:51<@Alberth>minor niggle is that in the end something needs to do the work
14:51<@Alberth>can't make that go away by abstracting
14:51<andythenorth>the actual code is fine :)
14:52<andythenorth>as I add more rosters, I’m trying to remove anything that is just copy-paste boilerplate
14:52<andythenorth>it’s removing redundancy I guess :)
14:53<@Alberth>somewhat, but the lower limit may be higher than one, in cases
14:53<@Alberth>at some point removing something mostly duplicate is more work than just keeping it
14:53<andythenorth>also removes simple configuration
14:54<andythenorth>on the plus side, I’ve mostly silenced pyflakes
14:56<chillcore>frosh: I found what was confusing me ... adf his patch conflicts with your deleting in 30
14:56<chillcore>yay for me
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14:58<chillcore>and agian in 60 ... where you add code
14:59<chillcore>I got this ... I think
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15:04<andythenorth>Alberth: out of interest, when wrapping module code in main(), is there any convention to keep everything in main()? I have some configuration that would be easier to read out of main()
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15:05<lobstar>oh dear
15:05<@Alberth>you can call arbitrary functions of course, or use arbitrary data
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15:05<@Alberth>it's just a function like all other
15:06<@Alberth>it usually pays off to keep main() relatively simple, as it's the main backbone of execution
15:06<@Alberth>but that's about it
15:07<chillcore>this gonna take a bit longer as expected hehe ... coffee time
15:08<frosch123>yay, i shoveled work on someone :)
15:08<chillcore>hihi. I first need to understand what you did exactly in terms of codechange
15:09<chillcore>and thx ... annything to keep me away from steam for the moment is welcome
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15:15<chillcore>aha it seems that adf's pacth fixes one of your fixme lines
15:16<chillcore>I do remember seeing a second you've pput in but it is not in the same block
15:16<chillcore>one thing at a time
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15:20<chillcore>darn I need to take into account your changing to "* tile size" too somewhere ...
15:21<chillcore>you added that and now he adf removes that line
15:21<chillcore>so if I do that the "* TILE_SIZE" is lost ...
15:21<chillcore>not good ...
15:22<chillcore>er ... no he reads it later
15:22<chillcore>this is fun
15:22<chillcore>reminds me of my patchpack ... cargodist + extra zoom + moreheightlevels + trunk
15:23<chillcore>but without cargodist this time
15:24<chillcore>I never publisched with the extra zoom though way too buggy
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15:35<chillcore>hmm I guess if it were easy you would have done so frosch thanks for your horse ... :P
15:37<chillcore>adf moves code to a part you changed inside if (visible)
15:37<chillcore>but I guess if I do the same ...
15:38<chillcore>balls to it ... just going with my gut elling and check what happens after
15:38<frosch123>he :p sorry, but i didn't look at it.
15:38<chillcore>always worked till now
15:38<chillcore>np it is just that it is kinda six patches in one
15:39<chillcore>condensed in 10 lines r so
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15:39<chillcore>30 delets, 60 adds and changes, then adf modifies code before your changes were made
15:41<chillcore>would openttd look good on a cv?
15:41<frosch123>nope :p
15:41<frosch123>i was asked why ottd is so little c++ :p
15:42<chillcore>hysterical raisons was not good enough?
15:43<chillcore>I talked to this guy my age ... he took a course in Java and finishes in two weeks ... he already has somewhere to go
15:44<chillcore>helps he did 10 years of QA
15:44<chillcore>don't thinkn it would end well though for me
15:45<chillcore>"Whaaaaaaaaat datamining? code it yourself!"
15:46<chillcore>same for micro transaction doodoo ....
15:48<chillcore>anyhoo I do understand peeps doing it because ... rent
15:49<andythenorth>ugh Java enterprise patterns
15:49<andythenorth>no shortage of demand for that particular awful thing
15:51<chillcore>huhu so i've heard ... although not sure if I should believe the salary he mentioned
15:52<chillcore>105k a year ... dollars
15:52<chillcore>could be but ...
15:53<chillcore>that a ton of moneyz
15:53<frosch123>zimbabwian dollars?
15:53<chillcore>4k a month is not unheard of
15:54<chillcore>lol ye probably
15:55<chillcore>I did insist too much to tell me what and where
15:56<@Alberth>america has higher salaries as you have to pay lots of insurance that gets paid by employers here
15:56<chillcore>aha there is the catch
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15:57<andythenorth>yeah converting straight to £sterling 105k a year is believable easily
15:57<andythenorth>probably in finance, or weapons systems
15:57<andythenorth>that’s approx £70k sterling
15:57<@peter1138>possessive 's is not short for "his" :s
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16:01<chillcore>o/ peter
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16:07<chillcore>hmm still no dice frosch ... does not compile
16:08<chillcore>must ... be ... fixable ...
16:10<romazoon>hi guys, about MHL in trunk, it causes small problem to activate it in an existing scenario, i have to start a game, do the cheat, then save, then change the .sav into a .scn so i can rework the scenario. now i can t add any "signs" into my scenario, they don t get saved into the scenario, that s the first visible bug, but i m pretty sure having already a company setted up isn t so great either
16:11<chillcore>ooh wait it does now ... link to that pastebin pls?
16:11<chillcore>I should save it smewhere hehe ...
16:13<chillcore>frosch: I get these toolbar glitches in scenario editor here too
16:13<chillcore>frosch: since my tgen patch is not here it must be in trunk
16:14<chillcore>checking if what FS should fix has been fixed
16:14<chillcore>that tool bar glitch is easy to test ... go to SE and drag viewport around
16:16<chillcore>hmm romazoon ... clean trunk?
16:16<chillcore>what signs? the normal ones?
16:17<frosch123>romazoon: why do you need the se to enable mhl?
16:18<chillcore>I hope it is not that max height setting ...
16:19<frosch123>hmm, i guess i broke the se toolbar yesterday
16:19<chillcore>ye kinda frosch
16:19<frosch123>i though i tested it :)
16:20<chillcore>first time I check today ... first checking that FS# fix ... it compiled ok and runs
16:20<andythenorth>can we have a Mediterranean Climate? :P
16:20*andythenorth is moderately serious
16:20<frosch123>found the issue
16:21<frosch123>andythenorth: pota:ghat?
16:21<chillcore>eh can't test .;; no toolbar to open gui
16:21<andythenorth>hmm baseset :P
16:21<andythenorth>replace toyland!
16:21*andythenorth should go to sleep
16:21<andythenorth>enough nonsense
16:22<frosch123>i think V wants to add like 16 climates to rawr :p
16:22<andythenorth>also bye
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16:22<frosch123>chillcore: try again :)
16:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27150 trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp (2015-02-14 21:22:47 UTC)
16:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27146): Forgot scenario toolbar.
16:23<chillcore>bumping now thx
16:23<romazoon>yes clean trunk, R27025, and because i want to edit a scenario made from an heightmap but wich had to cut all the top of mountains to keep details in other areas
16:24<romazoon>now i just want to add those mountains top so it looks nicer, and become less usable
16:25<chillcore>hmm what is max height setting of terrain?
16:25<chillcore>not terrain type the other one ...
16:26<romazoon>and the signs are the normal signs. i suspect here the problem is that i had to start a game to activate the cheat, then revert that to a scn, I know signs from scenario are different they stay for ever and are not editable in a running game, but now with that company that got started in the scenario i guess they are just "company signs" and don t get saved or somehting
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16:27<frosch123>no idea what cheat you mean
16:27<frosch123>but if you can place signs in se, they are saved for sure
16:27<romazoon>the MHL cheat
16:27<chillcore>that one yes ...
16:28<romazoon>no they are not saved anymore after starting a game with the scenario (to activate the MHL), then when i write a sign in the scenario editor, save and reload the signs have disapeared
16:28<frosch123>maybe you have some transparency option, to not show signs which are not from your compnay
16:28<romazoon>i checked the sign list : no signs
16:28<chillcore>also try a sign lower to test please
16:28<frosch123>the list is filteres as well
16:30<chillcore>toolbar fixed confirmed
16:30<frosch123>hmm, why is changing max height a cheat?
16:31<frosch123>is it dangerous or something?
16:31<romazoon>hmm, now i retried and it indeed works like planned....but i m pretty sure it did erase my signs at some point : I was doing a to do list with signs and it simply vanished
16:31<chillcore>no more dots outside map confirmed ... on top of your queue frosch
16:31<chillcore>I may or may not have broken other stuffs
16:31<romazoon>apparently it s a cheat cause it reset the state of newgrf or something along those lines
16:32<chillcore>snowline newgrf ...
16:32<chillcore>maybe something else
16:32<chillcore>I still think it is a stupid setting
16:32<romazoon>now i wish the cheat window would be accessible from the scenario editor...
16:32<frosch123>romazoon: just use the console
16:33<frosch123>hmm, you cannot change the setting with the console?
16:34<frosch123>weird setting that is
16:34<chillcore>maybe something ic111 forgot
16:34<chillcore>console cmd
16:34<chillcore>I need to check ...
16:35<frosch123>guiflags = SGF_NEWGAME_ONLY | SGF_NO_NETWORK <- i guess it is save to add SGF_SCENEDIT_TOO
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16:35<frosch123>the SGF_NO_NETWORK is redudant ofc
16:35<frosch123>that's why it gives such weird error on the console :)
16:36<chillcore>let me first give you a a fix for adf his patch
16:36<romazoon>glad to know the console might fullfill my wish at some point ;)
16:36<chillcore>if I had known I would have changed ISP way sooner
16:36<chillcore>sorry guys
16:36<chillcore>oh boy ...
16:36<chillcore>anyhoo moving forwards
16:37<chillcore>so much fixing what was already fixed
16:37<chillcore>maybe no SE but I am sure more will surface soon
16:38<chillcore>I am really inclined to take out MHL till 1.6
16:38<chillcore>your call but this is not good
16:38<chillcore>not good at all
16:39<chillcore>no really I ghave had much patience and always kept quit ... this will not do
16:39<chillcore>no lowering standards for a few levels more or less ...
16:39<chillcore>please ...
16:40<chillcore>I understand ic111 is used to production and all that
16:40<chillcore>me quality comes first
16:40<chillcore>grabbing coffee
16:41<chillcore>can you pass me the link to pastebin please
16:41<frosch123>hmm, is there a smallmap in scenario editor?
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16:47<chillcore>frosh: ^^^ FS#6208 on top of your queue
16:47<chillcore>bumped that is
16:48<chillcore>needs testing though ... it compiles and runs and fixes what it is supposed to fix
16:48<chillcore>next SE ... flag
16:49<frosch123>hmm, are you sure it needs all that?
16:49<frosch123>maybe the "if" in the last hunk is enough?
16:51<chillcore>I really do not know frosch ... I just merged
16:53<chillcore>maybe ...
16:53<frosch123>well, the other parts look like things i already dealt with :p
16:53<chillcore>cana tile be invalid at that point in the code ...
16:54<chillcore>it already has a fllag is visible
16:54<frosch123>the black tiles are
16:54<chillcore>mark as to check?
16:54<chillcore>fugly but that way we do not foorget?
16:55<chillcore>and yes the black tiles are invalid so ...
16:55<chillcore>they cn not be selected
16:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27151 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2015-02-14 21:55:30 UTC)
16:55<@DorpsGek>-Add: Allow changing max heightlevel in scenario editor.
16:55<frosch123>romazoon: have fun :)
16:56<chillcore>thx frosch
16:56<frosch123>it can be changed via the normal settings
16:56<frosch123>cheat is only needed in running game
16:56<frosch123>and yes, due to newgrf reasons
16:56<chillcore>one more squasched yay
16:57<romazoon>thanks a lot for taking care of that so fast, i am puzzled !
16:57<frosch123>that's only because i was confused that it worked like it worked
16:58<chillcore>hmm frsch maybe the if can be removed ... black tiles are drawn too
16:58<chillcore>invalid or not
16:59<romazoon>well i raised that problem in the MHL thread in the forum but it didn t grad much attention (not long at least)
16:59<frosch123>isn't the fs about the issue that the black tiles get the selection dot, which they shouldn't?
16:59<chillcore>sorry romazoon that your call was not answered.
16:59<chillcore>thx for the repot anyway ... keep em comming
16:59<romazoon>so that s why i m pretty amazed that an hour after i raise the problem here it is solved, i find it just "great"
17:00<frosch123>call it "lucky" :p
17:00<chillcore>the FS was about dots being drawn outside the map yes ... you are right
17:00<romazoon>no, my call was answered actually, but just putted aside ;)
17:00<chillcore>so the if must stay
17:00<chillcore>no drawing
17:01<chillcore>ok romazoon ... sorry again
17:01<chillcore>it should have been handled
17:01<chillcore>wether you reported to me or to ic111 does not matter
17:01<chillcore>next time yell ;)
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17:01<chillcore>demand that it is fixed
17:02<romazoon>no problem chillcore, no need to be sorry ;) and yes i ll yell in here right away next time ;)
17:02<chillcore>I am, there is more then your bugsie ...
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17:02<chillcore>anyhoo have fun
17:02<romazoon>thanks, and good luck to you guys fixing stuff ;)
17:04<chillcore>ok next prob ... Im on a roll :P
17:05<chillcore>romazoon nif you know it is something in MHL you can report there too ;)
17:06<chillcore>otherwise on flyspray will do too
17:11<chillcore>going to bump my tgen patch now that the toolbar is fixed
17:11<romazoon>ok will do
17:22<chillcore>hmm the titlebar of my tgen gui dissapears when dragged while shaded
17:23<chillcore>another TODO :P
17:23<chillcore>for everyone I fix two more emerge hehe
17:23<chillcore>but I am not surprised ... it is a new gui from scratch
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17:30<romazoon>is planetmaker around ? i have a question for ogfx landscape...i want to know if the river at sea level bug was tackled in a recent nightly ? (the bug is that it shows wrong rivers sprites when built at sea level)
17:32<chillcore>take a screenshot and post it on FlySpray rmazoon?
17:32<chillcore>it is 23.30 around here ...
17:33<chillcore>he may or may not be here but this is not fixed in 5 secs
17:33<chillcore>and why not try a nighlty?
17:33<chillcore>you'll know immediatly
17:34<chillcore>what are you playing now?
17:34<chillcore>version I mean
17:36<romazoon>i m on the SE, so still R27025, so i wanna keep that version to finish my scenario
17:37<chillcore>hmm yeah best is to test recent trunk before reporting
17:37<chillcore>and why not upgrade?
17:38<romazoon>i just need mhl for the SE, and then i can have acompatible scenario with the latest patchpack, and more important to me the Cirdan Newmapfeature
17:38<chillcore>I see
17:38<romazoon>Cirdan is always a few revision behing the nightly (not blaming anyone, it s already great that he manageto follow commits)
17:39<chillcore>you'll have to live with it a little bit then
17:39<chillcore>only stable gets backports
17:39<romazoon>yes sure i m fine, actualy i haven t loaded ogfx landscape for that reason
17:39<chillcore>all the rest is fixed in current trunk
17:40<romazoon>sorry i mean haven t loaded ogfx cause i know the bug, will load it into the scenario later (at my own risk, lol )
17:41<chillcore>you should still check current trunk if you've got some time ... it mmay not have been fixed yet ... I do not kow
17:41<romazoon>yes, i will do, and report accordingly on flyspray, just not tonight ;) i prefer working on my scn right now ;)
17:42<chillcore>no wait till you've checked with recent trunk for reporting
17:42<chillcore>you SE should not be saved in a later rev or no going back
17:42<romazoon>hehe, that s what i meant, sorry
17:43<romazoon>i will not even try it in my scn for the report ;) adding a newgrf is not suported ;) i will load latest trunk, load latest nightly of ogfx landscape, try and report if necessary ;)
17:45<romazoon>and just a friendly word to you, it s nice to see you active in the community, you gave me countless hours of enjoyment with your patchpacks so i just can presume of the best seing you developing trunk now ;)
17:46<chillcore>Thank you a lot, that pleasures me very much to hear that
17:47<chillcore>I really needed a break and wanted to play some games myself for a bit
17:48<chillcore>and yeah doing smaller patches benefits more peeps
17:48<chillcore>maybe I'll do another one later but no promisses yet
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17:57<romazoon>well i have a feeling that patchpack are way less necessary than it use to be (autoseparation+mhl+script are probably the main factor for me telling this)
17:57<romazoon>hi samu
18:04<samu>oh, crap, it has newgrf set, restarting while no one joins
18:04<samu>k go
18:05<chillcore>true romazoon a lot of stuff was changed over the last years
18:06<chillcore>then again there are still so many many nive and usefull patches
18:06<chillcore>the god thing about me stopping for a bit is that others have stepped up that did not before because of my patchpack being there
18:06<samu>gonna find out if some disasters get rid of river tiles at the same time
18:08<chillcore>hmm there goes my spelling again ... typing to fast
18:08<chillcore>and not blind ... I need to learn that too
18:10<romazoon>indeed you are right, and more developer showing up only can prove to be a good thing overall :)
18:11<chillcore>hehe. I am not an official developer
18:11<chillcore>That would be ... unwise
18:12<chillcore>the ones that are have way better skills then me
18:13<chillcore>also I can afford to make many more misstakes now than if I would be commiting to trunk
18:13<chillcore>almost ... one day I made a misstake and tried commiting my patchpack to trunk
18:14<chillcore>it failed fortunately
18:14<chillcore>that would have been fun though ... surprise
18:16<romazoon>that would have been pretty epic mistake :)
18:17<chillcore>exept that would have meant a ton of broken savegames too ... non fixable
18:17<romazoon>while at it, did you had a chance to try Cirdan's works ? do you think it stand anychance to bring something to the trunk, or will it remain a fork for ever ?
18:17<chillcore>cirdan's map patches ...
18:18<chillcore>there is a ton of fixes in there that could benifit trunk
18:18<chillcore>hmm I could have a look in there too to change my mind from time to time
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18:18<chillcore>unless they got commited in the meantime
18:19<chillcore>as a whole they will never be commited that is sure
18:19<chillcore>piece by piece maybe
18:19<chillcore>just like my patchpack
18:19<chillcore>I would like all them patches in trunk
18:20<chillcore>but 1 at a time and splitted as they should be
18:20<chillcore>and then still ... after commit devs have to maintain so
18:20<chillcore>we'll see
18:21<romazoon>well that sound rather positiv to me, thanks for your point of view :)
18:21<romazoon>but sure we ll see
18:21<chillcore>thing is patches have to add something ... gameplaywise
18:22<chillcore>eg realism alone is not ennough
18:22<chillcore>it is a game afterall
18:22<chillcore>1 thing at a time
18:22<chillcore>MHL fist
18:22<chillcore>there are still some things
18:23<chillcore>generated terrain currently is not really ...
18:23<chillcore>that is what I am doing now ...
18:23<chillcore>can you compile for windows?
18:24<romazoon>sure mhl first :) then Custom bridge head ;) (just kiding)
18:24<romazoon>and no, still can t compile anything...i m a noob scenario developer :)
18:25<chillcore>Custom bridgeheads that is cirdan his patch
18:25<chillcore>I wouldnot know where to start hehe
18:26<romazoon>hahaha, well start by playing a game with it someday ;)
18:26<chillcore>I do not play that much ... I enjoy coding more
18:27<chillcore>although playing is fun too
18:28<chillcore>everytime I start playing a game I'm like hmm I need to fix that and that ... :P
18:28<chillcore>with my own patches that is
18:31<romazoon>well that s a mysterious way to play ottd for me (to devellop it), but you guys seems to be a bunch doing that a lot, so we might just add that to the list of different way to play openttd :P
18:31<romazoon>and without you, well Openttd would still be TTD
18:32<romazoon>you (coders and devs)
18:32<chillcore>yeah ... coding is like a virus that bites you ... or not
18:32<chillcore>damn neednew fingers :P
18:33<chillcore>I dunno there is something about loking for hours after a bug and then you fix it and go YEAH
18:33<chillcore>and then you look for the next one
18:34<jinks>It's a law of nature, if you want to enjoy playing a game never start changing it/develop mods for it. As soon as you've started every little annoyance you could live with before becomes instead a new coding challenge.
18:34<chillcore>also when coding games you do everything
18:35<chillcore>code, graphics, sound sometimes
18:35<chillcore>guis and interaction and flow
18:35<chillcore>it's all of it
18:45<romazoon>well seems like i m immune to that virus so far, i think i m affraid of the time that need to be invested only to get started
18:45<chillcore>it depends where you start romazoon
18:46<chillcore>if you do c++ immediatly then yes it takes a whole lot of time
18:46<romazoon>i would have to start from scratch
18:46<chillcore>that is not what I meant
18:46<romazoon>i mean i know nothing codewise
18:46<romazoon>no language or anything
18:46<chillcore>eg if you do htm and javascript then you get some easy results really fast
18:47<romazoon>i can barely use MS dos (and i grew up with it)
18:47<chillcore>hehe BASIC is where I started
18:48<romazoon>but how many years ago, i supose a few at least
18:48<chillcore>then moved on to html but got bored it being static
18:48<chillcore>hmm lets see ... 30-ish
18:48<chillcore>but I did not code all the time ... on and off
18:49<chillcore>spectrum zx81 ..; when my dad was not looking
18:49<romazoon>that is an impressive amount of time !
18:49<chillcore>then later he gave me his vic20 because he could not get on it anymore himself
18:49<romazoon>but congrats to you
18:50<romazoon>cause you ve learned all the way
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18:50<chillcore>I still do ... everytime I look at code that is not mine
18:51<chillcore>that is the great thing about it ... there is always a different way ... faster better smaller
18:51<chillcore>but I have to say that I learned most here
18:52<chillcore>because of feedback and help from these gods
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>zx81 was somewhat before my time :p
18:52<chillcore>and players that force me to look at things I would not have myself
18:53<chillcore>I just copied this game out of the manual eddi, slalom
18:53<chillcore>could not save so ...
18:53<romazoon>*praising the ottd gods
18:54<+glx>to save you needed a ram expansion et a magnetophone
18:54<chillcore>I remember when we had a babysitter from time to time ... before he left he was like "and keep him away from my machine"
18:55<chillcore>I did not break it or anything but ... yeah
18:55<chillcore>in our day, gosh that sounds old, we had no IT classes
18:57<chillcore>ye we had the expansion for ram ... and I'm sure if he had the magnetophone he hid it very well
18:57<chillcore>then the commodore 64 ... 30 mins to load a game
18:57<+glx>same for zx81 ;)
18:58<chillcore>it was kinda cool. we apreciated our games more, no?
18:58<romazoon>hahaha, always the "it was better in the old days",
18:58<+glx>yeah once loaded no switch :)
18:59<chillcore>just thinking about it and I can still here that noise
18:59<romazoon>but the truth, is it was different, and nostalgia makes memories always sweeter
18:59<chillcore>in a way romazoon
18:59<+glx>after zx81 we had cpc6128
18:59<+glx>easier :)
19:00<chillcore>some things have changed for the worse
19:00<chillcore>like when you have no internet 65% of your stuff stops working
19:01<romazoon>oh well, but how was it without internet ?
19:01<chillcore>never saw that one glx
19:01<+glx>even worse when internet shuts down in the middle of a game
19:01<chillcore>romazoon .... first two weeks great
19:01<chillcore>no drama
19:01<chillcore>peace and quiet
19:01<chillcore>sleeping at decent hours
19:01<chillcore>I have no cable tv so
19:02<chillcore>then it becomes a bit annoying because you want ot play game that do not work
19:02<+glx>worse when it's not a multiplayer game
19:02<chillcore>but I still have my consoles
19:03<chillcore>indeed glx
19:03<+glx>that's just silly
19:03<chillcore>I cleaned out my ipad and steam folder
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19:03<chillcore>no work ... delete delete delete
19:03<+glx>steam works offline
19:04<chillcore>to the point I almost removed it all and am now replacing my games with console versions
19:04<chillcore>ye it does
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19:04<chillcore>I tried to play drift ... starts ... plays ... no saving shiiiiiiiiiiiiit
19:05<+glx>ha yes cloud saving
19:05<chillcore>but some games do work yes
19:05<chillcore>there is not one game that uses cloud no more ... you can disable it in configs
19:05<chillcore>even dota
19:06<chillcore>^^^ ofcourse does not work ... everything starts and after 10 secs ingame it stops
19:06<chillcore>I think this is a sad evolution
19:06<+glx>well you still have openttd then ;)
19:06<chillcore>minecraft worked
19:07<chillcore>and openttd
19:07<romazoon>and it is a sad evolution chill
19:07<romazoon>especially that the reasons behind it at not really legitimate
19:07<+glx>it's against piracy
19:07<romazoon>well that s what you think
19:07<chillcore>true ... jsut stop buying them games ;)
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19:07<romazoon>or that s what they want you to believe
19:08<+glx>but only legitimate users are affected
19:08<chillcore>it takes them a week longer that is all
19:08<chillcore>like you say
19:08<romazoon>but the truth is they gather data on people, and make some more money on players ass
19:09<chillcore>ye even minecraft launchers have facebook and twitter and reddit icons in them
19:09<romazoon>they use the data to see if their game is still used and if an add on is a wise idea in term of business
19:09<chillcore>fuu google analytics even
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19:09<romazoon>personal data = goldmine
19:10<chillcore>just fight the power
19:10<romazoon>you heard the price for minecraft ? just insane
19:10<romazoon>3 billions....
19:10<chillcore>you mean what Notch received ...
19:11<romazoon>even in ottd i don t reach that
19:11<chillcore>I dunno romazoon ... OpenTTD is not commercial
19:11<chillcore>but there are a ton of players
19:12<romazoon>i mean in game, i don t manage to make 2.5 billion (just to say it s insane)
19:12<chillcore>you do not play long enough haha
19:12<chillcore>you continue after 2050?
19:13<romazoon>and i m lying...of course i reached that
19:13<chillcore>I never pay attention to my money
19:13<chillcore>for me it is about the network and such
19:13<chillcore>signals and decoration
19:13<romazoon>but anyway, it s not a valid comparison i know....i was just pretending it s insane, and they have more interest than just the game
19:14<chillcore>prob is that once you know the mechanics is is easy
19:14<chillcore>untill now MS handles it pretty well
19:15<chillcore>they left eula alone
19:15<chillcore>thank god
19:15<chillcore>one thing is sad ... notch did not give us the code as promissed
19:15<chillcore>can't bame him
19:15<chillcore>still sad-ish
19:16<romazoon>i know, nevver cared of money in game too, i love to make huge and fully interconnected$ networks were trains can never get lost and manage to handle the demand created by cargodist
19:17<chillcore>there are so many ways to play. that is one of the great things
19:17<romazoon>it is indeed... and so addictive it seems !
19:18<chillcore>that is because we coded coke in it :P
19:18<chillcore>it is even used in unis ... economics clases. at least so I heard
19:19<romazoon>the war free game is not a drug free game :P interesting
19:19<chillcore>free games or 'free' games?
19:19<chillcore>apple changed their labels
19:19<chillcore>no more free but get
19:20<romazoon>free as in excluded (drug free zone)
19:20<chillcore>now we need a law that stops the no refunds abuse
19:20<chillcore>and kickstarter and early access abuse
19:21<romazoon>what s that ?
19:21<chillcore>lot's of genuine projects but also lot's taht are not
19:21<chillcore>early acces you kow right?
19:21<romazoon>oh more clear now with the last sentence
19:21<chillcore>you pay for an alpha and play forever
19:21<chillcore>eg minecraft started at 5 euros and KSP too
19:21<chillcore>you invest
19:22<chillcore>and hope to get a complete game some day
19:22<romazoon>invest ? or you pay to play ? (invest mean getting some $ back at some point)
19:22<chillcore>same with kickstarter, kinda
19:22<chillcore>nono yu pay a low price and the game is yours
19:23<romazoon>but i think i see your point, people buys games early and they don t get finished entirely
19:23<romazoon>so it s an abuse
19:23<chillcore>yep and they do not get their money back
19:23<chillcore>with kixkstarter the same
19:24<chillcore>sometimes projects do fail because whatever
19:24<chillcore>it happens
19:24<romazoon>i see this happening with train fever, more or less (they don t even pretended to be an beta though....while it was an alpha really, and they made a release nonetheless and try to fix it still today (6 month after going out, there is a fix every two weeks)
19:24<chillcore>but some are ... grrrrrrrr
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19:25<chillcore>ye romazoon I do not know about this project ...
19:25<chillcore>be glad they are fixing it
19:25<romazoon>oh it s a game, it s out since 6 month
19:25<chillcore>ye ...
19:25<romazoon>the successor of ttd suposely
19:26<chillcore>OpenTTD has no competition
19:26<romazoon>well not successor, but inspired by
19:26<romazoon>it s all in 3d, with some real scale used (wich is insanely not fun to play)
19:26<chillcore>it's like rollercaoster tycoon .... many tried many more failed
19:27<chillcore>maybe Alberth his project some day ... FreeRCT
19:28<chillcore>it's what happened to rollercaoster 3 ... they made it 3D and it was ruined
19:28<chillcore>for me anyway
19:28<romazoon>but they nailed success really, the engine could make for an epic "transport" game...the gameplay is just not much "addictive" right now
19:28<chillcore>hello LorAro
19:28<LordAro>hey chillcore
19:30<romazoon>rollercoaster is a game i never tried, it s funny how i missed it given the time i spent on TTD as a kid, maybe one day i ll give it a shot (so i should try the second if i got you right )
19:31<chillcore>you should pick it up
19:32<chillcore>first and second with all the expansions
19:32<chillcore>the third is not that bad it is just that it is 3D and the atmosphere changed completely
19:32<chillcore>I missed an expansion and bought it again
19:33<romazoon>ok, thanks
19:33<chillcore>there is this ultimate pack ... 8 games ... I payed 14.95 euros
19:33<chillcore>brand new
19:34<chillcore>there are many great games ... older ones
19:34<chillcore>ever played Myst? and Oddworld?
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19:37<chillcore>oh great they let the reddit trolls out of their cages again :P
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19:42<romazoon>i did played Myst, i didn t understood anything (and remember of lags)...
19:43<chillcore>it is not the easiest of puzzles true
19:45<chillcore>most of the times solutions can be found for he who searches ... elsewhere
19:46<romazoon>hahaha good old days with game that made no sense, and people where not asking for a refund !
19:46<chillcore>depends which good old days
19:47<chillcore>once opened you could hardly get a refund but yu were allowd to sell on
19:47<romazoon>but well i was a good client, i spent hours trying to figure out "kings quest", a click and point adventure with commands to enter
19:47<chillcore>never played that one
19:47<romazoon>and at the time i was not even speaking english ! huahuahua (i had an english version, and still not complaining)
19:49<chillcore>Many of the games here were spoken in our own laguage
19:49<chillcore>not all ofcourse
19:50<chillcore>and they had movie clips with real actors too
19:50<romazoon>well i didn t had that chance ! except TTD :)
19:51<romazoon>of course i don t speak of console games, they were translated in french usually
19:52<romazoon>but PC games, i remember until mid 90's it wasn t common that i could get my hands on french version
19:52<chillcore>I am still looking for TTO for PSX ... nowhere to find and I am not fond of online shoping
19:53<romazoon>simcity, railroads tycoons, civilization I, all those i played in english...before speaking it "fluently"
19:53<romazoon>TTO for PSX, is that the 3d version, isn't it ?
19:53<chillcore>your english is not bad ... must have bbeen all them games :P
19:54<chillcore>yes I think so
19:54<chillcore>could have been TTD that was 3D ... it has been a long time
19:55<chillcore>hmm I started lagging
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19:55<chillcore>this things sais so
19:55<romazoon>but on psx, i only heard of one version...and it was the 3d version i believe. but i might be wrong. and i seems to talk to someone who knows much more than me on TtD history
19:56<chillcore>anyhoo 2AM time for a nappie
19:56<chillcore>was nice talking to you romazoon, see you around.
19:57<romazoon>it was nice, bye and good night
19:57<chillcore>there was aversion yes but I do not remember iwhich of the two it was
19:57<chillcore>anyhoo next time ;)
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---Logclosed Sun Feb 15 00:00:14 2015