| --- | Log | opened Tue Feb 17 00:00:17 2015 |
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| 03:10 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
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| 03:27 | <@Alberth> | moin |
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| 04:24 | <chillcore> | o/ |
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| 04:30 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
| 04:31 | <SpComb> | o7 |
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| 04:39 | <chillcore> | not safe for work if people around you understand/speak french |
| 04:39 | <chillcore> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjgRIiMix3o |
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| 04:46 | <@Alberth> | I don't understand it :) |
| 04:46 | <chillcore> | still nice melody I hope ;) |
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| 04:53 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
| 04:54 | <@planetmaker> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkjfbsgzy <-- Alberth that's nmlc's current changelog. Is there anything you think needs doing before it can be released? |
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| 04:55 | <@Alberth> | nice :) |
| 04:56 | <@Alberth> | I wouldn't know, nml & newgrf is still a big mystery to me :) |
| 04:56 | <@Alberth> | frosch would have a better idea about it, probably |
| 04:57 | <@planetmaker> | last evening I found out a new OpenGFX really needs a new NML, no sensible way around. And it can easier be 0.4.0 than 0.3.2 |
| 05:00 | <V453000> | :0 |
| 05:00 | <@Alberth> | makes sense :) |
| 05:00 | <V453000> | hy humanz |
| 05:01 | <@planetmaker> | hihi |
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| 07:16 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 07:17 | <V453000> | \Q |
| 07:18 | <@Alberth> | birds-eye view :) |
| 07:24 | <chillcore> | hehe, talking about birds, I have one in the back that likes cookies. This morning it flew down instead of up when opening the door. yay |
| 07:24 | <chillcore> | Don't know what it is called in english. Merel in dutch |
| 07:24 | <chillcore> | anyhoo |
| 07:24 | <chillcore> | so much rewriting to be done still ... |
| 07:25 | <chillcore> | first fixing this crash |
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| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | did I upload Busy Bee on my bananas account, not coop? |
| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | oops |
| 07:28 | <V453000> | BURN IN HELL |
| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 07:29 | <andythenorth> | I only have a bananas account by accident |
| 07:29 | <V453000> | XD |
| 07:30 | <chillcore> | imagine what would have happened had you chosen too ... ;) |
| 07:30 | <chillcore> | -o |
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| 07:34 | <chillcore> | andy: about them million USB drives ... would be so I could rip out all these hardrives out of them public computers and have those that have no computers at home bring their own OS and storage? |
| 07:35 | <chillcore> | that weay they can be stupid as much as they want without infecting others |
| 07:35 | <chillcore> | ? |
| 07:35 | <chillcore> | not that I have the money ... nor jurisdiction to do that ... |
| 07:36 | <chillcore> | those that run these pcs can still check traffic ... |
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| 07:37 | <chillcore> | or limit |
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| 07:41 | <samu> | hello |
| 07:42 | <chillcore> | hello |
| 07:43 | <samu> | i want to read yesterday's night chat log, forgot what I was going to do today |
| 07:44 | <samu> | broken mind |
| 07:44 | <samu> | ah |
| 07:44 | <samu> | http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd |
| 07:44 | <samu> | found it |
| 07:49 | <andythenorth> | chillcore: http://keepod.org |
| 07:51 | <chillcore> | Thx andy. |
| 08:32 | <samu> | hmm before advancing into my next step |
| 08:33 | <samu> | which is canal tiles built on top of river tiles to have a different cost than canal tiles built on non-river tiles |
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| 08:33 | <samu> | i need to know how would the game handle destruction of a canal tile that was built on a river tile |
| 08:34 | <samu> | it currently removed all, doesn't revert back to river |
| 08:34 | <samu> | removes* |
| 08:34 | <samu> | that is, in my opinion, wrong |
| 08:35 | <chillcore> | ared you using buldozer or removal tool? |
| 08:35 | <samu> | dynamite |
| 08:35 | <samu> | there's no remove |
| 08:36 | <chillcore> | ctrl+build click? |
| 08:36 | <samu> | doesn't turn red |
| 08:36 | <chillcore> | a challange ... |
| 08:36 | <chillcore> | hehe |
| 08:36 | <samu> | removing isn't implemented on rivers |
| 08:36 | <samu> | oops, canals |
| 08:39 | <samu> | thinking of my future finalized mission, I would have river tiles that are permanent, but terraformable |
| 08:40 | <samu> | have to do this in steps towards that goal |
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| 08:43 | <samu> | i imagine i will have a hell of a job understanding slopes |
| 08:43 | <samu> | and terraform |
| 08:44 | <chillcore> | and rivers :P |
| 08:46 | <samu> | if everything goes as planned, then the final thing to do is dried and watered river tiles, canals, locks, everything related to having water pretty much, and letting water flood up-level |
| 08:46 | <samu> | up-level and down-level |
| 08:47 | <samu> | then, the pricing structure |
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| 08:47 | <samu> | i guess |
| 08:47 | <samu> | and it's done, lel |
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| 09:03 | <@Alberth> | isn't the point of rivers that you cannot change them? |
| 09:03 | <@Alberth> | just like antennas and light houses? |
| 09:04 | <@Alberth> | ie making rivers non-deletable would be a good step |
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| 09:17 | <samu> | back |
| 09:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Alberth: but then, why allow terraforming water at all? |
| 09:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, there may be cases for rerouting rivers, i.e. building a canal and then cutting off the river from its old flow |
| 09:22 | <@Alberth> | true |
| 09:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Alberth: i'd much rather have an algorithm that checks whether the river spring is still connected to the sea, and forbid destroying if not |
| 09:22 | <@Alberth> | +1 |
| 09:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, same algorithm for city roads being connected to the city center |
| 09:23 | <@Alberth> | gets quite complicated perhaps |
| 09:23 | <chillcore> | maybe just remember that this was a water tile when building canals to restore it in that case only? |
| 09:23 | <@Alberth> | ie you shouldn't be able to destroy the canal |
| 09:24 | <chillcore> | even not if it reverted to river? |
| 09:24 | <chillcore> | i like eddi's idea |
| 09:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Alberth: there should be enough bits available to store whether a canal is used for river flow, to prevent destroying the canal in that case |
| 09:25 | <@Alberth> | chillcore: I was talking about eddi's idea, build a canal around something, destroy the river, and prevent then destroying the canal |
| 09:25 | <chillcore> | if spring destroyed remove 'was river' flag form tiles |
| 09:26 | <chillcore> | ah like that ye that is still a good idea |
| 09:26 | <chillcore> | spring connect to sea whenever and always |
| 09:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if destroying a canal/river with the flag set, invoke the pathfinder from the left to the right tile |
| 09:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if alternate path found, invert the flag on this alternate path, otherwise, forbid destruction |
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| 09:27 | <chillcore> | then just make those destroyed canals rivers automatically when if it is the last connextion to sea |
| 09:28 | <chillcore> | might get heavy on the patchfinder? |
| 09:28 | <chillcore> | i dunn |
| 09:28 | <andythenorth> | ho |
| 09:28 | <andythenorth> | rivers |
| 09:28 | <andythenorth> | are silly |
| 09:28 | <chillcore> | hihi |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | invoking the pathfinder on user interaction shouldn't be significant... |
| 09:30 | * | andythenorth usually just bulldozes rivers |
| 09:30 | <chillcore> | true |
| 09:30 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: it's easier not to make them :) |
| 09:31 | <chillcore> | building rivers will then be very expensive too |
| 09:31 | <chillcore> | first yuou needd to build canal then destroy it |
| 09:32 | <chillcore> | only available on feb 29 |
| 09:32 | <chillcore> | :P |
| 09:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | chillcore: i don't think the player should be able to degrade canals into rivers |
| 09:34 | <chillcore> | ok |
| 09:35 | <andythenorth> | simplest idea |
| 09:35 | <andythenorth> | remove them from the game |
| 09:36 | <andythenorth> | just lower land instead |
| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: you find that this is not simple at all. |
| 09:36 | <@planetmaker> | except on February 30th, of course |
| 09:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: so only when playing with swedish localization in the 1700s? :p |
| 09:37 | <@planetmaker> | dunno, maybe? :) |
| 09:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "if halloween falls on a friday the 13th" |
| 09:39 | <andythenorth> | eh, how hard can it be to diff out rivers and canals? o_O |
| 09:39 | <andythenorth> | break savegames |
| 09:39 | <andythenorth> | problem solved |
| 09:40 | <samu> | :) nice chat |
| 09:40 | <chillcore> | it would clean out afterload ... two flies xD |
| 09:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | can we ban andythenorth? so many problems solved. |
| 09:41 | <andythenorth> | there is no easy reverse diff for andythenorth |
| 09:42 | <andythenorth> | rivers are rubbish currently |
| 09:42 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 09:43 | <samu> | ah, when clearing a river, it clears it of water, but the river foundation stays |
| 09:44 | <samu> | it will re-flood |
| 09:44 | <samu> | in my vision, all rivers will be re-flooded no mater how much you clear them |
| 09:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i can't imagine why comments are disabled on this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE (probably NSFW) |
| 09:46 | <samu> | canal tiles won't be terraformable, even if they're built on river |
| 09:46 | <samu> | I imagine the procedure to be like this: remove canal first, then terraform |
| 09:46 | <andythenorth> | I’m really unconvinced that rivers are ‘solvable' |
| 09:47 | <samu> | removing canal will not destroy the river tile, but will revert to river tile |
| 09:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: then really, why even allow clearing them? |
| 09:47 | <andythenorth> | respawn is problematic |
| 09:47 | <samu> | because of pricing structure |
| 09:47 | <andythenorth> | pathfinding to enforce flow is problematic |
| 09:47 | <andythenorth> | making them immovables is problematic |
| 09:47 | <samu> | must be cheap when clearing dry tiles |
| 09:48 | * | andythenorth considers a hack |
| 09:48 | <andythenorth> | enforcing an edge connection check when clearing |
| 09:48 | <andythenorth> | horrible, pathfinder would be more elegant, but would be simple to understand |
| 09:48 | <andythenorth> | so a river could be moved, but not broken |
| 09:49 | <andythenorth> | an edge connection check (or pathfinder) should be able to enforce that the flow cannot be interrupted |
| 09:50 | <samu> | terraforming a river is the bigger puzzle that i need to solve |
| 09:50 | <samu> | in my head |
| 09:51 | <samu> | in essence, I want the river to be always connected |
| 09:51 | <andythenorth> | enforce that flow cannot be broken |
| 09:51 | <samu> | what can chance is the slope directions |
| 09:52 | <samu> | and drying them of water |
| 09:52 | <andythenorth> | basically I am +lots to Eddi’s suggestion |
| 09:52 | <andythenorth> | we need canals that are not so ugly :P |
| 09:52 | <samu> | typo: what can change* are the slope directions |
| 09:53 | <@Alberth> | samu how do propose to have a slope changed? |
| 09:54 | <samu> | that is part of the puzzle |
| 09:54 | <@Alberth> | since a non-flat, non-steep slope has exactly 2 corners raised at all times |
| 09:54 | <samu> | it needs to know direction, via drag and drop |
| 09:54 | <andythenorth> | also I should make that rivers grf |
| 09:54 | <andythenorth> | with custom corners |
| 09:54 | <samu> | similar to path signals |
| 09:54 | <andythenorth> | so they look less terrible |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | and locks should be two tiles |
| 09:55 | <samu> | minimum is 2 tiles |
| 09:55 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: make a newobject river :p |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | and rivers should carve a canyon |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | bah |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | rivers |
| 09:55 | <@Alberth> | too bad you cannot bridge them :p |
| 09:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: better locks need state machines |
| 09:55 | * | andythenorth hates rivers |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: if we live long enough, someone will do your state machines :) |
| 09:55 | <andythenorth> | so many use cases |
| 09:56 | <samu> | terraforming river tiles needs direction, and this is gonna be my headache |
| 09:56 | <samu> | keks |
| 09:58 | <samu> | terraform will need some special capability to "mold" a river into a slope direction |
| 09:59 | <samu> | there is no possibility to build a river tile |
| 09:59 | <samu> | currently |
| 09:59 | <samu> | but I imagine that's something that I will need, and it's only available for the terraforming tool |
| 09:59 | <@Alberth> | start with drag/drop rivers in the SE ? |
| 09:59 | <andythenorth> | you want river to follow contour? |
| 10:00 | <andythenorth> | so when changing contour, river adapts? |
| 10:00 | <samu> | i mean it like this: raise 2 corner of a flat river tile |
| 10:01 | <samu> | what terraform will do is: destroy the river tile, not just dry it, but remove it, raise those 2 corners, then re-build the river tole as a slope |
| 10:01 | <samu> | river tile* |
| 10:01 | <samu> | demolishing via dynamite however, will only dry the river |
| 10:02 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 10:02 | <samu> | so, this ability to really destroy the river is only for this terraforming specialty |
| 10:02 | * | andythenorth goes back to something else |
| 10:02 | <andythenorth> | but yeah, rivers. Maybe a new class of thing - not immovables, but uninterruptables |
| 10:03 | <andythenorth> | also, why don’t we have glaciers? |
| 10:03 | <andythenorth> | and lava flows? |
| 10:03 | <@Alberth> | /me has disasters disabled |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: i don't think you need to destroy the river tile for that |
| 10:04 | <samu> | and the pricing must also make sense |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: but only allow changing both corners is... problematic |
| 10:05 | <andythenorth> | lava flow might be a disaster |
| 10:05 | <andythenorth> | glacier is just an obstacle :) |
| 10:05 | <andythenorth> | also transport type |
| 10:05 | <andythenorth> | http://www.brewster.ca/brewster_travel/media/Images/Rocky-Mountains/Destinations/Columbia-Icefield/Activities/Columbia-Icefield-Glacier-Adventure/BN-Destination-GlacierAdventure.jpg?width=1400&height=506&ext=.jpg |
| 10:05 | * | andythenorth has been on that Brewster bus |
| 10:07 | <samu> | changing both corners? |
| 10:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, we have glaciers in the alps, but not for long anymore :p |
| 10:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: terraforming is done per corner. so in your "imagination" checking to change one corner requires to check whether the other corner gets changed during the same command at a later time (which may have currently unknown restrictions), and also checking that the other corners will not change |
| 10:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so requiring to change two corners is both unweildy from a user's point of view, as well as from a programmers point of view |
| 10:11 | <samu> | ah, I see, it needs to know which direction it is terraforming |
| 10:11 | <berndj> | is there a way to set up bus routes so they don't cross rails? when maglevs get fast enough eventually collisions become inevitable when the train zooms in out of nowhere |
| 10:11 | <samu> | if it knows, then I believe it can work for the remaining tiles, at least in theory, it's just that I'm not really totally sure of it |
| 10:12 | <andythenorth> | berndj: bridges |
| 10:12 | <andythenorth> | tunnels |
| 10:13 | <berndj> | if i provide a road network that's grade-separated and dense enough, is the city guaranteed not to build its own crashy roads? |
| 10:13 | <V453000> | just dont allow towns to build roads, easy enough |
| 10:14 | * | andythenorth wonders how python handles circular refs |
| 10:14 | <andythenorth> | I have a Consist object, which I store in a list in Roster object |
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| 10:14 | <andythenorth> | and the Consist also has the Roster object in a property... |
| 10:15 | <andythenorth> | I know it’s all references, but still |
| 10:15 | <andythenorth> | seems like an easy route to infinite recursion |
| 10:15 | <andythenorth> | or is that ‘programmer beware'? |
| 10:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | berndj: busses avoid level crossings, if a nearby route does not have any. and you can forbid towns from building level crossings |
| 10:16 | * | chillcore hides from anything that has exceptions |
| 10:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | berndj: also, fast railtypes can forbid level crossings, if the NewGRF chooses to do so |
| 10:16 | <berndj> | ah, if i can find that setting then i'll just use that - it feels undemocratic to not allow them to build at all |
| 10:16 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: sounds fine to me, except perhaps some consistency problems |
| 10:18 | <andythenorth> | k |
| 10:18 | <@Alberth> | circular references are handled fine in newer pythons, since python 2.<ages-ago> |
| 10:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | circular references are sometimes an issue with garbage collection. |
| 10:19 | <@Alberth> | if worried, just remove the list reference |
| 10:20 | <samu> | dragging signals works |
| 10:21 | <samu> | something similar will be needed for this |
| 10:21 | <samu> | dragging corners |
| 10:21 | <@Alberth> | dragging signals? |
| 10:22 | <@Alberth> | I usually drag just 2-3 tiles |
| 10:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: you can already do that |
| 10:23 | <samu> | to decide which direction to terraform a specific river tile, it must know the direction at which it will slope the river |
| 10:23 | <@Alberth> | dragging road is more similar, imho |
| 10:23 | <samu> | ah yeh, road yes |
| 10:23 | <samu> | they have one-way |
| 10:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that will probably not help you at all |
| 10:24 | <samu> | no? |
| 10:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you should better invest your time into removing the restriction of rivers needing both corners raised in a slope |
| 10:26 | <samu> | but there are no graphics for that |
| 10:26 | <chillcore> | yet? |
| 10:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, but they could be made |
| 10:33 | <samu> | it would simplify terraform, I see |
| 10:33 | <@planetmaker> | getting those river sprites for the other slopes is not *that* difficult |
| 10:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | needs potentially a bit of fuzz for legacy NewGRFs |
| 10:35 | * | andythenorth would draw them for TTD base set style |
| 10:35 | <andythenorth> | I drew all the other bloody river sprites for the base set :) |
| 10:35 | <andythenorth> | in all the variations :P |
| 10:35 | <andythenorth> | drew / fixed |
| 10:36 | <samu> | is water painted onto a river tile? |
| 10:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, it's all one sprite |
| 10:36 | <samu> | crap :( |
| 10:36 | <andythenorth> | it’s many many sprites :P |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, potentially the shores are drawn on top of a water sprite |
| 10:39 | <samu> | how does the snow gets painted in a river |
| 10:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no idea. actually |
| 10:40 | <samu> | don't paint water, paint ice |
| 10:40 | <samu> | if on snow |
| 10:41 | <samu> | gee |
| 10:41 | <samu> | i don't wanna draw |
| 10:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | flowing rivers don't freeze that easily |
| 10:41 | <samu> | it shouldn't be painting a brown thingy if it's dry though |
| 10:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i still have no idea what you need dry rivers for |
| 10:43 | <samu> | ok, back to yesterday |
| 10:43 | <samu> | i have something to finish |
| 10:45 | <samu> | +glx told me i have to improve this coding block static void ChangeTileOwner_Water(TileIndex tile, Owner old_owner, Owner new_owner) |
| 10:45 | <samu> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pft3rt0m2?/pft3rt0m2 |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: so uninterruptables? Simple pathfinder check? |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | can’t be much more sophisticated than the ship routing check on adding orders |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | is there any pathological case where a river has two outlets to the sea? |
| 10:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a delta. |
| 10:49 | * | andythenorth wonders if there is no routing check on adding orders |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | maybe it’s just crow-flies distance to next bouy / dock |
| 10:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the order check is manhattan distance, probably |
| 10:50 | <andythenorth> | where many rivers converge, the pathfinder could spend a lot of time evaluating dead ends |
| 10:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: the way i imagine it, a river gets (on map generation, scenario editor might need some handling of this as well) a spring and a sink assigned, and every tile in a pathfinder run between them gets a flag set that this river tile is part of a flow (potentially with direction) |
| 10:51 | <@planetmaker> | not sure that the sink needs assignment a priori |
| 10:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if a river converges with another one, the pathfinder stops at this converging point |
| 10:51 | <andythenorth> | so it’s cached, rather than checked on bulldoze? |
| 10:52 | <andythenorth> | if tile knew next tile(s), then it’s just a list |
| 10:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. |
| 10:52 | <andythenorth> | and the list can’t be broken |
| 10:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, each tile has exactly 4 adjacent tiles |
| 10:53 | <andythenorth> | hrm multiprocessing really does break object refs |
| 10:53 | <andythenorth> | nvm |
| 10:54 | <andythenorth> | urgh, does mercurial actually feature revert? |
| 10:55 | <@planetmaker> | of course |
| 10:55 | <@planetmaker> | hg revert (for uncommitted); hg backout (for committed some time ago) |
| 10:56 | <andythenorth> | ah backout :) |
| 10:56 | <@Alberth> | hg rollback for undoing the last commit-ish action |
| 10:56 | <andythenorth> | searching for revert just got me pages of people who haven’t pushed yet :P |
| 10:56 | <@planetmaker> | Alberth, with evolve there's hg uncommit ;) |
| 10:57 | <@planetmaker> | or you could hg qimport the last changeset |
| 10:57 | <@planetmaker> | many roads to Rome |
| 10:58 | * | andythenorth uses backout |
| 10:58 | <andythenorth> | see if that works :P |
| 10:58 | <andythenorth> | that = Iron Horse broken compile |
| 10:59 | <samu> | a river slope blocks pathing for ships |
| 11:00 | <samu> | no matter what |
| 11:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: so? |
| 11:01 | <samu> | i don't know about the pathfinding |
| 11:01 | <samu> | what I observe is that it needs a lock |
| 11:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | pathfinding is heavily customizable in that matter |
| 11:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i.e. a river flow pathfinder can have much different restrictions than a ship pathfinder |
| 11:03 | <samu> | ah |
| 11:03 | <samu> | so there must be two |
| 11:03 | <samu> | one for water, one for ships |
| 11:05 | <samu> | i thought water flooding behaviour was already done |
| 11:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | water flooding does not have (or need) a pathfinder |
| 11:08 | <samu> | it needs to check the next tile adjacent to it, if it can flood it or not, and how to transform that tile when it floods, I guess |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | that’s just ‘next tile’ |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | no pathfinder really |
| 11:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: there would be no flooding in my suggestion |
| 11:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: just a search for an alternate connection that already is water |
| 11:10 | <samu> | coast tiles are transformed a little bit |
| 11:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that has no connection to the problem... |
| 11:10 | <samu> | every river will become "coasts"-alike, except how they're drawn |
| 11:11 | <samu> | i think |
| 11:11 | <samu> | but i'm not expert on that matter |
| 11:11 | * | andythenorth whips the horse a bit |
| 11:13 | <@planetmaker> | https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107191069901530811927/albums/5588142349480607121/6116847710531828738?pid=6116847710531828738&oid=107191069901530811927 <-- that will happen, andythenorth ;) |
| 11:16 | <andythenorth> | apparently I broke it |
| 11:16 | <andythenorth> | bundles is cross with me |
| 11:18 | * | andythenorth looks at Jenkins |
| 11:22 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 11:22 | <andythenorth> | yeah, it’s going to fail on the failing commit :P |
| 11:23 | <andythenorth> | it hasn’t built the 2 most recent |
| 11:23 | <samu> | will this subtract 1 water maintenance to the owner_none? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pudp2meuk |
| 11:23 | <samu> | ah the lines 39-41 |
| 11:25 | <samu> | i guess not |
| 11:26 | <samu> | damn i forgot what I had to do |
| 11:30 | <samu> | DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, DC_EXEC | DC_BANKRUPT, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); |
| 11:30 | <samu> | what's a do comand |
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| 11:31 | <samu> | the tile bankrupts? |
| 11:31 | <andythenorth> | company bankrupts |
| 11:31 | <andythenorth> | dunno what that actually relates to though |
| 11:31 | <samu> | it destroys a ship depot on bankrupt |
| 11:32 | <samu> | it is pointing to tile |
| 11:32 | <@planetmaker> | I can try look later, andythenorth. But no promise I manage today |
| 11:32 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: I think it’s just failed to build on push |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | oh actually no |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | 1083: Codechange: move to a python 3 compile (experimental) |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | will be the offender :) |
| 11:34 | * | andythenorth forgot about bundles python version |
| 11:34 | <andythenorth> | FIRS may have same issue |
| 11:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: the command that it executes is the last parameter of DoCommand(P) |
| 11:36 | <andythenorth> | ah no, FIRS has a branch for python 3, so default branch still builds |
| 11:36 | <andythenorth> | ho ho |
| 11:36 | <andythenorth> | ‘progress’ :) |
| 11:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: before that are the "flags", which usually means DC_EXEC: actually do it (don't just check how much it costs). DC_BANKRUPT probably means don't let lack of money prevent it |
| 11:38 | <samu> | ah, makes sense now |
| 11:41 | <samu> | how could I tell the game is doing the right thing for the old_owner if this company bankrupts |
| 11:42 | <samu> | i have no way to visualize it in-game |
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| 11:48 | <samu> | bug or intended? start a game via Play scenario, then type in console restart. it doesn't restart that scenario |
| 11:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, it starts a new game with the same random seed as the old game |
| 11:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that may or may not result in the same map, depending on other circumstances (like game version, settings, newgrfs, ...) |
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| 12:10 | <samu> | doo dee |
| 12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | dabadee dabadai |
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| 12:11 | <samu> | i'm confused at my own code lol |
| 12:12 | <samu> | i threw it in, and it works |
| 12:12 | <samu> | but i can't verify if it works for every case |
| 12:12 | <samu> | how do I play as the owner_none, if that is even possible |
| 12:14 | <@planetmaker> | you can't. owner_none is the game itself |
| 12:16 | <samu> | i rather ask |
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| 12:17 | <samu> | i have the code like this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7qjxwaex |
| 12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: you can make tests like that by setting a breakpoint, and wait for the program to go through that line of code, then single step and watch what the variables do |
| 12:19 | <samu> | i forgot |
| 12:20 | <samu> | if (!IsTileOwner(tile, old_owner)) return; |
| 12:20 | <samu> | what does this mean |
| 12:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that means skip tiles that are not owned by old_owner |
| 12:21 | <@Alberth> | that's why have generated documentation samu, there are tooooo many functions to know them all |
| 12:21 | <@Alberth> | so you can look up what functions do |
| 12:21 | <@Alberth> | +we |
| 12:22 | <samu> | old_owner must be a company? or can it also be a no_owner? |
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| 12:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no idea |
| 12:24 | <samu> | :) |
| 12:24 | <@Alberth> | don't know either |
| 12:24 | <@Alberth> | read the source code :) |
| 12:26 | <chillcore> | hmm if I allow changing values in scenarioeditor like in r27151 ... I do not need that _game_mode hack no more? |
| 12:26 | <@planetmaker> | what values? |
| 12:27 | <chillcore> | smoothness ... for starters ... |
| 12:27 | <chillcore> | just smoothness for now |
| 12:27 | <chillcore> | i go into menu mode change and back to SE mode |
| 12:27 | <@planetmaker> | smoothness is a thing used during map gen... thus it's pointless when there's already a map. But it makes sense to allow setting those in SE when you're about to generate a map |
| 12:28 | <chillcore> | ^^^ that ... i need to be able to change or this patch is pretty much useles haha |
| 12:28 | <chillcore> | just that that hack is ugly |
| 12:29 | <chillcore> | just the diffuculty setting though noy so for the params |
| 12:30 | <samu> | i think +glx is wrong on this, or i don't see what he meant |
| 12:32 | <andythenorth> | pythoon |
| 12:32 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 12:32 | <andythenorth> | typo |
| 12:32 | <samu> | there are two ways to transfer ownership. Bankrupt and company merge. I always have to subtract watermaintenance no matter the case |
| 12:32 | <samu> | why do i have to do it per case' |
| 12:32 | <andythenorth> | not many translator commits in FIRS :P |
| 12:34 | <samu> | subtract once, no matter the case, then if it's a merge, add once |
| 12:34 | <samu> | if it's a bankrupt... leave it be |
| 12:35 | <samu> | or am i missing the point? |
| 12:36 | <samu> | what am i doing wrong, can you help |
| 12:37 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: change more strings :p |
| 12:38 | <samu> | this was correct already, and now it's not |
| 12:38 | <samu> | :( |
| 12:38 | <samu> | unless I'm missing something |
| 12:39 | <samu> | let me show you my two versions |
| 12:39 | <samu> | brb |
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| 12:42 | <samu> | today's version -> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7qjxwaex |
| 12:42 | <samu> | yesterday's version -> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptp0qnve4 |
| 12:44 | <samu> | which one is correct? or are they both doing the same? |
| 12:44 | <chillcore> | Alberth I edited two pictures in my last post. thoughts? |
| 12:45 | <chillcore> | that one still has a very still slope I know ... more shape of terrain there |
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| 12:46 | <chillcore> | that is at level 199 |
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| 12:48 | <@Alberth> | the detailed one looks quite useless? |
| 12:48 | <chillcore> | with our without smallmap? the one without has the wwhole map like that ... almost no steaap slopes |
| 12:49 | <chillcore> | IIRC. there is a lot of finetuning left i agree |
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| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | without smallmap |
| 12:50 | <chillcore> | it is stiil rough yes |
| 12:51 | <@Alberth> | you're generating a world, zooooming to a specific spot is probably less useful |
| 12:51 | <@Alberth> | (although no doubt there are users claiming the opposite :) ) |
| 12:52 | <chillcore> | prob is when I start toying with that I get mesmerized and no much coding happens :P |
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| 12:53 | <chillcore> | in the end it is still simply going up yes, but you sometimes have to think wat route to take because the terrain is hardly terraformable |
| 12:53 | <chillcore> | once towns and industries come into play |
| 12:53 | <@Alberth> | oh, toying has its merits too :) |
| 12:53 | <chillcore> | industries create flats, which causes terraforming |
| 12:54 | <@Alberth> | maybe we need other terraforming tools too now |
| 12:54 | <chillcore> | so they create and inaccesible side sometimes |
| 12:54 | <chillcore> | yes ... still a few niggles |
| 12:54 | <@Alberth> | ie 16 levels high is quite doable by raising a single point |
| 12:54 | <chillcore> | need shortening save load code |
| 12:54 | <chillcore> | and loading presets |
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| 12:55 | <chillcore> | probably yes |
| 12:55 | <samu> | glx: hi |
| 12:55 | <chillcore> | but for trunk I think these presets have priority |
| 12:55 | <chillcore> | bugs me that peeps see that terrain as default |
| 12:56 | <chillcore> | as custom it is your choice |
| 12:56 | <chillcore> | anyhoo ... removing ugly hack |
| 12:57 | <samu> | i am in need of help |
| 13:00 | <chillcore> | <Alberth> ie 16 levels high is quite doable by raising a single point <- unless you are raising a really really long slope |
| 13:00 | <chillcore> | then it hangs a bit ... at least it used to |
| 13:01 | <chillcore> | unless you want to build a pyramide ... that does not happen much |
| 13:03 | <samu> | glx, yesterday night you told me that I had to fix transfer ownership. today i look into it but i think there's nothing to fix |
| 13:03 | <samu> | +glx |
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| 13:05 | <frosch123> | [18:28] <chillcore> ^^^ that ... i need to be able to change or this patch is pretty much useles haha <- there is a difference between "current game" settings, and "new game" settings |
| 13:05 | <frosch123> | you can change smoothness for "new game" settings, but it is pointless for "current game" settings |
| 13:06 | <chillcore> | if I try to change smoothness settinh without my hack the game happily crashes |
| 13:07 | <+glx> | samu: it's not a fix, but an optimisation |
| 13:07 | <chillcore> | I did not yet try after adding the SE flag |
| 13:07 | <samu> | 00:05:16 <+glx> maybe you could merge the tests in ChangeOwner |
| 13:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: the + is not acually prt of the nick :p |
| 13:09 | <chillcore> | frosh: when you generate a new scnewrio you stat from scratch and the difficulty is changed |
| 13:09 | <+glx> | yes you have an if (is_lock_middle) followed by an if (canal && is_lock_middle) |
| 13:09 | <chillcore> | but while messing wwith my gui the "game" has already started |
| 13:09 | <@planetmaker> | difficulty is a deprecated thing. It can't be different than 'custom' (=3?) |
| 13:10 | <chillcore> | in a later stage the game is restarted again and that is fine, setting are kept |
| 13:11 | <chillcore> | in my gui yes |
| 13:11 | <chillcore> | not in the game |
| 13:11 | <chillcore> | I load them in defaults |
| 13:11 | <chillcore> | in custom I mean |
| 13:11 | <samu> | aha, i think i understand what you mean, ok let me edit it |
| 13:12 | <chillcore> | but for as far as the code is concerned if you select eg smooth and not change nothing you are not in custom mode for that setting |
| 13:12 | <chillcore> | think ... score |
| 13:12 | <chillcore> | it is disconnected somewhat |
| 13:13 | <chillcore> | hmm how do I explain this ... |
| 13:13 | <chillcore> | in tgen gui all is custom ... if settings match easy ... difficulty remains easy in score |
| 13:15 | <chillcore> | I kept that behaviour intact ... i hope |
| 13:15 | <frosch123> | there is no difficulty setting anymore that affects smoothness |
| 13:15 | <chillcore> | hmm ok |
| 13:16 | <samu> | here it is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pg37zx0bm |
| 13:17 | <frosch123> | savegame version 177 removes the difficulty level |
| 13:17 | <+glx> | samu: yes, but you forgot the new one :) |
| 13:18 | <samu> | new one? |
| 13:18 | -!- | luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz |
| 13:19 | <+glx> | 3 lines later |
| 13:19 | <andythenorth> | bloody garratts :) |
| 13:19 | * | andythenorth is having issues with articulated engines |
| 13:20 | <frosch123> | are they better than issues with liveries? |
| 13:20 | <samu> | ah, this part? if (GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && is_lock_middle) { |
| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: yes, they are :P |
| 13:20 | <chillcore> | frosh only 2.5k revisions ago eh ... :P |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | just wrong length sprites, with wrong offsets |
| 13:21 | <samu> | it needs to be inside the if (new_owner != INVALID_OWNER) { |
| 13:21 | <+glx> | but you can do the same thing |
| 13:24 | <samu> | oh yah, i am idiot, it was right between these 2 |
| 13:24 | <samu> | ok let me do |
| 13:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | *mental note* you can't skip songs on the radio |
| 13:27 | <samu> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pt53yaqwv |
| 13:28 | <+glx> | alignment ;) |
| 13:29 | <samu> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppynulxhp |
| 13:30 | <samu> | :o |
| 13:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | is that just me or should canals be not removed upon bankrupcy, because they are common infrastructure (like roads)? |
| 13:33 | <samu> | they're not removed already |
| 13:33 | <+glx> | they are not removed, they get OWNER_NONE |
| 13:33 | <@planetmaker> | frosch123, I meant to ask you: anything you want to see done before nml 0.4.0? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkjfbsgzy?/pkjfbsgzy |
| 13:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then that comment is probably misleading |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | I need it for OpenGFX-next |
| 13:34 | <frosch123> | - Feature: Cache position where previous search ended for more speed. <- what's that? |
| 13:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | /* Only subtract from the old owner here if the new owner is valid,otherwise we clear ship depots and canal water below. */ |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | frosch123, check commit logs. Dunno :) |
| 13:34 | <frosch123> | not english, is it? :p |
| 13:34 | <+glx> | depot is removed |
| 13:34 | <+glx> | but canal stay |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | probably your own words ;) |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | anyway, i have nothing that needs to make 0.4 or something |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | not sure how much work you want to put into the changelog |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | but it has a lot of redundancy |
| 13:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: in english, word order is probably a bit more relevant than in german :p |
| 13:36 | <samu> | where is the dock being removed in the code? |
| 13:37 | <chillcore> | is it? Fun are words when mangled much. |
| 13:37 | <samu> | is it a station? |
| 13:38 | <frosch123> | planetmaker: no, by albert |
| 13:38 | <frosch123> | still no idea what it is, even after looking at the diff :p |
| 13:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | chillcore: well, "die katze beißt der hund" means something different than "the cat bites the dog" :p |
| 13:39 | <+glx> | it's a station yes |
| 13:39 | <samu> | docks disappear but I don't see it in this part of the code |
| 13:39 | <@planetmaker> | frosch123, I think something with the position attached to each line (which also is reported in case of errors) |
| 13:39 | <samu> | is it somewhere else? |
| 13:39 | <@planetmaker> | thus data usually not exposed from internal structures |
| 13:39 | <+glx> | it's somewhere in station_cmd.cpp I think |
| 13:39 | <samu> | ah, ok then |
| 13:40 | <@planetmaker> | but ok, thanks. I'll then try to come up with a release in the next days. |
| 13:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | chillcore: in german you can flip around subject and object of the sentence, should you want to put more emphasis on the object. in english you can't do that |
| 13:40 | <@planetmaker> | Not sure I want to spend much time on the changelog. What I pasted was mostly automatically gathered with very limited manual retouching |
| 13:41 | <@planetmaker> | However I updated man page and readme |
| 13:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | chillcore: because english got rid of the cases that designate which word is the object, and puts this semantics into the word order |
| 13:42 | <chillcore> | I see. eddi |
| 13:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (although in german it can get ambiguous, too, if both words are female) |
| 13:45 | <@planetmaker> | neuter, too |
| 13:45 | <chillcore> | I can hardly understand the peeps i my own country, I doubt I would notive the difference :P |
| 13:45 | <chillcore> | still intersting though |
| 13:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | chillcore: the difference is the article. "die katze [object] beißt der hund [subject]" vs. "die katze [subject] beißt den hund [object]" |
| 13:54 | <frosch123> | now explain "die katze beißt die giraffe" |
| 13:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i did that already |
| 13:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if both words are female [or neutral], you also have to rely on word order in german |
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| 13:56 | <frosch123> | sounds sexist |
| 13:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the reverse order is also pretty rare |
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| 13:59 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 13:59 | <@Alberth> | hi hi |
| 14:00 | <chillcore> | o/ |
| 14:05 | <Wolf01> | bah, why people don't remember they own email addresses and use MINE to do their stuff FOR MONTHS and they won't change also if you notice them? |
| 14:05 | <frosch123> | s/people/your girlfriend/ |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | though, grandpa would also work |
| 14:07 | <Wolf01> | in my case is a guy with the same name who lives in another city and we don't know each other... |
| 14:07 | <chillcore> | hmm contact your email provider? |
| 14:07 | <Wolf01> | google? |
| 14:07 | <chillcore> | first come first serve? |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | ah, you mean they registered your address somewhere |
| 14:08 | <chillcore> | depends who it is yes ... google |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | i thought they hacked your account to use it to send mails :) |
| 14:08 | <Wolf01> | the problem is they put the wrong address in outlook or such |
| 14:08 | <chillcore> | it should not be possible ... |
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| 14:09 | <Wolf01> | if you set that as "reply to" address, yes, it is |
| 14:10 | <frosch123> | well, someone registered my ottd address to some archaeology conference :) |
| 14:10 | <frosch123> | possibly a pun about the ottd code/interface :p |
| 14:10 | <Wolf01> | ahah |
| 14:10 | <Pici> | Attend as that person then. |
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| 14:11 | <Wolf01> | when somebody register your address to a service, you should be able to unsubscribe or at least dissable the account (as I did multiple times with facebook and the other "game" address) |
| 14:11 | <Wolf01> | the problem is when they use it in their cliend and use it for their job |
| 14:12 | <frosch123> | na, always ignore unknown mails, put them in a filter, don't answer |
| 14:12 | <Wolf01> | so you also get lots of reserved stuff, notify them, still get lots of reserved stuff |
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| 14:16 | <samu> | i need to know what I can do about how would the game handle destruction of a canal tile that was built on a river tile |
| 14:17 | <abc> | Am I right for asking a question to OpenTTD here? |
| 14:17 | <samu> | more specificaly, i need authorization |
| 14:18 | <frosch123> | sometimes this channel is about openttd |
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| 14:18 | <chillcore> | <frosch123> na, always ignore unknown mails, put them in a filter, don't answer <- +1 |
| 14:19 | <samu> | can i change the way demolish works for river tiles? |
| 14:19 | <samu> | oops, canal tiles |
| 14:20 | <frosch123> | though i have special folder for very authentic fake mails |
| 14:20 | <frosch123> | i like spam/scam, if it is done good :p |
| 14:21 | <chillcore> | first you need to store 'river' tiles ... then everytime you demolish a canal compare tot that list samu |
| 14:21 | <frosch123> | same as ads really, they are fine if they are good :) |
| 14:21 | <abc> | i use OpenTTD version 1.4.4 and I am not able to find the option to build more than one industry of the same kind in a city in the extended options. (sorrx if my English is bad) |
| 14:21 | <abc> | where can I find this option? |
| 14:22 | <frosch123> | there are some filter options in the settings window |
| 14:22 | <frosch123> | make sure to select "all settings" |
| 14:22 | <chillcore> | needs digging in the code and compiling |
| 14:22 | <abc> | where can I select "all settings"? |
| 14:22 | <frosch123> | dropdown at the top |
| 14:23 | <samu> | let me look at river |
| 14:25 | <abc> | if you refer to chillcore: Where do I find the code and how can I compile it? I'm an IT-noob only wanting to play a nice game :( |
| 14:25 | <@Alberth> | samu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_River_Cam_from_the_Green_Dragon_Bridge.jpg ? |
| 14:26 | <chillcore> | I was talking to samu abc. sorry for the confusion |
| 14:26 | <abc> | oh, OK |
| 14:27 | <abc> | can frosch123 answer my question? |
| 14:28 | <chillcore> | https://wiki.openttd.org/Category:Compiling_OpenTTD since you asked. ;) |
| 14:28 | <chillcore> | have fun paying ;) |
| 14:28 | <frosch123> | https://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings#Changing_Advanced_Settings <- abc |
| 14:28 | <chillcore> | playing* woops |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | chillcore: unable to read Temp_Adjust_API.diff <-- removed it from the patch set, but not from series? |
| 14:31 | <chillcore> | hmm let me check the zip ...I may have forgotten that one |
| 14:31 | <chillcore> | it should be fine without though |
| 14:33 | <abc> | frosch123, thank you for the link it was a great solution. sorry chillcore, this was to hard for me. I didn't realized the dropdown button at "Show" could be the solution. Now it works |
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| 14:35 | <chillcore> | Alberth: uploaded |
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| 14:35 | <@Alberth> | should I try that one instead? |
| 14:36 | <chillcore> | just stick the temp file it in you patches folder |
| 14:36 | <chillcore> | if there is one ... it should be the same |
| 14:37 | <chillcore> | I did not add widgets yet so |
| 14:37 | <@Alberth> | I did rm *.diff :p |
| 14:37 | <chillcore> | it is the third attachment in my last post |
| 14:37 | <chillcore> | or adjust series .. as you wwish |
| 14:38 | <chillcore> | there is no ai/scripts using smoothness? yet :P |
| 14:38 | <chillcore> | I made it to be sure as moki was using NewGRF .. |
| 14:39 | <@Alberth> | that shouldn't crash worldgen, as there are no newgrfs at that stage |
| 14:39 | <chillcore> | true |
| 14:40 | <chillcore> | unless someone has a mofified menugame? |
| 14:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | menu game cannot use NewGRFs |
| 14:40 | <@Alberth> | windowy stuff is quite free of newgrf-specifics, except for the newgrf window :) |
| 14:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the menu game is loaded before the game can find NewGRFs |
| 14:41 | <chillcore> | less worries then |
| 14:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | [the only way to fix this is to run the NewGRF search on a black background] |
| 14:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there is one exception: ActionF (town name) NewGRFs get activated on the menu, to get the entries into the dropdown selection |
| 14:42 | <chillcore> | I had to move my data folder because of that ... grrr |
| 14:42 | <frosch123> | except it is half broken for 2 years :p |
| 14:42 | <frosch123> | well, actually for 5 years |
| 14:42 | <chillcore> | a few GB takes a bit |
| 14:43 | <frosch123> | since 1.0 :) |
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| 14:43 | <chillcore> | then again ... if I am just playing i care less |
| 14:44 | <chillcore> | start game ... grab coffee ... |
| 14:44 | <chillcore> | when testeing it is another story hehe |
| 14:45 | <@Alberth> | grab tgen zip, put in patch directory, hit make, start chatting :p |
| 14:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: could you specify "it"? |
| 14:45 | <chillcore> | I hope I fixed it ... |
| 14:46 | <frosch123> | fs#5819 - townname newgrfs fail to activate if the titlegame is a post 0.6 titlegame |
| 14:46 | <frosch123> | i.e. it works in nightlies, but fails in all stable releases :p |
| 14:48 | <chillcore> | noice |
| 14:48 | <frosch123> | we should adjust the rules for the titlegame competition |
| 14:48 | <frosch123> | savegames may not be made with ottd newer than 0.4 |
| 14:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | haha :p |
| 14:48 | <frosch123> | (i believe it is 0.4, not 0.6, it must be from before newgrf were stored in the savegame)= |
| 14:49 | <chillcore> | creatief met kurk ... sounds good frosch |
| 14:50 | <samu> | can i build ship depots on canals owned by competitors? |
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| 14:50 | <samu> | let me check |
| 14:50 | <samu> | nope |
| 14:50 | <samu> | t.t |
| 14:51 | <@Alberth> | chillcore: it fails to crash with me, so that's good :p |
| 14:51 | <@Alberth> | no idea what to do with the numbers though |
| 14:51 | <chillcore> | k |
| 14:51 | <chillcore> | picj somethings as first |
| 14:51 | <chillcore> | then the next is half the aplitude |
| 14:52 | <chillcore> | so for staying flat you go |
| 14:52 | <chillcore> | 1000, 2000 |
| 14:52 | <chillcore> | try to keep your values in a range of 2 |
| 14:53 | <@Alberth> | what I mean, it's not in user terms "more height", or "less water", or so |
| 14:53 | <chillcore> | your pick ... |
| 14:53 | <@Alberth> | but maybe that's not feasible with these parameters |
| 14:53 | <chillcore> | mapsize? |
| 14:53 | <@Alberth> | hmm, let me try again |
| 14:53 | <chillcore> | I usually go for littlest water, no or little variation |
| 14:53 | <@Alberth> | I press "generate", the map is all wrong |
| 14:54 | <@Alberth> | now, which number to change? |
| 14:54 | <chillcore> | hmm ... |
| 14:54 | <chillcore> | it depends what you want ... |
| 14:54 | <@Alberth> | you know, because you understand the meaning of the numbers |
| 14:55 | <chillcore> | I do not see your screen ... hehe |
| 14:55 | <samu> | allow-drive through road stops on roads owned by competitors |
| 14:55 | <@Alberth> | but as I said, maybe it's not possible to make it more user oriented |
| 14:55 | <chillcore> | hmm how to eplain this ... |
| 14:55 | <chillcore> | set everything to 1 |
| 14:55 | <chillcore> | mapsize 2048 squared |
| 14:56 | <@Alberth> | write a wiki page is probably the solution here :) |
| 14:56 | <chillcore> | heightlevel 199 or so |
| 14:56 | <chillcore> | it is hard to explain |
| 14:56 | <@Alberth> | there you have room to explain things |
| 14:56 | <chillcore> | you have to see it |
| 14:56 | <chillcore> | true |
| 14:56 | <@Alberth> | but once the patch is done, imho |
| 14:56 | <samu> | I might need a "allow water structure stuff on canals owned by competitors" setting |
| 14:56 | <samu> | unsure yet |
| 14:56 | <chillcore> | yeah that sound good |
| 14:57 | <chillcore> | for now set scale to max |
| 14:57 | <chillcore> | rest to 1 and generate |
| 14:57 | <chillcore> | then start making your way down |
| 14:58 | <chillcore> | 1 by 1 ann see how that influenceds things |
| 14:58 | <chillcore> | maybe try to find some nice seed first |
| 14:58 | <chillcore> | with default values |
| 14:59 | <chillcore> | then keep seed ... while making our way through |
| 14:59 | <chillcore> | limit yourself to a factor of two up or down |
| 14:59 | <chillcore> | taking into account that the next value is halved |
| 15:00 | <+glx> | <frosch123> well, someone registered my ottd address to some archaeology conference :) <-- oh mine too |
| 15:00 | <samu> | how many owners can there be for a single tile? |
| 15:00 | <chillcore> | it becomes obvious real quick |
| 15:00 | <chillcore> | but you go out of bounds real quick too |
| 15:00 | <chillcore> | them flats and steep cliffs |
| 15:01 | <chillcore> | I believe safe would be 1.4 up max and 2 down |
| 15:01 | <@Alberth> | http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/watery_world.png I need a little more practice I think :) |
| 15:01 | <chillcore> | ^^^ factors, but don't pin me on that |
| 15:02 | <samu> | is it possible to have 3 owners on a single tile at all? |
| 15:02 | <@Alberth> | what does "keep" mean, isn't that "ok", or "close" or so? |
| 15:02 | <frosch123> | glx: it does not include a flight ticket though :) |
| 15:02 | <chillcore> | hehe up the scale a bit if you can |
| 15:02 | <+glx> | indeed :) |
| 15:02 | <chillcore> | that or lower first parameter followed by rest |
| 15:03 | <chillcore> | Keep closes this gui and opens worldgen |
| 15:03 | <@Alberth> | chillcore: it's ok, I don't have time for real experimentation now, will try another day |
| 15:03 | <samu> | upper lock tile: owner 1, canal under upper lock tile: owner 2, bridge over upper lock tile: owner 3, is this possible? |
| 15:03 | <chillcore> | no problem ;) |
| 15:03 | <chillcore> | thank for testing anyway, much aprecciated |
| 15:04 | <@Alberth> | yw |
| 15:04 | <samu> | and possibly a 4th owner, river tile under canal tile under upper lock tile under bridge |
| 15:04 | <chillcore> | one more bug ticked of the list yay |
| 15:05 | <samu> | tell me |
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| 15:06 | <samu> | is this an impossible request? |
| 15:06 | <chillcore> | multiple owners of the same object ... that gonna be fun |
| 15:06 | <samu> | yeah |
| 15:07 | <frosch123> | roal tiles can have up to 3 owners |
| 15:07 | <frosch123> | 1 for road, 1 for tram, 1 for additional structure (like rail crossing, bridge, ...) |
| 15:07 | <chillcore> | read: with infrastucture sharing I do not mind you running on my rails, I'd rather you not move them ... |
| 15:07 | <samu> | i guess the answer is yes |
| 15:08 | <chillcore> | yeah like that |
| 15:09 | <samu> | there's no possibility to build a bridge over the upper lock tile right now, i ask why |
| 15:10 | <samu> | was it because nobody thought of it, or is there some technical issue |
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| 15:11 | <samu> | with enough bridge height, it could even be possible to build over the lower and middle lock tiles |
| 15:12 | <samu> | so, can i do this? |
| 15:13 | <samu> | start messing with game code to make this happen? |
| 15:13 | <samu> | and pester you for help :p |
| 15:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | samu: look at how the code allows bridges over objects? |
| 15:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "objects" being the eyecandy objects that NewGRFs provide |
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| 15:21 | <NGC3982> | One of my servers are filled up with this: http://i.imgur.com/fWLWZNI.png |
| 15:21 | <NGC3982> | I cannot join the unnamed company, and the log does not fortell of any unnamed user or company being created |
| 15:21 | <NGC3982> | Did i somehow configure this myself? |
| 15:24 | * | NGC3982 should have Googled first. |
| 15:24 | <frosch123> | what's the answer? |
| 15:25 | <frosch123> | are they ais? |
| 15:26 | <NGC3982> | Yeah, i managed to enable ai_in_multiplayer without an actual AI present. |
| 15:26 | <NGC3982> | That's why i should never copy my local openttd.cfg to the server one. |
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| 15:34 | <samu> | can you guys test this patch? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pun0ehlix?/pun0ehlix |
| 15:35 | <samu> | or how I submit it? is it bugs.openttd.org? |
| 15:35 | <samu> | i don't consider it finalized though |
| 15:37 | <samu> | the pricing structure for the lock makes "better" sense, but it's still not totally perfect |
| 15:39 | <chillcore> | post it on the forums while perfecting it? |
| 15:39 | <samu> | forum? i can't |
| 15:39 | <chillcore> | not sure if FS is supposed to be used for developing patches ... |
| 15:39 | <chillcore> | why not samu? |
| 15:39 | <chillcore> | you are still locked out of your account? |
| 15:39 | <samu> | i need my account to be unbanned |
| 15:39 | <samu> | yes unlocked |
| 15:39 | <chillcore> | I see ... I know what happened not going to explain here |
| 15:40 | <chillcore> | contact orudge |
| 15:40 | <@Alberth> | I am sure we don't want non-finished patches at FS |
| 15:41 | <samu> | orudge: hi |
| 15:41 | <samu> | i doubt he will unlock it |
| 15:41 | <chillcore> | yes he will but you need to contact him privatly |
| 15:41 | <chillcore> | I can send him a reminder np ... but first contact him yourself |
| 15:41 | <chillcore> | it is your account not mine |
| 15:44 | <samu> | query? |
| 15:44 | <samu> | here on irc |
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| 15:44 | <chillcore> | tt-forums support iss not here no samu |
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| 15:46 | <samu> | this chat is in the forum |
| 15:46 | <samu> | http://www.tt-forums.net/chatroom.php |
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| 15:47 | <chillcore> | ye but you do not ask for a account restore ina chat do you now? |
| 15:47 | <chillcore> | email him? |
| 15:47 | <frosch123> | chillcore: he closed the tab |
| 15:48 | <andythenorth> | urgh, broken offsets |
| 15:48 | * | andythenorth will defer that until another day |
| 15:48 | <chillcore> | ok ... new account then? |
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| 15:49 | <samu> | #tycoon ? |
| 15:49 | <@Alberth> | email? |
| 15:49 | <chillcore> | pigeon |
| 15:49 | <chillcore> | :P |
| 15:49 | <samu> | who's that bukkit guy? |
| 15:52 | <samu> | i give up |
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| 16:39 | <l4urenz> | Hi |
| 16:40 | <frosch123> | hai |
| 16:40 | <l4urenz> | haven't been on irc for years |
| 16:40 | <l4urenz> | but saw that openttd had its own chat xD |
| 16:41 | <frosch123> | well, there are like 10 openttd related channels |
| 16:41 | <l4urenz> | the website only mentioned this one :) |
| 16:42 | <frosch123> | let's call it the newbie channel then :p |
| 16:42 | <frosch123> | or is it the gate to trap you in the ottd hell? |
| 16:43 | <frosch123> | where you have to build tracks all day? |
| 16:44 | <l4urenz> | sure |
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| 16:45 | <l4urenz> | thats more like a bonus i guess :) |
| 16:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | say that again when you're still here in 10 years :p |
| 16:45 | <l4urenz> | haha |
| 16:45 | <frosch123> | l4urenz: that's the trick :) until you read the fineprint about backseat gamers |
| 16:46 | <l4urenz> | used to be on quakenet wayback |
| 16:46 | <l4urenz> | but thats pretty much dead |
| 16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i suppose the kiddies are not introduced to irc anymore |
| 16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | too much new social media |
| 16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or online games have their own chats |
| 16:49 | <l4urenz> | exactly. its more like fb messenger |
| 16:55 | <chillcore> | goodnight all |
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| 17:22 | <samu> | :( i'm going back to pricing canal tiles |
| 17:23 | <samu> | think |
| 17:26 | <ST2> | dnt think, play BusyBee :P |
| 17:26 | <samu> | void MakeWaterKeepingClass(TileIndex tile, Owner o) |
| 17:28 | <samu> | my brain is stuck atm |
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| 17:30 | <samu> | * Only river water should be restored on appropriate slopes. Other water would be invalid on slopes */ |
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| 17:36 | <samu> | ah, the game restores rivers via this void MakeWaterKeepingClass(TileIndex tile, Owner o)? |
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| 17:39 | <samu> | this comment: If we clear the canal, we have to remove it from the infrastructure count as well. |
| 17:39 | <samu> | but there is no way to clear canals, only demolish canal |
| 17:41 | <samu> | MakeWaterKeepingClass - must understand what is this for |
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| 17:51 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 17:59 | <samu> | question: Money base_cost = IsCanal(tile) ? _price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL] : _price[PR_CLEAR_WATER]; |
| 17:59 | <samu> | what does ? do in thhis |
| 17:59 | <samu> | it picks one of the prices? |
| 18:01 | <samu> | what is being decided there? |
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| 18:04 | <@peter1138> | IsCanal(tile) |
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| 18:07 | -!- | supermop [~supermop@d110-33-170-165.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd |
| 18:07 | <supermop> | hi |
| 18:07 | <samu> | hi |
| 18:08 | <samu> | question: Money base_cost = IsCanal(tile) ? _price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL] : _price[PR_CLEAR_WATER]; |
| 18:08 | <samu> | do you know what that ? do? |
| 18:08 | <samu> | ? symbol |
| 18:08 | <samu> | and the : |
| 18:09 | <supermop> | me? |
| 18:10 | <supermop> | no idea |
| 18:12 | <samu> | is it deciding one of the prices for the base cost? |
| 18:13 | <samu> | ok, it is |
| 18:13 | <samu> | just tested in-game |
| 18:22 | <+glx> | it's the ?: operator |
| 18:23 | <+glx> | it's a simple if then else with assignation |
| 18:26 | <@planetmaker> | the ternary operator is nice. And a bitch. At the same time :) |
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| 19:39 | <samu> | if (IsTileType(tile, MP_WATER) && (!IsTileOwner(tile, OWNER_WATER) || wc == WATER_CLASS_SEA)) continue;. |
| 19:39 | <samu> | question |
| 19:40 | <samu> | what is || |
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| 19:47 | * | Pici blinks |
| 19:50 | <supermop> | should i make the bellows joints between tram cars short little vehicles or just draw as part of the main cars? I've done one tram one way, and another the other |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Feb 18 00:00:18 2015 |
