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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-19

---Logopened Thu Feb 19 00:00:20 2015
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02:46<supermop>yo andy
02:47<andythenorth>moin
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02:52<Pikka>moin
02:52<Pikka>and such
02:53<V453000>hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
02:54<andythenorth>lo Pikka bob
02:54*andythenorth had a question
02:54<andythenorth>what was it?
02:55<Pikka>is that the question?
02:55<andythenorth>might have been
02:55<andythenorth>what ho Pikka? Any new houses or jobs?
02:55<Pikka>not really
02:56<Pikka>should probably be looking for a job. uni goes back next week. :)
02:56<andythenorth>“Work from home, make $4000 a week"
02:56<andythenorth>sure there’s one of those jobs around
02:57<andythenorth>me and Dan are making SARS, was that the thing I wanted to tell you?
03:11<Pikka>perhaps
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03:13<__ln___>http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/02/19/lenovo-caught-installing-adware-new-computers/
03:23<dihedral>hi
03:24-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-99-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
03:24<__ln___>hello
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03:58<andythenorth>bbl
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05:04*andythenorth experiments with downgrading Iron Horse to python 3.2
05:05-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
05:12<andythenorth>hmm
05:12<andythenorth>tedious :)
05:12<Pikka>huzzah!
05:14<andythenorth>python3.2 ate all my vehicles
05:14<andythenorth>Pikka: so a cyclone warning eh?
05:14<Pikka>mmhm
05:14<Pikka>although it will just be a lot of rain by the time it gets here
05:32<andythenorth>there is a lot of rain on my python :(
05:45-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd
05:46<smoke_fumus>andythenorth: give it a year and it will eat half of your braincells and your programmer decency/dignity
05:46<smoke_fumus>whichever comes first
05:55-!-Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
05:55*andythenorth has no programming decency or dignity
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06:05<andythenorth>bastards
06:05<andythenorth>string equivalence checking changed between python 3.2 and 3.4
06:06<andythenorth>3.4 you can do “if repo_vars.get('roster', '*') is ‘*’:”
06:06<andythenorth>3.2 you have to do “if repo_vars.get('roster', '*') == ‘*’:”
06:06<andythenorth>downgrading is horrible
06:07<andythenorth>I’ve been reading some Guido stuff, some of the stuff in 3.4 was added because 3.2 made porting from python 2 too hard
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>so, then don't downgrade.
06:11<andythenorth>no choice
06:11<andythenorth>jenkins uses 3.2
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>beat the jenkins maintainer into updating
06:12<andythenorth>he’s busy
06:13*andythenorth crosses fingers about this push
06:13<andythenorth>wfm
06:16<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, installing packages not found in the repositories is rather a no-no for servers
06:18<andythenorth>there are ‘standard’ deployment techniques to do it in an isolated way for python projects
06:18<andythenorth>but yeah
06:18<andythenorth>also the build worked
06:18<andythenorth>so there we go
06:18*andythenorth bbl
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07:02*andythenorth has an ever-growing collection of virtualenvs for newgrfs :|
07:11*andythenorth has increasingly actual knowledge about python :|
07:12<V453000>asdf
07:12*V453000 lost his brain to a game Factorio
07:13<andythenorth>uh oh
07:13<V453000>it is like minecraft openttd but a lot better than minecraft
07:14<andythenorth>I’ve seen it
07:14<andythenorth>haven’t played it
07:14*andythenorth misses 2048
07:14*Eddi|zuHause does not miss 2048 at all
07:15*andythenorth goes back to newgrf
07:15*V453000 too
07:15<andythenorth>eh, should I convert Squid next? o_O
07:23<V453000>"convert" = ?
07:23<V453000>juzz code generation stuf?
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07:32-!-samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-155-33.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
07:32<samu>hi
07:34-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DBBB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
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07:40<andythenorth>juzz code gener8n stuf
07:41<V453000>:)
07:50-!-Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:51<Celestar>how can you 'miss' 2048?
07:51<andythenorth>I was mistaken
07:52<andythenorth>:P
07:52<andythenorth>hmm
07:52<andythenorth>the 5 year old is playing a 4096x4096 map
07:52<andythenorth>it chugs a bit
07:52<andythenorth>he is complaining that his buses don’t make money, and took a *really* long time to build
07:53<@planetmaker>hihi :) so small a human, so big a map, so huge the lag ;)
07:53<andythenorth>because they’re travelling about 1k tiles
07:53<andythenorth>so they only make money every 2nd year :P
07:53<andythenorth>half the ‘problems’ of openttd are problems of excessive map sizes, or some other dimension that has grown too large
07:54<andythenorth>'moar' not always better
07:54<Celestar>:P
07:55<andythenorth>“I need complex ways to sort vehicle groups” -> too many trains
07:56<andythenorth>“Game runs slow” -> too many vehicles / map too big
07:56<supermop>new tram running tonight
07:56<supermop>6018
07:56<andythenorth>Daylength, prime example of some stupidity with wanting to change dimensions
07:56<Celestar>explain?
07:57<andythenorth>all these dumb daylength patches
07:57<andythenorth>which are never ever ever going to work
07:58<andythenorth>which solves the ‘problem’ that newgrfs have too many engines
07:59<andythenorth>so people don’t get to see enough of each engine before there’s a new one
07:59<andythenorth>stupidest thing ever in openttd
08:02<supermop>night
08:04<Celestar>you mean engines coming at too high a frequency?
08:05<@planetmaker>basically they do, yes. And often there's only one "good" engine at a given time. But time flies too fast to even order an autoreplace
08:06<V453000>idk about that, most train sets have one best vehicle for like 40 years
08:06<V453000>but yeah, a parameter for introduction date scaling would make a lot more sense than time scaling
08:07<V453000>s/parameter/setting
08:07<andythenorth>so then they want daylength, but then industry production breaks, and costs need rescaled, and speed is wrong and blearch
08:08<andythenorth>the whole game gets broken to ‘solve’ a non-problem
08:08<andythenorth>http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html
08:08<andythenorth>it could be solved by capping the number of newgrf engines at 48 :P
08:09<andythenorth>hmm, why does the original game have *so* many crap planes, all variations on ‘Darwin x00'?
08:09<V453000>I dont think such a limit would do much
08:09<andythenorth>did they have a deal with Airbus?
08:09<V453000>xd
08:10<andythenorth>Airbus are about 3 miles from where Microprose office was
08:10-!-supermop [~supermop@d110-33-170-165.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>aren't the darwins boeings?
08:12<andythenorth>dunno
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>darwin 400 being boeing 747
08:13<andythenorth>another theory bites the dust :P
08:17<V453000>first bridge coded =D
08:17<V453000>lets see the shit
08:26*andythenorth converted Squid to python3
08:26<andythenorth>see if bundles eats it
08:28<andythenorth>yay
08:29-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
08:30<andythenorth>now I just need to placate pyflakes
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>"bundles ate my newgrf" is that a new song in the openmsx soundtrack?
08:31<andythenorth>should be
08:34<@planetmaker>I hope not
08:37<V453000>it eats everything
08:41<andythenorth>Squid build is 8s
08:41<andythenorth>not bad eh
08:42<V453000>holy shitballs
08:42<V453000>I think some sprite IDs are messed up in the ogfx spritesheet
08:42<V453000> /investigation
08:45<V453000>aaand nope
08:45<V453000>xD
08:45<V453000>now to find hte issue
08:46<@planetmaker>V453000, maybe the template used in ogfx is not linear in referencing them?
08:47<V453000>idk but the sprite sheet is just fine :)
08:47<V453000>my stuff is just wrong somewhere
08:47<V453000>somehow
08:48<Eddi|zuHause># irgendwie, irgendwo, irgendwann
08:48<@planetmaker>omg, Eddi|zuHause !
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>:p
08:49<V453000>hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmfffffffffffffffffffffff
08:49<@planetmaker>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oas5nAlfrwg <-- for everyone to share in the horror ;)
08:49<V453000>for some reason all of my sprites are moved by 1 in the sheet XD just cant find why so far
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>there was a cover by jan delay or so...
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIgQovuYiR8
08:50<@planetmaker>I don't know the cover probably
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>when was that? the late 90s?
08:53<@planetmaker>nena? 1984
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>no, the cover
08:53<@planetmaker>no clue
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>"In 1999 Jan Delay with Denyo and Beginner covered this song for the compilation album Das gibt's nur einmal of the TV project Pop 2000 by ARD and Viva."
08:55<@planetmaker>I heard the original in radio when it was new ;)
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>i did not :=)
08:58-!-Pereba [~UserNick@179.186.31.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
08:58<@planetmaker>damn, now I need to listen through my NdW collection :P
08:59<V453000>ok my models were just swapped rotations ._.
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't listen to a lot of radio in the '80s.
09:02<@planetmaker>nor did I... but well, it was a hit back then. no way around it
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>whenever we made vacation close to the border, my father listened to Bayern 1, which features more traditional bavarian music than the generic pop/schlager music of Bayern 3
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>and this song basically escaped my radar until the jan delay version made it popular again
09:07<andythenorth>bbl
09:07-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:07<V453000>offsets are just pure evil.
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>today's earworm presented by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcV7VN3l3bY
09:17<V453000>wtf.
09:19<V453000>why even have offsets, we could just have a dedicated slave whom you could just throw pictures at, and they would align it for you
09:19<V453000>I democratically nominate andythenorth
09:19<V453000>oh he gone
09:19<V453000>:(
09:20*Eddi|zuHause just imagines a 'may the volunteer step forward'-*everyone except one person steps back* scene
09:21<V453000>xd
09:21<@planetmaker>:D
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: but why are offsets a problem when you render? you can easily calculate the anchor point from the original coordinates
09:34<V453000>I am not so sure about that
09:34<V453000>the bridges have so many different wtfs
09:34<V453000>but yeah somehow you could I guess
09:34-!-DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
09:35<DanMacK>Hey all
09:35<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
09:35<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 28 minutes and 12 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bbl
09:35<DanMacK>Of course... lol
09:39<@planetmaker>o/
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09:47<Celestar>heya pm :)
09:47<V453000>ok why the fuck are bridge overlays different by 192 horizontal offset, just between the rotations . _ .
09:47<@planetmaker>hey Celestar :) started to lurk around here again, eh?
09:48<V453000>rendered to be at the same spot, just different rotation
09:48<Celestar>actively, yeah :P
09:48<Celestar>how ya been?
09:51-!-Aholm [~oftc-webi@x1-6-c4-3d-c7-39-52-dd.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
09:52<Aholm>i cant find my freind in lan networking? any idea?
09:52<samu>firewall?
09:52<__ln___>an imaginary friend?
09:53<Aholm>he got mac - i got windows? is that a problem?
09:53<__ln___>it's not a problem.
09:53<samu>i have no idea
09:53<ST2>try add server manually: LAN IP:port
09:54<ST2>maybe not being advertised (but I have no clue either xD)
09:54<samu>today I am writing down my price scheme
09:55<samu>cus i keep forgetting
09:55<samu>lol
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the anchor point must rotate with the object
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the anchor point is (almost always) the back (invisible) corner of the bounding box
09:56-!-shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
09:56<V453000>hmm
09:57-!-Aholm [~oftc-webi@x1-6-c4-3d-c7-39-52-dd.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
10:00<samu>does the game allow building a lock where the upper tile is a canal owned by a competitor?
10:00<samu>bah i will check it out
10:00<samu>brb
10:00<@planetmaker>Celestar, quite fine here. How's been your time?
10:01<Celestar>well the past week I was sick in bed :P
10:01<Celestar>but that was probably the result of a 40 degree drop in temperature plus 11 hours jetlag :/
10:12-!-roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd
10:13<samu>i found a bug
10:13<samu>upper tile and lower tile owners with land area information is misleading
10:16<samu>if the canals are owned by someone else, but the lock is mine, when i retrieve land area information on upper and lower tiles brings up that it is a lock, but it is owned by someone else
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>samu: if the town built the road, person A built the road stop, and person B built the tram rails, how does that look in tile info?
10:29-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
10:30<@planetmaker>Celestar, where've you been? wizard of oz?
10:30<samu>gonna check, brb
10:31<samu>what's a tram? a newgrf? what is it
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>tram is rails on the road.
10:33<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/BridgePylonWtf.png
10:33<V453000>2 questions
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can only build trams when you have a newgrf providing them
10:33<V453000>1. wtf is up with the pylons in the / direction
10:33<samu>Generic Tram Set?
10:33<V453000>2. in the \ direction, why doesnt top pylon show over the bridge head :(
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>/ direction -> wrong offsets
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>\ direction -> wrong bounding box?
10:34-!-shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
10:35<@planetmaker>what Eddi says, most likely
10:35<V453000> / -> sure but all of them have the same offset, it is just one sprite of double pillar, not one
10:35<@planetmaker>or also wrong bounding box in the / case
10:36<@planetmaker>not sure actually that you can force successfully (much) different size than default pylons, V453000. If it's double pylon it's twice the width already
10:36<@planetmaker>pylons are a big bitch and hack iirc :P
10:37<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/BridgePylonWtf_BB.png
10:37<V453000>so like
10:37<V453000>move the image, change offset?
10:37<samu>land area information: bus station
10:37<V453000>or is that even relevant?
10:37<samu>owner: brimfield transport
10:37<samu>road owner: brimfield
10:37<samu>tramway owner: brimfield transport
10:38<samu>wow
10:38<Celestar>planetmaker: the last 3 months I've been on a journey
10:38<V453000>hm
10:38<@planetmaker>V453000, it shows that the pylons are not covered by their bounding box really
10:38<V453000>with zbase exactly the same bullshit happens
10:38<V453000>in both places
10:38<@planetmaker>zbase no-one went to the trouble to properly check bounding boxes for lot of things :S
10:38<V453000>in zbase it is even worse in fact
10:39<V453000>well then
10:39<V453000>what can I possibly do to improve it?
10:39<samu>there can be many owners, woo
10:39<@planetmaker>Celestar, sounds fun? Business or your own free time?
10:39<Celestar>own time
10:39<@planetmaker>sweet :)
10:39<Celestar>about 60000km in total
10:41<Celestar>yeah, should have done this sooner. and more often :P
10:45-!-Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd
10:48<V453000>any ideas :(
10:48<V453000>I dont understand why does it work in original grafix XD
10:48-!-Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:51<V453000>guess I could try to replicate the x1 sprite as much as I can
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11:01<@Alberth>moin
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11:08<roidal>o/
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11:09-!-Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:11<@planetmaker>\o
11:17<samu>wow
11:17<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!735&authkey=!AOyJ2Xv4bquYb9M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
11:17<samu>now i see how complex it is
11:17<samu>i had this on my brain
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11:25<samu>i can see this clearer
11:25<samu>better do this for canal too
11:26<roidal>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating – is this table complete?
11:28<roidal>because i have stations where everytime a train is loading, but stationrating never goes over 75%
11:33<roidal>oh...hm...
11:37<samu>gosh, these schemes are complicated after all
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11:38<samu>build a canal on a canal with no owner that was built on a river -> costs 0, maintenance costs 1 and canal becomes yours
11:40<samu>or maybe i just forbid building in there
11:40<samu>what is preferible
11:41<samu>already built error
11:41<samu>or make the canal become yours?
11:42<samu>if I think of a canal piece as a road piece
11:42<samu>already built error goes in tandem with the rest of the game
11:45<samu>better simplify this
11:46<samu>build canal on a canal with no owner that was built on a river -> costs 0, maintenance 0 (because it's river)
11:46<samu>damn i was falling on my own mistake
12:00<@Terkhen>hello
12:01<@planetmaker>hi hi
12:05<andythenorth>lo
12:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: so eh, you can defer touching python 3.4 for period [t]
12:06<andythenorth>where t is up to you
12:06<andythenorth>unless I run into a python 3.2 bug :P
12:07<@Alberth>specifically one fixed in 3.4 :p
12:08<andythenorth>yeah :P
12:08<andythenorth>btw, one of you might want to call pyflakes on nml src?
12:08<andythenorth>:P
12:08<@Alberth>would scare all of us away :p
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12:11<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkvewouat <-- not that bad
12:26<andythenorth>unused imports are meh
12:26<andythenorth>only one syntax error and one undefined var
12:26<andythenorth>the imports in nml/expression__init__.py
12:27<andythenorth>are they just to register them in the module?
12:27<andythenorth>module / package /s
12:27<andythenorth>it slightly irks me that that there’s no way to tell pyflakes to shut up sometimes
12:27<andythenorth>I don’t fancy calling .main() or .register() on every module in a package, even if explicit is better :P
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>comment.py? is that from me?
12:28<samu>i'm getting into trouble
12:29<samu>construction methodology differs per object
12:30<samu>it's like I'm playing the same game but done by 2 different ppl
12:30<@planetmaker>probably, Eddi|zuHause. It's not in the manifest
12:30<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I think the answer to your question is 'yes'
12:30<samu>what were the plans you guys had for water construction?
12:31<@planetmaker>I didn't have any plan there, samu ;)
12:31<@planetmaker>other than build and enjoy
12:31<samu>i try to explain
12:31<samu>building a lock methodology is very different than building a ship depot or a dock
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but in my version of nml, comment.py:38 contains "self.text"
12:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, probably ancient
12:32<samu>for example, building a ship depot only needs water
12:33<samu>building a lock, creates water instead of giving an error
12:33<samu>building ship depot on land doesn't create water
12:33<samu>these two different methodologies
12:33<samu>conflict
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml/repository/revisions/b8517179317d/diff/nml/ast/comment.py
12:33<@planetmaker>not really. a ship lock is the sloped water you can build, samu
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>"vor fast 2 Jahren hinzugefügt"
12:34<@planetmaker>samu: thus it's the same as placing a piece of canal - it creates water
12:34<samu>it creates water for the slope
12:34<@planetmaker>exactly. My point
12:34<samu>but, what about the other 2 tiles?
12:34<@planetmaker>it creates it htere, too, if needed
12:35<samu>that's where I see a divergence
12:36<samu>i'd prefer to "unify" the methodology, dunno the technical term
12:36<@planetmaker>I don't see there any need for any unification, samu. It all works along the same lines
12:37<@planetmaker>horizontal water ways and sloped water ways (=locks) create water. Building depots needs it
12:37<samu>it will, but creates quite some mess for counting maintenance
12:37<samu>a code mess
12:38<@planetmaker>worse than a user-experienced mess
12:38<@planetmaker>err.. better
12:39<samu>i'm getting myself into a big mess
12:39<samu>only because I want to structurize the pricing
12:40<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml/repository/diff/nml/ast/comment.py?utf8=%E2%9C%93&rev=205b713768f3&rev_to=7702311bc344
12:41<@planetmaker>anyway... dinner | me
12:41<samu>:)
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, the other change was python3-related, i think
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27155 trunk/src/lang/traditional_chinese.txt (2015-02-19 17:45:41 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
12:46<samu>where are docks?
12:46<samu>some other file?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>"Gegenseite: Tag found. Building 0.4.0" <-- that sounds useless
12:49*andythenorth wonders why Squid compiles so obscenely fast
12:49<roidal>hm
12:49<andythenorth>both chameleon and nml steps
12:49<roidal>openttd+python channel? :D
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: probably missing some essential part :p
12:50<andythenorth>whereas Road Hog is slower, and Iron Horse is…like a crippled mule
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12:54<andythenorth>25 ships compiles in about 10s with no multiprocessing trickery
12:55<andythenorth>116 trains takes about 90s
12:55<andythenorth>with trickery
12:55<andythenorth>hmm, but articulated consists
12:55<@Alberth>track types
12:55<andythenorth>graphics support
12:55<andythenorth>depot sprites
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>how do articulated consists matter?
12:55<@Alberth>more 'trains' :)
12:56<andythenorth>because 116 trains are at minimum 348 item blocks and switch chains
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so there is your factor 9
12:56<andythenorth>and every train with a tender etc adds at least 3 more
12:56<andythenorth>no hiding from volume of data :|
12:56<@Alberth>make all values 1 :)
12:57*andythenorth wonders if all articulated parts can be the same part
12:57<andythenorth>think I tried that, it has…conceptual and practical problems
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i reuse tenders where possible
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12:58<Eddi|zuHause>"possible" meaning "they have virtually same properties"
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>[and looks]
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12:58<@Alberth>o/
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13:07<frosch123>hola
13:11<samu>hmm a dock counts to station maintenance, but not to canal
13:11<samu>hi
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>why would it?
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>either you built it on a canal, then the canal counts for maintenance already
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>or you built it on sea, then why would you pay maintenance for the sea?
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13:19<@Alberth>hi hi
13:19<chillcore>hello all
13:19<chillcore>and hello Alberth
13:20<@Alberth>:o I am not part of all? :)
13:20<andythenorth>for autocomplete purposes, no
13:20<chillcore>Maybe I am overlooking something and if not just throwing it outhere ...
13:20<andythenorth>throw harder
13:21<chillcore>I do not see an obvious way to reset all saved gui coordinates to 0 ... ingame I mean. I noticed when moving the running copy from one screen to another
13:22<chillcore>sure you are part of all Alberth, your case just threw an exception ;)
13:23<@Alberth>throw new MePartOfAllException(); :p
13:23<@Alberth>sorry, too much java :p
13:23<chillcore>hihi
13:25<chillcore>I think I gt rid of all my magic nrs and the fugly hack too
13:25<@Alberth>nice
13:26<chillcore>if statements are stll there though ...
13:27<chillcore>one thing I am not sure about ... when clicking back in the scenario editor... it takes you back to main screen
13:28<chillcore>but you do not always come from there
13:28<@Alberth>hmm, titlegame by 22th, would that be feasible?
13:29<andythenorth>why doesn’t java have ‘old SomeClass();’
13:29<andythenorth>for reuse :P
13:31<@Alberth>use the Keeper pattern :p
13:32<@Alberth>could be fun, get a random instance of a class :p
13:32<chillcore>I have some example code in my patchpack andy ... feel free to browse XD
13:38<samu>noticed another inconsistency
13:39<samu>i can build locks on tiles owned by competitors
13:39<samu>but not dock or ship depot
13:40<andythenorth>locks are non-blocking
13:40<andythenorth>usually
13:40<andythenorth>not sure about depot
13:41<samu>one other
13:41<samu>building a lock on a canal tile with no owner (due to bankrupt)
13:42<samu>will not force that canal to become yours
13:42<samu>but in case of dock and ship depot, those canals do become yours
13:43<samu>i need to base my prices on consistency
13:43<samu>else I dunno how to price things
13:46<@Alberth>throw a dice :p
13:48<samu>okay
13:49<samu>i would prefer canals with no owner to still have no owner, instead of forcing them to become yours
13:49<samu>that would mean, have to edit dock and ship depot code
13:49<samu>:(
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13:50<samu>but what about you
13:50<samu>main devs
13:51<@Alberth>we do what is conceptually the right solution, usually
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13:51<@Alberth>time doesn't mean a lot in an unpaid project
13:53<andythenorth>or we argue endlessly about an issue ;)
13:53<andythenorth>with no progress
13:54<andythenorth>fortunately RoadTypes would add nothing to gameplay anyway
13:57<chillcore>they should ... on dirt road you should lose 7.35% of your patatos every 100 tiles. :P
13:57<chillcore>on sundays that is ...
13:58<andythenorth>depends on what tyres you have
13:58<andythenorth>and if it’s ‘raining’
13:58*andythenorth invents ‘weather’ in openttd
13:58<chillcore>hmm good point
13:58<andythenorth>you can’t see it, but it has hidden effects on gameplay
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13:58<andythenorth>newgrfs can access it
13:58<andythenorth>hmm
13:58<andythenorth>in autumn, trains should accelerate and brake more slowly
13:58<chillcore>*me assigns night and day to someone
13:58<andythenorth>due to leaves
14:04<samu>must look at what happens with bus stops
14:10<samu>okay bus stops on roads with no owner won't force the road to become yours
14:10<samu>2 vs 2
14:11<samu>nice tie
14:12<samu>now checking when a road belongs to local authority
14:14<samu>road still belongs to local authority
14:14<samu>after bankrupt
14:15<samu>maintenance counting, let me check
14:18<samu>woah, whoever worked on roads must have had a hell of a job
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14:21<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:26<chillcore>hehe samu ...
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14:28<chillcore>hint samu ... it is local authority not local ownership ;)
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14:41<samu>this is going to be handy
14:41<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
14:48<samu>5000 is such a huge number
14:49<samu>haven't figured out a base price for a water piece
14:49<samu>canal piece
14:50<samu>but as you see, in my vision, i intend it to be taken into account
14:50<samu>for different parts of infra stuff
14:50<samu>objects
14:50<samu>whatever it's called
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14:54<samu>i could perhaps simplify this again
14:54<samu>if i am to follow the same logic that roads do
14:57<samu>and i am back to the same dilema
14:58<samu>okay I need to ask this
14:58<samu>what plans do you have for rivers?
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14:58<samu>can i have a secondary price for building canals on river tiles?
14:59<samu>but which aren't based on the price of canal? is it possible to create one more base price?
14:59<samu>otherwise, it will cost 0
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause>sure, you can add base prices
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>you can look at the revision history of the file to see how it's done
15:01<samu>what happens when i build a canal on a river tile? what would happen if it costs 0?
15:01<samu>does it say already built?
15:03<samu>can I, for instance, force the game not to build based on the cost being 0?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, you need to return an error if you want it not built. 0 cost is just costing nothing
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>you can also have negative costs, then you get money back
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>(e.g. removing rails does this)
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15:05<samu>hmm, can i do math operations on the base price?
15:06<samu>like, base_canal/2
15:06<samu>if the base is 5000, then building on river costs 2500?
15:07<samu>that would avoid creating a whole new base price
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>sure
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>but it's less clean
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15:09<samu>okay, thanks, i'll look at the possibilities
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15:59<chillcore>good night all.
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16:02<@Terkhen>good night
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16:17<samu>what is DC_AUTO?
16:17<samu>CommandCost ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
16:17<samu>sometimes there's flags | DC_AUTO
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16:22<+glx>there should be a comment near DC_AUTO declaration
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16:24<samu> Update infrastructure counts after the unconditional clear earlier.
16:25<samu>what do they mean unconditional clear
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>shoot first, ask qestions later.
16:26<samu>so basically, i want the game not to clear water or river or canal or sea
16:26<samu>just don't clear
16:27<samu>confused
16:27<samu>why is there a clear command here
16:28<samu>it's water!
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>clear turns water into dirt
16:33<samu>hmm why is it there then
16:34<samu>CommandCost CmdBuildShipDepot(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
16:34<samu>i'm mid way into this block
16:35<samu>CommandCost cost = CommandCost(EXPENSES_CONSTRUCTION, _price[PR_BUILD_DEPOT_SHIP]);
16:35<samu>after this
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know?
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17:47<supermop>yo
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18:02<Wolf01>'night
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18:18<samu>what happened to irc
18:18<samu>a
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18:21<samu>f
18:26<samu>is anyone here?
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18:54<samu>i have a question
18:54<samu>how do i build a ship depot that maintains the owner of canals?
18:56<samu>i want to do it much like a bus stop
18:56<samu>a drive-through
18:56<samu>but for ships
18:57<samu>and without turning it into a station
19:13<samu>:)
19:14<ST2>o/
19:15<samu>oh
19:15<samu>it's alive
19:15<ST2>was only to test
19:15<ST2>:P
19:16<ST2>but I believe most of the ppl is sleeping now ^^
19:16<samu>what do you code
19:16<samu>do you understand this game code?
19:16<ST2>a bit of all, without knowing much
19:16<samu>i need some help
19:16<ST2>as you could see, busy :)
19:16<samu>oki
19:17<ST2>but helps a bunch if you learn C++ basics
19:21<+glx><samu> how do i build a ship depot that maintains the owner of canals? <-- you can't unless there's enough free bits in the map array
19:21<samu>map array, hmm hmm what
19:21<samu>btw hi
19:24<samu>a free bit
19:24<samu>map array
19:31-!-Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
19:32<+glx>m3 and m4 seem free for MP_WATER tiles
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19:36<+glx>hmm no m4 is used
19:38<+glx>you can check trunk/docs/landscape.html and trunk/docs/landscape_grid.html
19:40<+glx>seems it should be possible to store canal owner for ship depot and docks
19:43<supermop>yo
19:45<+glx>and even for locks
19:48<samu>I will try
19:48<Pikka>yo supermop
19:49<samu>at that grid, I look at class 6, it's MP_WATER
19:56<samu>6 m3?
19:56<samu>m3, m6 and m7?
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21:08<wjdp>Hi I'm trying to work out why some engines cannot be autoreplaced with others. I've read the wiki page but can't seem to find anything.
21:08<wjdp>I cannot autoreplace a CS 4000 (D) with a Centennial (D), the 'Start replacing vehicles' button is greyed out
21:09<wjdp>The game will allow me to replace them with Turner Turbos
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>the replacements cannot be circular, so check whether somewhere you have set a replacement the other way around
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>also check different groups
21:13<wjdp>Ah, it was circular. Thanks!
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22:13<supermop>hi
22:13<supermop>sorry Pikka ran out to buy a coping saw
22:13<Pikka>as one does
22:13<Pikka>how are you coping?
22:16<supermop>i'm doing fine, the saw, not so well
22:17<supermop>lets say i have a white coffee grinder, and it was sold for a few years with a green switch, then a few years with a red switch
22:18<supermop>should the switch be CC? should green and red be specific liveries?
22:20<supermop>i find i have to render all views of a tram simultaneously now with this photometric renderer to get the tones consistent
22:21<supermop>otherwise it lightens up the \ views and darkens the / views
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22:23<lopoert>GIVE ME FREEDOM RIGHT NOW!! STOP CENSORSHIP. TOR PROJECT HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY. YOU ARE SHITHOLES. VEL.OPE IS FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.
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22:46<supermop>are sprite sheets possible for 32bpp sprites or does each one need to be on its own?
22:46<VELOPESHIT__FRESPECH_NSA>GIVE ME FREEDOM RIGHT NOW!! STOP CENSORSHIP. TOR PROJECT HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY. YOU ARE SHITHOLES. VEL.OPE IS FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.
22:46<VELOPESHIT__FRESPECH_NSA>GIVE ME FREEDOM RIGHT NOW!! STOP CENSORSHIP. TOR PROJECT HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY. YOU ARE SHITHOLES. VEL.OPE IS FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.
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22:54<VELOPESHIT__FRESPECH_NSA>GIVE ME FREEDOM RIGHT NOW!! STOP CENSORSHIP. TOR PROJECT HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY. YOU ARE SHITHOLES. VEL.OPE IS FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 20 00:00:21 2015