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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-22

---Logopened Sun Feb 22 00:00:24 2015
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00:38*chillcore sundays
00:43<ST2>well, it's a try... with a music talking about sun happiness and summer xD
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02:58<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:39<@Alberth>hi hi
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04:03<chillcore>hello Alberth
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04:04<George>Hi. Small NML question. How to display speed in proper units in additional text CB?
04:06<George>STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD :Max speed changes to {VELOCITY} when loaded
04:06<@Alberth>indeed, that would be the string
04:07<George>string(STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD, 70 km/h));
04:08<George>←[Knmlc ERROR: "xussr.nml", line 20942: Syntax error, unexpected token "km/h"
04:09<George>How should I specify the data to the {VELOCITY}?
04:11<@Alberth>tbh I have no idea how to add data to any positional string command
04:12<George>Any idea where to look at?
04:12<@Alberth>maybe someone else can help you, although it's quiet here at this time of the sunday
04:12<@Alberth>other nml vehicle sets probably, or the nml manual on settings string parameters
04:13<@Alberth>post a question to the forum is also an option
04:14<George>what subforum would fit better?
04:14<juzza1>not sure if the parameter can be anything but another string
04:14<juzza1>string(STR_SOMETHING, string(STR_ANOTHER))
04:14<@Alberth>newgrf development, in the NML thread, would be my choice
04:15<George>It definitly can be INSIGNED_WORD, just checked
04:15<@Alberth>as you're asking a technical nml question
04:16<George>I get problems with values in units only
04:16<@Alberth>hmm, is there a unit conversion function in nml?
04:16<@Alberth>maybe you need to wrap that around your value
04:16<George>I could find one
04:17<TrueBrain>arent speed units handled by the game itself? As you can switch between km/h and mph? (has no clue about NML, but this stood out to me :))
04:18<George>No, there is none to convert speed here :(
04:19<juzza1>George: right, it _should_ take a velocity parameter like that, according to
04:19<TrueBrain>exactly why I mentoin it :) Doesn't {VELOCITY} take km/h value as parameter, and output either N km/h or M mph, based on the game setting? :)
04:19<TrueBrain>(so just 70, without any addition)
04:20<TrueBrain>for the same reason you only give an integer for {CURRENCY}, and you dont add the EUR etc? :)
04:20<@Alberth>hi TB, yes, that would be a good experiment
04:21<TrueBrain>string(STR_PURCHASE_HINT_SPEED_CHANGE_ON_LOAD, 70));
04:21<TrueBrain>so that would be my guess there :)
04:21<TrueBrain>well, one ) too many, but meh :)
04:22<George>←[Knmlc ERROR: "lang\english.lng", line 992: Provided a static argument for string command 'VELOCITY' which is invalid
04:23<TrueBrain>so I am wrong; bah :D
04:23<TrueBrain>sorry :)
04:24<George>May be you can generate more ides, may be someone would work
04:25<TrueBrain>trying to find an online example of string() with a second parameter, but rather failing :(
04:27<@Alberth>it seems to need a non-static argument, can you make it a non-static one, by adding some switch-like statement?
04:27<@Alberth>(no idea what statements exist in nml, so likely, it's not "switch")
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04:48<George>No idea how
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05:34<chillcore>houston? ... we get glitches ... no idea where they are coming from.
05:40<chillcore>pic #13
05:47<chillcore>hmm ... error message opengfx(e) has corrupt sprite? will write it down correctly as soon a I see the message again.
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05:53<@Alberth>wow :)
05:54<chillcore>indeed ... thing is I can not reproduce neither ... when I try the same setting it crashes on mepgenearation
05:54<chillcore>^^^ but ccpelled correctly :P
05:55<chillcore>spelled ... doh
06:00<@Alberth>mep the map :p
06:01<@Alberth>you may want to update your baseset, sprites have been added in the past
06:12<chillcore>mepping ... already found a typo in one of my patches (although I doubt it is the cause of glitches) ... checking to see if I have the latest and greatest of OpenGFX
06:15<@planetmaker>the latest and greates is yet a nightly version only
06:16<chillcore>I am aware of that planetmaker, if you do not have it while compiling yourself the games tells you about it. ;)
06:16<chillcore>Thank you for the hint anyway, much apreciated.
06:18<@Alberth>ugh, why does squirrel interface linking fail? :(
06:18<@planetmaker>eh, while compiling the game, chillcore ?
06:19<chillcore>if you compile trunk and OpenTTD only sees the stable version on start, then it sais you may expect glitches because of not tunning the nightly OpenGFX
06:19<chillcore>s tunning/running
06:20<@planetmaker>yes. But that has nothing to do with compiling it. Just with using nightly :)
06:22<chillcore>true ... MHL used to have glitches each time OpenGFX updated because of the way sprites were inserted before, not sure how flat_blacktiles are treated now
06:23<chillcore>the glitches used to be outside the map too so this may be unrelated to what I am seeing now-ish (can not reproduce))
06:27<@Alberth> anyone an idea why this fails to link?
06:29<@Alberth> errors
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: flat blacktiles were replaced with a black recolour map
06:42<chillcore>hmm ... date in description in game options seems to match the latest nightly version
06:42<chillcore>thank you for the info eddi.
06:43<V453000>hmmmm, played on novapolis custom client yesterday and I must say they have a ton of nice client-side gui improvements
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06:46<michi_cc>Alberth: You're missing a few ScriptNews::'s
06:49<@Alberth>thanks michi_cc
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07:17<frosch123>chillcore: btw. your new window is quite colourful: green, orange, black, blue, white, light green :)
07:17<frosch123> <- we once collected some colour schemes that are being used in ottd
07:24<chillcore>thank you for the link frosch, adding it to my list. Blue however is not in it ... only dark_green, orange, grey and mauve (except for text)
07:25<chillcore>feel free to change in whatever your pref is. I added more colour because someone complained about the gui being too boring;)
07:25<frosch123>haha, well, all ottd windows are boring then :p your window is a parrot between them :)
07:26<frosch123>lots of borders and bevels which no other windows have
07:26<chillcore>thank god I did not go for rainbowcoulour text :P
07:27<chillcore>you like or I should tone down a bit?
07:27<frosch123>V does rainbow, if you haven't seen nuts yet :)
07:27<chillcore>I have not seen it yet no
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07:38<@planetmaker>ho ho.
07:38<@planetmaker>it's confusing, Alberth and chillcore have the same colour
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>not here
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>but yes. same colour is very very confusing
07:39<@Alberth>long live random colouring heuristics :p
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>like you and supercheese
07:39<Wolf01>eh, you have all the same colour here :)
07:40<chillcore>everyone that highlights me has unreadable yellow, everybody else black
07:40<@planetmaker>you share the colour with Terken, Wolf01 ;)
07:40<chillcore>o/ wolf01
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>damn coloured people! they all look alike! :p
07:40<@planetmaker>and juza actually
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08:05<@Alberth>planetmaker: this counts as a bug?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>someone's "use more variations of rock" patch was overzealous?
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08:10<@Alberth>either that, or someone didn't code all rock variations
08:10<frosch>i only checked the basesets, not ogfx+landscape :p
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08:18<jjavaholic>I'm looking for tips and ideas how to form a train network that plans around town growth
08:18<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes. Though it's a result of the change frosch introduced recently: to also use the unused rock sprites
08:19<@planetmaker>and the newgrf doesn't replace unused sprites indeed
08:19<@planetmaker>or formerly unused sprites
08:19<@Alberth>yeah, quite :)
08:19<frosch>hmm, do we use function overloading anywhere in ottd?
08:19<@Alberth>will file a bug
08:20<@Alberth>all virtual methods?
08:20<frosch>i mean functions with same name, but different amount/type of parameters
08:21<frosch>the traditional c functions do not do that, so i wonder whether it is part of our coding style to not do it :)
08:21<@Alberth>traditional c doesn't have overloading
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08:21<frosch>like ScrollWindowTo vs ScrollWindowToTile
08:22<frosch>Alberth: yes, but should i stick to that when adding a new function? :p
08:22<@Alberth>hmm, maybe in the gfx.cpp file?
08:22<@Alberth>with all the string rendering functions
08:23<@Alberth>I wouldn't mind if you add overloaded functions
08:24<@Alberth>the only problem is that finding the definition from its use is more complicated
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>all the template functions are overloaded?
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. stuff that is in .hpp files?
08:32<@Alberth>hmm, and it makes it easier to read what the code does
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08:37<frosch> <- ok, what about that case :p
08:43<@Alberth>different number of parameters is way easier to find, seems fine to me
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm probably not the right person to decide this, but i'd find it easier if all the "helper function" that just call the main function are before the main function
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a password :p
08:56<@Alberth>I thought it was 'secret' :p
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09:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27157 /trunk/src (6 files) (2015-02-22 14:01:24 UTC)
09:01<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Mark bridge middle tiles dirty when building/removing/changing bridges.
09:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27158 /trunk/src (4 files) (2015-02-22 14:10:44 UTC)
09:10<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify mapping from viewport to smallmap coordinates by duplicating less code.
09:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27159 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp (2015-02-22 14:12:34 UTC)
09:12<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify mapping from smallmap to viewport coordinates by duplicating less code.
09:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27160 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp viewport.cpp) (2015-02-22 14:14:30 UTC)
09:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Division of signed values by TILE_SIZE requires cast to stay signed.
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09:26<chillcore>hello o/
09:28<chillcore>planetmaker: I got that error message again, it reads, "/ogfx1_base contains a corrupt sprite. All corrupt sprites will be shown as a red questionmark (?)"
09:28<@planetmaker>aha. I don't get that. What OpenGFX do you use?
09:28<chillcore>now I gotta find the question mark ingame ...
09:28<frosch>doesn't the console say which sprite?
09:30<chillcore>hmm let me check the revision nr ... planetmaker .. (I believe it is latest, at least it was this morning)
09:30<@planetmaker>'latest' is no version :P
09:30<@planetmaker>ingame it tells you what it actually uses
09:30<@planetmaker>in the game options
09:31<chillcore>frosh: have not yet checked ... this is a red popup without more info (not console)
09:31<@Alberth>hmm, let's release a version 'latest' :p
09:31<maxaitor>Can I join any multiplayer server if I have 1.4.4 version?
09:31<chillcore>planetmaker ... checking in a bit ... I don't want to quit this game just yet because it is hard to reproduce
09:32<@planetmaker>no worries, no rush
09:33<chillcore>when I checked this morning the date of the readme(?) matched latest in openttcoop foldeer for opengfx
09:33<chillcore>^^^ in game options
09:33<@planetmaker>coop has three latest ;)
09:33<chillcore>I sees
09:33<@Alberth>maxaitor: <-- any server that has 1.4.4 as version
09:33<frosch>maxaitor: you can change servers with matching version, most servers currently run 1.4.4
09:34<maxaitor>I have another question
09:34<maxaitor>Today I joned one server
09:34<maxaitor>and my train wasn't moving
09:34<frosch>was the game paused?
09:34<maxaitor>It was moving but not to the stations
09:35<chillcore>hmm ... can I enable dev tools ingame? via console?
09:35<@planetmaker>chillcore, sure
09:35<@planetmaker>those are simple variables
09:35<@planetmaker>set var=value
09:35<frosch>maxaitor: most common case of that problem is "forgotten catenary"
09:35<@planetmaker>chillcore, but you cannot enable debugging output iirc
09:36<maxaitor>what is catenary?
09:36<@planetmaker>wire above tracks with high voltage & current
09:37<@Alberth>actually, the high voltage is to keep the current down :)
09:37<@planetmaker>true :)
09:37<maxaitor>This game is hard
09:37<@planetmaker>however... 16kV @ 2MWatts ---> high current, too ;)
09:37<frosch>electric trains cannot drive on non-electrified railway
09:37<maxaitor>I was using vapor train
09:39<frosch>Alberth: actually, some powerlines are operated at a lower voltage in winter, to get rid of heavy ice :)
09:40<@Alberth>ha, interesting :)
09:40<frosch>(not constantly, but a few hours when needed)
09:41<@Alberth>maxaitor: difficulty of the game may depend on the server, many owners tweak the game configuration towards a particular audience
09:42<maxaitor>I want to say that is hard to learn
09:42<@Alberth>oh, yeah, it has lots of depth
09:42<maxaitor>I'm new to the game and I'm always losing money
09:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27161 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-02-22 14:42:34 UTC)
09:42<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6156] [FS#6206]: Reimplement the viewport drawing algorithm.
09:43<@planetmaker>frosch, same power but lower voltage? Interesting :)
09:43<@Alberth>maxaitor: start with a coal connection about 20-30 tiles in temperate, or with two towns around that distance
09:43<chillcore>this is akward ... seems like the sprites in sprite aligner are clipped to a rectangle, does not matter which sprite I select ... size of viewable rectangle does not change
09:43<@Alberth>use not too long trains, and always have a train loading
09:44<maxaitor>ok thx
09:44<maxaitor>What about iron connection?
09:44<frosch>planetmaker: in austria or russia you have to take even more severe actions
09:44<@planetmaker>only when it's humid :)
09:45<frosch>like temporary switching off parts of a station, then put them on 5kV and then short-circuiting
09:45<@Alberth>maxaitor: not sure, there is a cargo payment graph in the game, that shows payment of cargoes for distance, compare a few to get an idea what pays best
09:45<maxaitor>Thank's for the help :)
09:45<@Alberth>maxaitor: secondary cargo pays more than primary cargo, so perhaps the money of iron ore is in the steel and food transport later
09:45<Flygon>Here, when the overhead froze
09:46<Flygon>We just ran electric locomotives with two pantographs up
09:46<Flygon>Granted, this is Australia and one of the few parts of mainland Australia where it snows
09:52<chillcore>planetmaker: frosh:
09:52<chillcore>pic #15
09:52<chillcore>notice how the sprites in sprite aligner are clipped ...
09:53<chillcore>going to chack that OpenGFX revision now
09:54<@planetmaker>looks ugly ;)
09:55<chillcore>hmm silly me I could check from ingame too 1014-11-09 (5426:e1262b81c821)
09:55<chillcore>hmm I think peeps will get used to it, eventually :P
09:55<@planetmaker>yes, game options tell you what *actually* is used :)
09:56<chillcore>If only it did that all the time ...
09:56<chillcore>I was under the impression I needed to go to main menu planetmaker
09:58<chillcore>date is 2014 ... haha
09:59<chillcore>close box sprite seems to be missing in my screenshot
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10:03<@planetmaker>well, that should be there in new(er) versions
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10:03<chillcore>normally it is ... just not when theses glitches happen
10:04<chillcore>the glitches are somehow tied to terrain as they change as I modify terrain
10:04<chillcore>in a predictable manner that is
10:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27162 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2015-02-22 15:05:48 UTC)
10:05<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6208]: Tile selection was drawn outside of map in some cases. (adf88)
10:07<chillcore>planetmaker: this is going to be a fun one to fix I am sure ... I generated a new game and they are gone ... again
10:07<chillcore>and my closebox is back too ...
10:08<chillcore>something is reading out of bounds?
10:10<frosch>if you were on linux, i would recommend you to run valgrind :p
10:12<chillcore>hmm another small thinghy ... in smallmap the white square that represents "part of map in viewport"? when you go over the top sides of the map part of it dissapears, unless you are at the very top; there it shows completely
10:14<chillcore>frosch: what is this valgrind you speak of ... still having a headache from those pointy pointers :P (which I still did not get to fix)
10:14<frosch>i replaced the code for that this afternoon :) so, it is kind of important whether you updated today :p
10:14<chillcore>I have not yet updated ... doing so now then ;)
10:14<frosch>chillcore: valgrind is open-soure tool for unix-like operating systems, that one a google price in 2002
10:15<frosch>it is the main reason why i consider windows dead for developement of native applciations
10:15<frosch>(actually, the price is from 2006)
10:16<frosch>it's a master-piece of compiler and debugging technology
10:19<chillcore>interesting ...
10:20<frosch>anyway, anyone interesed in fixing one of the 100 open bugs? otherwise we can release beta2 tomorrow or so
10:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27163 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2015-02-22 15:26:27 UTC)
10:26<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6204]: Toolbars were not invalidated when changing max-vehicles settings. (adf88)
10:26<frosch>yay for adf making it a two-digit bug count :)
10:28<chillcore>^^^ nice
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>frosch: 20% of users cause 80% of the bugs? :p
10:39<chillcore>frosch: smallmap maparea selector (or whatever it is called) is not broken anymore.
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12:01<chillcore>hi samu
12:03<chillcore>What happens when the last element of an enum has a comma when it should not? a) nothing or b) a nameless element is created with value "previous value +1" ??
12:04<chillcore>going through my patches again ... fixing stuffs ...
12:04<@Alberth>why shouldn't it?
12:05<chillcore>I see enums without it?
12:05<@Alberth>all openttd enums have a comma behind the last value, except invalid values perhaps
12:05<chillcore>could be me having deleted a comma too ... hmm
12:05<@Alberth>hg blame :p
12:06<@Alberth>or hg diff, for that matter
12:06<@planetmaker>hg annotate doesn't sound so unfriendly :P
12:06<@Alberth>hmm, svn has svn praise iirc
12:07<chillcore>have a look at GenWorldProgress in genorld.h ... no comma after GWP_CLASS_COUNT
12:08<@Alberth>yeah, counts and invalids are a bit of an exception, as they are expected to be the last value
12:08<@Alberth>also, it could be just an inconsistency, we have plenty of those :p
12:09<michi_cc>Trailing commas simplify changes and don't hurt, except if you are required to write code strictly compliant to C89/C++98.
12:09<frosch>chillcore: the comma is purely optional from a syntax point of view
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12:09<chillcore>ok. so what do we want?
12:09<frosch>however, to make patches not modify unrelated lines, it is common to layout the source, so you do not have to change a line just to add a comma
12:10<frosch>thus most enums have a comma for the last item, except when the last item must be the last item
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12:13<chillcore>so for "presets" and "perlin params" no comma, for "various min max values" comma
12:15<chillcore>hmm ... just curious now ... is there somewhere that we need to read past the end of an enum?
12:16<chillcore>I can not htink of a sitution where you would want to do that ...
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12:17<chillcore>fetching a single one yes, but reading a block past the end ... seems like a bad idea to code something like that on purpose
12:18<chillcore>anyhoo thanks for the info once again ;)
12:19<@Alberth>adding a comma after the last element of an enum means you can add another value after it later, without having to change the line above it
12:19<@Alberth>same also applies for arrays
12:19<chillcore>that is not a prob ... you are adding one anyway and the compiler will give you the finger :P
12:20<@Alberth>yes, but the patch grows by 2 lines
12:20<@Alberth>and the change isn't really interesting
12:20<chillcore>like that ...
12:20<frosch>and the vcs annotation is bumped
12:21<@planetmaker>meh... my zbase compilation is borked
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12:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27164 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2015-02-22 17:25:29 UTC)
12:25<@DorpsGek>-Add: [NoGo] Game scripts can point to a location, station, industry, or town when publishing news.
12:29<@planetmaker>hm, sounds tasty :)
12:30<@Alberth>not being able to click at BB news was annoying :p
12:30<frosch>nothing prevented you from clicking the news :p
12:31<@Alberth>I tried that, but it failed every single time :(
12:31<@planetmaker>clicking? I doubt
12:31<@Alberth>no way to tell, really :p
12:31<@planetmaker>the desired effect might have been lacking ;)
12:32<@planetmaker>frosch where did your numbers go? ;)
12:33<samu>im about to give up on this
12:34<samu>suddenly visual studio doesn't build
12:34<frosch>planetmaker: in a kernel panic when starting a vm
12:34<@planetmaker>oh, yeah. Numbers are easily scared ;)
12:35<@Alberth>they just hide in the other numbers from the panic :)
12:35<chillcore>clean trunk still compiles samu?
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12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27165 trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt (2015-02-22 17:45:17 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 3 changes by Supercheese
12:47<samu>i'm trying to do it from zero
12:47<samu>except reinstalling visual studio
12:48<samu>SAFESEH and DirectMusic, ok, better
12:48<samu>these can be fixed
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12:57<samu>4>icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj) : warning LNK4099: PDB 'vc100.pdb' was not found with 'icuuc.lib(ubidi.obj)' or at 'C:\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\Win32\Release\vc100.pdb'; linking object as if no debug info
12:57<samu>what is this
12:57<samu>tons of these
13:00<samu>whatever, it started
13:00<samu>OpenTTD r27164M - is this it?
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13:02<samu>Cannot find or open the PDB file.
13:02<samu>many warnings like this
13:02<samu>but it runs
13:03<samu>am i to be worried?
13:03<samu>'openttd.exe' (Win32): Loaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll'. Cannot find or open the PDB file.
13:04<samu>The program '[6760] openttd.exe' has exited with code 0 (0x0).
13:05<samu>'openttd.exe' (Win32): Unloaded 'C:\Windows\SysWOW64\WSHTCPIP.DLL'
13:05<samu>many unloaded stuff
13:07<samu>well, it works, though with too many warnings now
13:13<andythenorth>where is cat?
13:14<chillcore>settings.ini ;)
13:15<frosch>juicy cat - original filtered cat juice
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13:38<samu>Mantle support for OpenTTD?
13:39<samu>what's a draw call?
13:43<@Alberth>you're speaking in riddles for me
13:46<samu>sprite sheets
13:47<samu>when the game says marktiledirty
13:47<samu>forget it
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13:53<samu>gonna try something stupid: 15 companies, 5000 ships each company, 4096x4096 map
13:56<+glx>you need a computer from the future for that
13:57<@planetmaker>patience might suffice
13:57<samu>its gonna be boring to click 5000 times
13:57<@planetmaker>tick length: 15 minutes
13:59<Taede>code a simple ai which will just add ships to existing routes?
14:00<frosch>actually, the more ships you have, the more efficient gets the yapf cache
14:00<Taede>all you need to do then is set up 15 companies and some routes
14:00<samu>it still generating map
14:00<frosch>so you have to make sure, that all ships have different orders :)
14:01<samu>forgot map height 255
14:01<samu>let me do this again
14:04<samu>generating 13312 towns... zzzzz
14:14<samu>not enough money for 5000 ships
14:15<Taede>so cheat
14:15<samu>basecosts mod says free costs, it's not really free, made 2600 ships
14:16<samu>starting 2600 ships in 3...
14:16<samu>not bad, expected worse
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14:17<samu>fast forward doesn't really fasts anything
14:18<frosch>just extrapolate the cpu clock rated from the past 10 years, to see when you can get a 50 ghz cpu
14:20<samu>saving game, zzzz
14:21<samu>oh, it's stalling a bit now
14:21<samu>every 2 seconds nothing moves, not even mouse cursor
14:23<samu>not doing hiccups now
14:23<samu>very laggy mouse controls though
14:24<samu>wait i could show this
14:28<oskari89>Is there a tree growth height limit somewhere on the settings?
14:28<frosch>no, but some guy on the forums (i believe hackalittlebit) wrote a tree-height-limit patch
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14:30<chillcore>loclahost did ... maybe hackalittlebit too I don't know about that ;)
14:30<frosch>ah, yes, the second post lniks to some other patch
14:31<chillcore>loclahost his version did not work with all climates though, I changed that in my bugpack ... ;)
14:33<frosch>hmm, i wondered, is your usage of "his" a swedish grammatic thing?
14:33<chillcore>seems like hackalittle bit his version offers more variation ... the other is a clear cut kinda
14:33<frosch>i am asking because the same dative-construct exists in german, but is considered bad german :)
14:34<chillcore>swedish hehe ... no I am a dutch speaking belgian
14:35<samu>about 5200 ships in the game now
14:35<frosch>huh, why did i think you were swedish?
14:37<samu>lagarino again
14:37<samu>hiccups every 2 seconds
14:37<chillcore>hmm, I dunno ...
14:38<frosch>hmm, maybe because you told about working at volvo?
14:39<chillcore>frosh: maybe because a little while ago I said I worked for Volvo years ago (external company)?
14:39<@planetmaker>a tree height limit would be sad... no snowy trees then :)
14:39<@planetmaker>but as it would be a setting... I don't care really
14:40<chillcore>they have a factory over'ere ;)
14:40<oskari89>planetmaker: Trees growing over 10 kilometer height would be rather strange-looking
14:40<frosch>less strange than when 10km tall :p
14:42<@planetmaker>@calc 255*50
14:42<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 12750
14:42<@planetmaker>hm :)
14:42<oskari89>In what height it usually stops, by the way
14:43<chillcore>planetmaker you can set snowline higher then treelineheight
14:44<frosch>at least we do not need a newgrf spec for variable treeline height :)
14:45<chillcore>not sure about hackalittlebit his pacth but the other one did not check for industries above treeline height, sawmill for example should not be generated there IMHOand such
14:46<samu>can't pathfinders be multithreaded?
14:47<samu>parallel finding work on pieces
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14:48<oskari89>planetmaker: Seems that most threes do not grow over 3500 metres, but all ends over 5200 metres
14:48<@planetmaker>oskari89, yup
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14:49<@planetmaker>but then... what's scale in OpenTTD? It gives a value. But is it... sensible? ;)
14:49<samu>okay it's unplayable
14:49<samu>all pathfinders are bad
14:50<samu>there's something slowing, and i don't think it's pathfinding
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14:51<samu>but the game trying to follow 2600~ ships on the same screen
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14:51<samu>when i move the screen away from those 2600 ships, mouse cursor moves much better, less sluggish
14:53<samu>yep, that was it
14:53<samu>game is now faster
14:53<samu>and i still have 2600 ships, i'm just not looking at all of them in the same screen
14:54<+glx>it's the map size and the amount of ships
14:54<samu>let me try something even dumber
14:54<+glx>and pathfinding for ships
14:55<+glx>which can't be better as there are no tracks
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14:55<samu>what is the maximum number of viewports i can open?
14:55<samu>each will look at 2600 ships
14:56<+glx>there's a setting for that I think
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14:57<samu>what's the hotkey for opening an extra viewport? does it exist?
14:58*chillcore has DejuVu ... puff of smoke rising out of CPU
14:58<chillcore>samu check tooltips? that or hotkeys config ...
14:59<samu>i can sense it becoming slower and slower the more viewports I open
15:00<samu>bah, i bankrupted
15:00<samu>much fater
15:02<samu>is this game gpu accelerated at all for graphics?
15:02<samu>2d accelerator?
15:03<+glx>it uses what OS does
15:03<+glx>and graphics are not the problem
15:04<samu>it was just now
15:05<samu>had about 60 viewports, focusing on 2600 ships
15:05<chillcore>it was the mapsize and nr of ships
15:05<chillcore>+ the crazy amount of viewports
15:05<samu>looking at ships was really slow, than not looking at them
15:07<chillcore>yeah each viewport is a representation of part the map in its own... each one having to follow a vehicle
15:07<chillcore>what did you expect to happen?
15:09<samu>multithreaded viewport
15:09<samu>just throwing random ideas as to where the game could make use of more cores
15:12<@Alberth>it already does, for as far as it is feasible
15:14<chillcore>hmm ... entering seeds manually now crashes ... great :P
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15:23<frosch>yay, finally discovered why the viewport scrolling jumps all over the place when ottd is lagging
15:24<@planetmaker>Rubidium, wth is that kind of savegame you suggested for the titlegame contest?
15:25<frosch>is it the nightly one, or is it the ottd 0.2 one?
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15:26<@planetmaker>it's a crashy one most of all :)
15:27<frosch>yay, all video drivers are affected, now i can do experimental coding again :)
15:28<frosch>code something, commit it, and hope the compile farm compiles it :p
15:30<frosch>loads for me
15:31<frosch>did you rename it to .sav ?
15:32<frosch>and yes, it's the nightly tiltegmae
15:33<frosch>binary equal
15:33<samu>those tittlegames look odd
15:33<samu>too confusing
15:33<samu>but yeah, i guess that's the point
15:33<samu>have to cram many stuff into them
15:35<frosch>well, there is a troll submission every year :)
15:35<frosch>last year there was an entry with a prominent train crash after 2 minutes :)
15:36<frosch>it was carefully timed to not happen immediately
15:36<chillcore>hehe ...
15:36<@planetmaker>frosch, yes, I renamed every game to 2015_author.sav
15:36<frosch>but well, as long as no save with incorrect signal usages wins, i am fine with every game :)
15:37<frosch>planetmaker: well, it loads for me, and since it's the nightly, it is also very valid :)
15:37<frosch>maybe your patch has issues with ancient saves without grf information?
15:37<frosch>try emptying your openttd.cfg or something
15:38<frosch>yup, it's one of those
15:38<frosch>it loads all you active grfs
15:38<frosch>in a save from the dark ages :)
15:38<frosch>so, just clear your newgrf list
15:39<frosch>the advantage is, that townname grfs work with it :p
15:41<samu>lol, just opened TTDLX title game
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15:41<samu>looks poor
15:42<@planetmaker>frosch, it won't work with a ranemd openttd.cfg for me either it seems...
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15:42<@planetmaker>anyhow, a titlegame which doesn't work an arbitrary openttd.cfg is not exactly nice, no?
15:44<frosch>what? it works in the nightly?
15:44<@planetmaker>my patch is based on yesterday's head
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15:45<frosch>it's literally the nightly savegame, when loaded as savegame (not as titlegame) it uses the newgrf from main menu
15:46<@planetmaker>but I load it as titlegame
15:46<samu>main menu is a newgrf?
15:46<@planetmaker>(otherwise I couldn't create the main menu screenshots)
15:46<frosch>yeah, i see, no idea then :p
15:47<samu>Chris Sawyer hacked for his title.dat
15:47<@planetmaker>but it loads when I compile unpatched
15:48<samu>1953 with aircraft from year 2020
15:48<samu>i am disappointed
15:51<@planetmaker>hm, I don't understand the crashy crash then
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15:59<@Rubidium>frosch / planetmaker: I seem to remember people complaining not being able to vote for the trunk one, so I gave them the possibility.
15:59<@planetmaker>Rubidium, yeah, funnily my openttd crashes when I force it as titlegame. but only with my titlegame patch. However updated to current savegame version I got the screenies
16:00<@planetmaker>uploading all savegames and screenshots now
16:00<@planetmaker>and yes, they're German locale :P
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16:14<samu>someone wrote a book about openttd?
16:15<samu>is this even allowed?
16:15<samu>ps: i can't german
16:17<@Rubidium>samu: why wouldn't it be allowed to write a book?
16:18<@planetmaker>samu, it is of course allowed. And we know. I even proof-read it to some degree
16:18<samu>okay, just wondering
16:18<__ln___>books are allowed in germany, yes
16:18<frosch>not all :)
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16:19<samu>there's money involved...
16:19<samu>oh well
16:19<frosch>there is no issue if money would be involved
16:19<frosch>but in this case, there is effectively no money involved
16:19<__ln___>yes, true. but openttd is not on the banned book topics list afaik.
16:20<frosch>just some poor soul, spending some weeks on writing something, and then noticing that noone buys it
16:20<@Rubidium>is it mentioned on the wikipedia page?
16:20<@Rubidium>after all... books are "good" notability
16:21<__ln___>samu: also money is allowed in germany
16:22<frosch> <- fix viewport scrolling
16:22<frosch>works for sdl
16:22<frosch>should work the same for windows, according to msdn docs
16:22<frosch>need to look up osx and allegro
16:23<frosch>problem with the scrolling was, that the mouse-warp is appended at the end of the event queue, so if ottd lags it gets multiple mouse events before the warp takes effect, which then scrolls way too fast
16:23<frosch>or far
16:28<@Rubidium>line 139
16:28<@Rubidium> may me -> maybe
16:29<@planetmaker>may be
16:29<@planetmaker>not maybe
16:29<@Rubidium>hmm.. good point, in any case the me is wrong ;)
16:29<frosch>hmm, osx docs say CGWarpMouseCursorPosition does not generate an event, google says it sometimes does :p
16:30<frosch>planetmaker: can you test that patch on osx? if it is wrong the right-click scrolling should be completely broken :p
16:31<@Rubidium>it doesn't look obviously wrong, but that's about all I can say about it for now :(
16:32<frosch>hmm, allegro docs are inconclusive, but i guess i can test it at least on linux
16:33<frosch>nope, allegro is different
16:34<@planetmaker>let's see
16:36<frosch>planetmaker: if it fails, scrolling stops if the os mouse pointer leaves the window/reaches the screen border
16:37<frosch>(i.e. os cursor and ottd cursor get out of sync)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause><__ln___> books are allowed in germany, yes <-- sometimes we burn them :p
16:37<@planetmaker>ok. Just started laptop. It got *incredibly* slow
16:38<frosch>absolutely or relatively to what you are used to? :p
16:38<@planetmaker><frosch> <- fix viewport scrolling
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17:00<@planetmaker>frosch: hm, weired. I have two cursors now. Which can separate the faster I move
17:01<@planetmaker>and when I scroll map, the OpenTTD cursor is fixed, the system cursor keeps moving
17:02<chillcore>goodnight all ;)
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17:02<frosch>planetmaker: ok, so same as allegro :)
17:02<@planetmaker>and the system cursor stops at screen and I can't continue to scrol
17:03<@planetmaker>thus need to go back to ottd window and start scrolling anew
17:03<frosch> <- new version
17:03<frosch>sdl and windows with 'queued_warp = true', allegro and cocoa with 'queued_warp = false'
17:19<@planetmaker>frosch: yes, now the scrolling works as (or similar as) before, thus better and as it should :)
17:22<frosch>he, looks like the actual lag is caused by an ai with a sporatic call to ScriptTileList::AddRectangle with a huge rectangle
17:24<frosch>@calc 512*512
17:24<@DorpsGek>frosch: 262144
17:24<frosch>yup, it adds the whole map to the list :p
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17:53<samu>i guess you guys are busy today with title game
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18:01<frosch>planetmaker: the titlegame page still says "1.4" in some places :)
18:03<@planetmaker>oh. :)
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18:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27166 trunk/src/script/api/script_list.cpp (2015-02-22 23:04:02 UTC)
18:04<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Optimise ScriptList by making use of iterators instead of looking up map-items multiple times per API call.
18:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27167 /trunk/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-22 23:06:45 UTC)
18:06<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [SDL, Windows] Right-mouse-button scrolling scrolled/jumped way to far, when OpenTTD lagged during mouse event processing.
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19:02<samu>didn't notice I had closed IE
19:02<samu>so i'm here
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19:05<Eddi|zuHause>"is was"?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause># immer wenn mei frau sagt 'is was?'
19:05<Eddi|zuHause># dann tu ich das, dann ess ich was
19:08<samu>my perspective is from 1280x720
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19:15<AdziHades_>Hello guys? Is anyone here?
19:16<samu>i am semi-afk
19:17<AdziHades_>Can you help me with a server?
19:17<AdziHades_>My friend can't join but it says it's online on the server list
19:17<AdziHades_>But offline in the client
19:19<ST2>appears online for me :)
19:20<AdziHades_>But my friend can't join it
19:20<ST2>it's passworded
19:20<AdziHades_>He knows the password...
19:20<ST2>tell him to restart OpenTTD
19:21<AdziHades_>Have done. Will return results when I get them
19:21<ST2>if he can't join, probably using a different version
19:21<ST2>server is 1.4.4
19:21<AdziHades_>Yeah - Checked that. He's using 1.4.4
19:22<ST2>he tried to add it manually:
19:22<AdziHades_>Yep :D
19:22<AdziHades_>Disabled every firewall known to mn
19:22<ST2>what he sees?
19:22<AdziHades_>Says it's offline
19:22<AdziHades_>But it says it's online on the server list
19:22<ST2>a red, yellow or green dot on it?
19:23<ST2>well, had he tried the Refresh server button?
19:24<samu>isn't rubidium title game exactly the same as 1.5.0-beta1?
19:24<AdziHades_>He's restarted client, no luck
19:25<AdziHades_>I'll try unpasswording it
19:25<AdziHades_>See if one of you can join
19:25<AdziHades_>No dot but name is orange for him
19:26<AdziHades_>And join using the IP
19:26<AdziHades_>If possible
19:26<samu>i dont have 1.4.4 :(
19:26<samu>can't test atm
19:26<AdziHades_>Ahh no worries. Hopefully ST2 does :D
19:28<samu>is it just me or nikitozz train engine are going backwards?
19:30<+glx>maybe you ctrl-clicked on them in depot
19:30<samu>I didn't, i just loaded save game
19:30<+glx>still possible :)
19:30<samu>the engine front is facing the wagons
19:31<ST2>that's called a test to check if players are sobber. you passed :P
19:33<samu>how do i vote without being in the forum?
19:33<samu>any email?
19:33<AdziHades_>On the server page it says (ipv?) after the IP
19:33<AdziHades_>I know it SHOULD
19:34<AdziHades_>But it says IPV?
19:35<AdziHades_>Could it be confused whether to use IPV6 or IPV4?
19:36<ST2>Server address(es): <<-- that's IPv4 for sure, as here:
19:37<AdziHades_>Yeah but on my friends server page is says
19:38<AdziHades_> << exactly that
19:38<samu>So here's my quick voting
19:38<ST2>are they on IPv4 or 6? (no idea if that interfeers)
19:39<AdziHades_>I've not idea how to check :L
19:39<ST2>my IP is 4 and I could join, so I guess it's their side issue
19:40<+glx>I don't think there are IPv6 only clients
19:40<ST2>no idea too ^^
19:40<+glx>IPv6 could be a problem if the server was IPv6 only
19:40<+glx>but the client doesn't care
19:41<+glx>it can play on both if the network connection supports it
19:41<ST2>but it's the only thing I can remember, since I could join the server without problems. very small map xD
19:42<samu>rubidium: old save
19:42<samu>VinnieNL: too many rail tracks
19:42<+glx>your vote is useless here :)
19:44<samu>romazoon: that zigzag road omg, super fast aircraft, train crushes truck soon after, omg
19:44<samu>do not like
19:45<AdziHades_>I just made it a 64x64 so it was quicker to load for testing :D
19:46<samu>Fleashosio: I don't know what to say, looks like every tile was filled with something, a bit overburden
19:46<samu>i notice helicopters flying too fast
19:47<samu>yea, I suppose I like Fealshosio though, a bit too much for my liking though
19:49<AdziHades_>Fixed it
19:50<samu>levelcrossing: I'm liking it
19:50<samu>better than Fleashosio
19:54<samu>Rayfie: simple, albeit too much simple
19:54<samu>i'll consider it, since it's gonna stay for 1 year as main menu
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19:59<samu>BlackHeart: it's a bit like Fleashosio, lighter but hmm...
20:02<samu>sc79: features a train crash
20:04<samu>that road zigzag... hmm
20:04<samu>meh i guess i dont like
20:06<samu>emperorjake: that choice of colors for those vehicles combines bad with landscape
20:08<samu>Nikit0dZZZa: features that weird train engine front facing wagons, goes in reverse, some ugly train track, do not like
20:10<samu>telanus: a bit too many crossings
20:11<samu>my vote is useless here
20:11<samu>my 3 points would be for levelcrossing
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20:14<samu>2 points for BlackHeart
20:16<samu>a bit undecided for 1 point
20:16<samu>Rayfie I guess
20:17<samu>any thoughts
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21:29<supermop>rainy day
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>except it's night
21:57<Flygon>supermop: Rainy?
21:58<Flygon>The power's been out for over 90 minutes.
21:58<Eddi|zuHause>your power goes out when it rains?
22:00<Flygon>Eddi: It goes out when it's the strongest thunderstorm we've had in over 18 months, yes
22:00<Flygon>A huge chunk of Victoria's been knocked out
22:01<Flygon>And my generator can't be used atm due to lacking the right DC>AC lead
22:01<supermop>powers fine here in fitzroy
22:01<Flygon>Granted, my generator is from 1999, going to be scrapped Wedensday, and is a Falcon :U
22:01<Flygon>supermop: Want a 1999 Ford Falcon?
22:01<supermop>rendering old HiFis
22:01<supermop>heh nope
22:01<Flygon>You seem like the kind of guy that is willing to have it go in a demolition derby
22:02<Flygon>Rather than a recycling ya- aw
22:02<supermop>ill take a 94 ford taurus
22:02<Flygon>But it's only $200!
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>that's much younger than my car...
22:02<supermop>in metallic green or teal
22:02<supermop>sedan or wagon
22:02<Flygon>We get $100 if it's scrapped
22:02<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i image whatever you drive lasts longer than an australian or american ford
22:03<Flygon>Though, since I know you'll ask the obvious
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's a VW Golf
22:03<Flygon>It's not roadworthy
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>ca. 1990
22:03<supermop>mkii or iii?
22:03<Flygon>Half the reason it's being cycled through
22:03<Flygon>Uuuhm. I forgot.
22:03<supermop>beautiful car
22:03<Flygon>This's what happens when we have two convos at once :B
22:03<supermop>i like mkiii and iv as well
22:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'd much rather have my renault 19 back
22:04<supermop>i want one of those vw polos with all the body panels different colors
22:05<supermop>although i have not owned a car since 2008
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>a clown car :p
22:05<Flygon>Oh wew, powers back
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>i even forgot they ever existed
22:05<supermop>haha i imagine not many are left now
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22:05<supermop>they were rare in 1997 when i lived in uk
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>i think the last time i saw one of those was around 2001
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>what were they called again?
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22:08<Flygon>Switched to DSL
22:10<supermop>1000eur seems good
22:11<supermop>too bad the tailgate is covered in bumper stickers
22:11<Eddi|zuHause>plus shipping to australia, plus adapting to australian road standards?
22:11<supermop>wait till i go home and ship to the us
22:12<supermop>i think 90s polos are not legal in the us
22:12<Eddi|zuHause>that won't be much cheaper :p
22:12<supermop>or at least were never certified, so i'd need to buy three so DOT can test one and crash one
22:13<supermop>"kleinwagen" is such a great name for the "fahrzeugtyp"
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>that seems excessive :p
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>well, it certainly is small :p
22:14<supermop>i miss cars, but i certainly do not miss all of the costs etc that come with them
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23:00<supermop>yo Pikka
23:00<Pikka>ahoy hoy
23:24<supermop>a single car tram wont need | or _ doors open sprites, right?
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23:33<Supercheese>unless diagonal roads are implemented, I would think not
23:37<Pikka>well it needs them in the sprite set
23:37<Pikka>and the _ will show in the info window and such
23:38<Pikka>whether you just recycle the default sprites for those directions is up to you
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23:44<Supercheese>Ah yes, info window, forgot about that one
23:45<supermop>hmm need to increase render layout again to fit in loading stages
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 23 00:00:26 2015