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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-24

---Logopened Tue Feb 24 00:00:27 2015
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04:01<andythenorth>o/
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05:40<chillcore>hello all
05:41<chillcore>when creating bundles, do the windoze bundles have the same content as the linux bundles?
05:42<chillcore>moki made a binary for me but it is missing files while it has too many.
05:44<chillcore>so I intend to fix it for him this time and ask for him to use make bundle next time ...
05:46<juzza1>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Sorting_vehicles_in_the_purchase_list should be at http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Block_syntax since it's a self-contained block. y/n?
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06:08<@planetmaker>juzza1, yes, that's right, I think
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06:12<supermop>yo
06:15<chillcore>oy
06:16<@planetmaker>chillcore, in principle the bundles should contain the same. Of course different binaries.
06:20<chillcore>Thank you for the info planetmaker. I'll rezip then while removing excess folders and files based on what I see in my self made bundle.
06:24<chillcore>Might it be a good idea to add COPYING to the bin folder, regardless of creating a bundles or not? Just to avoid the prob of that missing in the future? It happens quite often it is not there because of not knowing ...
06:24<chillcore>Just thinking out loud ...
06:25<@planetmaker>chillcore, no, putting that in the bin folder is against the definition of the paths
06:26<@planetmaker>chillcore, each platform has a bundle target. When that is used, there is no such problem as missing files. Problems only arise when people hand-create the "bundles". And forget language files, script-API files, base set files, documentations
06:27<chillcore>yeah exactly. Also it would not stop people from adding too much.
06:28<@planetmaker>chillcore, also you can check which files per platform: our CF uses the same bundle targets as anyone can use. So if it's in those bundles, then it should be in the custom-built one as well
06:29<@planetmaker>also, I say 'should'. Bugs do happen. But it's quite some time ago something was changed there
06:29<chillcore>Like you say the prob araises when creating binaries manually. Maybe the wiki could be a bit more explicit about that being a bad idea.
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06:45<chillcore>hmm it crashes unser wine ... I'll guess I'll just ask him to redo it using make bundle.
06:46<chillcore>+ have to*
06:47<__ln___>unser wine...
06:50<chillcore>thanks __ln__ I did not even see that ... man I need my new glasses ... if only they did not give me such a headache due to my depth perception changing.
06:53<@planetmaker>chillcore, better test in a real windows :) virtualbox VMs are free to get: http://modern.ie
07:13<chillcore>thank you for the link planetmaker ... just a bit confused ... "These VMs will epxire ..." are there non expiring VMs too?
07:20<@planetmaker>chillcore, I would not expect. After all they live from selling non-expiring licenses :)
07:20<@planetmaker>but you can extent it several times, I think each time for 3 months up to 1 year in total or so
07:21<@planetmaker>look for windows and rearm :)
07:22<@planetmaker>chillcore, however, if you do have a valid license, you can probably change the license key in the VM. Or at least create a VM from your install DVD.
07:22<@planetmaker>but that's not as easy anymore as just downloading it :)
07:23<chillcore>would it not be easier if I just used my official win8 cd <- typed before you answered
07:25<chillcore>I have a licence for xp too but it is tied to the machine (as is the second win8 licence I have)
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>the expiring VM is not an issue, you can just restore the blank slate from the initial download
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>you loose everything you ever did in the VM, though
07:28<chillcore>so create VM and install standalone win8 in that from DVD ... hmm ... I hope I will not screw up my linux install
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>also, keys are not "tied to a machine"
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>there are OEM keys that can only be sold with a machine, but once you have that key, you can do whatever you want with it
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>(though "whatever you want" means: you have to remove the installation from the machine before using the key on another machine. legally speaking)
07:31<chillcore>this laptop has a sticker for win7 ... only valid on this laptop. at least that is my understanding of it. when I asked for support a while back they said I had to contact Toshiba ...
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause>i once had an install CD that refused to install on a "wrong" system
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm sure that can be overridden somewhere, but i didn't bother)
07:33<chillcore>prob is that manufactors of OEMs version include their drivers, also you get win for free so to speak
07:34<chillcore>my DVD I can install on multiple PCs, under the condition only 1 pc is used ata a time
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07:34<chillcore>but my XP sticker will not work on another machine for as far as I am aware
07:35<chillcore>lucky me has XP DVD without serial
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>i somehow doubt that.
07:36<chillcore>hmm maybe things have changed ...
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07:37<chillcore>to be clear ... legl XP DVD normaly used by shops and such, still need to register within 30 days ;)
07:37-!-shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
07:38<chillcore>I cold give that a go to see if it allows me to use that sticker key
07:41<chillcore>perhaps better if I finish my patch first. hehe
07:50<chillcore>BTW ... if anyone wants a copy of that XP DVD ... I am allowed to share it but you will not get a key ;)
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07:59<chillcore>hmm this I don't like ... Some Windows features that transmit data may be turned on in the VMs. These features are described in the Windows Privacy Statement for the particular version of Windows and Internet Explorer included in the VM.
07:59<chillcore>^^^ from that link you provided planetmaker
07:59<chillcore>I'll look for another VM I guess
08:00<@planetmaker>read the privacy statement :)
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08:03<chillcore>I would if I could find them :P
08:04<chillcore>I'd really have a more permanent solution too ... maybe I'm just being thick
08:06<chillcore>I'll pop in my win8 HDD for a sec to test ... then I can do this properly later.
08:06<chillcore>bbl
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08:34<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: actually, MS do tie licenes to hardware
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08:53<V453000>only if you buy such license
08:54<V453000>there are other licenses which dont care which motherboard they are on
09:01<OsteHovel>OEM licences are in text binded to manufactorer, but the retail and VLK versions are not
09:02<OsteHovel>Btw. windows xp install cd can be downloaded free and no login needed from microsofts own page
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09:17<samu>hi
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09:46<samu>who's owner deity?
09:47<samu>where can i see a list of owners
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09:48<samu>companypool?
09:48<@planetmaker>the game itself is the deity
09:49<@planetmaker>owner deity can do stuff which somewhat is against the player rules. Like creating money from thin air. Or defusing it into thin air
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09:52<samu>company_type.h
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09:53<samu> OWNER_DEITY = 0x12, ///< The object is owned by a superuser / goal script
09:53<samu>ah
09:54<samu>there's a total of 19 owners
09:56<samu>i only have 4 bits
09:56<samu>but i don't suppose I need to store all owners
09:56<samu>i need to store all 15 companies and the NO_OWER
09:57<samu>16
09:59<samu>can OWNER_TOWN, OWNER_WATER or OWNER_DEITY have canals at any chance?
10:01<samu>I am worried about OWNER_TOWN mostly
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10:02<samu>binary 1111 means it's OWNER_TOWN
10:02<samu>but in this case, i'd want 1111 to mean that it's OWNER_NONE instead
10:03<samu>and only if the tile is a canal
10:05<samu>i must be absolutely sure that towns can never own canal tiles
10:05<samu>how can i be sure?
10:10<samu>maybe i can use m1 bit 4 if i'm careful enough
10:22<samu>question
10:22<samu>landscape_grid.html
10:23<samu>at industry class, m1 bit 5
10:23<samu>that bit was set to 1, but when i placed a oil rig, it became 0
10:23<samu>how's it not being used?
10:24<samu>why did it become 0? what is it doing
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10:28<samu>if it's not being used by industry, then who changed it
10:31<Taede>maybe it gets set to 0 *because* industry doesnt use it?
10:31<@planetmaker>:)
10:31<Taede>eg, any unused bits get zeroed upon change of tile-type
10:31<Taede>that would be my guess at least
10:31<@planetmaker>iirc things are zeroed, yes
10:32<Xaroth|Work>o/ Taede
10:32<Taede>ello
10:33<heffer>planetmaker: any chance we see a fixed nml release tarball sometime soon? maybe without the crazy version foo in the filename? :3
10:34<samu>aww, too bad, I was hoping to use that bit as an indicator if that water tile was owned by a company or not
10:35<samu>a flag
10:35<samu>or something
10:37<samu>where in the code can i see it being set to 0, :o
10:40<samu>it was of tile type water
10:40<samu>then changes to tile type industry, during construction
10:40<samu>and in the end changes to tile type station, for oil rig station
10:40<samu>all 3 can be built on canals
10:41<samu>canals can have 16 owners
10:41<samu>i assume it's only 16
10:42<samu>station and water already share that bit, indicating if it's part of no owner group or part of company/town group
10:42<samu>industry however, sets it to 0 :(
10:42<samu>i dont want it to change
10:42<samu>how do I find this
10:45<samu>i want it to maintain whatever value it was there
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10:47<chillcore>hello
10:47<@Alberth>moin
10:47-!-longtomjr [~oftc-webi@196-210-62-230.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd
10:48<longtomjr>Hi guys
10:50<@Alberth>o/
10:50<samu>CommandCost CmdBuildIndustry(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
10:50<samu>is this it?
10:50-!-zwamkat [~zwamkat@vuursmurf.smurfer.net] has joined #openttd
10:50<longtomjr>havent played in a while, Go with 1
10:50<longtomjr>.1.5* or 1.44
10:50<longtomjr>>
10:50<longtomjr>?
10:50<samu>IndustryType it = GB(p1, 0, 8);
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10:54<V453000>longtomjr: why would you get an older version?
10:56<longtomjr>just stable vs beta
10:56<V453000>"beta"
10:56<V453000>it is fine and has a lot of new features
11:01<samu>please explain me what this do
11:01<samu>SB(_m[tile].m1, 0, 4, 0);
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11:01<samu>is it what I think it is?
11:01<@Alberth>my mind reader is broken currently, sorry
11:02<samu>set bit tile in this case is industry
11:02<samu>m1
11:02<samu>now 0, 4, 0 i am not sure
11:02<samu>static inline void ResetIndustryConstructionStage(TileIndex tile)
11:02<@Alberth>please read the documentation of the SB function
11:04<samu>i have a feeling that 4, should be a 3
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11:08<samu>@param n The size/window for the new bits
11:08-!-roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd
11:08<samu>@param d The actually new bits to save in the defined position.
11:08<samu>@param s The start position for the new bits
11:09<samu>static inline T SB(T &x, const uint8 s, const uint8 n, const U d)
11:10<samu>ok, i guess this is it
11:10<samu>gonna put a 3
11:10<samu>and test
11:11<samu>◦m1 bits 3..2: construction counter, for buildings under construction incremented on every periodic tile processing
11:11<samu>◦m1 bits 1..0: stage of construction (3 = completed), incremented when the construction counter wraps around
11:12<samu>why would it reset bit 4?
11:13<Sonny_Jim>How can I set my server to pause when there's no players?
11:16<chillcore>https://wiki.openttd.org/Min_active_clients
11:17<samu>nooo, this wasn't it
11:17<samu>:(
11:18<Sonny_Jim>chillcore: Thanks
11:18<Sonny_Jim>was grepping for pause
11:18<chillcore>you're welcome ;)
11:20<Sonny_Jim>Ha well I'd setup a server for me and the girlfriend to play on and unfortunately it's been running for years
11:20<Sonny_Jim>oopsy
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11:23<samu>ah
11:23<samu>static inline void MakeIndustry(TileIndex t, IndustryID index, IndustryGfx gfx, uint8 random, WaterClass wc)
11:23<samu> _m[t].m1 = 0;
11:23<samu>that means m1 becomes 00000000 ?
11:23<samu>all of it?
11:26<samu>how do i make it 000x0000? that bit 5 to remain unchanged?
11:26<samu>untouched
11:28<@planetmaker>&= 00010000
11:30<samu>it's bit 4 or 5? I confuse myself sometimes
11:31<samu>bit 4 it is
11:33<Sonny_Jim>Another quick question, how do I set the map size in openttd for a dedicated server?
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11:33<Sonny_Jim>*openttd.cfg
11:34<@planetmaker>Sonny_Jim, though the easiest way for a dedicated server is to create the map locally, and then upload to server and load from server
11:34<Sonny_Jim>Ah I see
11:34<Sonny_Jim>Makes sense
11:35<Sonny_Jim>thanks
11:35<@planetmaker>unless you want to completely automate that it's much nicer to see what you get :)
11:35<Sonny_Jim>Sure
11:35*Sonny_Jim activates columbo mode
11:35<Sonny_Jim>Just one more thing....
11:35<@planetmaker>:D
11:35<Sonny_Jim>She's in Australia, I'm in Europe and she gets dropped occasionally
11:35<Sonny_Jim>The log is telling me to modify a network freq variable?
11:36<Sonny_Jim>net_frame_freq?
11:36<@planetmaker>bad connection. But yes, that one
11:36<Sonny_Jim>(actually the log says a different variable)
11:36<@planetmaker>well, what does it say? :)
11:36<Sonny_Jim>I guess the name of it has been changed and the log not updated
11:36<Sonny_Jim>err let me check
11:36<Sonny_Jim>frame.freq I think it was
11:37<Sonny_Jim>Might want to update the log with the new variable name
11:37<@planetmaker>but yes, you can increase that variable, net_frame_freq. But all what it does is to allow her to play with a bigger lag
11:37<Sonny_Jim>That's fine
11:37<Sonny_Jim>Only happens very occasionally
11:38<chillcore>bbl
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11:40<@planetmaker>Sonny_Jim, there's also max_lag_time
11:41<Sonny_Jim>line 1860 of src/network/network_server.cpp
11:41<Sonny_Jim>"try increasing [network.]frame_freq to a higher value!"
11:41<Sonny_Jim>Is that still right?
11:41<Sonny_Jim>or should it be net_frame_freq?
11:43<@planetmaker>hm. The text is correct... the variable is 'frame_freq'. But the console calls it net_frame_freq
11:45<@planetmaker>but it prints to console... so yes... it should give the name used there
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11:47<Sonny_Jim>See? Open source works :-)
11:49<@planetmaker>it does :)
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11:52<samu>sorry, im dumb
11:52<samu>_m[t].m1 &= 0x10;
11:52<samu>what is this doing
11:52<@planetmaker>hm, yes. but net_frame_freq is a registered alias for frame_freq. Thus it seems to have been renamed somewhen in history, Sonny_Jim. Probably both would work, frame_freq as well as net_frame_freq. You can check by issuing the command in console:
11:52<samu>whatever, i'm gonna try
11:53<@planetmaker>rcon RCONPWD "set VARIABLENAME value"
11:53<Sonny_Jim>Well, my thinking was that I was going to change it in the .cfg fle, so if both works on the console but only net_frame_freq works in the cfg, it would make more sense to me to have it print net_frame_freq.
11:53<Sonny_Jim>But it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other really
11:54<@planetmaker>in the cfg it will be frame_freq
11:54<@planetmaker>but being net_frame_freq an alias it should state the proper name, frame_freq :)
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11:58<@planetmaker>hm... none of my cfgs know such variable.
12:00<@planetmaker>hm... none of my cfgs know such variable.
12:02<V453000>bastard configs
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12:02<samu>planetmaker: _m[t].m1 &= 0x10; is this correct?
12:02<@planetmaker>no
12:03<@planetmaker>samu, but you should use it and see what it does. Then you'll learn the difference
12:03<samu>I did
12:03<@planetmaker>http://xkcd.com/953/
12:04<samu>it changed to 0x30
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12:04<Sonny_Jim>Bitmasks are fun ;-)
12:05<@planetmaker>they are :)
12:05<Sonny_Jim>You trying to turn on bit 10?
12:05<@planetmaker>bit 4?
12:05<samu>no, trying to not change bit 4
12:05<Sonny_Jim>Oh ok
12:05<samu>keep what it is
12:05<Sonny_Jim>Well, 0x10 isn't going to that (from what I remember about bitmasks)
12:06<@planetmaker>0x08, I'd recon
12:06<samu>set every other to 0, except bit 4, which is to remain what it is
12:06<samu>if it's 1, then 1, if it's 0, then 0
12:06<Sonny_Jim>&= ANDs them together, doesn't it?
12:06*Sonny_Jim is thinking this through
12:13<Sonny_Jim>Yeah, I'm with planetmaker on this one
12:13<Sonny_Jim>Bit 4 = 8
12:14<roidal>value &= 1<<4
12:14<Sonny_Jim>Yeah that's probably an easier way to remember it
12:14<Sonny_Jim>1 shifted to the left 4 times
12:14<roidal>ok, its value &= 1 << 3
12:14<roidal>:)
12:14<Sonny_Jim>haha
12:14<Sonny_Jim>I suck at bitmasks
12:15<samu>i put this, wondering what it does: SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0);
12:21-!-alluke [~oftc-webi@62-78-237-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
12:25<samu>gah, the game already converts company owned canals into NO_OWNER
12:25<samu>i must be blind or somethng
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12:34<samu>build on sea SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0
12:34<samu>crap no
12:35<samu>it must say 0x10
12:35<samu>not 0
12:37<samu>build oil rig on sea _m[t].m1 = 0 -> 0
12:38<samu>build oil rig on canal of company 1 _m[t].m1 = 0 -> 0x20
12:39<roidal>placing rail on a tile with trees, does this count like clearing the tile and decrease company rating at the town near to the tile?
12:40-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19810.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes
12:41<samu>build oil rig on sea SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0x10
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>placing rails or other stuff counts as clearing the tile, with all costs and other effects that go with it
12:42<samu>build oil rig on canal of company 1 SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); -> 0x30
12:43<samu>hmm
12:44<samu>i was hoping for 0x20
12:44-!-Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd
12:45<samu>ah ya, the game converts canals to no owner
12:45<samu>yeah, that's the thing i have to implement
12:48<samu>make industries will need 2 owners as well
12:48<samu>one to store canal owner
12:48<samu>is that doable?
12:48-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
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12:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think industries have space for that
12:49<samu>there is
12:50<samu>at m6
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>that again raises the question: why? you can't use the canals under the industry, so why would you keep paying maintenance for them?
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>imagine the industry buys the canals from the company on construction
12:51<samu>but they can close
12:51<samu>canals under it would revert back to original owner
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a useless corner case
12:55<@Terkhen>hello
12:55<@Alberth>hello
12:56<alluke>does anyone have an idea how to convert .xcf to any other image file format?
12:57<alluke>on mac
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>open in gimp, export
12:58<alluke>i dont have gimp and i dont want such obsolete piece of shit software which i have no use for
12:58<alluke>i already have photoshop cs5
12:58<@planetmaker>you can take advice. Or not. your choice
12:58<alluke>tried some online services but both of them failed
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, if that were as good as you claim it to be, it would have an importer for this file format
12:59<alluke>is gimp the only one?
12:59<@planetmaker>you go and search and find out and report back on that
13:00<alluke>i think .xcf is so unused and/or bad that no other software has added support for it
13:00<alluke>already done :(
13:00<roidal>Eddi|zuHause: thanks
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>http://image.online-convert.com/convert-to-jpg <-- this is like the first google result for "convert xcf"
13:01<alluke>yep
13:01<alluke>thats the one i tried
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>and?
13:02<alluke>xcf->psd conversion failed
13:02<alluke>it gives me the link but that doesnt work
13:02<alluke>says the file isnt available
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>then i can't help you.
13:03<alluke>np
13:03<alluke>There has been an error converting your file. Please take a look at our FAQ.
13:03<samu>industries have no owner
13:03<samu>hmm hmm... huuuummmm
13:04<samu>MP_HOUSE, MP_VOID and MP_INDUSTRY.
13:04<V453000>suspension bridge unwrap is fucking ass
13:04<alluke>may the devil eat the head of the invertor of such shitty format >:(
13:05<samu>what can I do:!
13:05<samu>industry itself has no owner, but...
13:05<samu>i'm screwed
13:05<V453000>I love how in this discussion everybody is talking to themselves about their own topic
13:06-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
13:06<andythenorth>o/
13:06<alluke>o7
13:06<V453000>o/
13:06<samu>can i store the owner of canals in industry m6, somewhere in bit 7..6 and 1..0? will the game hate me for that?
13:07-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i5387a2bd.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
13:07<roidal>is there a easy way to upgrade a line from electrical to magnetic?
13:08<roidal>(to change depots and trains)
13:08<samu>that location appears to be compatible with station, water and industry
13:10<samu>or do you have other plans?
13:11<@Alberth>roidal upgrading is so boring, instead build new routes
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>roidal: the "universal track type" grf
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>samu: i would strongly advise against this
13:13<roidal>a "upgrade depot and all including trains"-button would be nice
13:13<roidal>:)
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>roidal: that can't be done
13:13<@Alberth>roidal: play with a different trainset instead
13:13<roidal>Eddi|zuHause: what's the problem?
13:14<roidal>Alberth: hm
13:14<samu>hmm :(
13:15<samu>i'm not making myself clear on the issue
13:15<samu>what i build is a canal, i want it to store canal owner on m6 part
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>roidal: you need to set up an autoreplace rule for each vehicle, and then you need a depot that can support both the old and the new vehicle.
13:15<samu>when i build a industry on a canal, it won't touch whatever it is in that m6 part
13:16<samu>when industry closes, it still wouldn't touch whatever is on that m6 part
13:17<samu>canals are rebuild, and will re-use what's in m6 part, to restore original owners
13:17<samu>is this gonna work?
13:18<samu>same goes for station
13:18<samu>dock, oilrig station, buoy
13:19<samu>and depot
13:19<samu>ship depot
13:25<samu>i will also re-use m1 bit 4 for some condition
13:26<samu>pfff...
13:27<samu>if 1, then no owner
13:27<samu>ignore anything on m6 part
13:27<samu>if 0, then a company owns something
13:29<samu>if water class = canal, and that m1 bit 4 = 0, then get the owner stored in m6 part
13:29<samu>lels
13:30<samu>if water class = invalid, ignore anything on m6 part
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>the more you go on, the more terrible it sounds...
13:30<samu>if water class = sea, ignore m6 part
13:31<samu>if water class = river, ignore m6 part
13:31<samu>why?
13:31<juzza1>is there a way to make an articulated vehicle show a precise capacity in purchase menu (using the same vehicle for the articulated parts)? using purchase_cargo_capacity cb still multiplies the shown capacity by the amount of articulated parts
13:31<andythenorth>juzza1: you have to know the capacity
13:31<andythenorth>also
13:32*andythenorth thinks
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>juzza1: if the parts have different capacity, then you really should use different part IDs...
13:32<andythenorth>iirc, you just return the capacity you want
13:32<andythenorth>when the cb is handled
13:33<andythenorth>if it’s the cb for purchase_cargo_capacity, it shouldn’t be summing the parts, unless I have vastly forgotten something
13:33<andythenorth>I will now paste you some completely unhelpful code which is not relevant to your problem :P
13:34<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/templates/capacity_switches.pynml
13:34<juzza1>Eddi|zuHause: is there some gameplay-related reason for this?
13:35<andythenorth>that code is probably not useful, but eh
13:35<andythenorth>L5, you just return the capacity of your vehicle
13:35<andythenorth>forget most of the other stuff, it’s not relevant
13:36<andythenorth>this is better https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgzmpbwd0
13:36<andythenorth>that’s the compiled result
13:36<andythenorth>these vehicles double capacity if the cargo is mail, you probably don’t want that
13:37<juzza1>everything is good except for the wrong capacity shown at purchase menu
13:41<andythenorth>paste your code
13:44-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0093bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:44<@Alberth>hai
13:45<juzza1>just a sec, making a test nml
13:45<juzza1>or grf
13:48-!-Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd
13:48<frosch123>hola
13:48<frosch123>has anyone of the windows users tried the last nightly?
13:49<frosch123>would be good to know whether right-mouse-button scrolling is completely broken before releasing beta2 :p
13:49<frosch123>i cannot test it in my vm, because rmb-scrolling fails with absolute pointing devices
13:50-!-Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55<juzza1>andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptrutsndc both have 99 purchase capacity (bad) and 33 capacity when inspected (good)
13:57*andythenorth looks
13:57<andythenorth>iirc, spec prefers splitting IDs for lead and trailing parts, due to props that need to be 0 for trailing parts
13:57<andythenorth>but still, don’t think that explains this issue
14:01-!-shirish [~quassel@117.202.206.72] has joined #openttd
14:03<V453000>frosch123: 27168?
14:03<juzza1>i guess the capacity of the first vehicle isn't even strictly defined, since position_in_consist is not available in purchase menu
14:03<frosch123>V453000: yup :)
14:04<V453000>stuff is scrolling for me.
14:04*andythenorth can’t remember how to handle this stuff, it used to be a PITA
14:04<frosch123>also when scrolling long distance without releasing the mouse button?
14:06<andythenorth>dunno, seems capacity just works in Road Hog
14:06<andythenorth>but I don’t reuse same ID for lead / trailing parts
14:06<V453000>yes frosch123
14:06<V453000>flawless
14:06<juzza1>I'll go with separate ids then
14:06<frosch123>ok, thanks :)
14:06<V453000>yw
14:07<samu>question, can towns build houses on river or canal tiles?
14:07<samu>i hope the answer is no
14:08<frosch123>there are some permanently anchored "ships" at the river in my town
14:08<frosch123>do they count as houses?
14:08<samu>i know they can build houses on partial sea/ground tiles
14:09<samu>but then again, rivers and canals can't be built there
14:09<frosch123>they are supposed to be fancy restaurants, but they do not look that fancy anymore
14:15<frosch123>http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2wpct2/why_is_15_so_wet/ <- does this match the other mhl mapgen issues?
14:17-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.38.183] has joined #openttd
14:17<Wolf01>hello
14:17<samu>brb
14:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27169 /trunk (5 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-24 19:25:31 UTC)
14:25<@DorpsGek>-Update: Documentation
14:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27170 tags/1.5.0-beta2/ (2015-02-24 19:27:06 UTC)
14:27<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.5.0-beta2
14:27<samu>here's what i've been workign on
14:27<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
14:28<samu>figuring out that grid map
14:28<samu>for m1 cell
14:28<samu>it's at the right side
14:31-!-samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-252-91.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14:31-!-samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-252-91.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
14:31<samu>i'm counting bits wrong
14:31<samu>should start at 7 and finish at 0
14:32<samu>let me fix
14:32<samu>fixed
14:33<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
14:34<samu>i've been giving special attention at that bit 4
14:34<samu>it's always 0 when it's owned by a company
14:34<samu>and 1 when it's not, that's why I think i can use it
14:37-!-roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
14:40<Sonny_Jim>So, with max_platform_length = 5, does that mean I can fit trains that are 10 in it?
14:45-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19810.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
14:47-!-Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d820364.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.]
14:47<samu>if using default trains, yes
14:48<andythenorth>also where is cat?
14:48<@Alberth>Sonny_Jim: you do get a loading time penalty if the train is longer than the platform
14:50<samu>albert, i found a "not a bug yet"
14:50<samu>but it would be helpful if it was fixed
14:52<samu>it's at line 283 of industry_map.h
14:52<samu>it is setting all of m1 to 0
14:52<samu>but according to grid
14:52<samu>m1 b4 is not used
14:53<samu>bit 4
14:53<samu>landscape_grid.html
15:02-!-alluke [~oftc-webi@62-78-237-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
15:05<frosch123>@seen lordaro
15:05<@DorpsGek>frosch123: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <LordAro> or notepad++
15:06-!-longtomjr [~oftc-webi@196-210-62-230.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:16<samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxiroplnx
15:16<samu>pleese!
15:16-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:16-!-chillcore [~chillcore@91.182.36.19] has joined #openttd
15:17<chillcore>o/
15:18-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd
15:19<samu>oh, forgot to add a comment
15:24<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.4.4, 1.5.0-beta2
15:24-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.4, 1.5.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
15:25<samu>is this a good comment?
15:25<samu> SB(_m[t].m1, 0, 4, 0); SB(_m[t].m1, 5, 3, 0); // Make sure bit 4 is not changed.
15:26<samu>changed? altered? zero'ed? is that even a term?
15:26<samu>untouched
15:26<samu>intact
15:26<samu>unaffected
15:27-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
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15:29<samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pigwwlfp4
15:30<samu>if there's another elegant way to write that piece of code to do the same, plz teach me
15:33<@Alberth>_m[t].m1 &= ~(1<<4) ?
15:34<@Alberth>hmm, wrong, _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
15:37<Sonny_Jim>could someone check that they are able to connect to this server please; openttd.servebeer.com
15:37<Sonny_Jim>Thanks
15:39<samu>&= 1<<4
15:40<samu>ok, wondering what &= do
15:40<samu>brb
15:41<Sonny_Jim>There's a good wiki page about C bitwise operators
15:42<samu>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operators_in_C_and_C%2B%2B#Operator_precedence
15:42<samu>Assignment by bitwise AND
15:42<samu>yeah... I mean what?
15:42<Sonny_Jim>00 AND 11 = 00
15:43<Sonny_Jim>01 AND 11 = 01
15:43<samu>and the << is Bitwise left shift
15:43<Sonny_Jim>Yes, so 1<<4 is 1000
15:47<samu>confused
15:49<@Alberth>what's the confusion?
15:49<samu>my understanding
15:50<samu>at bit position 4 it does something like << and then 1
15:50<samu>lol
15:51<@Alberth>1 is a '1' bit at position 0, which is equal to 1<<0
15:52<@Alberth>1 << 1 increments the position by 1, a '1' bit at position 1, thus 1<<4 is a '1' bit at position 4
15:52<@Alberth>it's literally shifting bits
15:54<samu>what about zeroing the others?
15:54<samu>bit 4 is incremented by 1
15:54<samu>becomes 10?
15:55<Sonny_Jim>8 in decimal
15:55<Sonny_Jim>1000 in binary
15:55<samu>isn't that bit position 3?
15:55<Sonny_Jim>No
15:55<Sonny_Jim>bit 1 is 1, bit 2 is 2, bit 3 is 4
15:57<raincomplex>depends on if you're counting from 1 or 0 ;P
15:57<Sonny_Jim>My bitwise stuff is fairly rusty
15:57<samu>76543210
15:57<samu>bit 4
15:58<samu>or the 10000
15:58<@Alberth>yes it's position 3 (2**3 == 8)
15:58<raincomplex>oh yeah 1<<4 is 10000
15:58<raincomplex>remember that 1<<0 is 1
15:58<Sonny_Jim>Aaah
15:58<raincomplex>heh
15:58<Sonny_Jim>I need some bitwise oil on my brain gears
15:59<raincomplex>bits are ugly
15:59-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C0A5.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:59<@Alberth>nah, they are the simplest thing that exists
15:59<samu>what happens to bits 765 and 3210 albert?
15:59<@Alberth>I mean, it has 2 values, how complicated can it be? :)
16:00-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
16:00<Sonny_Jim>a 3210 bit number would be impressive
16:00<samu>those locations
16:00<@Alberth>samu: when?
16:00<samu>in that operation
16:00<Sonny_Jim>Oh I see, you are referring to your example
16:00<@Alberth>which one, the & or the << ?
16:00<Sonny_Jim>7653210 &= 1<<3
16:01<samu>(m1)
16:01<Sonny_Jim>Err, bad example
16:01<samu>_m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
16:01<samu>gah, ok here it is
16:02<@Alberth>_m[t].m1 &= 1<<4 is (almost) the same as _m[t].m1 = _m[t].m1 & (1 << 4);
16:03<samu>ah
16:03<@Alberth>the difference is that the _m[t]. part is not computed twice
16:04<samu>if m1 is 10101010 then it becomes 10111010?
16:05-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A44A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05<@Alberth>no
16:05<samu>00010000 ?
16:06<@Alberth>suppose the right bit is 0, what is the result for the left bit being 1, and for left bit being 0 ?
16:06<@Alberth>ie what is 1 & 0 and what is 0 & 0 ?
16:07<@Alberth>similarly, same question for right bit is 1 (thus 1 & 1 and 0 & 1)
16:08<Sonny_Jim>I think you want to use OR instead of AND
16:08<LordAro>a week ago? no way was it a week ago i last said something
16:08<LordAro>o/ frosch123
16:09<frosch123>yeah, i wondered as well :)
16:09<@Alberth>nope, not if you want to clear out all bits but bit 4
16:09<Sonny_Jim>Oh ok
16:09<samu>the right bit is 0, increment 1, right bit becomes 1?
16:09<LordAro>@seen lordaro
16:09<@DorpsGek>LordAro: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 59 seconds ago: <LordAro> o/ frosch123
16:09<Sonny_Jim>I thought he wanted the bits the same, but to turn on bit 4
16:09<LordAro>well, it's not broken
16:09<frosch123>LordAro: i definitely had no second thougths on highlighting you
16:10<samu>i want 765 then 3210 to turn into 0
16:10<LordAro>i'm always here
16:10<LordAro>..watching
16:10<samu>and i want 4 to stay
16:10<Sonny_Jim>Ah, AND it is then
16:10<LordAro>..waiting
16:10<Sonny_Jim>Oh ok, that's different
16:10<samu>ok, but still i don't understand how to read
16:10<samu>interpret the operators
16:11<Sonny_Jim>0x00 &= 1<<4 if my brain isn't completely dead
16:11<frosch123>"second thoughts" is not the right term, no idea what is the correct one though
16:11<frosch123>maybe "hidden agenda"
16:11<LordAro>:p
16:13<Sonny_Jim>Ah wait, you want bit 4 taken from the original variable thingy-me-bob
16:14<samu>suppose the right bit is 0, what is the result for the left bit being 1, and for left bit being 0 ? i'm trying to answer this question yet
16:14<Sonny_Jim>ok, so lets break it down
16:14<Sonny_Jim>1 & 1?
16:14<juzza1>2
16:14<Sonny_Jim>;-)
16:14<@Alberth>juzza1: 10 in the binary system :p
16:15<LordAro>frosch123: but yeah, wiki updated :p
16:15<frosch123>thanks :)
16:16<samu>that's it, I'm dumb
16:17<samu>1 & 0
16:17<samu>0 & 0
16:18<samu>right bit is incremented by 1
16:19<@Alberth>maybe you want to read what the AND operator does
16:19<samu>Bitwise AND
16:19<samu>Left-to-right
16:19<samu>keks
16:19<samu>i don't know
16:22<FLHerne>samu: 'left-to-right' not an issue, it just ANDs each corresponding pair of bits
16:23<FLHerne>So 1100 & 1010 is 1000, because 1&1 is 1, 1&0 is 0, 0&1...
16:23<samu>i'm reading this, hoping i learn something http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_shift
16:23<FLHerne>Oh, shifts now
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16:29<samu>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation#AND
16:33<samu>ahm
16:33<samu>there it is
16:33<samu>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_conjunction#Applications_in_computer_engineering
16:34<samu>For example, 10011101 AND 00001000 = 00001000 extracts the fifth bit of an 8-bit bitstring.
16:35<samu>AND is an extractor
16:35<samu>now I know
16:35<samu>:p
16:35<FLHerne>samu: Among other things
16:35<samu>&= means extract and then equal to the value extracted?
16:36<FLHerne>a &= b is equivalent to a = a&b
16:36<FLHerne>So yes, if you're using AND that way
16:36<samu>intresting
16:36<frosch123>he, i recently read that k&r c actually uses "=-" instead of "-="
16:37<frosch123>which made "a=-5" ambiguous
16:37<frosch123>C really has a history of terrible syntax :)
16:38<samu>logic was my worst class in university
16:40<samu>i was better at math with those ugly big matrix things
16:40<samu>than logic
16:40<FLHerne>frosch123: Really? That would be inconsistent with all the other thing= operators
16:40<FLHerne>Unless they were all that way?
16:40<frosch123>yup, they were all reversed, resp. existed in both ways
16:40<Sonny_Jim>a += 1 increments a by 1, the same as a = a + 1
16:41<@Alberth>x[i++] += 5 :p
16:41<frosch123>FLHerne: i always say, if C++ was made by the same guys as C was, then public/protected/private would be written as "**:" "***": and "****" :p
16:42<@Alberth>which is where += and normal assignment makes a difference
16:42<frosch123>though < > of c++ templates are also awesome ambiguous
16:42<@Rubidium>Alberth: luckily there are at least 3 locations in that statement where it might behave differently than you expect it to (with C++)
16:42<frosch123>or the new rvalue references :)
16:43<FLHerne>"1972 - Dennis Ritchie invents a powerful gun that shoots both forward and backward simultaneously. Not satisfied with the number of deaths and permanent maimings from that invention he invents C and Unix."
16:43<@Alberth>Rubidium: yeah, operator opverloading for the win :p
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16:43<FLHerne>That timeline page was fun, I should bookmark it and then wonder why I did so
16:43<samu>_m[t].m1 &= 1<<4;
16:43<samu>is this teh same as
16:44<samu>_m[t].m1 &= 0x10;
16:44<@Rubidium>and the same as _m[t].m1 &= 020; ;)
16:45<frosch123>yay, more terrible syntax :)
16:45<@Rubidium>yay peculiarities
16:45<samu>ok', i'll use alberths' syntax
16:46<@Rubidium>talking about peculiarities... in Window's calculator the result of certain calculations differ between "simple" and "programmer"/"scientific" view
16:48<frosch123>http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19205-01/819-5265/bjbfb/index.html <- haha, some items on that list are hillarious
16:49<+glx>Rubidium: rounding ?
16:49<frosch123>"Accepts 8 or 9 in octal escape sequences. " <- but knowing my co-workers, i can imagine that that is an actual compatibiilty issue
16:49<+glx>or precision ?
16:50<samu>here it is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
16:50<samu>better?
16:51<@Rubidium>glx: try 1+2*3
16:52<+glx>oh nice
16:52<samu>1 & 0 = 0?
16:52<samu>NOOO, that can't be
16:52<samu>1 & 1 = 1 else it's not doing what I want
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16:53<frosch123>Rubidium: do you hint that it changes operator precedence?
16:53<+glx>programmer respects operators precedence
16:53<frosch123>btw. since when does win calc support terms?
16:53<@Rubidium>6.something
16:54<+glx>simple mode just execute operations as you give an operator
16:54<samu>im gonna test this
16:54<samu>brb
16:58<chillcore>Alberth ... I do hope you are right about the mountains being glitch free now. ;)
16:59<frosch123>http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2wpct2/why_is_15_so_wet/ <- chillcore: do you have an idea about that?
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17:02<chillcore>higher maxheight, less water, up scale is what I would try first
17:02<chillcore>scale ofcourse is in the source
17:02<chillcore>less variation too
17:02<frosch123>i wonder whether it is a similar precision issue as with that other fs task
17:02<chillcore>too bad I can not see the gamesettings
17:03<frosch123>iirc. water level was choosen after generarting the basic heights to match water level
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17:03<chillcore>I have not yet browseed the thread ... lemme have aquick glance
17:03<frosch123>well, there is only the screenshot
17:04<frosch123>the rest is hot air
17:04<chillcore>it reddit ... what did I expect :P
17:04<samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
17:05<samu>if bit 4 is 0, will that turn to 00000000 as well?
17:05<chillcore>8 comments hehe
17:05<chillcore>too high water level ... I think
17:05<chillcore>maybe bad seed too
17:05<chillcore>it all ties so closely toghether
17:05-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
17:06<samu>i really hope so, cus i don't have a way to test that atm
17:06<chillcore>moki seems eager to help me tune the perlin noise
17:06<chillcore>I want to give him the option to tune small maps too first ... kinda
17:07<chillcore>so I can continue concentrating on the rest
17:07<chillcore>as for the picture ... the perlin noise plays a rather big factor and I am not happy with what is in trunk now
17:07<frosch123>very flat + very high variety seems to result in a lot of water
17:07<chillcore>damned ISP
17:07<chillcore>yes
17:07<chillcore>reduce variety
17:07<frosch123>very flat + very high variety => very very flat :p
17:08<chillcore>hehe
17:08<chillcore>but ye if you already start with flat ...
17:08<chillcore>then you get flatter as variations
17:08<chillcore>kinda logical
17:09*chillcore ponders making that max height setting magically disapear and fix it at 255
17:10<chillcore>^^^ I can make as flat as I want with perlin noise despite that setting ;)
17:10<samu>nevermind, I discovered windows calculator can do AND operations
17:10<samu>I am sooo dumb
17:10<frosch123>you need some definition what height actually means
17:10<chillcore>hehe
17:10<frosch123>the height scale defines rainforest, newgrf mountatins and stuff
17:10<chillcore>yes I know
17:10<frosch123>if you fix it at 255, you will never have "high terrain" on small maps
17:11<frosch123>you could tie it stronger to the map size
17:12<frosch123>similar as to "load heightmap", which warns if the selected map size ratio differs a lot from the image ratio
17:12<chillcore>hmm .... I will dive into this later, I know there is stuff I do not know about
17:12<samu>11111111 AND 00010000 = 00000000
17:12<frosch123>(like generating 16x4k map from square image)
17:12<samu>nop
17:12<samu>1111 1111 AND 0001 0000 = 0001 0000
17:12<frosch123>i.e. give a warning if the max height does not fit well to the map size
17:13<samu>1110 1111 AND 0001 0000 = 0000 0000
17:13<chillcore>frosch: yes we could do something like that.
17:13<frosch123>or make it choosen automatically for random maps (won't work that well in scenedit though)
17:14<chillcore>I just do not understand where all the bugreports went while doing my pacthpack ...
17:14<chillcore>at least someone should have reported probs ... regarding this setting I mean
17:14<frosch123>were there bug reports? :)
17:14<chillcore>nope
17:15<chillcore>not in regards of newGRF, forest and the likes
17:15<frosch123>exactly :p people do not report bugs for patches, because they count as unfinished
17:15<chillcore>true
17:15<frosch123>people assume that everyone knows about the bugs
17:15<@planetmaker>*assume* :)
17:15<chillcore>also true
17:15<samu>implement this patch for me plz
17:15<samu>it's working, according to windows calculator
17:16<samu>then i can work on the rest
17:16<samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
17:16<chillcore>but yeah we could make a difference between simply generating maps and the scenarioeditor, in regards of certain behaviour during mapgeneration
17:16<Wolf01>'night
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17:17<@planetmaker>chillcore, yes. Though when it comes to setting parameters: why?
17:17<@planetmaker>though the SE could offer advanced generation options which don't fit the quick map generation window.
17:17<@planetmaker>but then the question will come: why :)
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17:19<chillcore>because if you click "new game" I asume you want a quick game
17:19<chillcore>when you click create scenario yo want freedom?
17:19<chillcore>to create that is?
17:19<frosch123>we need a mapgen preview :)
17:19<@planetmaker>yes. And yes, too
17:20<frosch123>then we can add lots of settings without explanation :)
17:20<chillcore>that would help a lot frosh
17:21<frosch123>one could just add a bok "map shape" and then 10 unlabeled sliders under it :p
17:21<frosch123>*box
17:21<@planetmaker>lol, frosch123 :)
17:21<chillcore>hihi
17:21<chillcore>tooltip "does something"
17:22<frosch123>today we have to explain stuff like "variety distribution"
17:22<@planetmaker>But you better name them so people can discuss. Catchy names like Rusty Rain, Amazing Abyss, Fine Fissures... :P
17:22<frosch123>though usually it is shortened to "do not choose 'high'" :p
17:22<chillcore>hehe I have been thinking about a proper explanation ... not sure if I will find one
17:23<chillcore>moki seems to understand ... from what he wrote
17:23<frosch123>planetmaker: actually,labeling them with single letters would give an magic map code "A123B456C789..."
17:23<frosch123>setting and value pairs :p
17:23<frosch123>we could store them as presets in openttd.cfg
17:23<@planetmaker>:)
17:24<frosch123>chillcore: there is one in advanced settings
17:24<frosch123>(i think)
17:24<chillcore>you mean varietu distribution or perlin noise?
17:25<frosch123>some of the mapgen settings are also in the adv. settings now, though the target was to have all settings in adv. settings (ust to make it easy to find any setting)
17:25<frosch123>chillcore: variety dist
17:25<chillcore>k. checking
17:25<@planetmaker>also, it's not called *advanced* settings any longer ;)
17:26<frosch123>yup, i use it as an emphasis :p
17:26<chillcore>indeed ... no more advanced advanced setting :P
17:27<@planetmaker>tehehe :)
17:27<@planetmaker>however good night from me now :)
17:27<chillcore>good night planetmaker
17:29<samu>what happens to patchs that are on bug.openttd-org?
17:29<samu>typos
17:31<samu>meh, i'm submiting another
17:31<samu>hope you like it
17:33<chillcore>"Adds variation to the map so that not all mountains are of equal height; also adds some rather flat-ish areas so you may want to keep terrain type at hilly or higher."
17:34<chillcore>frosch ^^^ ??
17:34<chillcore>better?
17:34<frosch123>did you find the current one?
17:34<chillcore>"+ when enabling this setting"
17:35<chillcore>yes I did, hence my suggestion :P
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17:35<chillcore>it does say what it does on the tin ... no comment there
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17:52<chillcore><planetmaker> But you better name them so people can discuss. Catchy names like Rusty Rain, Amazing Abyss, Fine Fissures... :P
17:53<chillcore>I still have CommanderZ his patch i the back of my mind ... "atol" and such
17:54<chillcore>but that again is something completely different for laters
17:56<samu>can i have an opinion from someone?
17:56<Sonny_Jim>Don't ask to ask
17:57<samu>ok
17:57<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
17:57<samu>look at the table to the right
17:57<samu>the one with m1
17:58<samu>i dunno how to report my finding
17:58<samu>MakeIndustry is zeroing m1 which is incorrect
17:59<samu>TileType Industry, m1, bit 4
18:00<samu>bah i suck at explaining things
18:02<samu>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/53f10edbd7f1/docs/landscape_grid.html
18:02<samu>there
18:02<samu>class 8, m1, bit 4 says it's free to use
18:03<samu>which is not entirely correct because of line 283 here http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/53f10edbd7f1/src/industry_map.h#l283
18:04<samu>and my patch is attempting to fix that, my patch is this: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk5aoucx0
18:04<samu>do I make sense with this explaination?
18:06<samu>here's the other document, scroll down to Industry part - http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/53f10edbd7f1/docs/landscape.html
18:06<samu>m1 bit 4 isn't described for anything
18:10<samu>what is the correct behaviour?
18:12<samu>it's a bit that is free yes, but as a "I don't care what you are" bit
18:12<samu>do you get what I'm trying to say?
18:13<samu>guess not
18:15<samu>I plan to make use of that bit, but if industries are setting it to 0, then it's ruining my plan
18:16<samu>pfff no one answers t.t
18:17<chillcore>I would not know what to answer you samu ...
18:17<chillcore>also I kinda lost what you wanted to do a few days ago ... no offence
18:17<chillcore>you started with rivers then canals now industries ...
18:17<samu>i am now finding free bits
18:18<chillcore>would help a lot if people understood what your exact goal is?
18:18<samu>and discovered that bit, but after soem investigation, that bit isn't really free
18:18<samu>MakeIndustry is setting it to 0
18:18<chillcore>everything needs to have a value even if not used ?
18:19<samu>current goal is store canal owners, but for that I must find compatible free bits
18:19<samu>that one would be compatible, if it was not for MakeIndustry setting it to 0
18:19<chillcore>is it used afterwards somewhere?
18:19<samu>nope
18:19<chillcore>note; I sux at bits magics
18:20<chillcore>then remove the industrie zeroing it and asign it to what you want ... maybe?
18:21<chillcore>my guess, emphasis on guess, is that when not given a value the code will complain
18:21<chillcore>so zero is given just to keep the peace?
18:21<samu>i am quite limited in free bits, and not sure if I need 4 or 5
18:22<samu>if I am to need 5, that bit there would be the one I'd need, there's really only 5 free bits
18:22<chillcore>I see 19 free bits in m1 alone ...
18:23<samu>no, because they have also to be compatible with station and water
18:23<samu>there's really only 5 bits
18:23<chillcore>hmm ...
18:24<samu>Industry is class 8 in the grid
18:24<chillcore>k
18:25<samu>my excel table tries to solve my puzzle
18:25<chillcore>hehe
18:25<samu>havent done it yet for m6
18:25<samu>but i am quite sure there won't be conflicts
18:26<chillcore>if I learned one thing about openttd is to be sure of nothing
18:26<chillcore>proof is in the code
18:26<chillcore>s proof/truth
18:27<samu>station and water are using m1 to do the same thing
18:30<samu>water tiles always set bit 4 to 1, because the owner is either OWNER_WATER, OWNER_SEA, OWNER_RIVER
18:30<samu>wait, there's no OWNER_RIVER
18:30<samu>lol
18:31<samu>well, i know its 10000 or 10001
18:31<samu>thar 1xxxx is what I want to retrieve
18:31<samu>will be using it as a flag
18:34<samu>then at m6 (assuming those free bits are indeed free), I will store company owners
18:34<samu>company owners are only 4 bits, there's 15 companies
18:35<samu>if the flag indicates a 0, it would mention that the canal is owned by one of the companies
18:36<samu>if the flag indicates a 1, it would mention that the canal is owned by non company owners, like OWNER_NONE, OWNER_WATER, OWNER_DEITY
18:37<chillcore>k
18:37<samu>that's how I plan to store the owners for canals (and other waterclasses)
18:40<samu>any objection?
18:41<chillcore>like I said I sux at bits magic
18:41<samu>:)
18:41<chillcore>I'd hate to give you wrong advice ... so do a lot of people
18:41<chillcore>that is why sometimes noone answers ...
18:41<chillcore>;)
18:42<samu>with that bit 4, i'd be able to restore the original owners
18:42<samu>the exact ones
18:44<chillcore>m2 has 32 free bits in the watery parts ...
18:44<chillcore>why not use those?
18:46<samu>it's being used by industries, namely oil rig which is also placed on water
18:47<chillcore>hmm then why are they marked as free then ...
18:47<samu>it's only oil rig
18:48<samu>as far as I understand, it's free for the tile type water, only if you use water
18:48<samu>i am however trying to combine 3 different types
18:48<samu>station, water and industry
18:48<samu>to find compatibilities between them 3
18:49<chillcore>hmm ...
18:50<samu>m2 is also being used by ship depot
18:51<samu>let me look
18:52<samu>•m2: Depot index (for depots only)
18:52<samu>ya, can't use that
18:52<samu>doesn't mention how many of them it's using, but apparently it's all of those bits
18:53<chillcore>yes it does samu ... those docs should be fairly accurate
18:54<chillcore>granted it may happen (may) that someone forgts to adjust the docs
18:54<chillcore>maybe once, even twice
18:54<samu>when it's not a ship depot, it's a station, also for index
18:54<chillcore>not 16 times
18:55<samu>that means i can build 2^16 depots?
18:56<samu>65536 ship depots
18:56<samu>keks
18:58<samu>•m3: random bits (NewGRF) for Industry tiles
18:59<samu>m3 was so tempting at first
18:59<samu>but then I remembered that oil rigs can also be built on water
18:59<samu>and :(
19:01<chillcore>I still do not understand where you are going with this ...
19:02<chillcore>if for example an oil rig dissapears ... why do you insist on restoring "a" owner?
19:03<chillcore>that tiles becomes water again and that's it?
19:03<samu>it is not just oil rig
19:03<chillcore>as for restoring rivers after stuff on them is unbuilt ... loop over the map and store the tiles ina list ... in tick 0
19:04<samu>i was thinking of everything that can be build on a canal at first
19:04<chillcore>then when removing canals you look in the list and if this tile was a river make it a river again?
19:04<chillcore>yes I know ... that is why I ma confused about your goal
19:05<samu>canals with no owner
19:05<samu>was where I started
19:05<chillcore>why would you differntiate between owners?
19:06<chillcore>KISS
19:06<chillcore>at games start ... is this a river yes or no
19:06<samu>i wanted to find a way to build ship depots and docks on canals owned by a competitor
19:06<chillcore>huhu
19:06<samu>the game doesn't let me do that
19:06<chillcore>indeed that was your first goal
19:07<chillcore>now you are doing 15 at once
19:07<samu>soon i realised that the problem isn't easily solved without touching more parts
19:07<chillcore>that is true for many parts of the code yes
19:08<samu>realised i had to store owners for those canals somewhere
19:08<chillcore>but why ... just care about is this mine or not
19:09<samu>let me point to this bug report
19:09<samu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6232
19:09<samu>it's very related to that
19:11<samu>i see it as a 3-sided problem
19:12<samu>and i want to "universalize" it
19:12<chillcore>you do that after solving each one seperatly?
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19:13<samu>must solve all 3 at once, it's the only way I can go at it
19:13<chillcore>ok
19:13<samu>there's always a missing part of the puzzle when i try to solve only 1
19:14<chillcore>so you want a competitors canal with your buoy to show three owners in the gui?
19:15<samu>i don't need 3 owners
19:15<samu>2 is sufficient from what I can tell
19:15<samu>when it's a station, it's not an industry
19:15<samu>i checked that for the oil rig
19:16<chillcore>sure oil rig is not also an industry?
19:16<chillcore>while being a station
19:16<samu>m1 bit 7 indicates that there is a complete industry at the tile
19:16<chillcore>industries are more then one tile
19:16<samu>i mean, a completed state industry
19:17<chillcore>each tile has the capability to be whatever it wants, accepts whatever it wants
19:17<samu>look at excell
19:17<samu>https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A
19:17<chillcore>what is airport?
19:17<chillcore>station or depot
19:17<chillcore>??
19:17<chillcore>or both
19:17<samu>airports aren't being touched, but it's a station
19:18<chillcore>and where do the little planes come from samu?
19:18<chillcore>hangar ... which is a depot
19:18<chillcore>inside your station
19:18<samu>i haven't watched at the airport
19:18<samu>let me look
19:19<chillcore>same for oilrig ... one tile is dock, rest is industry
19:19<chillcore>or vice versa
19:24<samu>ah i see
19:24<samu>airports are WATER_CLASS_INVALID
19:25<samu>hangars too
19:25<chillcore>that I do not know ... I just wanted to point out that with oil rigs the same things happens
19:25<chillcore>there is an industry part
19:26<chillcore>and a station part, except that station is never owned by a company so all can use it
19:26<samu>the station is being identified as oil rig station
19:26<chillcore>good
19:26<samu>it's stored at m6 too at bits... hmmm let me find
19:27<chillcore>I need to be somewhere in 9 hours so ... not going to be here till 4:30 today
19:28<samu>bits 5, 4 and 3
19:29<samu>that indicates what kind of station
19:29<samu>oil rig is...
19:29<chillcore>I dunno honestly, I guess dock since it is for ships to use
19:29<samu>crap, fast forwarding
19:29<samu>is sooo slow in debug mode
19:30<chillcore>try smaller maps maybe
19:30<samu>let me build in scenario editor, brb
19:31<samu>0x20
19:32<samu>m6 = 0010 0000
19:32<samu>bits 543 are then 100
19:32<samu>100 = oil rig
19:32<samu>station
19:33<samu>it's a station, much like a buoy or dock
19:33<chillcore>tadaaaa ... now check the other tiles too?
19:33<samu>k
19:34<samu>m6 = 0
19:34<samu>let me look at industry what m6 stores
19:35<samu>•m6 bits 5..3: random triggers (NewGRF)
19:35<samu>no idea what that is, but I don't intend to touch those bits
19:36<samu>•m6 bit 2: bit 8 of type (see m5)
19:36<samu>•m5: type (plus m6 bit 2):
19:36<samu>well, i don't intend to touch bit 2 either
19:36<samu>i will touch bits 7..6, and 1..0
19:39<samu>the oil rig station is a "oil rig station", lel
19:39<samu>not a "dock" or "airport", it's is own thing, "oil rig station"
19:40<chillcore>good you learned somthing new
19:42<samu>yeah
19:42<samu>thanks
19:42<chillcore>I need to go to sleep now ... otherwise I will not sleep at all
19:42<samu>okay, cya good night
19:42<chillcore>you're welcome samu, good luck
19:42<chillcore>good night
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20:23<samu>patch posted: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6235
20:23<samu>and now, off to bed, cyas all
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22:33<Pikkaphone>and did those feet
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22:40<DDR>Hello, all. :)
22:45<supermop>yo
22:45<Pikkaphone>yoyo
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23:31<supermop>what's going on
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23:36<chillcore>o/
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23:48<Pikkaphone>might be
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 25 00:00:28 2015