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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-02-27

---Logopened Fri Feb 27 00:00:31 2015
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00:19<Pikkaphone>supermop : if you want. I started one for the couple I coded so far.
00:28<supermop>how do you specify the space to leave between vehicle segments? should i make transparent fake vehicles for those parts?
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04:00<Pikkaphone>supermop - space between vehicles? How do you mean? I can easily code up invisible spacers if required (like at the ends of the As)
04:25<@planetmaker>moin moin
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04:50*V453000 has decided to make 9-part articulated unit trains instead of 10 units
04:50<V453000>having 1 center units sounds like a good idea
04:51<supermop>Pikkaphone: i've been just drawing boxes for the size of the hard parts of the tram vehicles, leaving the bellows part 'blank'
04:51<supermop>so i have the boxes to reference when drawing the real parts
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05:15<supermop>i wonder if 2015 is too late for drop crotch pants
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05:50<V453000>could be good if you drop shit in them
05:55<supermop>too late to dress like circa 2011 kanye all the time
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06:02<Celestar>bah drop crotch
06:05<Sacro>morning Celestar
06:11<supermop>people still wearing them in melbourne
06:12<V453000>some here too dont worry bout it
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06:16<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood the point of those...
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06:19<V453000>hm can I be using the same template for x1 8bpp and 32bpp with recolour mask?
06:19<V453000>vehicles now
06:19<V453000>like, can spriteset () have the same template as alternative_sprites that way? :d
06:22<@planetmaker>V453000, no, as the 32bpp needs the mask which the 8bpp one doesn't
06:22<V453000>that is what I thought
06:22<@planetmaker>you might use nested templates, though
06:22<@planetmaker>but not sure they're really that helpful
06:22<@planetmaker>depends on how and what :)
06:22<V453000>ok fuck it I will just use 3 various templates
06:22<V453000>not that big deal
06:23<V453000> / except it is times 9 XD
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06:41<chillcore>hello all
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09:25<V453000>purchase sprites also have ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, IN_X1 and IN_X4?
09:25<V453000>or just normal?
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09:29<@planetmaker>they can have also 1x,2x,4x
09:29<@planetmaker>and 8bpp/32bpp
09:30<@planetmaker>there's GUI zoom, you know :)
09:30<V453000>jesus fuck xd
09:30<V453000>so I guess I just provide NORMAL
09:31<V453000>which are already a bit bigger
09:31<V453000>I like what pikka does with pineapples
09:31<V453000>big imuges
09:32<@planetmaker>but he did so when there was no GUI zoom yet.
09:32<@planetmaker>it's not nice to break that
09:32<@planetmaker>it's the same shit as zbase offering totally off-scale gui
09:32<V453000>sure but when you set gui zoom to x2, everything enlarges
09:32<V453000>with this the size stays
09:33<@planetmaker>and it totally breaks that feature of gui zoom
09:33<V453000>ok so does it basically mean I have to provide x1 x2 and x4 or just x1 and x4 is nuff
09:33<V453000>I guess x2 isnt a huge issue
09:33<@planetmaker>thus all this shit of hackish-fix-within-newgrf-what-should-be-gui makes any reasonable change to that about even more nasty
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09:34<V453000>for me to create that is
09:34<V453000>I mean
09:34<V453000>to me, gui zoom x2 looks fugly on all levels
09:34<V453000>but I would like only train purchase sprites bigger
09:34<V453000>only those
09:34<@planetmaker>yes. But it's really, really bad to break the GUI sizes
09:35<V453000>the gui was even made to adapt to purchase sprite size like last year?
09:35<@planetmaker>I also believe that the GUI 2x zoom is too much
09:35<V453000>for bigger ships and shit?
09:35<@planetmaker>of course, GUI adopts to the sprite sizes, yes
09:36<@planetmaker>imho openttd needs a 1.5x zoom for gui
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>i always wanted a bigger sprite in the details section of the purchase window
09:36<@planetmaker>and ^ is a good idea, too
09:36<@planetmaker>instead of huge ones in the list
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09:36<V453000>that cant be done from newgrf side at the moment can it
09:36<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, write a patch :)
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>and no :p
09:36<@planetmaker>neither can
09:37<V453000>so I will just provide x2-ish as normal zoom for now and see about it later
09:37<@planetmaker>bah :S that sucks. I hate 2x sprites in purchase lists. gives you no overview at all
09:38<V453000>is why I say ish, might be 1.5 :P
09:38<juzza1>redraw _everything_ at 1.5x is obviously the solution
09:40<chillcore>hey hey hey, back off ... eddi is busy with regex already ... :P
09:40<@planetmaker>is he?
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, for about 5 years :p
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10:18<V453000>OH FUCK
10:18<V453000>I just did a check for position_in_vehid_consist and didnt realize different articulated vehicles count as different units in that consist XD
10:19<V453000>guess position in consist should work if I always have vehicles articulate same amount of units
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10:46<V453000>hmm guess I cant put variables into templates
10:48<V453000>rest works great just some offsets now :D from sprites
10:48<V453000>concept works :D
10:49<V453000>eh nevermind the offset mass-changing is pointless, I need to do it view by view anywya
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause>RIP leonard nimoy :/
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13:16<Samu>this works, but it's overkill
13:18<Samu>it isn't actually working 100% without introducing another problem, water maintenance counting is wrong
13:18<Samu>but that's because this is not the right way to get the value from a bit to restore it later
13:19<Samu>what is the correct way to use backup?
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13:20<@Alberth>I have no idea what it does at all
13:22<Samu>okay, i want to use backup to get the value of bit 4 of that current tile
13:22<Samu>m1 bit 4
13:23<Samu>then restore it right after the CMD LANDSCAPE_CLEAR
13:23<Samu>and then proceed to MakeIndustry
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13:24<Samu>if i backup ownership
13:24<Samu>it is also restoring canal maintenance for whoever company had a canal there, it's overkill
13:25<+glx>why not just store the owner before clear then pass it to makeindustry ?
13:25<+glx>you overcomplicate things I think
13:27<Samu>how do I store the owner?
13:28<+glx>Owner old_owner = GetTileOwner(tile)
13:28<Samu>oh, i had trying a similar thing
13:29<Samu>in this case it's cur_tile
13:29<+glx>(note that my code may be wrong, but the idea is there)
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13:47<Samu>it works :)
13:47<Samu>much simpler even
13:50<Samu>i think it is working, let me confirm
13:50<@Alberth>the simplest solutions are the hardest to find :p
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13:52<Leander_>I've restarted playing openttd lately, and I'm quite enjoying
13:53<Leander_>but (of course, there is a "but") there's a strange sound effect and I have no idea whether the game is trolling me or what
13:54<Leander_>I regularly hear people singing "chaca chaca chaca chaca chaca choo chooooo"
13:55<Leander_>it's really puzzling me and I have no idea where it comes from and why it is triggered
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13:57<@Terkhen>toyland? some newgrf?
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13:59<Leander_>I don't think it's toyland, I checked all the wav files from opensfx
14:01<Leander_>so any newgrf that I download can add sound effects?
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14:03<@Terkhen>well, I don't know what you are using
14:05<Leander_>I have 8/32bpp trains 2cc, FIRS 1.3, Original vehicles cargo set, Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set, Vacuum Vehicle Wagon, eGRVTS 2.0
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14:11<@Terkhen>neither of those looks as if it should be doing weird noises, I guess you will have to enable them separately to find which one is causing trouble
14:13<Leander_>is there any tool to open a grf file and see what is inside?
14:14<@Terkhen>you can find the source of most of those NewGRFs in their project pages
14:16<Leander_>ok thanks, I'll try to find out where that comes from
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14:19<Leander_>okay, I just realised, it's every time I start a tramway
14:19<Leander_>I usually do that in pause mode, and the effect only plays when I unpause the game
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14:24<V453000>can someone explain to me what justifies the 40/10? it _should_ be 35/10 :0
14:25<V453000> I am doing this
14:25<V453000>9 articulated parts, the template automatically assigns offsets from the "part" parameter
14:26<V453000>and since they are related from part 5 - the center, I am WTF why does part 1 decrease by 3,5, and part 9 by 4
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14:31<frosch123>V453000: what would justify 35/10 ?
14:31<frosch123>and odd number divided by 10 is defintely weird
14:32<Samu>there may be a bug with magic bulldozer for the changes I am doing
14:33<Samu>if the industry dies of natural death, then it's working fine
14:34<Samu>if it was magic bulldozed, then... :(
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i don't understand what you're doing. each length unit is 4px*zoom in – direction, 2px/1px*zoom in / \ directions, and 2px in | direction
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>and 35/10 = 3
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>not 3.5
14:36<Samu>nevermind, there is no bug
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>nml does integer maths, unless you force it
14:37<Samu>magic bulldozer worked fine
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14:38<Wolf01>hello o/
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14:51<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: I am making that difference, and putting it to the cut parts individually
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14:51<V453000>but even if 35/10 is 3, then the 40/10 is clearly 4
14:52<V453000>which means part 1 and part 9 are different, but they draw correctly - despite theri distance from central part 5 is the same
14:53<V453000>the p-5 does that, if part is 5, offset is relative 0
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15:44<Pikkaphone>wot wot
15:45<Samu>impossible to know
15:45<Samu>I have a dilema
15:45<roidal_>is there something like a standard-AI?
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>and you fare better if you have many different AIs
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>multiple of the same AIs tend to get in each others way, because they think too much alike
15:47<roidal_>gibts eine die empfehlenswert ist?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know that...
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>i never play with AIs
15:48<Samu>my dilema: when loading an old save game where oil rigs were built on canals, it is impossible to know who were their owners. When trying to convert that bit, I have no idea what to set it like
15:48<Samu>with examples
15:48<Samu>might be clearer
15:48<Samu>so i load an old save game with oil rigs built on canals
15:48<Samu>since the old behaviour is to set that bit 4 to 0
15:49<Samu>i have no idea now how to convert to the new behaviour
15:49<Samu>canals can have various owners
15:49<Samu>if neutral, then bit 4 is 1
15:53<Samu>if it's someone canal, then bit 4 is 0
15:53<Samu>but since the old behaviour was always turning it to 0, how could I guess now who owned it?
15:53<Samu>I could assume it as neutral
15:53<Samu>it's not entirely correct, but once oil rig bankrupts
15:53<Samu>the canal belongs to OWNER_NONE
15:54<roidal_>can AI-scripts cheat?
15:55<Samu>ok, so neutral it is
15:56<Samu>it looks I don't have to pump up a savegame version
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>roidal_: no, AI can do exactly what a player can do
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15:58<Pikka>no AI can do exactly what a player can do? :)
15:58<Samu>a player can cheat
15:58<Pikka>or perhaps NoAI can do exactly what a player can do
15:58<Samu>therefore the AI can cheat
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15:58<Pikka>a player can't cheat in multiplayer
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15:59<Samu>what if singleplayer?
15:59<Pikka>AI cannot play singleplayer :)
16:01<Samu>yes it can
16:01<Pikka>AI can do what a "player" can do, not what "someone who plays OpenTTD" can do.
16:01<Pikka>AI cannot drink coffee
16:01<Samu>start new game is single player
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: depends on what you mean with "can"
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16:01<Samu>there can be ais in single player game
16:02<Pikka>I guess I should buy train fever while it's on special, for research porpoises...
16:02<Samu>i was wondering if AIs could cheat when the game was started as single player
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16:07<Pikka>perhaps they should be able to
16:11<roidal_>another question
16:12<roidal_>what value shows "money" in the output of the "companies" command?
16:12<roidal_>it differs from my actual money. is this because of different unit?
16:12<roidal_>(€, $ etc)
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16:13<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: so what would be the point of that?
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the AI switches company into yours, removes your stuff, and switches back?
16:14<frosch123>roidal_: internal money unit is £
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16:20<roidal_>thanks again!
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16:52<Samu>need help a bit
16:52<Samu>if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY && water class of this tile is not canal) {
16:52<Samu>help me translate that part lol
16:54<Samu>if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY && (WaterClass(t) !=WATER_CLASS_CANAL) { ?
16:55<+glx>something like that yes
16:57<@Terkhen>good night
17:03<Samu>if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && HasTileWaterClass(t, WATER_CLASS_CANAL) {
17:03<Samu>doesn't work
17:03<Wolf01>at least try to close the same number of the parenthesis you opened
17:04<+glx>and this test is for industries on canal
17:04<Samu> if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && HasTileWaterClass(!WATER_CLASS_CANAL)) {
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17:09<Samu> if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && !HasTileWaterClass(WATER_CLASS_CANAL)) {
17:09<Samu>doesn't work
17:10<+glx>missing args probably
17:11<Wolf01>doesn't VS help a little with intellisense and syntax errors highlight?
17:11<+glx>intellisense helps a lot
17:12<+glx>and error messages too
17:17<Wolf01>maybe it's because I'm too used to PHPStorm where you use smart autocomplete and the code writes itself
17:17<Samu>it runs but not doing the correct thing
17:17<Wolf01>ok, that's better
17:17<Wolf01>and: what are you trying to achieve?
17:17<Samu>when loading a savegame below version 195, all industry tiles that are not canals, SB(_m[t].m1, 4, 1, 1);
17:17<Samu>for industries that are canals I want it to do nothing
17:17<Samu>built on canals would be the correct wording
17:17<Wolf01>then it could be the the HasTileWaterClass() function which might want you to pass it the "tile" t
17:17<Wolf01>makes sense
17:17<Samu>how would it act according to which class is it
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17:19<Samu>hmm let me try
17:19<Samu>if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && !HasTileWaterClass(t)) {
17:20<+glx>should be true for industries on dry land
17:20<+glx>hmm no always true
17:21<+glx>industry tiles always have waterclass
17:21<Samu>nothing is happening
17:22<+glx>the test is always false for industry tiles (true && !true)
17:22<Wolf01>ok, but why do industry tiles are water class?
17:22<+glx>because oilrigs
17:23<Samu>nothing happens at all
17:23<+glx>yes your test is always false
17:23<Wolf01>I had a weird dream... industries flooding the map
17:24<Samu>if waterclass is sea, pass the test
17:25<+glx>I think you don't understant what HasTileWaterClass() does
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17:52<Samu>assertion again
17:53<Wolf01>I'm not so good at cluedo :(
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>i probably haven't played that in 20 years...
18:01<Samu>Error! Disconnecting train
18:01<Samu>what's that
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>means you screwed up royally
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: that means an engine moved, but couldn't drag its wagons with it
18:03<Samu>i was messing with waterclasses not trains
18:03<Samu>waterclasses and industries
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you changed something that was required for something entirely different
18:03<Samu>how do I get the waterclass from an industry tile?
18:04<+glx>try GetWaterClass()
18:04<Wolf01>we should get rid of that error with new disasters and shunting
18:04<Samu>i tried that
18:05<Samu>i get assertion failed
18:05<Wolf01>eh, but GetWaterClass() doesn't like when you pass it a non water tile :D
18:05<+glx>industry tiles are valid for that
18:05<Wolf01>maybe he doesn't loop only industry tiles
18:06<Samu>GetWaterClass(t); if (!IsCanal(t)) {}
18:06<+glx>IsCanal() works for MP_WATER tiles only
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18:08<Samu>it's an industry tile
18:08<+glx>then you can't use IsCanal()
18:09<+glx>but you can use GetWaterClass(t) != WATER_CLASS_CANAL
18:10<Samu>there is no way to extract the water class of an industry tile?
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18:10<Samu> if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && (GetWaterClass(t) != WATER_CLASS_CANAL {
18:13<Wolf01>you miss ))
18:13<Samu>oh, if (IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) && (GetWaterClass(t) != WATER_CLASS_CANAL)) {
18:13<Samu>zomg so that's how you do it
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18:19<Samu>omg yes, testing it, works
18:19<Samu>just not sure if it's the right assumption
18:19<Samu>0 or 1
18:19<Samu>no way to tell
18:19<Samu>what is more likely to find? canals with no owner or canals owned by someone?
18:19<Samu>canals with no owner = 1, canals owned by someone = 0
18:20<Samu>but, what's more likely
18:20<Samu>any idea?
18:20<Samu>pre-patch always puts a 0, when oil rig dies in pre-patch, it puts a 1
18:22<Samu>post-patch can be 1 or 0, when oil rig dies in post-patch, it puts a 1
18:22<+glx>it doesn't put a 1, it sets the owner to one of the >0x10 one
18:22<Samu>loading pre-patch savegame, loads it as 0, then conversion takes place, but i's impossible to know what to convert to
18:24<Samu>that is the OWNER_NONE
18:24<Samu>since it's canal
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18:28<Samu>i'm not sure if 0 is the "better correct" assumption
18:28<Samu>going back to landscape grid and landscape
18:28<Samu>0 seems to be the answer
18:28<Samu>or actually, not correcting it
18:28<Samu>which let's it stay as 0
18:28<Samu>meh, 0 it is
18:29<Samu>thx, for this part I'm done. now wondering if i really need to pump up savegame version
18:33<Samu>load as 194, convert, save as 194
18:33<Samu>or load as 194, convert, save as 195
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18:44<Samu>loading post-past savegame on pre-patch game
18:44<Samu>heh, will co-exist
18:44<Samu>fixed and un-fixed
18:45<Samu>and there is no problem with that apparently
18:46<Samu>alright, time to share the patch
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19:08<noah>fun game
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19:13<Samu>hmm question again
19:13<Samu>where in the afterload do I put this code?
19:14<Samu>i don't want to put it in a random place
19:16<Samu>which line do I insert this code?
19:18<Samu>afterload.cpp file
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20:23<Eddi|zuHause>usually you would add this stuff at the end of the function
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>so the conversions go in chronological order
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>you don't know which ancient version might have used that bit for other stuff
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>so you better not insert this code before that conversion was handled
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20:37<Samu>I have it like this atm:
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>that's not the end of the function
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>also, you're missing the check for the savegame version
20:44<Samu>i dont' know which savegame version it wouldn't work
20:45<Samu>i know it works for version 194
20:45<Samu>and i know i don't have to create version 195
20:46<Samu>what can I do?
20:46<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: this code will currently destroy the information in the savegames you made with the current (and future) versions
20:46<ST2>*** and the oscar goes to.... Eddi|zuHause - crowd applauds enthusiastically \o/ ***
20:47<ST2>hi :)
20:47<Samu>they can co-exist without issue
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>then you have a different understanding of "issue" or "co-exist"
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>ST2: ??
20:48<ST2>the "oscar" of helping Samu ;)
20:49<Samu>if bit 4 is 0 and is canal and industry, ignore it, stays 0
20:49<Samu>if bit 4 is 1 and is canal and industry, ignore it, stays 1
20:49<Samu>working as intended
20:50<Samu>both savegames are compatible this way
20:51<ST2>spent 2 nights trying to fix some GS issue and solution was in a ".tointeger()" - at least now I won't forget it xD
20:51<Samu>for the other non-canals, it is re-applying 1, which is also intended
20:51<Samu>if it was 0, set to 1, save, then load, if it was 1, set to 1
20:51<Samu>what matters is that it's set to 1, as intended
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: so what if a future version introduces a different water class that can have owners?
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>you then break that future version
20:52<Samu>ah, i see
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>like a deep canal for ocean-going ships
20:54<Samu>that re-applying 1 is being handled wrong
20:54<Samu>is that what you say?
20:55<Samu>or do I reall y need to bump savegame version?
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>no. i'm saying you MUST under all circumstances guard any segment of AfterLoadGame with a savegame version check.
20:56<Samu>i don't understand what's that check
20:56<+glx>a bump may not be needed but a guard in case a future bump happens is needed
20:57<+glx>conversion must be done only for older game
20:58<Samu>im confused
20:59<+glx>all afterload code is done that way
21:00<Samu>if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(188)) {
21:00<Samu>something like that?
21:00<Samu>but i don't know which version it wouldn't work :(
21:01<+glx>I guess it should be for all version before the current one
21:01<+glx>or the next one
21:02<Samu>current version is 194
21:02<Samu>if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(194)) { ?
21:03<+glx>195 if you want to convert current games too
21:03<Samu>there is no 195
21:03<Samu>i dont get it
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>that's what the future is
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's not there yet.
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>but it will (probably) come some day
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>and then you need to be prepared for it
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21:04<Samu>what would happen at then?
21:05<Samu>it will stop converting?
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>nothing, ideally.
21:05<+glx>it will still convert old saves
21:06<+glx>but new saves won't need the conversion
21:06<Samu>ah, i guess I understand
21:06<+glx>as intended
21:06<+glx>it's pure logic :)
21:07<Samu>it's a chronologic event
21:07<Samu>ok, editing
21:07<Samu>because it was already converted
21:08<Samu>i see
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21:17<Samu>return true;?
21:17<Samu>i put this before this ?
21:18<Samu>before line 2988 or after line 2988?
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>given that anything after return is ignored, you probably should put it before :p
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>imagine you're sending someone out of your office, close the door, and then tell them how to do something
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>they probably not hear you :p
21:25<ST2>unless we place next lines in CAPS, like screaming trough the door xD
21:26<ST2>** joking **
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21:35<Samu>i am tremendously slow at these simple edits
21:35<Samu>but i got it
21:37<Samu>crap, the 195 version thingy, grrr grrr! sorry
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21:46<Samu>can I go to bed now?
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 28 00:00:33 2015