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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-02

---Logopened Mon Mar 02 00:00:35 2015
00:02<supermop>Flygon: ive only lived here for a year
00:02<Flygon>O__o
00:02<Flygon>Wow
00:02<Flygon>I always thought, like
00:02<Flygon>You lived here for over 20 years O_O
00:02<Flygon>You've got very Australian mannerisms!
00:03<supermop>ha
00:08<Taco>u wot m8
00:09<Flygon>gt rekt
00:10<Flygon>...
00:10<Flygon>Taco
00:10<Flygon>I
00:10<Taco>u cheeky c***
00:10<Flygon>Love
00:10<Flygon>Your given real name
00:10<Flygon>:B
00:11<Taco>thmx
00:11<Taco>I thought it'd be funny if Tony Abbott was just a lonely guy on IRC that nobody likes
00:12<Flygon>I doubt Tony Abbott even knows what IRC is
00:12<Flygon>Or a computer, for that matter
00:12<Flygon>"Ehh, they probably run off magic or something"
00:13<Taco>nah magnets
00:13<Flygon>...
00:14<Flygon>You're technically correct
00:14<Flygon>The best kind of correct
00:14<Taco>No really I am Tony Abbott. I'm just here doing a study on public transportation
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00:14<Flygon>Ehh
00:14<Pikkaphone2>rung rung
00:14<Flygon>If you reeaaaalllly wanted to study public transport, Mister Abbott
00:14<Flygon>You'd sit on the railway tracks
00:14<Flygon>B3
00:15<Taco>I think the state of NSW needs to invest in NewGRFs
00:15<Flygon>Noooo
00:15<Flygon>NSW has the best DDs on Earth
00:15<Flygon>D:
00:15<Taco>Yea but they're slow
00:15<Flygon>130km/h max speed isn't that slow
00:16<Flygon>And I'm willing to bet, with a few adjustments
00:16<Flygon>The Waratahs could do a reliable 160km/h
00:16<Taco>uhh they reach max speed about 2% of their time spent moving
00:16<Taco>Most the network they're speed limited
00:16<Flygon>That's a problem with stopping patterns and track condition
00:16<Flygon>V/Line here has the same problem
00:16<Flygon>The VLocities can hit 160km/h
00:17<Flygon>But they stop too frequently
00:17<Taco>Gradient, bends, maintenance
00:17<Flygon>As in, literally
00:17<Flygon>They accelerate as fast as possible
00:17<Flygon>Hit 160km/h
00:17<Flygon>Then cue brakes to stop at next station
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01:25<chillcore>Most likely the stupidest question you'll read all day.
01:26<chillcore>As far as numbers go, do I need to take into account RTL languages?
01:26<chillcore>^^^ sliders
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01:31<chillcore>nvm found the answer in music gui ... I do need to do that
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02:47<Celestar>gooood morning
02:51<chillcore>o/
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03:34<V453000>hmmmmmmmmmmm
03:34<V453000>1 train to be 1 tile is still too small XD
03:34<V453000>I guess obscenely Oversized allows me to go further? XD
03:35<supermop>hmm
03:35<supermop>i tile long train or train car?
03:36<V453000>-unit- :)
03:36<V453000>in the testing case it is a steamer with tender
03:37<chillcore>hmm @ glitchy tunnel entrances
03:37<V453000>nope
03:37<V453000>I got that solved, the vehicle is made of 9 articulated parts per tile
03:39<chillcore>ok ;)
03:40<V453000>hm.
03:40<V453000>2 tiles is too much and one is not enough
03:41<V453000>what do :D
03:41<V453000>1,5 would be nice but that is just functionally shit
03:41<V453000>,5 tile wagons would work I Guess
03:41<V453000>hm no want them longer
03:44<chillcore>how does that look in corners and leaving a slope?
03:46<V453000>different, but horrible I would say
03:46<V453000>not hnorrible*
03:50<chillcore>BaNaNaS are go :P
03:50<V453000>dont even have the first train model finished :P
03:51<V453000>150% fattened, but hm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/turningStuf.png
03:55<V453000>without fattening https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/turningStuf2.png
03:59<chillcore>slopes is not too shabby but corners do look kinda weird with half wheels
03:59<chillcore>maybe it is less noticable while things are moving
04:01<V453000>yeah
04:01<V453000>and when they move, it all is a lot smoother
04:01<V453000>you basically never see the overlapping wagons, flipping at corners
04:02<chillcore>also the bottom horizontal track ... there is a part floating in fornt and after the complete (not bended) engine
04:02<chillcore>then again you're not done yet ;)
04:02<V453000>yes that is some bug
04:02<V453000>I think I just tried to fix the thing and revert the fix, and it fixed it ? :D
04:02<V453000>but ok
04:03<V453000>oh I know what the issue is
04:03<V453000>hax XD
04:03<V453000>hm
04:05<chillcore>the complete engine does look nice though
04:05<argoneus>helo train friends
04:05<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pl1ufl0md this makes sense doesnt it
04:05<argoneus>how is everyone doing on this fine monday morning
04:05<argoneus>(there is no such thing)
04:05<V453000>the engine will look a lot better in the future :P
04:05<V453000>that is a visual switch for the articulated parts to get their relevant sprites
04:06<V453000>I think the bug happens because this switch does something wrongly and the gap happens at some offset position
04:07<V453000>oh XD
04:07<V453000>it might just be the train end
04:08<V453000>btw the train is going 160kmh through 1 tile curves without tilt XD on rail.
04:08<V453000>power of articulated units :D
04:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r27176 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.h (2015-03-02 09:10:16 UTC)
04:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Compilation with MinGW64 (Eddy Arfik)
04:10<chillcore>hehe not sure where I would want to sit ... do I get a discount for draft? :P
04:11*chillcore takes a breaksie ... afk
04:19<V453000>ok so I got one small problem
04:19<V453000>the ultra articulated vehicles travel 230kmh through the shortest rail curves
04:19<V453000>XD
04:19<V453000>without tilt
04:20<V453000>means 460 on maglev
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04:37<V453000>whic his just retarded :(
04:41<@planetmaker>well... you force that by making it so small vehicles :)
04:42<@planetmaker>breaking down a single vehicle in several articulated ones is ultimately a hack to this end :)
04:43<argoneus>I just realized
04:43<argoneus>that planetmaker implies you make planets
04:43<argoneus>took me a while
04:44<V453000>yeah pm I think I will limit myself to 4/8 as smallest
04:44<V453000>AND make everything x2 XD
04:45<V453000>meaning that the whole consist will be 2 tiles
04:45<@planetmaker>argoneus, yeah. And it's not even a joke ;)
04:46<V453000>the 9-piece trains look interesting, the hills are funny but curves look soooo smooth
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04:46<argoneus>planetmaker: how many planets have you made today
04:46<V453000>lets see how far will it get with 4/8
04:46<@planetmaker>and slartibartfast was already taken (and more difficult to pronounce :P )
04:46<@planetmaker>10^-10 planets today
04:47<argoneus>how do you make a fraction of a planet
04:47<@planetmaker>how do you build a part of a house?
04:47<^Spike^>that's not alot if it really is -10
04:47<argoneus>I don't
04:47<argoneus>:P
04:47<^Spike^>in this case it sounds like erasing planets? :)
04:47<^Spike^>or wait
04:47<@planetmaker>10**(-10) ;) ?
04:48<^Spike^>yeah monday...
04:48<@planetmaker>it's positive :P
04:48<^Spike^>i just woke up
04:48<^Spike^>sort of :)
04:48<^Spike^>0.0000000001 :)
04:48<@planetmaker>good morning :P
04:48<^Spike^>math hard on monday :D
04:49<@planetmaker>and actually 10^-10 of Earth is a giant amount...
04:49<Celestar>yah :D
04:49<^Spike^>:)
04:49<@planetmaker>I should have said something like 10^-25 or so :P
04:49<argoneus>earth is tiny though
04:49<argoneus>like, really tiny
04:49<@planetmaker>not really
04:49<Celestar>Earth is about ... 1e27kg, right?
04:49<argoneus>it's pretty small
04:49<@planetmaker>10000 bigger and it's not a planet anymore
04:49<@planetmaker>Celestar, that's jupiter ;)
04:50<Celestar>oh right.
04:50<Celestar>IIRC the Solar System/The Sun is about 1e30kg
04:50<@planetmaker>1 sun = 1000 jupiter; 1 jupiter = 1000 Earths
04:50<argoneus>what is 1e30 again, I'm not an engineer
04:50<@planetmaker>by orders or magnitude
04:50<argoneus>10 * 10^30?
04:50<argoneus>or just 10^30
04:50<@planetmaker>^ that
04:51<argoneus>so it's
04:51<argoneus>10 * 10^29
04:52<Celestar>or 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 *
04:52<Celestar>:P
04:52<@planetmaker>:P
04:52<argoneus>:P
04:56<^Spike^>@calc 10^30
04:56<@DorpsGek>^Spike^: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
04:56<^Spike^>damn :)
04:56<@peter1138>argoneus, not 1 * 10^30?
04:56<^Spike^>@calc 10**(30)
04:56<@DorpsGek>^Spike^: 1000000000000000019884624838656
04:56<@peter1138>Which would seem logical, unlike that result :p
04:56<Celestar>rofl
04:56<^Spike^>:)
04:56<argoneus>did it reach a ceiling
04:56<Celestar>nope
04:56<Celestar>double-precision floating point
04:57<@peter1138>Is that double or single?
04:57<argoneus>t-thanks C
04:57<Celestar>should be double
04:57<@peter1138>Oh yes, must be double.
04:57<Celestar>you have a 52 bit mantissa.
04:57<Celestar>erm
04:57<Celestar>53.
04:58<Celestar>@calc 2**(-53)
04:58<@DorpsGek>Celestar: 0
04:58<Celestar>see?
04:58<Celestar>:P
04:58<argoneus>oh yes, mantisa
04:58<argoneus>there was a time when I understood how this worked
04:58<argoneus>today is not that time
04:58<Celestar>@calc 2**(-51)
04:58<@DorpsGek>Celestar: 0
04:58<Celestar>bah
04:58<Celestar>that should be 0 for you :P
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-19)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 1.90734863281e-06
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-50)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 0
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-40)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 0
04:59<argoneus>w/e
04:59<Celestar>might be single :P
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-31)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 4.65661287308e-10
04:59<@peter1138>csharp> c = (float)Math.Pow(10, 30); c;
04:59<@peter1138>1E+30
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-32)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 2.32830643654e-10
04:59<@peter1138>Bah :p
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-33)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 1.16415321827e-10
04:59<argoneus>@calc 2**(-34)
04:59<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 0
04:59<argoneus>eh
04:59<argoneus>what does this mean
05:01<@peter1138>Don't trust computers.
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06:57<chillcore>now I've got a slider that does not slide and clicking on it does the exact opposite of what it should do ... fun fun :P
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07:56<DanMacK>Hey all
07:57<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
07:57<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <andythenorth> Pokka o/
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08:52<V453000>now that is some scale I am talking about XD https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/choochooXD.png
08:53<V453000>of course with glitches like mad
08:55<@peter1138>Crappy corners...
08:56<V453000>it looks kind of okay when moving
08:56<@peter1138>I mean the track.
08:56<V453000>.. :)
08:57<@peter1138>Although now you mention it...
08:57<@peter1138>So basically it's all the wrong scale, oh wel.
08:57<@peter1138>+l
08:57<V453000>"wrong scale"
08:58<@peter1138>"right scale" is matching TTD graphics.
08:58<V453000>ok
09:00<V453000>admittedly testing it on a gigantic monitor isnt helping XD
09:00<V453000>it felt smaller :)
09:02<@planetmaker>the engine... I wonder how it fit into the tunnel
09:02<@planetmaker>the ones going to lower left
09:02<@planetmaker>and probably peter is right... it could all be slightly smaller :)
09:03<@planetmaker>to scale in all 3 dimensions
09:03<@planetmaker>thus the size impression wouldn't change
09:03<V453000>yeah I am still playing around with it
09:04<V453000>I just doubled the thing I showed earlied :D
09:04<V453000>will still be oversized though :>
09:05<@planetmaker>it's one thing to oversize things in length. but height and width... not so good. Especially as there's little reason for that
09:05<supermop>i feel that width is the dimension I'd most want to change
09:06<V453000>I got 2 tile length already :)
09:07<supermop>but I feel if you want to go down this road you need to sort of change playing style as well, and not build any height 1 bridges
09:07<supermop>which already look odd in 4x zoom
09:07<V453000>XD
09:08<V453000>tunnels do the same not just bridges :)
09:08<supermop>And as for Tunnels, use a new object or waypoint that fakes a double height tunnel portal
09:08<supermop>placed in front of tunnel
09:10<supermop>locomotion was more of this scale - with the loading gauge being almost a full tile, and it enforced two height-levels for tunnel and bridge clearance
09:10<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/DOOM/choochoo2.png this kind of works
09:10<V453000>150% width and height from previous
09:11<V453000>wheels stayed XD
09:12<@peter1138>Maybe I should get into model railways again./
09:12<@peter1138>Wouldn't have to worry about that not fitting crap.
09:13<b_jonas>supermop: yes, but that works in locomotion becaues it allows vertical slopes
09:13<V453000>peter1138: ? :D
09:13<b_jonas>you can't really have a two high tunnel in ottd because you can't have high slopes in first place
09:13<@peter1138>T gauge to fit the most in?
09:14<supermop>tunnel is not really a function of slopes or not - locomotion have instead had a TT style portal that spreat over two tiles in stead
09:15<supermop>i wanted a t gauge layout inside a vitsoe cabinet back when i lived in manhattan
09:15<supermop>*locomotion could have had
09:22<supermop>gah i can barely type anymore
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09:28<George>Hi
09:29<George>MIN_COMPATIBLE_REVISION related question
09:29<George>Should it always be a number, or can it be a "0.3" text?
09:32<@planetmaker>it cannot be anything other than a number. Same as the version
09:32<@planetmaker>they must be directly comparable
09:32<@planetmaker>0.3 or whatever is just what you call the version so that humans have it easier to stick a name to it
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09:36<V453000>where is the gui zoom setting?
09:36<V453000>and is it in 1.5.0-beta2M
09:36<V453000>?
09:36<V453000>-M :)
09:36<@planetmaker>it is. In game options, I think
09:36<@peter1138>Game options is still there?
09:37<V453000>yeah there :D
09:38<V453000>and it looks ridiculously ugly
09:39<@peter1138>Someone™ was going to remove it.
09:41<George>planetmaker: unfortunately, a build number, provided by the build factory does not match the revision.
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10:08<@planetmaker>George, the newgrf version by the CF is the number of days since 1.1.2000
10:08<@planetmaker>of that respective commit which you build (the commit date is recorded after all)
10:09<George>planetmaker: Yes, I remeber the reason
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10:39<argoneus>because unix time is for nerds
10:40<@planetmaker>yes... mostly it's insanely high numbers then ;)
10:42<@planetmaker>1424646405.00 is a bit high :)
10:45<@planetmaker>version=$[ ( ${hg log -r. --template='{date|hgdate}' | cut -d\ -f1} - $(date --date='1 Jan 2000' + '%s') ) / 86400 ]
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10:54<DanMacK>supermop... You've used T Gauge?
10:59<@planetmaker>hm... DanMacK if you don't miss andy, tell him that http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml/repository/revisions/6e86c18c25b9/diff/findversion.sh might be interesting for his projects, too. No explicit python2 dep then anymore.
11:01<DanMacK>Will do if I remember :P
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11:43<@Terkhen>hello
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12:08<V453000>hi frog :)
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12:18<@Alberth>evenink
12:18<V453000>hy
12:24<frosch123>hai kids :)
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12:28<V453000>so I had an idea
12:28<V453000>I want to make train power/TE decay over time when not servicing
12:28<V453000>e.g. after a year a train is not serviced, its performance starts decreasin
12:28<V453000>g
12:28<V453000>like improved "breakdowns"
12:28<V453000>1. how retarded is it to do on newgrf level?
12:28<V453000>2. how much cpu could that ta ke?
12:29<frosch123>3. how often will it desync
12:30<frosch123>3. pretty much on every join
12:30<V453000>XD
12:30<V453000>really?
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12:33<roidal>are there plans to make biger graphics for high resolution screens?
12:34<V453000>frosch123: is there any reasonable way to do it then?
12:35<frosch123>basically, you cannot affect anything that is cached while driving
12:36<frosch123>you could reduce the loading speed otoh :p that is not cached
12:36<V453000>so it could only trigger like, at stations and depots
12:39<V453000>so could it count time, and change the power in station according to time counted?
12:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27177 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2015-03-02 17:46:37 UTC)
12:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 3 changes by juanjo
12:46<@DorpsGek>dutch - 4 changes by habell
12:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
12:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 10 changes by juanjo
12:46<@DorpsGek>tamil - 7 changes by ganesh
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12:50<frosch123>V453000: whatever you do, it will favor servicing just before entering the station
12:50<V453000>that doesnt matter
12:51<V453000>before or after is fine
12:51<V453000>that is the point
12:51<V453000>to favor servicing
12:51<V453000>to make depots matter
12:51<V453000>the current breakdown mechanism is just useless
12:51<V453000>but something like this would be nice
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12:53<frosch123>load_amount, running_cost_factor and visuals (train and smoke image) are the things you can change during driving
12:54<frosch123>to change things in stations you could try messing with random bits
12:54<frosch123>i.e. you can abuse the random bits to store data in the vehicle
12:54<frosch123>but you can not "reliablty" write it
12:54<frosch123>you could still make a vehicle less likely to be powerful, if unserviced
12:54<V453000>right
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13:03<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> basically, you cannot affect anything that is cached while driving <-- that only means the cache must be saved
13:03<frosch123>nope
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13:03<frosch123>the "desync" is only the first thing you notice
13:04<frosch123>the actual problem is that the caches are not updated
13:04<frosch123>so, you would not only have to save the caches, but you would also have to invalidate them every n days
13:04<frosch123>which then completely defeats the point of a cache
13:04<frosch123>and V can play with 10 trains :)
13:05<frosch123>you would need some clever way to indicate when to invalidate which caches
13:07<V453000>clever is out of the question when it comes to me and coding
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13:07<frosch123>well, multiple grf authors made grfs with stuff depending on time
13:07<frosch123>it was always the desync that was reported, noone noticed that the time-dependency did not work at all
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13:08<frosch123>but likely the changes that the grf made were irrelevant for gameplay anyway
13:10<V453000>wouldnt expect any other XD
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, it doesn't really matter if the cache is not updated always, as long as it is updated frequently enough
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>and cache updates happen more often with railtypes
13:11<frosch123>rule number 1: grf authors are stupid
13:11<V453000>:D
13:12<frosch123>if you cannot make a vehicle reduce maxspeed on downhill because the driver is scared, then it's a bug
13:12<frosch123>so, to please every grf you would have to invalidate all caches every tick
13:13<frosch123>for a realistic simulation of a train gear, it is important to know that the piston gives most power when at angle 30° to 60°, and none at 0° or 180°
13:13<V453000>xd
13:13<frosch123>you cannot emulate that with a newgrf, unless you compute power every tick
13:15<V453000>features or riot! :D
13:17<V453000>btw I have decided 2 tile long engine is a good feature :P
13:17<frosch123>i saw you snake screenshots :p
13:17<frosch123>+r
13:17<V453000>:)
13:18<V453000>I will reduce the size a little bit visually, to prevent glitches
13:18<V453000>but yeah, more or less :)
13:18<V453000>I also tried vehicles consisting of 2/8 parts, but the curve speed was just retarded XD
13:18<V453000>4/8 has to do
13:19<frosch123>you should make an actual snake train, that moves by snaking
13:19<frosch123>the 1/8 parts are ideal to make the train move sideways on the track
13:20<V453000>xd
13:20<V453000>yeah I guess that is doable
13:21*V453000 does serious realism now though
13:21<V453000>starting with mammoth scale XD
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13:52<chillcore>going to bump the title savegame thread in a bit ... how do we vote this round? 1 single vote or three in order of preference?
13:56<chillcore>hmm asked to soon ... 1 it is.
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14:00<V453000>I gave one vote XD
14:00<V453000>but some dudes vote for 3
14:00<Wolf01>hello o/
14:00<V453000>idk even
14:00<V453000>hy
14:02<@Alberth>vote 3 times for the same one :p
14:02<V453000>nice my favourite made it to finals XD
14:03<V453000>that is a first
14:03<chillcore>hello wolf o/
14:04<chillcore>planetmaker did not mention it in the topic but if you click through in his last post it is mentioned there ... "this round 1 vote"
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14:24<andythenorth>o/
14:24<@Alberth>o/
14:24<andythenorth>does anyone understand the Iron Horse / Termite issue? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1143690#p1143690
14:24<andythenorth>I don’t understand railtypes, so I don’t know what the issue is
14:26<V453000>andy why do you even consider baldys boss and things he says? :D
14:27<andythenorth>because it’s some kind of bug report?
14:27<V453000>yeah but with him saying "I havent even played with it" sounds like the bug report has some holes XD
14:28<andythenorth>well, yes, but even so
14:28<V453000>really? :D
14:29<andythenorth>what can it overwrite?
14:29<andythenorth>I really know nothing about railtypes
14:29<andythenorth>it’s at least a bug in the set description
14:30<V453000>railtype can overwrite pretty much anything you want it to I guess :d
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14:42<chillcore>andy: "Please report back after trying as I am not willing to chase ghost. Thx for understanding." ;)
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14:49<V453000>what chillcore says
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14:51<andythenorth>ho
14:51<andythenorth>maybe :)
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15:31<chillcore>this is funny ... when I open the last page of the F1 topic on the forums something is downloaded from youtube ... 4.73KB ... yay for google spyware
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17:47<@Terkhen>good night
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18:06<Wolf01>'night
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18:09<chillcore>good night all
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19:38<supermop>yo
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21:03<Pikkaphone2>Yikes
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21:10<Eddi|zuHause>if the pikkaphone rings twice
21:21<supermop>ha
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23:34<openbu>Hi, I want to develop the openttd.
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