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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-03

---Logopened Tue Mar 03 00:00:37 2015
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00:43<supermop>so the fake trams are more or less done now, before diving into the real trams i feel like drawingg buildings again or perhaps stations
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03:40<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: so, when can we expect openttd to be ported to unreal engine? :P
03:46<@planetmaker>openbu, I suggest to dive right into it :) There's either quite a number of bugs which need addressing: or there's a non-comprehensive list of things which are nice-to-have:
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05:22<openbu>@planetmaker thanks
05:24<@planetmaker>openbu, European evening hours is also an excellent time here on IRC
05:36<openbu>oh,Nice to meet you ,I come from china,I'm going to devote a lot of time to improve openttd &
05:37<openbu>I'm reading
05:42<@peter1138>Download Speed: 2.91 Mbps
05:42<@peter1138>Upload Speed: 440 kbps
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07:32<supermop>at 4x zoom, a slope is 32 px high?
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07:32<V453000>I dont even know :)
07:33<V453000>is what I use
07:33<V453000>probably not flawless, but pretty good
07:33<V453000>juzza1 did those
07:33<supermop>when modelling it i need t make it a function of the diagonal across the tile though, whatever it is
07:34<V453000>diagonal across the tile?
07:34<supermop>trying to through tram tracks together quickly as these big 32bpp trams look odd on the ogfx track
07:34<supermop>diagonal as in _
07:35<supermop>_ is an integer number of pixels, whereas / and \ only sort of are
07:35<supermop>the slope height is presumably also an integer
07:36<@planetmaker>hi Odd
07:36<supermop>so if my tiles are 12 m or whatever a side, i can't just say they are 3m or whatever high
07:37<Odd>nice work on snowy industries, planetmaker!
07:37<V453000>I dont think I understand what do you want supermop :d
07:37<supermop>also, it needs to be a length that when seen from the dimetric perspective appears to be whatever the correct size is
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07:38<supermop>basically i am saying, i cant just know how tall to model a slope in a 3d program
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07:38<V453000>I can tell you that height? :D
07:38<supermop>you need to work backward from what it should look like in the sprite to figure out the height
07:39<V453000>kind of
07:39<supermop>as something that is x units tall appears less than x units tall in dimetric
07:39<V453000>on 10x10m for one tile, I have 2,04155 height
07:39<supermop>should be an irrational number
07:40<V453000>ok those are quite close :)
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07:41<V453000>but yeah, thats it
07:41<V453000>tunnel entrances are taller because openttd hax
07:41<V453000>bridge pillars have that height
07:41<V453000>@calc 2,04192*1,2
07:41<@DorpsGek>V453000: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
07:42<supermop>try . instead of ,?
07:42<V453000>calc aside :P
07:42<V453000>so yeah, this is what you need?
07:42<supermop>not quite
07:42<V453000>what then :D
07:42<supermop>mostly i want to know how many pixels ottd wants
07:43<supermop>i recall it was 8 in 1x
07:43<V453000>that is in the tile masks I linked earlier
07:43<supermop>just want to be sure
07:43<V453000>8 sounds low even for x1
07:44<V453000>something like 24 in x1 looks more like it to me
07:44<V453000>eh actually
07:44<supermop>if so its easy i just draw a line normal to the angle of view that is 1/8 of a tile diagonal and i can scale that set of lines for each tile size i use
07:44<supermop>pretty sure its between 7 and 10
07:44<V453000>yeah looks like 8
07:45<supermop>really i should have typed extra Us there not Ls noe Ss
07:45<V453000>idk I just went with trying stuff
07:45<V453000>I dont even know how I got that value
07:46<V453000>I think I created an angle taken from zbase
07:49<supermop>quick geometric construction in rhino i get 1836.12 mm for a 12m tile
07:49<supermop>prettttty short clearance
07:50<V453000>that sounds considerably different from 2.45 to me XD but ok if it works
07:50<supermop>oh wait projected from wrong side of line
07:52<supermop>now i get 2449.49
07:52<V453000>that sounds a lot better :)
07:52<supermop>i think rhino is cutting it off at .00
07:52<V453000>sure max also only uses .xxx
07:52<V453000>but I use cm so I wrote it to meters :)
07:52<supermop>still a short clearance
07:53<supermop>yeah i just have my tolerances set to 1.00 mm
07:53<supermop>which is really too specific for ottd anyway
07:53<supermop>would not use that in construction
07:55<V453000>eh if you set your tile to be 1mm then it would make sense, it is totally relative :)
07:59<juzza1> is the ratio of full-length tile height to tile length, in ottd scale
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08:00<DanMacK>Hey all
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08:21<supermop>a bit late there
08:21<Oddingar>is there no other servers than those listed in the multiplayer menu?
08:22<@planetmaker>Oddingar, yes. But those are the servers which chose not to be announced
08:22<FLHerne>Oddingar: You can host a server without listing it, but all the ones actually intended to be public will be
08:24<Oddingar>ah, do you know if there is any servers that's not listed that are possible to join? might that be by being member of a forum or such?
08:25<FLHerne>Oddingar: Why? openttd coop non-public, anything hosted for groups of friends
08:25<FLHerne>Oddingar: The reddit ones are usually quite active, but they're public
08:25<V453000>openttdcoop is completely possible to join.
08:28<Oddingar>hm, i might be doing something wrong, there's only 4 servers online according to the list, one password protected, and the others are pretty occupied
08:28<Oddingar>oh wait, might be because of version mismatch?
08:29<FLHerne>Oddingar: Mismatched versions will still show
08:29<@planetmaker>FLHerne, openttdcoop has no non-public servers
08:29<FLHerne>But definitely more than 4 servers
08:30<FLHerne>planetmaker, V453000: Ok, I'm mistaken :-)
08:30<@planetmaker>Oddingar, there's *a few* more:
08:30<@planetmaker>Oddingar, but you need to run the appropriate (thus identical) version of OpenTTD in order to join them.
08:31<FLHerne>Oddingar: Hit the 'Find Server' button, if you haven't
08:31<@planetmaker>yup, good idea :)
08:31<Oddingar>aye I did hit find server, and it lists about 30 or 40 servers or so
08:31<Oddingar>but only four of them are online
08:32<Oddingar>could be wrong version
08:32<Oddingar>i'm using
08:32<@planetmaker>eh... well, any version should list all servers... thus roughly 300 currently
08:32<FLHerne>Servers with an incompatible version will be listed, just with a red dot rather than green
08:32<@planetmaker>but it may take time till the server list is populated
08:33<FLHerne>What do you mean by 'only four of them are online'?
08:33<@planetmaker>thus after you hit 'find servers' the servers are actually queried... which is a bit traffic in the background
08:33<@planetmaker>thus may possibly take a few seconds till your local view updates
08:33<Oddingar>well there's four servers with green dot and rest is red dot
08:34<Oddingar>but i'm running 1.5.0 beta 1, that might be the problem
08:35<FLHerne>Oddingar: Ah yes, that's the version-compatibility indicator
08:35<FLHerne>OpenTTD is multiplayer-compatible across platforms, but not versions
08:35<V453000>grab beta 2 :)
08:35<Oddingar>thank you for your help, this might be interesting!
08:36<FLHerne>Most servers are still on 1.4.4
08:36<Oddingar>not 1.4.4?
08:36<Oddingar>FIRS is supported on 1.4.4 right?
08:36<FLHerne>Oddingar: Looking at server list, almost all the active ones are 1.4.4
08:37<FLHerne>(yellow is same version but with newgrfs not downloaded)
08:38<Oddingar>I seee, I was sure it was online/offline indicator
08:38<Oddingar>man do I feel stupid
08:38<Oddingar>especially since I've been looking at this list since christmas and wondering why this awesome game has no more than 3 - 4 active servers -_-
08:40<Oddingar>look at that, it works! thanks again :P
09:05<@planetmaker>Oddingar, don't the list columns have explanations which show when you hover over thme with the mouse?
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09:36<Oddingar>they might do, planetmaker, but I'm good at assuming stuff :P
09:36<Oddingar>often with bad resault
10:18<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: when you're finished with making said port
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11:03<Celestar>gday Rubidium
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11:16<@planetmaker>advertisement: <--- vote on the titlegame of the upcoming 1.5 now, if you haven't done so :)
11:17<@Alberth>hmm, pre-condition is false for me :)
11:17<@planetmaker>yup :)
11:17<@planetmaker>vote already registered and counted
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11:44<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: that implies you actually want me anywhere near the code :P
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11:48<@planetmaker>oh, busy bee is already translated :)
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12:32<V453000>serioze 32bpp mayhem cometh? :P
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12:38<@Alberth>oh dear
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause>you proclaim it's always mayem...
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>(modulo word order)
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12:48<@Alberth>mayhem is my middle name: V "mayhem" 453000
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>what makes this sentence worse is that you have the same colour as V...
13:05<@Alberth>hello T
13:07*frosch123 always deleted the marriage annoucement/invitation of his brother as spam
13:07<frosch123>s/always/almost/ :/
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13:42<Samu>i am getting an error Error 1 error C2678: binary '&=' : no operator found which takes a left-hand operand of type 'Owner' (or there is no acceptable conversion) (..\src\depot.cpp) c:\openttd\trunk\src\core\bitmath_func.hpp 62 1 openttd
13:43<Samu>many of these
13:44<TrueBrain>YOU BROKE IT
13:44<@Terkhen>google search for C2678, you will find many explanations about that error... at first glance it sounds like you are trying to apply an operator to a class/struct/whatever that does not support it
13:44<@Terkhen>also that :P
13:44<Samu>i did this
13:46<+glx>use a byte then covert it to owner
13:47<TrueBrain>isnt OWNER_NONE the same? :D
13:47<TrueBrain>and brrr, what a dirty piece of code :s
13:48<Samu>i was a suggestion
13:48<Samu>was suggested to type that
13:48<TrueBrain>doesnt change the fact it is dirty :D
13:49<Samu>how do I use a byte glx
13:50<+glx>like an int
13:50<+glx>it's just smaller
13:50<Samu>this is what he told me
13:51<Samu>i improved it a little
13:52<Samu>or maybe broke it
13:52<+glx>SB() can't work with Owner
13:53<+glx>but I think we have a compatible type
13:53<+glx>check around Owner declaration
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14:07<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: that post is meant as a rough sketch, more like pseudocode. you're supposed to figure out the details of how it should be done correctly by yourself.
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14:42<Samu>Owner co = GetTileOwner(SB(co, 0, 2, GB(_me[t].m6, 0, 2)) | SB(co, 2, 2, GB(_me[t].m6, 6, 2)));
14:43<Samu>is that it?
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause>it would be helpful for you to learn what each of these pieces do, before combining them
14:52<+glx>yeah, coding is not like playing with lego bricks
14:52<@Alberth>nah, the internet can tell you :)
14:52<andythenorth>coding is not lego bricks? :o
14:53<andythenorth>that explains a lot of my problems :(
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, some bits of lego-piecing are equivalent to coding
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>but generally not the other way around :p
14:54<@Alberth>:o all the OO design ideas !
14:54<andythenorth>lego doesn’t encapsulate much
14:54<andythenorth>no declaring a public interface with the internals hiddens
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>lego bricks have a fairly well-designed interface
14:55<andythenorth>also nobody ‘cheats’ by having their lego bricks use the _private vars and methods of other objects
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>one side has a knob, and it goes into the other side of another brick
14:56<andythenorth>OO isn’t on a grid
14:56<andythenorth>which sometimes bothers me
14:56<andythenorth>UI design is on a grid
14:56<andythenorth>SQL kind of is a grid
14:56<andythenorth>OO less so
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you can arrange UML diagams on a grid
14:57<andythenorth>and generate all your classes from them
14:57<andythenorth>wise idea
14:57<andythenorth>“now a system analyst can specify the system, no developers needed…”
14:57<andythenorth>“…exept for integration"
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>i never quite figure out what people actually USE uml fore
14:58<andythenorth>they use it to sell tooling software
14:58<andythenorth>and get views for presentations on slideshare
14:59<andythenorth>I guess Lego has objects, and they are orientated
14:59<andythenorth>battery box...receivers…motors
14:59<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you can show them to someone to tell them that they don't understand your stuff
14:59<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: we used it for making class diagrams
14:59<andythenorth>frosch123: or that they need to use a new methodology
14:59<frosch123>if you would show them your code, they would claim in it badly written, if they do not understand it
15:00<andythenorth>you can use it to sell training courses
15:00<frosch123>it is hard to claim that a nicely shaded uml diagram is badly drawn or something :p
15:01<andythenorth>I don’t like the whitespace
15:01<frosch123>you just blame the drawing software then
15:01<Samu>wow crap, the 2nd part of the code works
15:01<andythenorth>and the class names should be Hungarian
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15:02<Samu_>2nd part worked, i just had to remove the assert line
15:02<Samu_>1st part fails
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>you don't simply walk into... err, remove asserts
15:03<@Alberth>you never remove the source of errors? :D
15:04<+michi_cc>Asserts are usually there for a reason...
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i did not say that
15:04<Samu_>i dunno what i'm doing
15:04<@Alberth>that much was clear Samu_ :)
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>that seems to be the problem, yes :p
15:05<andythenorth>if the fire alarm goes off, just disconnect it
15:05<andythenorth>problem solved
15:06<andythenorth>try: foo except: pass
15:06<andythenorth>never goes wrong
15:10<Samu_>it was writting bits at m6 correctly
15:10<Samu_>but is the assert needed?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: that's not the point
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: triggering the assert means you have a place where you try to set the canal owner without there being a canal
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>which could potentially mean that you overwrote data that another tile type stored there
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15:21<Samu_>assertion failed still :(
15:23<Samu_>think i got it
15:23<Samu_> assert(HasTileWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL);
15:24<Samu_>it boots the game
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15:26<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:33<+glx>Samu_: HasTileWaterClass() doesn't work like that
15:33<+glx>it just returns true or false
15:37<Samu_>assert(IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) || IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT));
15:37<Samu_>what about canal?
15:37<Samu_>canal as waterclass, not canal=canal
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>you're missing the point of an assert
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>the assert tells you you're using the function wrong.
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>but that means you don't need to change the assert
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>but to change where you USE the function
15:41<Wolf01>today is a bad day... broken the code, fixed the code, code the broken, fixed the broken, broken the previous fix
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>now you just have to code the break
15:43<Wolf01>better not, trust me
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>how about making a code break?
15:48<Wolf01>that's the intent, but I need to wait at least until tomorrow evening.. when the dentist will try to break my mouth, then I'll ask a break for the next 2 working days :P
15:50<Samu_>i think the assert is annoying me
15:50<Samu_>what's wrong with the fucntion
15:50<Wolf01>maybe it's not the right function to use
15:51<Samu_>let me look at road
15:52<Samu_>there is no assert line at SetRoadOwner
15:52<Samu_>I'm confused
15:53<Wolf01>then it should need an "assert(IsRoad(t))"
15:54<Wolf01>it DOES have the assert, just follow the function calls
15:57<Samu_>i dont get what that is
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: generally, whatever is in "@pre" should also be an assert
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: and also, the existing code is not always an example of how things should be done
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16:02<Wolf01>brain exploded
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>call the janitor
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16:27<Samu>oh, i have updated documentation for my "yet to exist" patch
16:27<Samu>can you revise it please?
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16:27<Samu>i used microsoft word to edit html, dunno if it break anything
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16:36<Samu>crap, word broke it
16:37<Celestar>and that surprises you?
16:37<Celestar>It's called Word for a reason.
16:37<Samu>a bit
16:37<Celestar>It works when you work on a single word.
16:37<Celestar>it's not called Microsoft Book.
16:37<Samu>it's saving as a web page, not as a single htlm
16:38<Celestar>Because Word is the worst product MS ever made :P
16:38<Celestar>It has no ... use case.
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16:39<+glx>oh it's ok to write a letter :)
16:39<Celestar>I don't think so.
16:39<Celestar>it is OK to write a letter, yes.
16:39<Celestar>but there are tools that do that better.
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16:41<Eddi|zuHause>letter as in the thing that makes up words, or letter as in the thing that you send by mail?
16:41<+glx>the mail thing
16:41<Samu>can't uplaod html to forum
16:41<Samu>i'm zipping this
16:42<Eddi|zuHause># Sie müssen erst den Nippel durch die Lasche ziehn
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i always liked the functionality of WordPerfect more than Word
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>like, line numbering... whenever i tried that in Word, it ended up wrong, and unfixable.
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16:46<Samu>you can set the space after and before a line
16:46<Celestar>WYSIWIG is a rotten concept for creating documents
16:47<Celestar>I've never seen it produce even remotely useful results
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16:47<Celestar>99.99% of word documents make me wanna vomit.
16:47<Samu>tell me if it's opening the htmls fine
16:49<Samu>i've edited class 5, 6, 8 and A
16:49<Samu>at m1 and m6 parts
16:49<Samu>but don't know if it's clear
16:54<Samu>I still don't know if have to edit objects and tunnel/bridge
16:54<Samu>because of aqueduct
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>you find that out by placing asserts in the right places. when it blows up, you know you have to change it
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16:57<Samu>aqueducts are not canals, just found out
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16:59<Samu>who are object owners in the game?
16:59<Samu>can a company own an object?
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17:02<Samu_>gah disconnections
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17:06<Samu_>SB(_me[t].m6, 2, 4, 0); SB(_me[t].m6, 0, 2, 0); SB(_me[t].m6, 6, 2, 0);
17:06<Samu_>is this just me or is it the same as _me[t].m6 = 0
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17:22<Oddingar>wish I could help, but got no clue, samu
17:22<Samu_>i got this so far
17:22<Samu_>it can boot the game
17:23<Samu_>i bet it is missing asserts
17:23<Samu_>but don't know what to do about it
17:26<Oddingar>what are you working on?
17:27<Samu_>trying to store owners at m6
17:27<@Terkhen>good night
17:27<Oddingar>good night, Terkhen
17:28<Oddingar>looks like you got your hands full
17:29<Samu_>can't put it in practice
17:30<Samu_>setting water is working fine, apparently, but something is amiss
17:30<Samu_>getting water ... no idea
17:30<Samu_>i bet it's not
17:31<Samu_>i didn't put anything related about OWNER_TOWN to OWNER_NONE conversion
17:32<Oddingar>is it easy to pull information from industries and use it somewhere else? like write it over on a sign placed near an industry
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17:48<Samu_>seems like this deals with the issue
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18:03<Samu>m6= 0xc3
18:04<Samu>canal owner none
18:04<Samu>stored as owner_town
18:04<Samu>much happy!
18:05<Samu>but at m1 cell it is wrong lol
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18:28<Oddingar>congrats :P
18:34<Wolf01> looks like a standard OTTD thing
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>well. design by committee :)
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>but obviously the continuation of that bridge as a bridge would have needed a much bigger bridge, to let ships pass
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18:50<Samu>looks like i got to edit tile_map too
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 04 00:00:38 2015