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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-08

---Logopened Sun Mar 08 00:00:44 2015
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03:14<juzza1>does it matter which part of an articulated consist has capacity, if all the others have zero capacity?
03:14<V453000>I would say no
03:14<juzza1>ie. does the position of the loading part make a difference in some edge case
03:15<V453000>I dont know of such case, but having it in one part is more flexible
03:15<V453000>... if you split it to all parts then you have to multiply capacity/loadspeed by number of parts
03:16<juzza1>yes, and that would probably affect loading speed aswell
03:20<V453000>tbh I have not yet considered how will I do this in DOOM
03:21<V453000>and since everything is made of 8 articulated consists, adding capacity/loadspeed to each part is probably not flexible enough
03:21<V453000>would then have to scale wagons by 8 as minimal value
03:21<V453000>though if they are 2 tiles long ...
03:21<V453000>might make wagons shorter :)
03:24<juzza1>yeah, if the vehicle is a single piece "in reality", then setting capacity to only one part makes the most sense anyway
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03:35<V453000>idk how does it show in the interface
03:35<supermop>i thought about having the standing capacity in one part and the seated in another in case you wanted to give those two different loading speed or decay rates
03:35<V453000>but 1 articulated vehicle is on 1 line anyway isnt it
03:35<V453000>idk how will it behave with loading sprites
03:35<supermop>or have livery refit disable standing capacity or something
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03:55<supermop>starting forum fights about monorails and BR intercity liveries
03:56<supermop>why do i bother with this noise?
03:56<andythenorth>no link, didn’t happen
03:57<supermop>i claimed that IC swallow was a weak livery for the 91s
03:57<supermop>this doesn't sit well with most englishmen apparently
04:00<supermop>only model trains i have are in swallow though to be honest
04:00<supermop>more because that's what was available in 1997
04:06<andythenorth>supermop: you have enraged a foamer
04:06<andythenorth>he’s not actually angry, just English
04:06<supermop>same thing?
04:06<andythenorth>also, what good thing could ever be in that part of the forum?
04:06<andythenorth>I have never been there before
04:07<supermop>another folly on my part:
04:08<supermop>i don't even like monorails but whatever
04:09<supermop>more or less what you said andy
04:09<supermop>but I was bored
04:12<supermop>draw rest of street bits? or toil unproductively towards houses?
04:13<supermop>got a nice hefeweizen here so i doubt too much serious work will occur
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04:24<@Alberth>Freight train challenge looks like fun
04:39<andythenorth>moar ships
04:43<@Alberth>it's a TRAIN challenge :p
04:47<supermop>hi planetmaker
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05:22<chillcore>good morning o/
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06:07<chillcore>damn I am rusty ... mapsize is not in tiles ... 1 '&&' is fatser then 4 (or so) '||'s ... also ... need more gui magic redraws, maybe some more auto-re-positioning/-sizing
06:08<chillcore>thinking about WWT_SLIDER ... I might do a WWT_MAGIC?
06:09<chillcore>tooltip "click me and see what happens"
06:09<chillcore>WWT_MAGIC would be WWT_EMPTY without the litle slider on top of it?
06:10<chillcore>somewhere in the liddle is zero
06:10<chillcore>which you can not enter btw
06:11<chillcore>for precision you use the querybox anyway?
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06:55<TrueBrain>for those who might wonder why bing is not indexing OpenTTD website correctly: they are on a perma ban
06:55<TrueBrain>bingbot seems to ignore any sense of decency
06:55<TrueBrain>and DDoSes services
06:55<TrueBrain>I have little to no interest to resolve that problem nicely, so I just add them to my nice little ban-list of IPs that are not welcome
06:58<TrueBrain>(to put it in numbers, the load on 3 machines went from 2.0+ to 0.1 after banning the IP range of bingbot ...)
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07:00<^Spike^>kinda wierd for bingbot to do that but can see you point
07:00<TrueBrain>that is exactly what I thought .. why would a search-engine bot act like a DoS
07:00<TrueBrain>but .. here they are ... doing their thing ...
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07:14<andythenorth>sounds like the story of crawlers deleting wikis
07:14<TrueBrain>NOTICE: openttd services will be rebooted today to apply latest patches etc; except some (minor) downtime :)
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07:31<TrueBrain>OMG IS DOWN
07:32<TrueBrain>owh, pfew, it is back
07:39<chillcore>yay \o/
07:39<TrueBrain>and now it is time to cycle MySQL .. which always gives a lovely issue with service that don't reconnect :D
07:43<andythenorth>never restart the mtSQL
07:43<andythenorth>or the mySQL
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07:45<TrueBrain>the worst about updating this many VMs, is that they all receive a new kernel :P
07:45<TrueBrain>means you have to reboot :(
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08:03<TrueBrain>and now it is time to cycle the gateway ... means all connections will drop in a moment :D
08:06<chillcore>see ya on the other side o/
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08:09<TrueBrain>there it goes ...
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08:13<TrueBrain>okay ... 4 VMs left .. tick tack ..
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08:15<frosch123>juzza1: the front part is somewhat important, at least for road vehicles
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08:45<TrueBrain>right, rebooting last VM ..
08:45<TrueBrain>wiki says byebye, be back soon :)
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12:44<DanMacK>Hey all
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12:58<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:11<chillcore>hey hey
13:15<Wolf01>by the way... 2 months after I finally found that movie title...
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13:55<TrueBrain>who has a good suggestion for a Subversion web interface?
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14:06<TrueBrain>that is what I did now: I removed it :D
14:09<andythenorth>or even, ugh, github
14:09<TrueBrain>what part of Subversion did you not understand? :)
14:11<andythenorth>the bit where you bin Subversion? :P
14:11*andythenorth is a broken record
14:11<andythenorth>no tool is better than any other tool etc
14:11<TrueBrain>next weekend tracd will go away, and we will have to live with gitweb and hgweb based on the git and hg clones of the svn
14:11<TrueBrain>no direct svn web interface it is :)
14:11<andythenorth>but having ditched svn + trac for git on bitbucket….I am a happier worker
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14:13<TrueBrain>made a nice post about it , w00p :)
14:15<@peter1138>i tried gitlab but it's really quite heavy
14:16<TrueBrain>I really like gitlab, only updating can be a pita
14:16<andythenorth>nice post
14:16<andythenorth>another TrueBrain classic
14:17<TrueBrain>after we moved VCS away, all that is left is moving mail + dev stuff away, and I can finally retire a 6 year old VM
14:17<TrueBrain>but I cannot really move away mail, because devs have .forward files
14:17<TrueBrain>so first I need to move that information into LDAP
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14:17<TrueBrain>which requires a frontend page to alter that information
14:18<TrueBrain>which requires an update of Django
14:18<TrueBrain>and omg .. that chain is endless
14:18<TrueBrain>will have to see if I can find a nice way around a few of those issues
14:18<Oddingar>I started a new game yesterday with FIRS, and for some reason I can't find any wagons that accepts the new industries, only the old ones ... any ideas?
14:18<TrueBrain>owh, and I have to move away stuff like .. and more of those administrative tools we have running
14:18<TrueBrain>sigh .. so much work .. such complicated service ...
14:19<andythenorth>TrueBrain: sysadmin’s life is never quiet
14:19<TrueBrain>I seriously am surprised every time I work on this how insanely complex is
14:19<TrueBrain>so many services that integrate with eachother and communicate ..
14:19<andythenorth>do we really host mail?
14:19<TrueBrain>I wish back the time it was only a webserver :D
14:20<TrueBrain>dev-mail, yes
14:20<andythenorth>and this is just openttd, all the coop stuff is separate :P
14:21<TrueBrain>which is another complexity on its own
14:21<andythenorth>so much web service there is
14:21<TrueBrain>OpenTTD alone is now 15 VMs ...
14:21<TrueBrain>but I rather have 15 VMs, than 1 ... with 1 updating of anything was near impossible :)
14:21<andythenorth>single occupancy ftw
14:21<TrueBrain>apt-get update, right, now 50% of the stuff broke ....
14:22<TrueBrain>well, upgrade, but who is counting
14:22<andythenorth>even better, outsource the service totally :P
14:22<TrueBrain>move to github? :D
14:22<TrueBrain>not many free compile-farm services out there :)
14:22<TrueBrain>let alone ones that do what we want :D
14:22<andythenorth>for work, my company used to run own svn, trac, etc
14:23<andythenorth>but it’s a waste of developer time maintaining vanilla stuff that is off-the-shelf for ££ / month
14:23<Oddingar>can I active a newgrf file after a game is started? or is it too late?
14:23<andythenorth>and sysadmins are expensive and hard to find :)
14:24<FLHerne>Oddingar: You _can_, but only by poking various cunningly-hidden settings and the big red 'this will break your game' dialog
14:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: it really is, indeed
14:25<FLHerne>Oddingar: Adding plain boring vehicle sets or things that just add sprites is usually ok
14:25<andythenorth>but some stuff is _so_ vanilla that it’s easier to just run it in a VM
14:25<andythenorth>like irc and ticket bots and such, which are stateless
14:25<FLHerne>Oddingar: Anything to do with industries and cargos, or that modifies the behaviour of other newgrfs, will probably break messily
14:26<andythenorth>takes longer to fill out credit card details than run some stuff
14:26<Oddingar>aight, thanks for your reply, I'll start over instead :P
14:26<NGC3982>I just killed my servers, since i noticed that about four people per week play on it.
14:27<andythenorth>saves coal
14:28<FLHerne>Oddingar: If you really want, run 'set scenario_developer 1' in the game console, then add grfs from in-game, then click 'OK' on the red box and don't complain when your game mysteriously gets corrupted
14:35*NGC3982 tries OpenTTD on the RPI.
14:38<@Alberth>Oddingar: Since you obviously didn't transport anything, you may as well just start anew cleanly
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14:41<Samu>i have one of those questions
14:41<Samu>what happens when the game needs more than 4 GB RAM when running a 32-bits version
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14:42<Eddi|zuHause>it runs out
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>and probably just quits
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>also, on 32bit systems you probably only have 2GB or maybe 3GB for user programs
14:44<Samu>testing 1 NoCAB on a 4096x4096 map
14:44<Samu>oh, just crashed
14:45<Samu>and this was the 64-bit openttd
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15:06<Samu>found it
15:09<Samu>well, stuff i don't know
15:12<TrueBrain>lolz @ /n
15:12<TrueBrain>just lolz
15:16<Oddingar>Alberth: I started on transporting passengers and wanted to continue with fish/food to the towns I already was transporting passengers between
15:17<@Alberth>hmm, ok :(
15:17<Oddingar>no worries, havent spent too much time on it
15:17<@Alberth>but yeah, wrong newgrf setup is a pain, I have been there too :(
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15:42<@Terkhen>good night
16:00<andythenorth>Alberth: download counts don’t mean much, but Busy Bee has a lot in a short time :o
16:01<@Alberth>It's different from other scripts :p
16:02<@Alberth>I wonder how many people really play competitively
16:03<+glx>andythenorth: some people download everything
16:03<frosch123>only some? or the majority? :p
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say the majority does not download anything
16:04<chillcore>apt-get install www
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16:04<frosch123>ok, i meant the majority of those downloading anything
16:05<@Alberth>we should supply just 1 zip file with everything :p
16:05<frosch123>there used to be torents
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16:06<frosch123>using free open source stuff is boring, using a torent makes it more exciting
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16:10*andythenorth waits for Eddi|zuHause to write a GS generator
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it takes like 2 minutes to make one...
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16:12<frosch123>what? a gs generator?
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16:17<chillcore>might need a script to control that :P
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16:42<Samu>Out of Memory
16:42<Samu>cannot reallocate 32768 bytes
16:47<__ln___>openttd won't run on a microcontroller then
16:51<Wolf01>"the last 32768"
16:52<TrueBrain>640kb is enough for everyone
16:52<Wolf01>that's the point, he didn't say "everything"
16:53<TrueBrain>he didnt say "sheep" either
16:54<Wolf01>windows is not in the "everyone" group
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17:18<@planetmaker>fun with trains: "We stopped as we have a technical issue with our brakes" Lucky I didn't have any connecting trains I had to get
17:18<frosch123>better than "we can't stop as we have a technical issue with out brakes" :p
17:19<+glx>can't happen frosch123
17:19<frosch123>depends whether you are talking about modern trains, or historic ones
17:19<+glx>it's designed to brake by default
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17:20<FLHerne>glx: Unless you're in the UK and have vacuum brakes
17:21<FLHerne>Scratch that, I'm thinking of something else
17:21<FLHerne>Not sure what though
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17:23<@planetmaker>glx, yeah, that seems to be the case... in the middle of nowhere the train ran into a quite hard stop ;)
17:24<+glx>and it's often linked to the doors, if a door fails to close, the brake won't release
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17:24<@planetmaker>well, we were running at max speed when it happend...
17:25<+glx>this can of course be disabled if there's a door problem to go to depot without passengers
17:26<+glx>and I think it should be possible to manually release brake for the same reason
17:27<+glx>else it's hard to go to maintenance location :)
17:27<@planetmaker>:) They probably did something like that... took them 20 minutes to "fix" the problem
17:28<+glx>first need to find the problematic wheel ;)
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18:35<supermop>whats going on
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---Logopened Sun Mar 08 19:20:15 2015
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19:20-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 127 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 119 normal]
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19:50<supermop>trouble motivating myself to do sidewalks
19:54-!-odd is now known as Oddingar
19:58<Oddingar>nice, don't know how to motivate you though
20:01<supermop>can't decide how to divy up the space between what i consider a sidewalk, and what is road
20:02<Oddingar>is it only for roads in openttd?
20:02<supermop>doesn't matter technically as as far as i can tell, the road with sidewalk, and without are two separate full tile sprites
20:03<supermop>at least in base sets, maybe road sets do it differently
20:04<Oddingar>sorry I can't help you :P
20:04<supermop>so you could have roads and sidewalks in towns be wildly different than in country side
20:04<supermop>and tram just overlays over the city road sprite
20:05<supermop>but the amount it overlays again could vary wildly based on preference
20:12<Oddingar>good luck (y) :P gonna watch an episode of homeland
20:30<+glx>supermop: as long as the vehicles don't run over the sidewalk ;)