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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-11

---Logopened Wed Mar 11 00:00:47 2015
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00:20<supermop_>what stile of corner looks best:
00:21<supermop_>pretend that the typo 'stile' was a pun based on stone barriers
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01:55<supermop_>yo Supercheese
01:55<Supercheese>whoops caps
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01:57<supermop_>want to give me some advice?
01:57<supermop_>which looks best
02:00<Supercheese>The straight curve roadway with something filling in the corner (tree etc.) would look most familiar to me
02:00<Supercheese>you don't really see squared corners like that anywhere around here
02:25<supermop_>its odd because inner city street rarely just have a plain 90 degree curve like that in them
02:26<supermop_>sorry for thaat delayed response
02:27<supermop_>not sure if the game puts street trees on corners
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02:34<Supercheese>In the tree-lined road zone, yes
02:34<Supercheese>trees are put on corners
02:35<Supercheese>likewise for street lights
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02:38<supermop_>not intersections though?
02:38<Supercheese>T-intersections have trees
02:38<Supercheese>4 way do not
02:38<Supercheese>but what the base set does is really irrelevant
02:38<Supercheese>you can do what you want with your sprites
02:39<supermop_>ah ok
02:40<supermop_>do you think the asphalt sidewalks are distracting?
02:40<Supercheese>Well, I would expect sidewalks to be concrete
02:40<Supercheese>not asphalt
02:41<supermop_>they are asphalt in most of melbourne which i find really odd
02:42<supermop_>in the cbd they have gradually been replaciing it with honed smooth basalt pavers about 1mx.5m
02:42<supermop_>I wanted to show both, but you only get one type of sidewalk
02:43<Supercheese>you could change sidewalks with town zone
02:44<supermop_>so previously i thought i'd not draw any sidewalks at all - have the road be full width - then draw regular or fancy sidewalk on the front areas of houses
02:44<supermop_>can roads change by townzone?
02:44<supermop_>if so that really opens up a world of possibilities
02:47<Supercheese>yeah you can pick whatever sprite you want to correspond to a given townzone
02:48<supermop_>for tramway too?
02:48<Supercheese>dunno about tram
02:49<Supercheese>but yeah, NARoads has dirt roads outside of towns, cobblestone inside
02:49<supermop_>i thought that was simply the sidewalk/no sidewalk boundry?
02:50<Supercheese>let me check
02:50<supermop_>i was not aware there was more granularity than binary for that
02:51<supermop_>having five levels would be great
02:51<Supercheese>oh poo
02:51<Supercheese>they are overlays
02:51<Supercheese>I stand corrected
02:51<Supercheese>so seems only binary
02:56<supermop_>my other crazy idea is to use streetlamp sprites to overlay the fancy sidewalk
02:57<supermop_>but i dont think you can have enough streetlamp types
02:57<supermop_>so i think i'll have fancy sidewalks by year -
02:58<supermop_>reload game after 2000 or so and all sidewalks are fancy
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05:39<argoneus>good morning train friends
05:39<argoneus>how is your wednesday morning going
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10:04<Samu>i think i found a bug with savegames
10:05<Samu>i swear i remember I had vehicles never expire turned on
10:06<Samu>now when i load the savegame, the setting is turned off
10:10<Samu>there's something strange with this
10:12<Samu>how can i tell what's the last year Balogh Goods Truck is available for purchase?
10:19<Samu>august 2005
10:19<Samu>i can't remember ever turning off this setting when i created this game
10:20<Samu>am i drunk or something?
10:22<Samu>well i can't be sure, so better disregard this report for now
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11:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, the setting almost certainly didn't turn off by itself
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12:13<__johannes>if one wants to make a patch, is git or svn more recommended?
12:15*planetmaker recommends mercurial. However use whatever you are happy with
12:15<@planetmaker>the patch itself also doesn't care about the VCS you use - it looks identical
12:16<__johannes>ah good
12:16<@planetmaker>openttd has official repos for all, svn, hg and git. Thus clone with whatever tool you like
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12:17<@planetmaker>our canonical one is svn, it's the only one which gets commits. But most developers don't use it for anything other than just that and use either hg or git for their "daily" work
12:18<@planetmaker>our hg and git mirrors are synced with svn on every commit, so ... they're just as up2date as well
12:19<@planetmaker>but make sure you develop patches agains svn trunk - not any release version :)
12:19<__johannes>yes, sure ;)
12:19<__johannes>git clone openttd -> what's the correct version?
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12:20<__johannes>I mean: what's the correct clone command, that one did not work
12:20<@planetmaker>but don't ask me about git
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12:21<__johannes>hmm you know someone who has been using it?
12:21<@planetmaker>however I know that you didn't get right the URL... it ends with .git
12:22<@Alberth>/me found that too just now :)
12:22<@Alberth>hi hi
12:22<@planetmaker>hihi :)
12:22*planetmaker -> shopping and dinner
12:23<@planetmaker>laters :)
12:23<@Alberth>good idea :)
12:23<__johannes>ah that worked, thanks
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12:24<@Alberth>you get all the useless data statistics for free :)
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12:25<__johannes>I noticed, it took 4 minutes to clone
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12:42<Samu>hi, found a semi-bug
12:42<Samu>i had initially max train size 64 tiles
12:42<Samu>someone made a train 8 tiles
12:43<Samu>now i decided to set max train to 7 tiles
12:43<Samu>when i am trying to remove 2 wagons from that train, i can't
12:43<Samu>max train size error
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12:46<Samu>it's done, had to set max train size to 8 first, then remove two wagons, and then back to 7
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12:52<@Alberth>yep sounds somewhat bug-ish
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13:17<Samu>there's a bug with this opengfx, rocks on half-desert, half-grass tiles are sometimes a strong green, some other times a pale green
13:19<Samu>i remember previous version didn't have this issue
13:19<@Alberth>that's known, afaik, I reported it some time ago
13:19<LordAro>i got bored:
13:19<LordAro>Rubidium: TrueBrain: ^
13:23<@Alberth>Samu: Hmm, I attached it to opengfx+landscape
13:24<Samu>ah yes, that's it, but I was on sub-tropic
13:31<@Alberth>it's likely to exist in several climates :)
13:31<@Alberth>it's a change in openttd that causes it
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27181 trunk/src/lang/french.txt (2015-03-11 17:46:24 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>french - 4 changes by glx
13:57<Samu>1 tree at a time
13:57<Samu>bribe authority is enabled
13:58<Samu>pf.roadveh_queue - im trying this off, some jams are improved, but some others are created :(
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14:09<TrueBrain>LordAro: what is secure today, is not secure tomorrow .. what can I say ... :P
14:10<LordAro>that tends to be the case with these sort of things :)
14:13<TrueBrain>either way, this weekend I hope to upgrade an ancient nginx version (debian stable) to a more modern
14:13<TrueBrain>debian stable~backports, I am guessing
14:13<TrueBrain>so I might as well try to fix that back to an A, as we used to be an A!
14:13<TrueBrain>I WANT MY A BACK
14:14<TrueBrain>then again, I might as well try it now :D
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14:18<Samu>I am a bit surprised that pf.roadveh_queue off is overall worse than pf.roadveh_queue on
14:18<Samu>looking at income
14:20<TrueBrain>lolz .. nginx is listening, but nothing is respondig .. odddd
14:21<TrueBrain>ah, no longer dualstack
14:21<TrueBrain>even better
14:22<TrueBrain>changes the log format *again*
14:22<TrueBrain>sigh ...
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14:23<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
14:23<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 7 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <andythenorth> V453000: it’s better? o_O
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14:24<DanMacK>I'll eventually catch him, lol
14:24<TrueBrain>adds +b to the channel ...
14:25<TrueBrain>LordAro: holy crap, testing a site takes for ever :P
14:25<LordAro>only a couple of min :3
14:25<LordAro>(the countdown stuff is massively inaccurate)
14:27<TrueBrain>I wonder how many people will have issues with me disabling SSL3 ..
14:27<TrueBrain>we will find out :D
14:28<@planetmaker>and yes, disabling ssl3... those who cannot access the site then don't deserve it. They likely work for nsa :P
14:28<TrueBrain>dropping RC4 too, because .. well ..
14:28<TrueBrain>bye-bye old browsers .. enjoy http
14:29<TrueBrain>hmm .. what ciphers to use ...
14:29<TrueBrain>only HIGH?
14:29<TrueBrain>haha, the advised list is ... LONG
14:31<TrueBrain>lets try this again :D
14:32<TrueBrain>only remaining question ... ssl_session_cache? :D
14:34<TrueBrain>IE6 / XP can no longer use https
14:34<TrueBrain>aint that the saddestsstststs
14:35<@Alberth>oh dear :p
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: isn't that a case of "the goggles, they do nothing!"?
14:36-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:36<TrueBrain>so lets rerun this test one more time
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14:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: happier?
14:39<TrueBrain>I still allowed a few weaker cipher
14:39<TrueBrain>mostly to not drop Windows support completely :D
14:40<TrueBrain>IE11 uses a pretty weak cipher
14:40<TrueBrain>but ... dropping https support for that might be too harsh :D
14:40<TrueBrain>then again
14:40<TrueBrain>I might be able to solve that server-side
14:42<Samu>autosave failed
14:42<Samu>never seen this before
14:43<TrueBrain>to enabling stapling or not .. hmm
14:44<@Alberth>disk full samu ?
14:44<Samu>nop, i suppose concurrent autosaves
14:45<@Alberth>ah ja, heftklammen sind sehr gut
14:46<TrueBrain>damn, takes for ever to make a 4k key :D
14:47<@Alberth>good security, take forever to generate the key, so you cannot deploy it :p
14:50<TrueBrain>the pains I go through for better Windows support
14:50<TrueBrain>still generating :D
14:52<Samu>that's it. pf.roadveh_queue is worse as off than on
14:52<Samu>I'm quite shocked
14:53<@Alberth>clearly, nicely waiting for your turn is profitable :)
14:53<Samu>it solves a few jams, but creates 2 big ones
14:54<Samu>1 didn't even exist
14:54<Samu>the other was just moved a bit further
14:54<TrueBrain>STILL generating, omg
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>just make sure you have enough waiting space
14:55<TrueBrain>at least my ran out :D
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>patience is a virtue :p
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>if virtues came easy, they wouldn't be virtues
14:56<Samu>i waited enough
14:56<Samu>turning it on again
14:58<Samu>those extended truck stations facing crossroads
14:58<Samu>is causing major jams
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14:58<TrueBrain>still not done ...
15:01<Samu>crossroad facing truck stations neither solution on or off is good
15:01<Samu>but on deals with it better
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15:03<TrueBrain>can you please send me some entropy, I seem to be missing a few :D
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>there's a lot of entropy in my room, come and get it.
15:08<TrueBrain>so who's fault was it that I am not burning a CPU at 100% during a CF run just to generate a new dh key?
15:08<TrueBrain>*points at LordAro*
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15:08<TrueBrain>@kick Samu please no spam URLs here
15:08-!-Samu was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [please no spam URLs here]
15:09<andythenorth>@kick cat
15:09<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Error: cat is not in #openttd.
15:09<TrueBrain>evening andy :)
15:09<@Alberth>hi hi
15:09<andythenorth>TrueBrain: does your one-time-rename-bananas offer still stand? o_O
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15:09<andythenorth>or is the window closed?
15:09<TrueBrain>ugh ... I nailed that window closed with 1000 nails
15:10<TrueBrain>and then some more
15:10<TrueBrain>seriously annoying to rename stuff :P Can't you just upload under a new name? :D
15:10<Samu>what happened
15:10<@Alberth>newgrf id and all that :)
15:10<andythenorth>what he said
15:11<andythenorth>the name isn’t just a meaningless string?
15:11<TrueBrain>tables, indexes, mirrors, clients ....
15:11<andythenorth>all of the internets stuff
15:11<TrueBrain>main issue is, if I remember correctly, that a rename means all filenames change
15:11<andythenorth>ach nvm :)
15:11<TrueBrain>or possible I could only do that for a new upload
15:11<TrueBrain>not sure tbh
15:11<andythenorth>I hoped name would just be an arbitrary title attribute
15:11<andythenorth>forget that
15:12<TrueBrain>werent you going to rewrite it? :P
15:12<andythenorth>wasn’t I
15:12<Samu>i got a kick
15:12<andythenorth>keeps you healthy
15:12<TrueBrain>no, for sure it is also related to how the file is named on disk
15:12<TrueBrain>[20:17] *** Samu has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (please no spam URLs here).
15:12<TrueBrain>reason states it enough, doesn't it?
15:12<Samu>that's a screenshot
15:12<TrueBrain>even if it was the queen on a tomato
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>your queen or the more popular queen? :p
15:13<Samu>to the left roadveh is off
15:13<Samu>to the right roadveh is on
15:13<TrueBrain>I have no more queen .. we now have a king ..
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>i probably knew that, but forgot
15:13<TrueBrain>well, there is a queen next to him
15:13<TrueBrain>but that is more a wanna-be :D
15:13<TrueBrain>IT FINISHED
15:14<@Alberth>yay! :)
15:15<TrueBrain>so ... all this reconfigure, and what do I get? More CPU cycles wasted on the frontend proxy :D
15:15<TrueBrain>Stapling active, seems to work fine too
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15:17<TrueBrain>awh, still only an A
15:17<TrueBrain>dh of 1024 gives 10 warnings with Windows IE ..
15:17<TrueBrain>dh > 1024 gives a warning with Java6
15:18<TrueBrain>IT IS NEVER ENOUGH :'(
15:18<TrueBrain>I don't get why I only get an A
15:19<TrueBrain>I want my damn A+ :(
15:21<TrueBrain>ah, no HSTS and no HPKP
15:21<TrueBrain>shall I enable HSTS? :D
15:21<TrueBrain>that could be fun?
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what that is
15:22<TrueBrain>nods to the browser it should be using HTTPS
15:22<TrueBrain>instead of HTTP
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a reasonable idea
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15:24<TrueBrain>okay, lets cycle that in too then
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15:25<TrueBrain>feels a bit weird to do that for HTTPS only ...
15:25<TrueBrain>you would think you want to tell browsers that on the HTTP channel :D
15:25<TrueBrain>but yeah .. when I now try to visit, I get redirected to https :)
15:25<TrueBrain>sweet :P
15:26<TrueBrain>we will see how that is received :D
15:28*andythenorth wonders how many insecure content warnings IE will now generate :P
15:28<TrueBrain>hmm .. I do wonder how a browser knows that you want him to use https, where the http channel doesnt suggest it ..
15:28<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I hope 0 :)
15:29<TrueBrain>ah, after visiting the https once, it will keep going back to https for next visits
15:29<TrueBrain>sweet :)
15:29<andythenorth>shall I start an IE VM? :P
15:29<TrueBrain>please do :D
15:29<andythenorth>IE and SSL are the bane of my life some days
15:29<TrueBrain>in the mean time I will just click: Internet Explorer
15:30<TrueBrain>0 warnings on this IE
15:30<andythenorth>it should redirect to https?
15:30<andythenorth>I have it on http
15:30<TrueBrain>no, browsers only get the nod once you have been on https that using https might be the right thing to do
15:30<andythenorth>if I go to https I get insecure content warnings
15:30<andythenorth>IE 7
15:30<TrueBrain>on what page?!
15:31<TrueBrain>for what ever possible reason?!
15:32<andythenorth>dunno, the IE explanation is shit
15:32<TrueBrain>well, IE11 doesnt, so I can just say: dont use IE on https then :D
15:32<TrueBrain>ha, A+
15:32<andythenorth>it didn’t like a cert
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15:32<TrueBrain>LordAro: happy now? :D
15:32<andythenorth>either our cert, or maybe a third part cert - is there any embedded third party content?
15:32<TrueBrain>all content uses //
15:33<TrueBrain>no protocol definition
15:33<andythenorth>yeah IE 7 hates the cert
15:33<TrueBrain>fuck IE :D
15:33<andythenorth>I reset my VM
15:33<TrueBrain>I generated a freaking 4k DH for it :(
15:33<andythenorth>is it self-signed?
15:34<TrueBrain>ungrateful ...
15:34<TrueBrain>no ......
15:34<TrueBrain>open it with any decent browser :P
15:34<andythenorth>it’s the OVH news portlet
15:34<andythenorth>third party
15:36<TrueBrain>so .. now lets look at HPKP .. while at it etc
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15:39<TrueBrain>HPKP is funny :)
15:39<TrueBrain>it can even report back to you if there was a failure :D
15:44<TrueBrain>well, I am happy with my A+
15:44<TrueBrain>I am disapointed LordAro is not giving me cookies :(
15:51<TrueBrain>there, the forum button now also keeps you on https if you came from there :)
16:01*Taede hands TrueBrain some home-made choc-chip cookies
16:01<TrueBrain>nom nom nom nom
16:02<TrueBrain>lovely :)
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16:54<V453000>hm ... would like to do the scaling some other way than scaling the actual model
16:54<V453000>but I dont think that is reasonably possible
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17:47<@Terkhen>good night
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17:59*LordAro gives TrueBrain some cookies
18:00<Samu>is SirkoZ a user of this chat?
18:00<@peter1138>@seen sirkoz
18:00<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen sirkoz.
18:01<TrueBrain>w00p, finally I received my cookie!
18:01<TrueBrain>THANK YOU LORDARO :D
18:01<Samu>oh, ty
18:01<Samu>I need some moderating tips :9
18:01<Samu>i upgraded all his trains, for that he thanked me
18:02<Samu>but then i removed his station spreading and added transfer trucks
18:02<Samu>and he hated me
18:03<ST2>maybe he couldn't read the server rules
18:03<Samu>no rules, i dunno how to make that
18:03<TrueBrain>rule 1: no rage-quitting? :P
18:03<ST2>rule 1: no quitting!
18:05<Samu>well if you see him in your games, tell him the road vehicles are all profiting
18:05<Samu>£123 is minimum
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18:05<Samu>but that's positive
18:07<Samu>his current profit catapulted him to be ahead of the AIs
18:07<Samu>but they're getting close
18:08<@planetmaker>Samu, generally, if you join a company of someone, talk to that person how he likes to see his company managed
18:08<@planetmaker>not everyone likes feeder services
18:09<@planetmaker>replacing the use of station spread by use of many many transfer vehicles is not considered always a bonus. Quite simple
18:09<Samu>hmm, i was attempting to maintain the same services
18:09<Samu>but I see
18:10<@peter1138>It's usually safe to fix blockages
18:10<@peter1138>Beyond that I wouldn't do much.
18:10<@planetmaker>yup. Not without asking
18:12<ST2>usually server communities have specific rules ingame, to make moderator actions justified, and explained to the player why (to he don't repeat same mistakes next time)
18:12<ST2>that communication part is very inportant, imho
18:13*Rubidium never had such issues on his server
18:13<Samu>station spreading was 64 tiles
18:13<Samu>i set it down to 12
18:13<Samu>he really made use of that
18:14<Samu>my fault as well
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18:18<Samu>entering the last last 9 years for this
18:18<Samu>i wanna end it at 2050
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18:34<supermop>planetmaker: thanks for feedback
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19:34<Samu>world recession with AI's
19:34<Samu>equals long queues
19:34<Samu>and trains killing trucks
19:35<Samu>too long rv queues
19:37<Samu>these recessions should happen more often
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>make a patch
19:37<Samu>hmm :)
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>(what have i done!)
19:38<Samu>in 100 years, it happened 2 times
19:38<Samu>only lasts 1 year :(
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19:40<Samu>they could either have a more meaningful impact, lasting at least 5 years
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19:40<ST2>Eddi|zuHause just invoked the doomdays xD
19:40<Samu>or they could happen more often
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>you only need to change one or two lines, and then add a setting, which is another 10 lines. you're done in an hour...
19:46<+glx>standard hours or very long ones ?
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how fast you move
19:47<ST2>and depends if user have daylength applied :D
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>if he moves close to the speed of light, one of his hours could feel like days for us
19:49<@planetmaker>and vice versa
19:50<@planetmaker>and only if he moves away from us
19:53<ST2>but I guess sound speed would be enough ^^
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20:22<Samu>tough duel for the last year
20:22<Samu>admiralai vs simpleai competing for company value
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: uhm, the speed of the clock doesn't depend on direction
20:33<supermop>if a road corner is sort of square and open, should the road lines still be round?
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>square corners are boring
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>like the old opengfx rivers... they were terrible
20:34<Samu>3 last months, seems like AdmiralAI won't be able to catch up SimpleAI for company value
20:34<Samu>but it will be very close
20:36<supermop>maybe rounded corner with a radius of half a tile instead of full tile?
20:38<Samu>it's over
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>if only...
20:39<Samu>SimpleAI - £830,636,404
20:39<Samu>AdmiralAI - £829,276,605
20:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure i said this somewhere, but money is like the least interesting metric in this game...
20:40<Samu>brb windows updates
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21:03<Eddi|zuHause>might be one of those updates where the antivirus marks essential windows files as infected and removes them
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 12 00:00:48 2015