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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-19

---Logopened Thu Mar 19 00:00:58 2015
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00:52<supermop>having trouble accessing
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02:18<Supercheese>Hmm, maybe django is playing hooky again
02:18<Supercheese>more 504 errors
02:19<supermop>also my autocad is acting up
02:42-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
02:42<chillcore>good morning interwebz
02:44*chillcore ponders doing a tgen smoothness light for 1.5 now
02:46<chillcore>peeps have all the convenience to test as much as they want now so I can just provide two arrays with some decent presets for large and small maps
02:46<chillcore>gui stuffs will then be for 1.6 and ;)
02:51<Supercheese>ah, I can access the page again
02:51<Supercheese>not a good time for the webserver to be spazzing
02:51<Supercheese>with the new release candidate
02:55<supermop>i can get it too now
02:56<chillcore>ye True*Brain must have woken up :P
02:57<chillcore>pesky europeans and their habit to sleep.
03:00<supermop>why are airports not snow aware
03:01<supermop>the default ones
03:01<chillcore>no sprites so not coded?
03:01<supermop>couldn't it be fixed by having the grass parts be transparent to show ground below?
03:02<chillcore>you can pick the order of the above words yourself
03:02<chillcore>hmm for airports? not sure if that would come out nice
03:02<chillcore>the snow is an overlay of tiles itself
03:03<chillcore>read: there is always a hidden tile underneath no matter the kind you actually get to see
03:04<chillcore>avoids ugly glithes that may occur when (custom and not custom) tiles are not pixelperfect drawn or coded
03:05<chillcore>think the effect you get when flying outside the map in HL (and other games)
03:06<chillcore>but yeah code needs sprites and sprites need code
03:07<Supercheese>OGFX+ airports should be snow aware
03:07<Supercheese>could check how they do it
03:07<chillcore>and ye would look better
03:08<chillcore>they are?
03:09<chillcore>then maybe opengfx could use some but but ... hystery
03:09<chillcore>you can not add sprites to the orgnall graphics and they are supported
03:09<supermop>i just mean for title game
03:09<chillcore>original* ... wakie wakie fingers
03:10<chillcore>ye you can have original sprites there too but not NewGRF
03:11<Supercheese>could load static newgrf
03:12<chillcore>sure but you can not expect other peeps to have installed what you have
03:13<chillcore>as it is now vanilla OpenTTD weighs about 10 MB
03:13<chillcore>including eg. 'just' zBase by default would mean 300+ at least
03:15<chillcore>hosting is kindly sponsered by various entities free of charge
03:15<chillcore>for us users that is
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03:45<chillcore>Hmm ... my freshly cloned hg source is not at default tip (r27193) but instead at r27185
03:45<chillcore>^^^ TrueBrain
03:45<chillcore>no big drama but yeah
03:47<chillcore>to be more correct: default is r27185 instead of tip
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05:39<Eddi|zuHause><chillcore> you can not add sprites to the orgnall graphics <-- sure you can. it's done all the time
05:43<chillcore>moin eddi
05:45<chillcore>ye now that you mention it there is that 'extra' grf I conveniently forgot about ... what would I do without you? ;)
05:47<chillcore>so provided sprites and proper coding airports could be snowy in vanilla. or is there still something else I am missing?
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08:03<LordAro>is it working now?
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08:20<supermop>more houses to do
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08:22<NGC3982>I love my computer.
08:22<NGC3982>So much.
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08:36<DanMacK>Hey all
08:37<Pikka>hello DanMacK
08:39<_dp__>Did anyone ever bothered testing double/quad size interface?
08:40<_dp__>especially with custom fonts
08:40<_dp__>like half of elements are not being resized properly
08:42<chillcore>please compile a list of things to fix and someone, if not you, will get to it eventually; most likely. ;)
08:46<chillcore>@seen someone
08:46<DorpsGek>chillcore: someone was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 22 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>@seen nobody
08:47<DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen nobody.
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>your grandma sucks...
08:48<chillcore>@seen grandma
08:48<DorpsGek>chillcore: I have not seen grandma.
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>what have you got these giant eyes for, then?
08:53<chillcore>I need them for better seeing these small gui elements my munchie :P
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08:57<UukGoblin>a new day, and a new idea. Rather than moving the cost calculation between GS, NewGRF and the changes to the codebase, I'd just add a new core game setting and do everything in C++
08:58<UukGoblin>I think it'd be way cleaner and easier, both to write and to use
08:58<UukGoblin>insta-compatibility with everything
08:58<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
08:58<DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 30 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: * andythenorth to bed
09:00<_dp__>I added some bugs to tracker, but almost everywhere some thing or other doesn't look right
09:01<_dp__>Mostly it is due to icons being too big
09:01<chillcore>hmm too big?
09:01<_dp__>Also standalone buttons that resize to text boundary look weird when compared to smth like buttons in window footers that resize independently
09:02<chillcore>are you using the big gui NewGRF?
09:03<_dp__>Not sure actually) I don't use newgrf but when I downloaded opengfx in game it also got smth with big ui
09:03<chillcore>ye that is a feature of resizable fonts .... the gui resizes to fit everything in proportion
09:04<chillcore>but sprites do not resize that way
09:04<chillcore>try removing it from the newgrf config and test again?
09:04<chillcore>what platform are you playing on and what is your screenres?
09:05<_dp__>you mean [newgrf*] sections in openttd.cfg? they are empty
09:06<chillcore>form main menu click on newgrf settings
09:06<_dp__>linux (sdl), 1680x1050
09:07<chillcore>to change newgrfs in running games is a bad idea most of the times
09:07<chillcore>the config file is overwritten with current values on game exit
09:07<chillcore>during gameplay it does not change unless forced to do so
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09:09<_dp__>checked newgrfs, don't use any
09:09<_dp__>I have OpenGFX BigGUI grf downloaded but it is not active
09:10<chillcore>same desktop res as me ...
09:11<chillcore>running games might have a different newgrf config as the one in main menu ...
09:14<_dp__>I know, nothing ui related in any savegames, also checked in new game without any grfs
09:16<chillcore>well the thing is that the closebox and such use graphics which do not resize ...
09:17<chillcore>try activating the big gui newgrf to see if that s better for you then?
09:17<chillcore>best is new game ^^^
09:24<chillcore>uh that is a really bad glitch you have there
09:25<_dp__>tried biggui, it's different, but can't say it's better) only makes some icons bigger
09:26<chillcore>to me it seems as if you are using the big gui in the game you took screenshots of ...
09:27<chillcore>did you check ingame? under the cogwheel there is a newgrf settings button
09:27<chillcore>just saying ^^^
09:28<_dp__>you mean hires icons? I think new opengfs is providing them
09:28<chillcore>hi-res? there is 8bpp 32bpp and there is size which s something xompletely different
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09:29<_dp__>also all screenshots were made on double size interface, but it only matters for error message
09:29<chillcore>I am using opengfx too but my icons ore smaller ...
09:29<chillcore>ah that must be it then
09:30<chillcore>anyhoo the three entries you made are valid bugs. thank you
09:34<_dp__>but I'm not sure what to do with the rest
09:34<_dp__>try using constom font of like size 12 and double or quad interface size
09:34<_dp__>I think you'll see what I'm talking about
09:35<chillcore>#6258 is something for opengf to fix actually
09:35<chillcore>it will be fixed in all guis with fixing 1 sprite
09:36<chillcore>no need to repeat those as bugreports
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09:36<chillcore>#6257 is a matter of forgetting the townpop label in smallmap
09:37<chillcore>#6259 not sure what happened there ...
09:37<chillcore>I am not sure why I would want to quadsize my interface size?
09:37<_dp__>sprite size changed with interface size, but window wasn't resized to accomodate it
09:38<chillcore>is that a bug in openttd or your distro?
09:38<_dp__>in ttd I think
09:38<_dp__>probably some OnResize missing ;)
09:39<ST2>cooooooooookies!!!! Good morning ;)
09:39<chillcore>why? openttd does not resize interfase for as far as I am aware
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09:40<@peter1138>Sure it does.
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09:41<UukGoblin>trying to load a savegame from 1.4.4 in a recent version (svn r27193) results "Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size", did I forget to set some compile-time setting?
09:41<chillcore>o/ ST2
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>UukGoblin: typically you get this message when the savegame is from some patched version
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause>or if you patched the new version, and didn't apply savegame conversion correctly
09:43<UukGoblin>Eddi|zuHause, oh, ok, I guess that comes from me playing a patched svn version instead
09:43<UukGoblin>that's it :-)
09:46<UukGoblin>kinda makes sense, I added a new setting which has to be saved in games, so the chunk size is expected to change ;-)
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10:03<Samu>504 Gateway Time-out
10:09<chillcore>lol @ the Atari
10:09<chillcore>I bet they tested much
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10:12<Dr0ppy>can i get some help please?
10:12<chillcore>just ask instead of asking to ask ;)
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10:13<Dr0ppy>so it says it cant open a file
10:13<Dr0ppy>also it says gateway timed out 504
10:13<Dr0ppy>file is c program files open ttd data
10:18<chillcore>this helps?
10:18<Samu>those colors
10:19<Samu>reminds me of starcraft brood war
10:19<Samu>there was a fix for starcraft brood war which involved in editing windows registry
10:20<Samu>something like [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectDraw\Compatibility\Starcraft116]
10:21<Samu>probably a similar fix is needed for locomotion
10:22<Samu>or if using 64 bits windows
10:22<chillcore>I doubt he/she is reading her samu
10:23<Samu>seems to be a palette conversion
10:23<Samu>ok, sorry
10:31<chillcore>fine for me but helps noone ;)
10:31<chillcore>but ye pallete conversion or screensaver kicking in
10:32<Samu>i hear it's windows aero interfering, explorer.exe running in the background and so on
10:32<Samu>messes with the colors
10:33<chillcore>quite possible yes and nothing new
10:37<UukGoblin>so if I want to find all industries producing a given cargo type, is there really nothin more efficient than iterating through them all and checking every industry's all produced cargos?
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10:39<chillcore>Uukgoblin: click an industry and display chain, form there link to smallmap
10:40<chillcore>not sure what info you are after ...
10:40<UukGoblin>chillcore, sorry, I should've said: in the C++ code ;-)
10:40<UukGoblin>I mean that's what ScriptIndustryList_CargoProducing does so I guess there are no better indices to use
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>UukGoblin: what more efficient method do you expect other than looking at each one?
10:41<UukGoblin>just thinking that iterating through a few hundred industries on each cargo delivery might hurt
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>UukGoblin: there's no indexing on output cargo or something going on
10:41<UukGoblin>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, maybe some nice cargo-type index
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>you need to make that on your own, then
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10:42<UukGoblin>Eddi|zuHause, nodnod, thank you :-)
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>and keep it updated on opening/closing industries
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>including magic bulldozer and stuff
10:42<UukGoblin>I assume industries are created fairly rarely, compared to the number of times a cargo gets delivered
10:44<chillcore>ye samu ... but that is not something a player should ever be expected to fix ... it is Atari being lazy and just looking for a quick money grab
10:45<_dp__>mb filtering by industry type first can speed up things a bit, not sure tho
10:45<chillcore>Chris should sell his Transport Tycoon on steam and using the diff as selling point :P
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10:49<UukGoblin>hmm, actually, all industries are iterated on each tick anyway.. maybe I overestimated the iteration cost
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>usual iterations are every 256 ticks (called "the tile loop")
10:52<_dp__>not all as far as I can tell, each is ticked every INDUSTRY_PRODUCE_TICKS
10:52<chillcore>ohoh moki did post some values while back and I totally missed them ... :blushes:
10:52<UukGoblin>ah yeah, industry ticks
10:53<UukGoblin>should be fine.. :-)
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11:26<Samu>oh yesh, i just fixed ship depot demolishing
11:27<chillcore>nice ... maybe keep the fixes as seperate patches for now? makes it easier to debug as you go; if needed
11:28<Samu>that MakeWaterKeepingClass must be doing something
11:28<Samu>i don't know what it really do yet, i have to investigate
11:29<Samu>(but not now!) - ok i know
11:29<Samu>i always get lost in details
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11:30<chillcore>it is okay to take a break from time to time and investigate something else to have a change of mind
11:30<chillcore>just when fixing stuffs one thing at atime works better ;)
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12:49<Samu>this DoCommand is annoying
12:50<Samu>isn't there a more elegant way to prevent it from changing
12:50<Samu>that bit information?
12:50<Samu>the canal on river
12:52<@Alberth>dinner is coming
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12:53<asdw>Hello all
12:53<Samu>what are these flags for
12:53<asdw>Having issue getting to
12:54<@Alberth>me has that too, apparently
12:55<asdw>you can ping the website but not actually ge to it
12:55<asdw>i didnt know who to report it too
12:55<@Alberth>here was fine :)
12:55<asdw>found this on the wiki
12:55<asdw>I wanted to download the new RC
12:55<@Alberth>forwarded it to our sysadmin
12:56<asdw>ill be looking forward to getting the new RC
12:56<asdw>have a good day
12:56<asdw>will do
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12:57<Samu> delete i;
12:58<Samu>delete industry, how exactly does it delete it?
12:58<@Alberth>just like any c++ object gets deleted
13:00<@Alberth>I don't see how it's special, everything is c++, so it follows c++ rules
13:01<Samu>when i bulldoze an industry in scenario editor, where in the code does that happen?
13:01<Samu>i have to find this
13:01<Samu>especially the tiles
13:02<Samu>how does it remove the tiles
13:04<@Alberth>inside delete i, I'd say
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: "delete" calls the destructor
13:04<@Alberth>ie some destructor
13:10<Samu>hmm i think i found it
13:10<Samu>MakeWaterKeepingClass again being the culprit
13:14<@Alberth>yeah, we like to have the least amount of code for handling things, so you'll run into the same code all the time within one topic
13:14<Samu>inside MakeWaterKeepingClass
13:14<Samu>that's the problem
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13:15<Samu>gonna try to fix this thing
13:29<Samu>damn MSE really slows down my system
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13:43<Samu>grr, dumb MSE hogs my HDD
13:43<Samu>it becomes so unresponsive that nothing reacts on the screen
13:45<DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27197 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-03-19 18:45:05 +0100 )
13:45<DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<DorpsGek>swedish - 3 changes by Joel_A
13:45<Samu>i really need a SSD
13:45<Samu>stupid antiviruses don't know how to use a HDD
13:45<@Alberth>more memory is easier ?
13:46<Samu>queue depth is more than this drive can handle
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13:47<Samu>RAM usage is at 4.57
13:48<Samu>cpu usage 2%~
13:48<@Alberth>machine isn't using its resources very well then
13:49<Samu>hdd usage 100%
13:49<@Alberth>yeah, windows is horribly inefficient
13:49<Samu>queue depth between 4.6 and 8
13:50<UukGoblin>this Xorg client number limit is annoying
13:50<UukGoblin>someone should fix that already, 256 clients is totally not enough for 16 desktops
13:51<UukGoblin>I'll have to work around this and route all my rxvts via tmux :-S
13:51<Samu>disk speed 2 MB/s
13:52<@Alberth>run a second server :)
13:53<Samu>access time for some files are in 1000 ms
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13:54<Samu>Is there a way to lower priority?
13:54<Samu>io priority
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13:55<@Alberth>it sounds more like some program is doing insane things
13:57<UukGoblin>it's probably the (anti)virus
13:58<Samu>doing funny things with my HDD
13:58<UukGoblin>think about it - viruses steal your computer's resources to perform tasks that they feel beneficial to their security. Antiviruses do basically the same...
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13:59<Samu>it seems to be extracting archives
14:00<Samu>to a temporary folder
14:00<Samu>extracting multiple archives extracting at the same time while scanning them
14:01<Samu>then some archives have other archives inside them, they are also extracted to be scanned
14:01<Samu>no wonder
14:03<Samu>cpu usage for MsMpEng.exe averaging 3%
14:03<Samu>that's so funny
14:04<Samu>limit scanning to a max of 10% cpu usage, does nothing
14:04<Samu>what a useless feature
14:06<UukGoblin>that's because the scanner doesn't use CPU
14:06<UukGoblin>the kernel does
14:07<Samu>i can't set a lower value than 10%
14:07<UukGoblin>uninstall that antivirus
14:07<Samu>averaging 3% turns this unresponsive
14:07<UukGoblin>and get a linux machine
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14:09<ASDW>Thanks guys its back up at
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14:10<+glx>I won't call MSE an antivirus
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: what you're hitting is not the CPU limit, but the disk I/O limit
14:11<DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27198 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-03-19 19:11:00 +0100 )
14:11<DorpsGek>-Revert (r27197): WT3 being rude.
14:11<Samu>I see, how do I remove priority to that
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>a mitigation technique could be moving the temporary folder to a ramdrive
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>also, annoy the hell out of the product support...
14:12<Samu>hmm needs to be a big ramdrive, some archives are giant
14:12<Samu>7 GB
14:12<Samu>4 Gb
14:12<Samu>and i only got 8 GB RAM
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you can tell it to ignore archives
14:13<Samu>I can, but...
14:13<Samu>... makes no sense when I need to scan everything
14:15<Samu>windows10technicalpreview .iso -> install .wim -> blabla .cab
14:16<Samu>these archiving methods slow down so much
14:18<Samu>MakeWaterKeepingClass appears to be the solution after all
14:19<Samu>if I put the bool stuff here
14:19<Samu>I won't have to put in many other cases
14:28<Samu>Windows XP / Vista / 7 (64bit) (installer) - you don't mention Windows 8 there
14:32<Samu>heh, SmartScreen Filter is telling me this program is not transferred very often and that it's not signed by it's author -> openttd-1.5.0-RC1-windows-win64.exe
14:32<Samu>mucho secure
14:32<Samu>recommends me not to execute it, hmm :)
14:33<@peter1138>Well, it's new.
14:34<Samu>i have a weird feeling microsoft is spying
14:34<Samu>what is downloaded and what is not
14:34<+glx>only for MSE users
14:35<@peter1138>If you're using IE, you get what you deserve.
14:35<Samu>it's IE11
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14:36<Wolf01>o/ o/
14:52<frosch123>@services op
14:55<@Alberth>@services op
14:57<TrueBrain>@services op
14:57-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
14:57<TrueBrain>thar, I fixed him
14:59<V453000>Doesnt seem to work
14:59<TrueBrain>@kick V453000 1 mayhem coming up
14:59-!-V453000 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [1 mayhem coming up]
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15:00<V453000>Was just pointing at flaws!
15:00<TrueBrain>I pointed back :D
15:01<V453000>:D I accept the feedback
15:01<@DorpsGek>you're welcome
15:02<TrueBrain>too many people with say right .... :D
15:02<+glx>(and with client shortcuts so it's hidden)
15:08<Samu>woah, im impressed
15:08<Samu>editing MakeWaterKeepingClass alone fixed many things at once
15:08<Samu>dock water tile is still failing
15:19<Samu>so nice, everything is fixed, except for docks
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15:20<Samu>upon building
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15:22<andythenorth>cat is bee
15:26<andythenorth>cat is not horse
15:29<andythenorth>he has a point
15:31<Samu>wow dock is confusing
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15:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: except it's all pointless
15:55<andythenorth>I wondered
15:55*andythenorth tries to reproduce a really odd Road Hog bug
15:55<andythenorth>earlier I had two trucks, same model
15:56<andythenorth>for the same direction (they were following each other), one failed to recolour the 2CC parts
15:56<andythenorth>the other recoloured them correctly
15:56<andythenorth>I didn’t screenshot :(
15:56<andythenorth>I changed the newgrf on running game, so all bets are off
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15:58<andythenorth>do we have any way to calculate fps, or equivalent?
15:58<andythenorth>and log it?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>not really
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe if you put TIC/TOC in the right places
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15:59<andythenorth>I’d like some numbers to evidence that double-size UI makes ffwd quantitatively slower
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
15:59<andythenorth>I could screenshot a vehicle over fixed distance, with my system clock showing in seconds :P
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>amount of sprites has way more impact than size of sprites
15:59<andythenorth>anyway, ffwd on OS X currently isn’t
15:59<+glx>ffwd depends on many things
16:00<@peter1138>Sure it is. It's not the game's fault your PC is too slow... :p
16:00<andythenorth>I suspect Apple
16:01<andythenorth>on my last mac, ffwd was (ridiculously) fast for a sensible map / game
16:01<andythenorth>on this one, it’s a slug
16:01<Samu>i can't seem to do this for dock
16:02<Samu>there's a hidden 3rd tile which gets the information about it being built on river
16:02<Samu>that's wrong
16:02<Samu>can i get some help
16:03<andythenorth>something has changed in OS X compiling / blitters / something
16:03<andythenorth>eh who knows, too many things I don’t understand :)
16:03<Samu>what I'm doing for the 3rd tile is to be done on the 2nd tile, the middle one instead
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can change blitters from command line
16:04<Samu>CommandCost CmdBuildDock(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
16:04<Samu>in station_cmd.cpp file
16:05*andythenorth looks in wiki
16:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: openttd config, or .configure?
16:06<andythenorth>./configure *
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd -blah
16:06<andythenorth>run time
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, config could do as well
16:09<andythenorth>-b, no space?
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16:10<@Alberth>works with space too
16:10<andythenorth>this is outdated wrt gui size :D
16:11<@Alberth>wiki is out of date at many places :(
16:11<andythenorth>nature of wikis
16:11<andythenorth>assuming I’ve done it correctly none of the blitters I’ve tried make any difference to ffwd
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16:12<andythenorth>as there’s no animation with some of the blitters, I’m assuming I’ve done it correctly :P
16:13<andythenorth>on 1x GUI zoom, the 32bpp-optimized blitter has acceptable ffwd with ‘full animation' off
16:13<andythenorth>is it time to get a virtualbox to play OpenTTD in?
16:13<andythenorth>OS X port might be dead
16:14<andythenorth>which of these would I hate least?
16:15<andythenorth>I am low on HD space :P
16:15<Supercheese>aren't we all...
16:17<Samu> if (river) SB(_me[tile + TileOffsByDiagDir(direction)].m6, 0, 1, 1);
16:17<Samu>i hope this do what i think it does
16:19<andythenorth>500MB of openttd saves
16:19<andythenorth>that can mostly go :P
16:19<Samu>oh yes! ox29
16:20<Wolf01>12TB of OTTD grfs
16:20<Samu>and MakeWaterKeepingClass is doing it's magic correctly as well
16:20<Samu>after I fixed it
16:20<Samu>guys, I think my patch is complete now
16:21<Wolf01> <-
16:21<Samu>let me show you
16:23<@Alberth>Wolf01: :D
16:23<Samu>tell me
16:23<Samu>what u trhink
16:24<@Alberth>I wonder what other Pathing_TryNode calls I have
16:27<Samu>and objects didn't need to be edited
16:27<Samu>kind of surprised me
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16:32<Supercheese>oh neat, potential fix for the "ahshite I blew up the river by mistake" eh?
16:35<Supercheese>think I can test that, lemme compile and get back to ya
16:36<Samu>you can still destroy rivers
16:36<Samu>what I did was for the canal being built on rivers
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16:37<Supercheese>So, build canal on river, blow up canal, river restored?
16:37<Supercheese>ah, I see
16:37<Samu>if you destroy a 2nd time, river is then gone
16:38<Supercheese>well, I can still test that then
16:38<Samu>I'm just worried about those NewGRFs
16:38<Samu>I have a bad feeling about those which use different stations or industries
16:40<Samu>I dunno what i could do about that
16:42<Supercheese>Hm, compile errors, wonder what went wrong
16:43<Samu>is it my fault?
16:43<Supercheese>I do not yet know
16:44<Supercheese>It seems there's an instance where you try and use the "delta" variable where it hasn't been declared
16:45<Supercheese>either that or there is weird interaction
16:45<Supercheese>between my source, I had commented out a few lines in water_cmd already
16:45<andythenorth>does he know that cdist is predictive?
16:45<Supercheese>should really try with clean source bleh
16:45*andythenorth is really puzzled how it could work
16:46<Samu>HasBit(_me[tile - delta].m6, 0);
16:46<Samu>delta is only mentioned for locks
16:46<Samu>declared or whatever
16:47<andythenorth>last time I check, cargo won’t be moved to a station anyway, unless a vehicle with valid refit has been there
16:47<andythenorth>and ‘refit available’ won’t meet that criteria
16:47<andythenorth>checked *
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16:47<Supercheese>yeah I think my previous edits messed with your patch
16:47*andythenorth grumble grumble
16:47<andythenorth>will I play openttd, or fix this datepicker widget?
16:47<andythenorth>or go to bed?
16:53<Supercheese>ok, it's compiling now, serves me right for dropping a patch on top of another patch
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16:53<Supercheese>it may have been helpful to create a patch with more lines of context around the diff areas, hmm
16:54<Supercheese>should be a setting for that somewhere
16:55<Samu>what's that?
16:56<Supercheese>in *.diff files, you see ≈3 lines above and below your changes, increasing those lines of context would be helpful in several instances
16:56<Supercheese>dunno if you can change that in TortoiseSVN though
16:57<Samu>oh, I think i know what you mean, let me check if there's an option
16:57<Supercheese>seems like it's actually not configurable
16:58<@Alberth>plain svn doesn't have it
16:58<Supercheese>would have to call your own diff program in that case
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: your 4. is just a variation of 3.
17:00<@Alberth>svn cat file.txt | diff -u -C10 - file.txt or so :)
17:00<Supercheese>well, the patch seems to work
17:00<Supercheese>build canal on river -> blow up canal -> river restored
17:00<Supercheese>which does not happen in vanilla
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17:01<Supercheese>however, build canal on ocean -> blow up canal -> bare ground appears
17:01<Supercheese>this patch didn't change anything regarding that
17:01<Supercheese>but it now seems incongruous behavior
17:02<@Alberth>I wonder whether the latter has a function
17:02<Supercheese>build canal on ocean you mean?
17:02-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
17:02<Supercheese>that's used to hack together the seaplane airport
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17:03<@Alberth>hmm, you should be able to build a canal there, perhaps :p
17:03<Supercheese>or other sealevel structures
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17:03<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: fair point
17:03<andythenorth>I read change as ‘modify’
17:03<andythenorth>but eh
17:03<Supercheese>and the water tiles are animated differently, which looks really weird
17:05<Supercheese>although you can create some neat effects with a 0-height island by using canals on ocean
17:06<Samu>build canal on sea, I didn't do anything aobut that
17:07<Supercheese>yeah, but it now sticks out as opposite the new river behavior
17:07<Supercheese>whereas before it was the same for both
17:08<Samu>it's because I don't think it's needed
17:08<Supercheese>a valid design decision :)
17:08<Samu>becomes bareland, then it's flooded a second later, so it's sea again
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it can be used to open strips of land e.g. to build rails on sealevel, because the canals prevent flooding
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: preventing building canal on ocean just means you need to blow up the ocean and then build a canal
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>there's really no point in why that should be preferable
17:10<@Alberth>it should flood then :p
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>i disagree.
17:10<andythenorth>canal on sea is essential
17:11<Samu>ah i see what you mean
17:11<Samu>better not restore sea then
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: well, restoring the sea might mitigate an effort to cheat
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: blowing up water is very expensive. building canal and blowing up the canal may be cheaper
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17:14<Samu>or maybe I don't see what you mean
17:17<Samu>an island protected by canals at level 0
17:18<Supercheese>Eddi|zuHause: It is indeed cheaper
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17:18<Samu>sorry, I am confused about airports on water, which grf uses that
17:21<Supercheese>Av8 has seaplanes
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17:32<Samu>which model is a seaplane, im new to this
17:34<Supercheese>you have to enable them via parameter
17:34<Supercheese>Seaplane Preview
17:44<Samu>i don't understand the point of that
17:44<Supercheese>well, seaplanes shouldn't really be able to land on regular tarmac
17:44<Supercheese>but OTTD has yet to distinguish runway types
17:45<Samu>i can't build the airport on water
17:47<@peter1138>Someone™ should make it do that...
17:48<Supercheese>you don't build it on water, as the thread indicated
17:48<Supercheese>you clear land, optionally surround it with canals, then build the airport on the bare land
17:48<Samu>if i dont surround it with canals, it's flooded
17:48<Supercheese>you'll need the canals if you build it on cleared ocean
17:48<Supercheese>or newobjects I suppose
17:49<Samu>i can't place the water object
17:49<Samu>it's 0x0 size
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17:51<Samu>well, technically, this is not an airport built on a canal
17:52<Samu>which could have been built on river
17:52<Samu>so... i'm safe from this
17:52<Samu>it's an airport built on bareland tiles
17:53<Samu>but it looks like water
18:03<Supercheese>yeah, you don't need to worry much about it, I mentioned in regarding the utility of building canals on ocean
18:16<Samu>there's something missing on the patch, the landscape html files
18:16<Samu>i dont have a decent html editor
18:21<Samu>i can't see the results immediately, or can i?
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18:24<Supercheese>Well, ctrl+s, open the .html in browser, not necessarily immediate but close
18:24<Supercheese>I don't do much html though
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18:44<Samu><li>m6 bit 0: river restoration flag for canals</li>
18:45<Samu>is this clear enough?
18:45<Samu>maybe not
18:45<Samu>for when a canal is removed
18:45<Samu>help me at english
18:46<Samu><li>m6 bit 0: river restoration flag for whenever a canal is removed</li>
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19:06<Samu>notepad++ is awesome
19:06<Samu>here's a new patch revision
19:12<Samu>or here
19:33<supermop>i know this is antithetical to the idea of iron horse, but i find myself missing multiple units
19:33<supermop>i've made a train of three slammers and two passenger cars, but it's quite expensive and looks odd
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19:54<Samu>chat looks silent
19:55<Samu>in your opinion, what you think it's easier to do?
19:55<Samu>terraformable rivers or 2 owners for canals?
20:05<supermop>terraformable rivers?
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20:14<Samu>permanent, yet terraformable rivers
20:14<Samu>but i think i have to forbid rivers at level 0
20:26<supermop>how are they permanent? do they have a way of re-routing themselves?
20:27<Samu>permanent in the sense of (x, y) coordinates
20:27<Samu>terraformable for z
20:28<Samu>they're not really permanent, they're first removed, then restored, but with a different z and slope
20:28<Samu>i think this is what i have to do
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20:32<Samu>i need a different function than void MakeWaterKeepingClass(TileIndex tile, Owner o)
20:32<Samu>must invent lol
20:33<Samu>it has to be a bit like MakeRiver but with certain restrictions
20:34<Samu>similar to those in MakeWaterKeepingClass
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21:07<Samu>hmm TerraformTile_Water(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, int z_new, Slope tileh_new)
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21:29<chillcore> samu
21:29<chillcore>if you are really curious what is happening behind the screen
21:29-!-APTX [] has joined #openttd
21:29<chillcore>should come wit a warinng
21:29<chillcore>"Do you really wanna know?"
21:29<chillcore>"Are you sure?"
21:30<chillcore>only then you can download ... :P
21:34<Samu>do you have flash installed?
21:35<Samu>i am messing with rivers
21:35<Samu>if you wanna see
21:36<chillcore>me flash ... I remove it after every windows update ... so nope
21:36<chillcore>why would I need it?
21:37<chillcore>htlm5 for vids works fine
21:37<Samu>wanted to show you terraformable rivers
21:37<Samu>it is funny that it works with only 2 lines of code, but there's a lot missing
21:37<chillcore>I can imagine without testing ... don't seem like a good idea to me tbh
21:38<Samu>this link for html5 but i doubt it works correctly
21:39<chillcore>I has twitch on ipad noprob
21:39<chillcore>channel not found
21:39<chillcore>got it
21:40<chillcore>loading forever ... :P
21:40<Samu>:8 what's the dl speed?
21:40<chillcore>50 ... it sais you're offline
21:40<Samu>im not, i can see myself
21:41<chillcore>let me unblcok some stuffs :P
21:43<chillcore>there ... silly google
21:44<chillcore>ye tat is what I mean ... now rivers run upstream
21:45<chillcore>that is sea flooding
21:45<chillcore>press ff
21:46<chillcore>fast forward ... waiting for sea to flood is silly
21:46<Samu>well you're getting the idea, aren't you
21:47<chillcore>ye as I imagined ;)
21:47<Samu>i am terraforming rivers and they're being restored but with a different slope configuration
21:47<Samu>but this is far from finished
21:48<chillcore>what wold be really silly if they were not aligned to slope
21:48<chillcore>so the behavour is correct
21:48<chillcore>^^^ in your patch that is
21:49<Samu>kinda slow trying to level the whole map
21:49<chillcore>can I see your gamesettings
21:49<chillcore>click create new scenario and random land please
21:49<chillcore>just for the smoothness settng and such
21:50<Samu>there it is
21:50<chillcore>no not that ...
21:50<chillcore>random land like you almost did :p
21:51<chillcore>ye there
21:51<chillcore>click random land ...
21:51<Samu>just a min, i'll do that
21:52<chillcore>grabbing some coffee
21:53<Samu>ok i did random land
21:54<chillcore>thx ..
21:54<chillcore>seems like no variation gives and hilly gives best results on small maps better
21:56<Samu>well, apparently this is working nice so far
21:57<chillcore>the thing is with these ever changing rivers ... maybe someone wnted to terraform to build something there?
21:57<Samu>i know :(
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21:58<chillcore>maybe make that a seperate patch and topic on forums
21:59<chillcore>let peeps test and let fedback guide you in what to do
21:59<Samu>i can destroy rivers yet
21:59<Samu>oh wait, i can't lol
22:00<Samu>that 7500 cost wasn't supposed to happen
22:00<chillcore>sure it does ... them blastmasters need to get payed :P
22:02<chillcore>see this is where it gets silly
22:02<chillcore>anyhoo us talking about something peeps can not se here ... kinda silly too :P
22:03<chillcore>hmm I sees them glitches
22:03<chillcore>not good
22:03<chillcore>rivers on steep slopes is "nono"
22:04<Samu>heh, that's the part I need help
22:04<Samu>well, i'm posting the patch, then i'm off to bed
22:04<chillcore>now know where these occasional glistches come from
22:04<chillcore>hmm ...
22:05<chillcore>anyhoo, good night
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>happy eclipse everybody, i have a feeling i will miss it
22:05<chillcore>ooh eclipse when where ?
22:05<Samu>let me quickly create patch
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>partial eclipse in europe ca. 8-11 UTC
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>or full eclipse if you happen to be on the Färöer
22:06<Samu>there, now I gotta run
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22:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm, next full eclipse in germany is 2081. i'll be 100 then...
22:08<chillcore>ah ok ... way to cloudy
22:09<chillcore>I'll be 107 ... maybe we can meet up then and talk about ye olde days eddi
22:09<Eddi|zuHause>they said it might be nice weather over here
22:09<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling that is unlikely to happen :p
22:10<chillcore>ye but you never know what we'll have invented by then
22:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. maybe it's a device that tells me "you made this pact 65 years ago to meet with a random person on the internet that you never met and have barely anything in common" :p
22:13<chillcore>"you are not allowed to pass away and rest in peace before you met these conditions" hehe
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>we have that already. it's called ghosts :p
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22:26-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
22:26<Flygon>Eddi, chillcore
22:26<Flygon>We totally like
22:26<Flygon>Gotta meet
22:26<Flygon>And discuss how awesome I am
22:28<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: if you pay me a ticket to australia :p
22:28<Flygon>We'll go to the planet's other home of VR
22:29<Flygon>I mean, shoot
22:29<Flygon>Even Finland's VR STILL uses Broad Gauge
22:29<Flygon>Narrower than Victoria's VR
22:29<Flygon>But, still!
22:29<Flygon>(VIC uses 1600mm, Finrand uses 1524mm)
22:30-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>there was something about finland using 1520 and russia 1528 (or the other way round) and somewhen they decided "let's call it 1524 and let the error margins handle it"
22:35<Flygon>To be fair
22:35<Flygon>The error margins ARE very wide
22:35<Flygon>Like, in Victoria
22:35<Flygon>The gauge on wooden sleepers goes anywhere from 1575mm to 1835mmish
22:35<Flygon>Concrete is FAR more tight, around 1595mm to 1805mm
22:35<Flygon>But still very tight
22:36<Flygon>These're off the top of my head, so I'm probably a bit off
22:36<Flygon>But it's still well inside the acceptable error margin
22:36<Flygon>Keeping in mind said concrete sleepered RFR track would be pretty reliable for 200km/h services
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22:43<Eddi|zuHause>they say the faster the track goes, the wider it must be
22:49<supermop>just applied to do my own job over elance
22:52<Eddi|zuHause>to see whether your boss would hire a replacement for you?
22:52<supermop>no, as i'll being moving back to the us before too long this was his idea for having me work remotely
23:32<chillcore>hmm this terrain kinda keep shooting off ... no matter what I try
23:33-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:33<chillcore>I'll have to check my patchpack to see what kind off "details" were conveniently dismissed for the sake of going faster
23:45<chillcore>so sad this industries mentallity ... "we don't care how broken it is it has to be shipped yesterday"
23:45<chillcore>thank god openttd is not like that
23:50-!-shirish_ [~quassel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:52<chillcore>hm balls to it ... messing with magic values it is ... alpinist values becomes mountainaus and this coast shaping is getting /64 instead of /16
23:53<chillcore>sorry ic111 ... you can always re-tune if you don't like it ;)
23:55-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
---Logclosed Fri Mar 20 00:00:59 2015