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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-22

---Logopened Sun Mar 22 00:00:02 2015
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03:06*andythenorth forgot that vehicles are capped to 8/8 long :P
03:08<V453000>asdf hy
03:08<V453000>quite an achievement andy :P
03:08<V453000>can hack it though, no?
03:08<@Alberth>/me buys an axe
03:10<andythenorth>V453000: cba
03:10<andythenorth>shorter vehicle ftw
03:11<V453000>its not like it is a lot of work
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03:21<chillcore>goeiemorgen morgen
03:22<chillcore>but today to :P
03:22<chillcore>hello all
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03:56<andythenorth>semver is all well and good
03:56<andythenorth>but what does ‘break API compatibility’ mean in context of a newgrf?
04:02<@Alberth>probably that some parameters change meaning
04:03<@Alberth>which means that any newgrf that use those parameters also change
04:03<@Alberth>and of course, since the change is after release, the newgrf isn't designed to handle that
04:04<@Alberth>hmm, false, that's ABI compatibility
04:04<andythenorth>I was thinking more about when I bump something to 2.x.y
04:04<andythenorth>or whatever
04:04<andythenorth>savegame compatibility is bumped frequently without declaring a major version
04:04<andythenorth>maybe semver doesn’t apply if you’re not a library / don’t have an external API
04:05<@Alberth>right, it thus means that when you compile your newgrf with a new nmlc or grfcodec, the parameters are interpreted differently
04:05<@Alberth>old savegames are converted to the new situation upon load
04:06<@Alberth>and since we preserve old behavior, everything continues to function as originally intended/designed
04:06<@Alberth>obviously, that implies we cannot drop any behaviour
04:07<@Alberth>we can only move or merge behaviour, or add new behaviour
04:07<andythenorth>I was asking purely about when I bump the version of Iron Horse or whatever :)
04:07<andythenorth>but I didn’t frame it quite that way
04:07<@Alberth>quite :)
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04:08<@Alberth>hmm, not sure
04:09<@Alberth>perhaps when you change the set of vehicles (or their stats) sufficiently that people should not see it as a simple upgrade/fix?
04:10*chillcore produced some screenies that Alberth should like better.
04:10<chillcore>please don't let me interrupt the conversation ;)
04:10<@Alberth>ie loading speed fix is not a new version, as the original intention never was instant loading
04:11<@Alberth>thanks chillcore
04:11<@Alberth>the early screenies look more playable :)
04:12<@Alberth>but it's mostly whatever the author considers as breaking the old design, I guess
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04:15<chillcore>yes I guess so alberth, there should be something for everyone in the end
04:15<chillcore>for me OpenTTD has always been and will always be about choices and the freedom to make them
04:16<@Alberth>looks good
04:16<@Alberth>btw coming is written with 1 m :)
04:16<@Alberth>cumming is not, but that has a very different meaning :p
04:17<chillcore>hihi, thanks for the hint
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04:52<supermop>fruit plantation in arctic
04:52<supermop>has pine trees
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04:53<supermop>this brewery is going to be making liquor from pinecones
04:53<supermop>maybe they are tall and pointy juniper bushes, and it will be making gin
05:01<chillcore>hmm 2 parts gin, one part red bacardi, tonic and lemon ... njummie
05:03<chillcore>^^^ recipy from my old bosses wife, don't tell her I gave to to you for free as she sells that stuff now as coctail of the house. :P
05:03<chillcore>s to/it
05:04<supermop>hmm even if i get the plantation to go gung-ho it will only produce enough to fill two container carriers
05:04<supermop>but a two-car train looks silly
05:05<@Alberth>who says 'pine trees' in OpenTTD are like you know them?
05:07<supermop>maybe the production is so low because they just planted a foreset, and then they go gather berries from the bushes beneath the trees
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05:34<chillcore>I feel 18 again ... jump jump jump
05:36<V453000>laym xd the doombox should keep playing even with vocals on :P
05:37<chillcore>ye ... did not want to post too extreme hardcore ;)
05:37<V453000>DUH :D
05:37<chillcore>this is stll kinda tame TBH
05:38<chillcore>I'll post some pics of birdie soon too, got her on cam ... and two blue eggsies
05:39<V453000>wat bird
05:39<chillcore>need to boot windoze to get them off ipad; not uploading from hacked ipad and with geo loc ans stufss
05:41<chillcore>got a male too but he is still shy
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05:54<Wolf01>hi hi
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05:59<@Alberth>hi hi
06:04<GriffinOneTwo>which server can you make pinetrees into liquor?
06:04<GriffinOneTwo>or grf for that matter
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06:27<@Alberth>FIRS has a brewery, and ECS has one too iirc
06:33<@Alberth>is git grep really just grep with some small additions?
06:38<@Alberth>argh, bloody useless git tools
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06:46<chillcore>g(h)it them with a hammer :)
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06:48<@Alberth>yeah, I would hope people building tools would make them useful :p
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06:52<chillcore>hehe ... you're grepping history? you could have 27000 svn checkouts and ack-grep the folder they reside in :P
06:52<chillcore>on second thought ...
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06:53<@Alberth>thg has a nice annotate mode for browsing
06:53<chillcore>if only it showed everything
06:54<@Alberth>for now, I still have to find a git tool that shows anything
06:54*chillcore is very happy with ack-grep ... thx for suggesting
06:54<@Alberth>it sucks at history browsing :p
06:54<chillcore>before I only used docs and my instinct to find stuffs
06:55<@Alberth>great brain exercise :)
06:55<chillcore>ye and you see lots of little things you did not search for but are still nce to know
06:56<chillcore>but slow method is slow
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07:12<frosch123>Alberth: did we consider the idea to add a "English (proofread)" language to eints?
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07:12<@Alberth>not that I am aware of
07:19*chillcore retros
07:19<chillcore>fisrt song should be "alice in wonderland"?
07:19<chillcore>been looking for that for a long time ...
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07:21<@peter1138>Sounds terrible.
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07:21<chillcore>ye crackles it seems woopsie
07:22<chillcore>crackles is retro too :P
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07:26<Wolf01>just found a "he's" in place of "his" browsing the interwebz... bah, it looks worse than their => they're
07:27<chillcore>in some languages it is like that ... i makke that mistake often
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07:28<frosch123>Alberth: :)
07:29<chillcore>wolf: how do you write that correctly? ... or do you always write his in full?
07:29<Wolf01>here people very often forget that "o" (subjunctive/disjuntive) and "ho" (verb, possession) are different
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07:30<Wolf01>I always write "his/her/its" for possession
07:30<chillcore>k then there is no room for error indeed
07:33<@peter1138>"<name> his" instead of "<name>'s" is a weird one that .nl people do
07:34<Wolf01>I use 's only on names, in all other cases it mean "is" for me
07:34<frosch123>it's funny, because the same construct exists in bad/uneducated german
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07:35<@Alberth>frosch123: don't like the 'non-commit' part, it means eints gets project state of its own
07:35<frosch123>"Der Dativ is dem Genitiv sein Tod."
07:35<frosch123>Alberth: technically it already has :p
07:36<frosch123>i.e. the string history
07:36<chillcore>ye we are though that way ... "chillcore's" instead of "chillcore zijn"
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: i took a look at the images. i think the roughness is about right now
07:37<chillcore>nice to know thanks for the feedback, much appreciated ;)
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: as for the "alpinist", i'd expect more pointy hilltops, and extensive strings of valleys. not sure how that is possible with perlin noise
07:38<chillcore>they are pointy enough really ... from time to time I still get unplayable maps
07:38*Wolf01 ^^^ wants it too
07:38<@peter1138>I had pointy valleys with my landscape generator!
07:38<chillcore>if you disable variation eddi ..
07:38<@peter1138>Variation smells.
07:38<chillcore>it varies too much yes
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>i always use variation
07:39<chillcore>ye but as peter points out ... needs tuning there
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>meaning the 5 times i actually played the game since the feature was introduced :p
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>of course peter1138 is discontent with variation. he implemented it :p
07:40<chillcore>rubidium already improved it a bt in trun not so long ago
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07:40<chillcore>he commented that there is rom for improvment still in the source
07:40<@peter1138>It can be improved by ripping it out.
07:41<@peter1138>Then replacing it multiple perlin runs.
07:41<chillcore>could yes
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>i always thought we need a tectonics map generator
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07:42<chillcore>I have nine perlin params + scale
07:42<@peter1138>Using abs() on perlin gives you sharp valleys.
07:42<chillcore>from before variation was added, and tune with it off TBH
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>perlin has the problem that on large scale, it looks very very uniform
07:42<@peter1138>Multiplying perlins together gives you variety.
07:43<chillcore>ye momentarily it is a bit too squary too eddi
07:43<@peter1138>That's partly due to our perlin algorithm.
07:43<chillcore>I'll try and tackle thatafter I have my light version for 1.5
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's not something you fix in a few days :p
07:43<@peter1138>It's fast but can't do nice smoothing.
07:44<chillcore>for now I'll be really happy if peeps get playable maps in stable
07:44<chillcore>512** is giving me some probs
07:44<chillcore>can't decide if it should be considered small large map or another seperate array
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>make intermediate
07:45<@peter1138>It's large.
07:45<chillcore>I can do small and large but 512 ... always turn out wrong either way
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like 512 should be the standard size
07:46<@peter1138>Sadly, "proper" perlin vs our perlin is orders of magnitude slower.
07:46<chillcore>hmm ...
07:47<chillcore>it is kinda out of my league
07:47<chillcore>the code behind that is
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07:47<Wolf01>make it like 2x256
07:47<@peter1138>I never got around to trying to understand that javascript tectonic simulator.
07:48<chillcore>hehe wolf
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07:50<chillcore>wolf: the number of perlin params 'used' is dependant on smallest mapsize
07:50<chillcore>128 * 128 is kinda the same in terms of result as 102 4* 128
07:50<chillcore>not kinda it is
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07:50<chillcore>just that there s more room for smoothing it out
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07:51<Wolf01>I suspected that, but I never tried the same seed with different map sizes, only grayscale maps
07:52<chillcore>making it depend on largest mapside yields interesting results but not very good in general
07:52<chillcore>especially when you have water borders on
07:53<chillcore>^^^ which adds another layer of compexity and also makes more pinty terrain
07:53<chillcore>complexity and pointy*
07:54<chillcore>I should not have taken of this keyboard of laptop to clean dust ... shoud remove and put it back in a non bent way :P
07:54<chillcore>that and cookies
07:55<Wolf01>and lunch
07:55<chillcore>and coffee
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07:56<chillcore>why do they build these things in such a stupid way anyways
07:56<chillcore>can not remove innerworks wthout removing keyboard
07:57<chillcore>need to replace my jacked jack too ...
07:57<@Rubidium>with my laptop you can't remove the keyboard without removing the innerworks
07:58<chillcore>same here but keyboard is glued and ... oh well
07:58<chillcore>should replace laptop but moneyz ...
07:59<chillcore>maybe next year or so
08:00<chillcore>perhaps I could sell minecraft mods :P
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08:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27201 /trunk/src/lang (english_US.txt latin.txt) (2015-03-21 18:45:26 +0100 )
08:03<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
08:03<@DorpsGek>english_US - 4 changes by Supercheese
08:03<@DorpsGek>latin - 4 changes by Supercheese
08:03<TrueBrain>ty DorpsGek
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08:05<TrueBrain>cycling our frontend web proxy, expect some minor downtime of :)
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08:06<chillcore>but people just started reporting it worked ... one after another XD
08:06<TrueBrain>something something OpenSSL leaks something
08:07<chillcore>freak vuln?
08:07<chillcore>or the previous one still?
08:07<@peter1138>Constant supply of vulnerabilities, I think :p
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08:08<TrueBrain>the 19th they released ... 10 CVEs?
08:08<TrueBrain>it was their release day or something
08:08<chillcore>only solution is re-doing interwebz
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08:09<chillcore>Truebrain I think it is more a case of keeping things silent untill no longer possible
08:09*chillcore keeps quit about that phonecall to apple I made last month
08:09<TrueBrain>security by obscurity \o/
08:10<TrueBrain>that has served us SO WELL in the past
08:10<TrueBrain>something @kick something wrong channel
08:10<chillcore>True the baddies already know for a very long time
08:10<chillcore>me is not baddie but ...
08:11<chillcore>I hate devs that abuse stuff I inform them about
08:11<chillcore>BIG NAME or not Mr. molyneux
08:12<chillcore>anyhoo ... later more details when I get permission to disclose
08:13<chillcore>apple cares at least ... steam does not :/
08:13<chillcore>perln noise ... yay
08:14<TrueBrain>we found a way to crash any ipad visiting a website; always, repeatable, on all types
08:14<TrueBrain>reported it
08:14<TrueBrain>for 6+ months now
08:14<chillcore>hehe ...
08:14<TrueBrain>what can I say ...
08:15<@peter1138>Bah my phone is so fricking slow now :S
08:15<chillcore>this one is worse ... abuse comes from genuine devs
08:15<chillcore>not users
08:15<TrueBrain>security is overrated; just ditch is, and share all your info with everyone
08:15<TrueBrain>solves all these issues
08:15<TrueBrain>if anyone can wire money from any account
08:15<TrueBrain>nobody would try to steal from you anymore :)
08:15<chillcore>yep same as with DRM
08:16<TrueBrain>*watches StarTrek again, just because he feels like it*
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>star trek 8 is the best
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08:18<chillcore>but in regards of info ... I just don't spread it voluntarily
08:18<chillcore>can be found but needs digging a lot
08:19<TrueBrain>5 ingame euros?
08:20<chillcore>eg. apple and MS asked my name and I said nope you don't need it for this
08:20<chillcore>ticket has my e-mail adress and that is it
08:20<TrueBrain>all they need is 1 call to the NSA :P
08:20<TrueBrain>*Trolls happily*
08:20<chillcore>take it or leave it
08:20<chillcore>then they need to contact my ISP
08:21<chillcore>I have no prob with that
08:21<chillcore>national security is national securtiy ... no matter the country
08:21<chillcore>not just NSA
08:21<TrueBrain>my troll was that they dont need to contact your ISP :P
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>in my country they called it "Stasi"
08:22<chillcore>BOB here
08:22<chillcore>k truebrain
08:22<chillcore>*trolls back later* :P
08:22<TrueBrain>I imagine they have something like
08:22<TrueBrain>where you can google for all kinds of private information about people
08:23<chillcore>ye they get a free pass into databases
08:23<chillcore>cause asking each time is to cumbersome
08:23<chillcore>ofcourse noone knows that and they certainly do not check on americans :P
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>google knows everything.
08:24<chillcore>I can not check google is on my blacklist
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: how does that even matter, since none of us are amaricans?
08:24<chillcore>just that they tell americans that
08:25<chillcore>"we check on the whole world ... but not on you ... except when you talk to a non-american"
08:25<chillcore>just too funnny for words
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>the german government's reaction was weird as hell...
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>"we don't care that you spy on all germans"
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>"wait, with 'all germans' you meant INCLUDING THE CHANCELLOR?!?"
08:28<chillcore>BOB their reaction is fine ... "yes we keep records on you ... no we will not tell if we have a dossier on you personally"
08:28<chillcore>and ye eddi
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08:38*chillcore tunes
08:39<chillcore>22nd so plenty of time left :P
08:39<chillcore>code is up for review if desired btw
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09:24<chillcore>hmm would it be feasable to have a button/message box to mark seeds as no good just after generating maps?
09:24<chillcore>as in you generate a map and OpenTTD asks if the map is any good
09:25<@Alberth>for the purpose of ...?
09:25<chillcore>but then again some troll will just mark them all as no good is stored somewhere
09:25<chillcore>some seeds are just shitty
09:25<chillcore>there is int32 of them
09:26<chillcore>re-generating the map is it is now works
09:26<chillcore>s is/as
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09:26<chillcore> was thinking somethng like a central repo with a list that feeds into trunk
09:26<chillcore>not directly ofcourse
09:27<chillcore>but say you as player choose to participate in testing/tuning
09:27<@Alberth>@calc 2**(32-3)
09:27<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 536870912
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09:28<@Alberth>1 mere 537MB bits
09:28<chillcore>ah like that
09:28<frosch123>chillcore: the meaning of a seed changes with a dozen of settings and ottd versions
09:28<chillcore>it does?
09:28<chillcore>hmm ...
09:28<frosch123>a hilly map will look different to flat map, even when using the same seed :)
09:28<@Alberth>assuming you can agree on the concept of 'good seed' (or 'bad seed') for that matter
09:29<frosch123>changing the map size will also make it look different
09:29<frosch123>changing certain advanced settings will also affect it
09:29<chillcore>shit map is shit map ... but indeed the setting can make it better
09:29<frosch123>like water/land borders
09:29<chillcore>bad idea nvm
09:29<frosch123>just add a map preview :)
09:30<chillcore>just he sais ...
09:30<frosch123>worms 2 presented you with 5 map previews, and then you picked one of them, or discarded them all
09:30<chillcore>hmm that may seem a good idea yes
09:32<chillcore>but not something I can pull out of my hat in a sec
09:33<chillcore>I has hats but never wear em
09:33<chillcore>I should to cover my ever growing bald spot (that is not there I swear)
09:34<chillcore>I told peeps to shoot me if I start to comb my hair over sideways
09:35<chillcore>me has long hair still so that helps a bit
09:35<chillcore>still not sideways xD
09:35<frosch123>i used to wear headbands in winter, but had to switch to complete caps eventually :p
09:36<chillcore>norlmally I drive bikes all the time so helmet
09:37<chillcore>still cold-ish when on foot in winter
09:38<chillcore>the strange thing is that it is 99% of the time 512 maps that do it
09:38<chillcore>squarry low maps that just do not lookk good
09:39<chillcore>maybe something happens with that in terms of params
09:40<chillcore>it is like they do not want to generate like 256** nor 1024**
09:40<chillcore>and then other times it is fine
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09:43<chillcore>don't know with what to compare it
09:43<chillcore>bit like 'rallenti' on an engine
09:43<chillcore>if thta is a word even
09:44<chillcore>set it to low or to high and then engine still runs
09:44<chillcore>but there is this sweet spot where an engine does not know what to do ... turn too fast or to slow
09:44<chillcore>and then sometimes you get a runaway
09:44<chillcore>that makes sense?
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09:49<chillcore>maybe I should just go ahead and give 512** its own array
09:49<chillcore>yay maintenance
09:50<@Alberth>generate a bigger map, and just a part?
09:50<chillcore>it alreaydy does that kinda? or not?
09:51<chillcore>but yeah that could be a solution
09:51<chillcore>pretend that the smallest mapside is 1024 if it is actually 512
09:52<chillcore>but maps do not have to be square
09:52<@Alberth>3 more maps just for free :p
09:52<chillcore>hehe ... it is a feature that has been asked for ... ingame enlargment of maps
09:52<chillcore>can of worms
09:53<@Alberth>useless imho
09:53<chillcore>not really
09:53<@Alberth>better make a scenario or a script that gives you more room
09:53<chillcore>first fill 256 *256 and if full at that to one side
09:54<chillcore>just that tile nummbering and distance from border
09:54<chillcore>and and and
09:54<chillcore>bad bad idea
09:54<chillcore>s at/add
09:55<@Alberth>obviously you can do it by always having a 4096x4096 map, where you keep track of the size actually used
09:56<chillcore>great zethusky on last page of android port ... "check my youtube channel"
09:56<chillcore>whadda you know another referal cookie
09:56<chillcore>yeah that would be an option
09:57<chillcore>we have to abandon support for all olders ystems then
09:58<chillcore>that map is +-700MB in memory?
09:58<chillcore>without anything on it
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09:59<Samu>ops, i closed this window
09:59<@Alberth>well, it doesn't matter if there is stuff on it or not, you already have all the bits reserved :p
09:59<chillcore>not vehicles
09:59<chillcore>but yeah
10:00<@Alberth>I am fine with 1024x1024 as max size too :)
10:00<chillcore>big enough for me too :)
10:01<chillcore>more then big enough
10:01<chillcore>can we forbid images with hidden links in them on tt-forums?
10:02<chillcore>why can peeps not just post normal youtube links
10:02<chillcore>instead of that stupid spyware shit
10:03<chillcore>that is the same method they steal them steam accounts
10:03<chillcore>look at pick and it is too late
10:04<chillcore>ofccourse if it is companies doing it is fine ... damned
10:04<chillcore>double standards
10:04<chillcore>perlin noise .... think happy thoughts ...
10:09<chillcore>it even marked in logs as "refurl: tt-forums/topiclala youtube/v/string"
10:10<chillcore>other wordings but yeah
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10:13*chillcore ponders just straight up telling "Yow dude your signature has spyware"
10:14<chillcore>me smokes sig while watching birdie
10:20-!-crabster [~mccrabbym@] has joined #openttd
10:21<chillcore>the ssad part about this BS ... browsing youtube itself does not give refcookies
10:21<chillcore>noone would go there anymore
10:21<chillcore>*ranting mode off*
10:24<chillcore>Albert: if I would try and generate abigger map and take a cutout ... how do I deal with mapedges and such if they are supposed to be water according to settings ...
10:24<chillcore>seems to cause more troubs then it solves
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10:42<Samu>i'm wondering what will I do next
10:46<chillcore>something you can manage :P
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10:46<chillcore>without someone else moving code for you mean ;)
10:46-!-Samu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:47<chillcore>deleting them canal tiles automatically when removing locks?
10:47<chillcore>is still in line of what you were doing ...
10:47<Samu_>is that good idea?
10:47<chillcore>for me yes
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10:48<chillcore>if lock was build on bare land that is
10:48<Samu_>how would I guess that?
10:48<chillcore>but you got that covered already
10:48<chillcore>if it was river it restores river?
10:48<chillcore>or still canal tiles?
10:48<chillcore>I have not checked
10:49<chillcore>but yeah, again to me, the upper and lower tiles is part of lock
10:49<Samu_>i didn't change lock code regarding that
10:49<chillcore>deleting lock means deleting all of it?
10:50<chillcore>I do not have your patch applied at the moment so can not immediatly test
10:50<Samu_>building lock on river doesn't set any flag
10:51<Samu_>let me make sure what's really happening in code
10:51<chillcore>I mean what happens when you delete lock from river. does it leave canal tiles or just rive again?
10:51<chillcore>you can test that ingame
10:52<chillcore>you can do whatever ofcourse
10:55<Samu_>ah, it retains the waterclass
10:55<Samu_>static inline void MakeLock(TileIndex t, Owner o, DiagDirection d, WaterClass wc_lower, WaterClass wc_upper, WaterClass wc_middle)
10:55<Samu_>* @param wc_lower Original water class of the lower part.
10:56<Samu_>@param wc_upper Original water class of the upper part.
10:56<Samu_>* @param wc_middle Original water class of the middle part.
10:56<chillcore>no need to paste all that samu
10:57<chillcore>"ah it retains the waterclass" if peeps need the rest they will ask ;)
10:57<chillcore>but cool you found the code
10:58<Samu_>for the middle tile it is doing this check, WaterClass wc_middle = IsWaterTile(tile) ? GetWaterClass(tile) : WATER_CLASS_CANAL;
10:58<chillcore>k ...
10:58<Samu_>interesting magic
10:59<Samu_>it doesn't even make use of a byte
10:59<Samu_>oops, bit
10:59<Samu_>just tells me how much I suck at logic
11:01<@Alberth>no idea of the scale though
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11:08<Samu_>well, for adding canal tiles if they're missing, that seems fine
11:08<Samu_>auto-removing canals is, however... gonna be tricky
11:09<Samu_>how could i make the game "guess" if there was a canal there
11:09<Samu_>to decide if it removes it or not
11:09<chillcore>hmm why would you?
11:10<chillcore>when deleting canal destroy uppur an lower tile
11:10<Samu_>what if there were canals there already
11:10<Samu_>at those 2 tiles
11:10<chillcore>your other patch shoud restore the river if there was river?
11:11<chillcore>ye them two ... don't make it more complicated as needed ;)
11:11<Samu_>what if the canals aren't mine
11:11<chillcore>then you do not get to destroy the lock?
11:12<chillcore>can you even build loc on canals that are not yours?
11:12<chillcore>hmm ok
11:13<Samu_>it's a nice feature isn't it?
11:13<chillcore>and what happens then on removal ? middle tile still gets destroyed still
11:13<chillcore>no it is not really
11:13<chillcore>again to me
11:13<Samu_>upper and lower tiles can be of any owner
11:14<chillcore>on roads you gave a setting to allow bus/truck stops or not frpm cometitors
11:14<Samu_>middle tile owner is the real lock owner
11:14<chillcore>ye that I know
11:15<Samu_>middle tiles also dictates the owner of the lock part at the upper/lower tiles, but the canal under it may have other owner, it's something tricky going on
11:15<chillcore>I have no idea
11:15<Samu_>don't know if im explaining myself correctly
11:15<chillcore>I get it
11:16<Samu_>the tile that tells who actually owns the lock is the middle tile
11:16<chillcore>I did read that code once but not for that
11:16<chillcore>huhu I said I know ;)
11:16<chillcore>6 lines back, 7 now
11:18<chillcore>if it is too complicated leave it be ...
11:18<chillcore>good for later then
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11:18<Samu_>i like the feature though
11:18<chillcore>then don't touch it
11:19<Samu_>i mean, the feature of being able to have the upper and lower parts of a lock placed on canals owned by competitors
11:19<chillcore>in that case you say "I like it too much, if you really want it ... it is open source be my guest"
11:20<Samu_>the topic was created precisely because of this
11:20<chillcore>k no prob
11:20<Samu_>to expand the feature for the other water-based structures
11:20<Samu_>ship depots/docks
11:20<Samu_>but so far I dunno how i could achieve that
11:20<chillcore>1 thing at a time
11:21<chillcore>look at the other code where it is already possible
11:22<Samu_>I thought storing two owners was the answer
11:22<Samu_>now that I lock at the lock code, it's not storing two owners
11:23<Samu_>I look at the lock code*
11:23<chillcore>* means typo
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>well... that was to be expected... i leave the room for 5 seconds, and the cat sits in my spot...
11:25<chillcore>nice and warm
11:29<Samu_>are there "virtual" tiles?
11:30<chillcore>void tiles at map border
11:30<chillcore>not sure what else you mean
11:32<Samu_>lock tile - delta points to middle tile for lock owner, but also for itself for canal owner
11:32<Samu_>lock tile + delta points to middle tile for lock owner, but also for itself for canal owner
11:32<Samu_>lock tile tells the other 2 tiles who owns the lock
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a terrible idea
11:32<Samu_>ship depot only have 2 tiles though :(
11:33<Samu_>there is no middle tile, I thought of a "virtual" tile to indicate the ship depot owner instead, but hmm... i dunno
11:36<Samu_>dock, hm...
11:36<Samu_>one tile is at land, the other at sea
11:36<Samu_>erm, water*
11:37<chillcore>and must be the correct slope too
11:37<Samu_>i think i can do what's currently happening to locks and apply to docks
11:37<Samu_>i may leave ship depots for later
11:38<Samu_>okay, gonna try editing docks, brb
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12:22<DanMacK>Hey hey
12:23<Samu>my net is intermitent today
12:25<__ln__>who has not played Cities: Skylines yet?
12:25<@Alberth>/me raises hand
12:25*Eddi|zuHause as well
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>i did put it on my steam wishlist, though
12:25-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:30*chillcore put hands in the air and waves like he don't care
12:30<chillcore>they sell it somwhere else?
12:33<chillcore>like in a store, on a disc that works offline?
12:34<@Alberth>offline? what's that?
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>you can just run steam in offline mode, you know?
12:35<chillcore>I know ... 20% of games
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>most games only require you to be online once
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>at least most games i have
12:35<chillcore>tough for them, proppelerhead misses out on 500 euros too
12:36<chillcore>but I get your drift
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>if you stay away from origin crap and stuff
12:36<chillcore>origin works fine offline all games I have
12:36<chillcore>not that many
12:36<chillcore>steam for the most part too ... still
12:37<@Alberth>I think it's a big market
12:37<chillcore>no offline is no sale
12:37<@Alberth>xbox lives off online stuff afaik
12:38<chillcore>xbox games work fine ... just do not connect
12:38<@Alberth>oh, I am wrong thus :)
12:38<@Alberth>k, good to know
12:38<chillcore>xbone may be something else I don't know
12:39<chillcore>but 360 just fine
12:39<@Alberth>online stuff is more in the media, I guess
12:40<chillcore>true and bigger sales and tracking and microtransctions and push notifications and automatic updates
12:40<chillcore>^^^ this no more for me
12:41-!-oskari892 [] has joined #openttd
12:42<chillcore>consoles for the win
12:42<chillcore>and openttd ofcourse xD
12:48-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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12:49<chillcore>but setam does offer refunds to eurpope now
12:49<chillcore>I might buy it and ask refund just to piss em off :P
12:50<chillcore>hmm but then my money is in wallet ... going to wait a few more months
12:52-!-JayMayer [~JayMayer@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:53<chillcore>besides they still own me HL2 ep 2 ... payed for never received it
12:53<chillcore>because I already had it
12:54<chillcore>stupid reason ... they could have let me give it away
12:55<chillcore>offline cds don't do that ... I have multipke games two or three times
12:55<Samu>yay, looks like I did it
12:56<Samu>now have to take care of water maintenance ownership
12:56<Samu>canal* maintenance
12:56<chillcore>in regatds of?
12:57<Samu>docks can be built on canals owned by opponent
12:57<chillcore>so now you can block other peeps ... make it SP only please
12:57-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
12:58<chillcore>or a switch for the server owner to decide
12:59<chillcore>but congrats you did it
12:59<Samu>do the same thing
12:59<Samu>and they don't have a setting
12:59<chillcore>ships can still pass
12:59<chillcore>it water
13:02<chillcore>with raods too ... if server allows it you can build on competitior roads
13:02<chillcore>you can stop your vehicles there but if vehicles wait for too long they clip through anyway
13:04<chillcore>you could do that later if you prefer dong something else first
13:04<chillcore>was just a suggestion
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13:08*chillcore looks for gameplay vid of city skylines to see what all this commotion is about
13:14<Samu>i just blocekd with a lock
13:14<chillcore>1st 2 seconds I see window with "new DLC available now on steam"
13:14*chillcore closes window
13:16<chillcore>ye that is why it needs a swich samu
13:16<frosch123>should we add such message to ottd?
13:16<chillcore>I'll fork and be gone
13:16<frosch123>"50 new files available in content download"
13:16<chillcore>no thanks
13:16<frosch123>or should we reverse it?
13:16<frosch123>you cannot download stuff if you downloaded more than 50% of it
13:17<chillcore>if there is a button where you choose to see such stuffs fine
13:17<chillcore>if it is in your face when you start the game ... meh
13:18<chillcore>but that is just me
13:20<chillcore>if NewGRFs were to autoupdate like steam does a lot of players would have broken games now
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but content download is more like steam workshop, not actual DLC?
13:20<chillcore>remember what 'that' user did when he left
13:21<Samu>griefing lock!770&authkey=!AIdV1gspfQd9DQc&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
13:21<chillcore>and for what
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: but you got that backwards. if there was infrastructure to autoupdate newgrfs, newgrfs would be made more backwards compatible
13:22<chillcore>someone used the wrong nr in his own grf by misstake
13:22<chillcore>true eddi
13:22<chillcore>problem is when an update breaks your game ... what then
13:23<chillcore>you can not revert because autoupdate
13:23<chillcore>I once uploaded two screenshots to steam
13:23<chillcore>impossible to remove them from my HDD
13:23<chillcore>even if no longer available on steam
13:23<Samu>I don't know what to do now
13:23<chillcore>they keep comming back in my userfolder
13:23<chillcore>has been two years now
13:24<Samu>you could already grief with locks
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think you're just missing the right function to remove them off "the cloud"
13:24<chillcore>I deleted them in the client
13:24<chillcore>then in my folder
13:25<chillcore>I move to other pc tadaa
13:25<chillcore>damn I am ranty today
13:29<chillcore>ye samu you could aways ... that is why there should not be more ways added if possible
13:30<Samu>docks at least are removed when bankrupting a company
13:30<Samu>locks are not
13:31<Samu>that special setting you talked about, i wonder how can that be done
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13:32<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
13:32<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 24 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <andythenorth> but I didn’t frame it quite that way
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13:33<chillcore>settings ini, and then some
13:35<chillcore>hmm let me check if I have some smallish patch or can find a commit that adds as setting and nothing more
13:35<chillcore>the line thickness for graphs ... that is just that
13:36<chillcore>let me check what revision that was
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13:41<Samu>there's a setting for road stations
13:41-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
13:41<Samu>could I re-use that setting?
13:41*andythenorth proposes Score Scripts
13:41<Samu>let me find it
13:42<andythenorth>with interface based on standard items, like ‘experience points’, ‘level up’, ‘daily challenge’ etc
13:42<@Alberth>means nothing to me, but fair enough
13:43<andythenorth>gamescripts could issue events, which bubble to the scorescript
13:43<andythenorth>or to newgrfs
13:43<frosch123>challenge of the day: configure firs to use basic economy
13:43<andythenorth>newgrfs could also issue the same events
13:43<Samu>"Allow drive-through road stops on roads owned by competitors"
13:43<andythenorth>scorescript could also respond to event bubbling by bubbling new events
13:43<Samu>this setting, can i reuse this for docks and apparently locks?
13:43<andythenorth>we would need an event queue, event dispatcher, and event factories
13:43<andythenorth>and we’d need a score clearing house singleton
13:43<Samu>or is it better to create a whole new setting?
13:44<andythenorth>to arbitrate which score is applied
13:44<chillcore>no that one is fine
13:44<andythenorth>we’d also need it to be fully-playable configurable
13:44<andythenorth>player *
13:44<@Alberth>a bubble queue, bubble dispatcher, and a bubble factory, hmm
13:45<andythenorth>but players shouldn’t *have* to configure, it should use heuristics to auto-adapt to map, etc
13:45<andythenorth>configuration is just for experts who want a specific play style
13:45<@Alberth>that;s easy, just try all scores, and pick the highest one
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27202 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt korean.txt) (2015-03-22 18:45:30 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
13:45<andythenorth>I like that heuristic
13:45<chillcore>samu: after you get it working maybe adjust the string too in lang file
13:45<andythenorth>we’d also need a levelling / normalisation function
13:46<andythenorth>because players need to be able to compare against the performance of other players
13:46<andythenorth>who might be playing a totally different map, GS, etc
13:46<@Alberth>we need something with several dimensions
13:46<andythenorth>there are probably some useful universal metrics
13:46<andythenorth>but these should all be optional / configurable
13:46<@Alberth>laid out in an octagon
13:47<andythenorth>the normalised benchmarks should still be tweakable by players
13:47<andythenorth>there’s no reason to force the centralised universal reference point to be the same for everyone
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13:48<@Alberth>of course it should be distributed, you could disagree with the central one
13:49<andythenorth>or you might not be winning on the centralised one
13:49<@Alberth>maybe have a configuration for each reference
13:49<andythenorth>if you change it you might win
13:49<@Alberth>it needs likes too, how else would you know which one to use?
13:50<andythenorth>star ratings
13:50<andythenorth>in fact, there should be a meta-score
13:50<andythenorth>which scores the score scripts
13:50<@Alberth>people should post the save game at tt-forums, so other can check
13:51<@Alberth>sounds spiffy
13:52<chillcore>hehe ... and a voice that mocks you if you are just one point under the highest score
13:53<@Alberth>"almost.... hope you have better luck next time!"
13:54<andythenorth>actually we should make a smarter heuristic
13:54<andythenorth>at the beginning of the game ask “how long do you want to play for"
13:54<andythenorth>player puts in 120 minutes or whatever
13:54<chillcore>"buy extra points now, valid till yesterday"
13:55<@Alberth>nah, bubbles rather than points
13:55<andythenorth>at 120:00 we run a random choice: “You win” (0.66), “You lose” (0.33)
13:55<chillcore>hmm someone might sue you if you make em pink
13:56<@Alberth>triangular bubbles would work
13:56<@Alberth>oh, octagon ones of course, so it fits nicely with the score
13:56<andythenorth>better idea again
13:56<andythenorth>score rises from 0% to 99% over time
13:57<andythenorth>at 99% we put up a message
13:57<andythenorth>“Do you want to win? Winning costs €5"
13:57<andythenorth>lots of players would consider 99% good enough
13:58<chillcore>if yo click no you have to pay 10 :P
13:58<chillcore>but that is shown afterwards
13:58<andythenorth>we’re only out to money farm the players who really must have 100%
13:58<andythenorth>pay to win, not pay to play
13:59<chillcore>pay to play is outdated
13:59<andythenorth>just farm the idiots
13:59<andythenorth>on iOS, pay to play seems to be default :P
13:59<chillcore>if only that were true
13:59<andythenorth>having a game that is clearly marked ‘Free’ on the app store
13:59<andythenorth>but you can only play so many rounds before you’re out of credit
13:59<chillcore>not anymore andy
14:00<chillcore>nowi it is get ... I had a b it of a rant last year about that
14:00<chillcore>they changed it
14:00<chillcore>thanks apple
14:00<chillcore>still same shit but yeh
14:01<chillcore>me checks on steam ...
14:01<chillcore>still free to play ;(
14:01<chillcore>anyhoo openttd
14:02<chillcore>should we have an autocorrect feature too?
14:02<chillcore>"you did not want to do that"
14:03<chillcore>just highlight buttons
14:03<chillcore>click here
14:03<andythenorth>I keep thinking about a ‘win’ button
14:03<andythenorth>but you don’t just get to press it
14:03<andythenorth>you have to do extensive cost-benefit, evaluate different strategies etc
14:04<andythenorth>there could be a whole wiki about how to press it
14:04<andythenorth>people could analyse that the button scale is wrong
14:04<andythenorth>and that the button is unrealistic
14:04<andythenorth>or has the wrong font size
14:05<andythenorth>or that it’s boring being able to push it, you should be able to pull it
14:05<andythenorth>or that instead of the button, you should press anything except the button
14:08<chillcore>but yeah score based on what ...
14:10<frosch123>anyone knows about that ufo next to the moon? :p
14:10*Rubidium doubts an UFO can exist anywhere near the moon
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14:12<andythenorth>chillcore: easy
14:12<andythenorth>if you click ‘win’ you score 100%
14:12<andythenorth>if you don’t, you score 0%
14:12<chillcore>makes sense
14:20<frosch123>i have no idea what i am seeing though :p
14:20<frosch123>it's stationary, so neither a plane nor the iss
14:20<frosch123>and it's not dark enough to see stars
14:22<chillcore>geo-stationary satelites are too far away to see right?
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14:25<frosch123>hmm, are planets big enough to be seen like that?
14:26<frosch123>ah, indeed, venus position matches
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14:36<frosch123>too bad pm is on vacation, i guess he would have known it straight up :)
14:38<andythenorth>maybe he’s gone there :P
14:38<andythenorth>if anybody would fix the offsets in my grfs
14:38<andythenorth>I would be honestly grateful
14:38<andythenorth>I just can’t get them right
14:39<andythenorth>I move one vehicle, another is wrong
14:39<andythenorth>chasing my own tail
14:41<frosch123>randomise them
14:41<frosch123>then each position is correct somewhen
14:42*chillcore is lmost done with small maps ... just this 512 still ...
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14:45<Samu>counting station tiles
14:45<Samu>is screwed for savegames
14:45<Samu>any tips?
14:45<Samu>I'm looking at company_sl.cpp
14:46<chillcore>everything is screwed ....
14:46<chillcore>whatever you look at :P
14:46<chillcore>for you that is samu
14:46<chillcore>what is wrong now?
14:47<Samu>save game, load it back, kaboom, wrong counting of maintenance.station tiles
14:48<Samu>docks apparently only take 1 tile now
14:48<Samu>but they're still to be counted as 2 station parts
14:49<Samu> if (c != NULL && GetStationType(tile) != STATION_AIRPORT && !IsBuoy(tile)) c->infrastructure.station++;
14:50<Samu>must deal with docks too
14:50<Samu>hmm must think
14:50<chillcore>ye and if I had my way at the time a lot more parts had been counted ... 4 doors, 2 side walls, 1 floorplate, pumps etc :P
14:50<chillcore>devs were a bit more sensible nd made it two tiles
14:51<chillcore>in regards of maintenance that is
14:51<Samu>locks take 1 tile too
14:51<Samu>so, no
14:51<chillcore>hmm ye I was talking about locks ... my bad
14:51<chillcore>locks docks all the same lol
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14:52<chillcore>that is because they are two statoin tiles samu
14:52<chillcore>the code needs but one tile to know the position?
14:52<chillcore>the slope it is on
14:53<chillcore>still two tiles
14:53<chillcore>not everything is as at seems
14:54<chillcore>you see height ingame?
14:54<chillcore>it is not there
14:54<chillcore>openttd is a chessboard game flat as pancake
14:54<chillcore>^^^ damn I love saying that
14:54<chillcore>but it is true
14:55<chillcore>it all fake
14:56<chillcore>docks are two tiles but code needs but one
14:56<chillcore>so why store two
14:59<chillcore>multiply cost by 10?
14:59<chillcore>via basocst newgrf?
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15:14<chillcore>Hmm I need to test these changes in my gui version ... on these small maps different seed between games makes too much difference to see properly the smoothness changes
15:20<chillcore>and 512 looks like poo again too ... I will have no choice but to add another array
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15:20<chillcore>it's all in the same place though
15:21<chillcore>for the gui version I will find a way to make the code different enough to have one array or dynamic or something
15:23<chillcore>as I have it now each array has the scale and the last parameters different
15:23<chillcore>all other 8 are the same for all smoothness levels
15:24<chillcore>and it works fine
15:24<chillcore>scaling does a lot
15:25<chillcore>if I do not change this I could write the code a hell of a lot shorter
15:26<chillcore>after 1.5
15:26<@Alberth>trunk is after 1.5 already :p
15:26<chillcore>ye stable release I mean ;)
15:27<chillcore>unless ya'll wanna leave tgen as is untill 1.6?
15:27<chillcore>fine for me but but
15:28<chillcore>I only was gone because of ISP
15:28<chillcore>was just waiting for the comitting to end because I did not get the time to do anything
15:28<chillcore>I was took by surprise
15:30<chillcore>I was happy to see the commit spree and at the same time ...
15:30<chillcore>ic111 should have spoken up
15:30<chillcore>"not ready"
15:31<chillcore>512 array ...
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15:35<chillcore>also I fix tropical forest ... so backport would be much apreciated
15:36<chillcore>not asking though
15:36<chillcore>just saying
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15:56<chillcore>yay this will work
15:56<chillcore>still needs some hospital food treatment (no spices) but yeah
15:57<chillcore>thing is I can do whatever without affecting other mapsizes
15:58<chillcore>so \o/ indeed
15:58<chillcore>maybe in the future I can do the same for all mapsizes
15:58<chillcore>future though
15:59<@Alberth>@calc (14-6)**2
15:59<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 64
15:59<@Alberth>hmm, 64 different arrays then :)
15:59<Samu>i need help on this
16:00<chillcore>could do albert but I was just thinking 7
16:00<@Alberth>'this' is a reference to the current object
16:00<chillcore>and since the middle params can be the same
16:00<chillcore>7 * 3 instead of 7 * 4
16:00<@Alberth>better generate it on the fly
16:00<chillcore>or less even
16:02<chillcore>store it as presets in the custom presets file ;)
16:02<@Alberth>ha :)
16:02<chillcore>the one that is coming in the far futuure
16:02<Samu>if (c != NULL && IsTileType(TileOffsByDiagDir(GetDockDirection(tile)), MP_STATION)) c->infrastructure.station += 2;
16:02<Samu>will this work?
16:03<chillcore>not sure if that will be before or after the preview
16:03<chillcore>and regex
16:03<chillcore>and pointers
16:03<Samu>stupid assertion failed
16:03<chillcore>any order will do as I sux at all equally
16:04<chillcore>eh 1 + 2 = 3
16:04<Samu>i fail, not the assertion, i know
16:04<chillcore>just multiply by 10
16:04<chillcore>1 + 1 = 10
16:05<chillcore>*= ?
16:06<Samu>let me look at how lock is done again, cus i suck
16:07<Samu> if (IsLock(tile) && GetLockPart(tile) == LOCK_PART_MIDDLE)
16:07<Samu>how do I get DockPart?
16:07<Samu>there is no such thing as GetDockPart
16:07<Samu>what can i do
16:07<chillcore>dock is a station?
16:08<chillcore>what kind of infrastructure?
16:08<Samu>1 per tile
16:08<chillcore>rail or road or ...
16:10<Samu>the infrastructure is really station
16:10-!-Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10<chillcore>yes they all are
16:11<chillcore>look in dock gui for clues?
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16:12<Samu>infrastructure for lock is water
16:13<Samu>but this is a dock, its infrastructure is station
16:13<chillcore>is lock a station samu?
16:14<chillcore>what are you asking about now?
16:14<chillcore>dock or lock
16:14<Samu>sec brb
16:17<Samu>maybe I got this line wrong: MakeStation(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d), IsWaterTile(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) ? GetTileOwner (t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) : o, sid, STATION_DOCK, GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART + DiagDirToAxis(d), wc);
16:19<Samu>GetTileOwner is probably t - TileOffsByDiagDir (d)
16:19<Samu>not +
16:19<Samu>or actually t
16:19<Samu>bah, brb
16:19<Samu>so confused with this
16:20<chillcore>you seem to taking the hard way again
16:20<chillcore>step 1 decide what you want to do
16:20<chillcore>step 2 sit back and think
16:21<chillcore>step 3 1 thing at a time
16:21<chillcore>rince repeat
16:21<Samu>okay, then
16:21<Samu>first I removed some code
16:22*chillcore deletes file
16:22<Samu>at station_cmd.cpp, somewhere inside CommandCost CmdBuildDock(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
16:22<chillcore>that does not mean much to me or anyone else samu
16:22<Samu>where it says /* Get the water class of the water tile before it is cleared.*/
16:22<chillcore>stop messing about
16:22<Samu>ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
16:22<chillcore>and decide what you will be doing
16:23<Samu>this line is cleared
16:23<chillcore>to do what?
16:23<Samu>this allows me to build docks on canals owned by competitor
16:23<Samu>i better post patch
16:23<chillcore>I thought you had that done alraedy
16:23<chillcore>no it's fine
16:24<chillcore>what are you doing you alreaydy had that covered no?
16:24<Samu>okay, ignore the saveload thing for now, it's failing anyway
16:24<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> hmm, are planets big enough to be seen like that? <-- so you've never seen venus before?
16:25<chillcore>ye samu but what has that to do with mainenance costs?
16:25<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: likely i have :p
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>(it's also called 'the morning star', or 'the evening star', depending on which side of the sun it is)
16:26<Samu>this part here: MakeWaterKeepingClass(tile2, GetTileOwner(tile2));
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>but as a rule of thumb: bright things near the moon are usually planets
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>often it's jupiter
16:26<Samu>makes it possible to restore ownership
16:26<Samu>of the canal
16:27<Samu>if it was indeed on a canal
16:27<Samu>or even on a sea
16:27<Samu>or river
16:27<Samu>whatever, it retains the owner of the waterpart of the dock, that's what it's doing, instead of setting it to the owner of the dock
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16:28<Samu>therefore, I don't need to account for canal maintenance
16:28<chillcore>I would not know samu I am focussing on my newly created array
16:28<Samu>BUT... i need to account for station maintenance
16:28<Samu>and that's in the saveload thing
16:28<Samu>and I'm failing
16:28<chillcore>after each change I have to test 4 * 5 * x settings
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: anyway, venus is like the third brightest object on the sky, after the sun and the moon. that's why you can see it when it's still fairly bright outside
16:30<chillcore>and for good measure it should be 4 * 5 * 5 * 4 * 2 * 4 * 4 times
16:31<chillcore>but I am taking shortcuts samu, because I can samu
16:31<chillcore>so f yo could be more precise?
16:32<Samu>yeah, sorry, i'm so bad at exposing my ideas,
16:32<Samu>explaining things :(
16:32<Samu>hold on a min
16:32<chillcore>huhu because step 1
16:34<chillcore>thank got we coders have a donkey that drops pre-made code xD
16:34<chillcore>and monkeys that do the testing
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16:35<chillcore>just the elves get costly during the holidays
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>you know that fairy tale with the donkey that shits gold?
16:36<chillcore>huhu I was refering to him
16:36<chillcore>there is a goose too
16:36<chillcore>the giant has it ... bastard
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>there's a club in a bag :p
16:40<chillcore>club in a bag ... hmm it will come to me
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16:43<Eddi|zuHause>you know what's funny about the donkey that shits code?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>that "code" sounds a lot like "kot" (which is a more scientific-esque way to say "shit"
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16:45<frosch123>weird how you went for huhu, while all of haha, hehe, hihi and hoho would work
16:46<chillcore>ye fingers did that not me :/
16:46<Samu>what does break; do?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>it flashes up red lights and stops your car
16:47<frosch123>that's brake
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>i always get those mixed up :p
16:48<chillcore>it breaks the code?
16:48-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>anyway. then it stops working for 10 minutes while it gets coffee and talks to the coworkers
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16:49<chillcore>we must remove all breaks ... openttd is broken
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16:49<Samu>i don't know if i need break; at this part
16:49<chillcore>the car will stop if it breaks so in a way ....
16:50<frosch123>i'll take a break for sleep :)
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>well how would you know whether you need it, if you don't know what it does?
16:50<chillcore>if it breaks good the lights will be blue though
16:50-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:50<Samu>case STATION_DOCK:
16:50<Samu>if (IsDockTile(tile) && !HasTileWaterGround(tile)) {
16:51<Samu>if (c != NULL) c->infrastructure.station += 2;
16:51<Samu>now do I need a break,?
16:51<chillcore>break; ^^^
16:52<Samu>this seems to have fixed it, but I'm unsure
16:52<Samu>let me copy paste
16:53<Samu>starting at line 17
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the coding style says, if you don't put a break, you need to put a comment that says "/* fall through */"
16:54<Samu>i don't even know if I have to put a break
16:54<Samu>how can i tell
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>to indicate that you meant to not put a break there
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, have you looked up what break does yet?
16:55*chillcore takes mental note of this ...
16:55<chillcore>I seem to forget that from time to time
16:55<chillcore>the comment part
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17:04<chillcore>yay a library ???
17:04<chillcore>what is that link?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: great. you found a link. now can you rephrase the content of the link in your own words?
17:05<chillcore>I am not even clicking 99% chance it need javascript and I don't have that
17:06<chillcore>not enabled anyway
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>it's microsoft. by all chance it needs silverlight :p
17:06-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06<chillcore>don't have that neither not even on windoze
17:08<Samu>i put break, now testing if i notice any difference
17:08<chillcore>I'll ddecide for myself what is acceptable or not to play o my pc thank you very much MS
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: so you randomly add and remove lines until you feel things are right?
17:09<Samu>yes, usually
17:09<@Rubidium>monkeys + works of Shakespear?
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i feel like there are not enough monkeys for that
17:10<chillcore>over time sure eddi
17:10<chillcore>we may be 7 billion but all them before and after us ...
17:11<chillcore>no idea to what it accumulates
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: then we have that already. there was a monkey called shakespeare that produced the works of shakespeare
17:11<Samu>crap, it needs break removed apparently
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: about 10% of all humans that ever lived are alive today
17:12<chillcore>only 10%
17:12<chillcore>I find that hard to believe
17:12<chillcore>it's possible
17:12<chillcore>but still
17:13<chillcore>define human
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>homo sapiens sapiens
17:13<chillcore>then ye quite possibel
17:14<chillcore>but we did not reach this age before
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>but it doesn't make much of a difference, as the population sizes back then where not very large
17:14<chillcore>and we wer fewer
17:14<chillcore>that too
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17:14<Samu>got it working
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, that covers about the last 100000 years
17:14<Samu>so... FALL THROUGH comment is needed
17:14<chillcore>the comment in itself does nada samu
17:15<chillcore>that is why it is called a comment
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the point of the exercise is not to get it to work
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the point of the exercise is you to explain in your words WHY it works
17:17<Samu>buoys on canals were getting counted wrong
17:17<Samu>not counted with break
17:17<Samu>counted without break
17:17<Samu>as to why... meh... I dunno still
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>that is not WHY
17:18<Samu>im trying to figure out why
17:19<chillcore>ye what could that break be doing except break stuffs
17:19<chillcore>this chillcore dude posted a link maybe follow it and spend some time there samu
17:23<Samu>this is a case by case loop I think
17:23<chillcore>something like a switch?
17:24<Samu>once it finds one that it matches in order, the break tells the game not to look for the other cases anymore and do the next thing
17:25<Samu>it found a match
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17:25<Samu>does the code for it
17:25<Samu>then the break prevents it from finding any other match below it?
17:26<Samu>meh, something like this
17:28<Samu>docks and buoys can both have maintenance.water
17:28<Samu>if there's a canal there
17:28<Samu>that's why the break can't be at the dock part only
17:29<Samu>hmm, yeah, i suck at explaining stuff
17:29<chillcore>you keep skipping step 1 what do you expect
17:29<chillcore>also randomly ripping out code ...
17:29<Samu>what step 1?
17:30<chillcore>knowing what exactly it is you want to do and focus on that
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17:30<Samu>well, step 1 is still this
17:30<Samu>it's done now
17:31<Samu>step 2 was making use of that game setting
17:31<Samu>but I need step 1 to work correctly
17:31<chillcore>except step one is hands of no coding involved
17:31<chillcore>step 2 is your step 1
17:31<chillcore>or somthing like that
17:32<chillcore>step 0 ... I am hungry
17:32<chillcore>step 1 saying to myself I should eat
17:33<chillcore>step 3 going to fridge and taking some food
17:33<chillcore>step 4 eating food
17:33<chillcore>you just start eating
17:33<chillcore>makes sense?
17:34<chillcore>hmm step 2 is getting up
17:34<@Rubidium>not really... unless it's "writting" in basic
17:34<@Rubidium>what did I write there?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>step 5, realizing you forgot to get a drink, and going all the way twice
17:35<chillcore>blame your fingers Rubidium ... works for me :P
17:36<Samu>must test company merging now
17:37<@Rubidium>well... rather between my neurons deciding what to write, and the neurons actually controlling my fingers because in my head it really was "written". However, I often notice that there is a queue of text that has to be "flushed" and the locking occasionally fails in some manner so things get mixed up without me noticing it until I finalised the sentence by pressing return
17:37<@Rubidium>as if "return" is like walking through a door and losing some memories, and as such seeing mistakes in the written text
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i often restructure sentences when writing, and then there comes out complete nonsense
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>that gets even worse, because in german sentences often get long and nested
17:39<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: lies... that's just the words ;)
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>structure of words words is way easier :p
17:40<@Rubidium>oh, and meetings due to "Diskussionsbedarf" (if I written that correctly)
17:41<Samu>2+5 = 7
17:41<Samu>4+8 = 12
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>that seems right :)
17:41<@Rubidium>Samu: and 1+2*3 ?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: what if 2+5=25 and 4+8=48?
17:42<chillcore>but ... 1 + 2 = 11
17:42<Samu>after the merge i must have 7 water maintenance and 12 station maintenance
17:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: nah, 01234567 + 01234567 is so much more fun ;)
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that is 012345678 obviously
17:44<chillcore>scratches head for a sec
17:44<@Rubidium>rather 02471356 ;)
17:45<chillcore>I know that 253 + 4 = 1
17:46<@Rubidium>anyhow... apparantly year 01234567 BC was a leap year starting on a Monday...
17:46<chillcore>but this 02471356 ... new to me
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: 0xxxx in C++ means octal notation
17:47<@Rubidium>which makes octal numbers very useful on obfuscating C code
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>is there a reason why you always omit the "s" in "yes"?
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17:49<Eddi|zuHause>and it's not "blame the fingers", because it seems rather deliberate and consistent
17:49<chillcore>bad habit lazyness that chatting has thought me
17:49<chillcore>no excuses
17:49<chillcore>I'll try not to do that no more ;)
17:50<@Rubidium>should ask Tron for one of his DeMorgan sprees, but on the sentences in this channel ;)
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>~(a||b) vs ~a&&~b?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>one of my math professors said "de morgan would turn in his grave if he knew that such a triviality was named after him"
17:52<@Rubidium>well, rather ~(a | b) vs ~a & ~b *or* !(a || b) vs !a && !b
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17:52<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: hm, yeah. i don't do that often enough
17:53<chillcore>hmm what does ~ mean again?
17:53<@Rubidium>though... mixing logic vs bitwise operators is also a nice obfuscation technique
17:53<chillcore>except homefolder :P
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: one is bitwise logic and the other binary logic
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: ~1 is true, while !1 is false :)
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: ~1 is FF...FE
17:56<chillcore>aha need to read up on that
17:57<chillcore>and I need to restart my client it started jumping again ... memory full or something alike
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17:58<@Rubidium>do you have that little memory in your computer?
17:58<chillcore>It is not that ... 8 GB
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>if something leaks memory in my system, it usually takes like two weeks to build up
17:59<chillcore>after a while, more like a lot of time, the chat jumsp to top with every new message
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>your buffer gets too big?
17:59<chillcore>no idea what causes it but restarting it helps
17:59<chillcore>possibly yes
17:59<@Rubidium>installing a better client might work as well
18:00<chillcore>maybe that too
18:00<chillcore>I picked the one that was installed
18:00<chillcore>Xchat gnome
18:01<chillcore>I have xchat irc too
18:01<chillcore>but could not be bothered to check the diff
18:01-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
18:01<chillcore>and pidgin and so on
18:01<chillcore>any suggestions? ... there are a ton of them
18:02<chillcore>just do not want bloatware
18:02<@Rubidium>irssi ;)
18:03<chillcore>installing will test on next connect
18:03<chillcore>thank you
18:12<Samu>grr company merging is wrong
18:12<Samu>counting water maintenance is correct, counting station maintenance is not
18:13<chillcore>maybe you are trying to fix something that does not need fixing samu
18:13<chillcore>or at least not in the way you afre trying to fix it
18:14<chillcore>remember that you had to revert this one part and do 'your thing' in that other file for it to work?
18:15<chillcore>you've spend quite some time there untill you exactly told me your goal
18:16<chillcore>and I was like why did you not say THAT to begin with.
18:16<chillcore>step 1
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18:17<chillcore>pikka while I see you ... have you seen r27000?
18:18<chillcore>just saying in case you did not ;)
18:18<chillcore>hmm did I press enter? I did
18:20<Pikka>or r27200?
18:20<chillcore>yes that too :P
18:20<chillcore>I meant that one
18:21<chillcore>pff ... I hope I will be able to code for many more years without needing special aid tools.
18:21<chillcore>fuuu eyes
18:21<chillcore>mine that is
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>use text to speech... :)
18:22<chillcore>that works properly now?
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt it :p
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>but it probably sends everything you say in your home to apple/samsung/google/... :p
18:23<chillcore>nothing new though with my eyes have known since a kid that one day ...
18:23<chillcore>or MS
18:26<chillcore>I'll just buy that 84 inch touchscreen and fontsize 150 :P
18:26<chillcore>in 20 years or so
18:29<chillcore>there is something speciam about mapsize 512** ... I can not put my finger on it
18:31<chillcore>the code should behave the same for all mapsizes yet ...
18:31<chillcore>it does not
18:44<Terkhen>good night
18:46<chillcore>const height_t roughness = 7 + 3 * _settings_game.game_creation.tgen_smoothness;
18:46<chillcore>yay undocumented magic nrs
18:47<chillcore>not that this is the culprit but why 7 + 3 and not just 10
18:47<chillcore>night terkhen
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18:50<chillcore>yeah order of execution I just now realise
18:50<Pikka>frosch posted a patch for , did it get forgotten about or was it considered unsuitable?
18:50<Pikka>also that chillcore
18:50<chillcore>still undocumented magic
18:51<Pikka>needs more "// magic"
18:51<Pikka>then it's documented magic
18:51<chillcore>hehe after or before we remove all the breaks?
18:51<chillcore>there is a part I marked as magic
18:52<chillcore>seed at clientstart
18:53<chillcore>/ uint32_max magic
18:53<chillcore>but that makes sence
18:53<chillcore>one slash got eaten*
18:54<chillcore>hmm the animation does not stop?
18:55<chillcore>kinda makes sense if it is not treated sepperatly from the rest of the animation code
18:55<chillcore>haven not looked at code nor patches yet pikka
18:56<Pikka>it was more a general musing than directed at you specifically :)
18:56<chillcore>I was just looking to change my mind for a sec
18:57<Pikka>just running a testgame with an AI which builds non-path signals and I noticed the bug was still there, I thought it had been fixed for some reason.
18:57<chillcore>helps me focus on what I was doing ;)
18:58<Samu>what's the difference between IsDock(tile) and IsDockTile(tile)
18:58<Samu>it's not too clear
18:58<chillcore>one is the dock and the other the tile where a dock sits on
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18:59<chillcore>read slower and all of it
18:59<chillcore>or rather one is the dock
19:00<Samu>one is the whole
19:00<chillcore>and the other the tile that is part of the dock but not hte other one?
19:00<chillcore>or that
19:00<Samu>the other is a part of the whole?
19:00<Samu>ok, quite confusing
19:01<Samu>it is repeated
19:01<Samu>* Is tile \a t a dock tile?
19:01<Samu>there's only a difference * @pre IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)
19:01<chillcore>I dont know
19:01<Samu>don't know what's that
19:01<chillcore>t mostly refers to 'a' tile
19:02<chillcore>read a few lines above "t = ?"
19:02<chillcore>then you know
19:02<chillcore>and if t is in the params then yeah
19:03<chillcore>it is a tile
19:03<Samu>4 + 8 must be 12 now, hopefully i get this right
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19:03<Samu>YES! 12
19:03<Samu>fixed it
19:03<chillcore>you ask bout t then you start about counting
19:04<chillcore>did you?
19:04<Samu>well, it's working, I don't care now lol
19:04<Samu> if (IsDockTile(tile) && !HasTileWaterGround(tile)) {
19:04<chillcore>cool untill you notice the thing that broke like an hour ago
19:04<chillcore>congrats anyway
19:05<Samu>i got it like this atm
19:05<Samu>i could also try IsDock
19:05<chillcore>fine fine
19:05<Samu>let's see what happens
19:07<Samu>very meticulous this is...
19:10<Samu>if that also works, then I'll be worried
19:11<chillcore>well 1 apple + 1 banana is 2 pieces of fruit
19:11<chillcore>so is two bananas
19:12<chillcore>and two apples too
19:12<chillcore>or a pear and a kiwi
19:12<chillcore>always 2
19:12<chillcore>but if you're happy with 2 so am I
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19:13<Samu>4+ 8 = 12
19:13<Samu>well i'm worried now
19:13<chillcore>12 pieces of fruit njummie
19:14<chillcore>you really have no clue do you?
19:14<chillcore>I mean that in a nice way
19:15<Samu>i need to understand the difference
19:16<chillcore>try something random maybe it will come to you
19:16<chillcore>or read what t means
19:17<Samu>static inline bool IsDock(TileIndex t) -> return GetStationType(t) == STATION_DOCK;
19:17<chillcore>don't get me wrong I like faffing around too but not like that
19:17<Samu>static inline bool IsDockTile(TileIndex t) -> return IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) && GetStationType(t) == STATION_DOCK;
19:18<chillcore>and in the case I do do it like that I do not ask assistance
19:18<Samu>which one is better correct
19:18<chillcore>I dunno I am looking at tgp.cpp
19:19<chillcore>and I do not know the diff between the two because I have not looked
19:19<chillcore>isdock and isdocktile
19:19<chillcore>one os a tile the other is not
19:19<chillcore>that I can tell from here
19:20<chillcore>but that is also all I can tell without dropping whatever it is I am doing
19:23<chillcore>I'll do yours if you do mine :P
19:24<chillcore>mine is 15 patches to start
19:25<chillcore>and 11 to fix and or rewrite from scratch
19:25<chillcore>I am sure there will be at least 10 more to start
19:26<chillcore>but I am not in the same rush as you are
19:26<chillcore>this time next year is soon enough
19:26<chillcore>to get the basics
19:27<chillcore>but before doing that I got this one to fix
19:28<chillcore>which is 5 patches too
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19:51<chillcore>@calc 512/8/8
19:51<@DorpsGek>chillcore: 8
19:53<chillcore>@calc 1024/60
19:53<@DorpsGek>chillcore: 17.0666666667
19:53<chillcore>@calk 512/17
19:54<chillcore>@calc 512/17
19:54<@DorpsGek>chillcore: 30.1176470588
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>youtube is so broken in germany :/
19:58-!-smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
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19:59<chillcore>ye it is sad
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>and you did it again :p
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like the "s" is miles away from the "e"
20:00<chillcore>thanks for slapping my fingers
20:00<chillcore>I know
20:01<chillcore>just lazyness and by now it has become a really bad autopilot habbit
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, these bad hobbits
20:01<chillcore>keep slapping much apreciated, I hate myself for it sometimes ;)
20:02<chillcore>the song I posted was "this world by selah sue" there are versions you can wacth
20:03<chillcore>but finding them is a pain
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>nah, don't bother.
20:03<chillcore>I have this buddy in frankfurth ... the other day I sent him tons of links
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>there's "youtube unblocker" plugins, but i don't have that enabled usually
20:04<chillcore>nope nope nope nope yes
20:04<chillcore>rince repeat
20:04<chillcore>ah ok
20:04<chillcore>I could stream via steam, if whenever you want to hear something
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>chances are, i don't like your music anyway :p
20:05<chillcore>worked fine over the pond to my buddie in cali
20:05<chillcore>possibly but I like lots of musics
20:06<chillcore>what I mean is I can kill the sound on laptop for me and you listen to whatever you want to listen ;)
20:06<chillcore>not 24/24 but yeah
20:07<chillcore>kill the sound for me If I do not happen to like what you like :P
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like i don't have tons of music for my own
20:07<chillcore>me too got plenty still nice to discover new things from time to time
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like my taste in music changed the last few months, and i don't listen to my usual stuff that much anymore
20:09<chillcore>that happens, and then some day you listen to them all once more
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>also in the uniform radio blah there is not a lot of new stuff that i really like
20:11<chillcore>same here
20:11<chillcore>I never was into popular much
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>i mean it's not a lot that i really hate either, but i suppose that's the point of uniform radio blah
20:12<chillcore>true, like hospital food
20:12<chillcore>no spice
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember ever having hospital food
20:12<chillcore>it is bland
20:12<chillcore>fits everyone and noone
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>is that different from regular work cantina food?
20:13<chillcore>less spicy even but yeah pretty much that
20:13<chillcore>not that I ever ate much of it thankfully
20:14<chillcore>spent about a week in hospital once ... broken leg both bones needed a iron bar to be able to walk soon-ish
20:15<chillcore>but it is a common expression here "what did it taste like? meh like hospital food"
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>i never really spent any time in hospitals. i should have had some operation as a kid that never happened.
20:15<Samu>4 + 8 = 14, hmm
20:16<chillcore>cool extra fruit samu
20:16<chillcore>eddi hmm ...
20:17<chillcore>in regards of food you did not miss much :P
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose...
20:17<chillcore>too little too
20:18<chillcore>two double sandwiches ... "heyhey where is the other 6"
20:18<chillcore>sorry that is all you are getting
20:18<chillcore>same with hot meals
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>just complain louder :p
20:20<chillcore>no use they move on ... you send someone after fries :P
20:21<chillcore>or you get it yourself but seeing as I could not walk due to swollen leg
20:21<chillcore>they hammer that bar in
20:21<chillcore>perhaps too much details ...
20:23<chillcore>removing was fine ... 1 night
20:23<chillcore>and gone home, walking after a week instead of 6
20:25<chillcore>funny thing is ... you break your leg and it does not hurt the first two hours or so
20:26<chillcore>adrenaline I guess
20:28<Samu>4 + 8 = 14 again, grrr what am I missing
20:28<chillcore>about everything
20:28<chillcore>no 2 he has left not missing
20:29<chillcore>or yeah 2 on the other side
20:29<chillcore>gotta love math
20:30<Samu>i really need help understanding this
20:30<Samu>static void ChangeTileOwner_Station(TileIndex tile, Owner old_owner, Owner new_owner)
20:31<Samu>trying to update station counting
20:31<chillcore>have you already found out the diff between isdock and isdocktile then?
20:32<chillcore>or are you just adding more random stuffs to find out
20:33<chillcore>what do you want us to say
20:33<chillcore>that function changes the owner of a station
20:34<chillcore>it sais so in the function name
20:34<Samu>dock stations
20:34<chillcore>thx for sharing
20:34<Samu>they visually take 2 tiles, but only 1 of the tile sets the owner of the dock
20:35<Samu>let me post my code
20:35<Samu>better than trying to explain
20:35<chillcore>yes as do dock we had that part of the conversation three hours ago
20:35<chillcore>s dock/locks
20:36<chillcore>it was around the time I told you that these things are to be changed by newgrf
20:36<chillcore>which you were told about three weeks ago
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20:37<chillcore>seeing you have 14 tiles now instead of 12
20:37<chillcore>which were 10 before ...
20:38<chillcore>the chances are very high you did something wrong when it went from 10 to 12
20:38<chillcore>are you testing this in a savegame?
20:39<chillcore>try again and maybe you have 8 + 4 =16
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20:41<chillcore>where does the 4 and 8 come from
20:41<chillcore>tiles you count manually?
20:41<chillcore>and the 14 from some gui?
20:42<Samu>there it is, sorry for the delay, I'm quite slow at managing all these programs
20:43<chillcore>there is no 8 or 4 there :/
20:44<chillcore>just you moving stuffs 2 old to new
20:45<chillcore>and addin 2 there too
20:45<chillcore>so yeah there is the original 10 for you
20:46<chillcore>it should be 10
20:46<Samu>new revision,
20:46<chillcore>even if you count 12 manually
20:46<Samu>added a "!"
20:47<Samu>at line 74
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20:47<Samu>the part below update station count is where I'm asknig for help
20:47<Samu>68 and below
20:48<Samu>the rest appears to be working fine
20:48<chillcore>keyword is appears
20:48<chillcore>obviously it does not
20:48<Samu>between 68 and 77
20:49<chillcore>hmm about 4 hours ago I told you that I do not undertsand that part of the code
20:50<chillcore>do you not think too that if the dock needed two tiles in the code it would have been that way already?
20:50<chillcore>3 for locks
20:53<Samu>I'm doing it like the lock
20:54<chillcore>you're missing the point
20:54<chillcore>devs know very well a dock is two tiles
20:54<chillcore>yet they count only 1 in the code
20:54<chillcore>maybe there is a reason?
20:55<chillcore>maybe even a very good one
20:55<Samu>they count 1 because there's 2 tiles
20:55<chillcore>hmm ...
20:55<Samu>but i changed it for the part on the water
20:55<Samu>to retain the old owner
20:55<chillcore>yes you did
20:56<chillcore>and now you get 8 + 4 = 14
20:56<chillcore>instead of 8+4 = 10
20:56<chillcore>still no idea where 8 and 4 come from
20:56<Samu>i broke the code to make a new feature work, but now I have to fix it
20:56<chillcore>yes that is how it works
20:57<Samu>the old owner is gone
20:58<chillcore>fine let openttd do the counting
20:58<Samu>how could i tell the old owner is getting the correct count
20:59<chillcore>by not messing with counting?
20:59<chillcore>last time ... where do the 4 and 8 come from
20:59<chillcore>I will not ask another time
21:00<Samu>i tested liek this: start a new company
21:00<Samu>build 2 docks
21:00<Samu>that counts 4 station tiles
21:00<chillcore>nope 2
21:00<chillcore>but fine continue
21:00<Samu>ok, there's 2 station tiles that must be coutned as 4 station tiles
21:00<Samu>start a 2nd company
21:01<Samu>build 4 locks, that's 4 station tiles that must be counted as 8
21:01<Samu>force this company into the negative, go to the other company, and wait for the buyout and buy it
21:01<chillcore>and where does the 14 come from
21:01<Samu>4 + 8 must become 12
21:01<Samu>from that ownership merging code
21:01<chillcore>yet you see 14 where?
21:02<Samu>after the merge
21:03<chillcore>samu wake up
21:03<Samu>I don't get your question
21:03<chillcore>you come here and say 8 + 4 = 14
21:04<Samu>I look at infrastructure counting details
21:04<chillcore>you explained the 8 and 4
21:04<chillcore>thank you
21:04<chillcore>so 14 in that gui
21:05<chillcore>maybe if you had let openttd do the counting
21:05<chillcore>2 docks is 2 tiles
21:05<chillcore>4 docks is 4 tiles
21:05<chillcore>2 + 4 is 6
21:05<chillcore>some magic later gui shows 12
21:05<chillcore>6 * 2 = 12
21:06<Samu>what openttd is doing is counting tiles
21:06<chillcore>yep as it is supposed to do
21:06<chillcore>you interfere
21:06<chillcore>with your counting
21:06<chillcore>see the prob here
21:07<Samu>MakeDock creates 2 station tiles
21:07<chillcore>now or before samu
21:08<chillcore>you create the prob yourself and blame someone else
21:08<chillcore>openttd in this case
21:09<Samu>MakeStation(t, o, sid, STATION_DOCK, d);
21:09<Samu>this is for the first tile
21:09<Samu>there is no second tile yet
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>what else are you supposed to do with problems? :p
21:09<chillcore>then convinced it is doing something wrong you try to fix that
21:09<Samu>when the second tile is to be created
21:09<chillcore>so you try to fix your own prob by creating more
21:09<Samu>it is getting the owner based on the owner of the water tile
21:09<chillcore>ye eddi
21:10<Samu>so, dock at water tile could be or not be from the same company
21:10<Samu>so, 1
21:10<Samu>1 tile, but to be counted as 2 for maintenance
21:10<chillcore>it belongs to the tile on the shore
21:11<chillcore>yes yes yes
21:11<chillcore>1 tile counted as 2
21:11<chillcore>which is correct
21:11<Samu>yet there are actually 2 tiles
21:11<chillcore>before you sterted messing with it
21:11<Samu>I don't want it to count the tile on the water during the merging
21:12<Samu>count the other one, at the coast
21:12<Samu>this is the owner of the dock
21:12<chillcore>^^^ faceplant
21:12<Samu>it is to be counted as 2 for maintenance
21:13<Samu>pff sorry, this is so confusing to explain
21:13<Samu>just running the game and seeing it work is much easier
21:13<chillcore>yes ...
21:13<Samu>the tile at the water doesn't need to have an ownership transfer
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should try reading what the code actually does, instead of wanting it to do something and then complaining that it doesn't follow your imagination?
21:14<Samu>test it yourself
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>reading. not testing
21:14<Samu>that code is apparently working
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>the code must be correct even if you never run it.
21:14<Samu>but, the deal of IsDock vs IsDockTile is what's confusing me
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes. so un-confuse it by reading
21:15<Samu>so, I can't garantee that it's really 100% correct
21:15<chillcore>apparently != is
21:16<Samu>there's 1 owner for the dock, but 2 owners for the tile
21:17<Samu>grrr, just test it please, I'm really bad when I attempt to explain it
21:18<chillcore>test what samu I read most of the maintenance code when I aplied it to my patchpack
21:18<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: i hereby forbid you to run the program for the next two weeks. instead you must learn to get this 100% guarantee by reading and understanding the code.
21:18<chillcore>^^^ and that
21:19<chillcore>not that I understand it all because stuffs was still changed afterwards
21:20<chillcore>how long is maintenance now in trunk? +-2 years?
21:20<chillcore>thousends of players
21:21<chillcore>something like this would have been noticed
21:21<chillcore>also dock and locks since like forever
21:21<chillcore>but yeah what eddi said read and understand
21:21<chillcore>then try to change stuffs
21:24<chillcore>just for shizz and giggles samu
21:24<chillcore>let us test rail maintenance
21:24<chillcore>open your game
21:25<chillcore>open maintenance window
21:25<chillcore>build a single piece of track
21:25<chillcore>check value
21:25<Samu>there's 2 dock parts, count the one not at the water and don't count the other when transfering ownership.
21:25<Samu>1 rail piece
21:25<chillcore>now make a cross
21:25<chillcore>check again
21:25<Samu>4 rail pieces
21:26<chillcore>now add a diagonal rail and check agian
21:26<chillcore>do the same again in the other direction
21:26<chillcore>it is correct
21:26<chillcore>nuff said
21:27<chillcore>this is all on one tile yes?
21:27<chillcore>16 is correct
21:27<chillcore>whatever you say
21:28<chillcore>starting to see the light?
21:28<chillcore>now read code and understand that
21:28<chillcore>untill then ... I dunno what to say
21:28<chillcore>you do not listen
21:30<chillcore>fill the rst of the tile with rail IIRC it was 36
21:30<chillcore>not sure though
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21:31<Eddi|zuHause>well, first grade maths could tell you whether that's correct :p
21:32<chillcore>I was not testing along
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>well, my point was: don't test. read and understand
21:37<chillcore>I just wanted to prove to samu that building 4 pieces of track is not 4 rails to maintain
21:37<chillcore>just as with docks
21:37<chillcore>ahen you delete them you do not delete 16 'pieces' but 4
21:38<chillcore>^^^ if they are on the same tile
21:39<chillcore>anyhoo he added 2 tiles
21:39<chillcore>then later he deleted two form the other company and added two again
21:40<chillcore>but no point explaining that since it is wrong anyway
21:40<chillcore>in his view
21:40<chillcore>so yeah 8 + 4 + 2 is indeed 14
21:41<chillcore>in the code but not in the visual game
21:41<chillcore>there it still is 6 * 2
21:42<chillcore>and infra gui shows code
21:44<chillcore>if only my bank account worked like that :P
21:44<chillcore>I'd have my residence at the mister cash
21:44<chillcore>deposit and redraw all day long xD
21:48<chillcore>those sharp peaks with alpinist eddi, lots of them or a few?
21:49<chillcore>with variation this is hard to do ...
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: basically what i'd like alpinist to be is that the hilltops are basically unusable, and all the action happens in a more or less connected web of valleys
21:50<chillcore>ok ... let me post a few screenies in a bit
21:50<chillcore>not that you have to comment right away ;)
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>the way current mapgen works is that it kinda artificially flattens the hilltops, so often you're better off working on the hilltops and see the valleys as bumps in the ground, instead of working in the valleys and seeing the hills as bumps out of the ground
21:56<Eddi|zuHause>also, current mapgen never really offers places where a tunnel would be more useful than climbing the mountain
22:02<Samu>before: dock slope tile = owner a, 1 maintenance
22:03<Samu>before: dock water tile = owner a, 1 maintenance
22:03<Samu>patch: dock slopetile = owner a, 2 maintenance
22:03<Samu>patch: dock water tile = owner b, 0 maintenance
22:04<Samu>if (IsDockTile(tile) && !HasTileWaterGround(tile))
22:05<chillcore>eddi posted them, note that this is 512 map and very rough settings, last one is current mountainous and peaks may be a bit further apart later on?
22:05<Samu>owner b is skipped
22:05<chillcore>any good or all of them too rough or?
22:05<Samu>this is in my view doing the correct thing
22:06<chillcore>second is actually rough but just to get an idea
22:06<chillcore>larger maps will be higher ofcourse
22:06<chillcore>it is more about the shape of it that I would like an idea on how to proceed
22:06<Samu>transfering ownership, transfer owner for dock slope tile, don't transfer owner for dock water tile
22:06<Samu>leave it be
22:07<chillcore>I will most likely take a nappy before continueing
22:09<chillcore>eddi yes them flat hilltops ... that should be better with current values. read: occur less often
22:09<chillcore>much room for improvment when I continue with the gui version.
22:10<Samu>4 + 8 = 12
22:12<Samu>there's something I'm overlooking, I can sense it
22:12<Samu>i just can't figure out what exactly
22:12<Samu>but so far, this code is working
22:12<chillcore>(2 + 4) * 2 samu
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22:13<chillcore>I give up
22:13<chillcore>read code
22:13<Samu>this transferral is for the maintenance counting only
22:13<chillcore>cool and let the count be screwed
22:13<chillcore>as long as it is good for you?
22:14<chillcore>4 + 8 is indeed 12
22:14<chillcore>you win
22:14<Samu>1 dock is made of 2 tiles
22:14<chillcore>yes ofcourse
22:15<Samu>2 tiles = 2 maintenance
22:15<Samu>1+1 = 2
22:15<chillcore>makes sense
22:15<Samu>2+0 = 2
22:16<Samu>i'm sorry, but... it's working, i checked and re-checked and still don't get what you're trying to tell me
22:17<chillcore>it's good samu ... you checked and it compiles
22:17<Samu>I am only worried about the correctness of the code
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22:17<chillcore>me too but not the syntax side of it
22:18<Samu>when it is searching for tiles
22:18<Samu>it finds the parts of a dock
22:18<chillcore>for correctness there is the coding style guide
22:18<Samu>slope and water parts
22:19<chillcore>for functionality ... it works no?
22:19<chillcore>code works or it does not
22:19<Samu>i made sure the slope is getting 2 and the water is getting 0
22:19<chillcore>2 = 2
22:19<Samu>1 + 1 vs 2 + 0
22:19<chillcore>yeah aples pears bananas 2 is 2
22:20<chillcore>I'll give you one cookie you give 1 ... hmm car?
22:20<chillcore>1 -1 +1 = 1
22:21<chillcore>fair trade
22:21<Samu>it is -2
22:21<chillcore>is it
22:21<chillcore>k 2 - 2 + 2 = 2
22:21<Samu>1 -2 +1 = 0
22:21<chillcore>ah ok
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22:22<Samu>transferring 0 is pointless
22:22<Samu>so just skip it
22:22<Samu>count only one of the dock tiles when doing the transfer, the one that doesn't have water
22:23<Samu>which is the one that counts as 2
22:23<Samu>subtract 2 from old owner (which bankrupts by the way), add it to the new owner
22:23<Samu>this is a counting transferral
22:23<chillcore>ah so the one on land we do not need
22:24<Samu>not that one, the one on water is the one that's not needed
22:24<chillcore>hmm my bad
22:24<chillcore>so confuzzled
22:24<chillcore>but I think I am almost getting it now
22:25<chillcore>the water one we do not need yes?
22:26<chillcore>I'll ask PM to remove it from OpenGFX when he returns from holiday
22:26<chillcore>not needed no more
22:27<Eddi|zuHause># no more no more no more no more
22:27<Eddi|zuHause># hit the road jack, and don't you come back no more
22:28<Samu>let me bankrupt the damn thing
22:28<Samu>no merging now
22:28<Eddi|zuHause>as a kid i always understood "mono mono mono"
22:28<chillcore>cheat into the company and buldoze waterz
22:29<chillcore>I never really listened too eddi
22:29<chillcore>the melody and 'refrein'
22:29<chillcore>^^^ dutch for?
22:29<Samu>saveload also appears to be doing everything fine
22:29<Eddi|zuHause>i think the word is "chorus"
22:29<chillcore>yes that
22:30<chillcore>I thought chorus was the main melody :P
22:30<chillcore>as in chord
22:30<chillcore>but multiple of them
22:30<chillcore>for real
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>chorus is the part that repeats many times over the song
22:30<chillcore>now I get it
22:31<chillcore>got to become 40 for that moehahahaha
22:31<chillcore>like they say wisdom comes with age
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>then something must be wrong with me
22:31<Samu>[02:26] <chillcore> I'll ask PM to remove it from OpenGFX when he returns from holiday
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>as i'm not 40 yet
22:32<Samu>this is the counter, not the graphic
22:32<Samu>station is transferred correctly
22:32<chillcore>now we're going to get it
22:32<chillcore>maybe you went to shool longer then I have eddi ;)
22:32<chillcore>or I never needed the word
22:33<chillcore>samy you just said we did not need it no more?
22:33<Samu>we don't need to count it
22:33<chillcore>oh my bad
22:34<Samu>but i'm still bankrupting this, for piece of mind
22:34<chillcore>yes can't have that unpieced
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>don't piece your mind
22:35<chillcore>in teh water
22:36<Eddi|zuHause>no, you're thinking of smoke on the water
22:36<chillcore>am I
22:36<Eddi|zuHause># du du duuuu, du du duduuuuu
22:37<chillcore>you are not allowed to pies in the water ... if it is a bathtub or a swimming pool
22:37<chillcore>sea is fine
22:37<chillcore>so they say
22:38<chillcore>dutch btw
22:38<Eddi|zuHause>i thought the mannekin pis is in belgium?
22:38<chillcore>he can as it is his own water
22:39<chillcore>in brussels he is
22:39<chillcore>and they dress him up on special holidays
22:39<Eddi|zuHause>is there a belgium outside of brussels? :p
22:39<chillcore>eh yes
22:40<chillcore>but not the same one as inside
22:40<chillcore>I can't even explain
22:40<chillcore>no idea where to start
22:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, the things i do know about belgium is that there's a flanders and a wallonia, and they sort of don't really get along
22:42<chillcore>let's just say if four governments fall at the same time that is no prob here
22:43<chillcore>still a few left
22:43<Eddi|zuHause>hehe :p
22:43<chillcore>but yeah the thing between flanders and wallonie s about cashflows
22:44<chillcore>and then there is brussels
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>isn't it always?
22:44-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
22:44<chillcore>ye I guess
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>there, i provided you with some backups :p
22:45<chillcore>most of my flemish cohabitants seem to forget that in ye olde days the cash flowed in th other direction
22:45<chillcore>thank you ... autopilot again
22:45<Samu>waiting for the bankrupt
22:45<Eddi|zuHause>we have that here as well. but we call it bavaria
22:46<chillcore>somtimes I will switch to querty too
22:46<chillcore>on a azerty keyboard that is
22:46<Eddi|zuHause>that shouldn't change the positions of e and s?
22:46<chillcore>or vice versa
22:47<chillcore>just a-q z-w m-, and then some
22:48<chillcore>but yeah I am used to both kinda
22:49<Eddi|zuHause>i can't type on qwerty
22:49<chillcore>ah germany has azerety too ... I thought it was just the french and us
22:50<Eddi|zuHause>or i should say "i can't tzpe" :p
22:50<chillcore>that is what they told me
22:50<Eddi|zuHause>we have qwertz
22:50<chillcore>oh my ...
22:51<chillcore>never had one of those ... must get
22:51<chillcore>just to be special :P
22:51<Eddi|zuHause>switched y-z (because nobody needs y), added äöü, and shuffled around all the special characters
22:51<chillcore>makes sense
22:52<Eddi|zuHause>really, in german, the frequency of y is like 0,02%
22:52<chillcore>we have éèç
22:52<chillcore>but not needed much in dutch
22:53<Samu>omg bankrupt already... zzzzz
22:54<Samu>it's taking so long
22:54<Eddi|zuHause>some people, usually programmers, in germany dislike qwertz, because all the brackets need shift or altgr keys
22:54<chillcore>yes samu most peeps just bulldoze water
22:54<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't really see that as a problem
22:55<chillcore>here too [] needs alt-gr
22:56<Eddi|zuHause>{[]} is altgr+7890
22:56<chillcore>for the french mostly again
22:56<chillcore>we should revolt us flandriens ... again
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>make a referendum like the scottish tried
22:57<chillcore>hmm that will go well
22:58<chillcore>if it rains that day noone shows up :P
22:59<chillcore>two drops and peeps flee ... me included
23:00<Samu>next problem to fix
23:00<Samu>loading new save game on old version
23:01<Samu>some issues happening
23:01<Samu>and the bankrupt went fine
23:01<chillcore>manyh moons ago I was riding my bicycle in the pouring rain and 200 meters in front of me it was sunny still but the rain moved with me as I progressed
23:02<chillcore>not happened often though
23:02<chillcore>still it changes on a dime sometimes
23:03<chillcore>should not happen you reuse a setting samu
23:03<chillcore>you did it wrong not openttd
23:03<chillcore>just saying
23:04<Samu>old openttd version can't tell that the new savegame is separating the counting
23:04<Samu>hmm what can i do about this
23:04<chillcore>afterload cpp
23:04<chillcore>have fun counting
23:05<chillcore>not related to that setting you re-used
23:05<Samu>didn't use the setting
23:06<chillcore>so still blocking in MP
23:06<chillcore>you need a savegambump anyways
23:06<chillcore>but not for the MP stuffs
23:06<chillcore>2 things
23:07<Samu>old savegame on this patched version is behaving correctly though
23:07<chillcore>then what s the prob?
23:07<Samu>the opposite is not
23:07<chillcore>it should not
23:07<chillcore>we do not go backwards
23:07<chillcore>only forwards
23:07<Samu>so bump
23:08<Samu>no other solution?
23:08<Eddi|zuHause><chillcore> manyh moons ago I was riding my bicycle in the pouring rain and 200 meters in front of me it was sunny still but the rain moved with me as I progressed <-- you mean like in the comics where the cloud is directly above you and moves around with you? :p
23:09<chillcore>samu: if old savegames work it is fine, if new does not work in old the ye ...what could be wrong
23:09<chillcore>yes eddi
23:09<chillcore>only if you move in the same direction as the clouds move ofcourse
23:10<Samu>it's counting station parts as 1 + 1, not 2 + 0
23:10<chillcore>that is why peeps flee here for the rain; you never know what is comming
23:10<Samu>savegame version bump it is then...
23:11<chillcore>seriously samu
23:11<chillcore>do old savegames work
23:11<chillcore>in your version
23:12<Samu>let me confirm that,
23:12<chillcore>ah try savegamebump without understanding savegameformat/versioncontrol if you must
23:12<Samu>i wanna be absolutelylutely sure
23:12<chillcore>yes ofcourse
23:13<chillcore>you'll brbrb?
23:13<chillcore>my god
23:14<Samu>okay, i see what's wrong
23:14<chillcore>do you?
23:14<Samu>old savegame on my openttd version
23:14*chillcore clings to screen
23:14<Samu>the counting is correct, though it is counting it as 1 + 1, not 2 + 0, so.... that's not correct
23:15<Eddi|zuHause>am i trapped in a time loop?
23:15<chillcore>yes eddi
23:15<Eddi|zuHause>i thought we did savegame bumps twice already
23:15<chillcore>really bad movie
23:15<chillcore>he did not do it
23:15<chillcore>or did he?
23:16<chillcore>I am so lost
23:16<chillcore>the best part is yet to come
23:16<chillcore>load M in not M
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23:16<Samu>okay, I think i know what i can do to fix this
23:17<Samu>convert old behaviour
23:17<Samu>to new behaviour
23:18<Samu>the dock tile at the water is to be converted to be owned by whoever owns the water
23:19<chillcore>the tile that is not needed no more or the other one?
23:19<chillcore>at the water ... my bad
23:19<chillcore>did not read properly
23:19<Samu>that's the not needed tile indeed
23:19<Samu>not needed for the new behaviour
23:19<Samu>but needed for the old
23:20<chillcore>the one PM shopuld not remove because it is needed yes
23:20<chillcore>eh not needed but you get it
23:20<chillcore>teh one
23:21<chillcore>also counting
23:21<Samu>the counting is fine apparently, which kinda puzzles me
23:22<chillcore>man this is going better then I thought it would
23:22<chillcore>it works no worries
23:22<chillcore>maybe it is not saved but calculated ...
23:23<chillcore>but not sure
23:23<Samu>the counter is ignoring the water tile indeed
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23:23<Samu>i see, so that's why it's fine
23:24<chillcore>I doubt peeps will make it throught he log tomorrow
23:24<Samu>counts the other one as 2 already
23:24<Samu>so this is only an issue about ownership
23:24<Samu>ok, i can fix this
23:46*chillcore gves up tuning for today
23:47<chillcore>just bit more fintuning tomorrow and should be don for real this time
23:51<chillcore>nappy time
23:51<chillcore>good night all
23:51-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.]
23:55<Samu>wow it's fixed
23:55<Samu>yay mucho happy
---Logclosed Mon Mar 23 00:00:03 2015