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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-23

---Logopened Mon Mar 23 00:00:03 2015
00:04<Samu>one last question
00:04<Samu>loading the new save on old version is only fixable with a savegame version bump?
00:07<Samu>let me think
00:08<Samu>so i give someone my savegame but that someone only has access to an old openttd version... hmm
00:08<Samu>ok savegame version bump
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00:29<Samu>patch done -
00:30<Samu>if anyone wants to test, plz do, cyas all. I'm off to bed.
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05:02<supermop>hmm should i send this clay to brickworks or cement plant
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06:36<chillcore>good morning all
06:37<chillcore>for those of you feeling the urge to read last nights logs ... lemme save you some time
06:37<chillcore>at 23:50 pikka said something intersting
06:38<V453000>end of story? :D
06:38<chillcore>then at 10:02 supermop resumed bussiness as usual
06:39<chillcore>yes V453000 :P
06:39<chillcore>stil a good read though, if you have too much time on your hands and want to feel like smashing your head in the keyboard
06:39<chillcore>or choke giggle cry whatever coomes first
06:40<chillcore>samu is almost done with his patch
06:40<chillcore>all he needs to do still is bump savegame so he savegames can be loaded in PREVIOUS versions
06:40<chillcore>and then revert the whole damned thing
06:41<chillcore>^^^ as he says
06:50<supermop>ooh managed to spend all my money again
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06:51<Xaroth|Work>chillcore: you giant troll you
06:52<chillcore>sorry I gave up somewhere in the middle and agreed to evrything he said :P
06:53<chillcore>the forbid removing rivers patch is nice though
06:54<chillcore>that he finished yesterday and I am in the progress of testing
06:54<chillcore>in between doing other stuffs
06:55<chillcore>or was that the day before ... it is a bit of a blur
06:56<chillcore>blurr*? anyhoo
06:57<chillcore>I am sure he'll figure it out that M games can not be loaddin not M
06:57<chillcore>and then he will find something new that is wrong
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07:29<Xaroth|Work>and then i got annoyed by cffi again :|
07:48<chillcore>anyone knows of a free browser on iOS that plays youtube vids?
07:48<chillcore>safari offers to download the app
07:49<chillcore>Apollo is what I am using now ... too much spyware and I am sick and tired of it
07:50<chillcore>^^^ Also it does not respect the global denial of cookies and javascript
07:51<chillcore>which safari does but as said no vids supported
07:52<chillcore>maybe time to give apple another call ... they gave me that free nr
07:52<chillcore>despite them knowing me being jailbroken
07:52<chillcore>+10 Apple
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>and what exactly speaks against the app?
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure the solution is a browser plugin
08:00<chillcore>the constant download of referal cookies, the enabling of Javascript, the loading of pictures despite that being denied in "WeBlock", bookmarking every page I open as root despit the setting they provide being off
08:00<chillcore>and more
08:01<chillcore>they found a way around sytem settings ...
08:01<chillcore>which other apps do not do
08:01<chillcore>or can not because not kowing :P
08:02<chillcore>still a prog is not supposed to behave that way on apple devices
08:02<chillcore>sure apples security is a joke ... still Dev TOS
08:03<chillcore>google threw out the "Do No Evil" slogan long time ago
08:04<chillcore>if openttd would beginf deleting files at random I'd be equally furious
08:04<chillcore>I do not discriminate in that area
08:05<chillcore>anyhoo ... need new browser
08:05<chillcore>I can buy one no prob but I need to test first before I give any dev anymore mony ever
08:07<chillcore>If I were hacked at all, which is possible, other progs would behave shitty too so
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08:11<chillcore>maybe some day I wil download that old firefox code and see if I can do something with it
08:11<chillcore>they gave up because apple is so difficult to aprove apps
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08:15<chillcore>I could give more info but that will put too many peeps at risk
08:16<chillcore>more then now that is :P
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08:25<chillcore>heck even apple does not circomvent the settings of weblock
08:26<chillcore>the app store simply does not open if certain tracking mechanisms are blocked
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling you have the wrong kind of device :p
08:27<chillcore>hardware is nice though
08:27<chillcore>and thanks
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>have you thought about some open source phone?
08:28<chillcore>except for the lack of USB ports and microsims; would be cool if I could load a flavour of linux on this
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>not that that would make it automatically better...
08:29<chillcore>but that will be too much to ask and I do nnot expect it
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08:30<chillcore>fapple sounds nice ...
08:30<chillcore>for the fanboys ...
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes. the f stands for fanboy :p
08:31<chillcore>the watch cabn help you fapple better and longer
08:31<chillcore>with that strap
08:31<chillcore>hmm tgen light ...
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>the motion based recharger? :=)
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08:32<chillcore>they should let us run their campaings
08:33<chillcore>do it faster better longer with the fapple watch
08:33<chillcore>in case of elevated heartrate we'll call your doctor
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>oh, reminds me of this:
08:36<chillcore>that face
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08:37<chillcore>it not running yet ... need some trickery in firefox
08:37*chillcore opens firebug gui
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>what trickery? either flash or html5. it's not black magic...
08:38<chillcore>all is blocked
08:38<chillcore>all of it
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>you can't block the cake and eat it too
08:38<chillcore>a click or ten solves it
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>just open youtube urls in VLC, man :)
08:38<chillcore>just need to lnwo what to click eddi
08:39<chillcore>hmm I can do that? testing
08:41<chillcore>nope nice system of mine ... doing exactly what I want it do no and nothing more
08:41<chillcore>back to firebug
08:43<chillcore>I would not recommend my sytem if you want convenience :P
08:44*Eddi|zuHause imagines you as this kind of monk that slap themselves with a whip all the time
08:45*chillcore thinks that is ferfectly fine to think that ... it is a matter of what is more important to you
08:46<chillcore>and you are not alone in thinking that
08:46<chillcore>I had a talk aith my brother in law the other day, he is in analytics
08:46<chillcore>we talked about exactly that
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: screenshot 54 seems like a giant pain to play in. needs more flat areas in the valleys. screenshot 55 needs to avoid the water spots in the valley. screenshot 56 we are back with the flat plateaus and dents in the ground
08:51<chillcore>after an hour proclaiming the benifits and the importance of being able to collect data, "so we can make that button bigger so it is easier for you, it is all for you the user we do this", he sais ... "but I do get me some adds with recomendations of friends from time to time and I think they got the names out of my phone instead of pc since they were not there"
08:52<chillcore>thank you for the feedback eddi, yes peaks need to be futher apart I know
08:52<chillcore>what about the steepness of said peaks in itself?
08:52<chillcore>^^^ ignoring the rest kinda
08:52<chillcore>also size?
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, peaks are fine. just valleys need a bit of extending
08:53<chillcore>coolios thank you, note this will only be possible without variation or else you only get a few of them
08:54<chillcore>but I can work with what you said
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>sure. let's tackle variation later :p
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>"but i need this counting of +2 to work first, before i can do anything"
08:58<chillcore>almost done .... just need to be able to load these M games in vanilla without causing troubs
08:59<chillcore>also lower revisions
08:59<chillcore>not my idea I swear
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes. make it so i can load trunk games in Chill's Patchpack so i can use the newgrfs in it!
09:00<chillcore>but no really I tried telling him all was fine if he could load old games and have thiings working
09:00<chillcore>which was the case somewhat
09:01<chillcore>but him being him ... no is not an option
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really think he understands sentences...
09:01<chillcore>I do not know what to think anymore
09:02<chillcore>he's not a bad kid but ...
09:02<chillcore>or man
09:02<chillcore>don't know his age
09:02<chillcore>I really hope he's a kid cause
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>he said something about dropping out of university
09:02<chillcore>ye years ago
09:02<chillcore>when he left us
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>because he couldn't understand it...
09:03<chillcore>I've got his working remove rivers here
09:04<chillcore>before he deletes it ... he was already planning to remove some stuffs because ... no idea why
09:04<chillcore>clean up the topic or something
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know... he did something like this before. "i got this mostly working. let's revert everything and start from scratch"
09:05<chillcore>I just hope for him he finds out sooner or later about that not needed savegambump
09:05<chillcore>s or/rather then
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>and by "from scratch" i don't mean "let's review what we've learned and do it properly", but "ask all the newbie questions again the same way"
09:06<chillcore>so sad
09:06<chillcore>but what can we do he does not listen to noone
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>do us and him a favour and ban him...
09:06<chillcore>unless you yell at him ... which is not pleasant for me
09:07<chillcore>I am no maso
09:07<chillcore>nor sado
09:08<chillcore>maybe a bit in regards pc security/privacy but it stops there :P
09:10<chillcore>I have banning powers?
09:10<chillcore>@kick chillcore
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09:16<chillcore>hehe that ended well last time for you
09:16<V453000>fuck you DorpsGek
09:16<chillcore>was it not you
09:16<chillcore>@calc 1 + 1
09:16<@DorpsGek>chillcore: 2
09:16<chillcore>it's alive alright
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: if by "banning power" you mean "ask an op to do it", then yes
09:28<chillcore>lol 3 clicks to remocve the "an error occured" still no adds
09:28<chillcore>12 more clicks no more tracking
09:28<chillcore>Google should give me job for being able to solve their errors
09:29<chillcore>"Fun and pretty"
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried adblock?
09:29<chillcore>got that and a ton of others
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: yes. that conversation was an hour ago :p
09:29<chillcore>want the list?
09:30<chillcore>I know I just took the time now to try
09:30<chillcore>I m rarely in a rush
09:31<chillcore>unless someone is waiting for me right now for whatever I have all the time in the world
09:31<chillcore>no watch on my wrist for the past 25 years
09:31<chillcore>no phones when I go out
09:31<chillcore>stuff like that
09:31<chillcore>simple life
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>i only have a phone because my boss made me...
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>he also pays for it
09:32<chillcore>me because I do not need/want a landline
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>or rather the company
09:32<chillcore>I recharge prepaid
09:32<chillcore>once every blue moon
09:32<chillcore>instead of paying each month for nada
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09:33<chillcore>I needed to call my ISP this morning for something ... "Do you want tele for just 6 euros a month" ... nope
09:34<chillcore>something was just the correct banc account nr nothing else
09:34<chillcore>I do do normal stuffs too sometimes :P
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12:37<Samu>so who's testing my patches
12:37<Samu>im not getting much replies
12:39<@Alberth>posts don't say anything about that
12:39<@Alberth>also, posting unfinished patches, and lots of versions of patches doesn't really invite to try them
12:40<Samu>chillcore told me to post unfinished patches :(
12:41<@Alberth>look at your own posts: It's a patch file, with "this does <something>"
12:41<@Alberth>nothing else
12:42<@Alberth>how is someone supposed to know what he should do with it?
12:42<@Alberth>or what you want from him?
12:43<Xaroth|Work>o/ Alberth
12:44<@Alberth>o/ working xaroth
12:44<Xaroth|Work>I have done something dangerous today.. I've written multiple lines of C code :|
12:44<Xaroth|Work>and it didn't even crash and burn on me
12:44<Xaroth|Work>I'm still shocked
12:45<Samu>I told him some of the patches where unfinished, he told me to post nevertheless
12:46<Samu>why do you disagree with each other
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12:46<@Alberth>so a very lucky day, today, Xaroth
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12:46<@Alberth>Samu: different people, different opinions
12:47<@Alberth>the world would be so boring if everybody agreed with everybody else on everything :)
12:48<Samu>he especially insisted on that one about permanent rivers
12:48<@Alberth>he probably has a good reason for it
12:49<@Alberth>I may be wrong, it's all possible
12:50<Samu>when I look at my whole thread
12:50<Samu>it's a mess
12:50<Samu>the forum doesn't help much either, I can't delete my own topics, only edit them, and I can't attach more than 3 files
12:51<Samu>in 1 post
12:51<@Alberth>in general, don't bother about the past, it's done
12:52<@Alberth>think about how to improve for the next time
12:53<@Alberth>hello Terkhen
13:07<chillcore><Samu> chillcore told me to post unfinished patches :( <- eh? I asked you to keep the patches seperate because that is easier to review for us and easier to maintain for you ... you had finished your no permanent rivers patch and I wanted you to post that before starting with the restore rivers patch if canal is destroyed patch
13:08<chillcore>they are both again in one patch but ok I can split them when I am done reviewing no prob
13:08<chillcore>so far I am very pleased with both
13:08<Samu>the permanent rivers patch alone, makes no sense
13:08<chillcore>o/ alberth, Terkhen everybody
13:09<Samu>you can build a canal on a river, and canals don't restore a river...
13:09<@Alberth>everybody sends his regards to chillcore
13:09<chillcore>for you nothing makes sense samu, except your own thoughts
13:09<chillcore>Thank you alberth
13:10<chillcore>Samu ... just to be clear ... savegames can NOT be loaded in old versions of openttd only in newer
13:10<chillcore>I tried telling you this three times yesterday if not more
13:10<chillcore>anyhoo I have not yet tested any of your other patches so can not give feedback
13:10<Samu>i bumped version
13:10<chillcore>yes needless?
13:11<Xaroth|Work>Alberth: quite so
13:11<chillcore>can you load your savegame in a old version now? samu
13:11<Xaroth|Work>well, more like glad I didn't wtfpwn my zpool :|
13:11<chillcore>I has some tunning to do
13:11<chillcore>and told ya so
13:11<chillcore>you just do not want to hear untill you see yourself
13:12<chillcore>fiine for me
13:12<chillcore>you'll get it sometime
13:12<chillcore>I hope
13:12<Samu>my savegame version stores owners differently, and old openttd can't deal with it
13:13<chillcore>what did I just say? ... tuning my patch
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13:15<Samu>my openttd version can however load old savegames and convert them correctly
13:16<chillcore>I have an idea ... if (not happy) { checkout r1; patch it; then patch r+1 while r<current trunk;}
13:17<chillcore>I really do not know what to say anymore
13:17<chillcore>I will give you feedback on that rivers patch no prob
13:17<chillcore>when I have some
13:18<Samu>please do, I appreciate the time you take on checking it out
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13:18<Samu>now I can move on to adding the option
13:19<Samu>re-use the game setting
13:19<Samu>the so called step 1
13:19<chillcore>as you wish
13:20<chillcore>final time I will repeat ... old verions of openttd do not load savegames mde with newer versions
13:20<chillcore>^^^ do you get this yes/no? strike as needed
13:23<chillcore>I guess not ... :(
13:23<Samu>I got it working like that
13:23<chillcore>cool samu
13:23<chillcore>so long you are happy me is happy too ;)
13:29*chillcore has no clue what is working yet
13:31<chillcore>s yet/anymore
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27203 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-03-23 18:45:14 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 4 changes by daishan
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13:52<chillcore>I really do not get this code ...
13:55<chillcore>who needs ret.failed anyways
13:56<chillcore>no failsafe ... must work
13:58<chillcore>If I were not busy ... I am realy curious what heppens when you try to serve a dock that is yours but the 'pier' (<- english?) does not belong to you
13:59<chillcore>oh well time will tell :P
14:04<Samu>I've edited my original post
14:04<Samu>maybe it gives the topic some direction now
14:05<Samu>hopefully it's less confusing
14:12<chillcore>what I do not get samu ... who owns that dock
14:12<Samu>whoever built it
14:13<chillcore>both tiles?
14:13<Samu>no, only the slope tile
14:13<chillcore>have you tries sending ships there at all?
14:13<chillcore>from different companies atthe same time?
14:14<Samu>nope, not that
14:14<Samu>let me try
14:14<chillcore>do ships sil through it?
14:14<chillcore>that kinda stuffs
14:15<chillcore>what happens when that dock becomes part of another station
14:15<chillcore>be it rail road air
14:15<chillcore>s sil/sail
14:15<Samu>tested ship from competitor, can't assign order
14:16<chillcore>k and your own?
14:16<chillcore>and so on
14:16<chillcore>you've got alot of testing to do
14:16<Samu>my own ships can go there
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14:16<Samu>building other stations was tested yesterday
14:16<Samu>it works
14:16<chillcore>do they go around that water tile or right through it samu
14:17<chillcore>just test and then reprt later
14:17<chillcore>to the author :P
14:18<Samu>yep, they go around the pier
14:18<Samu>they're not going through it
14:18<Samu>they can dock in front of the pier too
14:19<Samu>everything looks to be working correctly
14:19<Samu>trains can go to the train station adjacent to the dock
14:20<Samu>let me test catchment area
14:20<chillcore>and so on yes
14:20<chillcore>no need toreport every little detail
14:20<chillcore>was just pointing out one more step you did not do
14:21<chillcore>namely testing
14:22<Samu>yup, catchment area is also fine
14:22<Samu>the pier is taken into account
14:23<Samu>can't build a dock in front of the pier of a competitor dock, also fine
14:26<Samu>same error consistency for several construction failures
14:27<Samu>can't build a bridge over, can't demolish competitor pier
14:30<Samu>but indeed, querying the pier tile, comes up with some other owner
14:30<Samu>the same bug happens with locks
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14:34<Samu>and buoys
14:37<chillcore>who needs that tile anyway right?
14:38<Samu>it retains the owner of the water
14:38<Samu>if it is a canal by someone else, then retains the owner of the canal
14:39<chillcore>cool I giess ... or not?
14:39<Samu>I did the same as the lock
14:39<Samu>so, it's cool
14:39<@Alberth>I mostly fail to understand why you'd build a canal over a river
14:39<chillcore>also destroying it may give you some troubs now?
14:40<chillcore>since that tile is not yours no more
14:40<Samu>nope, it comes up with the dock owner error
14:40<Samu>it's fine
14:40<Samu>even thought the canal could be mine
14:40<chillcore>ah so you cannot destroy it anymore
14:40<chillcore>sound good yes ... not
14:41<Samu>well, drive-through road stops already work like that
14:41<chillcore>hmm ...
14:41<Samu>you can't disagree with one if you like the other
14:41<chillcore>ofcourse I forgot to agree
14:41<chillcore>forgive me
14:41<chillcore>all is good samu
14:42<chillcore>just getting it in trunk may be a bit problematic
14:42<chillcore>it is opensource samu
14:42<Samu>you may build drive-through road stops on roads owned by a competitor
14:42<chillcore>GPL v2
14:42<Samu>the competitor then can't remove the road
14:42<chillcore>your wish is a s good as anyone elses
14:42<Samu>now the same happens for the dock
14:42<chillcore>no kidding holmes
14:43<Samu>you may build docks on canals owned by a competittor
14:43<Samu>the competitor then can't remove the canal
14:43<chillcore>if you are happy so am I samu
14:44<Samu>it's same principle, isn't it
14:44<chillcore>can you destroy your own dock?
14:44<chillcore>that was what I was asking before
14:44<chillcore>you said no
14:44<Samu>my own canal, no
14:44<Samu>that's what I was answering
14:45<chillcore>ofcourse I should have guessed
14:45<chillcore>jump from dock to canal and back at random
14:45<chillcore>thx for sharing
14:46<chillcore>what are we talking about now? just so I know
14:46<Samu>it's hard to understand what you say, sometimes, you put some sarcasm tone on it
14:47<chillcore>ok I won't anymore
14:47<chillcore>do 1 thing a ta time seriously
14:47<chillcore>at a*
14:49<chillcore>do you have all your patches aplied at the same time or so?
14:50<chillcore>just asking
14:50<Samu>currently only the dock on competitor canal patch
14:50<Samu>applied to last revision
14:51<Samu>whatever you call it
14:51<chillcore>rxxxxx but good enough
14:51<chillcore>much better thank you
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14:55<Wolf01>hi hi
14:55<chillcore><Alberth> I mostly fail to understand why you'd build a canal over a river <- because you can?
14:55<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
14:56<chillcore>not sure if that is trunk behaviour ... testing
14:56<Wolf01>moar lego!
14:56<chillcore>o/ wolf
14:56<@Alberth>bigger house!
14:56<Wolf01>there's no tomorrow, let's buy all the sets
14:56<chillcore>buy all the legos
14:56<@Alberth>at worst, there is tomorrow but then you can try them all!
14:58<Wolf01>also I placed a PAB order because reasons
14:58<@Alberth>good enough for me :)
14:59<chillcore>Personal Adress Book? nvm replying ;)
15:00<Wolf01>me and my coworker "we should limit our lego purchases... we said no-purchases-march"... "oh, but there are double vip points on lego shop"
15:02<Wolf01>saturday it was the best scene: a child chosing between 2 lego mixels because he could buy only one... I purchased 32 of them
15:03<Wolf01>almost emptied the box
15:03<chillcore>is there an LA near you?
15:04<chillcore>AA but for Lego? :P
15:04<Wolf01>ok, I got the "L"
15:05<Wolf01>ah ok, no, but it should
15:06<Wolf01>AFOLs might be very addicted
15:06<chillcore>yes ... I can hardly pass a game mania and there is always something
15:07<chillcore>I take a detour most of the times just because
15:07<chillcore>not past the store that is
15:08<chillcore>not that I spend a fortune but it adds up
15:08<Wolf01>and I still have to now how much want the dentist
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15:20<frosch>hai again :)
15:21-!-zwamkat [] has joined #openttd
15:22<frosch>@kick frosch123 mwhwhwhw
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15:25<chillcore>@lberth: why would you want to remove overbuilding rivers with canals from trunk?
15:25<chillcore>hmm +A
15:26<chillcore>would you still alow widening them?
15:27<chillcore>that would be nice yes, also river slopes can not be traversed without lock it seems ...
15:28<@Alberth>indeed, you need a lock to overcome any height difference
15:31<chillcore>I just noticed ... that is how much I play with ships :P
15:31-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
15:31<chillcore>maybe because they used to be bad at pathfinding
15:32<@Alberth>they still are, but less :)
15:32-!-shirish_ [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
15:33<@Alberth>the jump-point search algorithm seems better suited for it, but it needs to be changed for openttd
15:34<@Alberth>it assumes you move in 8 directions from the center of a tile, while openttd does that at an edge between tiles (in 6 directions)
15:36<chillcore>on of the HL bots had something a like too
15:36<chillcore>HL1 that is
15:36<chillcore>but you needed to give it nodes
15:36<chillcore>Half Life 1
15:37<chillcore>much like buoys but they had a radius on top of a connection
15:38-!-shirish [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:38<chillcore>as long as the bot was inside this radius it had freedom to move instead of being forced from single point to single point
15:39-!-roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
15:39<chillcore>just not for ladders, which was a feat since most bots could not cope with that
15:40<chillcore>I thought it may be usefull for aircraft to navigate between mountains
15:40<chillcore>just an idea I had long time ago
15:41<chillcore>but could perhaps serrve ships too?
15:41<chillcore>gives slightly more freedom even
15:42<chillcore>no idea whtaimpact that would give on performance though
15:42<chillcore>max 16 bots versus 1000 ships
15:44<chillcore>but yeah from middle of tile will already give smoother sailing
15:45<chillcore>I just had a ship comeout of a dept and go back in to get to exit the other side
15:45<chillcore>hmm no sense makes
15:45<chillcore>I changed sentence midway
15:46<chillcore>- get to
15:51<@Alberth>don't think it would help much, you still have to find a path over the tiles with point-to-point
15:52<@Alberth>which drops you back to the current path finding approach
15:53-!-Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55<chillcore>yeah except you would no longer be bound to a specific point on a tile at all
15:55<chillcore>still point to pint ;)
15:55<chillcore>and point too
15:55<Wolf01>nice, my keyboard has anti-ghosting, I could press "ASDFGH" and register them all, but not "WSV" :P
15:57<@peter1138>Hmm, only 6 keys registered
15:58<chillcore>industry standard it sems
15:58<@peter1138>n-key rollover sort of... working.
15:59<Wolf01>it could be useful when playing magicka...
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16:07<Samu>i can't have WSD pressed at the same time :(
16:07<Samu>no wonder WASD controls were behaving different than arrow keys
16:08-!-Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:08<chillcore>wsd haha
16:08<chillcore>or bof
16:13<@peter1138>aswd :)
16:14<Samu>that's why I was losign races in Need for Speed :(
16:14<Samu>now I know
16:14<@peter1138>No, that's because NFS sucks.
16:15<chillcore>racing games with keyboard? the last one I played like that was grand prix monaco
16:15-!-frosch [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:22<V453000>some IT dude told me that the n-key rollover is borken with USB and only works with PS2 connector
16:22<V453000>but now I got daskeyboard 4 and they sez it works with USB
16:22<V453000>so idk :D
16:26<chillcore>MAX_TGP_FREQUENCIES ... so this was defined but not used for the array at all ... die magic nrs :P
16:28<@peter1138>Yeah, G27 works better.
16:29<@peter1138>V453000, USB keyboard spec doesn't allow it. However they can get around it by pretending to be multiple keyboards, or something like that.
16:29<Wolf01>yeah, my G510 is listed as 3 keyboards on the device manager
16:30-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
16:30<@peter1138>Probably one of those is for the display on that one.
16:30<@peter1138>hid-generic 0003:0F39:1083.0008: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.10 Keyboard [DK2108S] on usb-0000:00:1a.2-2/input0
16:30<@peter1138>hid-generic 0003:0F39:1083.0009: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Device [DK2108S] on usb-0000:00:1a.2-2/input1
16:30<V453000>right :)
16:31<V453000>where can I find that?
16:31<V453000>on doze
16:31<@peter1138>dmesg :p
16:31<V453000>nice stuff
16:31<V453000>sez not a command :D
16:33<V453000>hmm in device manager I see 2 keyboards, but I think one is 3D mouse
16:34<V453000>(even though the 3D mouse isnt connected to the PC)
16:34<Wolf01>a what?
16:35<V453000> :d
16:35<@peter1138>Redirects me to
16:35<V453000>good XD
16:36<V453000>regardless, I think this shit declared itself as a keyboard
16:37<Wolf01>lol... even games: 2nd life ...
16:37<Wolf01>ok, multiwinia, does it really need that?
16:38<V453000>idk, but I think the 3D mouse is just bullshit
16:38<V453000>I gave it to colleague, I never used it
16:38<Wolf01>bah, no sketchup
16:38<Wolf01>maya is too difficult for me :P
16:38<V453000>on paper it sounds cute, but having to put your hand away from the keyboard just to move your view in max slows you down way more than just doing it normally
16:39<Wolf01>I have a 2004 giveaway version
16:40<V453000>of maya?
16:40<Terkhen>good night
16:40<V453000>well if you are starting to learn, it doesnt really matter at all if you use maya,max,blender, or whatever else
16:41<V453000>cinema 4D is nice too
16:41<Wolf01>they pushed out a new version and let the registered people to download the old one
16:41<Wolf01>'night Terkhen
16:42<V453000>I am seriously considering starting to learn blender
16:42<V453000>but then ... :(
16:42<Wolf01>I used blender and wings3d for some tutorials, but I feel better with sketchup
16:42<Wolf01>too bad I'm not good at modeling
16:42<V453000>it is SO stupidly different from max, and so unintuitive, that it is just arse
16:42<Wolf01>I do everything by hand knowing there is a better way
16:43<V453000>by hand?
16:43<Wolf01>yes, like when I had to model a bookcase
16:44<Wolf01>what do you do when you find everything does not have any thickness
16:45<V453000>eh depends in which way :)
16:45<V453000>max has a "shell" modifier which is kind of a hack and doesnt do it very properly, but you can fatten polygons with it
16:45<V453000>dragging polys manually is best :)
16:46<Wolf01>I forgot shelfs need thickness too, then I added it by hand (line by line) because I don't know how to do it XD
16:46<V453000>ah right
16:46<V453000>well, I like doing stuff the "older way"
16:46<Wolf01>finding all the shelf were 1cm offset
16:46<__ln__>Wolf01: *shelves
16:46<V453000>we use a lot of plugins at work for generating stuff, we dont have time to make models of trees or whatnot
16:46<V453000>but using the plugins is not fun tbh
16:46<Wolf01>__ln__: it's like dwarfs
16:47<juzza1>and vertexes
16:48<Wolf01>the problem is when you need to do it in short time, if you don't have the knowledge to do certai things you are fucked
16:48<V453000>well sure, short deadlines are always fucked up
16:51<V453000>nyway, me off
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17:30<@Rubidium>aqua regina
17:30<Samu>ret = CheckTileOwnership(tile + delta); how do I exclude OWNER_NONE from causing error?
17:31<Samu>if OWNER_NONE, I don't want it to tell me "owned by someone"
17:31<Samu>but accept
17:34<chillcore>if (!OWNER_NONE) ret;
17:34<chillcore>assuming that is what you really want
17:34<chillcore>no idea
17:35*Rubidium imagines what the patch is going to look like in a few minutes and almost laugh his arse off
17:36<chillcore>ye a bit little info
17:36<Samu>if (! && IsWaterTile(tile + delta) && GetWaterClass(tile + delta) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL) {
17:37<Samu>ret = CheckTileOwnership(tile + delta);
17:37<Samu>if (ret.Failed()) return ret;
17:37<Samu>OWNER_NONE is lame :(
17:38<Samu>i am re-using that setting, I know the name is misleading
17:38<Samu>don't mind
17:40<Samu>hmm IsCanal(tile + delta)
17:41<Samu> if (! && IsCanal(tile - delta)) {
17:42<Samu>gah... owned by someone why
17:44<chillcore>then what I posted might not be correct ;)
17:45-!-Igor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:48<Samu>woah, now I'm getting assertions
17:49<Samu>I really hate assertions
17:51<Samu>HasTileWaterClass = WATER_CLASS_CANAL is better than IsCanal
17:51<Samu>no more assertions
17:55<Samu>FINALLY, got it working
17:55<Samu>if (! && HasTileWaterClass(tile - delta) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && GetTileOwner(tile - delta) != OWNER_NONE) {
17:56<chillcore>don't forget to test properly ;)
17:57<Samu>gonna put a oil rig adjacent to a coast to test
17:59<Samu>gah stupid assertion
17:59<Samu>ok, && !IsOilRig
18:04<Samu>doesn't work
18:04<Samu>i am sad
18:08<Samu>any idea?
18:13<chillcore>not without knowing what it is you want to do
18:15<Samu> if (! && !HasTileWaterGround(tile + delta) && GetTileOwner(tile + delta) != OWNER_NONE) {
18:15<Samu>it works
18:15<Samu>oil rig in the way, finally
18:16<Samu>no more assertions in the way
18:18<Samu>trying a buoy
18:19-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
18:19<Samu>buoy in the way
18:23<Samu>the code so far:
18:24<Samu>i dont know how to edit strings, I've never edited one before
18:24<Samu>edit what it currently says
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18:28<ST2>lang folder and english.txt
18:29<Samu>hmm, thx
18:29<ST2>start there, I guess others are changed by translators (and even this one - but if changing anything, start there, imo :)
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18:30<chillcore>yes patches should only modify englsh.txt
18:30<chillcore>unless you are doing something that will never be commited anyway
18:30<chillcore>eg. patchpacks
18:39<Samu>Allow drive-through road stops on roads owned by competitors: {STRING2}
18:39<Samu>this would be better as a separate setting
18:40<Samu>Allow docks on canals owned by competitors
18:40<chillcore>you could do that
18:40<chillcore>but do you need to?
18:41<Samu>Allow drive-through road stops or docks on roads or canals owned by competitors
18:41<Samu>woah, horrible
18:43<Samu>it's not only docks either
18:43<chillcore>docks on roads seems a bad idea indeed :P
18:43<Samu>docks and locks and ship depots (hopefully I can do for them too)
18:45<chillcore>hmm ...
18:46<chillcore>allow infrastucture to be built on comptiors roads/canals?
18:47<chillcore>but with correct spelling ... xD
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18:50<Samu>Allow stuff on competitor stuff
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18:51<Samu>Allow construction of certain structures to be built on competitors infrastructure
18:51<Samu>hmm too long
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19:00<Samu>Allow certain construction on infrastructure owned by competitors
19:03<chillcore>that is very vague samu
19:04<chillcore>Allow certain constructions on roads/canals owned by competitors
19:06<chillcore>people will think they can infrastucture share which is not the case
19:06-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
19:07<chillcore>at least not in the way people understand that ...
19:08<ST2>well, maybe an outdated opinion, and despite the fact that I'm not a fan of water transportation
19:08<ST2>I must agree with Samu in one thing: canals are like roads
19:09<ST2>I maybe telled the most stupid thinghy, but that's because not used to water stuff ^^
19:09<chillcore>ships could alrreeady go there ...
19:10<chillcore>so yeah
19:11<chillcore>If you say IS peple will think choochoos too and aircraft ... and station usage
19:12<ST2>and I used "telled" instead og told, that enough stupid for 1 night xD
19:12<chillcore>that is a can of worms and not something samu should attempt IMHO
19:12<chillcore>at least not any time soon
19:12<ST2>damn I hate this fuc##$ing new keyboard :S
19:12<chillcore>join the club
19:13<ST2>haha xD
19:13<chillcore>I have my G buttons on the side and keep hitting G5/G6 which default to F5 F6
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19:14<ST2>well, I know Samu is VERY good on gather information, that's a fact
19:14<ST2>but from there to get things right, it's a long distance
19:15<ST2>I make my incursions on C++ (OpenTTD included), some in C# and Squirrel (gotta love the nut.s)
19:16<ST2>but still a noob on them all :D
19:16<ST2>part of my hobbies ^^
19:18<ST2>but maybe Samu got more advantages that myself could do, because maybe I've spent more time trying to understand a bit of C++
19:18<ST2>maybe now I'm more confortable with the basic things, but doesn't mean I'm for the rest
19:18<ST2>and for that, my respect, to all :)
19:20<chillcore>scripting can be cool too ... no need to recompile
19:20<chillcore>and faster results most of the time
19:20<ST2>indeed ;)
19:21<ST2>but our server plugins are in C# - well, they are precompiled each server start, wich helps
19:21<chillcore>too much freedom like c++ is not always the best thing neither
19:21<ST2>but that means shutdown server, start it again ^^
19:22<chillcore>script for the script
19:22<ST2>but at least allow us to use many many functions without change openttd code :)
19:22<ST2>by the use of admin port
19:23<ST2>wich has his limitations too ^^
19:24<Samu>my code is wrong again
19:24<ST2>but since I can't do better - with my current knowledges - it's perfect xD
19:26<ST2>Samu: I dnt see any STR_(something) there
19:26<supermop>other than mart3p who knows how to code stations?
19:27<supermop>i don't count myself because my MLSS is total garbage
19:27<Samu>i need help again, because this code is still not right
19:27<chillcore>the only thing I ever hacked toghether is my flat_blacktiles_grf supermop
19:28<chillcore>it has offsets and that is it
19:28<chillcore>need lots more code to become a proper newgrf
19:28<chillcore>not my cup of tea
19:29<Samu>!HasTileWaterGround(tile - delta)
19:29<Samu>still not the right thing
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19:30<chillcore>have a look at openttdcoop? there should be a template somewhere?
19:30<supermop>hmm samu my game has a few frustrating parts where river failed to carve all the way to sea
19:30<supermop>are you working on something for that
19:30<Samu>nop, not really
19:31<Samu>i am trying to make the game forbid placing a lock on a canal owned by the competitor
19:31<chillcore>config file supermop set river lenght and bendyness is just under it
19:32<chillcore>30 is nice 50 is amazing on large maps
19:32<chillcore>5 for the other setting
19:32<chillcore>rivers not only stop at sea but also lakes ;)
19:32<supermop>its all in places where a town seems to block the valley so itshad for me to fix
19:32<Samu>the problem is that there are canals as a structure thing, and canals as a waterclass
19:32<supermop>the lakes are more annoying -
19:33<Samu>hard to distinguish this
19:33<chillcore>eh rivers should be generated before towns?
19:33<supermop>hydrologically, where does all the water flowing into the lake go
19:33<Samu>kinda like road of type road vs road of type tram
19:33<chillcore>in the matrix
19:33<supermop>the rivers are forming lakes because they cannot get to the sea
19:33<supermop>i could fix in SE
19:34<chillcore>ye or canals
19:34<supermop>and also add a few convenient industries while im in there
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19:34<supermop>no canal waterfall
19:34<chillcore>you can do that ingame too if you are really rich
19:34<Samu>yeah, industries can be built on canals, both waterclass canal and canal canal
19:34<supermop>there should be a weir for canal on slope without lock
19:35<chillcore>no but with the setting I told you crazy (sometimes) deltas
19:35<Samu>for this specific check I am trying to forbid canal canal
19:35<Samu>any help?
19:35<chillcore>needs new game though
19:35<supermop>delta is ok on flat land
19:35<chillcore>can you not do the checking where the other checks happen samu
19:36<chillcore>and let ret execute normally
19:36<Samu>when ret executes, i get an assertion about mismatching cost
19:36<Samu>between estimated and actual
19:36<chillcore>hmm I never touch this part really
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19:37<Samu>it is adding the cost of clearing the canal, even though it's not clearing it, it is checking against it
19:37<Samu>if it finds a canal
19:37<Samu>don't build
19:37<Samu>or build depending on owner
19:37<Samu>on that settings i mean
19:37<chillcore>yes supermop it is
19:38<Samu>don't add the cost
19:38<chillcore>I amm too tired right now to concentrate on this properly samu sorry
19:39<chillcore>very short nigh it has been
19:40<chillcore>2.5 hours and not being able to sleep no more :/
19:40<chillcore>I need 4
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19:42<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> aqua regina <-- i thought it was "aqua regia"?
19:44<Samu>ok let me start from the beginning again
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19:45<chillcore>samu I am too tired but go ahead maybe someone else will assist you
19:45<chillcore>also I really really suck atthat part of the code
19:45<Samu>ok, no prob
19:47<Samu>when this setting is off if (! {
19:47<Samu>i want the game to perform a check
19:47<chillcore>what I can tell you is that you need to find that other place too where the strings are returned
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19:48<chillcore>has been a long time I did an itsy bitsy there and I did not like doing it
19:48<supermop>i think im going to draw stations next - I want a gantry that spans teo tiles
19:48<supermop>these isr gantries seem only wide enough to pick stuff up and put it back on the same train
19:48<Samu>ret = DoCommand(tile - delta, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
19:48<Samu>this code here
19:49<Samu>is adding the cost for clearing, i dont want it to add the cost
19:49<Samu>only want it to make sure the canal is owned by the company
19:50<chillcore>I really have no idea honestly
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19:51<chillcore>look where CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR is?
19:51<chillcore>maybe there is another there that you use and then if else?
19:52<chillcore>like dutch stations?
19:53<chillcore>supermop ^^^
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19:58<supermop>well i'll start by drawing
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: i'm fiddling with ignore lists currently. so if you ever want to say anything to me, use my full nickname ("eddi" won't suffice), or i probably miss it
20:11-!-Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:11<chillcore>Eddi|zuHouse: ok thanks for the notification
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>that is not the right name :)
20:11<chillcore>how do I select someone again?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>use the "tab" key
20:12<chillcore>no dice
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>begin typing a name, then the tab key (usually) completes that name
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20:13<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: got it
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>almost all chat clients i ever used supported that
20:14<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: ye just E did not work
20:14<chillcore>Edd did
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>it might refuse to complete when it's ambiguous
20:15<chillcore>like that
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>if it is ambiguous, one of two things usually happens: 1) it shows a list of options, or 2) it cycles through the list
20:16<chillcore>It showed me options that may or may not be visible to you too now?
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>there may be ways to configure which one is used
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>they are only visible to you
20:16<chillcore>yes I just checked in the logs
20:16<chillcore>kinda confusing but ok
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>btw. this also works on the linux console, showing you commands you might wish to run, or filenames you wish to hand over as parameter
20:18<chillcore>nic to know that ... if in doubt I use --help
20:18<chillcore>but that is a cool feature also
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>it's context sensitive and programs can supply custom completition lists. like if you type "hg <tab>" on the console, it lists you the special hg commands (commit, push, etc.)
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>on my console, i need to type <tab> twice if it's ambiguous
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20:22<Eddi|zuHause>(this is a feature that people just assume the other person they're talking to also knows, so it's rarely talked about)
20:24<chillcore>planetmaker once told me about it for irc but then I tried with not enough characters and thought it was my client
20:24<chillcore>I will try it in my console too once I have it back open
20:25<chillcore>I was just about to try and catch up on some sleep
20:27<chillcore>try being the keyword ...
20:28<chillcore>Good night all
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20:45<Samu>please help me, I can't figure this out
20:52<Samu>if (!HasTileWaterGround(tile - delta))
20:52<Samu>what happens if it is a canal?
20:54<Samu>what happens if it's a ground tile
20:54<Samu>i don't know how to do this check
20:55<Samu>if it finds a structure, such as an oil rig or so, then I don't want it to fail
20:56<Samu>if it finds a ground tile, i want it to pass
20:56<Samu>pff, im confused, let me organize my mind
21:01<Samu>ok here I go again, I want it to:
21:01<Samu>1 - fail if it's an oil rig, buoy, something like that
21:02<Samu>2 - pass if canal, but then fail if the canal is not of the same owner
21:02<Samu>3 - pass if canal, but pass if owner is none, or self or water
21:02<Samu>4 - don't add the cost if it passes all checks
21:02<Samu>how can I do this
21:03<Samu>3 - pass if canal, and* pass if owner is none, or self or water (sorry typo)
21:04<Samu>there's yet another step
21:04<Samu>5 - fail if ground
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21:22<Jon__>hello all
21:22<Jon__>I was wondering if anyone could help me understand how YAPF works
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21:28<Supercheese>It's pretty magick to me
21:42<Eddi|zuHause>Jon__: depends on what you want to do with it
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21:46<Eddi|zuHause>Jon__: the principle is very simple, actually: you provide it with a "follow track" function, which defines which tiles are considered "neighbours", and a penalty for travelling to such neighbours. and it throws out the shortest path according to these penalties. or more specifically the direction you need to turn next
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>Jon__: it does this with the A* algorithm, which you can look up in any book
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>Jon__: and the deeper level of the templating stuff is there to make it fast. you probably don't need to look at this.
21:48<Jon__>Ok, I think I understand that part, as I am familiar with A*. I’d like to know how YAPF and OTTD implement the pathfinding. What I mean is, I’ve looked through the docs and source code a bit, and it seems like it does all of its pathfinding based on which neighbor is the fastest to the destination, is that correct? Like it doesn’t find the whole path first, it does it on a tile-by-tile basis
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>it calculates the full path
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>but it throws everything away, except for the next turn
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>so it must run again when another switch is encountered
21:49<Jon__>oh ok, so it finds a new path everytime it encouters a switch?
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>(some of the penalties are situational, so the shortest path may have changed by then)
21:50<Jon__>yeah, like the signals might change or something
21:50<Jon__>so at every switch, it takes the info from that switch, feeds it to the pathfinding, and then it takes that result to determine its next move?
21:50<Eddi|zuHause>some of the data is cached, for efficiency
21:51<Jon__>so say a vehicle is chugging along and it encouters a red signal. Will the pathfinding still return a path to the destination, or will it detect the red signal and say that the vehicle shouldn’t move?
21:52<Eddi|zuHause>pathfinding and vehicle movement are two independent steps
21:53<Jon__>ok, so it will still find the path, and the vehicle movement will decide what to do with that info?
21:53<Eddi|zuHause>a vehicle moves along the track it is currently on, over and over, until there is a branch in the next tile. then the pathfinder is invoked, to tell it where to go
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>to find out how a train moves, look at the TrainController function
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>but basically, each tile consists of 16 individual steps that the vehicle can take on that tile
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>the interesting bits happen when it leaves a tile, and enters the next tile
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>if that next tile is a red signal, some magic is invoked to keep the train from entering that tile
21:56<Eddi|zuHause>but the path is still valid, even if the signal is red
21:56<Eddi|zuHause>red signals just have higher penalties
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21:57<Jon__>awesome, thanks, I’ll take a look at that. And ok, that makes sense. So there is some look ahead in the movement to let the train know to stop moving if it encouters a signal? And the penalty of the red signals are taken into account in the pathfinding?
21:57<Jon__>which lets it know to take a route not involving a red signal
21:58<Jon__>so the source/docs I’ll want to look at is the TrainController?
21:58<Jon__>anything else?
21:58<Eddi|zuHause>just follow the function it calls there
21:59<Eddi|zuHause>ignore the acceleration bits and stuff
22:01<Jon__>could you point me to the file that contains the controller function?
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>probably src/train_cmd.cpp
22:02<Jon__>ah, thanks
22:02<Jon__>you’ve been a lot of help, thank you
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 24 00:00:05 2015