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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-27

---Logopened Fri Mar 27 00:00:09 2015
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00:03<Flygon>NG: I want Skylines D:
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00:58<supermop>i hate when the internet will only show me the australian internet
00:58<supermop>there is no way to select the us version of this site - if i sign up with my us credit card i'll be paying a needless fee to convert to AUD
01:12<Supercheese>sounds like you need a proxy or something
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01:26<supermop>huge pain to use just to sign up for their product
01:42<supermop>downloadeing ue4
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02:00<supermop>i wish i could have group specific company colors
02:00<supermop>im inserting a new routes worth of trains on to the mainline
02:01<supermop>no space for them to wait around before starting their timetables, so i just have to watch and start each one in turn after a train of a certain other route passes
02:02<supermop>but i can't identify them by sight so i have to click on the trains as the approach the station to see which group they belong to
02:02<supermop>not actually that hard but still
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02:29<chillcore>good morning all o/
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02:44<supermop>yo chillcore
02:44<chillcore>hi supermop
03:09<V453000>okay why the actual fuck are wooden monorail/maglev bridge head sprites in different order than anywhere else XD
03:11<chillcore>to make you talk ... it worked :P
03:11<chillcore>no idea ;)
03:11<V453000>just wat
03:11<chillcore>jusst kidding
03:11<chillcore>it is a joke here
03:12<chillcore>if you have no idea you say that
03:12<chillcore>good morning
03:13<V453000>SENSIBLE SEQUENCE OF NUMBERS: 4359, 4357, 4358, 4356, 4356, 4354, 4353, 4355, 4352
03:13<V453000>I think someone had a cat sorting them
03:13<V453000>because that totally looks cheezburger random
03:34<chillcore>autopark "you are responsible for any misstakes the car makes" ... right
03:36<chillcore>if whenever I buy one of them toys first thingto do is rip out the "conveniences"
03:36<chillcore>^^^ electric cars
03:36<chillcore>contains traces of google ... yay
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04:27<supermop>V453000: why don't you make and sell generic models on unreal marketplace as a way to get some money from what you do
04:27<V453000>eh perhaps later :)
04:27<V453000>but yeah good idea
04:28<supermop>looking on there for furniture to use for a project
04:28<supermop>and though, i've designed bits of furniture over the years, may as well put some on on to make a few bucks
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04:40<supermop>off to eat Uighur noodles
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04:46<V453000>the wooden bridge rotations are swapped too
04:46<V453000><3 consistency
04:51<chillcore>can be easily solved ... just takes someone who is annoyed enough to put in the effort to add some
04:52<chillcore>also the code to make all them old NewGRF still work correctly <3
04:53<chillcore>but yeah is what you get when tons of peeps work on a project for many many years
04:57<chillcore>maybe they were already swapped in the original graphics? I dunno
04:58<V453000>idk but it is mess :D
04:58<V453000>I probably have my stuff working now so /cara
04:58<V453000> /care
05:01<chillcore>I did not mean you should not care ... it is nice to read what peeps think ...
05:02<V453000>no its fine :D I just basically stated that I do not intend to clean it up :P
05:33<chillcore>hehe ... if my neighbours tart drilling again sunday at 19.00 hours like they have been for the past two months ...
05:33<chillcore>goodbye headphones and hello speakers ...
05:34<chillcore>I would not care if the other days of the week they were drilling too so they are done
05:35*chillcore fridays
05:50<V453000>thats just bad :D
05:51<V453000>2 f4st
05:51<chillcore>tempo goes up later
05:51<chillcore>but yeah
05:51*chillcore likes fr an hour or 2
05:52<chillcore>I love putting this up from time to time
05:52<V453000>I listen a lot to this motherfucker
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05:57<chillcore>I like that too ...
05:58<chillcore>will have a listen after what I am listening to
05:58<chillcore>just very hard to find good +200bmp jumps
05:58<chillcore>except old shool
05:59<chillcore>one day my son came home with some stuffs on his MP3 player ... he started jumping like they do now
06:00<chillcore>then I showed him some of mine
06:00<chillcore>he was like WTF ...
06:00<chillcore>these days ... I headbang instead of jump like a madman
06:00<chillcore>age and all that XD
06:02<chillcore>but I like all kinds of musics
06:02<chillcore>just not much into classic and shlagers
06:03<chillcore>music is just so tame these days ... afraid of being unique much?
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06:08<chillcore>but yeah that is how I picked my nickname 20 years ago
06:09<chillcore>me likes HardCore very much, when you see me I am a really Chill dude
06:11<V453000>well I for one take the approach that heavy music actually calms me down so .. :)
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08:14<Samu_>I need clarification about
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08:15<Samu_>Six attributes hold the information about a tile. isn't it 9?
08:19<chillcore>hi samu
08:19<chillcore>mind being a bit more specific?
08:19<supermop>those bridges tho... V453000
08:21<Samu_>9 attributes
08:21<Samu_>type, height, m1, m2, m3, m4, m5, m6, m7
08:22<Samu_>but the doc says 6
08:22<chillcore>did you folow that link? "This can be seen in ..."
08:25<chillcore>but yeah one file sais 6 and the other 9
08:25<Samu_>These attributes are referred to as "type", "height", "m1", "m2", "m3", "m4", "m5", "m6" and "m7".
08:25<Samu_>so its 9?
08:25<chillcore>I guess so
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08:26<Samu_>ok ty
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08:32<chillcore>also samu instead of this:
08:32<chillcore> if ((_settings_newgame.game_creation.map_x >= 9) && (_settings_newgame.game_creation.map_y >= 9)) {
08:32<chillcore>try this maybe
08:32<chillcore> int smallest_size = min(_settings_game.game_creation.map_x, _settings_game.game_creation.map_y);
08:32<chillcore> if (smallest_size > 9) {
08:33<chillcore>much more readable
08:33<chillcore>^^^ those asignments Alberth mentioned
08:36<chillcore>the ">=" vs ">" difference is simply a logic error I fixed in my newer version ... you may ignore that; the above is just an example
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09:06<Samu_>I hate this lingo babbling
09:07<chillcore>x = 1 ... assigns 1 to x
09:07<chillcore>if (x == 1) checks to see if x is 1
09:07<Samu_>ancestor, classes, copy constructor, instance class
09:08<Samu_>what happened to english
09:08<chillcore>yes samu you skipped a lot
09:12<Samu_>couldn't they just write articles in words everyone could understand
09:13<chillcore>where shall we start? generating electricity?
09:13<chillcore>no offence
09:15<Samu_>MakeStation(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d), IsWaterTile(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) ? HasTileWaterClass(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) && GetWaterClass(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER ? HasBit(_me[t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)].m6, 0) ? o : GetTileOwner(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) : GetTileOwner(t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)) : wc == WATER_CLASS_SEA ? OWNER_WATER : o, sid, STATION_DOCK, GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART + DiagDirToAxis(d), wc);
09:16<Samu_>t2 = t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d)
09:16<Samu_>or int t2 = t + TileOffsByDiagDir(d) ?
09:17<chillcore>the second or you'll get an error if t2 is not defined before
09:18<chillcore>that is why you need to hit a book samu
09:24<chillcore>also wiki is not a book
09:25<Samu_>MakeStation(t2, IsWaterTile(t2) ? HasTileWaterClass(t2) && GetWaterClass(t2) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER ? HasBit(_me[t2].m6, 0) ? o : GetTileOwner(t2) : GetTileOwner(t2) : wc == WATER_CLASS_SEA ? OWNER_WATER : o, sid, STATION_DOCK, GFX_DOCK_BASE_WATER_PART + DiagDirToAxis(d), wc);
09:26<Samu_>it looks better
09:26<Samu_>still big
09:29<Samu_>IsWaterTile(t2) ? HasTileWaterClass(t2) && GetWaterClass(t2) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER ? HasBit(_me[t2].m6, 0) ? o : GetTileOwner(t2) : GetTileOwner(t2) : wc == WATER_CLASS_SEA ? OWNER_WATER : o
09:29<Samu_>what can I do about this part?
09:30<chillcore>use normal nested if elses?
09:30<Leander_><chillcore> that is why you need to hit a book samu <- that's what you need to do
09:30<chillcore>yes I know
09:31<chillcore>there is lots and lots I still do not know
09:31<Leander_>you've been hacking at C++ code for weeks, and... you don't know variable assignment? you're doing it the wrong way
09:31<chillcore>fair enough
09:33<chillcore>show me the right way too please? so I do not teach orthers the wrong way?
09:34<Leander_>you can do two things in that case: - store results of comparisons in bool variables
09:34<Leander_>- indeed use normal nested if
09:34<Leander_>inline if should never be nested, especially in such a complex expression... no one wants to guess how operator precedence is going to work
09:35<chillcore>it was suggested to samu a few days ago already
09:35<chillcore>I myself would never nest like that
09:36<Samu_>I am a slow learner
09:37<chillcore>but yes I do agree Leander there is lots I can do better
09:37<Leander_>you seem to really lack some basics, so reading a proper book is also what I'd suggest because I'm old-fashioned, but there must be good online resources to learn correctly
09:40<Leander_>chillcore I don't really know about your code, so I can't comment :)
09:40<Leander_>but that nested inline if from hell, please no :)
09:40<Samu_>this is my code
09:41<Leander_>yes, and do you think you'll remember exactly how it works in two weeks? two months? probably not, it's too convoluted
09:41<Samu_>i have the draft explaining what's happening there
09:42<Samu_>but i don't know how to input the comments in there
09:43<Samu_>last post
09:44<Leander_>then you should reproduce that in your code, but not as a comment
09:45<Leander_>you might want to learn about switch()
09:46<Samu_>the MakeStation part is doing the restoration and setting the owner
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09:48<Samu_>it knows a few things
09:48<Samu_>from the other function
09:49<Samu_>canal on river is the HasBit part
09:50<Samu_>if it finds a bare land tile, it knows that it was either a demolished sea or a demolished canal
09:51<Samu_>if it is a demolished canal, then it knows that it was it's own canal that was demolished and that the canal was not on a river
09:52<Samu_>canals of owner none are made sure that are not demolished in the previous function
09:53<Samu_>it decides based on the results given by the prior function. am I making sense?
09:54<Samu_>the other function is CmdBuildDock
09:55<Leander_>there's no need to explain me bit by bit
09:56<Samu_>yeah but i suck at technical jargon
09:57<Leander_>all I'm saying is that your huge expression should be decomposed into if/else (or possibly a switch)
09:57<@peter1138>there's always been ethel
09:58<V453000>is ethel an alcoholic short for ethanol?
09:58<Leander_>and either have several call to MakeStation() (one call for each condition) or use variables to store the values you want to put in MakeStation
09:59<@peter1138>there's a future for you in the fire escape trade, come up to town
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i've never heard ethel. only ethyl.
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>and that might actually mean ethene
10:02<V453000>maybe some next gen alcoholics
10:02<V453000>I dont know what it is but I want it
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>or actually, ethylene
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. CH2=CH2
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, that's totally not my area of expertise :p
10:04<V453000>if you can drink it and feel wtf after it, it should be.
10:04<V453000>requires scientific research of liquids
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>ethylene is probably a gas
10:05<V453000>well fuck
10:05<V453000>not interested then
10:05<V453000>what use is it if I cant drink it
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>and alcohols other than ethanol are usually poisonous
10:06<V453000>alcohol is a poison too isnt it
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but only in large quantities
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>that also depends on how strictly you want to apply "poison"
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>oxygen is a poison
10:08<V453000>I KNEW IT
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>there have been studies that people that live in lower areas with higher oxygen concentration, have higher frequency of lung cancer
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>because free radicals may rip out electrons from molecules that are vital.
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>often destroying said molecule in the process
10:11<V453000>the study obviously leads to the result that solution is beer
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>beer was actually often used for drinking, because it had less chance of being contaminated than water you dug out from a well
10:12<V453000>fish shit in it
10:16<chillcore>If only it were just the fish ...
10:17<V453000>OH YES
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10:26<chillcore>all this talk about nutriciants made me hungry ...
10:28<Samu_>is this correct?
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>i just ate an hour ago
10:32<Samu_>(or possibly a switch)
10:32<Samu_>how do i do a switch version?
10:33<chillcore>no idea if it runs correctly but much better yes samu
10:33<Samu_>gonna try switch method
10:33<Samu_>but still not sure how to use it
10:37<Samu_>i wish I could make HasBit(_me[t2].m6, 0) more english
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10:38<Samu_>HasBit(_me[t2].m6, 0) = CanalOnRiver
10:40<Samu_>however, it could have some other meaning
10:41<Samu_>in this specific case it means Is it to be a canal on a river
10:42<Samu_>because it finds the flag set even though it is currently a river
10:44<Samu_>makestation sets the waterclass to canal,
10:44<Samu_>but to decide on the owner, it must look the value of that flag
10:45<chillcore>x=1 != 1=x
10:46<Samu_>hmm then how do I do this part?
10:49<Samu_>if river && canal on river:
10:49<Samu_>self canal was removed
10:49<Samu_>don't forget that demolishing a canal built on a river reverts to river
10:53<Samu_>the other function is prepating this information
10:53<Samu_>if (canal_on_river && !self_canal_maintained) SB(_me[tile + TileOffsByDiagDir(direction)].m6, 0, 1, 1);
10:53<Samu_>is this code cheating?
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11:21<Samu_>I'm unsure if i can use a switch method
11:27<Samu_>it is saying expression must have a constant value
11:29<Samu_>why isn't o a constant value?
11:30<Samu_>it's the self owner!
11:30<Samu_>I don't get it
11:53<chillcore>const values must not change values samu
11:54<chillcore>please do yourself a favour and read "thinking in c++"
11:54<chillcore>also "o = o;" does nothing useful
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11:55<Samu_>what can i do at that point?
11:55<Samu_>ommit code?
11:55<chillcore>you might as well do nothing there yes
11:56<chillcore>replace if else with just if
11:56<chillcore>in that place and if that is what you want to do
11:56<chillcore>that bitmagic ... not my cup of cake
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11:59<Samu_>it's a true or false
11:59<Samu_>if it have a 1, then it's true, if it have a 0 it's false
12:00<chillcore>if false do nothing?
12:01<chillcore>just do if true do this
12:01<Samu_>if it's true, set the owner to self, o
12:02<Samu_>if it's false, set the owner to the owner of the tile, GetTileOwner etc...
12:03<Samu_> GetTileOwner(t2)
12:03<Samu_>o means self
12:04<Samu_>o ss always self
12:04<Samu_>o is* always self
12:06<Samu_>well, at that point at least
12:06<chillcore>x = 0; if (true) x = 1;
12:06<chillcore>what value does x have in case of false
12:06<chillcore>without adding code
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12:08<Samu_>if I turn it around with !HasBit(_me[t2].m6, 0)
12:08<Samu_>i can remove the else part, right?
12:09<chillcore>book samu
12:09<chillcore>this is basics
12:09<chillcore>not the bitmagic part mind you
12:09<chillcore>the if else part is basics
12:09<chillcore>you do not grasp that so ...
12:10<Samu_>i hate books, I confess
12:10<chillcore>ye without you reading we can not help you
12:10<chillcore>unless we write your patch
12:10<Samu_>they distract me from what i'm currently doing
12:10<chillcore>which is not going to happen anytime soon
12:11<chillcore>people give you hints, plenty of them
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12:11<chillcore>o/ Alberth
12:11<@Alberth>hi hi
12:16<@Alberth>great bridges, V
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12:28<V453000>thanks :)
12:28<V453000>I am surprised nobody went batshit about the wooden pillars yet
12:31<^Spike^>wrong slash
12:31<^Spike^>i hate windows! :)
12:31<^Spike^>bye! :)
12:32<@Alberth>bye :)
12:34<chillcore>That's some nice bolts you have there V453000
12:35*chillcore should visit that part of the forums more often
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12:35<V453000>there is nothing to do just like the rest of the forums dont worry :P
12:38<Eddi|zuHause><chillcore> That's some nice bolts you have there V453000 <-- that reads like it should be continued with "... would be awful if something happened to them"
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13:08<Samu_>refresh page
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13:09<Samu_>hmm let me improve this diagram a bit
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13:11<Samu_>oki refresh once more, now it looks good
13:15<Samu_>now, how do I translate this into code?
13:15<Samu_>readable code
13:15<Samu_>dont tell me to read a book :(
13:15<frosch123>hire someone to read the book to you?
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13:16<chillcore>I won't anymore promissed
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13:32<Samu_> * @pre
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13:36<@Alberth>it's still reading :p
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13:38<chillcore>doxygen creates documentation
13:38<Samu_>this part is boring, having to comment the way you want
13:39<@Alberth>the general trick is to use the right style when you write the code
13:39<Samu_>ok, I need a @see to the other function
13:39<@Alberth>fixing it afterwards is indeed very boring
13:40<chillcore>Samu: talking about reading... did you report that error you found in landscape_grid.html?
13:41<chillcore>nice find btw ;)
13:42<Samu_>didn't think it was to be reported
13:42<Samu_>it's a document
13:42<chillcore>Alberth: especially if you forgot what you did before
13:42<chillcore>hmm why should it not be fixed samu?
13:43<Samu_>it's a typo
13:43<Samu_>won't change anything
13:43<@Alberth>? I forget what I did constantly :)
13:43<@Alberth>a pyto
13:43<chillcore>everything that comes with a checkout is part of OpenTTD samu
13:44<chillcore>you knpow that it is nine and not six ... would be nice if the peeps after you know too without being confused first?
13:45<chillcore>true it willnot change anything. fine
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27206 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt luxembourgish.txt) (2015-03-27 18:45:28 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 5 changes by Eskymak
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 9 changes by Phreeze
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13:51<chillcore>hmm thg is being mean ... my only option is commit ...
13:52<chillcore>ah fixed it
13:55<Samu_>if i can't have o = o;
13:55<Samu_>then, what can i do?
13:55<chillcore>Now I has a patch to remind me of the typo
13:55<chillcore>scroll back samu
13:56<chillcore>there is no book there
13:56<chillcore>bit up
13:56<Samu_>ah, i see, well i don't know if it will work
13:56<Samu_>probably won't
13:57<chillcore>you did not even try so
13:58<Samu_>ok trying
13:59<chillcore>before you blame me ... I never said the rest of your logic is correct
14:00<chillcore>read: I have no clue about that
14:00<Samu_>the big single line is behaving correctly, it's setting owner and stuff the right way
14:00<Samu_>the if/else though, i dunno
14:01<Samu_>new copy paste
14:07<Samu_>if/else is so misleading
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14:09<@Alberth>if at line 8 makes no sense at ll, given line 13
14:09<@Alberth>euhm, line 12, I mean
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14:11<Samu_>hey Alberth, this diagram
14:11<Samu_>is what I need to translate into if/else
14:12<Samu_>or something equivalent, but simpler than that single big line
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14:14<chillcore>if that long line is easier for you to understand samu then keep that
14:15<chillcore>most of us get a headache trying to read it
14:15<@Alberth>nah, I give up before trying :)
14:15<chillcore>me too
14:16<chillcore>even wolf said it gave him a headache, seeing it for a few seconds
14:16<chillcore>leander_ complained
14:16<chillcore>I don't know what to say
14:17<chillcore>if else is too complicated
14:17<chillcore>but the most complicated line I have ever read ... no prob for samu
14:20<@Alberth>I have already accepted that people can write code I cannot read :)
14:20<@Alberth>that's fine
14:20<Samu_>can i put a skip, bail out something of that kind in a if/else?
14:21<@Alberth>however, I won't accept responsibility for it
14:22<Samu_>for example, at line 8, if that hasbit comes out true, then i want it to get out, skip all the other if/else's
14:22<Samu_>what do I type there?
14:22<@Alberth>hard to say without reading
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14:22<Samu_>it would make o = o; so, unchanged
14:23<Samu_>o is already = o
14:23<chillcore>and const
14:23<chillcore>if that is what your compiler complained about ...
14:23<@Alberth>chillcore: I can and will say what I don't like, and people can pick it up or ignore it, not much I can do about that, so, if not, I stop trying
14:24<chillcore>hmm yes
14:24<chillcore>I have that list of hints you gave me
14:24<chillcore>It would not cross my mind to ask for more before ...
14:25<chillcore>oh well
14:25<Samu_>i suck at explaining things
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14:25<Wolf01>hi ih
14:26<Samu_>before that whole if block starts, o already means something
14:26<chillcore>unless it is something different then what you pointed out. Alberth
14:26<Samu_>it may change or stay the same
14:26<chillcore>o/ wolf
14:27<Samu_>if it stays the same, I can't ommit inside the if/else
14:27<Samu_>or can i?
14:27<Samu_>what couldi do
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14:28<@Alberth>chillcore: you should abuse my lack of remembering things more often :p
14:28<@Alberth>hi hi andy
14:28<chillcore>Pandoras box Alberth
14:28<@Alberth>oh, and sir W, sorry, missed your joining
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14:29<Wolf01>o/ andy
14:32<chillcore><Alberth> chillcore: you should abuse my lack of remembering things more often :p <- Also that woud require me to start rewriting my guii version and I feel like having a break for a few days
14:32<chillcore>noone is reporting bugs ... light version is done
14:32<@Alberth>haha :)
14:35<chillcore>the biggest prob right now is that validating of negative strings ... not sure how to handle it
14:35<chillcore>few peeps already said regex is too big a canon
14:35<chillcore>and passing the string after each character entered ...
14:36<chillcore>would require me to know how to handle strings better
14:36<chillcore>also pointers ... eventhough it works fine without
14:36<chillcore>just a bit leghty code
14:36<@Alberth>sounds like a too big cannon indeed, but I don't know what's possible in that area
14:37<chillcore>checking string after each character entered ...
14:37<chillcore>not that I do not have the cycles available
14:37<@Alberth>in a custom function?
14:38<chillcore>as you enter it in the querybox
14:38<chillcore>validate validate validate
14:38<chillcore>hmm ...
14:38<@Alberth>in some way you have to express you're accepting a (potentially) negative number to the input code
14:39<chillcore>only as leading character that is the prob
14:39<Samu_>turn it positive
14:39<chillcore>not really a prob but yeah
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14:39<@Alberth>why is that a problem?
14:39<Samu_>tell the other guy "hey this number is negative"
14:39<Samu_>other function
14:39<Samu_>or whatever
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14:40<@Alberth>you cannot differentiate between first and non-first character?
14:40<chillcore>if I doot validate after each character I can do -12-45
14:40<chillcore>do not*
14:40<chillcore>that comes out as -12
14:41<@Alberth>makes sense :)
14:41<chillcore>I could loop ver the string and remove the second one
14:41<@Alberth>forbid it would be better imho
14:41<Samu_>do you know the base value?
14:42<@Alberth>so yeah, you need to check every time
14:42<Samu_>do you know the range or ?
14:42<Samu_>bah i suck at explaining stuff
14:42<Samu_>the min and max values?
14:43<@Alberth>domain of int, I guess
14:43<chillcore>Alerth: just did not get there yet ... there were more urgent things to do
14:43<Samu_>add to the base the highest negative number, so it's never negative?
14:43<Samu_>am i making sense
14:43<@Alberth>can't do that Samu_, the result would not fit in an int
14:44<Samu_>umm oki
14:44<@Alberth>also, users do not understand that
14:45<Samu_>then readjust the number
14:46<Samu_>biggest_negativenumber -12-45 >= 0
14:47<@Alberth>I don't understand that
14:47<chillcore>samu: I'll manage thank you very much anyway
14:47<@Alberth>but you cannot shift values
14:48<chillcore>I has this book
14:48<Samu_>ok, say the range is -100 to +100
14:48<Samu_>100 - 12 - 45 = will always bring a positive number
14:48<Samu_>then on the other
14:48<Samu_>your last value - 100 = what you really want
14:48<chillcore>try my patch samu
14:49<chillcore>I know what happens
14:49<@Alberth>chillcore: it sounds like a very fixable problem, I can haz a look when you're stuck
14:49<chillcore>that would be very kind alberth
14:49<chillcore>the patch is called negative nrs
14:50<chillcore>all places from where the validate code is called is marked with a white line
14:50<@Alberth>hmm, in the non-light patch I guess? :)
14:50<chillcore>but the patch itself is not big
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>i still think validating against a regexp would be the most futureproof thing
14:50<chillcore>it is just that
14:50<chillcore>negative nrs
14:51<chillcore>the qurybox stuffs is somewhere else
14:51<chillcore>Alberth ^^^
14:52<chillcore>you'll see when you open it ;)
14:52<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you expect more other values that one needs to enter & validate?
14:52<Samu_>can i split my line into several lines without interrupting the execution?
14:52<chillcore>there are indeed more places in the code that would benifit
14:52<chillcore>a few
14:53<chillcore>we have some negative nrs in the settings gui
14:54<chillcore>they can be set with the arrows but not in querybox
14:54<chillcore>and then Eddi|zuHause may have something else in mind?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i don't know. maybe command line, or ingame console... like setting comma-separated-lists from the console is currently impossible
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: also, entering times as HH:MM:SS
14:55<@Alberth>hmm, wouldn't you have to parse the input afterwards anyway?
14:55<@Alberth>ie you can check with a re, but you still have to decode the data
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: regexp can be used for parsing as well :)
14:56<chillcore>yes samu you can split lines, use double tabs
14:56<@Alberth>we should add a scanner generator to openttd :p
14:56<@Alberth>somewhat overkill :p
14:57<chillcore>neocortex scanners ... bring it on
14:58<chillcore>then I have my hands free
14:59<chillcore>not sure if that would produce less typos though
14:59<chillcore>and unfilterd hmm ...
14:59<chillcore>bad idea
14:59<@Alberth>small tip for future releases, run hg qpop -a before zipping
15:00<chillcore>ok ... it is just that sometimes there are patches on toop that shouldnot be applied
15:00<chillcore>but ok
15:01<chillcore>usually I do not include them
15:01<@Alberth>the Tgen_Light_v1_r27203.7z status file contains applied patches
15:01<chillcore>yes as do all my zips
15:01<@Alberth>no doubt they were applied when you packed the directory
15:01<chillcore>yes indeed
15:02<@Alberth>but they are not in my hg copy, as I just unpacked your archive
15:02<chillcore>hmm ...
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15:02<chillcore>wan me to make a new one?
15:02<Samu_>is this good presentation
15:02<@Alberth>note that series is the list of patches, statis is the list applied patches
15:02<ub_umstieg>hi why i cand build Fruifarms in Desert at 1.5.0
15:03<Samu_>what happens if i put comments between the lines?
15:03<@Alberth>chillcore: no, just saying, so you are aware of it
15:03<Samu_>will the code borks?
15:03<Samu_>fail or so
15:03<ub_umstieg>in older versions i coudt do so
15:03<@Alberth>ub_umstieg: they need water?
15:03<chillcore>I had samu his permanent rivers in my queue ... I removed that manually from those two files
15:04<ub_umstieg>dont understand that
15:04<ub_umstieg>Alberth: in the dropdown menue ther is no entre for building new fruitplants
15:04<@Alberth>oh :)
15:05<ub_umstieg>only 4 entrys now is there a setting for this
15:05<@Alberth>you disabled building of primary industries?
15:06<@Alberth>open the settings window, search for 'primary'
15:07<ub_umstieg>THANKS found it what a miss for only gamers to set up the new version
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15:08<@Alberth>euhm, what was that about?
15:08<chillcore>good question
15:08<chillcore>building primaries is off by default
15:08<chillcore>manually that is
15:09<chillcore>prospect is default
15:09<chillcore>I guess that
15:09<Samu_>if i put comments between the lines, will I be interrupting the code?
15:10<Samu_>between or at the end
15:10<chillcore>nothing wrong Alberth
15:10<chillcore>it is the new generation
15:11<chillcore>a good spanking some of these kids need
15:11<chillcore>but that is child abuse now
15:11<chillcore>so they do whatever ... out of control
15:11<@Alberth>Samu_: why do you ask things you can look up?
15:11<chillcore>because books
15:12<Samu_>because it is already working, I don't want to screw up
15:12<Samu_>when i add the comments
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15:16<@Alberth>hmm, tropical forest fix, is div 4 a good idea? it could end up at 0?
15:17<chillcore>as it is now you end up without forest
15:17<chillcore>it assigns the tiles to desert/forests
15:18<chillcore>whatever you do to height they remain that way ;)
15:18<chillcore>it is not like snowline at all
15:18<chillcore>4 from water desert starts
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15:19<chillcore>height of top tile generated / 4 is where forest starts
15:19<chillcore>lower it to 1 and it will still be forest
15:19<chillcore>raise it to 255 ... same
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15:20<chillcore>new game that is
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15:20<chillcore>in scenario you can change that manually?
15:20<chillcore>I did not touch that part
15:20<@Alberth>I mean in your patch
15:21<@Alberth>currently it's map max height / 4, so 16/4 = 4 or so
15:21<chillcore>in trunk it is _max_height / 4
15:21<@Alberth>with your solution, I can make a very very flat map, of say max height 3
15:21<@Alberth>3 /4 = 0
15:22<@Alberth>I wonder if you shouldn't at least have height 1 or so
15:22<chillcore>as it is now is _max_height is at 255 and yor map is 32 high only ... all dunes
15:22<chillcore>s is/if
15:22<@Alberth>I am not arguing trunk is good
15:23<@Alberth>no doubt it's broken
15:23<chillcore>I know ... but I do not see how to solve it differently
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15:23<chillcore>there is no way of knowing how high a map will turn out without generaing it
15:24<@Alberth>I am just asking if forest height should not be at least 1 or 2 or so, no matter what real max map height you have
15:24<chillcore>hmm ... yeah maybe
15:24<chillcore>it could perhaps use a min setting
15:24<@Alberth>yes, but solving a different problem from agree-ing what is right :)
15:25<@Alberth>as for solving, just set initial top_height eg to 4 or 8
15:25<chillcore>such low
15:25<@Alberth>4 probably
15:25<chillcore>4 is old behaviour yes
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>or using max(2, height/4)?
15:26<@Alberth>ie before / 4
15:26<chillcore>so make that min? but still do top generated / 4
15:26<chillcore>on it
15:27<@Alberth>so you have your solution, but for very low maps it works too
15:27<chillcore>or do you want a custom setting?
15:27<@Alberth>nope :)
15:27<chillcore>hmm that was agreed on not to do that
15:27<@Alberth>we want less settings :p
15:27<chillcore>I'll add minimum 4 not configurable
15:27<@Alberth>but even very useless settings are missed :p
15:28<@Alberth>add a comment too
15:28<chillcore>wil do ;)
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15:29<chillcore>max(4, blabla)
15:29<V453000>Dropbox users! Can I somehow distantly disconnect a computer from dropbox even if the PC is turned off?
15:29<V453000>like, un-share some device?
15:29<V453000>obviously data stays there, just not the linking
15:29<V453000>ah got it nvm :D
15:32<@Alberth>chillcore: just set the initial value to 4
15:33<chillcore>it is done on the fly during mapgen
15:33<chillcore>after the terrainis in place
15:33<@Alberth>uint top_tile = 4;
15:33<chillcore>oh ok
15:34<@Alberth>uint top_tile = 4; // Force forest heights to at least 4/4 = 1.
15:34<@Alberth>or something like that
15:34<@Alberth>solution by eddi is fine too
15:36<chillcore>** /* Tropical forest can not start lower then level 4. */
15:36<chillcore>them stars is because else line does not show
15:36<chillcore>no wait ...
15:36<chillcore>hmm ...
15:37<chillcore>I should raise height of map too
15:37<chillcore>very flat min 5 ?
15:37<chillcore>or is it ok at level 1 ...
15:37<chillcore>tropical forest I mean
15:37<chillcore>hmm ....
15:38<@Alberth>I have no idea tbh, but level 0 seemed definitely unwanted
15:38<chillcore>if I do level 1 the desert is gone
15:39<chillcore>it is first desert the tropical that gets assigned
15:39<chillcore>so level 2 is better
15:39<chillcore>still 4 from water
15:40<chillcore>and min height of map is 2 so
15:40<chillcore>very small maps
15:41<chillcore>I'll do some quick testing ... thank you for pointing it out
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i think applying the minimum at the end makes more sense (for reading this code again in 5 years, and understanding how it does what it does)
15:41<@Alberth>your amplitude patch (last patch) looks somewhat weird, using 'small' for computing the index, and then indexing a different array
15:42<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: good point, chillcore, can you change that accordingly?
15:42<chillcore>I just picked one, they all have the same lenght
15:42<chillcore>magic nr?
15:42<@Alberth>and the max(0, index) stuff is weird too, but probably inherited
15:43<@Alberth>you can make it constant if you like
15:43<chillcore>and shorter
15:44<chillcore>I may have one already ... checking
15:44<chillcore>it is just not yet used in the arrays
15:45<@Alberth>could be helpful to say something what each array is about, next to the meaning of the numbers
15:45<chillcore>hmm it is explained at top of tgp.cpp
15:46<chillcore>them little tables?
15:46<@Alberth>static const amplitude_t amplitudes_middle[][10] <--- these tables
15:47<@Alberth>the comment says how to interpret the numbers, but nothing about the purpose of the array as a whole
15:47<@Alberth>eg "used for 512x512 maps"
15:47<chillcore>ah ok
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15:48<chillcore>haha thg is crashing now
15:49<chillcore>brb ... I'll read the logs too so I do not miss anything
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15:50<frosch123>hmm, nml is really old :p
15:51<frosch123>i just wonders why does some really bonker things, but they are actually needed for ottd < 1.1 :p
15:51<@Alberth>also, as language not really intuitive, to me at least
15:51<@Alberth>:O options for negative line count productivity :p
15:52<frosch123>maybe at that time people still thought it could serve ttdp
15:52-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
15:52<frosch123>yeah, apparently varact2 had no shift left and right operations
15:52<frosch123>so nml construct them from rotate-right :p
15:52<chillcore>minecraft was still running
15:53<@Alberth>yeah, and wondering why the newgrf code size explodes :p
15:53<frosch123>a >> b = a / (1 ror (32 - b))
15:53<@Alberth>chillcore: forest patch: "asigned" -> "assigned"
15:54<@Alberth>frosch123: yeah, it's great fun reading that code :)
15:54<@Alberth>last added empty line shouldn't be there
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15:56<chillcore>sniper eyes you have yoda sais
15:56<V453000>how do I code the CETS-like vehicle turning in curves?
15:57<V453000>the shitload-of-angles?
15:57<@Alberth>chillcore: a case of reading too many diff files :p
16:00<chillcore>strange how I see all that stuffs when reading someone elses code ... guess it is a matter of focus
16:01<chillcore>just reading instead of debugging
16:02<@Alberth>ever tried waiting a few days, and then reading the patch asif it's from someone else?
16:02<chillcore>yes with the gui version ... you should see that first patch from 2012 ...
16:03<chillcore>not recommended
16:03<V453000>is Eddi|zuHause here? :)
16:04<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: this is the day I do not ridicule incompleteness of CETS! :P
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it's actually very simple
16:04<V453000>that yeah :)
16:04<V453000>but how?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>i have a file somewhere...
16:04<V453000>reminds me of "I have a patch for that somewhere..."
16:05<chillcore>Alberth: uint top_tile = 0; I am going to leave at 0 ... the code has not yet looped over the map at this point
16:06<@Alberth>sure, and that's probably better
16:06<chillcore>uint max_desert_height = max(2, CeilDiv(top_tile, 4));
16:06<chillcore>with comment above
16:06<@Alberth>my solution was a bit 'kort door de bocht' :p
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: this is the length 16 vehicle, made up as parts of 4+8+4
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: basically, starting at the bottom:
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>if in gui: show full sprite
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>if in some kind of curve: show full sprite for middle and invisible for the end parts
16:10<V453000>it is basically a huge sprite hack
16:10<V453000>not a new grf feature
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise: draw slice individually for each vehicle
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes. kinda
16:10<@Alberth>how are sprite hacks not a grf feature :p
16:10<V453000>ok, not sure if I want to go there :D
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it might still glitch in some corner cases
16:11<V453000>I was just intrigued how is stuff like this done
16:11<V453000>and whether I should/want to consider adding it to DOOM
16:12<V453000>the answer is probably nope though XD
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>it shouldn't be very hard for DOOM
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>but it would make the set bigger by a factor of large
16:13<V453000>yeah well that is a thing, but I was just interested more about the execution, filesize meh
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>which will probably be a major limitation
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>the execution is really not that tricky
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>there is a bit of magic hidden in the sprite templates
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>because the formulas i made up did not fully match the results, so i have random +1 or +2 offsets in places
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>but this gets easier if you have only one size of vehicle
16:15<V453000>obviously :)
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the key feature here is var 62 to detect whether you're in a curve or slope
16:16<V453000>well it looks interesting to say the least
16:17<chillcore>minimum height of map for very flat on 64** map? with snowline and tropical forest at 2 min ... it should be 3 at least?
16:17<chillcore>or 4 ?
16:18<chillcore>most maps generate higher ...
16:18<chillcore>hmm ... doing the rest first
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: and then loads of sprite templates for each angle and whether the vehicle is drawn as full sprite or slices
16:19<V453000>yeah XD
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>where only the straight views are ever drawn as slices
16:19<V453000>how long did it take to construct this?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>the basic concept didn't take long
16:19<V453000>well sure I guess fiddling and setting up details takes the most
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>but there was a lot of on-and-off thinking before
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, getting the offsets right was a major task
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>and also getting var62 in trunk :)
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the exact amount of time is difficult to measure, as there were years of basically nothing happening inbetween
16:22<chillcore>right ... my top patch is gone but still listed ... that is why is giving me errors
16:22*chillcore has backup :P
16:23<V453000>yeah I was just wondering because I can imagine how much holyshit offsets are
16:23<V453000>doing them on this level sounds majorly insane
16:23<V453000>my advanced template of automatically-assigning-correct-offsets-to-different-vehicle-parts is already the top I could think of XD
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16:24<chillcore>I must have cut it instead of copy before posting
16:24<chillcore>haha self-trolled
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the offset calculation in its current form is a major brainfuck
16:24<chillcore>that is a new one
16:24<V453000>if you say that then I should run away from it as far as I can
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the "view_blah" functions:
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: and here the offsets bit:
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>and for 4x zoom you probably can't reuse some of it
16:28<V453000>im done XD
16:28<V453000>ok this is out of the question XD thank you though :)
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the good part is that you only have to do this for one vehicle
16:29<V453000>that I understand
16:29-!-shirish_ [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<V453000>but yeah, just :D
16:29<@Alberth>sleep a night about it :)
16:29<V453000>no way
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16:30<V453000>I will just writea nice forum post like "if someone wants to see that feature, code it for me, I give you sprites" but ,,, :D
16:30<V453000>I mean, it would be nice for me to get more out of the models I already spend a lot of time on
16:31<V453000>but that does not mean I should spend half a year getting the code to work at all :D
16:31<chillcore> int index = frequency - MAX_TGP_FREQUENCIES + lengthof(amplitudes_small[smoothness]);
16:31<chillcore>with current code that is just frequency
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i would propose making models for CETS, but that would include making them GPL-able (i.e. providing textures)
16:31<chillcore>it was not before
16:31<V453000>not to mention that my coding skills and understanding and b4d
16:31<V453000>yeah that is not an option eddi :P
16:34<@Alberth>chillcore: I don't understand that line at the moment, but I can probably when I read things in context, so I assume it's fine for now
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16:35<V453000>good night! :D
16:36<@Alberth>gn V
16:36<chillcore>currently the nr of params of 1 setting is equal to TGP_MAX_FREQUENCY
16:36<chillcore>beforemy code it was 7 so yes needed
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16:36<frosch123> <- action2var: remove some code to enable usage of ottd11 features for shorter grf output; functioncall: add a getbits() build-in function, which i miss every time i tell someone on the forums how to do something
16:36<@Alberth>please don't explain now chillcore
16:37<chillcore>I'll do as I think is best and add comments ;)
16:37<V453000>frosch123: what in human language? :D
16:37<frosch123>V453000: better nml :p
16:38<frosch123>"better" is always a good name
16:38<V453000>or yet another
16:38<V453000>always works
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: wtf is "ottd11"? :p
16:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: ottd ported to c++11
16:39<frosch123>LordAro finished it
16:39<frosch123>well, almost
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>did we do that?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but how is replacing some ops with another op related to c++11?
16:40<frosch123>almost as in, all but a finite amount of lines
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16:41<@Alberth>chillcore: the problem is the patch system itself, it gives very little context so I cannot see what things 'frequency' and the constant actually is. Your code is probably fine
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that definition of "almost" only really works for infinite sets :p
16:42<chillcore>Alberth I understand.
16:42<frosch123>it's just an alternative way to talk about the empty set
16:43<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: but seriously, ottd11 means 1.1 branch
16:43<LordAro>wait, wat
16:43<frosch123>branched in year 11 of the ottd millenium
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and that really needs an abbreviation
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16:45<frosch123>well, i have folders for all the ottd branches i tested to backported to
16:45<frosch123>and because i never deleted anything since 1992, i also have a folder for the ottd 1.1 branch
16:45<frosch123>and since i do not like special chars in filenames, it's called ottd11
16:46<frosch123>and then i got used to always writing it like that
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16:47<@Alberth>frosch123: doesn't nml always call 'simplify expression' immediately as well?
16:47<@Alberth>not sure that's actually neede though
16:47<frosch123>Alberth: what do you mean by that?
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16:48<@Alberth>something like part3 = part3.reduce() at line 64
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but why artificially making it more complicated by inserting /2^n intead of <<n?
16:49<Samu_>is this explanation clear?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>or >>n
16:49<Samu_>oh, I see you guys are busy, sorry
16:49<@Alberth>don't remember the precise parameters to reduce
16:50<@Alberth>Eddi: I hope that is not for me
16:51<frosch123>well, nml does the reduce stuff, so i do not need to add it separately
16:52<@Alberth>looks fine to me otherwise
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i meant: even if there was a reduce function, you shouldn't make it more complicated for that function than necessary
16:58<@Alberth>but all that code gets deleted, isn't it?
16:58<@Alberth>in general, newgrf is weird, don't expect it to have a sane set of computing operators :p
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but you sounded like "why delete that code? reduce is run anyway"
16:59<frosch123>before ottd11 there were no grf operators for those << >> things
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but nml-produced grfs need 1.2 anyway
16:59<frosch123>so nml replaced them with above magic
16:59<frosch123>somewhen someone added the grf operators to the operator definition, but did not remove the wrappers
17:00<frosch123>with removing the wrappers, the sleeping operators become alive :p
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, back then people probably assumed that shifts are done with the normal varadjust stuff
17:01<frosch123>you mean they assumed it were always constants
17:01<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I didn't complain against removing that code, I would have been more explicit then, but I have seen that code, I know that nml does a lot of reduce calls in that area, and it was missing here, hence my question of it missing
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i probably misread then
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17:02<@Alberth>fair enough
17:06<Samu_>im so bored
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17:09<chillcore>Alberth: almost done with documenting and stuffs.
17:10<chillcore>checking the logs to see if I missed something
17:10<chillcore>the optional patch I will split too as it does three things; it will still be optional
17:10<@Alberth>I am not going to read that again tonight :p
17:11<chillcore>np. as usual whenever is fine ;)
17:12<chillcore>I never want things done now ... I k know it comes across like that sometimes but that is my bad choice of words (not adding enough of them)
17:13<chillcore>the thread will be bumped when I am done
17:13<@Alberth>yeah, you sound so eager when keeping me up to date on what you do :)
17:13<chillcore>I know
17:14<chillcore>sorry about that
17:14<Samu_>what about me
17:14<@Alberth>Samu_: you seem to ask the same questions endlessly
17:15<@Alberth>in particular questions which are easy to find
17:15<@Alberth>I have no problems that you don't want to look them up, but please then also don't expect me to answer them
17:16<frosch123>did opengfx add new sprites for aditional zoom levels?
17:16<chillcore>I aways had that ... when I 'ask' something of peeps whenever is fine but when I 'feel' like doing something myself yesterday is a week too late
17:16<chillcore>makes sense?
17:17<chillcore>kinda hard to explain
17:17<@Alberth>you're too hard on yourself :)
17:17<chillcore>hmm yeah maybe
17:17<@Alberth>I also have that problem though :p
17:18<@Alberth>it's hard to understand how much you can ask for
17:18<chillcore>you're too hard on yourself ;)
17:18<chillcore>and yes
17:20<Samu_>that comment is bigger than the code :(
17:20<Samu_>the whole patch combined, even
17:20<@Alberth>quite Samu_, I wondered about that too
17:20<@Alberth>the fact that you do a function call gets totally lost
17:21<@Alberth>the problem however is how to fix that, I don't know the answer to that question
17:22<@Alberth>maybe make a new function that computes the tile owner?
17:23<@Alberth>which should make the if/else simpler, as you can simply return when done
17:25<chillcore>good nigh
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17:27<Samu_>hmm funny, now that I re-read what I wrote, I think I don't need to check for that bit
17:28<Samu_>instead of checking for the bit, check if the original wc was also river
17:29<Samu_>brb, testing
17:29<frosch123>hmm, weird
17:30<frosch123>pm added the sprites from ogfx+biggui to ogfx as alternative sprites
17:30<frosch123>but ottd doesn't actually use them
17:30<frosch123>were they an investment in case someone improved ottd?
17:36<chillcore>maybe for later when extra zoom sprites were added to opengfx?
17:37<chillcore>I vaguely remember something when he added them ... but details escape me at the moment
17:37<chillcore>exact details that is
17:38<Samu_>uh, oops i broke my code
17:38<Samu_>grrr why did i touch it
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i was under the impression that the sprites are used if you set x2 or x4 gui zoom
17:40<frosch123>one should hope that, but it does not work for me
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure you use the right version? :p
17:42<frosch123>hmm, actually it works in some places
17:43<chillcore>is biggui complete now? I thought there were a few sprites missing?
17:43<frosch123>they are still missing
17:43<chillcore>ok then I was not dreaming xD
17:43<frosch123>anyway, since the we have built-in gui zoom, the biggui grf is obsolete
17:44<frosch123>it is now part of regular ogfx
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17:44<frosch123>but gui zoom is still buggy all over the place :)
17:44<Samu_>:) re-fixed my code, now without using the bit :)
17:44<Samu_>mucho happy
17:44<frosch123>ah, i see where the "in some places" comes from
17:45<frosch123>it works for the extra grf, but not for the actual base grfs
17:45<frosch123>maybe i try a "make clean" then
17:48<frosch123>yup, worked
17:49<frosch123>most devzone makefiles are broken :)
17:49<chillcore><frosch123> anyway, since the we have built-in gui zoom, the biggui grf is obsolete
17:49<chillcore> it is now part of regular ogfx <- what happens with original graphics?
17:49<chillcore>just curious without testing :P
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>they just get scaled
17:50<chillcore>ok thank you
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>no higher resolution
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>just blocky
17:50<frosch123>if you used original graphics with ogfx+biggui, you did not have original gui :p
17:50<frosch123>anyway, only V and andy use original graphics
17:50<frosch123>any they do not play, but only talk here
17:50<frosch123>so, who cares :p
17:50<chillcore>I have not tested that is it
17:50*Eddi|zuHause hides
17:51<chillcore>I have them but only use them for testing purposes
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>some parts of how opengfx look really bother me...
17:55<frosch123>oi, the biggui sprites for the vehicle lists are actually prettier than the normal zoom ones
17:57<frosch123>the only part of ogfx which i do not like are the bus- (and equivalent egrvts tram-) graphics
17:57<frosch123>but i always play with heqs anyway
17:58<frosch123>wrt. the rest, i prefer ogfx over original meanwhile
17:58<frosch123>the original sprites are really noisy now
18:00<chillcore>I like toyland very much
18:01<frosch123>yup, but don't tell V :p
18:01<@Terkhen>good night
18:02<chillcore>just the terrain is a bit busy but other then that ...
18:02<chillcore>good night Terkhen
18:02<frosch123>damn, the ogfx makefile is really bonkers
18:03<chillcore>I had firs in toyland before that was a thing :P
18:03<Samu_>now without HasBit
18:10<chillcore>tgp.cpp needs a whole lot of cleaning
18:10<chillcore>I will tackle that in my gui version
18:11<chillcore>taking my time to do it properly tested
18:11<chillcore>for now all these magic nrs. can stay IMHO
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18:12<chillcore>not breaking what is not broken and all that
18:13<chillcore>I hate rush jobs ... nothing but troubs
18:13<chillcore>but they will go
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18:15<chillcore>I'll make sure to have seperate patches for that ;)
18:17<chillcore>some parts indeed rip
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18:21<chillcore>I understand what happens, but not good enough how it happens to just start ripping
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18:26<Samu_>question about graphics, when i place a dock, the graphics are sometimes not drawn immediately
18:27<Samu_>i have to move the mouse cursor
18:27<Samu_>to make it draw
18:28<chillcore>is the game paused?
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18:30<chillcore>disabling build while paused solves it?
18:30<Samu_>i let it build when paused
18:30<Samu_>it's a graphic glitch of some kind
18:30<chillcore>that is not what I asked
18:32<chillcore>it is ticks not advancing of some kind
18:32<frosch123>sprinkle some MarkTileDirtyByTile over the place
18:32<chillcore>and that
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18:33<Samu_>oh, that's what that command does?
18:35<Samu_>when paused: Allow all actions
18:37<Samu_>seems to happen when i load a game game that was paused when it was saved
18:37<Samu_>save game*
18:41<chillcore>if you want to change the setting of a game you have to do so ingame
18:41<chillcore>changes made from main menu is for new games
18:42<chillcore>not that you have to change settings ... just saying
18:43<Samu_>can't change this setting, it's grayed out
18:46<chillcore>did you see what frosch wrote too?
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18:48<Samu_>yes, but i'm unsure exactly where i put that
18:48<Samu_>after MakeDock?
18:51<Samu_>there is a static void DrawTile_Station(TileInfo *ti)
18:51<Samu_>shortly after
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19:00<chillcore>anyone know per chance if gedit has an extention (or option) to show spaces and tabs?
19:01<+glx>probably like any correct editor
19:01<Samu_>MarkTileDirtyByTile(tile + TileOffsByDiagDir(direction), 0);
19:01<Samu_>this seems to have fixed it lol
19:02<Samu_>none of the other stations have this line
19:03<Samu_>oh, sorry, there's 2 other occurences after all
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19:04<chillcore>glx: I just can not find it at first glance ... I'll have a better look in a bit.
19:04<chillcore>other texteditors are available ... this one reminds me of notepad++ and feels lightweight
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19:05<+glx>there's a plugin it seems
19:05<chillcore>thank you very much.
19:07<frosch123>chillcore: i use geany as leightweight editor
19:09<chillcore>I can have a look at that too to see if it pleases me better, frosch
19:10<chillcore>not hat I am displeased at all ... just beats clicking all lines if I can see em
19:12<Samu>moving on to my next task
19:13<Samu>the bit flag
19:13<Samu>yeah Canal on river bit flag
19:13<Samu>seems to be the easier one (hopefully)
19:14<Samu>i've been doing HasBit(blabla.m6,0), but it's time to give it a proper english name
19:14<chillcore>what's with these proposed packages? just random?
19:15<chillcore>not installing zeitgeist ...
19:15<chillcore>I removed that already
19:15<chillcore>came with something else
19:15<chillcore>I can remember myself what i did
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19:17<chillcore>yay tabs and spaces \o/
19:19<Samu>uhm... i have to ask
19:19<chillcore>and this geany looks interesting very much too ...
19:19<Samu>I need an enum
19:21<Samu>but i can't put it at m5 :(
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19:33<chillcore>hmm lightweight he said ... comes with console and all
19:34*chillcore likes
19:34<chillcore>rubbadubdub geany in a botle
19:35<chillcore>s console/terminal
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20:27<Zoidzerg>Is the binaries server down? I'm getting connection timed out errors
20:28<Sylf>the US mirror of it is working for me
20:28<Sylf>and its gateway
20:29<Sylf>but thinks it's down
20:30<Zoidzerg>Thanks, the US one works for me too
20:30<Zoidzerg>It's the hu.binaries that fails for me
20:30<Zoidzerg>(which is where I get sent by default)
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20:55<chillcore>anyone can comment on this?
20:55<chillcore> int amount_of_amplitudes = lengthof(amplitudes_small[0]; // We just need the nr. of params 1 setting has here.
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20:55<chillcore>not so happy with the name of variable not the comment
20:55<chillcore>s not/nor
20:56<chillcore>lack of inspiration ...
20:57<Sylf>amplitude magnitude :P
20:57<chillcore>trying to move that out of the code where it is used as not to cause confusion
20:57<chillcore>hmm it is not that ... 1 setting has 10 params
20:57<chillcore>it is the 10 I need
20:58<chillcore>one line later
20:58<chillcore>but if I pick one or the other setting does not matter
20:58<chillcore>also thenr of params can change it was 7 before
20:59<Sylf>so, you want a new name for amplitudes_small?
20:59<chillcore>no that I need somewhere else
21:00<chillcore>int index = frequency - MAX_TGP_FREQUENCIES + amount_of_amplitutudes);
21:00<chillcore>it was in there
21:00<Sylf>sounds like I'm completely clueless. I better shut up.
21:00<chillcore>but +10 -10 is just frequency
21:01<chillcore>I could do that but if later it changes then that person will have a hard time figuring out that he needs to re-add that
21:01<chillcore>hmm ... thanks for the hellp anyway
21:01<chillcore>much apreciated
21:02<chillcore>eg. I might make the arrays for small maps smaller ...
21:02<chillcore>as in later not now
21:02<chillcore>I will know what to do but someone else not
21:03<chillcore>read: 10 - 7 (as was before) is not just frequency and will give errors if not crash
21:04<chillcore>yay magic
21:05<chillcore> // We just need the nr. of params 1 setting has here. we could have picked any setting so we take the first we see.
21:06<chillcore>will do for now I guess
21:09<chillcore>amount_of_params ?
21:10<chillcore>it will come to me
21:11<supermop>UE4 taaking long time to nstall
21:12<chillcore>hmm steam only does +-6MB/s
21:12<chillcore>on a good day
21:13<supermop>maybe i should plug into router instead of wifi
21:13<chillcore>depends your wifi speed
21:13<supermop>i should see if i can get my boss/client to buy me a monitor
21:14<supermop>my laptop only has a 13" screen
21:14<supermop>which i have been using for cad and 3d work
21:14<chillcore>yeah I plug in external everything too
21:15<chillcore>wish I had 2 ports for monitors
21:15<supermop>hmm ethernet doesn't make a difference
21:15<supermop>i used to use a desktop with two monitors years ago
21:16<supermop>by years i mean 12 years i guess
21:17<supermop>i've had this sony for 5 years, and a similar sony for 5 years before that
21:17<supermop>i'd buy another but they stopped making them
21:17<chillcore>I do way longer with my stuffs
21:17<supermop>the 10 year old sony still works too
21:18<supermop>i just wanted an i7 and ssd 5 years ago and had just got a new job
21:18<supermop>im not sure what else i need now other than bigger ssd and more ram
21:18<supermop>already have as much ram as will fit in this one
21:18<chillcore>still no SSD here
21:19<chillcore>limited lifespan, small ...
21:19<chillcore>ok it is fast
21:20<Eddi|zuHause><chillcore> but if I pick one or the other setting does not matter <-- you might want to make an assert_compile that they all have the same length (or an assert, if it's dynamic)
21:20<supermop>i've had several HDD physically fail, ssd never has yet
21:21<chillcore>it is not yet dynamic but it might be later Eddi|zuHause
21:21<chillcore>also nr of params can not be bigger then MAX_TGP_FREQUENCIES
21:21<chillcore>it will not compile
21:22<chillcore>just that now they are equal
21:22<chillcore>can be less no prob
21:22<chillcore>Rub*dium made sure of that
21:23<chillcore>some time ago
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, i can't judge how much sense that line makes
21:23<chillcore>lots that is why I am hesitant to change it
21:24<chillcore>I do want to getthe correct frequncy during looping over that part of the code
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21:26<chillcore>supermop: sure, but SSD already knows when it will stop working before you start using it
21:26<chillcore>overwrite this many times
21:26<supermop>better than not knowing and taking a chance
21:28<chillcore>I am not saying they are bad ... I just don't want others to decide when my things break
21:29<chillcore>it breaks when it breaks I am cool with that
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>so you don't buy food that has a "good before <X>" date?
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>or lightbulbs that say "works for 1000 hours"
21:31<chillcore>sure and then they go for 2000 if you'e lucky
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>i guess i was never lucky
21:31<chillcore>or 500 if not
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>the 4 lightbulbs i had in my lamp always broke within few weeks of each other
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>then i buy new ones, and they again all break roughly at the same time
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>now i got LEDs, which said they're good for 15 years
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>(in lightbulb speak, 1000 hours equals 1 year)
21:34<+glx>and it's 1000 hours full time without switching them off
21:34<chillcore>they could make em go 3000
21:34<chillcore>but then the other brands would no longer sell
21:35<+glx>I was lucky if it lasted 3 months
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21:35<chillcore>that is shortish
21:36<+glx>8 hour/day
21:36<+glx>well night not day ;)
21:38<+glx>energy saving ones last way longer
21:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, if you use them for three times as long for each day, they last only a third of the time in days :p
21:39<chillcore>if you leave em on all the time they last longer
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>but only up to a point...
21:40<chillcore>but yeah cheaper to buy new
21:40<chillcore>and yeah up to a point
21:42<supermop>a decent ssd has enough write cycles to last longer beiing used everyday than most people would keep a computer, so i prefer that to having a read head plow into the disk surface as a fluke a couple years into a hard drives life of less
21:43<supermop>with something like a hard drive reliability is much more important than longevity
21:44<chillcore>^^^ no sarcasm
21:44<supermop>and the speed helps a lot as well - as i am still using what was just ok amount of ram in 2010
21:44<supermop>the ssd gets used as extra memory during some photoshop or rendering use
21:45<supermop>faster makes a big difference there
21:46<supermop>in fact the biggest difference iv'e ever noticed in computer's overall speed has been due to ssds
21:46<Eddi|zuHause>i bought more ram at the same time as the SSD, and disabled swap at that time...
21:46<supermop>also the computer runs cooler and quieter, and battery lasts longer
21:47<chillcore>hmm ok
21:47<chillcore>you've got a point there
21:47<chillcore>more then one
21:47<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i bought my computer with most ram it would fit, so unfortunately i cannot upgrade now
21:48<+glx>one of the problems with laptops ;)
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>the additional ram was twice as much as i already had, and cost half as much...
21:48<chillcore>ye like my phone said 8gb micro max ... I have 32 in it no prob
21:49<chillcore>the what if nut in me
21:49<supermop>glx: at the time i was living in manhattan, and could not afford the extra space to hold a desk to hold a desktop
21:49<chillcore>or 16 have to check
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21:50<+glx>for now I have 2x4GB and room for expansion
21:52<supermop>and laptop let me move to australia with only 2 suitcases and a box for my bike
21:59<Eddi|zuHause>you bring your bike on an airplane?
22:00<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a new bike?
22:03*chillcore re-reads code tommorow morning before posting
22:03<chillcore>I think I have covered all remarks (read: hints/pointers)
22:08<chillcore>I should reduce range for tgen params to -1/1 exluding 0 and use floats... :P
22:08<chillcore>needs comma in validate
22:08<Eddi|zuHause>needs regexp :p
22:08<chillcore>but it would work fine
22:09<Eddi|zuHause>(this is a valid number)
22:10*chillcore wonder how devs will react :P
22:10<chillcore>you wut?
22:10<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: flight to aus gets you 3 free checked bags, disassembled bike in a box is small enough to count as a bag
22:11<supermop>selling bike in the us and buying the same one again here would lose money as everything here cost at least 10% more at that time
22:12<supermop>now the weakened AUD has negated some of that effect
22:12<chillcore>I once drove a guy to the airport in paris ... 80kg handbagage
22:12<supermop>thats a lot of kilograms
22:12<chillcore>part for a ship near pananma
22:13<supermop>i assume he wasn't paying for the baggage himself?
22:13<chillcore>the thing that holds a piston in place
22:13<chillcore>I think i was the captain
22:13<chillcore>but they flew all the way here
22:13<chillcore>one guy that is
22:13<supermop>you think? you don't recall if you were the captain of a ship?
22:15<chillcore>darned did not see that
22:16<chillcore>I don't recall how much he payed but it was lots
22:16<supermop>i bet
22:17<supermop>i was talking to a guy who founded a company that makes custom handmade bikes once
22:17<chillcore>that lady at the counter did not even lift an eyebrow
22:17<supermop>and he was saying it was cheaper for him to fly to europe with a bike everytime they got an order there than to ship the bike
22:20*chillcore has vision of smugglers with bike up ...
22:21-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:23<chillcore>I should catch some sleep ... else it will be 6 am again before I know it
22:23<chillcore>good night
22:24-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.]
22:31<supermop>this thing is still installing...
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 28 00:00:10 2015