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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-28

---Logopened Sat Mar 28 00:00:10 2015
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04:14-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
04:14<chillcore>good morning
04:14<chillcore>sleeping again gave me inspiration ...
04:15<chillcore>amount_of_params -> lollyood
04:15<chillcore>I don't want to get sued ...
04:16<chillcore>hehe ...
04:17<chillcore>riddles ...
04:20<chillcore>I'll change it to not lollywood and then tell
04:21<chillcore>but yeah the best things to do do come when not doing it
04:21<chillcore>it being thinking about it
04:22<chillcore>s when /while
04:27<chillcore>just got to fix this this compiler error now ....
04:28-!-Maxwell [] has joined #openttd
04:28<Maxwell>I need help
04:28<chillcore>just ask ;)
04:29<Maxwell>cool, i am trying to access the openttd file on my computer. The game says it is in my home file, but my computer can't see it. I am running ubuntu
04:30<chillcore>show hidden files
04:30<V453000>get rid of linux XD
04:31<V453000> /end of constructive help
04:31<Maxwell>wow man, so mean :p
04:31<V453000>idk, google how to show hidden files? :D
04:31<chillcore>second option on top of file explorer in there
04:32<chillcore>^^^ MATE here
04:32<chillcore>and dutch
04:32<V453000>apparently ctrl+H works too
04:32<chillcore>third option on top ...
04:33<Maxwell>ctrl+h worked for me to see it
04:33<chillcore>this programmers counting ... we start at 0
04:33<Maxwell>how is mate btw
04:33<chillcore>also section 4.2 of readme ;)
04:33<chillcore>mate is oldshool windoze like ... me likes
04:34<chillcore>much lighter then unity
04:34<Maxwell>yeah, unity is quite bulky
04:34<Maxwell>but, I like the interface a lot
04:34<chillcore>huhu none of that in MATE
04:34<Maxwell>loads up fast?
04:35<chillcore>at boot it takes a few seconds but yeah
04:35<chillcore>no complaints here ... never in a rush
04:35<Maxwell>yeah, I miss that about lubuntu
04:35<Maxwell>quick loading times
04:36<Maxwell>unity has almost the same loading time as kde
04:36<chillcore>I don't like the mobile application look
04:36<chillcore>also if you have multiple windows open of the same app
04:36<Maxwell>I can understand that
04:37<chillcore>but whatever rocks their boat ;)
04:37<Maxwell>I am a big fan of gnome except for the huge waste of space at the top of the windows
04:38<Maxwell>I am over ocd about how things look and that bugged me to no end
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04:38<Maxwell>so, I just made unity more gnome like
04:39<chillcore>but I left Ubuntu when that was introduced so things may have changed
04:39<Maxwell>there is one problem with unity and making it gnome like, unity doesn't remember hotcorners
04:39<chillcore>it was way to slow and heavy on the system for me
04:40<chillcore>good morning alberth
04:40<Maxwell>oh, I started using linux after they introduced unity
04:41<Maxwell>so, I don't know what it was really like before that
04:41<Maxwell>I know ubuntu used gnome
04:41<chillcore>you can change desktop but not get rid of unity
04:41<chillcore>it was better for me
04:41<chillcore>try 11.10 or something like that
04:41<Maxwell>I can still get that?!
04:42<chillcore>if whenever you have some time
04:42<chillcore>it should be available that is
04:42<Maxwell>need to find it
04:42<chillcore>but security ... keep it offline
04:42<Maxwell>yeah, it is a bit under supported lol
04:44<supermop>i wish they still sold vaios outside of japan
04:44<supermop>my 5 year old computer seems to have met its match working in ue4
04:45<Maxwell>the sony computer?
04:46<supermop>i love mine, and my previous one
04:46<supermop>but it's sort of absurd to use something this old for the work i do
04:46<Maxwell>if it still works then it is good
04:47<Maxwell>it isn't obsolete then
04:47<supermop>works fine
04:47<Maxwell>A computer is only obsolete if it can't do what you want it to do
04:47<supermop>but 8gb ram is not enough really for stuff i want to do now
04:48<supermop>and while that was a lot in a laptop in 2010 it is barely sufficient for modelling and rendering now
04:48<supermop>rendering i don't mind, I can just let it take longer to render
04:48<@Alberth>silly programs
04:49<supermop>but if i am running autocad, openttd, a browser, and rhino it's a bit anemic
04:49<Maxwell>my computer has 4
04:49<supermop>add unreal to that mix and it slows down
04:50<supermop>of course people may say i do not need openttd running while i am doing work though....
04:50<@Alberth>ha, I'd kill the browser instead :p
04:51<@Alberth>probably gives you a lot more memory :)
04:52<supermop>although often i am consulting information in it
04:52<@Alberth>yeah, me too
04:52<supermop>or playing youtube videos or soundcloud podcasts to stave off monotony
04:53<chillcore>max(int, int) is hating me so much ... does not take uints
04:53<@Alberth>mostly it hates combinations
04:54<chillcore>there is no max(uint, uint) right?
04:54<chillcore>small function ... lucky me
04:54<@Alberth>that should work too
04:54<chillcore>hmm ... ok
04:54<@Alberth>but max<uint>(a, b)
04:55<chillcore>ok trying that then
04:55<@Alberth>check the type of the arguments, you probably have int uint or the other way around
04:56<supermop>gah computers are so expensive
04:56<chillcore>magic 2 and ceildiv, alberth
04:56<chillcore>tropic forest fix
04:56<@Alberth>2u ?
04:56<supermop>this toshiba would be 1600 usd and im not sure it would be that much better than my vaio
04:57<@Alberth>you didn't save any money the last 5 years for a replacement? :)
04:57<supermop>well if you figure a laptop gets replaced every 2.5 years
04:58<supermop>and my last laptops were used for 5 years each,
04:58<@Alberth>you can buy 3 now :)
04:58<supermop>I should be able to spend three times as much
04:58<supermop>unfortunately this is somehow not reflected in my bank account
04:59<@Alberth>living too much the good life :)
05:00<supermop>or not quite the life of someone who can buy a computer when they need to
05:00<@Alberth>yeah, but that's a much less nice option :p
05:00<chillcore>100 euros get you one that runs faster than todays machines
05:00<chillcore>on 1 core that is
05:01<chillcore>and some machines
05:02<supermop>as of that time, 2.5 years were as a student, 1 year working for a good salary, 1.5 years unemployed, 4 years working for a low salary, and year working freelance for not much at all in a strange country
05:02<supermop>so i'm impressed i was even able to afford the last computer 5 years ago!
05:03<chillcore>I pondered saving up for a top of the line
05:03<chillcore>but then realised it will be outdated soon
05:04<chillcore>so I get top of the line of 5 years ago
05:04<chillcore>me happe for a fraction of the cost
05:05<supermop>i'd buy a 2014 vaio z - last year that sony made them - if i could get a good deal
05:06<chillcore>next year maybe or find a nut :P
05:07<supermop> seems to be obliging!
05:08<chillcore>uint max_desert_height = max<uint>(2, CeilDiv(top_tile, 4));
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05:08<chillcore>this works ... thank you Albert
05:08<chillcore>s works/compiles ... testing
05:09<@Alberth>I think we use uint too much :)
05:09<chillcore>maybe ...
05:11<chillcore>all is good ... aplying rest of patches and testing again
05:12*chillcore tries to sneak in permanent rivers :P
05:12<chillcore>noone will notice maybe
05:13<@Alberth>sure, nobody reads irc anyway
05:15<@Alberth>for a river, it makes a lot of sense, imho
05:16<@Alberth>but it adds a ribbon of problems in the landscape
05:17<@Alberth>on the other hand, you can bridge it, so much less worse than antennas
05:17<@Alberth>and you can do shipping on it
05:17<chillcore>yes and I was lucky to get the working and clean version when I 'forced' him tro post it before wanting to help more
05:17<chillcore>so sad
05:18<chillcore>I wonder how he will react if it makes trunk wthout the rest ...
05:18<chillcore>hmm worries for later
05:18<chillcore>maybe he will come to his senses
05:18<@Alberth>we'd need a saner dock for rivers/canals, I think
05:19<chillcore>that pier is kinda evil
05:19<chillcore>it is water but it is not
05:19<@Alberth>as is having to build a slope next to the canal
05:19<chillcore>oh like that
05:19<chillcore>yes maybe
05:20<chillcore>it could use some foundation magics?
05:20<@Alberth>would be nice if you can just make a dock alongside a canal
05:20<chillcore>that too
05:20<chillcore>but that code is not for me ... not yet anyways
05:21<chillcore>just not sure how you'd connect it to road
05:22<chillcore>road goes on slope
05:22<chillcore>like where you put boats in water
05:22<chillcore>but dock surface is one up
05:22<chillcore>and if you raise tile ...
05:23<@Alberth>no tile raising imho
05:23<chillcore>in th eother direction you get autoslope so that would work
05:24<chillcore>not enough coffee yet ...
05:24<@Alberth>just dock graphics
05:24<@Alberth>/me gives a coffee
05:25<@Alberth>hmm, why do I have 760 newgrfs, where I don't use about 750 of them? :p
05:25<chillcore>hehe I don' want to know how many I have
05:26<chillcore>I currently disabled the old folder for now
05:29<chillcore>scanning for giggles ... was 1016
05:29<chillcore>scanning ...
05:30<chillcore>and there must be more ... on other HDDs
05:30<chillcore>yay bugpack
05:31<chillcore>anyhoo re-reading changes made one more time
05:31<chillcore>should be good-ish now
05:34<chillcore><Alberth> just dock graphics <- so how do forklifts get on the dock?
05:34<chillcore>not that they will and realism, but the illusion will be broken?
05:36<@Alberth>graphics artists will solve that :)
05:36<chillcore>yeah most likely
05:40<V453000>omg relative and absolute offsets in sprite aligner
05:42<V453000>regarding the reserved path showing in tunnels/bridges
05:42<V453000>can I replace those sprites ONLY for a certain railtype?
05:42<V453000>... making PURR
05:42<V453000>reserved path in tunnel shows to me as sprite 1005
05:43<V453000>which is the normal overlay sprite for tracks
05:43<V453000>so I guess if I replace 1005, normal tracks will go bork
05:44<V453000>flat doq
05:44<V453000>andythenorth would love
05:44<@Alberth>yep :)
05:45<chillcore>that would work yes Alberth, I envisioned them like that but on water instead
05:46<chillcore>and sea
05:46<chillcore>looks nice
05:49<@Alberth>V453000: juzza made the relative offsets
05:52<chillcore>Alberth: them headscratchers you mentioned yesterday, they are needed indeed for other functions to keep working. I'll add moar comments and explain when I have awoken
05:52<V453000>I am more curious about the reserved tracks sprites
05:52<V453000>pm told me once that it is possible to fix
05:52<V453000>but i dont see how :(
05:52<V453000>where is planetmaker anyway
05:52<V453000>running somewhere with a bow or what :D
05:53<@Alberth>hiking on an island
05:53<V453000>tis what I said
05:53<chillcore>also if you need those explanations ... anyhoo
05:53<@Alberth>although I sort of expect him back soon-ish
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05:55<@Alberth>chillcore: no worries, I'll ask for them when needed :)
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05:56<chillcore>that is what I meant yes ;)
05:57<chillcore>still adding a few comments
05:57<@Alberth>/me starts collecting forms and signatures to file such requests
05:57<supermop>i like the idea to just reuse bits of ogfx dock
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05:58<@Alberth>it was just a quick hack, any graphics artist will be able to better than me :)
05:58<supermop>seems like parts of lock or canal edge would work too without being so tall?
05:58<supermop>i like the idea of doing quick hacks to get things working!
05:58<chillcore>Alberth: haha the pink carbon copy one is for keepers?
05:58<supermop>the perfect is the enemy of the good
05:59<@Alberth>chillcore: obviously
05:59<@Alberth>supermop: hmm, there isn't any code yet :p
06:00<supermop>well that's a little less perfect but still
06:00<@Alberth>a single tile would be enough I think, at least for the game
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06:06<supermop>but two or 3 would look nice for ships alongside
06:07<supermop>man fujitsu makes a 'laptop' with 32gb of ram
06:08<supermop>they call it a mobile workstation and it looks as big as a Gutenberg bible
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06:15<chillcore>hmm commenting a comment ... must do better
06:17<chillcore>just explaining what happens will have to do I am afraid
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06:32<chillcore>and this is not future proof so ... almost rewritten the whole thing now ... :P
06:38<@Alberth>patches tend to expand :p
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06:47<V453000>wondering whether I want to make RAWR rails less fat
06:47<V453000>moar narrow
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06:52<chillcore>hg ... great for quicka and testing but so easy to commit to the worng patch ...
06:53<chillcore>and dirty*
06:53<chillcore>also spelling*
06:56<chillcore>not sure v453000 ... maybe the top a bit more roundish does wonders?
06:56<chillcore>also sleepers a bit wider?
06:57<V453000>nah I will make maglev a bit more fat instead
06:57<chillcore>I feel like they are not enough exposed outside the track ... that may be just me so feel free to ignore
06:57<V453000>hm yeah though
06:58<V453000>joy of doing sleepers by texture ._.
06:58<@peter1138>lol, post addressed to "Mr Peter"
06:58<@Alberth>haha :)
06:58<V453000>I took it from a photo of tracks so the sleepers are whatever they just were as in the photo
06:58<chillcore>V453000: sleepers: for the wooden bridge it looks fine
06:59<V453000>they are the same everywhere chillcore :P
06:59<chillcore>ye I figured that much after hitting enter :P
06:59<chillcore>hehe mister N.
07:00<@peter1138>post that andy sent to me was address to "Peter N" :)
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07:47<chillcore>the name of an array of ints can be refered too as an int too right?
07:48<chillcore>or am I being silly now?
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07:49<Zoidzerg>you mean the array can be used as a pointer to an int?
07:49<chillcore>ah rigth that is what I have read ... got confused a bit
07:50<chillcore>Thank you Zoidzerg
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08:01<@Rubidium>chillcore: it's much better to just refer to everything as arrays of bits ;)
08:04<chillcore>hmm ok? ... I am afraid that if you try to explain I will not follow.
08:05<chillcore>what you just said confuses me already ... books and me needing to read those part
08:06<chillcore>basically I need to fetch the correct arry and pass that to a valu so I can get the lenght of that
08:06<@Rubidium>what's a string? An array of characters. What's a character? Effectively an int (usually 8 or 16 bits, but 32 bits occurs as well). What's an int? Just an array of bits, i.e. an array of 8 bits and you got a byte. Although, with bits it's often called a bitmask but that's mostly synonymous to array for bits in any case
08:06<chillcore>hmm ok
08:06<@Rubidium>having said that, in C/C++ arrays do not store their own length
08:07<@Rubidium>yes, there is the lengthof macro in OpenTTD, but that only works on statically sized arrays in which case the compiler keeps track of its length
08:07<chillcore>my code works but I am trying to make it future proof for if/when arrays do not have the same lenght
08:08<@Rubidium>if they are array, and not points, then the lengthof trick might work. Just grep for lengthof in OpenTTD's source
08:08<chillcore>pretty much the last thing (or the thing before that) you commited in tgp.cpp
08:09<@Rubidium>however, when they are points or references to arrays with unknown length, the lengthof test will ALWAYS return a length of 1
08:09<chillcore>I know how to getthe lenght
08:09<@Rubidium>why can't I type the "er" of pointer?
08:09<chillcore>but yeah pointers ... I sux at them
08:10<chillcore>I'll have a look as I used them in my other versin
08:10<chillcore>copy pasted and modified
08:11<chillcore>writing it all out is a bad habbit of mine
08:11<chillcore>gonna hit this book after this patch
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08:12<chillcore>thank you for the explanation Rubidium
08:14<chillcore>I guess I am trying to shortcut too much
08:15<chillcore>ye permissive errors ... pointers alright ... been there before
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08:21<chillcore>silly me is making this too complicated then it should be ...
08:21<chillcore>as per usual
08:22<chillcore>s too/more
08:22<chillcore>revert to working an redo
08:29<chillcore>instead of fetching the correct array and passing it and then getting the lenght of it with an if else
08:30<chillcore>just get the lenght of the correct one with if else
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08:35<chillcore>seems to work but untill I have arrays of the same size no way of kowing if it is future proof
08:35<chillcore>it compiles and runs
08:36<chillcore>s same/different hmm
08:36<chillcore>racy mind ... testing and keeping quiet for a bit :P
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08:40<@Alberth>assert equal size of the arrays?
08:41<chillcore>not needed?
08:42<chillcore>if we reached the end of (setting in) array we return 0
08:42<chillcore>it checks for trailing 0 IIRC
08:43<chillcore>that is wat that [max(0, index)] is about
08:44<chillcore>and arrays do not have to have the same lenght ... max_fraquency was already 10 and nr of params 7 without prob
08:44<chillcore>before I started messing with it
08:45<chillcore>Rub*dium did that part
08:45<chillcore>but there was but 1 array when he did it
08:45<chillcore>so no different sizes
08:46<chillcore>as long as nr of params is less then Max_frequency all is good
08:46<chillcore>I could add an assert for that
08:47<chillcore>+ or equal
08:47<chillcore>I add that three times just after the arrays ys?
08:48<chillcore>hmm me checks colour usage of small maps terrain height
08:50<chillcore>ofcourse for in 1 array I can not have one setting have 7 params and another 10
08:50<chillcore>that will indeed barf, bt that should be obvious?
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08:52<@Alberth>theoretically it is
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09:05<chillcore>hehe my heightmap colours have their own file ... and someone stole the asserts
09:05<chillcore>checking patchpack code
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09:06<@Alberth>steal them back :p
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09:08<V453000>frog \o/
09:09<chillcore>do I loop over each setting for the re-invenentors of the wheel or just check the first setting?
09:09<chillcore>o/ quack
09:09<frosch123>moin :)
09:10<@Alberth>if you assert them as equal, they are equal?
09:11<@Alberth>at least, I'd hope so :)
09:11<@Alberth>or we are talking about two different subjects :)
09:11<V453000>frosch123: is it possible to replace sprite 1005 and the sloped variant ONLY for some railtype?
09:12<V453000>like, I have PURR replace all of railtypes, but reserved tracks at tunnel entrances and bridge heads show as sprite 1005
09:12<V453000>it it possible to make a sprite which replaces that but doesnt bork the normal rails?
09:12<chillcore>Alberth: I am going to check if the nr of params is not bigger then max frequency ... come to think of it an array has no clue where one setting begins nor ends
09:13<chillcore>the three arrays do not have to be equal at all
09:13<V453000>(sprite 1005 is just a normal straight track overlay)
09:13<chillcore>Alberth: just not bigger then max frequency * nr of settings
09:13<frosch123>aren't all track sprites defined by the railtype grf?
09:14<frosch123>how could you make purr tracks have different colors, if they all use the same sprite?
09:14<V453000>well if those tunnel/bridge reserved track overlay is defined then I dont know how to do it :(
09:14<frosch123>i don't get your question :p
09:14<V453000>purr uses railtypes, normally
09:14<frosch123>reserved track sprites are the same sprites as for junctions
09:14<V453000>but the reserved track sprite on tunnels/bridge heads
09:14<V453000>well not for those two cases
09:15<V453000>I do define junction sprites normally
09:15<V453000>(properly via railtypes)
09:15<V453000>try with PURR :)
09:16<frosch123>ok, made a testgame
09:16<frosch123>looks like a ottd bug :p
09:16<V453000>hm :D
09:16<V453000>okay so I shouldnt worry about it newgrf wise
09:17<V453000>... 32bpp purr has normal rail within it so there the effect will be less visible :)
09:17<V453000>assuming one uses both purr and rawr
09:17<V453000>but it would still be nice if that was fixed :) should I report it to the flything?
09:25<chillcore>assert_compile(lengthof(amplitudes_small) <= MAX_TGP_FREQUENCIES * 4);
09:25<chillcore>another magic nr ...
09:26<@Alberth>number of map types has no count?
09:26<chillcore>just 3 in ssetting ini
09:26<@Alberth>not sure why you allow < tbh
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09:27<chillcore>because 4 settings is 40 params?
09:27<frosch123>[14:25] <chillcore> another magic nr ... <- just had a similar encounter in rail_cmd.cpp :p
09:27<chillcore>but 36 would be fine
09:27<chillcore>37 is just a silly programmer
09:28<chillcore>frosch there is really much magic in setting ini
09:28<chillcore>maybe we should replace all the magic there some day?
09:29<V453000>frosch123: should I report it to flyspray?
09:29<frosch123>wait half an hour
09:29<frosch123>that safes me closing it
09:30<chillcore>Alberth: in tgp.cpp 10 != 10 != 10
09:30<chillcore>that is why I am going to do the magic nrs later
09:30<chillcore>too much rrom for error
09:31<@Alberth>0 is not 10, indeed
09:32<chillcore>logic error in my code?
09:32<@Alberth>(10 != 10) != 10 --> false != 10 --> 0 != 10 --> true
09:32<chillcore>oh ok
09:32<@Alberth>chaining comparisons is hardly ever useful :)
09:33<chillcore>but yeah even if magic nrs are the same their meaning is not at all
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>except in python
09:34<@Alberth>it's not generic, is it?
09:34<chillcore>if I replace them with just one constant we are screwed ... bigtime
09:34<chillcore>well I am
09:34<chillcore>and those after me
09:35<frosch123>Is there a reason why the PBS reservation is only drawn on bridge heads?
09:36<chillcore>ther is no bridge ;)
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09:41<chillcore>haha logic error indeed in my assert
09:41<frosch123> <- better?
09:42<frosch123>there are a few blue pixels on the SW bridgehead
09:42<V453000>considerably? :D
09:42<frosch123>i have to blame them on V
09:42<V453000>possible :)
09:42<@peter1138>Just edit the models...
09:42<frosch123>ah, i need to add some more dirtying
09:43<TrueBrain>what is this blue in the depot?
09:43<@peter1138>Coloured track./
09:43<frosch123>the remnants of a blue cat
09:43<frosch123>what was his name again?
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09:44<V453000>coloured tracks carry the power of the rainbow and unicorns
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09:45<frosch123> <- that one
09:45<chillcore>very nice frosch ... just this little repeating patern on the corners but very nice
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09:48<chillcore>you can avoid that if you do three tiles at once and take a cutout ;)
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09:48<chillcore>but better then what I would produce so
09:48<chillcore>*end nitpicking*
09:51<V453000>lol frosch123 that is just wtf
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09:52<V453000>mostly the explosm stuff is good but this is just wtf :d not even funny
09:52<frosch123>well, it's about cats, or so
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause>ANYTHING about cats MUST go on the internet!
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10:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27207 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2015-03-28 15:00:39 +0100 )
10:00<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Replace some magic integers with the appropiate symbols.
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10:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27208 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2015-03-28 15:03:26 +0100 )
10:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Draw correct overlay sprites for path reservations on bridges and tunnels.
10:04<Samu>oh nice
10:04<Samu>what about dock?
10:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27209 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-03-28 15:04:06 +0100 )
10:04<@DorpsGek>-Add: Draw path reservation on the whole bridge, not only on the bridge heads.
10:07<chillcore>hmm seems like I sux at asserts too XD
10:08<frosch123>./configure --disable-assert :)
10:09<V453000>frosch123: awesome :) thanks so much
10:09<chillcore>that wil help yes , just the geting it commited part
10:09<chillcore>"oh look a birdie" ... push
10:11<Samu>i created an assert line code for the first time
10:11<Samu>i understand them now (i think)
10:12<chillcore>me too ... it barfs at me while trying to compile ... so I guess it works but not as planned
10:12<chillcore>o/ samu
10:13<Samu>say, I am trying to set the canal on river flag
10:14<Samu>I am assuming the tile is indeed a canal
10:14<Samu>what if it isn't
10:15<chillcore>hmm mut be something I did (not do) ... ">=" fails "==" too and ">=" just as hard
10:15<Samu>assert line will make sure I am assigning the canal on river flag to the correct tile
10:16<chillcore>the last one "<="
10:16<Samu>correct tile is one which has a waterclass and it is a canal
10:17<Samu>the [14:14] <Samu> what if it isn't was what was confusing me at first
10:17<Samu>because I was always wondering, why wouldn't it be?
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10:20<chillcore>the thing is samu when you check something and the code does not agree with you, you change the code untill it does ... whether you are right or wrong does not matter much
10:22<chillcore>and that then escalates further
10:23<chillcore>like changing NewGRF ingame
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10:23<chillcore>it can be months later the probs start showing
10:25<Samu>the problem is not the code agreeing with me
10:25<chillcore>I am not saying in this case ;)
10:26<chillcore>maybe something you did in a lower patch
10:27<Samu>"why wouldn't it be?" question was boggling me, because I know what my function does, I wouldn't use it to assign a canal on river for tiles which do not have a canal
10:28<Samu>but others
10:28<Samu>who wish to make use of my function
10:28<Samu>this was what I wasn't thinking
10:29<Samu>when you were saying "the code does not agree with you", it actually means, when "someone sucks at using my function"
10:30<chillcore>I see
10:35<Samu>I suppose I'm too egocentric
10:40<chillcore>if you document your functions right peeps should not use it in the wrong way?
10:40<Samu>yes, i see now why explaining what functions do makes sense
10:41<Samu>it's not because of me, but because of others who want to use it
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10:55<chillcore>sorry phone
10:55<chillcore>then you add the proper explanation of what it does samu
10:56<chillcore>and list the params it needs
10:56<chillcore>also what it returns if it returns something
10:56<chillcore>then it is up to the others to rread and learn
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10:57<chillcore>there is a list of @things on the coding style page
10:57<chillcore>those go above the function
10:58<chillcore>if needed you add more comments inside the function
10:58<chillcore>no idea what else you can do ....
10:58<chillcore>it like these peeps writing books
10:59<chillcore>they do the best they can for the readers to understand
10:59<chillcore>if the future reader does not want to turn cover to begin with ...
10:59<chillcore>no much the writer can do about that
11:00<chillcore>s future/potential
11:02<chillcore><Samu> say, I am trying to set the canal on river flag
11:02<chillcore> I am assuming the tile is indeed a canal
11:02<chillcore> what if it isn't
11:03<chillcore>this confused me ... you do not assume
11:03<chillcore>it is or it is not
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12:01<Samu>how do i report a typo in a document?
12:02<Samu>report it as a bug
12:03<chillcore>yes and if you add a patch that fixes just that you get extra e-points. ;)
12:04<Samu>i rather just point to the typo
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>you misspelled that, it's called e-penis :p
12:04<Samu>is it really needed to provide a patch?
12:04<chillcore>no ...
12:05<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: where am I going to put all these e-penisses
12:05<Samu>oops, typo is nine
12:06<Samu>it's not six, it's nine
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>in the e-vaginas?
12:07<Samu>no category fits this criteria :(~
12:09<@Alberth>just leave it unchanged then
12:09<Samu>the most pointless report,
12:09<Samu>too late
12:10<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: do I have to accept the packages as wel? or can I send those back?
12:10*chillcore foods
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know? :p
12:14<@Alberth>Samu: most useless? nah, you point to an actual issue at least. I have seen way more useless ones
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12:31<Samu>bool river = HasTileCanalOnRiver(cur_tile);
12:31<Samu>is this a good name for the function?
12:32<Samu>canal as, waterclass canal in this case
12:32<Samu>not really canal canal
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12:36<Samu>when shall i mention the word Tile in the name of a function?
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12:36<Samu>cus sometimes this is confusing
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12:41<chillcore>depends the situation samu, namme should describe what funtion does or checks or sets or gets etc.
12:41<chillcore>IsCanalOnRiver() ?
12:42<Samu>There is a IsCanal
12:42<Samu>it really checks if the tile is really canal, not if the tile has the waterclass canal
12:43<Samu>IsCanalOnRiver could be confusing
12:43<chillcore>yes people might know there is a river under it ... if true
12:44<Samu>there are cases when you build stuff on your canal
12:44<Samu>so, IsCanal is false
12:44<chillcore>and case where canal is not on river too
12:44<chillcore>your choice it was just an axample
12:44<Samu>though the waterclass canal is true
12:45<Samu>build a ship depot on a canal
12:45<Samu>IsCanal is now false
12:45<Samu>it's a shipdepot
12:46<Samu>HasCanalOnRiver or HasTileCanalOnRiver?
12:46<Samu>"tile" in the name or no tile?
12:48<chillcore>no idea really samu
12:48<chillcore>what is it you are checking? that is your answer?
12:48<Samu>return HasTileWaterClass(t) && GetWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && GetCanalType(t) == CANAL_AND_RIVER;
12:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27210 trunk/docs/landscape_grid.html (2015-03-28 17:48:46 +0100 )
12:48<@DorpsGek>-Doc[FS#6268]: OpenTTD tiles have more attributes nowadays (Samu).
12:49<Samu>GetCanalType is another function I invented lol
12:49<Samu>still unsure about its name as well
12:50<chillcore>also ... above you
12:51<Samu>nice fix
12:52<@Alberth>yw :)
12:52<Samu>it does nothing!
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12:52<@Alberth>false, it points people to the right view on things
12:53<@Alberth>if you say different things at different places, people get all confused
12:53<@Alberth>like having signs to the same destination, but pointing in different directions
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13:12<chillcore>my programming is top notch again today ... producing 10 lines an hour or less :P
13:12<chillcore>now I hate assert too ...
13:12<chillcore>not really but yeah
13:13<chillcore>trying that again ...
13:13<Samu>static inline CanalType GetCanalType(TileIndex t)
13:13<Samu>wait, i rather just copy paste my code
13:16<@Alberth>hmm, I only committed 4 letter change today :p
13:17<Samu>okay, I got this
13:17<Samu>I question about the first one
13:17<Samu>the comment mentions m5, but cannal on river is on m6
13:17<Samu>what can i possibly do?
13:18<Samu>to avoid confusion
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13:18<Samu>line 13
13:20<@Alberth>add the m number to every line instead
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13:21<@Alberth>the overall comment is clearly too specific, and needs to be widened in scope
13:21<@Alberth>I have no idea what bit layout means though
13:24<Samu>i've checked all the layouts
13:24<Samu>for m5
13:25<Samu>i can't put canal on river at m5 at all
13:26<Samu>lock is using these bits: 000X XXXX
13:26<Samu>ship depot is using these: X000 00XX
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13:27<Samu>then there's station tiles with their docks
13:28<Samu>0XXX 0XXX
13:28<Samu>lock and dock overlap with each other, but since dock is a station tile and it can't be a lock at the same time, there is no problem
13:29<Samu>lock is a water tile
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13:31<Samu>water, canal, rivers, coasts and riverbanks are defined by this 0000 000X
13:31<Samu>X = 0 for canal
13:31<Samu>think im talkign too much
13:32<Samu>X = 0 for canal - the really canal one, not waterclass
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13:33<Samu>okay i'll add the m number to every line instead
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13:40<Samu>i found a bug, about rocks on sub-tropic
13:40<Samu>for some rocks the tile is greener
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13:40<Samu>a stronger green than the other rocks
13:41<chillcore>that bug is known fixed and is now waiting for someone to make sprites
13:41<chillcore>nice find
13:41<chillcore>NewGRF sprites ...
13:42<Samu>uhm,, ok
13:42<chillcore>same happens in other climates
13:42<chillcore>they all use the temerate ones for rock2
13:42<chillcore>spelling* :P
13:48<Samu>m5 Length of the 'type' bitfield.
13:48<Samu>Length of the 'type' bitfield of m5?
13:48<Samu>Length of the 'type' bitfield at m5?
13:49<Samu>Length of the 'type' bitfield *insert comment about* m5?
13:50<Samu>i dunno how to describe it
13:50<@Alberth>'type' ?
13:50<Samu>type bitfield layout
13:51<Samu>the kind of structure
13:51<Samu>the graphic representation
13:52<@Alberth>Number of bits in m5 for the structure kind
13:52<@Alberth>First bit in m5 for the structure kind
13:53<@Alberth>'type' is very ambiguous, almost everything can be seen as 'type', so better avoid that word if possible
13:53<Samu>that was not my comment lol
13:53<Samu>but ok, i can change that
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13:57<Samu>7654 3210
13:57<Samu>nnnX nnnn
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13:58<chillcore>Alberth: organised chaos screenshots: Where do them coloured lines come from?
13:59<@Alberth>ie NUTS
13:59<Samu>Start of the 'type' bitfield is 4, Length of the 'type' bitfield 4.
13:59<chillcore>nice screenies btw.
13:59<chillcore>thanks for he info
13:59<@Alberth>great if you're a network builder
13:59<Samu>7654 <- here's a 4, type bitfield starts here
13:59<chillcore>ye I like me some chaos too but more condensed
14:00<Samu>lenght is 4, so it covers 4, 5, 6 and 7
14:00<Samu>7654 nnnn = Start of the 'type' bitfield is 4, Length of the 'type' bitfield 4.
14:01<Samu>7654 nnnn = Start of the 'type' bitfield is 4, Length of the 'type' bitfield covers 7654
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14:01<@Alberth>chillcore: I play with few industries often, and a lot of water. Maybe I should try some more industries again, one day
14:01<@Alberth>I also tried the original world generator again some time ago, gives a totally different build experience :)
14:02<@Alberth>Samu: what is the problem?
14:02<Samu>trying to understand the problem
14:02<V453000>XD finishing RAWR might take less time than trying to make NUTS into 32bpp, seeing the 72442 sprites of NUTS XD
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14:03<Samu>0000 - water, canal or river
14:03<chillcore>yes Alberth it does give a totally different terrain style
14:03<Samu>0001 - coast or riverbank
14:03<@Alberth>too many cargoes :p but very very nice, I agree now, having good cargo graphics is essential
14:03<Samu>0001 - can also mean lock
14:04<Samu>strange :(
14:04<Samu>1000 - ship depot
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14:06<Samu>ah, i see why it doesn't conflict with the lock
14:07<Samu>i am still confused, what the heck is happening, how can it share the same bit layout?
14:10<Samu>ah, got it, I'm stupid
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14:10<Samu>0001 - is for lock and only lock
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14:11<Samu>0000 - is for both water, canal, river, coast or riverbank
14:11<Samu>the coast flag is not at this location
14:12<Samu>0000 0001 - coast
14:12<Samu>0000 0000 - water, canal or river
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14:13<Samu>this means I have 3 bits to check out if they're compatible
14:14<Samu>0000 abc0 - might be able to use one of these to indicate canal on river, must check the other tiles
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14:17<chillcore>hmm my old newgrf folder was disabled too ... 3421 NewGRFs
14:18<chillcore>may have a few doubles ...I bet I can find more ...
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14:19<@Alberth>use a duplicate file finder?
14:19<chillcore>some have the same name but are not the same version
14:19<chillcore>some of the old ones that is
14:20<chillcore>but there is a ton of old OpenGFX verions and Firs
14:20<@Alberth>yeah, I mean a program that also checks contents of the file
14:20<chillcore>that may be agood idea yes
14:20<Samu>i hate industry tiles
14:21<Samu>they're always in the way
14:21<Samu>ruining compatibility
14:22<Samu>0x1FF ? woah, they even get 9 bits
14:23<chillcore>3.5 GB ... 2 data folders + 2 newgrf folders + content download
14:23<chillcore>27200 openttd versions ... I can play till the end of times :P
14:24<chillcore>yes we should get rid of industries samu
14:24<@Alberth>just play the newest one :)
14:24<chillcore>mail too maybe
14:25<@Alberth>reading just the last one, bit tricky in my experience :)
14:25<Samu>512 different tiles for industries, really, are there that many?
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14:28<@Alberth>64 different industries, with 10 tiles for each industries, 512 isn't even enough
14:29<@Alberth>8 for each, on average thus
14:30<@Alberth>256 tiles means you can have at most 4 tiles for an industry, on average, quite limiting
14:31<Samu>why not 32 different industries, limited to 8?
14:31<Samu>then again, nevermind, m5 is fully full
14:32<Samu>couldn't use it either way
14:36<chillcore>... speechless
14:36<chillcore>just ...
14:37<chillcore>am I
14:39<chillcore>I am not sure to laugh or cry about that last comment
14:41<@Alberth>do both? :)
14:45<chillcore>we should revert just to r1 and redo this pile of crap :/
14:45<chillcore>guide us oh great leader
14:48<chillcore>I found my very first game and it runs
14:49<chillcore>taking some screenies
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>my very first TT game got lost when i upgraded to world editor expansion, because it unconditionally overwrote the first savegame with the autosave
14:50<chillcore>I have disabled autosave long time ago
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>autosave is a very essential feature...
14:51<chillcore>with the idea that when I debug I still have my autosaves, the backup ones
14:52<chillcore>but yeah
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15:00<chillcore>ooh nice I still got oldr versions of it too ... could do a before and after
15:01<chillcore>if when I debug the gridlock
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and i played the demo a lot before, those dozen or so games also don't exist anymore
15:02<Samu>canal_and_river belongs to a subset of water_class_canal which belonds to a subset of water_tile_clear
15:03<Samu>is this a good link?
15:03<chillcore>my trains are waiting at the back of one way signals ... now I remember why I stopped playing this game and continued in my patchpack
15:03<chillcore>that means I should have a newer version somewhere
15:04<chillcore>yes Eddi|zuHause sad if you lose games you're fond of
15:04<chillcore>most of my testgames I do not even save
15:04<Samu>adding comments is boring
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, that was 20 years ago. i'm over it now :p
15:04<Samu>takes more time than coming up with ideas
15:05<Samu>enum CanalType {
15:06<Samu>give me a better name for this thing, so that I don't re-use the word "type"
15:07<Samu>CANAL_NOT_RIVER = 0,
15:07<Samu> CANAL_AND_RIVER = 1,
15:07<Samu>that's what goes in there
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15:17<@Alberth>blahblahtype is often fine, as you express it's the type of blahblah explicitly
15:18<Samu>CanalBrand, CanalBreed, CanalCategory, CanalCharacter, CanalDescription, CanalForm,
15:18<@Alberth>s/AND/ALSO/ ?
15:19<@Alberth>'NOT' and 'AND' don't look logical together
15:20<Samu>canal without a river under it
15:20<Samu>or canal with a river under it
15:20<@Alberth>WITH and WITHOUT would work
15:20<Samu>ok, ty
15:21<@Alberth>the names themselves are also documentation, they should express how they relate
15:21<Samu>canal not river also implies there's no river, but I see
15:22<@Alberth>hmm, busy bee gives me tricky assignments
15:22<@Alberth>canal not river was fine, canal and river was the problem
15:22<@Alberth>'not' is not a logical opposite of 'and'
15:23<@Alberth>unless you also have 'or'
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15:24<@Alberth>/me decides BB is just being stupid
15:29<Samu> CANAL_WITHOUT_RIVER = 0, ///< Without a river under it
15:29<Samu>the word CANAL might be misleading
15:30<Samu>I am refering to the WaterClass Canal
15:33<Samu>okay, I'm putting WCC_ instead of CANAL_
15:33*chillcore posted some aesthetics
15:34<chillcore>I did not say they are good ones. :P
15:34<Samu>WCC = WaterClass Canal
15:35<Samu>not Clear
15:35<Samu>oops sorry, there's no WaterClass Clear, that's a water type
15:36<Samu>Sea, Canal, River, Invalid
15:36<Samu>WCC, WCS, WCR, WCI ohoho
15:36<Samu>alright, WCC:
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15:39<@Alberth>nice compact chaos chillcore :)
15:39<chillcore>thank you.
15:40<@Alberth>what's with the bridges in the 2nd screenie?
15:40<chillcore>holding area
15:41<chillcore>for when traffic is heavy
15:41<@Alberth>I mean, why a bridge?
15:41<@Alberth>nothing under it, it seems
15:41<chillcore>no reason at all xD
15:41<chillcore>just looks better then plain track
15:42<@Alberth>haha :) indeed
15:42<chillcore>life of a hacker
15:42<chillcore>re-purpose stuffs
15:43<chillcore>to the left is anothe rholding area
15:43<chillcore>I think I had abut 100 trains passing there
15:44<chillcore>but not always all at once
15:44<chillcore>not timetabled that game
15:45<chillcore>the third screenshot is another game
15:45<chillcore>a bit more spaced out
15:45<chillcore>but nowadays I am more organised
15:45<chillcore>sort of
15:46<chillcore>I'll maybe post some more later of my patchpack game
15:46<chillcore>double posting and all that
15:46<chillcore>and I need to installthe correct opengfx still in my local copy
15:47<chillcore>glitches allover the place
15:48<chillcore>hmm I should continue a bit with my patch
15:49<chillcore>just them asserts still (which I do not think I need due tothe way rub*dium coded that part)
15:50<chillcore>it is fine to try and read past the end of the array
15:50<chillcore>that is why there is no comma there
15:51<chillcore>it catches the trailing 0 and goes from there
15:51<chillcore>talking about trailing zeros ... an array with 4 arrays in it has 5 traiilng zeroes?
15:52<chillcore>my book is not clear on that ...
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15:55<Samu>"Canals and navigations are human-made channels for water. In the vernacular both are referred to as 'canals'. The main difference between them is that a navigation parallels a river and shares its drainage basin, while a canal cuts across a drainage divide."
16:03<Samu>who's a english teacher here?
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16:07<Taede>what are you trying to name?
16:08<Taede>different enums?
16:08<Samu>a name for the enum
16:08<Samu> WCC_WITHOUT_RIVER = 0, ///< Without a river under it
16:09<Samu> WCC_WITH_RIVER = 1, ///< With a river under it
16:10<Taede>does it contain just those 2?
16:10<Samu>WCC is short for WaterClass Canal
16:10<Taede>CanalBase ?
16:11<Samu>ok, ty, why didn't I think of that
16:11<Samu>seemed so simple, and right to the point
16:11<Taede>because you've been thinking about it too long
16:12<Eddi|zuHause> [german]
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17:22<Samu> * @pre IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsTileType(t, MP_STATION) || IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) || IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT)
17:22<Samu>what is @ pre?
17:23<Sylf>is that inside a comment?
17:23<Sylf>sounds like a precondition
17:24<Samu>yes, in a comment
17:24<Samu>how many @pre's would I need for this?
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17:30<chillcore>one for each condition that must be true
17:31<chillcore>and they must not be inside a function or they do not end up in the "documentation of source" zip
17:44<Samu>ok, is this good englisho? * Set the base of the canal to indicate there is a river under a tile.
17:44<Samu>static inline void SetCanalOnRiver(TileIndex t)
17:45<Samu> assert(GetWaterClass(t) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL);
17:45<Samu> SB(_me[t].m6, 0, WBL_RIVER_FLAG, WCC_WITH_RIVER);
17:47<Samu>whatever, i'll ask for help later
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18:03<Samu>here's the difference:
18:03<Samu>not finished yet, but
18:04<Samu>need some advice about those comments
18:06<Samu>let me paste as a diff
18:06<chillcore>it is good enough to read
18:07<Samu>highlighted there ->
18:09<Samu>static inline bool IsCanalOnRiver(TileIndex t)
18:09<Samu>lol this is to be deleted
18:10<Samu>it's simply wrong
18:12<Samu>deleted ->
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18:22<FLHerne>planetmaker: Looks like the latest version of NML on pypi (hence via pip) is still 0.2.4
18:22<FLHerne>Is this intentional, or was this just forgotten at some point?
18:24<frosch123>do you know who put it there in the first place?
18:25<frosch123>lol 143 download of nml via pypi?
18:25<frosch123>in the last week
18:26<frosch123>ah, am*ler is package owner
18:27<frosch123>but well, iirc installation of nml is broken anyway
18:31<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> ah, am*ler is package owner <-- that probably means nobody touched it in years
18:31<frosch123>exactly, i wasn't even aware that it is there
18:32<frosch123>though funnily the nml tutorial instructs to install nml via pip :p
18:32<frosch123>completely out of date
18:32<frosch123>but still 143 downloads per week
18:32<frosch123>either the statistics is bonkers, or it's all crawlers :p
18:33<Sylf>"I'm gonna install everything available through pip, I don't care what they are"
18:34<@Terkhen>good night
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18:37<FLHerne>Sylf: Well, the semi-official wiki docs do say to do that
18:38<Sylf>Yeah, I'm aware of the page, which I ignore myself as far as how to install NML :)
18:39<Sylf>I was thinking more about how that package is getting 100+ downloads per week
18:40<FLHerne>Maybe I should make an AUR package for it instead
18:40<frosch123>yeah, please fix nml packaging :)
18:41<FLHerne>Um, readme for 0.4.0 seems to be confused too
18:42<FLHerne>Wiki: "With NML 0.4 we change some of its foundations, it now is written in python3 and requires python 3.2 or newer."
18:42<FLHerne>Readme: "Minimal version is 2.6. Python 3 is not yet supported."
18:42<frosch123>hehe, wiki is correct here :)
18:42<frosch123> <- just attach all your fixes to that task :)
18:46<FLHerne>Oh, and buildout script want PIL 1.1.7, which lacks python3 support
18:47<frosch123>delete it?
18:47<frosch123>we use pillow instead of pil
18:47<frosch123>i guess we can delete that buildout thingie
18:48<FLHerne>Oh, looks like the readme thing is fixed in the latest hg version
18:52<Samu>my own assertions complaining
18:52<Samu>hah, interesting
18:53<Samu>at least they're right
18:53<Samu>i must set the flag AFTER the structure have been placed on a canal
18:54<Samu>not before
18:54<Samu>not that it would make a difference though
18:54<Samu>but whatever
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19:07<Samu>Owner o_lower = GetTileOwner(tile - delta); if (o_lower != OWNER_NONE) { // Skip if canal owner is none
19:07<Samu>isn't it possible to transform this into a single line?
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19:08<Samu>can i do this? if (GetTileOwner(tile - delta) != OWNER_NONE) {
19:08<Samu>i don't need o_lower for anything else
19:08<Samu>only for this
19:08<FLHerne>Aargh, NML installation is about as broken as it gets :-(
19:09<frosch123>FLHerne: check the task above, and check whether the diff from there works :)
19:11<FLHerne>frosch123: It doesn't, at least against 0.4
19:12<FLHerne> tries to import nml.version_info, which doesn't exist
19:15<FLHerne>Oh, am I doing this wrong?
19:15<frosch123>the 0.4.0 bundle is known to be broken
19:15<FLHerne>No, or at least not in the way I suspected I was
19:16<FLHerne>Building current hg version again now
19:19<FLHerne>Ok, that seems to work
19:19<FLHerne>Albeit with non-fatal warning:
19:19<FLHerne> /usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/setuptools/ UserWarning: The version specified ('0.4.0.r5564M:b4b82c1379a2') is an invalid version, this may not work as expected with newer versions of setuptools, pip, and PyPI. Please see PEP 440 for more details.
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19:38<Samu>i have a question
19:38<Samu>how to i grab randombits?
19:38<Samu>then restore it later
19:38<Samu>MakeRiver(tile, Random());
19:39<Samu>it creates some Random thing, most noticeable on coastal river tiles
19:39<supermop>man i have no idea
19:39<Samu>rocks appear in different forms
19:40<Samu>GetRandomBits or so?
19:40<Samu>let me find
19:41<Samu>ok, i got this static inline byte GetWaterTileRandomBits(TileIndex t)
19:41<Samu>so when I am to remake the river how do I put back the retrieved value?
19:42<Samu>MakeRiver(tile, ???)
19:43<Samu>byte ?
19:45<Samu>gonna try byte maintain_same_random_bits = GetWaterTileRandomBits(TileIndex t); MakeRiver(tile, maintain_same_random_bits);
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19:49<Samu>what's the difference between uint32 and byte?
19:53<Sylf>byte is 8bit, uint32 is 32bit?
19:54<Samu>i have no idea
19:54<Samu>static inline byte GetWaterTileRandomBits(TileIndex t)
19:55<Samu>static inline void MakeRiver(TileIndex t, uint8 random_bits)
19:55<Samu>uint8 or uint32 or byte? I am confused
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes (usually)
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>in C++ you never know...
19:57<Samu>static inline uint32 Random()
19:57<Samu>so which one is the better correct?
19:59<Samu>will MakeRiver accept them all?
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20:02<Samu>well, uh i'll test them all and brb with results
20:04<Samu>byte is accepted
20:05<Samu>the rocks look the same
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20:10<Samu>uint8 is accepted, the rocks look the same
20:11<Samu>uint32 is accepted, the rocks look the same
20:12<Samu>I'm confused, I don't get the point
20:17<Sylf>uint8 only takes up 1 byte of memory, but can only represent numbers 0 through 255.
20:17<Sylf>uint32 takes up 4 bytes of memory, but can represent numbers up to 2^32-1
20:17<Sylf>so use the size of type needed for the job
20:34<Samu>it takes 8 bits
20:35<Samu>how's a river created?
20:35<Samu>the first born river tile?
20:36<Samu>chillcore: u know about terrain generating
20:36<Samu>tell me, what is happening when a rvier is creater
20:36<Samu>does it use MakeRiver?
20:37<chillcore>it looks for a nice spot to make a spring
20:37<chillcore>based on various conditins
20:38<chillcore>then it finds a path and if it is content then that patch is converted in river
20:38<Samu>erm, what's inside MakeRiver?
20:38<chillcore>if not it looks for another spot to put a spring based on those same conditions
20:38<Samu>MakeRiver(tile, Random())?
20:38<chillcore>rince repeat
20:39<Samu>lakes are also rivers, isn't it?
20:39<Samu>I am wondering about the Random() part
20:39<chillcore>I don't kow what is inside random ... rivers is bitmagic ...
20:40<chillcore>me no go there
20:40<chillcore>download a docuentation of source zip
20:40<Samu>ok, but it is there? the "Random()"?, like MakeRiver(tile, Random())
20:41<Samu>because Random() is uint32
20:41<Eddi|zuHause>the river generator is Rubidium's crime
20:41<chillcore>it takes about as much effort for me to look it up samu as it does for you
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20:42<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: I know what and how it does but not the details
20:42<chillcore>which is what samu ask about
20:42<Samu>it seems to be passing around the information 3 times
20:42<Samu>or translating it to 3 different languages
20:43<Samu>while it could be using just 1
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>i'm quite enjoying the ignore list. this is much healthier for me if i only see one half of the conversation
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20:43<Samu>static inline byte GetWaterTileRandomBits(TileIndex t) <--- byte
20:44<Samu>static inline void MakeRiver(TileIndex t, uint8 random_bits) <--- uint8
20:44<Samu>static inline uint32 Random() <--- uint32
20:44<chillcore>first link samu
20:45<chillcore>everything you never wanted to know
20:45<chillcore>the rest is undocumented
20:45<chillcore>for now
20:46<chillcore>lake is not river ... I guess
20:46<chillcore>not sure
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20:46<Samu>they're using waterclass river though
20:46<chillcore>the they are rivers samu?
20:47<Samu>fat rivers
20:47<chillcore>fat rivers are rivers too
20:47<chillcore>*insert fat joke here*
20:48<chillcore>what about them rocks you were talking about?
20:48<chillcore>which rocks?
20:48<Samu>it's the aspect of the river at the borders
20:48<chillcore>ah ok
20:48<Samu>or within itself
20:48<Samu>it is randomized
20:49<chillcore>yes to make things less boring they are randomised
20:49<Samu>it's most noticeable at river coasts
20:49<Samu>they have some rocky things
20:49<chillcore>hmm ... rocky things ..
20:50<Samu>when i demolish them rivers and restore them back with my permanent river patch, they were looking slightly different
20:50<Samu>turns out it's the Random() value that is re-randomized
20:51<Samu>I am now trying to keep the exact value it had before
20:51<chillcore>them rocky things is rocky land
20:52-!-Warrigal [~tswett@] has joined #openttd
20:52<Samu>no, it's on the river itself
20:52<chillcore>you know your wayto the querytool?
20:52<Samu>on cascades
20:52<chillcore>hey Warrigal
20:53<Warrigal>I'm running OpenTTD 1.4.4, and I started a game in the year 2000.
20:53<Warrigal>Only a few different engines were available; I think all of them were from something like 1980 or earlier.
20:53<Warrigal>Now as time has passed, the vehicles available have been expiring and new ones haven't been showing up.
20:54<chillcore>samu: querry the rocky things tile and say what it sais please
20:55<chillcore>Warrigal: "enable vehicles never expire" then run "reset_engines" in console
20:55<Samu>river on a slope is still a river
20:55<Samu>you might need to use my patch, it's not easy to spot the difference
20:56<Samu>my permanent canal on river patch
20:56<Samu>I haven't fixed it yet
20:56<Samu>but it's something that I wanna fix
20:56<Samu>so hurry up
20:56<Warrigal>chillcore: that'll do it. Thanks!
20:56<chillcore>range of new vehicles appearing is about 1950 -2050 but this may vary depending on NewGRF used
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20:57<chillcore>you're welcome
20:58<Samu>k, direct link
20:58<chillcore>brb samu
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20:59<Eddi|zuHause>wow, that was almost an hour :p
20:59<chillcore>I was like hungry
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>you need to go offline to get food?
21:00<chillcore>client started jumping and did not yet look at that other one properly
21:00<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: your clock is off
21:01<Samu>[00:59] <chillcore> I was like hungry
21:01<Samu>[02:00] <chillcore> hehe
21:01<Samu>I see
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>hm. i used to have ntp enabled
21:01<chillcore>haha I will be out of sync again 6 months
21:02<chillcore>can't be arsed to change clocks
21:02<frosch123>7 months
21:02<Eddi|zuHause> Active: active (running) since Mon 2014-12-22 16:37:18 CET; 3 months 5 days ago
21:02<chillcore>hmm ... then I should leave it at summer time ... then I am out of sync less time of the year
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so how can my time be off?
21:08<frosch123>no idea, my ntpq -p is fine
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of timing, this game soundtrack bothers me... it's heavy on 7/4
21:09<chillcore>samu: direct link to what?
21:09<chillcore>how about a normal link
21:09<chillcore>then peeps can read without downloading
21:09<chillcore>thank you
21:10<Samu>Permanent Rivers with Canal on Rivers patch
21:10<chillcore>that one was done alreaydy
21:10<Samu>download, patch, start new game, then demolish rivers on slopes
21:10<Samu>yes, it's not fixed, so you can see these rocks being re-randomized
21:11<chillcore>yes samu randomised rocks are randomised
21:12<Samu>i found the lake function MakeRiver(lakeCenter, Random());
21:12<Samu>so it also uses Random()
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>7/4 is even more aggrivating than 5/4 (e.g. some of the uruk-hai battle themes in the LotR soundtrack)
21:13<Samu>i really must suck at explaining things
21:13<chillcore>yes samu ... have you looked at random() at all?
21:13<Samu>yes, it's uint32
21:14<Samu>but makeriver accepts uint8 only
21:14<Samu>and retrieving the randombits, is byte
21:14<+glx>it magically gets the 8 lower bits
21:14<+glx>that's all
21:14<Samu>so what do I do if I want to preserve the same aspect
21:15<chillcore>why would you want to do that samu ... it is called random for a reason
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>"... but my vision"
21:15<Samu>to make them behave like they're "permanent"
21:15<Samu>permanent, unchanged, unaltered
21:16<Samu>they are re-built but must look the same as well
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21:16<chillcore>it is still random ... permanent, unchanged, unaltered random
21:17<chillcore>an ddo you think people will notice that samu if you restore that?
21:17<Samu>I noticed, so other ppl will notice
21:17<chillcore>you notice because you are testing
21:18<chillcore>while plaing that is a minor detail
21:18<chillcore>noone will notice at all
21:18<Samu>i shall make a video of it
21:18<chillcore>I can promise you that
21:18<Samu>it's very easy to spot on with my patch
21:18<chillcore>I believe you samu
21:18<Samu>my "not yet fixed" patch that is
21:19<chillcore>let me show you somethng peeps did not notice ...
21:19<chillcore>1 sec
21:19<Samu>it's very hard to tell the difference without the patch, mind you, so that's why no one noticed
21:20<Samu>ppl could only check for this during scenario editor, it's the only way ppl could re-build rivers
21:22<chillcore>now you tell me if peeps will notce a rock while playing
21:22<chillcore>that canal may have been there for 100 game years
21:22<chillcore>first they eed to remember to begin with
21:24<Samu>ottd on acid
21:24<Samu>I see lol
21:25<chillcore>that code was out in the wild for a while
21:25<chillcore>before I even noticed myself
21:25<chillcore>so a rock ...
21:26<chillcore>that is generated at random
21:26<Samu>I'll show ya,
21:26<chillcore>spend your time on something more interesting maybe?
21:27<Samu>erm, if my patch goes through, this will be quite noticeable
21:27<Samu>please look at the stream
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: to be fair, your userbase was probably a bit more resistant to bugs than the average :)
21:28<chillcore>then I must unblock the whole thing and reboot ...
21:29<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: I understand that ... as it is now the river is destroyed
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>i meant the forum link
21:29<chillcore>yes I undrstood that Eddi|zuHause
21:30<chillcore>and I agree
21:30<chillcore>but samu is working on retsoring rivers which is not even a thing in trunk
21:30<chillcore>it goes boom
21:30<chillcore>gone forever
21:30<chillcore>rocks or no rocks
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes. so on renaturing the river, do you think someone goes there and puts every individual rock where they were a hundred years ago?
21:31<chillcore>exactly my point
21:33-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>as for the bug-resistance, i have seen people go like "it only desyncs every half hour. i can accept that in a patchpack"
21:35<chillcore>I would not :P
21:35<Samu>no viewers :(
21:35<Eddi|zuHause>and i told them they should not...
21:35<chillcore>not while playing
21:35<chillcore>take two screenshots samu ... before and after
21:35<chillcore>if you must
21:36<Eddi|zuHause>but that attitude lowers the chance of you receiving error reports, even if they notice the error
21:36<chillcore>I deal with crashes while coding Eddi|zuHause... while playing the occasional one
21:36<chillcore>but I had me a patchpack game with DJNekkid one day and we stpped after 30 mins
21:37<chillcore>stupid ISP of mine was throttling me
21:37<chillcore>so he was waiting for me to relaod game
21:37<chillcore>5 times and done
21:37<chillcore>sorry no can do
21:37<chillcore>both of us
21:38<chillcore>I could go troll some servers now perhaps
21:38-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:38<chillcore>by now I mean with this ISP
21:38<chillcore>and trolling in a good way
21:40<chillcore>besides samu want to have a custom make river function now
21:40<chillcore>no random rocks
21:40<Samu>no i don't
21:40<chillcore>sure he can but no reading books?
21:40<chillcore>yes samu you do you want torestore the rocks so makeriver without random
21:41<Samu>no, this is only for when demolishing a river
21:41-!-flipFLOPS [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:41<chillcore>and he does not want to to read books ... the diff between bool, byte, int, int32
21:41<chillcore>all has to be explained
21:41<chillcore>sorry samu
21:42<Samu>before ->
21:42<Samu>after ->
21:43<Samu>the mouse cursos is not in the screenshot, but imagine that the cursos is a bombing one
21:43<chillcore>yes that is what i was talking about samu ... random rock on river slopes
21:44<chillcore>if you bomb the river you can expect to move some rocks
21:44<chillcore>even if it is restored
21:44<chillcore>what is so bad about that?
21:44<Samu>they're permanent
21:44<Samu>damn it
21:44<chillcore>the rivers are permanent yes
21:45<chillcore>your patch isnot called permanent rocks
21:45<chillcore>that is another patch
21:45<chillcore>you keep doing 7 things in one patch
21:45<chillcore>if you want trunk
21:45<chillcore>and I know yuo do
21:45<chillcore>1 thing
21:45<Samu>it's like trying to demolish a naked bare tile
21:45<chillcore>1 patch
21:46<Samu>it always looks the same and costs 0
21:46<Samu>that's what I'm doign here
21:46<chillcore>destroying rivers costs 10.000
21:46<chillcore>not 0
21:46<chillcore>try and convince a dev
21:46<chillcore>I have no powers
21:46<chillcore>thank god
21:47<Samu>you can demolish bare land tiles, try it
21:47<Samu>they're naked, and yet you can still keep on demolishing them
21:47<chillcore>samu ... I has been playing and messing with code since 2007
21:47<Samu>this patch is making rivers behave like them
21:47<chillcore>joined forums in 2008
21:47<chillcore>look at my post history if you must
21:48<chillcore>I do not need to test everything again
21:48<chillcore>and after all that I still do not know 50%
21:49<Samu>destroying rivers costs 0 on this patch, because they're purrmanent :(
21:50<Samu>they're not permanent on the scenario editor or if you enable cheat
21:50<chillcore>don't be surprised if the devs do not apply that 0 cost part
21:50<chillcore>you can bomb sea
21:50<chillcore>it is restored
21:50<Samu>with cheat enabled, it costs 10k
21:50<chillcore>it costs dineros
21:50<Samu>if you're gaming
21:51<chillcore>try asking if they will make that cost 0
21:51<chillcore>I give up samu
21:51<Samu>ah, the price table
21:51<Samu>I did not change that
21:51<Samu>it's still 10000
21:51<chillcore>too much argueing
21:51<Samu>i have not edit that part
21:52<Samu>demolishing sea costs 10k
21:52<chillcore>fine samu
21:52<Samu>demolishing river costs 10k, but only if you have the magic bulldozer enabled
21:52<Samu>else, it's permanent, and costs 0
21:52<chillcore>the last time I agreed with everything you said things ended very well
21:53<chillcore>so I agree
21:53<chillcore>go for it
21:53<chillcore>have a blast
21:53<Eddi|zuHause>making a river look natural is much like making a woman look natural. so much money and makeup go into it...
21:54<Samu>speaking of costs
21:54<Samu>Money base_cost = IsCanal(tile) ? _price[PR_CLEAR_CANAL] : _price[PR_CLEAR_WATER];
21:54<Samu>if (IsRiver(tile) && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL && !_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value) base_cost = 0;
21:54<Samu>what I just said, but in code language lol
21:57<Samu>i got to ask though
21:57<Samu>base_cost = 0;
21:57<Samu>is this the correct way to tell that it is not going to cost anything?
21:58<chillcore>perhaps that is the way to know
21:58<chillcore>the only way to know for sure is compiling and teting
21:58<Samu>well, it works
21:59<Samu>but, I dunno if it's technically the correct way to assing the value like that
21:59<chillcore>if it works and you know... why do you ask?
21:59<Samu>because 0 could mean many things apparently
22:00<chillcore>much more quiet now :/
22:01<chillcore>I hate using these lists but ...
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22:11<Samu>i give up
22:11<Samu>it works
22:11<Samu>you'll take care of the coding style then
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22:23<chillcore>lol logs ... I am getting a salary ... yay
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 29 00:00:11 2015