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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-03-30

---Logopened Mon Mar 30 00:00:13 2015
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00:36<chillcore>good morning interwebz
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00:44<NGC3982>Morning.
00:44<chillcore>o/
00:44<NGC3982>Man, Sweden needs new trains.
00:45<NGC3982>I'm on the X2 (the fastest train we have) from Vaxjo to Stockholm
00:45<NGC3982>It's not what we would call great distances, but it still takes 3h+
00:47<NGC3982>Someone with maglev knowledge should enter government.
00:48<chillcore>hmm you do not have IC and L trains?
00:48<NGC3982>IC/L?
00:49<chillcore>InterCity and Local ... the local stops everywhere, the IL only major cities
00:49<NGC3982>Ah, surure
00:49<chillcore>IC*
00:49<NGC3982>Sure*
00:49<NGC3982>But they never exceed 160km/h
00:49<chillcore>ah
00:50<NGC3982>The X2 does 200km/h with leaning engines and stuff. They work, but they are so old now.
00:51<NGC3982>Although, i can't complain this time. The interiour of the X2 is quite nice, and today there is not a lot of people traveling.
00:51<chillcore>bribe someone to extend the eurostar your way ... :P
00:52<NGC3982>Free 4G wifi and free coffee should at least make me survive the three hours.
00:52<NGC3982>Hehe
00:52<NGC3982>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_2000
00:52<chillcore>ye
00:54<chillcore>then you need new sleepers
00:54<chillcore>?
00:54<NGC3982>Yes, we do.
00:54<NGC3982>We need an entire new railway.
00:55<NGC3982>The current suffers greatly from over-using the Stambana main line trough Sweden
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00:58<NGC3982>We seem to suffer some kind of political cul-de-sac when it comes to railway improvement. No polititians want to try and solve it, since solving it would require using massive amounts of recourses the first political period (four years), making them subject for being voted off for wasting money the next.
00:59<NGC3982>Thus, everyone (yes, literaly every Swede alive) wants to improve the railway, but we are to dumb to realize how much time and money it takes.
01:01<chillcore>hmm yeah
01:01<supermop>same in every country
01:01<chillcore>bt here they doa nd go oops .. seems like this is going to take three times as long as planned
01:02<chillcore>while costing triple too :P
01:03<chillcore>or they build a connection to germany and the they can not connect some piece because .."not in my backyard you're not!"
01:03<chillcore>betuwelijn
01:03<chillcore>don't even know if that is open yet
01:04<chillcore>the rail is there
01:04<chillcore>just that it passes near some rich dutchies
01:05<chillcore>who new very well the line was there before they bougt their house
01:05<chillcore>knew*
01:05<chillcore>but yeah not used so ...
01:05<chillcore>anyhoo politics
01:07<NGC3982>:p
01:09<chillcore>but a fast line to sweden would be great I guess
01:09<chillcore>then we can send you these nice Volvos we build here :evil_grin:
01:10<chillcore>+twisted
01:11<chillcore>cool dudes these swedes ...
01:12<chillcore>the Volvo bosses I mean
01:12<chillcore>I once made an error in quality control
01:12<chillcore>so the guy and comes find me
01:13<chillcore>could you please check that corner more carefully, because that is one of the places where tears might be
01:14<chillcore>so I go: "Ok, no prob. why? did I miss something?"
01:15<NGC3982>:o
01:15<NGC3982>Belgium? No?
01:15<chillcore>he sais: ye we got a car there we need to scrap, wanna see?
01:15<chillcore>so he took me there and showed me
01:15<chillcore>yes belgium
01:15<NGC3982>Nice.
01:16<chillcore>never raised his voice ...
01:16<NGC3982>Well, you guys do a good job. The Volvo is still the most reliable of Swedish cars.
01:16<NGC3982>Hehe, nice
01:16<NGC3982>Was he Belgian?
01:16<chillcore>no swede ... one of the big shots
01:16<NGC3982>Ah, neat.
01:16<NGC3982>Well, the office culture is not what you would call aggressive. :p
01:16<chillcore>true
01:17<chillcore>these guys sit while working
01:17<chillcore>floors raise and lower as needed
01:17<chillcore>no RSI
01:17<NGC3982>Oh, cool
01:17<chillcore>I felt kinda embarresed about it "damn that could have been dangerous for someone""
01:17<NGC3982>What do you do, by the way? Assembly or only quality control?
01:18*NGC3982 just traded his V50 for a new Kia Cee'd
01:18<chillcore>qulity control ... side panels
01:18<NGC3982>Oh, allright.
01:18<chillcore>but for an external firm sadly enough
01:19<NGC3982>External side panels?
01:19<chillcore>yes
01:19<chillcore>checking for cracks and tears ... before they go on the line
01:19*NGC3982 has some emotional issues with a specific internal piece of plastic in the Volvo V50.
01:20<chillcore>not me I swear
01:20<chillcore>xD
01:20<NGC3982>.D
01:20<chillcore>but ye the thing I missed ... these panels are stacked by the dozen
01:20<NGC3982>Everything in my 2006 V50 is great. The interior is tight and non-flimsy. Though, the internal door handle has this plastic inside that's mounted way, way to loosely
01:20<chillcore>it was nr 7 or so and ont the far side
01:21<chillcore>still no excuse
01:21<NGC3982>So if i grab the door to open from the inside, i can take the part with me :p
01:21<chillcore>ouch
01:21<NGC3982>chillcore: It happends.
01:21<chillcore>that is what he said too
01:21<chillcore>it did not happen again
01:22<NGC3982>Sorry to say, there is good reason for me changing from Volvo to Kia
01:22<chillcore>only because he showed me properly and pointed out some more "weak" points
01:22<NGC3982>Although i am a vivid Volvo lover.
01:23<chillcore>yes they are nice cars
01:24<NGC3982>The 2015 Kia Cee'd with the biggest package (winter and summer alloy wheels with pressure sensors, navigation, android compatible lcd, turning wheel heater, led ramp, seat heating+cooling, phone and voice control) costs as much as a 2009 Volvo with the Kinetic package.
01:24<NGC3982>It's like 10k euro between both of them as new cars
01:25<chillcore>huhu
01:25<NGC3982>The Volvo is great, surely
01:25<NGC3982>But it's hard to motivate the difference.
01:25<NGC3982>At least for me, driving >40-50k kilometers per year.
01:26<chillcore>true
01:26<chillcore>I'm not sure which car I ever owned I liked best ...
01:26<chillcore>the Tigra was nice
01:26<chillcore>but so was the renault express
01:27<chillcore>and the fiat cinquecento was a lot of fun
01:28<chillcore>then i also drove BMW 735il an old model Range Rover but those were not mine
01:28<chillcore>that BMW was like a go-cart ... special supension
01:28<NGC3982>Indeed
01:29<NGC3982>A 735 and Range Rover is a bit higher level car than the Express. :p
01:29<NGC3982>I used to own a 750 from 1988
01:29<NGC3982>V12
01:29<chillcore>ye they belonged to my boss
01:30<NGC3982>It was a horrible thing to buy as a young kid with no money.
01:30<chillcore>I can imagine
01:30<NGC3982>Since a big ol' BMW requires lot's of it.
01:30<chillcore>someday I'll get me a Chrysler Viper ...
01:30<chillcore>haha ... after winning the lottery
01:31<chillcore>for myself I prefer things I can maintain myself
01:31<chillcore>which becomes harder and harder to find
01:31<NGC3982>You are the first person ever not to use the "Dodge Viper"
01:31<NGC3982>:D
01:32<chillcore>I like Chrysler better ... fell in love with it when i was a kid
01:32<NGC3982>My dream car is impossible to find in it's original
01:32<NGC3982>The Le Mans 1952 Jaguar C-type
01:32<NGC3982>I'm not aware of any original in existance
01:32<chillcore>nice
01:33<NGC3982>A Lancia Stratos would also work
01:33<NGC3982>Thanx santa
01:33<chillcore>hihi
01:35<chillcore>still If you have nothing to transport ... bikes for the win
01:35<chillcore>cross that is
01:36<chillcore>high torque
01:36<chillcore>at low rpm
01:37<chillcore>and speed ... still doing 170 when wanted ...
01:39<chillcore>it goes faster but meh
01:39<chillcore>and 110 is much more enjoyable
01:40<chillcore>but in cities it is great
01:40<chillcore>everytime I got one of them racers next to me ... I go VROOOOM 1 time
01:40<chillcore>then they look at me like ... yeah right
01:41<chillcore>on green I am gone without noice while thye wait for RPM to kick in
01:41<chillcore>haha
01:41<chillcore>not racing though
01:41<chillcore>just pulling up to 50
01:42<chillcore>haha
01:42<chillcore>ofcourse they have to get past me but I do not follow
01:42<chillcore>just fun ... much of it
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02:00<chillcore>NGC3982: just to be clear I am not working for Volvo right now, don't want you to be confused later on ;)
02:08<chillcore>Boom ... another link to tt-forums from within steam locomotion forums
02:08<chillcore>so sad for CS that Atari keeps abusing his name
02:09<chillcore>and rep
02:09<chillcore>he really should do a pc of Transport Tycoon
02:10<chillcore>Atari is never going to fix theses issues
02:10<chillcore>if they even can
02:10<chillcore>I don't see him steppng in and do it for them
02:10<chillcore>its not even gameplay issues
02:11<chillcore>I don't get it ... why is steam allowing all this BS on their store
02:11<chillcore>digging their own grave ...
02:11<chillcore>one game at a time
02:15<chillcore>but yeah basically ... "to fix your issues and for help ... go to tt-forums"
02:15<chillcore>over and over :P
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02:28<Dicky>helo!
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02:29<chillcore>o/
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02:55<supermop>hmm how tall are platforms?
02:55<supermop>180 cm?
02:55<supermop>140?
02:56<supermop>i feel like the floor of a train is shorter than my head but not by much
03:03<V453000>666
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03:06<chillcore>760mm in europe above the top of rail
03:06<chillcore>s above/from
03:08<chillcore>another piece of random information I can pull out of my hat ... for them ackward silent moments :P
03:08<chillcore>"Did you know ...?"
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03:17<supermop>760mm? thats like half as high as i woould have thought
03:17<supermop>i guess the rail itself is 100-200mm
03:18<supermop>and then the ballast?
03:18<chillcore>you're not standing on the rail that is why it seems higher ;)
03:18<supermop>comparing to when i've boarded trains from no platform
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03:19<supermop>at rural american stations they put a little step stool outside the door, then their are stairs inside the door
03:19<chillcore>americ my vae different standards yes
03:19<chillcore>damned ... spelling*
03:20<supermop>sometimes the rail is in a paved tramway so you stand flush with railhead, othertimes you are below the rail
03:20<chillcore>yeah
03:21<chillcore>the netherlands had a different height before so ... international trains had that prob too
03:21<supermop>but even a tram wheel is 600mm, i would have assumed a train wheel was 800mm, plus room for suspensiin
03:22<chillcore>you don't care for that
03:22<supermop>hmm
03:22<chillcore>you've got the rail and the platform and the floor of the train
03:22<supermop>bored so i'm bodelling stations
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03:23<supermop>maybe make an ogfx+ station set....
03:23<supermop>if someone else wants to code. i never want to code stations again
03:24<chillcore>there should be templates
03:24<chillcore>just add in the croeect sprite names
03:24<chillcore>correct*
03:25<chillcore>as long as you do not exceed the template height it should be fine
03:25<supermop>hmm
03:26<chillcore>leaving some blue at the top is fine
03:26<chillcore>it will be transparent anyways
03:27<chillcore>that is how DJ did his coding
03:28<chillcore>you've got a sprites template and offsets you re-use all the time
03:28<chillcore>then you can still add minor differences
03:28<chillcore>eg. not allowed in towncenter
03:29<chillcore>stuffs like that
03:29<chillcore>but just to get them in game you do the hard part once
03:29<chillcore>or not as it is available to re-use
03:30<chillcore>maybe not yet in NML though
03:36<chillcore>Also see Voyager one his trainsies ...
03:37<chillcore>all the same template
03:37<chillcore>makes coders life easy ;)
03:37<supermop>nml doesn't do stations though
03:37<chillcore>true
03:38<chillcore>not sure who will do that eventually nor what is stopping him/her/them
03:38<supermop>anyway ogfx+ style should be easy - although maybe it should be in pixel art
03:38<chillcore>time I guess
03:39<supermop>i figure just do like the station hall style, available in each of the three styles,
03:39<supermop>then the regular platform with and without the building,
03:40<supermop>buffers for both the outdoor and indoor platforms
03:40<chillcore>sounds cool
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03:46<supermop>maybe add a couple extra buildings
03:47<chillcore>sure why not
03:47<chillcore>objects ...
03:47<chillcore>;)
03:48<chillcore>not sure if you can have station tiles without rails
03:48<chillcore>I mean codewise
03:48<chillcore>graphically anything is possible ... eg fake depots
03:51<chillcore>and Vast ... there is a station version and an object version
04:04<supermop>reading on wikipedia i seed standard platform heights of 500, 760, 900, 1000, 1100, and 1300
04:05<supermop>i think i'll just draw 300 and 1000
04:05<supermop>*see
04:05<supermop>no train sets will match anyway
04:05<@planetmaker>moin
04:05<supermop>yo planetmaker
04:06<chillcore>supermop: if I were you I'd check ingame (no newgrf) and use that
04:06<chillcore>but I am not you so ;)
04:06<chillcore>moin
04:06<supermop>ogfx platforms are 3-4 pix tall
04:06<supermop>what that means is open to interpretation
04:06<chillcore>huhu id you use that it will looknicer ingame if sets are mixed
04:07<chillcore>which I do all the time
04:07<chillcore>and about NML stations ... the man to ask just walked in
04:07<chillcore>I think
04:08<supermop>well "how many meters are those 3 px" is a tricky question
04:08<chillcore>I don't know but a tle is 8 pixels high
04:08<chillcore>s tile/level
04:08<chillcore>if you make stations higher they may poke through bridges
04:09<supermop>if you say, it's roughly half a heightlevel, that could be 1.3-4m at certain scales, different at others
04:09<chillcore>if your set allows overbuilding with bridges
04:09<chillcore>but you can set levels above station
04:09<supermop>default stations do not
04:09<chillcore>so 8 * x
04:09<supermop>true, i'd likely set different levels for different platforms
04:09<@planetmaker>supermop, it's tricky to infer any real-life scale - especially as those don't matter as it's inconsistent
04:10<@planetmaker>as such, use a scale which fits the graphics - not vice versa
04:10<supermop>basic platforms maybe 1-2 heightlevels above
04:10<V453000>hello pm :)
04:10<supermop>if the platform has a roof obviously you'd want bridges to be taller
04:10<chillcore>supermop even 5 above ... it is up to the coder to set that value
04:11<V453000>bridges are ultra not-tall ... if you relied on that you would end with very obscure values
04:11<V453000>just make it look nice
04:12<chillcore>but we are talking two issues now ... not sure what 3 pixel high platforms translates too in your prog
04:12<chillcore>s too/to
04:12<supermop>thats the thing - it could be anything
04:13<chillcore>hehe
04:13<V453000>yes, so dont worry about it. :D
04:13<supermop>and as the original sprites were drawn for 1x zoom, there is more finesse at 4x zoom
04:14<supermop>the originals look like something between 3 and 4
04:14<supermop>at 4x zoom it could be 12 px, or 16 px, or in between
04:14<V453000>._.
04:14<V453000>this is what I call overengineering :P
04:15<supermop>nah, taking advantage of the extra pixels to created a better proportioned sprite
04:16<V453000>the bigger question is whether "better proportions" actually look nicer in the game
04:16<supermop>so now im massing out squares that are 6000, 8000, and 12000mm per side, with 'platforms' of several sizes on each, then decide which combination looks best
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04:17<supermop>the loading gauge on default sprites seems to be the center third of the tile, so leave that open and compare what looks good
04:18<V453000>I would just try one, see if I am happy with it, and go with it y/n ... trying all options of everything sounds like slowdowns :P
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04:19<supermop>nah ive already massed out all the options
04:19<V453000>XD
04:19<@planetmaker>hi V :)
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04:20<V453000> where have you been hiding? :P
04:20<@planetmaker>on faroer islands ;)
04:21<@planetmaker>in some troll caves or so :P
04:21<V453000>nice hide
04:27<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1145976#p1145976
04:30<supermop>shorter of the two 12000mm tile options look closest to default - the shortest 8000mm tile should just barely work
04:30<V453000>visual point: I think you need more contrast between the asphalt and other gray-style things
04:30<V453000>in other zooms than x4 it will just get lost, and in x4 it is barely there
04:31<supermop>if the goal is to match ogfx it should be the short 12000mm
04:31<supermop>hmm
04:31<V453000>why would you want to match opengfx with 32bpp/EZ thing
04:31<supermop>for the streets you mean?
04:31<chillcore>if it looks good it's okay
04:31<V453000>for everything but the white sprites
04:31<chillcore>if not ... it is still your set ;)
04:32<supermop>im just talking about stations, i put it in the road topic because i dont know whereelse to put the image
04:32<supermop>i want stations to match ogfx because it bothers me that there is no ogfx+ stations
04:32<supermop>so i figured i'd try to make some
04:33<supermop>as for dark grey streets they need more work indeed
04:33<supermop>but i'm not touching those for a while
04:34<supermop>there are enough road bits to make a complete road set, so i'm going to move on to other things, then mess with the fine tuning later
04:35<chillcore>that is how I code ... make it work and polish after
04:35<chillcore>I bet some peeps lose a couple of hairs when they read my early versions
04:36<chillcore>:P
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04:37<V453000>all of my newgrfs are very get it done, polish eventually later :P
04:37<V453000>hence most of yeti/rawr textures are pretty crappy
04:37<V453000>no details in models, ... :)
04:38<chillcore>hehe ... ofcourse as time goes by there is less polishing to do
04:39<chillcore>just learned how to iterate through an enum yesterday ...
04:39<chillcore>this gonna make my code alot shorter and neater in places
04:41<chillcore>how to do it properly that is
04:42<chillcore>less maintenance afterwards
04:42<chillcore>also other little tricks are nice to know
04:43<chillcore>when moddeling levels for HL ... leave a one unit gap between everything
04:43<chillcore>does hardly show unless there is a lightsource shining through
04:44<chillcore>does not break up surfaces so mucho less polygons
04:47<chillcore>ofcourse you do not do this when it is something a player has in his face up close
04:48<supermop>hmm?
04:49<chillcore>just something I picked up along the way ;)
04:49<chillcore>reducing memory footprint
04:49<chillcore>peeps seem no longer to care about that
04:50<chillcore>HL1 specs WERE 233 mhz and 32 megs of ram
04:51<chillcore>before Valve did the switcharoo
04:52<chillcore>they broke all mods ... in favour of their ...
04:52<chillcore>anyhoo
04:52<chillcore>moddb and planet half life
04:52<chillcore>^^^ great source for all kinds of goodies
04:52<chillcore>including tutorials
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04:57<supermop>ooh
04:57<supermop>hmm the ogfx maglev station is a bit odd
04:58<supermop>looks to me less futuristic than the monorail station
04:58<supermop>also i cannot tell what type of roof structure this is supposed to be
04:58<supermop>maybe tensile membrane or caternary
04:59<supermop>or maybe freeform rigid spaceframe
05:02<supermop>i could model it as any
05:03<supermop>i never had ttd so i dont know what the original maglev station looked like
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05:27<supermop>is people standing on platforms considered a good feature?
05:28<supermop>do people like the visual indication of passengers waiting?
05:34<chillcore>I don't dislike it ... but in the end they are just two pixels ... at normal zoom levels
05:35<chillcore>you can do both ...
05:35<chillcore>have them if people are actually waiting
05:37<chillcore>not that I know how to code it ... XD
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05:40<chillcore>reminds me of that castle ... little parade going on
05:40<chillcore>that was a pleasent surprise
05:41<juzza1>supermop: definitely a good feature
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06:42<Samu>hi
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i once thought of this feature: since you can detect whether a train is waiting on the platform, people should gather more densely on platforms with train waiting
07:08<supermop>yeah
07:09<supermop>obviously people wait for different trains in different ways, but it looks absurd to have 2000 people packed onto the platform while a non-stop high speed passes at 200 kmh
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, there are some edge cases which you can't properly detect
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>you'd need access to the unloading/loading flags of the train to work around this
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>but it would be very inefficient to access those
07:15<supermop>hmm
07:15<supermop>well
07:16<supermop>isr stations move gantry cranes over trains that are loading
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07:23<supermop>so presumably you could animate people moving around on platforms that are loading
07:23<V453000>XD
07:23<supermop>if a bulk coal train happend to stop there and unload people would mill around to look at the coal though
07:24<chillcore>supermop: you do not put speed limits on the train before it passes through a station?
07:24<chillcore>hehe
07:24<supermop>just as the default station changes graphics between rail, monorail, and maglev
07:25<supermop>you could make platforms that add platform doors if rail type is highspeed
07:28<chillcore>and yes you could animate passengers ... also you could add more or less depending on amount waiting if no train is loading
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: well, real trains do pass stations at those speeds
07:30<chillcore>true ...
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. in Bitterfeld
07:30<chillcore>seems crazy to me but yeah
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>of course, who would ever want to go to Bitterfeld...
07:31<supermop>and change outfits of what the passengers are wearing due to complex town set that simulates economic vitality of each town
07:31<supermop>M-F black suits and t shirts on the weekend
07:31<chillcore>haha we need weather
07:31<supermop>long coats above snow line
07:32<supermop>the longer passengers are waiting the more are looking at their watch or yelling at station staff
07:33<chillcore>need moar zoomzoom moar
07:33<supermop>also draw watches on piles of coal, so the longer the coal has been waiting the more piles are looking at their watches
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07:54<chillcore>o/
07:58<chillcore>V453000: I can't reply to the topic because roboboy was kind enough to close down that flamewar waiting to happen
07:58<V453000>wat
07:58<chillcore>have you ever tried the improved breakdowns patch?
07:58<chillcore>and its little brother that extends on it ...
07:59<chillcore>makes a hell of a lot difference as trains keep running
07:59<V453000>I generally dont try patches much
07:59<chillcore>albeit not as they should untill serviced
07:59<chillcore>ok
07:59<chillcore>you should try that one some day
08:00<V453000>I dont really play the game at all anymore :)
08:00<chillcore>hehe
08:00<chillcore>this chillcore dude has it in his patchpack ;)
08:01<chillcore>some day ... if you feel like it
08:01<chillcore>but it does change things
08:01<chillcore>you even get a reason what is wrong
08:01<V453000>ok :)
08:01<V453000>what exactly does it do?
08:01<chillcore>and it behaves accordingly
08:01<chillcore>all kinds of stuffs
08:01<chillcore>engine failure
08:02<chillcore>breaks failure
08:02<chillcore>emergency stops
08:02<chillcore>not just trains too
08:02<V453000>xd
08:02<V453000>but do vehicles run without failures if I service them properly?
08:02<chillcore>yes?
08:03<chillcore>I am not sure but the gridlocks happen less frequently
08:03<V453000>XD
08:03<V453000>well at least something :)
08:06<chillcore>not sure why it was never added in trunk ... maybe some bugsies left ... I dunno
08:10<chillcore>hmm no wait the little brother I mentioned above is more conditional orders and even more conditional orders, not breakdowns ... my bad
08:13<@planetmaker>not exactly sure... I think the idea was to have breakdowns a bit more generalized than adding more types. Maybe newgrf-able or scriptable
08:13<@planetmaker>but... long ago. not sure
08:24<chillcore>yes people do have the tendency to add more in 1 patch then they should ... for trunk that is
08:24<chillcore>yours truly included
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08:36<Samu>V453000: are you a graphical expert?
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08:37<V453000>I do graphics.
08:37<V453000>the word expert is quite relative
08:37<Samu>i made a change in code to allow bridges over lock parts, but, while this works
08:37<Samu>the bridge tile is invisible
08:37<Samu>not drawn
08:38<Samu>road vehicle goes over this invisibile platform thing
08:38<Samu>what could be missing?
08:39<V453000>idk I dont know much about the actual functionality of sprite ordering etc
08:39<V453000>I just do pictures.
08:39<Samu>oh, oki
08:40<V453000>the answer probably is "but there is no bridge!"
08:40<V453000>go figure :)
08:40<Samu>it is traversable, just not drawn
08:40<V453000>sure I understood :)
08:42<chillcore>I am missing something here ...
08:42<chillcore>XD
08:44<V453000>:)
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08:52<chillcore>hmm why is marico not working in openttd no more? it worked before right?
08:52<chillcore>all objects show as 0 * 0 tiles
08:53<chillcore>"can not build object ..." the rest is not there
08:54<chillcore>hmm testing older version to see if the author did not set a max version
08:56<chillcore>nope same thing in my patchpack ... except there the graphics do not even show up
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08:56<chillcore>the space is there but not the actual graphics
08:57<chillcore>strange
08:57<V453000>everybody move to ttdpatch immudetely!
08:57<V453000>also register on simuscape
09:01<chillcore>ah right ...
09:02<chillcore>you can read a bit more though now without registering
09:02<chillcore>anyhoo ...
09:02<V453000>I am banned so np :>
09:03<chillcore>I did not mean that .. just that there is no point in getting exited ... ttpatch.de does not work without https so ... that's trhat too
09:04<V453000>xd
09:04<chillcore>s with/without
09:04<chillcore>so closed ... much wall
09:04<chillcore>why were you banned you naughty boy?
09:04<chillcore>if I may ask ...
09:05<chillcore>feel free to not reply
09:05<V453000>I cant say I know precisely, but hm
09:05<V453000>well first off I dared to defend bananas and say that they dont understand the TOC
09:05<V453000>because they just openly lied often about it, so yeah that was uncomfortable
09:05<chillcore>eh? I got banned from steam discussions and I know exactly why ...
09:06<V453000>and then I had stolen trees on my dropbox after it was removed from bananas because I needed to distribute it to people who didnt have it for our old savegames :)
09:06<V453000>of course the file on my dropbox had license which allowed sharing
09:06<chillcore>hehe
09:06<V453000>I think I am even mentioned in their hall of shame
09:06<V453000>or something
09:06<V453000>^^
09:07<chillcore>hall of shame ... :/
09:07<V453000>more like a golden pedestal for me but ok :D
09:08<chillcore>also can not re-troactively change a lisence ...
09:08<V453000>sure
09:08<V453000>I know very well
09:08<V453000>but since the cunt even sent a DMCA charge on my dropbox account, disabling it immediately, I did not have the stomach to handle a law war so I just deleted the file
09:09<chillcore>you can start distributing under a different one sure ...
09:09<V453000>nah we just uploaded it to some dutch server
09:09<chillcore>but the cookies that are out the door are for the njummies
09:09<chillcore>like it or not
09:09<V453000>and/or I send it to people via email, /care
09:10<chillcore>true
09:10<chillcore>but even DMCA ... omg
09:10<chillcore>anyhoo
09:10<V453000>cause dropbox has pants brown from DMCA and I think it even has a button to report
09:10<V453000>or such
09:10<V453000>regardles, I was uncomfortable so she had nothing better to do than that
09:11<V453000>btw the legal name that was in the law dmca paper was not female ;)
09:11<V453000>just a detail XD
09:11<chillcore>hehe
09:11<chillcore>bit like youtube ... I can take down all of it ... mine or not
09:11<chillcore>that just stinks
09:11<V453000>yeah
09:12<chillcore>I want to see valve try and stop me selling my hardcopies of HL
09:12<V453000>it made me a lot more paranoid about my data
09:12<chillcore>but I can not because then that person can claim my account :/
09:12<chillcore>ye
09:12<V453000>the dropbox DMCA thing also stated that if such report is ticketed one more time, they will immediately remove all of my files from dropbox
09:13<chillcore>you moved I hope ...
09:13<V453000>which basically means that anybody can completely sabotage my dropbox at any point, without me being able to do anything
09:13<V453000>it is just funny
09:13<chillcore>away from them
09:13<V453000>of course
09:13<chillcore>k
09:13<V453000>ah that
09:13<V453000>no
09:13<V453000>I still use it
09:13<chillcore>you should
09:13<chillcore>not use it no more
09:13<V453000>but I dont rely on it in any way
09:13<chillcore>but that is just me
09:13<V453000>well sure but I dont have anything important there
09:13<chillcore>k
09:13<V453000>I tried setting up box.com but no success, idk why anymore
09:14<V453000>but I am assuming they have similar law bullshit around them
09:14<chillcore>ye
09:14<V453000>important things are on harddisks and in repos, and everybody can kiss my ass
09:14<chillcore>and also if you remember what they did to them other file sharing sites
09:14<V453000>especially people like "her"
09:14<chillcore>so much genuine stuffs lost
09:14<V453000>mhm
09:15<chillcore>megaupload?
09:15<chillcore>or was it that other one?
09:15<V453000>idk even, but probably that too
09:15<chillcore>I can't remember
09:15<chillcore>but not everything on there was pirated
09:15<V453000>I dont really follow all this because i am sick of it
09:15<chillcore>ye
09:15<V453000>the piracy sites are kind of a gray moral zone, but still
09:16<V453000>removing things is just wrong
09:16<chillcore>t is the users not the site
09:16<V453000>yeah I know
09:16<chillcore>same with pirate bay
09:16<V453000>exactly
09:16<chillcore>I can not access it no more
09:16<chillcore>I did not get stuffs there but was fun reading
09:16<chillcore>still it is users sharing
09:16<V453000>piratebay just changes the domains but it still works
09:17<chillcore>not in my country
09:17<V453000>hm
09:17<V453000>oh wel
09:18<chillcore>it shows me a page with a stop sign
09:18<chillcore>like a real one you see on the streets
09:18<V453000>lol
09:18<chillcore>You have been redirected to this stop page because the website you are trying to visit offers content that is considered illegal according to Belgian legislation.
09:18<chillcore>If you are the owner or administrator of this website and you consider to be wrongly redirected, you can report this by fax at +32(0)2/733.56.16.
09:20<chillcore>also logos ... fgov, fedict, belgium, ecops and police
09:20<chillcore>lol
09:21<chillcore>anyhoo
09:22<chillcore>but like I said, nothing on there that I wanted anyways
09:22<V453000>ye, meh
09:32<chillcore>hmm seems I clicked something wrong
09:32<chillcore>"You're not channel operator" hehe
09:33<chillcore>sensitive mouse
09:33<chillcore>sometimes double clicks when it should not
09:34<chillcore>so I get to select whatever is first in the little menu that opens
09:34<chillcore>kinda annoying if it is undo
09:34<chillcore>coding ^^^
09:37<V453000>im making a very openttd-ish model for work
09:37<V453000>it is a load of fun :D
09:37<V453000>but deadlines are a bitch
09:43<chillcore>depends ... I like em kinda
09:43<chillcore>gives me that umph
09:44<chillcore>if I have a week to do something I can do in two days ... I'll do it right now or wait till the last minute
09:44<chillcore>one of both
09:44<chillcore>usueally the stuff I really enjoy is right now
09:44<chillcore>:P
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09:55<chillcore>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
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09:56<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
09:56<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 19 hours, 22 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <andythenorth> lo
09:56<DanMacK>grrr lol
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10:27<Samu>Is there a string "... must demolish river first" or close to it?
10:28<Samu>must demolish canal first exists, but... doesn't fit
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10:44<@planetmaker>grep is your friend, Samu
10:45<Samu>grep?
10:45<ST2>http://stefanstools.sourceforge.net/grepWin.html
10:45<ST2>for windows :)
10:46<@planetmaker>or more simply: any decent search tool
10:47<ST2>personally, I like grepWin ;)
10:47<Samu>I am thinking of submiting one of my patches
10:48<Samu>to the bugspray
10:48<Samu>but dunno if it's the right approach
10:48<Samu>need some review
10:48<@planetmaker>depends. Forum and flyspray both are ok. Depends on how fit for trunk inclusion you consider the patch
10:49<@planetmaker>if it's still much WIP the forums might be more appropriate
10:49<Samu>forum have been quite silent about my patch
10:49<Samu>patches
10:52<Samu>canal on river patch is pretty much complete
10:53<Samu>just wondering about the default behaviour when terraforming land with rivers on them
10:53<Samu>if it brings the error about must demolish river first, or if i let it do what it does already
10:54<Samu>and yes, river, in this patch, is demolishable
10:55<@planetmaker>aye. Well, then use flyspray. I've no opinion on that yet and I didn't follow any discussion this month, so...
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11:25<@Alberth>o/
11:27*NGC3982 is on a train again.
11:28<NGC3982>This time, the same X2 back to Alvesta.
11:28<NGC3982>If you pretend a bit, the dialectal translation of the Swedish town Alvesta is "Elven town".
11:30<chillcore>haai Albert o/
11:30<chillcore>+h
11:36<@Alberth>hi hi master of semi-chaos networks :)
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11:37<chillcore>just expressing what it looks like in my head :P
11:37<@Alberth>:D
11:38<@Alberth>just as in the network, everything in your head has a purpose :)
11:39*chillcore bets noone will notice the change of driveside in one the screenshots
11:40<@Alberth>:O trains don't always drive at the right side? :)
11:40<chillcore>nope ...
11:40<chillcore>haha
11:40<@Alberth>oh dear
11:41<@Alberth>don't think it's relevant, setting can easily be removed :p
11:41<chillcore>in that game anyway ... I should have a later version that may or may be more chaotic in places
11:41<@Alberth>or we can connect it to the language :)
11:42<chillcore>hmm removing the setting will not help much ... I litterally have my signals facing the other way
11:42<@Alberth>:o
11:42<chillcore>just for giggles
11:43<@Alberth>no problems finding train drivers?
11:43<chillcore>nah ... they are well trained
11:44<chillcore>I just had a prob with trains waiting at the back of one way signals
11:44<chillcore>I disabled turn at signals and well ... yeah
11:44<chillcore>when that was introduced it gave me some probs
11:45<chillcore>nothing that can not be fixed
11:45<chillcore>I then continued in my patchpack where I added the option to disable that
11:46<chillcore>I would give the savegame but I guess peeps will have a though time finding the correct NewGRFs
11:47<chillcore>that game was started in my very first self-build so
11:47<chillcore>not many of them are even on bananas
11:49<chillcore>but instead of having you guess where I change driving side ...
11:49<chillcore>second screenshot, middle top
11:49<chillcore>the track leading out of the screenshot
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11:52<Samu>Alberth: would you like to review my patch?
11:53<@Alberth>chillcore: haha :)
11:53<@Alberth>Samu: I would like dinner now
11:53<Samu>:)
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11:55*chillcore hides eggsies from Alberth
11:55<chillcore>*for?
11:55<Samu>okay i'll post it on the forum
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12:14<@Alberth>ooh, they would have been useful
12:14<Samu>here it is Alberth at the very last lines of it, after all that begging for help, it Canal on River -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72691&p=1145745#p1145745
12:14<Samu>it's
12:14<Samu>canal on river v2
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12:19<chillcore>xD Alberth, I doubt these would fulfil your needs they are tiny and blue
12:25<@Alberth>quite likely :)
12:37<@Alberth>Samu: the post could use a small description of what high level problem you're solving perhaps? ie what is the question where the patch is the answer to?
12:39<Samu>it restores rivers when demolishing a canal that has been built on a river tile. Demolishing a 2nd time will actually destroy the river.
12:40<Samu>pretty much
12:40<@Alberth>k
12:43<Samu>oops, found something that needs fixing, :(
12:43<Samu>lines 166 and 167 still using SB
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13:01<Samu>those tab spaces or white lines too, annoying
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13:18*chillcore scratches head ... must see in context
13:25<chillcore>right ... done scratching till next episode
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13:41<Wolf01>hi hi
13:42<chillcore>hello wolf o/
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27212 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt luxembourgish.txt) (2015-03-30 19:45:29 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 4 changes by Eskymak
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 113 changes by Phreeze
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14:08<andythenorth>cat is where?
14:09<Wolf01>on the carpet, close to the table
14:13<andythenorth>hmm
14:13<andythenorth>do I have enough battery left to compile newgrf?
14:14<andythenorth>oh
14:14<andythenorth>devzone is borked anyway
14:14<Wolf01>James Watt only knows
14:14<V453000>I am starting to seriously consider learning blender
14:14<andythenorth>why not a real app?
14:14<@Alberth>blend all the things!
14:14<V453000>in many ways of the modelling I do it seems to be so much more friendly with my way of working
14:15<V453000>and well, duh :) just want to try
14:15<V453000>blender got a lot better in the last years
14:16<V453000>I am not sure anymore dear old autodesk is so mighty anymore
14:17<@planetmaker>o/
14:17<chillcore>if I take a hammer and smash things to little pieces before throwing them in a bag and shaking, does that count as blending?
14:17<andythenorth>I only used blender once, years ago
14:17<andythenorth>so I should stfu
14:18<andythenorth>the main feature was very much “It’s free"
14:18<V453000>the controlling is horrible
14:18<V453000>but gui alone is just SO much better than max
14:18<andythenorth>I tried manipulating objects in it
14:18<andythenorth>gave up after about 5 mins
14:18<V453000>the free part obviously plays a role but still
14:18<andythenorth>even grabbing and moving a solid was...blearch
14:18<V453000>well sure, that is just about getting used to
14:18<V453000>it is stupidly different
14:18<chillcore>It confused me ... but then again I did not 'really' try to do so
14:20<chillcore>I can make some simple stuffs like a tile set for for use in unity
14:20<chillcore>but then I got one of the zBase models and i was completely lost
14:25<chillcore>maybe it had to do with what zbase does ; more then one model in a file. no idea how to hide the others and when importing in unity they were all garbled in one instead of being in the same position they had in blender
14:25<chillcore>then I gave up that idea :P
14:26<chillcore>must try again ... so much to do so little time ...
14:29-!-DanMacK [~oftc-webi@63-238-138-132.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #openttd
14:29<DanMacK>Hey all
14:29<DanMacK>Somebody break Devzone?
14:30<andythenorth>yup
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14:48<V453000>:0 blender now has a 3ds max preset for controls XD
14:48<V453000>that is awesome
14:48<V453000>instant removal of 50% problems XD
14:50<@Alberth>:)
14:52-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-251-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<Samu>i am bored
14:53<Samu>tell me something
14:54<Wolf01>something
14:56<Samu>:)
14:59<Samu>is editing a string inside englist.txt the only thing I need to do when I create a new one?
15:01<@Alberth>yep
15:01<Samu>what about the other languages
15:02<Samu>how could the translators know there would be a new string?
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15:05<Wolf01>do not worry about it, if the patch will hit the trunk, they will know
15:06<@planetmaker>DanMacK, andythenorth devzone is back. sorry for the inconvenience
15:06<@planetmaker>or back in a few seconds
15:06<Samu>hmm, ok
15:06<andythenorth>yay :)
15:06<Samu>well, then i'm creating new string
15:15<Samu>STR_ERROR_MUST_DEMOLISH_RIVER_FIRST :{WHITE}Must demolish river first
15:16<Samu>demolish isn't quite the right word
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15:16<Wolf01>"clear"?
15:16<Samu>also, in-game how can i differenciate river from lake?
15:16<Samu>ok, clear
15:16<Samu>differentiate*
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15:19<Samu>in-game code*
15:19<Samu>that is
15:19<@Alberth>by testing against what you believe is the differentiating factor between both?
15:21<Samu>they're both river tiles
15:21<Samu>landscape generator though creates a box of rivers so that we humans can see that as a lake
15:22<Samu>no idea if it's ok to genelarize them as rivers
15:23<Samu>woah, i found a bug just now
15:24<Samu>running openttd alongside need for speed world
15:24-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C7F2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24<Samu>openttd image stops refreshing when i move the cursor around when nfsw is running
15:25<@Alberth>that's your operating system
15:25<Samu>only when the cursor is idling
15:25<Wolf01>nice, I found a bug on a software while debugging another one
15:25<Samu>the screen moves
15:25<Samu>it didn't use to do this before
15:26<Samu>let me try with other game
15:28<Samu>also happening with path of exile
15:28<Samu>brb restarting ottd
15:30<Samu>this is strange, still happening, did you change something about mouse cursor movement again?
15:30<@planetmaker>samu, is lake constance a river or lake? ;)
15:30<Samu>when i query it, it's a river
15:31<Samu>when i look at it, resembles a lake though
15:32<Samu>i must install a previous ottd to see if it happened before
15:33<+glx>Samu: it's windows, not ottd
15:33<Samu>i really don't recall this ever happening before
15:33<Samu>but
15:33<Samu>dunno
15:34<Samu>wanna make sure
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15:41<Samu>so odd
15:41<Samu>its in 1.4.4 too
15:44<chillcore>...
15:44<Samu>restarting windows
15:44<+glx>won't change anything
15:45<+glx>probably a fight between GDI and DX
15:45<Samu>ah, just found the culprit
15:46<Samu>AMD Gaming Evolved App
15:46<Samu>this crap
15:46<+glx>of course if you use stupid apps
15:46<Samu>was updated recently, and introduced a nice bug apparently
15:46<Samu>:)
15:47<Samu>running path of exile and 1.5.0-RC1, no problems now
15:48<andythenorth>yeah this is mentioned before
15:48<andythenorth>apparently it ‘optimises’ your system
15:48<andythenorth>but it screws OpenTTD
15:49<andythenorth>Samu, it wasn’t you who found that before?
15:50<Samu>the problem was not this, it was when closing it while openttd was still running, it could cause openttd to crash
15:50<@Alberth>also known as "it screws openttd" :)
15:51<chillcore>xD
15:52<Samu>it was always running in the background, so i barelly closed it
15:52<Samu>but this problem is new :(
15:54<Samu>OBS is also updated from time to time, but it's not causing any problem
15:54<Samu>it was really AMD GE
15:54<Samu>~poor AMD
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16:12<Samu>question
16:12<Samu>:{WHITE}Must demolish canal first
16:13<Samu>... must demolish canal first
16:13<Samu>fits better
16:13<Samu>can i fix it in here?
16:13<Samu>:{WHITE}... must demolish canal first
16:15<@planetmaker>Make it consistent with how the other error messages for similar errors look
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16:21<Samu>"Can't raise/lower/level land here... ", then "Must demolish canal first"
16:21<Samu>i don't know of any other way to trigger it
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16:25<Samu>well i'll leave it be
16:25<Samu>then you decide
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16:41<Samu>hmm, one other question, I built openttd.exe but it generated a new string automatically
16:41<Samu>when i submit a patch, do I submit it with the string already generated or not?
16:42<frosch123>your vcs will know just fine what files to diff
16:43<Samu>tortoise SVN?
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16:44<Samu>oh, I see, it isn't including the strings.h
16:45<+glx>it doesn't have to
16:45<+glx>(hint: it's a generated file)
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16:51<andythenorth>new hog
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17:26<chillcore>good night o/
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17:28<Samu>updated http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72691&p=1146033#p1146033
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17:34<Samu>who's a professional english speaker
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17:34<Samu>these descriptions need help, cus im terrible: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plko4pjxx
17:36<Samu>"Bit field layout of m5 for water tiles." can't use this description to generalize because WBL_RIVER_FLAG uses m6
17:36<Samu>it's the exception
17:37<Samu>the other comments need help
17:37<Samu>badly
17:37<Samu>:(
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18:46<Wolf01>'night
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19:11<Samu>how do I hide my email address from the forum?
19:13<Samu>ah, got it
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21:09<chillcore>good morning o/
21:14<chillcore>something is broken
21:14<chillcore>when I build a dock on river and bomb it
21:15<chillcore>the river is still there :P
21:15<chillcore>gong to have a look maybe at industructable rivers
21:15<chillcore>wthout the BS
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21:29<Supercheese>Indestructible rivers is good
21:30<Supercheese>I would like that feature
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21:35<chillcore>allow destryoing with magic bomb or not?
21:36<chillcore>in normal game that is ...
21:36<chillcore>not sure about that part
21:37<chillcore>one the one hand I would allow but then the river is cut ... can not build it so ...
21:37<chillcore>there is always scenario editor to remove parts
21:37<chillcore>first cutting the crap
21:42<Supercheese>Yes, make it like transmitters/lighthice
21:42<Supercheese>normally immune except for magic dozer
21:43<chillcore>ok. ;)
21:45<Supercheese>:)
22:03<chillcore>been stuck on this all week
22:03<chillcore>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi1h8F-mpGQ
22:03<chillcore>memory lane
22:04<chillcore>^^^ spoiler alert: old shool trance for those of you who do not like that ...
22:27<chillcore>hmm ... if I am not carefull with cutting this is going to turn out pretty much a oneliner ...
22:28<chillcore>it is only when bombing canal that the river is destroyed along with it
22:28<chillcore>then just keeping peeps from bombing river should do it ...
22:28<chillcore>I think ...
22:28<chillcore>this bitmagics ...
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23:17<supermop>who doesn't like oldschool trance
23:18<Supercheese>What an odd request: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=72857
23:18<supermop>i've said it before and i'll say it again: if i had a time machine it would go to 1998 and 1998 only
23:18<supermop>odd request but i like it
23:19<chillcore>there are a few of ye older goats who do not :P
23:19<chillcore>just warning them as I posted at a very early hour ... for europeans that is
23:20<chillcore>talking about goats ... my beard is really getting grey
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23:41<chillcore>cool no terrforming rivers no more, destroying canal keeps river intact, just need to stop peeps from bombing the river normally and done
23:42<chillcore>^^^ with a quarter of the code I had here
---Logclosed Tue Mar 31 00:00:14 2015