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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-03

---Logopened Fri Apr 03 00:00:18 2015
00:01<supermop>ok rendering is taking a bit
00:18-!-AbsoluteVeritas [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
00:22<supermop>need better msking around the edges on these
00:22<supermop>but haven't cleaned up in PS yet
00:23<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146298#p1146298
00:25-!-|Truth| [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:30<supermop>need some glazing over the ends on the shed now
00:33<supermop>and i guess a headhouse
00:33<supermop>but that may be out of scope
00:36<supermop>better to do shelter for the open platforms first
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01:21<supermop>can hear a steam train outside
01:27-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1002:8400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
01:27<chillcore>good morning interwebz o/
01:28<supermop>yo chillcore
01:29<chillcore>hello supermop
01:29<chillcore>the details on your model are just WOW ;)
01:30<chillcore>in a good way
01:30<supermop>haha well you won't be able to see that much of it in game
01:30<chillcore>I hope you will be able to re-use them for a game where they shine
01:30<supermop>now im doing the small building for the outdoor platform
01:31<chillcore>maybe sell them as assets in unity ;)
01:32-!-cctvs [~oftc-webi@123.111.102.44] has joined #openttd
01:32<chillcore>looking forward to see the rest
01:32<cctvs>ㅎᆢ이
01:33-!-cctvs [~oftc-webi@123.111.102.44] has quit []
01:37<chillcore>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rGiKv1xkE0
01:38<chillcore>05:06:20
01:39<V453000>yarr
01:39<chillcore>05:04:30 that should have been ;)
01:39<chillcore>hehe
01:39-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
01:39-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
01:40<chillcore>then go back to 00:00:00 :P
01:40<chillcore>o/ hello alberth
01:40<@Alberth>more sleep!
01:40<@Alberth>hi hi
01:40<supermop>hmm 3m or 4m
01:40<supermop>hi Alberth
01:40<supermop>hi V453000
01:40*chillcore sends sandman to Alberth
01:41<@Alberth>ZZZzzzzzzzzz
01:43<V453000>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9sTYFTK6LY
01:43<V453000>WHOLE LENGTH
01:46<@Alberth>hmm, I haven't had any coffee yet :)
01:46<V453000>also, how the fuck is this genre called :D I want it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MXBQKA6oNU
01:47<@Alberth>euhm, still busy with your previous link :p
01:47<V453000>the second is more efficient in time:holy shit ratio
01:53<@Alberth>weird :)
01:54<chillcore>I'd class that under holy dubstep? second link
01:54<chillcore>:P
01:54<chillcore>or un-
01:54<V453000>YES
01:54<V453000>TO EVERYTHING
01:55<chillcore>still got two hours left on my link though ...
01:55<V453000>I had to wake up at 4am today so I need something more efficient
01:55<chillcore>hehe
01:56<chillcore>my dad would call that "TURN THE VOLUME DOWN ... we can't talk no more down here! .. thx"
01:57<V453000>WRONG ATTITUDE
01:57<chillcore>ah not if he's two floors down ... and really can't hear no more what the other person is saying
01:57<chillcore>xD
01:57<V453000>XD
01:57<V453000>ok
01:59<chillcore>and that was me listening to deep purple, something he likes too ... his own records
02:22<Flygon>http://imgur.com/gallery/CQxzaU7
02:23<chillcore>hehe
02:23<chillcore>no signals?
02:24<Flygon>Dunno. I can't afford the game.
02:24<chillcore>oh ok.
02:25<chillcore>I don't have it neither
02:26<chillcore>got burnt too many times searching for a replacement for RCT and RCT2
02:27<@Alberth>round-about is special in the sense you need to have at least one segment free in order to have it flow
02:27<chillcore>huhu
02:27<@Alberth>so 'next segment is free' isn't enough to allow entry
02:28<@Alberth>as you do with 'normal' tracks
02:29<supermop>what game is that?
02:29<@Alberth>a game of deadlock :p
02:29<Flygon>I keep trying to figure out how to make more compact and efficient rail junctions in OpenTTD
02:29<Flygon>But I can't
02:29<Flygon>Diagonal bridges/tunnels are impossible
02:30<Flygon>If I could build in a 3D space, I'd, like
02:30<Flygon>Build far better junctions :B
02:30<Flygon>Cloverleafs suck ass and take too much space for a good speed D:
02:31<@Alberth>I invent new ones each time :)
02:31<chillcore>hehe I don't know if I ever posted that WTF 10 tile junction ...
02:31<@Alberth>not in the last place because the terrain is different each time
02:32<chillcore>and yeah I go with what I can pull of too depending on terrain
02:32<Flygon>I do generally try to make it up on the spot
02:33<Flygon>But, if you truly really need a true 4-way junction...
02:33<Flygon>You need a Cloverleaf for anything sensible
02:33<@Alberth>I hardly ever need those
02:34<Flygon>Though, of course
02:34<Flygon>Cloverleafs still have weaving problems...
02:34<Flygon>So you need to create an even LARGER cloverleaf just to avoid weaving congestion
02:34<Flygon>And I aint getting into if there's more than 2 tracks on either line <_>
02:35<@Alberth>you have too much traffic then :)
02:37<Flygon>Yes
02:39<chillcore>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28633
02:39<chillcore>flygon: last post ...
02:41<chillcore>it should not deadlock ...
02:41<Flygon>You and I play very differently x3
02:41<Flygon>I tend to try and aim for asthetics
02:41<chillcore>hey hey ...
02:42<chillcore>xD
02:42<Flygon>Whaaat?
02:42<Flygon>I can't lie to you!
02:42<chillcore>the second has room for a statue
02:42<Flygon>I like you too much!
02:42<Flygon>...
02:42<chillcore>Thank you ... I appreciate that
02:42<Flygon>Well
02:42<Flygon>I can't deny the statue bit
02:43<Flygon>I'm laughing too hard at how good of a point you have
02:43<chillcore>you're welcome
02:44<chillcore>infact there are 9 spots left ;)
02:44<chillcore>for trees and shizz
02:47<chillcore>but yeah as I try to terraform as little as possible my games often do not have such junctions
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02:47*Flygon nod
02:47<Flygon>I do need to learn to terraform a bit less
02:49<chillcore>gosh ... flamewar waiting to happen
02:49<@Alberth>add insanely high costs to it :)
02:50<chillcore>1.5.0 topic ... sarcasm and interwebz ... no good mix without smilies
02:51<@Alberth></sigh>
02:53<chillcore>Flygon: I use the smallest size terraform tool and try to resist doing more then two three tiles if the utoslope is no use
02:54<chillcore>autoslope*
02:54*Flygon nod
02:55<chillcore>nods*
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03:22<chillcore>hmm twente is giving me the finger ... or rather my browser is
03:23<chillcore>might it be good isdea to add a clone link to the download page for stable releases?
03:23<chillcore>-s
03:23<chillcore>where is the braches location again ...
03:23<chillcore>branches*
03:23<chillcore>Moar coffee Moar
03:24<Supercheese>I dunno, sometimes I think coffee has a reverse effect on me and makes me sleepier
03:25<chillcore>hehe
03:26<chillcore>you know that most brands of thee have more caffeine in them per cup then coffee has?
03:26-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-87-87.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd
03:27<chillcore>but true that substances often have different effects on peeps
03:27<@planetmaker>moin
03:27<chillcore>o/ planetmaker
03:28<supermop>time for platform shelters
03:28<supermop>but these aren't going to keep anyone warm...
03:29-!-Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
03:31<Supercheese>Friggin' airships refuse to land properly at the new helipad layouts I try and provide
03:32<Supercheese>maybe I should try a water airport for those seaplanes instead, I'm not very fond of the existing sea airport grf
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03:34<Pikka>friggin airships indeed
03:41<supermop>ok! even more cast iron is done, fresh from the foundry
03:41<supermop>and then left out to get rusted and pitted, painted over, left for the paint to peel off,
03:41<supermop>then finally painted again:
03:41<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146307#p1146307
03:43<chillcore>nice nice ... and yes keep the cc
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03:45<supermop>i think that makes more sense than the little house to the side
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03:46<chillcore>you really can keep all of the above ...
03:46<supermop>I'd like to provide a small cute victorian or edwardian station house, but as a separate building to be build to the side
03:46<supermop>it's just too cramped in the space between the rail and tile edge
03:47<@planetmaker>easy approach, supermop : separate station tile to be selected by player
03:47<supermop>yes
03:47<@planetmaker>except if it fits on the single-track tiles next to the tracks - thus default one-track layout could include it. Dunno what you envision exactly
03:48<@planetmaker>anyhow, your steel versions look awesome as well :)
03:48<supermop>i think the default should just have the shelter
03:48<supermop>player can then build station house themselves wherever they want
03:49<chillcore>if sets do not provide the single tile option, I just build the complete station and delete tiles as needed
03:49<supermop>saves selective rebuilding to remove extraneous station houses
03:49<chillcore>having the option is nice though
03:49<supermop>also the default house is always on the north platform, sometimes you may want to choose to have it to the south
03:51<supermop>for the default single platform, should the shelter be the full tile length or half tile (both are shown in renderings)?
03:51<supermop>full tile would let it combine with other tiles next to it
03:52<supermop>but half tile centered is more like default ogfx behavior (small building centered on center tile of platform)
04:00<supermop>Pikka: we need to find a good procedural eucalyptus tool
04:00<Pikka>I'm working on it ;)
04:00<Pikka>although I'm also working on 1200 words due by midnight, so...
04:01<supermop>flamingo 2.0 has a bunch of tropic and Mediterranean plants but no gum trees...
04:01<supermop>well goodspeed
04:01<Pikka>definitely going to use procedural drawing rather than 3d modelling for trees, ground tiles and probably people.
04:01<supermop>people.. hmm i think i'll do like i did in arch. school
04:02-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd
04:02<supermop>and composite in desaturated translucent photos of people
04:02<Pikka>I have a few ideas
04:03<Pikka>but no time to work on them right now :)
04:03<supermop>yyeah
04:04<supermop>rendered people aren't going to look good without professional level modelling and rendering
04:04<Pikka>well
04:04<Pikka>they're going to be 10px tall in OpenTTD
04:04<Pikka>even in EZ
04:04<V453000>even in x4 people are still small :)
04:04<Pikka>so don't go too overboard :P
04:04<V453000>(: yeah
04:04<V453000>hi :P
04:05<V453000>thats why I ask about the "rendered with actual openttd setup" supermop, I think some details will just be completely invisible
04:05<V453000>if you just make people as a set of slightly edited cylinders, they will be good enuf already
04:06<V453000> cylinders/capsules :)
04:06<V453000>for example, a yeti dude in the game is 1/3rd of a tile tall
04:06<V453000>which is majorly oversized to get any sight of details
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04:06<supermop_>yeah thats why i think i can get away with almost abstract drawings or photos - you just need the effect of human noise on platforms
04:07<V453000>yes
04:07<supermop_>just something to create a feeling of claustrophobia so you know that your station is packed
04:08<supermop_>i do like the pixel people in japan stations
04:08<supermop_>totally out of scale but still tiny
04:08<supermop_>yet at 4x you can tell what they were going for
04:09<supermop_>there's a schoolgirl, bussiness man, mom with kid
04:10<@planetmaker>yep, the japanese set does an excellent job in that regard
04:10<supermop_>i never noticed for sure but i also think they wear more black and navy in early 20th c, more colorful t-shirts in modern era
04:11<V453000>xd
04:11<Pikka>ooh
04:11<supermop_>for simplicity my set is set in new york so everyone wears black
04:12<supermop_>maybe victorian times so everyone is wearing a hat too
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04:12<supermop_>just amorphous charcoal tubes
04:12<supermop_>hmm why dos it say i just quit?
04:13<Pikka>you joined just before you said "yeah thats why i think i can get away with almost"
04:13<Pikka>I blame peter1138
04:13<supermop_>hmm
04:14<supermop_>now i have an underscore
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04:14<Pikka>don't shout or everyone will want one
04:15<supermop_>should have gone for pipe separator instead
04:15<supermop_>so someone was running a steam train on the metro line near here today
04:16<supermop_>we are not even that close to the line and i could hear the whistle clearly
04:23<supermop_>hmmm. now what. not sure if i should go further down the rabbit hole making all the accouterments for the early rail style station or move on to the caternary roof monorail style one
04:23<@planetmaker>supermop_, I think V453000 has a fair point: you've definitely gone far already with your models, it looks also to me like it would soonish be a good time to actually get the setup render actual sprites
04:23<supermop_>that one is a bit more interesting to me, but i've yet to consider how to design it and my head is in a very 19th c place
04:24<@planetmaker>so that one can get an impression as of how it looks ingame - which is certainly also a very valuable feedback for you yourself
04:24<supermop_>planetmaker: fair enough. didn't know if it was worth doing benches and signs now
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04:24<@planetmaker>for that reason :) Though I think it is
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04:25<@planetmaker>beauty is in the details :)
04:25<V453000>I mainly meant for yourself, people are cute but meh; if you model everything, then render it into the game and discover you want to re-model most of it, you will be disappointed and unmotivated :)
04:25<V453000>and yes
04:25<V453000>details matter, even if they are not recognizable in the game much
04:26<V453000>they make the impression of not-empty stuff and show that the graphics have been put effort into
04:26<@Alberth>and they're great for the advertorial poster! ;)
04:27<@planetmaker>:)
04:27<V453000>+ that
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05:20<chillcore>and our newest member is a ... spammer yay
05:21<chillcore>gotta give our mods credit ... so little shows up on the forums:bow:
05:23<chillcore>^^^ hmm that was the second newest
05:23<chillcore>anyhoo
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05:31<Supercheese>new anti-spam bot is in place now too
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05:46<chillcore>robobot? what do you mean by 'new'? as in replaced in the last few days?
05:48<chillcore>but yeah does a neat job for what it is designed for
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06:01<chillcore>also phpBB has a standard option to dissallow signatures untill x post are made ... if spammers see that they think twice before even trying
06:01<chillcore>but owen does not like enabling mods much
06:02<chillcore>can't blame him ... takes maintenance often
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06:36<supermop_>anyone here used skrill?
06:36<supermop_>my client wants to use it to pay me
06:37<argoneus>B L O C K S I G N A L S
06:37<argoneus>supermop_: why?
06:37<argoneus>like if it's legit?
06:38<supermop_>i guess
06:38<supermop_>ive never heard of it
06:38<supermop_>name sounds kinda silly
06:39<chillcore>they are cool ;)
06:39<argoneus>supermop_: I've seen them used for some mmos
06:39<argoneus>and no one complained
06:39<chillcore>also minecraft
06:39<argoneus>they're wannabe paypal basically
06:39<argoneus>it's legit enough
06:39<chillcore>huhu
06:40<chillcore>that being said I do not use em to receive money
06:40<chillcore>only to pay for stuffs
06:41<chillcore>I charge y account with my anonymous bankcard
06:42<chillcore>which steam does no longer accept since they can't do their thing with it
06:42<chillcore>read: redraw
06:42<chillcore>anyhoo
06:43<supermop_>hmm
06:44<chillcore>if you register a banc account with steam they send some pennies and redraw them too
06:44<chillcore>my account does not allow sending without special code
06:44<chillcore>if you send me some moneyz without code the money bounces right back to you
06:46<chillcore>but yeah skrillex is ok
06:52<chillcore>and skrill too :P
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07:35<@Alberth>hola
07:37<frosch123>moin
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08:09<Samu>hi
08:10<Samu>i need help resolving a very peculiar situation
08:11<Samu>prospecting oil rigs on canals owned by competitors
08:11<Samu>or by random spawning on canals owned by competitors
08:12<Samu>the problem is: it fails to build an oil rig during clearance test, because the canal has a owned
08:12<Samu>owner*
08:12<Samu>how can i come up with a solution for this?
08:15<supermop_>sounds fine, i mean i don't want someone blocking my canals with rigs
08:16<Samu>it is funded via prospecting or random generating
08:16<Samu>foudning via fund brings up the error
08:16<Samu>unless the canal is already your
08:17<Samu>brb
08:18<Samu>alright, funding oil rig on my own canal -> allowed
08:18<Samu>funding oil rig on competitor canal -> not allowed
08:19<Samu>prospesting oil rig and if it ends on my own canal -> not allowed
08:19<Samu>there's the bug
08:20<Samu>prospecting vs random spawning, i'd like to separate the behaviour
08:22<Samu>the code says /* Prospected industries are build as OWNER_TOWN to not e.g. be build on owned land of the founder */
08:22<Samu>i wanted to add an exception for the case of those owned land are canals
08:24<supermop_>but what if it randomly spawns on a segment of my canals i wanted to keep free for something else
08:24<supermop_>then i have no way to remove it without cheating
08:24<Samu>then you don't prospect
08:24<supermop_>just like if i prospect a factory and it spawns in my owned land, i'd be pissed
08:25<supermop_>idk sounds like insufficient justification
08:25<supermop_>non-prospect building costs 10x as much
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08:26<@Alberth>but it fails less often :p
08:26<Samu>i'd like to separate the behaviour prospecting vs random spawning
08:26<Samu>if it's random spawning, then it's fine that it won't put on canals
08:26<Samu>but if I am prospecting
08:26<Samu>and it ends up on my canal
08:26<supermop_>i think i should have a reasonable expectation if i have a turning basin at the headwaters of my canal that no oil rig will spawn there
08:26<Samu>then why not allow it to happen?
08:27<supermop_>because the user expects oil rigs to appear at sea, not in the middle of their transport infrastructure
08:29<Samu>oil rig layout on its own, need quite a lot of water room, they won't block
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08:43<@Alberth>ie canals are not wide enough to ever have an oilrig?
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09:04<Samu>savegame with canals everywhwere for testing -> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!793&authkey=!AP9SB6DzugbOzTo&ithint=file%2csav
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09:25<andythenorth>o/
09:26<supermop_>hi andy
09:26<supermop_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146321#p1146321
09:27<chillcore>meow o/
09:28<supermop_>goodnight
09:28<chillcore>goodnight ;)
09:28<chillcore>and very nice
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09:44<Pikka>what what
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09:47-!-DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
09:47<DanMacK>Hey all
09:47<Pikka>hello dan
09:47<Pikka>you missed andy by about 60 seconds :)
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09:48<DanMacK>lmao of course I did, lol
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i wonder how they actually ever got to know of each other's existence
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's like this curse where one turns into an animal at day and the other at night. and the only time they can ever meet is during a solar eclipse
10:34<andythenorth>he’s Canadian
10:34<andythenorth>what can I say?
10:34<andythenorth>or Australian
10:34<andythenorth>who knows
10:38-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
10:38<andythenorth>cat report?
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>miau mio, miau mio.
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>[this is from a story where the kid plays with matches and burns to ashes]
10:41<andythenorth>too many bloody hg tags in FIRS
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>try CETS. exact opposite :p
10:42<andythenorth>can I safely delete hg tags?
10:42<andythenorth>o_O
10:42<andythenorth>let’s find out
10:43<@planetmaker>andythenorth, no!
10:44<@planetmaker>it won't work and just screw you8
10:44<chillcore>hmm I read that in a different way as intended ... :P
10:45<chillcore>nvm me
10:45<andythenorth>well
10:46<andythenorth>I did it following the instructions
10:46<andythenorth>so too late :P
10:46*andythenorth wonders what will go wrong
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11:18*andythenorth is some kind of empiricist :|
11:22<@Alberth>nothing wrong with that, isn't it?
11:23<andythenorth>depends which button you press
11:23-!-Plaete2 [~moffi@xd9bdbcde.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
11:24<andythenorth>and whether you break the repo
11:24<@Alberth>:(
11:25<andythenorth>and whether you keep a record of the result :P
11:26<@Alberth>it gets more real as you keep it longer?
11:27<@Alberth>s/keep/experience/
11:27<andythenorth>dunno yet :P
11:28<andythenorth>waiting for more data
11:28-!-Plaete [~moffi@x5f76746f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:30<@Alberth>does that exist? empiricism would see it as experiencing progress of time :)
11:38*andythenorth makes new FIRS
11:38<andythenorth>is that data?
11:40*andythenorth bbl
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12:56*andythenorth FIRS a bit
12:56<chillcore>you fixed it?
12:56<V453000>hm funny story
12:57<V453000>went from work 5 hours ago, rawr terrain tiles rendering is like at 20%
12:57<V453000>end of story
13:03<andythenorth>cool story
13:03<andythenorth>bro
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me, i should check the copying process i started two days ago...
13:04<chillcore>hehe
13:05<V453000>oh yeah I should start copying our disk at work
13:05<V453000>1.8tb :/
13:05<andythenorth>big
13:05<V453000>and the stupid server it is on, has speed like 7mbps or such
13:05<V453000>idk how long can that even take
13:06<chillcore>calc 1024 * 1.8 / 7
13:06<chillcore>@calc 1024 * 1.8 / 7
13:06<@DorpsGek>chillcore: 263.314285714
13:06<chillcore>long
13:06<V453000>XD
13:07<andythenorth>burn it to CD-ROM
13:09<@Alberth>andythenorth: would it be useful to say a few things about start/end years of FIRS economies?
13:09<@Alberth>docs don't seem to address that
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13:40<andythenorth>Alberth: perhaps :)
13:41<frosch123>why is all ldap documentation so terrible?
13:41<andythenorth>I think start / end years are a BAD FEATURE
13:41<frosch123>i feel like i have to look into the source :/
13:41<@Alberth>frosch123: :(
13:41<andythenorth>of the people I know who have tried ldap
13:41<andythenorth>all regretted the necessity
13:42<@Alberth>andy: perhaps
13:43<andythenorth>did you encounter broken chains?
13:43<andythenorth>or you just wanted info?
13:45<@Alberth>I just wanted to have an idea of when to start / end
13:45<@Alberth>ie I am talking about economies rather than industries
13:46<andythenorth>I could add a string here? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html
13:46<andythenorth>currently all economies are best started 1865 or so
13:47<@Alberth>adding a line there would be fine, imho
13:47<@Alberth>hmm, nuts doesn't start that early afaik
13:49<andythenorth>I recommend about 1900 or so for starting games
13:50<andythenorth>play 100 years
13:50<andythenorth>fin
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13:50<@Alberth>nuts is about 1920, so I'll take that
13:52<andythenorth>anyone playing Hog?
13:52-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:56<@Alberth>/me does very little with RVs
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13:57<andythenorth>they’re probably cheating tbh
13:57<andythenorth>no signals
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14:11*andythenorth needs to recode FIRS
14:11*andythenorth recodes FIRS
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14:17<@Alberth>:)
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14:21*andythenorth accidentally plays OTTD instead
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14:31<TrueBrain>poor andythenorth ...
14:31<TrueBrain>THINK ABOUT THE CATS
14:31<andythenorth>bloody cats
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14:33*andythenorth dislikes rivers
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14:38<titch>hello. wandering if could get some hwlp please
14:39<frosch123>something wrong with your left hand?
14:40<titch>yer. lol
14:40<frosch123>can't help with that
14:41<andythenorth>ha ha, ridiculous Iron Horse trains
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14:42<chillcore>titch: no help untill you ask your question(s)
14:42<chillcore>;)
14:43<titch>recently got 1.5 update and loadin up my ottd and its saying "the currently used base graphics set is missing a number of sprites. please update the base graphics set." im confused as to what this means. i have zbase as the graphics, does it mean that?
14:44<frosch123>yeah, apparently noone released an update :p
14:44<titch>oh, so all is ok then?
14:44<andythenorth>whoever wrote ‘Wagon removal’ for auto-replace did a nice job
14:44<andythenorth>keep finding nice working things
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14:45<frosch123>tkt
14:45<frosch123>jk
14:45<frosch123>titch: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146174#p1146174
14:45<frosch123>sorry, my right hand was broken :p
14:45-!-Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08ea6f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Yo.]
14:47<titch>:P
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14:49<andythenorth>who made Iron Horse?
14:49<andythenorth>it’s unrealistic
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14:51<frosch123>sounds like a good thing
14:51-!-titch [~oftc-webi@cpc15-cwma7-2-0-cust108.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
14:51<titch>so ive clicked the link, do i need to get all of the thing in that folder?
14:52-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-89-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<frosch123>only zbase-r257.zip
14:53<frosch123>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/zbuild/push/LATEST/readme.txt <- see section 3.2
14:53<titch>cool. then ill need to find where its file is and put it in there right?
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14:56<titch>dam internet -_-
14:56<chillcore>titch: do not put files in content download manualy
14:57<chillcore>see the readme for the correct loocation on your system
14:57<titch>ok.
14:57<chillcore>;)
14:57<titch>does the readme come with it
14:57<titch>found it
14:57<chillcore>it comes with openttd
14:57<chillcore>ok
14:57<frosch123>it's also written in the zbase readme linked above
14:58<chillcore>nice to know frosch. thank you
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15:00<titch>cheers
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15:18<wsirc_6942>hi
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15:20<wsirc_6942>How come you cant download zbase via new grf?
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15:26<Wolf01>hi hi
15:27<frosch123>yay, at least someone who is not going to ask about zbase :)
15:29<Supercheese>all zbase are belong to us
15:30<Wolf01>you should have a badge with "ask me about zbase"
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15:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's all about zbase, 'bout zbase
15:54<V453000>XD
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16:51<wsirc_6942>I wish it was .D:D
16:52<wsirc_6942>anyway how come you cant install 32bit directly ingame?
16:53<frosch123>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1428086596#1428086596 <- see the conversation bevore
16:53<frosch123>*before
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>a beevore feeds on solely on bees?
17:04<FLHerne>wsirc_6942: You can
17:04<FLHerne>wsirc_6942: It's not under newgrfs, because it isn't a newgrf
17:05<FLHerne>Use the more generic online content button on the main menu
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause>"higher mountains that you've ever seen before"? ... except for anybody who played a patchpack in the last 5 years
18:03<frosch123>thanks for volunteering to write the next news :)
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>if it were still april 1st, i'd say "sure."
18:10<frosch123>anyway, the news post does not address patchpack players
18:11-!-Celestar [~Celestar@p4FFB930B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
18:11<frosch123>no patchpack player noticed how broken mhl was
18:11<frosch123>it only took a few days of nightly to notice
18:11<frosch123>yet no nightly player noticed that ais were broken for non-english language
18:11<frosch123>it only took one day for stable players to notice
18:12<frosch123>that makes the news post address two magnitudes more people than patchpack players
18:12<frosch123>so, i think it's pretty accurate
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, ANY news is just horribly inaccurate if you are deep into the subject involved
18:15<frosch123>yup, that's why i was never at cebit :p
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18:42<larzconwell>I'm trying to make an armored vehicle "Go To" a gold mine, but I can't click anywhere at the gold mine to trigger the route
18:43<ST2>larzconwell: you need to build a truck station
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>you need to build a station
18:44<chillcore>hmm so strange ...
18:44<larzconwell>Ah yes thank you
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>make sure it's a truck station, not a bus station
18:44<ST2>\o/ I won the contest "i cna tpye 200 wodrs a mintue"
18:44<larzconwell>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah I did, got it working now
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18:49<chillcore>I fell asleep and was on a trip with *mumble* and *mumble*, there was this fair too, then someone I did not expect to see at all called my name and I woke up ...
18:49<chillcore>AIs are broken in my patchpack?
18:49<chillcore>XD
18:50<chillcore>it my third Ieye I guess ...
18:50<Supercheese>AIs are broken by many things
18:50<frosch123>chillcore: did noai exist back then?
18:51<chillcore>hmm yeah?
18:51<frosch123>noai exists since 2009/2010
18:51<chillcore>because my previous patchpack had the patch still
18:51<frosch123>no idea when chillin was a thing :p
18:51<chillcore>and I used my own AI all the time to build roads for me
18:51<frosch123>hmm, it was chillpp, not chillin, right?
18:51<chillcore>so yeah
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18:52<chillcore>frosh: ok ;)
18:53<chillcore>still half asleep ...
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: chillpp basically died during development of 1.2, when grfv8 was introduced
18:53<chillcore>I saw mhl mentioned ... must have been that
18:53<chillcore>nvm
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose noai was before 1.0
18:54<chillcore>yeah
18:54<frosch123>noai was 0.7 :p
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>chillpp was forked in the 1.0/1.1 era
18:56<chillcore>somewhen around that time ..; 1.0.5 savegames load
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. it couldn't load 1.1 savegames
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>which should have been a fairly easy fix, btw. just nobody ever looked into it
18:58<chillcore>I waited a few revisions to long maybe
18:59<chillcore>also there is a ton of things to change due to one of the commits
18:59<chillcore>+60000 lines of patchpack is not something you check in 30 mins
18:59<chillcore>+-
19:00<chillcore>hehe
19:01<chillcore>55329 to be exact
19:01<chillcore>maybe some day ...
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>that probably means never :p
19:02<Wolf01>'night
19:02-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:02<chillcore>it is not that I do not want to do so
19:02<frosch123>i guess we are saturated with pp currently :)
19:03<frosch123>i think there are at least 3
19:03<chillcore>I tried like 4 times
19:03<chillcore>and that
19:03<chillcore>peeps were just not doing it no more
19:03<chillcore>except a few
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's not about the amount of patchpacks...
19:04<frosch123>haha, yeah, the communityin was a big success :p
19:04<chillcore>yeah
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause>anyway. besides daylength, the most requested feature for patchpacks i see is 24h clock and timetable management (for the hardcore synchronous netowrk managers) and "fire and forget" type of autoseparation for everybody else
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>and all the patchpacks around totally fail at multiplayer
19:07<chillcore>yeah I guess those are the major request for now
19:07<frosch123>you forgot copy&paste :)
19:08<frosch123>template based autoreplace was my favorite, but then i switched to playing shorter games
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't come up that often...
19:08<Supercheese>a small but vocal subset also advocates custom bridgeheads
19:08<frosch123>so i haven't used autoreplace at all in quite some time
19:08<Supercheese>template autoreplace was quite nice
19:08<chillcore>indeed I kept forgetting I had copypaste in at all
19:09<chillcore>XD
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. someone should really review cirdan's patches, even if he refuses to cooperate...
19:09-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
19:09<chillcore>he said I could do it and get them in trunk no prob
19:09<chillcore>but that was then
19:09<frosch123>trunk is busy with other stuff :p
19:09<chillcore>yah fixing MHL ... grrr
19:10<frosch123>anyway, custom bridgeheads are only suggested by people who know them from ttdp
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>it feels like a lot of good work is wasted if it's not done
19:10<frosch123>they are no thing that anyone new comes up with
19:10<chillcore>true Eddi|zuHause
19:10<frosch123>copy&paste is far more common there
19:10<chillcore>brb nature calls
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i have never played custom bridgeheads in ttdp, and frequently think "i could build this better with cbh". especially for roads
19:11<frosch123>really?
19:11<frosch123>chillcore: it's more like everyone is filled up with keeping grfcodec, nml, opengfx and zbase alive
19:12<frosch123>i.e. just yesterday someone posted some fixes to ogfx on the forums
19:12<frosch123>ogfx is still not released
19:12<frosch123>and everybody is asking about zbase
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, like rail sunken 1 level in a city, with road bridges over it, but a road is running parallel to the tracks as well
19:12<frosch123>but before all of that, nml needs fixes to the packaing :p
19:12<Supercheese>signals in tunnels/bridges is also nice
19:12<frosch123>so, it's more like noone has time to work on ottd :p
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: always needs some weird curves around the bridge heads, where running straight across would look and behave better
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: i'm deeply opposed to that terrible implementation of signals on bridges/in tunnels that is floating around
19:15<Supercheese>I am not aware of the details, but the concept is desirable
19:15<Supercheese>long bridges/tunnels ruin signal spacing schemes
19:15<Supercheese>implementation may indeed be sorely lacking in finesse
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: yes, but that implementation doesn't even fix that...
19:15<chillcore>frosch: I totally understand and I am not pointing fingers, it is just that now you can add unplayabl terrain to that list
19:15<chillcore>sadly enough
19:16<chillcore>but again ... I understand
19:16<chillcore>no time to test and shizz
19:16<chillcore>stupid ISP of mine
19:16<chillcore>soryy
19:16<chillcore>sorry*
19:16<chillcore>ex-ISP
19:17<chillcore>I can help somewhere?
19:17<chillcore>not MHL I mean ...
19:17<chillcore>going to read back now
19:18<Samu>hi
19:18<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: "always" :p
19:19<frosch123>like only for short and flat bridges
19:19<frosch123>it's irrelevant the longer the bridges become
19:19<frosch123>and it does not affect sloped bridges at all
19:19<Samu>when i'm letting the game randomly create a new industry, it is not using the code at line 1889 of industry_cmd.cpp
19:19<frosch123>and as we all know, outside this channel noone plays on smaller than 1kx1k
19:19<Samu>it's using some other part of the code
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, "always" under the conditions stated above (plus 'better roads' layout)
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: for all we know, nobody in this channel plays at all :p
19:20<Samu>if (deity_prospect || (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && _current_company != OWNER_DEITY && _settings_game.construction.raw_industry_construction == 2 && indspec->IsRawIndustry())) {
19:20<frosch123>andy claims to :p
19:21<Samu>who's deity_prospect?
19:21<Samu>OWNER_DEITY
19:21<Samu>but, who's this?
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm, there was talk about a lunar eclipse... is that visible here?
19:21<frosch123>game scripts
19:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: lunar eclipses only happen at full moon
19:22<Samu>ah, i see
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>the moon was almost full last time i looked
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>and the solar eclipse was 2 weeks ago
19:23<frosch123>full moon was today 14:05
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>ah
19:24<frosch123>anyway, lunar eclipses happen about once a year
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>sure
19:24<frosch123>no relation to solar eclipses
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>so you see them every 2 years
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>since half of the time, it will be day
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>solar eclipses happen about as often
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>just they are only visible from very small areas
19:25<frosch123>are you sure?
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes
19:26<frosch123>partial eclipses are visible from a vast area
19:27<frosch123>"Im 21. Jahrhundert finden insgesamt 224 Sonnenfinsternisse statt. Dies sind gegenüber dem langjährigen Durchschnittswert von 238 Sonnenfinsternissen pro Jahrhundert relativ wenige."
19:27<frosch123>ok :)
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's an easy statistical thought experiment that eclipses during full moon and eclipses during new moon happen at about the same chance
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the "230" figure probably includes partial eclipses where no point on earth can see a full eclipse
19:32<frosch123>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Sonnenfinsternisse_des_21._Jahrhunderts#.C3.9Cbersicht
19:32<frosch123>if you add "total" and "ring", you get 140 proper ones
19:35<Samu>do you know of a script that has a OWNER_DEITY prospecting an industry?
19:35<Samu>citybuilder actually funds industries, not prospects them
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>so that basically confirms what i said. slightly more than one per year
19:42<chillcore>chunnels and programmable signals would be nice to have too
19:42<chillcore>and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals
19:42<chillcore>and then some
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>loads of things would be "nice to have"
19:42<frosch123>isn't the latter that weird coop signal setting?
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no, that is twoway_eol
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>or firstred_twoway_eol
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>or something
19:43<chillcore>no it is more like: if this signal is green turn that one on the other side of the map red
19:43<chillcore>without using rails
19:44<chillcore>very basic programming but much neater then the way it is done now
19:44<chillcore>prios and stuffs
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: "latter" == "the last one" [vs. "former" == "the first one"]
19:44<chillcore>huhu
19:45<chillcore>I made a booboo?
19:45<Eddi|zuHause><chillcore> and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals <-- question was about this line
19:45<chillcore>ok ...
19:46<chillcore>I ws not refering to that ... my bad
19:46<chillcore>please continue
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>[at least that was how i read it]
19:46<chillcore>I get it
19:46<chillcore>sorry for not being specific enough
19:47<chillcore>me grabs coffee xD
19:47<chillcore>such a weird dream ...
19:49<chillcore><Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals <-- question was about this line
19:51<chillcore>I find that trains considering the back of a one-way pbs signal a safe waiting point breaks my playstyle
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19:51<chillcore>I disable turning around at signals so I get deadlocks
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: only if trains get lost...
19:51<chillcore>also if there is no other route free at that moment
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: please isolate a situation where it happens and post a savegame to flyspray
19:52<chillcore>I may be able to find that FS ticket still
19:52<chillcore>and may create a savegame yes
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: the pathfinder should discard routes that involve a back of a one-way-signal [aka end of line], if there is a valid path.
19:56<chillcore>it may have changed ... I'll have a quick test
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: there are some valid situations where back of a one-way-signal should be treated as end of line. i remember discussions about allowing or disallowing this in the past, but i don't remebmer the outcome
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>especially there were discrepancy between behaviour of block signals and path signals
19:59<chillcore>I remember the talk ... some of it ... then I added that in my patchpâck and forgot about it
19:59<chillcore>when I load one of my old savegames trains are still waiting to never be allowed to advance because back of one-way
20:00<chillcore>but I'll test a new game ... first checking config to see if turn time is at 255
20:02<chillcore>wait time*
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: there is now a separate setting for "never turn around at signals"
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20:02<chillcore>hmm there is?
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>it should be in the GUI
20:03<chillcore>thank you
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>(at least that was the point of adding the setting)
20:03<chillcore>path_backoff_interval?
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: no
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20:04<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: that is the interval which a train waits before checking whether the signal is green again
20:04<chillcore>oh ok ... I'll check the gui Eddi|zuHause
20:05<chillcore>probably easier ... my congig has all kinds of non trunk settings
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>who are you telling that. my openttd always complains about invalid setting "weekly" for autosave interval :p
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>i even got a patch into trunk that fixed "use the default value instead of disabling the setting completely"
20:11<chillcore>hehe
20:12<chillcore>looking at flyspray now to find that ticket ... I had a minimal setup to reproduce the waiting forever thinghy
20:21<supermop>i wonder what the best way to make these tracks dingy would bee
20:21<supermop>im thinking ad a translucent surface over the concrete
20:27<chillcore>here it is Eddi|zuHause #FS3908
20:27<chillcore>testing now to see
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20:39<chillcore>tracks dingy? what is that exactly supermop?
20:39<supermop>dirty
20:40<chillcore>ah ok ... yeah layer maybe
20:40<supermop>like grime, oil, dirt around the concrete in bottom of platform bay
20:40<chillcore>the you can have more of them and combine ;)
20:40<chillcore>then*
20:40<supermop>trash and rats
20:40<chillcore>hehe
20:40<chillcore>animated rats I hope :P
20:40<supermop>i miss watching the subway rats
20:42<chillcore>we don't have subways here ... plenty of riverbeds though
20:43<chillcore>hmm riverbanks?
20:46<efess>is there a way to query if the game is currently paused with rcon/console?
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>river bed is the thing under the river :p
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>river bank is the thing on the side of the river :p
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>efess: sounds like something the admin port should be able to do?
20:48<efess>that would be even better :D
20:48<supermop>experimenting with what goes between two tracks in a station
20:49<chillcore>yeah then it is banks Eddi|zuHause, thank you
20:49<chillcore>supermop: a crocodile
20:49<supermop>in real life i normally just see flat concrete but that looks boring in renders
20:49<chillcore>and signal boxes
20:49<supermop>so thinking of gutter or raised area
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20:50<supermop>yes in the subway it is full of cable conduit, signals, etc
20:50<chillcore>indeed
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: sound-damping equipment?
20:50<supermop>what do you mean eddi?
20:50<supermop>like acoustical foam?
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: like i think in berlin main station (lower part) they have that
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: some square thingies with a riffled surface
20:51<supermop>founds fancy
20:51<supermop>maybe i'll wait until openttd townsfolk complain about the noise!
20:52<supermop>sometimes you see a fence to discourage people from running across tracks
20:52<supermop>but i've only seen that at low platforms in rural areas on with light rail
20:53<supermop>gutter has the same issue as TTD style monorail: the negative space at edge of tile
20:53<supermop>could have the gutter end in a tall drain grate at tile edge
20:53<supermop>but then you get too many drains
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>these are all things the original zoom levels can just fudge over :p
20:54<supermop>yes
20:55<supermop>and just a few pixels noise and let the imagination fill in!
20:55<supermop>the plain base set concrete tile would look fine as station rail bed in 1x zoom
20:56<supermop>the monorail still has me in a dilemma
20:57<supermop>there are few enough EZ monorail tracks out there i feel like i could get away with breaking the rules and do TTO style
20:57<supermop>but TTD style has its dubious benefits
20:58<supermop>in that it looks better with uniform platform heights, can have a monorail train be 'tall' without being too tall...
20:58-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:58<supermop>masking the negative tile edge will be a real pain though
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, imho monorail should be taller than normal rails, because the train is meant to "grab" around it, instead of running on top of it
20:59<supermop>TTO style would need offsets to be changed for existing trains if going to tto style
20:59<supermop>yes
20:59<supermop>irl a modern alweg beam is 1500mm tall
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, the transrapid track set fudges around it
21:00<supermop>plus clearance beneath
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>what's alweg?
21:00<supermop>modern monorails are about twice as tall as regular trains if you count the part below the train floor that goes around the beam
21:01<supermop>german company that invented the concrete beam monorail and was later bought by hitachi
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>most people underestimate the height of trains, because they think of them as from the platform up, or when inside from the floor to the roof
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21:02<supermop>they have a small version used in seattle, disney, and tokyo monorail line
21:02<supermop>but all newer ones since the 80s are very tall
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21:03<Eddi|zuHause>but there's a whole meter below that
21:03<supermop>http://www.monorails.org/webpix/Tama.jpg
21:03<supermop>look how high the doors are on that
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>so if the monorail is 1.5m below the platform, that is only like 0.5m more than a train
21:04<supermop>you've got more that 2500mm from bottom of vehicle before you even get to the floor
21:04<supermop>hmm
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: a train would probably reach to that yellow area on the sides
21:06<supermop>i've compromised and done 800mm from railhead to platform in these stations so far
21:06<supermop>becuase it looked more 'right'
21:06<supermop>but many systems around the world are 1100-1300 mm
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes. suburban trains often use higher platform height
21:07<supermop>i could sink the regular rails down a bit more
21:07<supermop>then the difference between rail and monorail would be less severe
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>where older train systems might even use 30cm
21:08<supermop>in the us it is sometmes 0 on amtrack in rural areas
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i would maybe shrink the monorails a bit
21:08<supermop>and then set little step stools outside the doors
21:09<supermop>the station is just an asphalt tramway area with lines painted
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>i know here in the region they had difficulties buying new trains and make them "barrier free", because besides the standardized 76cm they also have platforms of ca. 55cm and 35cm
21:09<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i would but i cant control how others may or may not draw their monorails
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>and it has to be barrier free on all of them
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: don't care about others. make it look decent with the default trains, and you should be fine
21:10<supermop>yes its is a problem in the us as all new transit must be ADA compatible - means wheelchair accessable
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>i think they settled on entrances at the 55cm height, with some metal plate that can stick out and raise/lower to 35 and 76
21:11<supermop>chicago is scrapping loads of fairly good 80's L cars because they have a center pillar in the doors which cannot be removed structurally
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>to close the gap
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>but these things are notoriously unreliable and cause delays
21:12<supermop>yes you see in suburban amtrak and commuter stations a metal bridge that station staff use in areas where they can not yet afford to build new platforms and buy new cars
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>in Stuttgart they ordered similar trains, but they had to withdraw them again, because their incredibly tight schedule just didn't hold up
21:12<supermop>and in rural areas they must use a portable lft
21:13<supermop>lift
21:13<supermop>well i am already cheating drawing my stations at 8m per tile
21:13<Flygon_>Scrap? Why not sell them to some other metro system?
21:13-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
21:14<Flygon>Knowing Melbourne, we would probably somehow turn them into DMU HSTs :B
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: electric trains with 160km/h top speed?
21:15<Flygon>Diesel trains with a nominal 160km/h top speed
21:15<supermop>if most people draw trains at 12m per tile, then the monorail gets some cheating help
21:15<Flygon>But, like
21:15<Flygon>Everything here has 20% lobbed of it's actual top speed :U
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: my trains are based on 32m per tile scale
21:15<supermop>as i can draw a trench 1600mm deep and it is 2400mm deep for more standard trains
21:16<supermop>just enough to fit a monorail bogie?
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: well, over here, trains are tested with 10% above top speed
21:16<Flygon>Eddi: It's... well, a really weird situation, across the entire country
21:16<supermop>Flygon: the L cars are probably too specific to find a buyer for
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: schedukes are probably done with slightly lower speed
21:17<supermop>third rail short cars with odd loading gauge due to tight corners
21:17<Flygon>The VLocity DMUs have been (unofficially) tested around 220-230km/h (albiet, at that speed, they vibrated a bit TOO much, and other anectdotal evidence suggests it was a very unnerving ride. But this is all second hand reports, here, so, use a lot of salt)
21:17<Flygon>supermop: Okay, I see the issue...
21:17<Flygon>But they're only suppose to run 160km/h anyway, as the official speed limit...
21:17<supermop>same reason NYC dumps its old cars into the ocean
21:18<Flygon>Except they're totally allowed a 177km/h overspeed (10% overspeed, who'da thunk?)
21:18<Flygon>But the big wallbanger is
21:18<supermop>they would need such a specific buyer, and so much work, that it is not worth the MTA's time
21:18<Flygon>Is that the near-identical current DMU TransWA Prospector sets are designed to go 200km/h in future
21:19<Flygon>Which... collaborates perfectly with the 10% theoretical overspeed... which's exactly what the 220-230km/h VLocity tests stick to
21:19<supermop>also many cars on the subway being scrapped now are 50 or so years old, so not many systems out there have similar stock anymore
21:19<Flygon>So, all in all. The speed limits regarding the VLocity DMUs and derivatives is a cluster... bork
21:19<Flygon>I don't feel like using the f-word here. You're all too civilized
21:20<supermop>the DMUs in melbourne don't go that far away, why not electrify it all
21:20<Flygon>supermop: I am mildly surprised there hasn't been any serious attempt to create a 100% standardized subway EMU for the North American subway...
21:20<supermop>there was
21:20<Flygon>But I do suppose the loading gauge problem is just too insane x.x
21:20<Flygon>There was??
21:20<Flygon>Yeah, I mean, Victoria's bloody tiny
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood this anglosaxon obsession with bleeping "f-words"
21:21<Flygon>Y'know what I reckon? Just electrictrify all of V/Line's current passenger lines (including Swan Hill)
21:21<supermop>sure, similar to PCC with streetcars
21:21<supermop>eddi is not from saxony
21:21<Flygon>And cascade the DMUs down to other lines as they're electrified while keeping the pace with 200-250km/h EMUs...
21:21<Flygon>Though
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>actually... :p
21:21<Flygon>This assumes we'd be willing to also spend the money on bringing the track up to RFR or HST standard too, while duplicating :U
21:22<Flygon>It's actually kinda funny/silly...
21:22<Flygon>My friend and I looked into how expensive it would be to turn the Melbourne-Adelaide line into a HST route (cheapest intercapital route in Australia)
21:22<supermop>the least restrictive subways lines in the us are built to standard loading guage
21:22<Flygon>It really wasn't too much. Even cheaper if we used pre-owned N700's from Japan. :U
21:22<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: technically, the modern day "saxon" people are not very closely related to the "saxon" people that invaded britain so many hundred years ago
21:22<Flygon>supermop: Huh O_o
21:23<Flygon>But, like....
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: the "ethnical" saxons moved westwards from the german region now called "lower saxony"
21:23<Flygon>Lines like the Ballarat line.... could very much be operated with Shinkansen EMUs, simply because there isn't that many stations for the length of line
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>whereas the name "saxony" moved eastwards with the noble people that ruled the country
21:24<supermop>and all of the subway's 70s and 80s cars, both american and built in japan, as well as long island railroad and metro north EMUs from that era have essentially the same body
21:24<Flygon>It's when you start hitting Bacchus Marsh or Melton that you'll want seperate EMUs for urban travel (to account for Rockbank, Deer Park, Ardeer, and the future Toolern station)
21:24<supermop>heh
21:25<supermop>well anglos are just seriously lapsed germanic tribes far enough back
21:25<Eddi|zuHause>anglos were a danish tribe, where saxons were a german tribe
21:26<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, im more of the second kind of "saxon" than the first kind :p
21:26<Flygon>I'm Australian. So, like
21:26<Flygon>Who gives a fuck, I'm 905% criminal anyway :D
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>but anyway, i have never seen this bleeping of swearwords outside of english speaking countries
21:27<supermop>yes, but modern colloquial english anglo (as opposed to 'angle') means all of the british colonial white people, traditionally not counting celctic peoples
21:27<Flygon>Eddi: Probably because other countries have such cool swear words
21:27<Flygon>I mean, it's just so much fun to screan PERRRRRRRRRRRKELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
21:27<Flygon>scream, even
21:27<supermop>but today in the us it often means all english speaking white people
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: can't be. because we properly adopted "fuck" into our pool of swearwords
21:28<Flygon>Eddi: Only because of crime nior films!
21:28<Flygon>noir?
21:28<supermop>even those who are scottish, irish, or scandinavian
21:28<Flygon>Fuck
21:28<Flygon>:D
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>the german word "ficken" was never used outside of describing the sexual act
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>it never became this universally applicable swearword
21:29<supermop>as was traditionally old english 'fuck'
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>whereas "fuck" is never used to mean sexually :p
21:30<supermop>as someone who is ethnically swedish and scottish, i am still considered an 'anglo' in the US
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: because US-people are universally known for their cultural differentiations?
21:31<supermop>it depends
21:32<supermop>who you are talking about and in what context
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21:33<Eddi|zuHause>there's this german comedian who used to tell this bit: "i performed in New York, and after a show, this girl 'Tiffany' approached me, and asked: 'Hey, why do you have so many different languages in europe?' -- what do you answer to such a sophisticated question?"
21:33<supermop>but in terms of discussing privilege and inequality, it makes sense to lump the once poor celtic and scandinavian immigrants in with the old rich english and dutch settlers, as they all are much more priveledged today than Asian, Black, or Hispanic peoples
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>"i answered: because 70 years ago we lost the war!!"
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>"she answered: that is so sad."
21:34<supermop>haha
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21:36<supermop>likewise even though 4th generation Japanese families are likely wealthy and americanized, they may face similar difficulties as a poor refugee family from Laos in some areas, where in other areas they may enjoy privilege
21:37<supermop>lots of people are racist until you explicity teach them not to be
21:37<Flygon>Wait
21:37<Flygon>So supermop is a blend of Swedish and Scottish
21:38<+glx>a blond scottish ?
21:38<Flygon>:D:D
21:38<Eddi|zuHause>... and is a US-ian, and lives in australia?
21:38<supermop>according to DNA yes but i speak almost no swedish, and i do not identify with scotts at all
21:38<Flygon>glx: Thanks for that mental image
21:38<Flygon>Now I think supermop's brother is a Magic Dog called Jake
21:39<Eddi|zuHause>in german we have this expression: "Alter Schwede!" [old swede], when something unexpected/incredible happens
21:40<supermop>i don't derive special pride from the us either, but i cannot deny that it shapes my identity
21:40<supermop>haha
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure how or why that developed
21:41<supermop>swedes may live long now
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>most other things involving sweden originate in the 30 years war
21:41<supermop>but 100 years ago many were hard living, hard drinking
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>where the swedes are described as particularly brutal
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>that's 400 years ago
21:43<Eddi|zuHause>there's this torture technique called a "swedish drink", which involves a boot and animal excrement...
21:43<supermop>haha
21:44<Eddi|zuHause>[which is shoved down someone's throat]
21:45<Eddi|zuHause>although, since the other parties in the 30 years war weren't exactly known for their humanitarian ambitions, this technique was probably not originating from the swedes at all
21:47<supermop>i was just telling my fiance today about how my grampa, who grew up in swedish town in minnesota in 1910s-20s was surrounded by alchoholic laborers so was put off the the idea of ever drinking himself
21:47<supermop>and never had a drink in his 96 years, not even when in combat in the Philippines
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>basically, it was the 17th century version of "waterboarding"
21:49<supermop>sweden was not that progessive in the 19th C as it was in the 20th, so i believe it
21:50<supermop>in the 17th C im sure it was still a bit of the vking mentality
21:51<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
21:51<supermop>after all, all the farmers who moved to the US wanted to leave for a reason
21:53<supermop>off to the store more monorail and platform discussion later
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>this was about monorail? :p
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23:14<supermop>yo
23:14<supermop>just ate cheese off a board shaped like ohio
23:18<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know the shape of ohio
23:19<Eddi|zuHause>don't 80% of the american states have an almost rectangular shape, and then some ragged edge?
23:29<Flygon>Dude
23:30<Flygon>Duuuuuude
23:30<Flygon>The US has like
23:30<Flygon>Too many states
23:30<Eddi|zuHause>i just realized this: when i made my joke earlier about "all about zbase", i should have mentiond that it works better if "z" is spoken as "zet" [BE] instead of "zee" [AE]
23:32<Eddi|zuHause>(another thing about america i don't understand. why use "zee" when it's so easily confused with "cee"
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23:39<supermop>i dont think z is used that commonly in american english for it to be an issue
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23:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, often enough in american tv shows that i noticed it.
23:48<Eddi|zuHause>also, it took me some time to actually understand what they said
23:50<Eddi|zuHause>one of the interesting bits about this was when i started to watch stargate atlantis in english. because there the canadian guy said "zet" and the others "zee" [this distinction got totally lost in the translation]
23:52<supermop>haha
23:53<supermop>yeah americans find it funny that more 'english' people say zed
23:53*Flygon scratches head
23:53<supermop>i can imagine how this would not translate
23:53<Flygon>Is it sad that I find it hard to hear the difference between t and d when it's not at the start of the word?
23:53<Flygon>The sounds mush together easily
23:54<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that is not weird at all
23:54<Flygon>Ah, goodie
23:54<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: like for japanese people the sounds of "r" and "l" kinda merge
23:54<Flygon>The sounds don't merge per-say
23:55<Flygon>It's just that the way of writing it in Romanji is extremely bloody stupid
23:55<Flygon>It's not an r sound, it's not an l sound
23:55<Eddi|zuHause>because the japanese phonology only has a sound that is halfway inbetween both
23:55<Flygon>It IS the rl sound
23:55<Flygon>The Japanese r sound sounds like when you say Karl
23:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes. try teaching germans how to pronounce a th :p
23:56<Eddi|zuHause>i have writing from my early english lessons, where i wrote "dis" instead of "this"
23:57<Eddi|zuHause>because that's how everybody spoke it
23:57<Eddi|zuHause>[this was in 5th grade]
---Logclosed Sat Apr 04 00:00:19 2015