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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-04

---Logopened Sat Apr 04 00:00:19 2015
00:01<supermop>bring back the thorn character
00:02<supermop>stupid to approximate the sound with either d or th because early printers were too cheap to get a custom non-latin character made for their presses
00:04<supermop>maybe best way to get around the 4x z tile edge issue is to make nothing flat
00:05<supermop>like no surfaces at zero height
00:05<Eddi|zuHause>strange how the germans managed to keep so many more "odd" characters around in that time. like two differently shaped "s", dots around "äöü", ligatures for "st", "ck" and "sz" [or "ss"]. and all that in two different typesets [fractured and antiqua]
00:05<supermop>i think english printers were just really cheap
00:05<supermop>and couldn't be bothered to buy the fancy characters
00:06<supermop>thats where we got w
00:06<supermop>just stick two vs or two us to make a wynn
00:07<supermop>the worst are the guys who just used a Y for thorn instead of th
00:07<Eddi|zuHause>how do english people manage to call that "doubleyoo"? isn't that really cumbersome to speak outloud?
00:08<supermop>eddi yes, easier for us that double v though
00:08<supermop>wynn would of course be much easier to say
00:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's much easier in german...
00:09<supermop>now we have people thinking Ye was an old word for the, instead of second person pronoun because cheap printers used Y instead of thorn
00:09<Eddi|zuHause>the only letter in german that has a weird name is "y". but that only ever appears in foreign words
00:09<supermop>how do you say Q?
00:10<Eddi|zuHause>either greek or english
00:10<Eddi|zuHause>Q is spoken like "Kuh" [cow]
00:11<supermop>if i make all of the flat surfaces at say 50-100 mm instead of zero,
00:11<supermop>then the pixel edge can eat into the side a bit
00:11<supermop>and the top edge can stay smooth
00:12<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: then you have trouble fitting with landscape from other places?
00:12<supermop>but what if its drawn as being 50mm tall, protruding up?
00:12<Eddi|zuHause>what?
00:12<supermop>so a tile of flat concrete looks like a 50mm thick concrete slab
00:13<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence makes exactly 0 sense
00:13<supermop>have a slab of some thickness above the groundsprite
00:13<Eddi|zuHause>what's that supposed to solve?
00:14<Eddi|zuHause>industries or houses that are not from your set will look sunken into the ground
00:14<supermop>where a bunch of these slabs fit together they hide their serrated edge down in the crack
00:15<supermop>but only by 1-2 px?
00:15<Eddi|zuHause>1.2px is enough to annoy people
00:15<supermop>dirt and grass could still be at 0 height
00:16<Eddi|zuHause>how does that solve a monorail ditch dug into grass?
00:16<supermop>man the monorail ditch is a whole other problem
00:16<supermop>but shallow ditches like gutters may work
00:16<Eddi|zuHause>so. what is this problem then?
00:17<Eddi|zuHause>no, what i think you need to be looking at is that when you dig out stuff from a base tile, you need to add the bits that would be on the next tile to this tile
00:17<Eddi|zuHause>as long as the tile repeats itself, it will look seamless
00:18<supermop>to give the concrete beneath the rails some detail, i have to give it a thickness of 50mm to cut into
00:18<supermop>but now i need to use a mask to hide that thickness at tile edge
00:18<supermop>or have a small scale version of the monorail problem for each channel cut
00:19<Eddi|zuHause>when rendering, assume the tile is repeated endlessly, and make sharp edges by advanced cuttery
00:19<supermop>i guess if there is a recessed channel, i could extend it beyond the tile edge then crop it off
00:19<supermop>yeah
00:20<Eddi|zuHause>then hope it doesn't look too bad in curves and stuff
00:20<supermop>also i can assume the monorail wont turn in stations (yet) so the repeat only has to account for straight stretches
00:21<supermop>hopefully by the time we get curved stations we can have curved stations on curved bridges, so we can finally stop digging 2m deep trenches for out monorails
00:22<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see how that would help :p
00:23<supermop>hopefully on a bridge we dont need to did the stupid trench!
00:30<Eddi|zuHause>a) yes. a bridge is basically a ground tile raised by 8px, and b) you can't force people to build their stuff on bridges
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00:36<supermop>sigh
00:37<supermop>monorail should be cheaper to build on a bridge than on/in the ground
00:37<supermop>that was one of the selling points of the original systems - easier to elevate than rail
00:37<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can adjust bridge costs based on railtype
00:37<supermop>im sure you cannot
00:38<supermop>nor do i think you can do like in TTO and give monorail its own bridge type, that regular rail cannot access (which presumably could be quite cheap)
00:39<supermop>real monorails occasionally use 'regular' bridges too when they must span long distances
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>what may actually help you is a "height offset" parameter, so vehicles are drawn at a different elevation
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>[but then you still have that platform heigt problem)
00:41<supermop>there is a spot on the narita express coming in to tokyo through Chiba from the airport, where the rails run beneath the chiba suspended monorail for a stretch
00:42<supermop>eddi yeah i pondered that
00:42<supermop>do the tall platforms look worse that the trenches....?
00:43<Eddi|zuHause>no, but you can't adjust platform height based on railtype
00:43<supermop>sadly there is no spot where the suspended monorail hangs from the bottom of a rail bridge
00:43<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: the default station changes sprites based on rail type
00:43<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe you can, but other people won't do that
00:43<supermop>in ogfx
00:44<supermop>well that's what i was wondering... if i suddenly decided to make rail completely different in size, i'd run into problems with every other set out there
00:45<supermop>but there are so few monorail graphics out there... could i get away with it
00:45<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i once thought about elevation levels being a solution to subways etc. in lieu of actual flexible tunnels/bridges.
00:46<Eddi|zuHause>but it still has a few flaws, like connector pieces between subway, tramway and elevated rails
00:46<supermop>yeah
00:47<supermop>and in some cities elevateds are built with small gauges and light vehicles like a tramway, in some cities they are heavy rail just like regular trains
00:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can easily make that distinciton by providing the vehicles as tram or as trains.
00:49<supermop>then do you also have subterranean tram and rail? i guess that could work
00:49<supermop>in Boston the Green line is a subway in the city but is basically trams, whereas the red line is heavy rail
00:51<Eddi|zuHause>i think most subways in germany operate under the [less strict] tramway law
00:52<Eddi|zuHause>but not all trains that go underground are subways
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00:57<supermop>yes it varies line by line
00:58<supermop>here's what i have so far for concrete slabs:
00:58<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146365#p1146365
01:02<Eddi|zuHause>in germany, we also now have trains that operate either under railway law or under tramway law depending on which section of track they happen to be on right now
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>i would probably skip the shadows...
01:06<supermop>i may have to
01:07<supermop>as it will be easiest to render base, platform, and shelter as separate sprites
01:07<supermop>adding shadows to the sprite with alpha probably will not look good
01:11<supermop>how long are your 32m/tile trains? one tile?
01:12<supermop>hmm i wonder if it would be too insane to model the clips holding the rail
01:29<supermop>maybe just a little rectangle
01:49<@Terkhen>hello
01:59<supermop>hi
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03:26<supermop>big day in the ant community on my terrace
03:27<supermop>drones and new queens from two hills getting ready for flight
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03:40<andythenorth>coffee cat
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03:56<supermop>these guys seem to require a pretty big ground crew
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04:07<chillcore>good morning o/
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04:08-!-Muxy is "Benoit" on #openttd @+#openttd.fr @+#goulp
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04:10<supermop>yo
04:10<chillcore>hello supermop
04:12<supermop>hows it going?
04:13<chillcore>fine fine thanks for asking
04:13<chillcore>and you yourself?
04:15<chillcore>adjusting my tgen light patch a bit
04:15<chillcore>adjusting comments
04:15<chillcore>making the optional parts not optional
04:16<chillcore>calling it final
04:16<supermop>nice
04:16<supermop>im playing my first ever TAI game
04:16<chillcore>if only I knew what that meant
04:16<chillcore>xD
04:20<supermop>pikka's town and industry set
04:20<chillcore>ah yes that one ... rice fields
04:20<chillcore>IIRC
04:21<chillcore>looked pretty sweat ... but I was stuck on George's stuffs and later FIRS
04:22<chillcore>also coding more as playing so never got to really test it
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04:27<chillcore>maybe I will just do the gui version on top of the light version ...
04:27<chillcore>not keep them seperate
04:27<chillcore>1.6 is a year away ... got time
04:27<chillcore>coffee ...
04:33<chillcore>damned ic111
04:33<chillcore>butt ugly terrain in trunk and it will come down on me
04:33<chillcore>I did the tuning not he
04:34<chillcore>and he knew very well that it was like that
04:34<chillcore>I'll just point to my patchpack ... there is my tuning
04:34<chillcore>he just was to lazy to implement
04:34<chillcore>cause yeah
04:35<chillcore>I don't blame devs
04:35<chillcore>I do blame him
04:35<chillcore>for allowing this to happen
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04:35-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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04:37<chillcore>morning Alberth o/
04:37<@Alberth>mornink
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04:49*chillcore plays minecraft
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04:52<@Alberth>/me plays code-refactoring
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04:55<chillcore>hehe that is a nice game too
04:55<chillcore>what are you working on?
04:56<chillcore>just curious ...
04:56<chillcore>I am going to play that game too in a bit but no much good will come from it right now so ...
04:57<chillcore>hack and slash in the gui version
04:58<@Alberth>handling mouse interaction for a construction window (build path, coaster, or terraform) in freerct is way too complicated to code currently
04:59<chillcore>nice
04:59<@Alberth>you have the window, the viewport, and a common coordination object, sending messages between them
05:00<@Alberth>it's a nightmare to build or even understand a year later
05:00<@Alberth>so I am trying to simplify it, by taking a lot of crap out :)
05:00<chillcore>xD
05:01<chillcore>ghosts 'n goblins style ... :P
05:02<@Alberth>pretty much everything is being moved to the construction window, where the window manager handles communication and handling of mouse things
05:02<chillcore>hmm I should update the checkout I have here to see where you are at
05:02<@Alberth>it mostly eliminates the coordination thingie
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05:03<chillcore>have you changed the clone location over the past years?
05:03<@Alberth>googlecode is dead, so yeah :p
05:03<chillcore>mind giving me it?
05:03<chillcore>google is blacklisted here
05:03<@Alberth>working on that one :p
05:04<@Alberth>ah, GH too?
05:04<chillcore>no hg should work I guess
05:04<@Alberth>https://github.com/FreeRCT/FreeRCT
05:04<chillcore>that works. thank you
05:04<@Alberth>pull mostly works, push fails in all sorts of interesting ways :p
05:05<chillcore>hehe
05:05<@Alberth>so I switched to git for freerct
05:06<chillcore>git gives some benifits over HG yes
05:06<chillcore>less faffing around with history
05:07<chillcore>if it is better is in the eye of the beholder
05:08<@Alberth>the basic idea is quite nice, and it gives strong guides on how to do things, which is probably useful for the general audience
05:08<chillcore>let's see if I can find a nice git gui that does not crash on me
05:08<@Alberth>I haven't found one that classifies as "nice" :p
05:09<@Alberth>but the entire rebase stuff still feels very complicated
05:09<chillcore>the ones I tried on linux occasionally crashed on me
05:09<chillcore>rebase ... I never needed that
05:10<chillcore>you keep a main branch and braches for your WIPs
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05:10<@Alberth>and you merge branches?
05:10<chillcore>then you make another branch (copy of main) for testing and merge there
05:10<chillcore>yes
05:11<@Alberth>ah, very non-git-ish :)
05:11<chillcore>yes
05:11<chillcore>but you can keep working on each feature untill happy
05:11<@Alberth>oh, git does do branching like you do
05:11<chillcore>indeed ;)
05:12<chillcore>unmerging is a bitch
05:12<@Alberth>but they only merge if there are no conflicts
05:12<chillcore>would not recommended it
05:12<@Alberth>unmerging?
05:12<chillcore>you can fix merges in your copy of main
05:12<chillcore>ye it is not like HG where you just pop a patch
05:13<chillcore>eg. main is at r1000
05:13<chillcore>you try r1001 and are not happy so you go back to 1000 and forget about r 1001
05:13<chillcore>bit of a workaround
05:14<chillcore>r1001 being a merge with one of the braches
05:14<@Alberth>ah, right
05:14<@Alberth>git-style would do a rebase of the branch to r1000
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05:14<@Alberth>so you fix the merge problems in the branch
05:14<chillcore>no ...
05:15<Wolf01>hi o/
05:15<chillcore>branch is just keep going
05:15<@Alberth>then you can ff-merge the branch into the main
05:15<chillcore>you merge in main or copy thereof
05:15<chillcore>hmm hw do I explain this properly ...
05:15<@Alberth>hi sir W
05:15<chillcore>hi wolf
05:15<chillcore>see it as a forest
05:16<chillcore>the trees stay trees
05:16<chillcore>but there is this one tree in the middle where branches touch
05:16<chillcore>the small trees keep growing
05:16<chillcore>seperatly
05:17<@Alberth>/me nods
05:17<chillcore>higher up another branch touches the 'magic' tree
05:17<chillcore>but is your not happy wit that you cut the top off
05:18<chillcore>makes sense?
05:18<@Alberth>yes
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05:18<@Alberth>so how do you fix that situation?
05:18<chillcore>if there is a merge at r 1001 you just chekout r1000
05:18<chillcore>the merge goes away
05:19<chillcore>but you still have the small trees so nothing lost
05:19<chillcore>only that one merge
05:19<chillcore>as in r1001 goes into the trash
05:20<chillcore>and you try again
05:20<chillcore>or work some more on one of the smaller branches first before you do
05:21<chillcore>but this is me pulling trunk ... the magic tree I have no access to
05:21<chillcore>kinda
05:22<chillcore>you'd need a seperate remote location and work on clone I guess
05:22<chillcore>when your are happy with your clone
05:23<chillcore>you take the tree that was merged entirely and push it to the remote
05:23<chillcore>see you still have it
05:23<chillcore>it is only the main clone that has the merging
05:24<chillcore>to see if things work out
05:24<chillcore>but again this is suitable for patchers like me
05:25<chillcore>which I do not care much about the since I can not change it
05:25<chillcore>I do care ... because it influences my future merges
05:26<chillcore>you'd have to change role a bit ...
05:27<chillcore>Alberth the main dev and Alberth the patcher
05:27<chillcore>both
05:27<chillcore>still makes sense?
05:27<@Alberth>I am having too many conversations currently :)
05:28<chillcore>ok no prob ... maybe I can show you later
05:28<chillcore>going to clone ;)
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05:55<@Alberth>chillcore: ah, right, yes that's a tricky part
05:55<chillcore>yeah ...
05:55<@Alberth>I find it really hard to decide whether a given patch is useful :(
05:56<chillcore>I understand that
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05:57<chillcore>I did a few patchpacks like that ... and deciding if I should keep something in now or merge it later is a bitch
05:57<chillcore>you do not want to go back 200 revisions and redo the mergin part
06:00<chillcore>Also I had no remote to take care of ...
06:00<chillcore>hmm ...
06:01<@Alberth>with trunk it's easier in a sense, you either never merge, or do merge it for eternity :)
06:01<chillcore>true
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06:02<chillcore>Alberth: it does not build for me can't find lex/flex in repo
06:03<chillcore>I'll have a bit f a search in a bit
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06:04<@Alberth>hmm, it doesn't fall back on pre-generated files?
06:06<chillcore>make finds not targets ... cmake needs options it seems
06:06<frosch123>chillcore: maybe look for "bison"
06:06<frosch123>sometimes flex is part of the bison packet
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06:07<chillcore>already newest ... hmm
06:07<chillcore>must be something silly I am missing here
06:07<@Alberth>lex/flex is a program
06:08<chillcore>can not find
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06:08<chillcore>maybe time to upgrade to debian itself ...
06:08<@Alberth>flex-2.5.37-7.fc21.x86_64 <-- the name of the flex package at my fedora
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06:08<chillcore>instead of mint debian that is
06:09<chillcore>I'll search for it in synaptic ...
06:09<frosch123>it's named "flex" there :p
06:10<frosch123>"apt-get install flex" should just work
06:10<@Alberth>and you need 'bison' too
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06:10<chillcore>frosch: it sais not found
06:11<chillcore>Alberth: got that installed
06:11<@Alberth>silly mint :p
06:11<chillcore>hehe
06:11<frosch123>what? it has bison but not flex?
06:11<chillcore>yep
06:11<@Alberth>maybe it's called 'lex' ?
06:11<chillcore>same result
06:12<chillcore>i'll figure it out
06:12<chillcore>if I have to I'll get it manually
06:12<chillcore>Yay linux
06:12<@Alberth>which flex doesn't give you a path?
06:12<chillcore>E: Kan pakket lex niet vinden
06:13<@Alberth>ieks :p
06:13<chillcore>hehe
06:13<@Alberth>gnu.org should have sources :p
06:13<chillcore>exactly what I was thinking XD
06:14<chillcore>stuff like this does not happen often but yeah
06:14<@Alberth>you may want to talk to LordAro about cmake not properly handling lack of the scanner generator
06:15<frosch123>http://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/flex <- also just says "flex" :p
06:15<@Alberth>don't know if you can give options to cmake
06:15<chillcore>eg. IRC client auto-connected to mint channel each time, untill I said straight up "look guys I do not want to be here help me undo this"
06:15<chillcore>lol
06:15<@Alberth>hehe :)
06:16<chillcore>well intended no doubt but yeah
06:16<@Alberth>can be quite useful for new users
06:16<chillcore>yes
06:17<@Alberth>you can say in the forum "fire up the blah program, and we can give you a hand"
06:19<chillcore>huhu ... mind you I was polite and they helped me real quick
06:20<@Alberth>nice bunch of chaps :)
06:21<chillcore>True Clem and co are a nice bunch ... and I am very happy with Mint
06:21<chillcore>just some minor details ... but can't have it all unless you do it yourself I guess
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06:22<chillcore>anyhoo I'll have a look in a bit ... the docs are quite clear and I maneged to run it before so ...
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06:24<chillcore>strangely enough in synaptic flex is marked as installed ... woohoo mysteries to solve
06:24<chillcore>Who needs games :P
06:26<@Alberth>:)
06:28<chillcore>aha ... no sdl2
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06:37<supermop>nowdays in rail yards and along track, you often see precast modular concrete conduits for carrying wires etc
06:37<supermop>where the top lifts of for access
06:37<supermop>was there anything similar in earlier times?
06:38<supermop>something older looking running along in the gravel?
06:41<@Alberth>I remember metal wires along the track that moved for changing track direction, they were above ground, 20/30 cm or so
06:47<supermop>hmm
06:48<supermop>i want something to take up some visual room along tracks in the stations - for modern tracks it is easy but for older ones I have no idea
06:48<supermop>i tried a terracotta drainage gutter, but i have no idea if those were ever used
06:50<@Alberth>you'd hope the rock-bed would have adequate drainage :)
06:51<@Alberth>but reality doesn't matter much, just use what you think looks good
06:51<@Alberth>just a foot-path perhaps?
06:54<supermop>hmm yeah
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07:03<@Alberth>water-supply (toilets)?
07:04<chillcore>signal houses
07:04<chillcore>speed signs
07:06<chillcore>also for older ones ... toilet paper and content :P
07:07<chillcore>kidding
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07:57<Wolf01>downloaded 185MB patch from blizzard in 8 seconds... what kind of sorcery they use?
07:58<Wolf01>(my real dl speed is 450-500KB/s)
07:58<@Alberth>they sneakily uploaded it already last night? :)
07:59<Wolf01>also with diablo 3, the dl speed was like 1.25MB/s
08:00<@Alberth>they multiply patch size by a 100 or so, for impressive upload speeds?
08:01<Wolf01>it might be
08:02<@Alberth>or like fedora, patches are big, but they only send changes wrt an already available version?
08:03<Wolf01>or it's like pifs... the data is already there, just figure out in which point it is :P
08:04<Wolf01>so it's 185MB only if you don't have anything but 1.3MB if it can rebuild it incrementally, it could be
08:15<frosch123>or it is just a installer, that downloads the actual stuff later
08:16<frosch123>when i updated flush the other day, it said 30mib or something, but what i got was only a 1mib executable that would do the download itself
08:17<Wolf01>it's already the installer, it was downloading the stuff :P
08:18<frosch123>no problem, you can chain that indefinitely
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08:28<@Rubidium>or is it a 180 MiB updater that you already downloaded, which downloads a 5 MiB patch?
08:31<supermop>off to bed,
08:31<supermop>but first, here is some ugly gravel:
08:31<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146379#p1146379
08:32<Wolf01>I don't know, maybe the battle.net client already have all the future patches and just update the bits before installing them
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08:33<Wolf01>it looks nice but too bright
08:36<Wolf01>uhm, another cute russian girl just sent me an email, too bad the sender address is french
08:37<supermop>whoa there is a lunar eclipse out the window
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08:42<@Alberth>ha, I thought at eclipse.org/download :p
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09:02<supermop>not a bad one, nice and red
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09:38<andythenorth>Pikka bob
09:39<Pikka>andysir
09:40<andythenorth>lo
09:41<Pikka>I made the mistake of playing a little game with busybee
09:41<andythenorth>oic
09:41<andythenorth>what happened?
09:41<Pikka>I have identified a gap in pineapple trains, in the early years
09:41<andythenorth>never play
09:41<andythenorth>it makes work
09:43<andythenorth>important questions: leave Depeche Mode playing, or choose something else?
09:43<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/jWiVV0a.png
09:43<andythenorth>is Depeche Mode sufficiently Christmasy?
09:43<Pikka>important answer: yes.
09:43<andythenorth>some kind of interurban cabbage?
09:43<Pikka>to the first question, I don't know about the second.
09:43<andythenorth>o_O
09:44<Pikka>yes. something more passengery for electrified lines.
09:44<andythenorth>also cheerful
09:44<andythenorth>looks happy
09:44<supermop>railcar looks cute
09:45<supermop>im off to bed
09:45<Pikka>goodnight
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09:48<andythenorth>bye pikka bob
09:48<andythenorth>wrong person
09:48<Pikka>him too
09:48<andythenorth>that will learn me
09:48<andythenorth>bye supermop
09:48<andythenorth>this Road Hog set is unfinished
09:48<andythenorth>shameful
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09:49<Pikka>I like it
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09:50<andythenorth>mixing it with Pineapples?
09:53-!-supermop [~supermop@d110-33-187-164.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:03<andythenorth>hmm
10:03<andythenorth>milk pipelines
10:04<@Alberth>moving the cow could be easier :p
10:06<andythenorth>:)
10:07<andythenorth>I have found a better way to play with FIRS
10:07<andythenorth>enable industry production cheat
10:07<andythenorth>better than delivering supplies to farms
10:07<andythenorth>recommended
10:10<Pikka>according to some guy on the forums FIRS is improved by mixing it with other industry sets...
10:15<andythenorth>something called TaI?
10:16<andythenorth>should have called it Bossy Bee
10:16<andythenorth>keeps telling me what to deliver
10:23<@Alberth>totally depends on your interpretation of its suggestions :)
10:23<@Alberth>but it's nice that people automatically think they have to do it :p
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10:30<andythenorth>it’s quite compelling
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11:19<andythenorth>so hg
11:19<andythenorth>when you’re on the wrong branch
11:20<andythenorth>you have no choice but to bin your changes?
11:20<andythenorth>or commit to the wrong branch?
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11:24<Eddi|zuHause>hg diff > tmp.diff
11:25<andythenorth>diff a PNG?
11:25<andythenorth>with hg?
11:25<andythenorth>it can do that now? :o
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>probably not. just make a copy
11:26<andythenorth>I had to
11:26<andythenorth>standard hg
11:26<andythenorth>copy everything because the vcs is incompetent
11:26*andythenorth should really stop using this
11:26<andythenorth>or I should install all the extra magic extensions that make it usable but don’t ship by default
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know why you're so upset...
11:27<andythenorth>because it makes me feel stupid
11:27<andythenorth>standard
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11:33<frosch123>andythenorth: hg diff --git
11:33<frosch123>but actually hg rebase
11:34<frosch123>if your working copy has your current files, do hg rebase <target branch>
11:35<andythenorth>so commit, then rebase to different branch?
11:35<frosch123>yup
11:36<frosch123>if rebase is too much magic for you, you can also use queues
11:36<andythenorth>I don’t mind rebase
11:36<frosch123>hg qimport -rblabla:.
11:36<andythenorth>I don’t have rebase, I’d have to get it
11:36<frosch123>hg update <target branch>
11:36<frosch123>you have rebase :p
11:36<frosch123>just need to enable it in ~/.hgrc
11:37<andythenorth>I should probably read this http://blog.benrhughes.com/advanced-mercurial
11:37<andythenorth>and fix my mercurial
11:37<andythenorth>mine is quite broken
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11:46<andythenorth>more horse
11:50<Pikka>"a little too low"?
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11:51<Pikka>I finished my little interurban, and I've decided to halve the wagon purchase prices
11:51<Pikka>deciding whether to call it a release or wait a while. I might wait a while, get some more stuff together for a big bolg post or something.
11:59<Pikka>for now, goondight :)
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12:21<andythenorth>‘create group from these shared orders'
12:21<andythenorth>would be more affordant than ‘find vehicle in long list, create new group, add shared'
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12:25<frosch123>andythenorth: ctrl+drag to empty row
12:26<andythenorth>ho ho
12:26<andythenorth>yet another magic ctr
12:26<andythenorth>ctrl *
12:26<andythenorth>thanks
12:35<Samu> if (owner != OWNER_WATER && owner != OWNER_NONE && _current_company != OWNER_TOWN ) {
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12:41<Samu>what's the diference between _local_company and _current_company
12:41<+glx>local is yours
12:41<+glx>current can be other
12:41<+glx>because the game manages all companies one at a time
12:46<Samu>prospected industries are prospected by owner-town even though I am prospecting it
12:48<Samu>i am trying to bypass CommandCost ret = CheckTileOwnership(tile);
12:48<Samu>checktileownership is the culprit, doesn't let it prospect on my own canals
12:49<+glx>that's how prospection works
12:49<+glx>it happens only on free land
12:49<+glx>and it can fail
12:49<Samu>Owner owner = GetTileOwner(tile); - this gives the owner of the canal
12:50<Samu>if (owner == _current_company) return CommandCost();
12:50<Samu>owner is company 1, current company is owner town
12:50<Samu>hmm
12:50<+glx>prospection doesn't start when you press the button
12:51<+glx>it happens later
12:51<+glx>during the industry loop
12:56<Samu>there has to be a way to get the company who issued the prospect command
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13:38<andythenorth>is it done yet?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27219 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-04-04 19:45:16 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 13 changes by xiangyigao
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13:57<andythenorth>‘Skip Truck’
13:57<andythenorth>understandable, or obscure?
13:58-!-Plaete [~moffi@xd9bdbb6e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
14:00<@Alberth>"Skip" being some class of truck?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>obscure
14:05<andythenorth>http://norriskips.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IMG_9911website.jpg
14:07<@Alberth>I'd call that a container truck :)
14:08<andythenorth>I could call it a recycling truck
14:08*andythenorth wonders if FIRS recycling chain should be introduced earlier
14:08<andythenorth>recycling is not new
14:09<andythenorth>1997 is quite late
14:15<@Alberth>wouldn't people get confused with the recycling plant?
14:19<andythenorth>because it randomises?
14:26<@Alberth>because it sounds like the truck is aimed at recycling products (it does to me)
14:28<TrueBrain>*blames andy*
14:28<TrueBrain>frosch told me to
14:34<andythenorth>reasonable
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14:50<frosch123>andythenorth: we are trying hard to sell eints to tb :)
14:52<andythenorth>is he buying?
14:52<andythenorth>will we get a good price?
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14:53<frosch123>i am trying to make him bite on the cheap stuff, and then make buckets on the service addons
14:58<andythenorth>upsell
15:01<Supercheese>andy: not sure about when to introduce recycling? Make it a parameter :)
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16:00<andythenorth>parameters are nonsense
16:00<andythenorth>how is a player supposed to know the right answer?
16:00<andythenorth>that’s my job
16:00-!-DanMacK [~46189b5e@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:00<@Alberth>economy parameters bad?
16:00<DanMacK>Hey all
16:00<@Alberth>hi hi DanMacK
16:01<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
16:02<Supercheese>Parameters are nice
16:02<Supercheese>let the player decide
16:03<andythenorth>how would they know the right answer?
16:04<frosch123>by trying all of them?
16:04<frosch123>make the default parameter "invalid"
16:04<@Alberth>reading documentation :p
16:04<frosch123>which just pops up an error message on game start :p
16:05*andythenorth mostly hates parameters
16:05<Supercheese>default it to 1997
16:05<andythenorth>dunno if I mentioned that
16:05<Supercheese>but make it changeable
16:05<andythenorth>why?
16:05*Supercheese mostle likes parameters
16:05<Supercheese>mostly*
16:05<Supercheese>derp
16:05<Supercheese>well, you asked the question
16:05<Supercheese>I answered
16:05<andythenorth>eh yes :)
16:05<andythenorth>there are 51 industries in Full FIRS
16:05<andythenorth>they all get a parameter? o_O
16:06<Supercheese>no, you were just wondering about the recycle
16:06<Supercheese>"andythenorth wonders if FIRS recycling chain should be introduced earlier"
16:07<@Alberth>how did you go from parameters in general to 51 of them? :o
16:07<andythenorth>by logical progression
16:07<Supercheese>the recycling chain is special though because it comes so late
16:07<@Alberth>quick logic then :)
16:08<andythenorth>how to explain to players?
16:08<andythenorth>why not a parameter for Steel, or Aluminium?
16:08<andythenorth>or Cement?
16:08<@Alberth>what is this 51 parameters for?
16:08<andythenorth>industry introduction dates
16:08<Supercheese>steel and aluminum are both just Metal though
16:09<@Alberth>what's wrong with the existing dates?
16:09<Supercheese>nothing is wrong especially they are fine
16:09<Supercheese>but the topic was brought up
16:10<andythenorth>I don’t play past about 2000
16:10<andythenorth>so the chain is dead to me :D
16:11<Supercheese>I got stuck in my current game when the first Av8 seaplane came out, because I thought, "Hmm, OGFX+ Airports doesn'tyet have a seaplane port, I should make one"
16:12<@Alberth>andy doesn't know people ask weird requests? :o
16:13<@Alberth>if you want to do anything, the simplest is to make an offset parameter, shifting everything by X years
16:14<@Alberth>but that's quite debatable, imho
16:14<andythenorth>I see no gain
16:14<andythenorth>just more configuration crap to forget to do
16:14<andythenorth>:D
16:14<@Alberth>problem solved then?
16:15<Supercheese>unless there wasn't a problem in the first place ;)
16:16<@Alberth>solving by not doing anything is one of the easier things to do :)
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16:18<@Alberth>gn
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17:31<Supercheese>Hmm, which graphics to use for the seaplane port
17:38<Supercheese>maybe the OGFX dock graphics
17:38<Supercheese>no those are bad
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>there exist some already?
17:40<Supercheese>yes, but which
17:41<Supercheese>I am patching OGFX+ airports, so I would like 4 rotations
17:41<Supercheese>I figure I need some little dockways for the people to board the seaplanes
17:41<Supercheese>but the rest can pretty much be water
17:41<Supercheese>with the hangar of course
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17:41<Supercheese>the existing seaplane port grf does not have all rotations
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>so, make them?
17:42<Supercheese>This is pretty nice http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=76702
17:42<Supercheese>except for the weird 04 hanging out there
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>that was meant to be the runway length?
17:43<Supercheese>perhaps
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>the hangar looks like it was built by escher...
17:44<Supercheese>yes, I am just going to stick the hangar right on the water
17:44<Supercheese>the ramp there is... odd
17:45<Supercheese>the dockways were what was most interesting
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17:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v frosch] by DorpsGek
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18:31<Samu>if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != _current_company) return ret;
18:37<Samu>hmm
18:38<Samu>_local_company == owner
18:38<Samu>_local_company != owner
18:39<Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != owner) return ret;
18:42<Samu>I hope local company is the company who issued the prospect command
18:47-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:47<Wolf01>'night
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18:49<drac_boy>hi..been quite a while :->
18:49<drac_boy>*baps ngc* you still around I hope? heh
18:51<Samu>question: prospecting on competitor canal with build on competitor canal setting enabled: allow or disallow?
18:51<Samu>have to decide
18:52<drac_boy>not sure what to tell you sorry samu
18:53<Samu>say, you're prospecting an oil rig
18:54<Samu>all the water in existance are canals, but these canals are not yours
18:54<Samu>should the oil rig spawn?
18:57<drac_boy>well water and road are technically open access so mm dunno
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19:18<drac_boy>hmm I seem to have forgotten where ngc was from..I think around the europe timezone tho
19:22-!-frosch is now known as frosch123
19:22<drac_boy>seem like a quiet saturday in here
19:22<+frosch123>http://tinodidriksen.com/pisg/OFTC/openttd.html <- see position 18
19:27<Supercheese>Ho, interesting rankings
19:27<+frosch123>question is, when will s*mu catch up with andy :p
19:28<+frosch123>eddit used to be in first place in the past
19:28<+frosch123>but has been dwarfed by andy
19:28<+frosch123>and even pm overtook him
19:29<Supercheese>"Poor andythenorth, nobody likes him. He was attacked 13 times.
19:29<Supercheese>For example, like this:
19:29<Supercheese> * TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing "
19:29<Supercheese>Haha
19:30<drac_boy><actually likes andy for various reasons especially HEQS (and admittly my own private mod to it too)
19:31<Supercheese>Indeed, andy grfs are superlative
19:31<+frosch123>lol, you make it sound as if noone likes andy :p
19:32<Supercheese>everyone likes him, hence the direct object in the /me actions
19:32<Supercheese>:D
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19:36*drac_boy still needs to finish my two grf projects soon too
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19:42<Supercheese>Something I've been working on: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=184490
19:43<Supercheese>sort of the opposite of the Modern Small airport that was added, here's a Vintage Commuter
19:44<+frosch123>it's always sad that most airports only have one runway
19:44<+frosch123>the smallest grass airport would have 3 lines or so
19:44<+frosch123>for whatever reason
19:45<+frosch123>possibly to not stress the same grass all the time
19:46<Supercheese>The grass tiles beneath the buildings also seem slightly different than the other grass on the airports, even on the default Small airports
19:46<Supercheese>I might change the groundsprites of those
19:48<Supercheese>There is so much magick in the OGFX+ spritelayouts
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19:58*drac_boy will stick to the small airport 'forever' :->
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20:11<drac_boy>so what're you two doing atm?
20:15<supermop>eating chocolate
20:20<drac_boy>nice
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20:23<drac_boy>slow night for me here anyhow..sorting out how to print a second edition book (can't decide if want do a digital copy too or not so) ..
20:23<drac_boy>tomorrow hmm just a few misc paperworks
20:44<+glx>oh I left the top
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21:33<supermop>TaI game is interesting diversion from modeling
21:48<Pikka>silly TaI
21:52<Pikka>got some fun variations on the TaI mechanics planned for pineapple industries...now I just need the time to create it. :)
21:55<supermop>hehe
21:56<supermop>playing tai with SV
21:56<Pikka>does it break?
21:56<supermop>got distracted from by goal town by building up an industrial city to the east
21:56<supermop>no seems to work so far
21:56<supermop>but i have yet to get my $$ to build my goal industries, so we will see
21:57<supermop>i don't see any of the town halls though
21:57<supermop>so im just guessing what types of towns these are
21:58<supermop>this industrial city is producing tons of passengers and sending them out into the world via cargodist
21:58<supermop>but the little towns they go to produce almost none
21:58<supermop>so all these ukrs expresses taking them there return empty
22:00<supermop>so ive built a huge tram network to give more destinations in the city, but of course those distances are not as long
22:02<supermop>ooooh e-class 6021 outside!
22:03<supermop>now there are more e classes that D2s on the network
22:03<supermop>finally. the combinos are way too loud and bumpy
22:04<supermop>can't wait till they get rid of all the D classes on my street and bother someone else with them
22:08<Eddi|zuHause>NIMBY!
22:14<supermop>the combinos are shit
22:15<supermop>every one of them sounds and feels like it has square wheels
22:15<Pikka>oh, TaI towns, not industries :P
22:16<supermop>using both i think?
22:17<supermop>does transporting output away from an industry let it use its stockpile faster?
22:17<Pikka>yeah, it should say in the window how fast it's producing
22:18<Pikka>it won't rise above the slowest rate if nothing's being transported away iirc
22:19<supermop>ok
22:19<supermop>coal makes the steel mill go faster?
22:19<supermop>brb taco time
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 05 00:00:21 2015