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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-05

---Logopened Sun Apr 05 00:00:21 2015
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00:24<supermop_>what does the fuel depot do?
00:27<Pikka>accepts fuel oil
00:28<Supercheese>and wood in arctic, IIRC
00:28<Supercheese>it's similar to the gas stations in ECS and FIRS
00:36<supermop_>ok. so no reason to dump fuel there rather than the gas stations in town though?
00:37<Pikka>I don't know if the TaI petrol stations accept it. otherwise, no, not really.
00:38<supermop_>well its farther away so i get more money i guess
00:38<supermop_>i didn't know if tai used to to boost growth or something
00:50<Pikka>what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
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00:57<Supercheese>Key to the City
00:57<Supercheese>first thing that came ti mind
00:57<Pikka>ew :) thanks
01:08<supermop_>damnit did not get to build any electrified lines to buy a 'southern emu' before my trial was up
01:09<supermop_>moa a good name for fictional emu
01:09<supermop_>maybe if IH ever gets EMUs
01:09<supermop_>or if pineapple needs some earlier ones?
01:10<supermop_>or maybe i need to make a EMU set called Moa
01:11<supermop_>Multpleunit Overhead Ac-powered?
01:11<supermop_>I'll leave you and andy to fight over the scraps of naming an EMU 'Ostrich'
01:13<supermop_>tram network has sapped all of the passengers away from my train lines, need to shuttle this pannier over to go work light freight on other side of town
01:18<supermop_>The Moa and Camel could be a good pub name referencing metro-cammel emus too
01:18<supermop_>of to rhino to model a pub!
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02:06<andythenorth>also morning Pikka chops
02:07<supermop_>hi andy
02:07<andythenorth>is this Pikka dead?
02:09<supermop_>he was on bit ago
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02:16<andythenorth>early Alberths
02:17<@Alberth>8am that early? I get up at around 7am normally
02:26<Pikka>what what what
02:27<Pikka>andythenorth, what do I call my gamescript?
02:27<@Alberth>what does it do? (or intends to do)
02:28<Pikka><Pikka> what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
02:28<andythenorth>capture the flag
02:28<Pikka>yes but
02:31<andythenorth>connect 4
02:32<Pikka>I will call it all of those
02:32<andythenorth>points win prizes
02:32<andythenorth>what’s the point
02:32<andythenorth>grosse point blank
02:34<Pikka>I could just call it fred
02:36<@Alberth>wat (win a town)
02:36*andythenorth crashes ottd
02:36<andythenorth>ho quite hard
02:36<Pikka>what did you do?
02:37<andythenorth>reloaded newgrfs
02:37<andythenorth>when vehicles have changed length
02:39*andythenorth misses fast-fwd
02:39<andythenorth>was a useful feature
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02:50<Pikka>why, what did you do to it?
02:51<andythenorth>I chose a computing platform that changes often
02:51<andythenorth>also I chose 2x UI zoom
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03:16*andythenorth trucks a livestock
03:31*Supercheese lives a stock truck
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03:43<Supercheese>Huh, I was checking out (English) Wikipedia's Did you know section, and found!
03:43<Supercheese>it claimed not to be confused with
03:44<Supercheese>but of course I immediately did confuse the two
03:44<Supercheese>started humming the wrong tune...
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03:58<andythenorth>moar Hog
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04:08<Pikka>moar hog than you can poke a stick at
04:10<andythenorth>watch your swines head
04:10<andythenorth>with that stick
04:17<andythenorth>pikka so is capture the flag playable yet? o_O
04:18<Pikka>not at all
04:18<Pikka>I just wasn't doing enough things at the same time, so I decided to revisit writing a GS. :)
04:21<andythenorth>good call
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04:34<Wolf01>is easter happy?
04:35<andythenorth>happy as a bunny
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04:46<supermop>reminds me to go eat chocolate
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04:55<supermop>ok moa pub sign done
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07:03<@Alberth>hello Terkhen
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09:32<Samu>have you seen the reddit game?
09:32<Samu>there is a city sized 412k
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09:38<Samu>never seen a game so populated
09:38<Samu>17 players in
09:43<Samu>lol, so funny, i entered a company of someone who didn't know how to raise money
09:43<Samu>didn't raise loan...
09:44<Samu>but was waiting for money
09:44<@Alberth>casual players don't read manuals
09:44<@Alberth>given the current games that have dummy manuals built-in, it's not so weird
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09:58<Samu>they're discussing novaclient, do you know what that is? about easier order making
10:01<@Alberth>don't know it
10:04<Samu>these guys must be cheating
10:10<Samu>how can they have this city so big
10:13<@Alberth>there are experts that play openttd for making big cities :)
10:14<@Alberth>there are also topics at the forum about it
10:14<@Alberth>and perhaps even at the wiki
10:14<frosch123>there is always a bigger fish
10:14<@Alberth>I never studied them, as I am not interesting in having a big city
10:15<frosch123>i think i saw a 1.5M city
10:15<frosch123>anyway, if you know how to do it, it's boring :p
10:18<frosch123>Samu: <- if you want to learn it
10:19<frosch123>there is a 2.5M town in one of the screenshots
10:20<frosch123>basically you have to garden the town
10:20<frosch123>you cannot just let it grow as it comes :p
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10:28<Samu>spiral roads
10:28<Samu>and tunnels
10:33<Samu>openttd has got an "obscure interface", someone comments, I wonder what it is
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10:34<DanMacK>Hey all
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10:41<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> eddit used to be in first place in the past <-- i was never first in number of lines. only in number of words. nobody can beat andythemonologue
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12:37<Samu>i'm so disappointed
12:38<Samu>teleporting cargo is allowed
12:38<Samu>station spreading is allowed
12:38<Samu>this reddit server is horrible
12:39<Samu>they're being teached the wrong way...
12:39<Samu>"it's a trick"
12:39<frosch123>yeah, there is only one true way to play the game
12:39<Samu>teaching noobs the flaws of the game
12:40<Samu>i am surprised i'm the only one complaining, out of 17
12:40<Samu>it's sad
12:41<frosch123>most imporant is, that you play it correctly, instead of just having fun
12:42<Samu>they are abusing the town spread algorithm to the point they're splitting the map in 4 parts
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12:43<frosch123>that for sure can't be fun
12:45<Samu>there's a town with houses extending from coordinates 1005 x 230 all the way to 134 x 230
12:45<LordAro>Samu: you've clearly never seen an openttdcoop game :p
12:46<LordAro>(progame 5 is something else)
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13:11-!-circ-user-qXdNR is now known as Marty
13:11<Marty>Anyone with experience with ECS vectors?
13:13<Samu>not me
13:14<frosch123>there is an extensive documnetation on
13:15<frosch123>but other than that, it does not appear particular popular these days
13:16<frosch123>it's the first big industry set, newer sets learned from it, i guess
13:20<Marty>What are the alternatives to ECS? And can you use one of the vectors alone
13:20<Marty>or do you have to use all at once
13:21<frosch123>town vector is must
13:21<frosch123>rest is optional
13:22<Marty>ah okay, I just see that lots of the vectors depend on each other
13:22<Marty>Do you use any mods your self frosch123 ?
13:23<frosch123>alternatives are ogfx+industries (simple), yeti (medium), firs (medium to complex depending on parameters)
13:24<frosch123>there are also some other variations of the three
13:24<frosch123>like ogfx+manpower industries or whatever it is called
13:25<Marty>Thanks a lot, was just what I wanted to know
13:26<Samu>i'm doing something a bit dangerous in the code
13:27<Samu>manipulating an error
13:27<frosch123>Marty: <- if you are planning to use ogfx+industries or firs, you need to know about step 3 "newgrf parameters" :)
13:28<Marty>Will look into it, I only knew about ECS but Im checking out yeti right now
13:28<Marty>180 mb .. big download
13:28<Marty>compared to a 7mb game
13:29<frosch123>it has an extensive documentation at
13:29<frosch123>yes, yeti has zoomed-in graphics
13:30<frosch123>if you are going to use yeti, you will need a trainset that supports them
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13:30<frosch123>pineable trains, iron horse, or nuts
13:30<frosch123>most other sets will work as well, but are unlikely to have specific yeti graphics
13:30<Marty>Nuts lol
13:30<Samu>if (ret.Failed()) - don't fail yet, fail if it meets extra criteria, or maybe even pass!
13:38<Marty>Any recommendation for choosing a industry set?
13:40<frosch123>no, they all have different game mechanics
13:40<frosch123>i would recommend to not use one with more than 3 times the industry types than you are used to :)
13:41<frosch123>it can get annoying if you have many similar looking industries, and have a hard time to figure out where to actually transport stuff
13:41<frosch123>if you are not used to using the industry chain view and linking it to the map, you will have a hard time
13:42<frosch123>so, just try, and look at the parameters if the water is too cold :p
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13:43<Marty>why do you need the trainset for yeti?
13:44<frosch123>are you using any trainset or vehicleset currently?
13:44<Marty>I just use the basic ttd set
13:44<frosch123>then you won't have any vehicles to transport the new cargos :p
13:44<frosch123>you cannot use the default vehicles with the advanced industry sets
13:45<Marty>ah okay thats why
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27220 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-04-05 19:45:14 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
13:45<frosch123>if you haven't used any vehicleset before, you will likely also encounter cargo refitting
13:46<frosch123> <- with the default vehicles it only exists for ships and aircraft
13:46<frosch123>but it's the normal case for any other train- or road vehicle set
13:47<Marty>yeah :) I used to play the original TT game back 20 years ago
13:50<V453000>there are only like 4 custom cargoes in YETI so it isnt apparent at the first glance :P
13:50<Marty>FIRS seem pretty big by comparison
13:50<frosch123>firs has parameters
13:51<frosch123>the default economy is "full firs", which i would not recommend in the slightest :p
13:51<frosch123>via parameters you can pick from several smaller economies
13:51<Marty>The temperate basic seems more like what I should t ry
13:52<Marty>yeti and ecs does also seem pretty neat
13:52<Samu>i just found a bug
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13:52<Marty>I like how you can stockpile some resources at the production plants.
13:53<V453000>yeti has a very functional, simple concept
13:53<V453000>but getting it work well requires having a nice network :)
13:54<Samu>1. have the option to fund primary industries as other industries
13:54<Samu>2. click to fund an industry, but don't place it
13:54<Samu>3. now change the setting to prospecting
13:55<Samu>bug: the cursor didn't revert
13:55<Samu>i can place a prospecting industry
14:02<Marty>wow FIRS is really really crazy
14:02<Marty>Impressive but very hard to understand.
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14:13<Samu>who's an expert on detecting all corner cases here? chillcore?
14:13<Samu>i need help on conditionalizing an error
14:13<Samu>between line 21 and 34 is the important part
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14:43<Samu>no one understands?
14:47<@Alberth>how is clearing a water tile related to industry funding?
14:48<Samu>checking who owns it
14:49<Samu>if _current_company is OWNER_NONE or OWNER_TOWN then it's an industry that's being placed
14:50<Samu>if _current_company is one of the other 15, then it's not an industry that's being placed, it's a real company
14:50<Samu>OWNER_TOWN is for prospecting
14:51<Samu>OWNER_NONE is for funding or random creation as far as I could understand
14:51<frosch123>yup, that is the intentional behaviour
14:51<frosch123>prospected industries which choose their location randomly should not be constructed on player property
14:52<frosch123>like bought land or canals or whatever
14:52-!-chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1002:8400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
14:52<frosch123>if the player pcks the location themself, they are free to choose their property
14:52<chillcore>hello all o/
14:52<frosch123>hi chill
14:52<Samu>there's my doubt about _local_company
14:52<Samu>_local_company is the company who actually issued the order, if I got this right
14:53<frosch123>no, you got that wrong
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14:53<frosch123>local_company never changes
14:53<frosch123>it's the company of the client ottd is running on
14:53<frosch123>it has different values for every players' computer, if they have different companies
14:54<frosch123>using it in a command, other than for decidcing whether to popup news messages or something, will desync
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14:56<Samu>then how can i retrieve the company who issued the prospect command :(
14:57<Samu>i was using _local_company :(
14:57<frosch123>it's _current_company at the beginning of the command
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14:57<Samu>_current_company is OWNER_TOWN for prospecting
14:57<frosch123>but it is switched in the middle to some neutral company, due to the reasons above
14:57<frosch123>if you want to keep it, you have to pass it to the functions separately
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15:06<chillcore>wrong buuuuuuuutton XD
15:06<chillcore>I fund a bugsie
15:06<chillcore>a real one
15:07<Samu>I have to think: an industry, other than oil rig, has to be placed by OWNER_TOWN, and not by the prospecting company, due to the reason it could spawn on company-owned land
15:07<frosch123>picking up pm's habbits?
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15:07<frosch123>pm presses ctrl+w all the time :p
15:07<chillcore>bought land signs are on the wrong tile ...
15:07<frosch123>already fixed
15:07<Samu>damn purchase land :(
15:07<frosch123>it's a ogfx bug in the rc
15:08<frosch123>it's only wrong in zoom-in
15:08<chillcore>ok thx frosch
15:08<frosch123>because the zoom-in gui sprite was assigned to the viewport sprite
15:09<Samu>an oil rig doen't have the issue of being placed on company-purchased land though
15:09<Samu>you can't purchase water
15:09<chillcore>hmm ... ok
15:09<Samu>and oil rigs needs water
15:09<frosch123>canals are purchased water
15:10<frosch123>btw. oil is not made of water :p
15:10<Samu>yes, I was conditionalizing if ret.Failed() to pass
15:10<frosch123>oil has carbon instead of oxygen
15:11<Samu>it fails, but I force it to pass whenever it ends on self canal, not on competitor's canals
15:12<Samu>at least, that was the idea
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15:25<Samu>question, do you know of any hybrid industries? part water, part land?
15:25<Samu>have you seen such an industry in a newgrf or so?
15:26<frosch123>every harbor industry
15:36<Samu>how do i get an industry behaviour of an industry that does not yet exist :(
15:37<Samu>the layout is not even decided yet :(
15:37<Samu>or is it?
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16:01<@Terkhen>good night
16:08<Samu> - nice bug
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16:35<Samu> if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) {
16:36<Samu>i dont know how to use the backup
16:37<Samu>or rather, skip the backup
16:37<Samu> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_TOWN, FILE_LINE);
16:46<Samu> Owner prospector = OWNER_TOWN;
16:46<Samu> if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
16:46<Samu> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, prospector, FILE_LINE);
16:53<Samu>there! I fooled the backup
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17:10<Samu>this was not the behaviour I was looking for
17:11<Samu>if ( && _current_company != owner) return ret;
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18:01<Samu>i'm terrible at logic, worse at reverse logic
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19:05<Samu>need help
19:06<Samu>can't use local company
19:06<Samu>but i have to decide based on its value :(
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19:36<Samu>i can't tell the difference between funding and prospecting if I set the _current_company to be the same as _local_company in the part where it sets the prospector code to town :(
19:37<Samu>i need a differentiator, a way to tell between funding, prospecting or random creation
19:37<Samu>it's not easy without using _local_company
19:44<Samu>and i have another problem with clearance checking for the cases when I'm demolishing a canal of a competitor
19:44<Samu>obviously it must fail
19:44<Samu>i need a 3-way comparison
19:46<Samu>can't reduce it to a 2-way comparison :(
19:52<Samu>can I use OWNER_WATER for prospecting?
19:54<Supercheese>Water, water, everywhere
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20:10<Samu>nop, can't do it as water either
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20:11<Samu>i need a check that matches the variable _local_company = owner
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20:16<Samu>_current_company != OWNER_TOWN && _current_company != OWNER_NONE && owner != self -> pass for funding on competitor canal, but fail for demolishing canal of the competitor
20:16<Samu>can't have it both ways
20:16<Supercheese>Well, got a seaplane port looking good graphically, now I just have to figure out how the heck to stop it from being flooded when placed in the ocean...
20:17<Supercheese>could use canals, but they ugly
20:17<Supercheese>I hear rumor that newobjects can work but I have tried several and none seem to stop flooding....
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21:39<Supercheese>Wow, what on earth is special about the water tile from the Seaplane Airport grf that makes it not get flooded?
21:39<Supercheese>I cannot make any object resist flooding like it does
21:44<Supercheese>Ah, I see: (GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_SEA) ? FLOOD_ACTIVE : FLOOD_NONE;
21:44<Supercheese>I will make note of this on the wiki, it is not at all obvious
21:45<Supercheese>case MP_OBJECT: returns the above... hmm
21:46<Supercheese>no wait that still does not answer the question
21:48<Supercheese>Aha, the object must be allowed to be on both land and water
21:53<Supercheese>Huh, this phenomenon is probably unintended behavior
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21:57<supermop>crashed rhino while mdelling pub roof
22:00<supermop>all of my flashing and coping gone....
22:01<Supercheese>sounds like what happened in Glasgow, although instead of a rhino it was a helicopter
22:01<Supercheese>crashed through the pub roof
22:01<supermop>ive got pretty sidetracked here...
22:04<supermop>think up bad pun in irc, think up further worse pun based off the first,
22:04<supermop>decide 2nd pun makes a good pub name,
22:05<supermop>spend hours making a pub sign and logo for said pub
22:05<supermop>realize that rendering pub sign on its own looks a bit odd, need a wall or something for context,
22:06<supermop>realize wall of station doesn't look right for a pub sign
22:06<supermop>start modelling basic pub to put sign on
22:06<supermop>realize pub doesnt look right with built in wall materials
22:07<supermop>start working on creating own materials for plaster, tile, and painted brick,
22:07<supermop>realize roof looks too flat,
22:07<supermop>look at pub roofs in google maps
22:08<supermop>crash rhino while modelling the flashing covering joints in roof....
22:08<supermop>thats my last 20 hours
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22:15<supermop>what are you doing with the seaplane airport?
22:27<supermop>ok i was able to redo all that flashing more quickly this time
22:27<supermop>and with simpler geometry
22:45<Supercheese>I'm doing this with seaplane airport:
22:46<Supercheese>Hoping to get it fully functional
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22:46<Supercheese>currently everything works but it gets flooded
22:47<Supercheese>obviously combining grfs there, SNO, marico, and OGFX+ airports
22:52<supermop>looks nice
22:52<supermop>could use a different hanger
22:52<supermop>what about half of an ogfx ship depot as seaplane hanger?
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 06 00:00:22 2015