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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-09

---Logopened Thu Apr 09 00:00:16 2015
---Daychanged Thu Apr 09 2015
00:00<Samu>i'll check for answers tomorrow
00:00-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-252-157.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:08<kamnet>So r5577 shows up sometime tomorrow?
00:08<kamnet>Oh nevermidn I see 5576-53
00:11<kamnet>but looks like I'll have to wait for a compiled version :D
00:11<Supercheese>err isn't it already?
00:12<Supercheese>https://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airportsplus/push/LATEST/
00:30<kamnet>Sorry, I looked again, it was there
00:30<kamnet>My OpenTTD folder was pushing 14GB
00:35<Supercheese>whew, that's not small
00:35<kamnet>All stored on Google Drive. :D
00:39<Supercheese>ah
00:40<kamnet>Now trimmed down to 7.92 GB
00:53-!-soupy [~oftc-webi@24-107-129-82.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #openttd
00:54<soupy>So I think inflation has ballsed up my game somehow.
00:54<Supercheese>It does that
00:55<soupy>I can choose between 170km/h for $400k / year, or the latest monorail 300km/h for $60k / year.
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00:56<soupy>I usually don't change any settings to do with finances, but I don't remember this disparity. Maybe it's one of the NewGRFs.
00:57<soupy>Also, I'm not sure I've ever played a 200 year game before, so that might have something to do with it.
00:57<V453000>do you mix newgrfs?
00:57*soupy looks sheepish.
00:57<soupy>I copied my NewGRF list from Damage's LP.
00:58<V453000>well, such disparity in costs usually is due to various newgrfs
00:59<V453000>and every newgrf is in different price range
00:59<V453000>it is just yet another pointher at how useless prices are
00:59<soupy>Without the cheap stuff I'd be screwed though. I don't remember ever having such issues turning a profit. The cheapest before these came along were $400k a year... which is a lot to ask for a train that moves fruit from one place to another.
01:00<V453000>yeah, I guess the idea of the author is that the food/goods trains will balance it out, or that you should not use the trains on such route XD
01:00<soupy>My fruit > alcohol industry was running at an almost constant 100k/year loss, no matter what I did.
01:00<V453000>:)
01:00<V453000>yeah
01:01<V453000>I make things cheap, which is why NUTS is rather cheap
01:01<V453000>lets you build more, less sitting around waiting for cash, simple as that
01:01<soupy>I knew you were TTD-famous for something.
01:01<V453000>the only real "way tomake more money" is trivial anyway, you build less track on longer distance. You can do that with everything cheaper and build faster, but nothing really changes with costs
01:02<V453000>well I did a few more newgrfs but NUTS was first :P
01:02<V453000>and I kind of spent years playing at openttdcoop before that so I kind of know how the game works too :P
01:02<kamnet>Just depends on what you're playing for. I'm pretty much a sandbox player. I try to do things profitably, but if a line isn't making money I typically don't sweat it.
01:03<V453000>openttd is sandbox? :P
01:03<kamnet>After all, I'm the banker. I'm the 0.1% of the 1%. :D
01:03<V453000>xd
01:04<soupy>As for money, I know I could spend my savings on throwing out a long line and just pass stuff back and forth and be golden. But I /knew/ there was something amiss with my alcohol industry losing money.
01:04<kamnet>It's the engineer. he's drinking up your profits!
01:07<soupy>He'll be boozing for a while. Now I've found the problem, I've got 2,000,000 liters of alcohol sitting around.
01:07<V453000>:)
01:08<soupy>Between this and a similar problem with my bauxite > supplies chain, I haven't even started wood or oil yet.
01:09<V453000>I think FIRS also reduces the payment rates for primary cargoes quite majorly
01:09<V453000>so if you have an expensive train set, it is probably wtf
01:09<V453000>and secondaries help a ton
01:10<Pikka>in any case, if you've been playing for 200 years with inflation on, your income will be about 1/5th of what the newgrfs are balanced for. :)
01:10<soupy>That's what I'm thinking Pikka.
01:10<V453000>aaaand that :)
01:14<soupy>Hmm, which makes me wonder if the modpack I found with decent maintenance fees isn't taking inflation into account.
01:14<soupy>s/modpack/NewGRF
01:15<V453000>it likely isnt
01:15<V453000>you cant really do that
01:15<V453000>the player could start the game 30 years later or earlier and all of your calculations would be broken
01:16<kamnet>We need a new inflation model that balances against map size
01:17<soupy>Huh, I'd have thought there would be some public method to do that. $actualprice = $this.inflate($baseprice)
01:18<V453000>nah we dont need any price model, and people need to stop playing on maps larger than 1k x 1k XD
01:18<V453000>all reason is out of the window by then anyway
01:18<V453000>"I just want bigger map cause duh"
01:22<soupy>Pretty much. I genned a 4kx4k map and I'm only using maybe 600x600 so far.
01:28<V453000>I dont think anybody ever filled anything above 1k x 1k
01:28<V453000>I had 5000 trains on 512x512
01:28<V453000>bigger map just wrecks CPU and everything
01:28<V453000>for multiplayer where is extreme amount of clients, 2k x 1k is reasonable
01:28<V453000>but still holyhell big
01:29<Eddi|zuHause>you can try to set the basecost
01:29<Pikka>it's so people can play multiplayer without the extreeeme stress of actually interacting with other players
01:29<Pikka>4 players all playing in different corners of 2048*, isn't that just so much more fun than single-player?
01:29<Eddi|zuHause>basecost works in steps of doubling/halving cost or income groups
01:30<Supercheese>I have yet to play a game larger than 512x512
01:30<Supercheese>since my goal is to hook up every town and every industry
01:30<kamnet>I like bigger maps because I like to look at trees and mountains and rivers. If I wanted to see 512x512 crammed with train lines, I'd look at circuit boards
01:30<Supercheese>anything larger would take aeons
01:30<Eddi|zuHause>i think the largest i played seriously was 2048x1024 with very few towns. but i only covered half the map
01:31<kamnet>I played the same game for nearly four years. :D
01:31<Eddi|zuHause>interestingly, i covered the longer edge in that game
01:31<Eddi|zuHause>so like 2048x512
01:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
01:36<kamnet>I think I'm going to start working on my GRFID project and just let the community work on the NewGRF list for a bit. If they care. Which they probably don't. :P
01:36<soupy>Maybe a stupid question, but with all these NewGRFs, not all the trains are easily distinguishable by what type of track they run on. Is there an easy way of showing?
01:37<andythenorth>no
01:37<andythenorth>(Track Type) in the name doesn’t work very well
01:37<andythenorth>some people use icons iirc
01:37<kamnet>But no universally agreed on format for displaying that information.
01:37<V453000>I think I will start over with RAWR postproduction XD
01:38<V453000>it just got WAY out of hand
01:38<V453000>just build a depot and see which trains are available in that depot soupy
01:39<kamnet>*ponders* If I post my GRFID Wiki proposal in OpenTTD Development, would I get better feedback or participation?
01:39<soupy>Genius.
01:40<andythenorth>oop
01:40<andythenorth>oops
01:40*andythenorth crashed openttd
01:40<andythenorth>hard
01:40<kamnet>It needs more coffee
01:41*Supercheese crashed trains
01:41<Supercheese>perhaps crashing trains crashed ottd
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>in CETS i put track type in extra purchase text
01:41<Supercheese>and then if crashing ottd crashes your computer...
01:41<V453000>when you crash carmageddon reincarnation (often), it says "Oh the irony, game about crashing has crashed."
01:42<soupy>I think Beul's Mono Maglev conversion is throwing it off a bit. Monorail trains are showing available in a maglev statino
01:43<kamnet>That's what it's supposed to do.
01:43<kamnet>"This grf modifies compatibility of standard rail types to allow electrified trains on monorail and monorail on maglev. The aim is to make the process of converting to/from monorail and maglev easier. Known side-effects are that electric trains are now purchasable in monorail depot's. (the same goes for mono and maglev ofc). Furthermore it may (read will) in some cases look silly."
01:44<kamnet>Also: "This grf will likely not function well with any other railtype grf. Trainsets with great amounts of vehicles will cause a very long vehicle list. It is also advised not to use this grf if you have vehicles_never_expire enabled."
01:45-!-Mr_Bones_ [~msterret@pool-71-168-64-13.cncdnh.fast.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:45<soupy>Yeah, that's the problem I'm coming up against. I probably should have read the fine print.
01:45<kamnet>Caveat emptor.
01:45<soupy>I'm only 3 days into this map. I may have to start over and remove a few NewGRFs.
01:47<kamnet>That always sucks. Granted you could enable newgrf developer mode and take it out, but it could leave things unpredictable. >:)
01:48<kamnet>Not that I'd ever suggest anybody do such things. I totally hosed my four-year long save game because of it.
01:49<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't read the description of NewGRFs, you probably also don't read the instructions of which NewGRFs are probably dangerous to remove from a running game
01:49<V453000>removing track sets definitely is not a good idea
01:50<soupy>I read the description Eddi|zuHause, and knew what that mod did. I didn't think of it when I tried V453000's suggestion.
01:51<kamnet>My poor game. Supercheese's mail trucks kept getting stuck on the threshold between road tiles and lorry stations. :-(
01:51<Supercheese>How odd...
01:51*andythenorth considers using a binary heap
01:51<Supercheese>Ah I really should get around to adding 32bpp to those vehicles
01:51<Supercheese>they are almost all rendered
01:52<soupy>I'm going to see what endgame looks like. If I can just get to know a few of the maglev vehicles for specific purposes, I'll stick with it.
01:52<kamnet>Not the mail truck's fault. I had added and removed enough NewGRFs I somehow corrupted the game logic that vehicles couldn't tell when the lorry station was empty or full, so they'd stop on the threshold and block all other vehicles from coming or going.
01:52<Eddi|zuHause>TTO used to do that. somehow one or more vehicles got stuck when entering/leaving a truck station, and then they all clumped up
01:54<kamnet>Supercheese, that would be awesome. Also wouldn't mind seeing earlier models of hot air balloons. :)
01:54<Supercheese>I have that too
01:54*andythenorth thinks using heapq might be overkill for a simple list
01:54<Supercheese>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1062867#p1062867
01:54<Supercheese>but I am really lazy
01:55<Supercheese>so I haven't implemented it yet
01:55<Supercheese>although if you want, I can send you that test grf
02:01*andythenorth learns some actual programming theory
02:02<andythenorth>‘computer science’ would be stretching the term though
02:02<kamnet>That would be cool, Supercheese :D
02:02<Supercheese>mmk, I'll pm it to ya on the forums in a bit
02:02<kamnet>I'm revamping my Empire scenario and would love to see random balloons floating by
02:05<andythenorth>hmm https://docs.python.org/2/library/collections.html#module-collections
02:12<Rubidium>kamnet: what would such a GRFID project yield?
02:14<kamnet>Rubidium: In essence, replace GRFCrawler with a Wiki database of GRFIDs. Run a script that scrapes bananas for all current GRFIDs registered and generates a page for each one with basic information. Authors and visitors alike can then modify the wiki to include any useful information they deem fit to publish.
02:14<Rubidium>bananas scraping is so lame ;)
02:14<Rubidium>and that list is so partial
02:15<kamnet>It would be partial, but it would be a start
02:15<kamnet>as more files are added to bananas, more IDs automatically get copied over.
02:15<Rubidium>http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/newgrfs.php <- better start ;)
02:15<Supercheese>kamnet: pm sent
02:16<Rubidium>as that contains basically anything that has been seen in the last few years on multiplayer games
02:17<kamnet>You could pull that into. Bananas is wonderful, though, because a) we know authors are using it to update their files and b) it contains useful information for players.
02:17<Rubidium>but I reckon that searching is going to be a real pain in the arse in wiki
02:18<kamnet>Not any more than it is on GRFCrawler now
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02:19<andythenorth>I would pay zero attention to any list of grfids
02:20<andythenorth>bananas prevents uploading with an existing grfid?
02:20<V453000>^
02:20<V453000>waste of time
02:20*andythenorth considers making 255 FISH grfs, to reserve ‘my’ range
02:20<V453000> #gobananasorgohome
02:21<andythenorth>and uploading them all to bananas
02:21<kamnet>Say, for example, you have a scenario with NewGRFs loaded, but you don't have them. OpenTTD offers to find them in Bananas. Banaas doesn't have the files. It then offers to find them for you when you click "External Website" button. Currently it takes you to a GRFCrawler result that searched for the missing GRFID.
02:21<andythenorth>I need a naming convention
02:21<andythenorth>fish-00.grf - fish-FF.grf?
02:21<V453000>"grf exists" and "grf isnt on bananas" should not even happen :(
02:21<soupy>Well, I have seen the future, and it is shit. Changed the year to see exactly what trains I'll have available. Apparently after I convert to maglev, I'll be limited to non-FIRS transportation.
02:22<andythenorth>ha
02:22<andythenorth>you suck :D
02:22<V453000>original trains :)
02:22<soupy>Balls.
02:22<Supercheese>Well, for testing purposes surely grf exists predates grf is on bananas
02:22<V453000>no NUTS, no play :P
02:22<V453000>sure Supercheese but usually not publicly available
02:22<V453000>if yes then that already is pretty wrong
02:22<andythenorth>‘for testing purposes’ the grfid could be 12345678
02:22<Supercheese>and during development new features don't make it to bananas but they are on bundles server......
02:22<V453000>just throwing gfrfs around forums is quite bullshit imo
02:23<V453000>true
02:23<andythenorth>you are quite bullshit V453000
02:23<@planetmaker>moin
02:23<V453000>also true? :D
02:23<V453000>hy
02:23<andythenorth>bonsoir
02:23<@planetmaker>Supercheese, http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/migrating-to-mercurial.html#id442397 is for you then :)
02:23*andythenorth resists git trolling
02:23<Supercheese>Eh, I have made it work
02:24<Supercheese>I'm an engineer not a computer science major, so I doubt my use of any vcs will ever be required outside of hobby work
02:24<kamnet>As much as I'd like it to be, not everybody wants to be nice and use bananas, and they're also not interested in registering on grfcrawler and keeping it updated. By moving it to the wiki, anybody who is interested in updating the info can do so.
02:24<soupy>OK, so NUTS provides a new railtype after maglev, and has full FIRS compatibility, right?
02:24<andythenorth>if I am recursing over a simple tree of switches, why do I care what the switch IDs are?
02:24<V453000>NUTS has compatibility with any industry set
02:24<V453000>and adds a bunch of universal tracks, and wetrail :>
02:25<andythenorth>switch_1, switch_2 instead of switch_check_player, switch_check_road_ne
02:26<andythenorth>then I don’t have to track the entry point
02:26<Supercheese>Hmm, I doubt I can commit my current seaplane port to OGFX+ since I use MariCo sprites...
02:26<Supercheese>dilemma
02:26<Supercheese>need GPL-compatible sprites
02:26<Supercheese>and I don't draw
02:27<kamnet>Ask Quast65 if he still has the very first copies of the seaplane port. he had some dock-style sprites with it before he removed them all.
02:28<Supercheese>yeah that's right
02:28<Supercheese>that version of the grf is gone too
02:28<kamnet>ask Owne to roll back the forum database ;-)
02:28<Supercheese>although hmmm, can one grf use the sprites from another somehow...
02:29<Supercheese>I know you can check for presence and do overrides and stuff
02:29<kamnet>Do you really wanna tie the usage of your NewGRF to another NewGRF that isn't on Bananas?
02:29<Supercheese>No, of course not, but if it's detected it could optionally use the sprites
02:30<Supercheese>which makes for a very smooth integration and neat aesthetics
02:30<Supercheese>but I doubt that is even possible
02:31<kamnet>Shoot the sprites over to me, I'll draw some new ones that match the shape and size.
02:32<Supercheese>Hmm, not a bad idea, there are only two sprites and they are mirrors of each other
02:33<soupy>Well, if my choices are to pay $1.6 million a year for a maximum of 240km/h for FIRS transport, or try NUTS... I think I'ma go NUTS.
02:34<kamnet>Huzaah, soupy! Pull the trigger
02:38<@planetmaker>Supercheese, as to airports: is there a natural (temporal) progression from the grass to the concrete representation or is it purely user choice?
02:38*andythenorth wonders about futurism trains in Iron Horse
02:38<Supercheese>It is currently just a user selection
02:39<Supercheese>there is no automated transition, same as the Modern Small
02:39<@planetmaker>ah. I thought they would change at a certain date :) Modern and small are different sizes and layouts :)
02:40<kamnet>A suggestion: pre-1930 is grass, 1930-1950 is asphalt, 1950+ concrete.
02:40<@planetmaker>I actually was surprised one could add more than 4 rotations, Supercheese :)
02:40<Supercheese>errr? I based all of my changes on the existing small airport's modern layouts
02:40<Supercheese>those were added ages ago
02:40<@planetmaker>Supercheese, and as to creating the previews, it's easy: build the airport ingame on the terrain, create a screenshot and cut the preview from the screenshot. That's how I created the different previews tailored to climate
02:41<Supercheese>Yep, that is what I did, just really time consuming
02:41-!-soupy [~oftc-webi@24-107-129-82.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
02:41<@planetmaker>true :P
02:41<Supercheese>anyway, r162: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/revisions/f693f76e28a8
02:41<@planetmaker>ok, I might mis-remember some details. And yes, I saw your changes. Just wondered how it worked (I didn't really read code)
02:42<Supercheese>It works the same as those additions by Yexo
02:42<__ln__>@seen Yexo
02:42<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 18 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 26 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
02:42<Supercheese>man, long-o time-o
02:43<Supercheese>Anyway, the new airport variants do not have much in-game publicity
02:43<Supercheese>you really have to know they are there and keep clicking the rotations
02:43<Supercheese>perhaps some additional texts should hint to their existence
02:44<kamnet>Indeed, I didn't know it until you brought it to my attention. I never thought to look past the 4th rotation
02:44<Supercheese>I'll work on that next
02:45<@planetmaker>kk, no worries Supercheese :)
02:47<@planetmaker>Supercheese, either that. Or introduce them as separate airports
02:47<Supercheese>that is just what I was thinking
02:48<Supercheese>need to check how that would be best done
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02:51<Supercheese>Man, I'm never gonna get back to playing, just gonna keep adding more grf features XD
02:51<andythenorth>happens
02:52<supermop_>hey pm
02:53<supermop_>the tensile roof monorail station: what if the roof membrane was suspended below the wires?
02:56<soupy>OK, so here's my proposed NewGRF listing for my new game: Vactrain set, av8, FIRS, original vehicle FIRS cargo, Squid Ate FISH, NUTS, PURR, YETI.
02:57<Pikka>why "original vehicle FIRS cargo"? especially if you're using NUTS
02:57<Pikka>go with road hog if you need a RV set :P
02:57<soupy>Because new things scare me.
02:57<soupy>I JUST WANT TO CLING TO WHAT I KNOW
02:58<Pikka>also, personally, I recommend av9.8 rather than av8, but ymmv ;)
02:58<soupy>OK, I'll remove the FIRS cargo thing.
02:58<Supercheese>I am not even sure you can add a new airport entry
02:58<soupy>I barely use planes anyhow, so that's not a big deal really.
02:59<andythenorth>use eGRVTS not Road Hog
02:59<andythenorth>Hog is all wron
02:59<Supercheese>it seems like you must have the override property set when you define a newgrf airport, but that means you can't add an entirely new entry
02:59<andythenorth>wrong *
03:00<Pikka>hog is alright :)
03:00<andythenorth>it will be beta soon
03:00<Pikka>?? Supercheese
03:00<andythenorth>'soon'
03:00<soupy>I just removed eGRVTS. Honestly I was tired of having too many choices.
03:00<Pikka>you have to set the property so it knows which airport to copy the statemachine from
03:00<Supercheese>Indeed
03:00<Supercheese>but then you can't have two airports overriding the same airport both show up eh
03:00<Pikka>but unless you set a certain bit it won't override the original, iirc?
03:01<Pikka>that's my interpretation of the spec, I've never tried making new airports :P
03:01<Supercheese>well adding more and more layouts has worked swimmingly
03:01<Supercheese>but they are very poorly advertised
03:01<Supercheese>an entirely new entry in the list would be far more obvious
03:02<Pikka>huh
03:03<Pikka>the intro blurb talks about "property 8 or 9", but property 9 isn't listed :)
03:03<soupy>OK, so Vacuum Tube set, av8, FIRS, Squid, NUTSPURRYETI.
03:04<soupy>Any recommendations on settings changes so I don't fark myself over with inflation like last time?
03:04<Supercheese>well, that's peculiar
03:04<Pikka>if you like that sort of thing, soupy. Um.. turn inflation off? that's the main one. :)
03:04<Supercheese>OTTD does not like a grf trying to set the name property on airports
03:06<andythenorth>Pikka: so you have hogged? o_O
03:06<kamnet>If eGRVTS is too many choices, might wanna try Hungarian Truck Set. Good variety, but not too many IMO.
03:06<Pikka>it's a lie
03:07<Pikka>I have hogged, but not in the last few days? are there updates?
03:07<andythenorth>erm
03:07<andythenorth>alpha-14 a few days ago
03:07<andythenorth>nothing since
03:07<soupy>Pikka, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the problem. i.e. why some trains were over a million per year, and some were 10k... and what the price /should/ be.
03:08<soupy>I think starting in 1850 was a big problem. I got off to a very bad start.
03:08<@planetmaker>Supercheese, that's peculiar indeed
03:08<Pikka>why some trains were over a million per year, and some were 10k <- well that can only be because of using multiple grfs, I expect.
03:08<Supercheese>There is no property for Airport Class (Small, Large, Hub, Helicopter). I would think that defining a new airport would require such a property...
03:08<Pikka>V's trains tend to be very cheap because he doesn't care about money :)
03:08<kamnet>soupy, have you tried a 1950-2050 game yet?
03:08<Pikka>so that's NUTS, etc
03:09<Pikka>there is, Supercheese
03:09<Supercheese>oh?
03:09<Supercheese>It is not enumerated in either wiki entry
03:09<Pikka>oh
03:09<Pikka>there isn't, Supercheese :)
03:09<Supercheese>ha
03:09<soupy>kamnet: As long as NUTS will let me keep playing after 2050, I'd be quite happy.
03:09<Pikka>I was thinking 0D, but... there you go :)
03:09<@planetmaker>Supercheese, the category is defined by the layout you choose (such by which airport it is)
03:09<Pikka>also that
03:10<Supercheese>well yeah overriding
03:10<Supercheese>hmm
03:10<V453000>NUTS works like 1700-forever :D
03:10<V453000>even with expiring vehicles
03:10<V453000>just works (tm)
03:10<soupy>Well this should be fun then. I'ma just dive into these NUTS and see what happens.
03:11<V453000>spoilers: mayhem happens
03:11<Pikka>slugs happen
03:11<V453000>^
03:11<Supercheese>Well... if you make one item entry for the Small airport, you need to use the override property... but then if you want to make another entry for a different type of Small airport, you'd have to set the override again... which invalidates your first changes
03:12<Supercheese>unless... hmm
03:12<soupy>Bugger it, starting in 1900 for a nice slow early-game.
03:12<Supercheese>ah there we go
03:13*andythenorth fixes petrol-pump-on-slopes-issue
03:14<@planetmaker>hm... so how does it work, Supercheese ? :)
03:14<Supercheese>well, I have added a new entry but cannot yet change its name
03:15<@planetmaker>not even with the name property?
03:15<Supercheese>it complains when I use that
03:15<@planetmaker>oh, of course it will have to have its own ID
03:15<Supercheese>says attempting to use invalid ID
03:16<Supercheese>I may need to give the item block its own ID
03:16<@planetmaker>yes, that's what I mean
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03:18<Supercheese>No, use of the name property still results in that invalid ID complaint, irrespective of automatic or manual item ID selection
03:19<Supercheese>but removing the name property, all works pretty much fine
03:19<Supercheese>I wonder if I need to update NML...
03:20<Supercheese>yeah OTTD really hates the name property
03:22<andythenorth>urgh
03:22<andythenorth>the circular tile check
03:22<andythenorth>can I continue avoiding that?
03:22<Pikka>yay
03:22<andythenorth>it’s not hard, just ugly
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03:22<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/builders_yard.pypnml#L21
03:26<@planetmaker>Supercheese, got a patch for me to check?
03:26<@planetmaker>the name property woes?
03:26<Supercheese>I am investing main OTTD source, trying to see if there's something weird going on
03:28<Pikka>andy: what does the search do?
03:29<Pikka>the tile cheque, I mean
03:29<Supercheese>but yeah, adding the name property to any airport causes an invalid ID error
03:32<soupy>V453000: I just Googled "yeti dude uranium nuts".
03:32<soupy>gdi
03:32<Supercheese>AddStringForMapping(buf->ReadWord(), &as->name);
03:32<V453000>xd
03:32<Supercheese>hmm, nothing seems out of place, but I don't know what the & is doing there
03:32<V453000>http://www.defectiveyeti.com/images/dynew.gif
03:33<soupy>So it looks like Yeti makes FIRS obsolete.
03:33<andythenorth>Pikka: goes looking for houses nearby, allows building if it finds some
03:33<V453000>you cant really have 2 concurrent industry sets
03:33*andythenorth would be happy if FIRS was obsolete
03:33<Supercheese> :(
03:33*Supercheese would not
03:33<andythenorth>things need to die
03:34<Pikka>just check town zone, near enough? ;)
03:34<andythenorth>eh maybe
03:34<andythenorth>might be a good idea
03:35<andythenorth>what do they mean? o_O http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:List_of_town_zones
03:35<andythenorth>I've never used them
03:36<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/TownZones ?
03:36<Supercheese>not necessarily much more help there..
03:37<Supercheese>"Roads are plain in zone 0 and 1, paved in zone 2, have trees in zone 3 and streetlights in zone 4 "
03:38<Pikka>checking for any of them is probably enough. Leaving out TOWNZONE_EDGE if you don't want it right on the edge or in very small towns?
03:38<@planetmaker>Supercheese, got a quick patch, adding a new airport for me?
03:38<Supercheese>sure, sec
03:40<andythenorth>Pikka: so which zone(s) to check for if I want to be near houses? o_O
03:40<andythenorth>all but edge?
03:41<Pikka>any of them I should think
03:41*andythenorth experiments
03:42<Pikka>tile check might be the only way to guarantee that it's near houses
03:42<andythenorth>don’t actually care that much
03:42<Pikka>but I'd do some other distance-to-town check first just to narrow it down, so it's not doing the tile search everywhere.
03:42<andythenorth>can’t remember even why the current code is the way it is
03:45<Supercheese>planetmaker: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7615
03:46<Supercheese>if you want complete code I can paste that too
03:47<Supercheese>I have also tried taking unpatched OGFX+ airports and only trying to add the name property to one of the existing airports, and that also results in errors
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03:48*andythenorth wonders if there is TOWN_ZONE_NONE
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03:48<chillcore>good mmorning interwebz o/
03:49<Pikka>frequently!
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03:49<kamnet>Supercheese, PM for ya
03:49<Supercheese>Ho, quite nice
03:52<kamnet>:-)
03:54<kamnet>I've not tested that next to a land mass or newobject surface, so no idea how it lines up though. May need to make it slightly ramped
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03:57<Supercheese>They blend well enough with MariCo docks
03:57<Supercheese>but yeah the pillars are shorter
03:57<@planetmaker>Supercheese, setting a name seems to compile at least with NML. Is it just OpenTTD which complains? http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/misc_ogfxairport.diff (sorry, mixed with another patch)
03:57<Supercheese>so a ramp may be helpful
03:57<Supercheese>planetmaker: Yes, NML compiles fine but OTTD complains when loading the grf in a new game
03:58<@planetmaker>ah
03:58<Supercheese>sorry if that wasn't clear
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03:59<Supercheese>oh shoot I am running a patched version, I hope that wasn't causing the issues
03:59<Supercheese>I forget I am doing so :S let me grab nightly
03:59<andythenorth>:o
03:59<andythenorth>editor find-replace somehow reverted a file to a much older version :o
03:59<andythenorth>wtf
03:59*andythenorth fixes
04:00<@planetmaker>hm, strange, Supercheese... the version here doesn't barf either
04:00<Supercheese>I keep forgetting the version I use is not trunk T__T
04:00<Supercheese>this has happened before :|
04:00<@planetmaker>r27124
04:01<@planetmaker>what *do* you use?
04:01<Supercheese>r27220M, with several personal modifications
04:02<Supercheese>ah, it is still complaining in r27221
04:02<@planetmaker>what does it complain about?
04:02<@planetmaker>(exact message)
04:03<Supercheese>A fatal NewGRF error has occurred: Attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 9933)
04:07<@planetmaker>right. I cannot reproduce that. Not with current OpenTTD head nor with r27124
04:07<Supercheese>well, I use the precompiled Windows NML
04:08<Supercheese>perhaps that has something to do with it
04:08<@planetmaker>0.4.0.r5576:84560317b163 from 2015-04-08
04:08<@planetmaker>not sure
04:09<@planetmaker>you probably should file a bug with NML with the complete patch of ogfx-airports you have
04:09<@planetmaker>or better a minimal patch which creates the broken grf
04:16<@planetmaker>Supercheese, you might want to try whether my patch works for you (use hg import)
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04:53<andythenorth>default values hide mis-spelt keyword args :P
04:53<@planetmaker>:D
04:54<andythenorth>6 out of 66 FIRS industries converted :P
04:56*andythenorth has run out of tertiaries
04:56<andythenorth>tertiaries are easy, no production :P
04:58<andythenorth>kamnet: hotels near houses, rather than near center of towns yes/no?
05:00<@planetmaker>andythenorth, just anywhere near / in towns is fine
05:00<andythenorth>it’s now seeking houses
05:00<andythenorth>as that check exists and can be used
05:00<andythenorth>no more resort hotels 8 tiles from town, mind :P
05:01<@planetmaker>resorts can be right in the middle of nowhere :)
05:02*andythenorth compares before/after
05:02<andythenorth>single-industry compiling ftw
05:04<andythenorth>16 seconds with primed caches, not 3 mins
05:04<andythenorth>hmm
05:04<andythenorth>dunno about this hotels rule
05:04<andythenorth>looks nice when they’re out of town
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05:06<andythenorth>how about hotels just anywhere? o_O
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05:46<__ln__>https://manjaro.github.io/expired_SSL_certificate/
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06:40<Pikka>hotels EVERYWHERE
06:41<Pikka>in other news, it helps if you remember to put the increment in your while loop :)
06:45<SpComb>thankfully python doesn't have loops with increments
06:46<supermop_>hotels everywhere sounds fine to me
06:46<supermop_>more hotel layouts too
06:57<supermop_>spaceframes really don't look good in tt world
06:57<supermop_>thin, light structures in general just look odd
07:03*chillcore makes some noise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWcgVoZ9iy0
07:04<chillcore>the crowd (in the vid) will shut up and shake booty ;)
07:05*chillcore shakes booty ... ouch
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07:40<Samu>hi
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09:16<Xaroth|Work>SpComb: enumerate()?
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09:33<SpComb>Xaroth|Work: exactly, it has a better approach, and you don't need to write out any explicit increments
09:39<supermop_>writing posts after 700ml bottle of 9% ale not a great idea
09:39<supermop_>much rambling
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09:45<andythenorth>blearch
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds unhealthy
09:47<supermop_>have a tuatara double trouble andy
09:48<chillcore>supemop: 2 mussels went for fries. coathanger. <- if you are not rolling on the floor right now ... you can has another :P
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>keep your measles for yourself
09:49<chillcore>hehe
09:50<supermop_>hmm i actually have met very few germans who like bivalves
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>what's a bivalve?
09:51<supermop_>i've also met no germans from parts of germany near where bivalves live
09:51<supermop_>s maybe that's why
09:51<supermop_>mussel or clam or oyster
09:51<supermop_>growing up in the midwest, i generally also met almost no one who really liked oysters or mussels
09:52<supermop_>scallops yes for some reason
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, most seafood has the trouble of being really salty
09:52<supermop_>chillcore: unfortunately its all gone!
09:52<supermop_>ber came with free 3d glassed though
09:52<supermop_>beer
09:53<chillcore>too bad and nice
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there a futurama intro slide with "now in beervision"?
09:54<chillcore>I have not seen enough episodes to know that ...
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>my google skills fail me on this one
09:55<supermop_>http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1349896875/505/7801505.jpg
09:55<supermop_>that's what i was drinking
09:55<supermop_>3d glasses did not fit over my regular glasses though
09:57<supermop_>man this guy really loves the jinty
09:57<supermop_>i only had tto i can can barely remember it
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>man, i'm like a week behind in forum posts
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10:06<Faintful>Hey guys!
10:06<Faintful>I was wondering how I can enable Cargodist on a dedicated server
10:06<Faintful>I can't find the options in the config
10:07<@planetmaker>then look again :)
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>they might have the phrase "linkgraph" in them
10:08<@planetmaker>but look for the section [linkgraph]
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10:14<Faintful>I will take a look!
10:14<Faintful>Can I ask one more question? If I have a server with newGRF's installed, will players that connect be able to use them without downloading them seperately?
10:15<Pikka>define "seperately"?
10:15<Pikka>if the newgrfs are on bananas, they'll be able to click a button to download everything they need
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10:16<Faintful>But it won't download automatically from the server?
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the answer you're looking for is: "no". the players have to download the NewGRFs, and the server cannot distribute them
10:16<@planetmaker>no. They cannot connect to the server, if they don't have those used by the savegame
10:17<Faintful>I see, thanks!
10:17<@planetmaker>but the server join dialogue offers to download missing from bananas
10:17<Faintful>Unfortunate though!
10:17<Faintful>Ohh, really?
10:17<@planetmaker>thus: use only bananas-fied ones
10:17<Faintful>It does that automatically?
10:17<@planetmaker>no. but it's one click
10:17<Faintful>Yeah, I do only download ones from content.openttd.org :)
10:17<@planetmaker>did you never play online yourself? Try it!
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>no, you have to click a button to download
10:17<@planetmaker>before you setup a server yourself
10:17<@planetmaker>you use web download?!
10:17<Faintful>I was setting up a cool server for me and my friend, but we haven't had the time to test it out yet
10:17<@planetmaker>how pretty uncool :)
10:18<Faintful>pretty uncool? XD
10:18<@planetmaker>use ingame content download :)
10:18<@planetmaker>easy-peasy
10:18<chillcore>^^^
10:18<Faintful>I should change my download path then :p
10:19<supermop_>later
10:19<@planetmaker>download path?
10:19<chillcore>no when creating the server with newGRF that are on bananas and start a game
10:20<Faintful>Oh yeah, I'm using a dedicated server!
10:20<Faintful>Forgot to mention that :p
10:20<@planetmaker>yes... use rcon :P
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>thre's a console interface for the content download
10:21<@planetmaker>but there it might be easier to get them locally and copy them to the dedicated server, if you don't use them all
10:21<Faintful>I'm only using a select few indeed, there's so many options!
10:22<@planetmaker>the console interface sadly is not straight forward for that. Luckily soap knows how to handle it and only thing I need is !content :)
10:22<Faintful>Ahhh, I read about soap ye
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10:22<Faintful>Btw guys, I set up my Cargodist! It was indeed linkgraph I had to find.. stupid me
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10:28<soupy>Faintful: Is linkgraph the one that shows you the pretty graphs on who wants to go where?
10:30<@planetmaker>no(t directly). But when cargodist is active, that linkgraph can be toggled ingame to assess the cargo flow
10:31<@planetmaker>depends on what you call 'the linkgraph' really. Technically the UI shows what cargodist uses to distribute stuff
10:36<Faintful>The linkgraph settings also allow you to change the distribution from manual to symetric
10:37<Faintful>Why is it as a player possible for me to alter the settings? For example the AI's? Is there an extra setting I have to enable for that to be impossible?
10:37<Faintful>Oh wait
10:37<Faintful>Nevermind
10:37<Faintful>VERY DUMB!!
10:39<Faintful>Something is very wrong with th eautosave setting in 1.5! It doesn't matter to what you set it, it still saves monthly
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure you set it in the right place?
10:40<Faintful>I definitely set it to yearly
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>invalid settings will be converted to the default value
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10:41<Faintful>I'll test it once more, copied the setting from the local config
10:43<Faintful>Well, for some reason the local autosave overruled the server autosave
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>the local autosave saves on your local computer, and the server autosave saves on the server. there is no connection between these two features and they can be set to different intervals
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>if the server irrevocably crashes, you can create a new server from your local autosave
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>or irrecoverably
10:47<@planetmaker>there are game settings, there are mapgen settings, gui settings and client-side settings :)
10:47<@planetmaker>and server-side settings
10:47<Faintful>I'm running the server on my computer so I think they get confused
10:48<@planetmaker>that depends on which configs they use
10:48<@planetmaker>thus how exactly you run them
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>two programs writing to the same autosave folder might be troublesome
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>also, using the same config file
10:49<@planetmaker>you can run without clash dozens of openttd servers on the same physical machine. Just make sure, they reside in separate dirs, have their own config files and own savegame paths
10:49<@planetmaker>^ whether that is a good thing performance-wise, is another discussion (it's not)
10:50<Faintful>Why is it a hit on performance?
10:57<soupy>Sweet! Pindtown now accepts <invalid cargo>. Now just to find an <invalid cargo factory>.
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>that's what you get for switching newgrfs ingame
11:03<Celestar>planetmaker: if you got 16 cores around ..
11:06<soupy>Eddi|zuHause: I didn't switch NewGRFs ingame though. I literally just genned this world.
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11:24*andythenorth wonders why FIRS has two colour schemes
11:27-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
11:27-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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11:30<andythenorth>lo Alberth
11:31<@Alberth>hi hi
11:33<@planetmaker>soupy, then you use possibly Japanese (town?) NewGRF. Some versions of it are broken
11:34<@planetmaker>o/
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11:47<soupy>planetmaker: Nope, never used that one.
11:47<@planetmaker>well, then obviously some other
11:49<soupy>Well, yes. :P
11:50<soupy>It was really just a test map to play with cargodist and the linkgraphs.
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11:51<soupy>Though I would like to know if something is borked with this set before I start a real game.
11:53<soupy>I hate to say it, but I think I'm going to forego Yeti.
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12:10<@Terkhen>hello
12:13<andythenorth>hi Terkhen :)
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12:19<fjb_mobile>Moin
12:20<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:28*andythenorth regrets the loss of ffwd
12:28<andythenorth>testing industry production is…less fun now
12:28<@Alberth>hi hi
12:28<@Alberth>build sufficiently next to each other ?
12:29<andythenorth>still takes time to get to the end of the month ;)
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12:41<andythenorth>hmm
12:41<andythenorth>what’s the switch ID limit?
12:43-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>256 i think
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>where NML needs some for its own purposes
12:49<frosch123>nml tells you :p
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>that's the number of nested levels of switches
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>you can have more switches if they are not nested
12:49<andythenorth>action 2 registers?
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>hilarious youtube videos?
12:50<andythenorth>127?
12:50<andythenorth>hmm 127 is “not a lot”
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>there should be 256 as well
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>but i never actually used those
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>except for the specia ones above 0x100
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>+l
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>... need to go shopping. apparently it's been another week
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12:54*andythenorth wonders what happens if a processing industry doesn’t have input_multiplier_1 defined
12:54<andythenorth>is the default value sensibly 0?
12:54<andythenorth>or 8 or such?
12:54<andythenorth>or I could cargo-cult in setting all these props to 0,0
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>rule number one: there are no sensible defaults
12:55*andythenorth cargo-cults the 0s
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>default values are either copies of the original industry, or 0
12:55<andythenorth>thanks :)
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>and in either case, probably not what you want
12:56<andythenorth>0 is the desired value :)
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>still, you need to set that explicitly
12:57<andythenorth>done it :)
13:07<andythenorth>hmm
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13:08<andythenorth>returning 400 in nml to industry text cb
13:08-!-DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
13:08<DanMacK>Hey hey
13:09<andythenorth>lo DanMacK :)
13:09<andythenorth>can’t see a constant for 400
13:09<andythenorth>CB_FAILED exists, but apparently I shouldn’t be failing the industry window text cb
13:10<andythenorth>¿ can I return TTD_STR_CARGO_PLURAL_NOTHING
13:13<frosch123>andythenorth: CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT
13:14<andythenorth>ta frosch123
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13:47<Wolf01>o/
13:47<andythenorth>o/
13:47<@Alberth>moin
13:49<Wolf01>my poor coworker... he needs to change the tires of his car, buy the pellet for the next winter, buy more lego, go to the dentist, buy more lego, go to Legoland with the ITlug members, buy more lego...
13:50<andythenorth>tough
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14:00<@planetmaker>FS#6278 seems to apply also to trains and bridges. Thus http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/fs6278.diff maybe?
14:02<Samu>what is that bug report I reported that you closed?
14:02<Samu>where can i still find it?
14:02<Samu>i have a patch´~
14:02<@planetmaker>you find it in the same place as before. Just search for the closed issues or all
14:03<frosch123>isn't it already implemented for trains?
14:03<@planetmaker>doesn't look like
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14:04<@planetmaker>you could check with http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/fs6278.sav easily for the iron bridge in the centre of the viewport
14:05<Samu>ah, found it
14:05<@planetmaker>(if your viewport is 1980x1200 :P)
14:05<@Alberth>please add a . to /* Use the speed as limited by underground and orders */
14:05<@planetmaker>:)
14:06<Samu>im submiting a patch in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6271?string=&project=1&search_name=&only_watched=1&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=closed&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
14:06<Samu>omg, link size sorry
14:06<Samu>do i have to request re-open again?
14:07<@Alberth>you think we will fix invalid problems?
14:07<frosch123>planetmaker: ah, "max speed of current order" is what i remembered
14:08<frosch123>bridge is new, even though it is older :p
14:08<@planetmaker>:)
14:08<@planetmaker>Honestly, I only checked for trains that it works. But the code in the other functions of CurrentMaxSpeed suggests it will work for the other vehicle types then, too
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14:09<Samu>but i solved it :(
14:09<Samu>why it's invalid
14:10<Samu>not perfect, but it's something
14:10<frosch123>planetmaker: max_speed = min(max_speed, this->current_order.GetMaxSpeed()); <- there are more redundant lines
14:11<Samu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6271/getfile/10207/Unstuck%20Ship%20when%20Leaving%20Depot.patch
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14:11<Samu>submitted
14:11<@planetmaker>true. Will remove those three, frosch123
14:12<frosch123>Train::GetCurrentMaxSpeed also handles the tack_speed
14:12<frosch123>so, the train case is only about stopping
14:12<@planetmaker>updated diff
14:12<@planetmaker>yup
14:13<frosch123>looks fine to me :)
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14:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r27222 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2015-04-09 20:17:43 +0200 )
14:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6278]: Use the current maximum speed as limited by bridges, orders etc. for all vehicle types alike when considering increased smoke emissions of vehicles.
14:21*planetmaker -> pub now :)
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14:21<@Alberth>bye
14:32*andythenorth shaves the yak some more
14:32<Samu>sometimes when I disable full animation in the debug version i get an error
14:33<Samu>Unhandled exception at 0x00000001407BCB8B in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000003EE3000.
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14:33<Samu>> openttd.exe!Blitter_32bppAnim::PaletteAnimate(const Palette & palette={...}) Line 484 C++
14:33<Samu>so annoying
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14:34<Samu>it's been doing this ever since I started meddling with msvc
14:34<Samu>it's just that it doesn't always happen, it's random
14:38<fonsinchen>Samu, attach the msvc debugger to it, wait until it happens and check the stack trace.
14:39<Samu>oh, erm, okay, I'll try to do that, not familiar with those words
14:42<Samu>DEBUG - Attack to process?
14:42<Samu>which one is the msvc debugger?
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14:46<Samu>how do i do this?
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14:48<@Alberth>I could suggest how, but you don't want to know
14:48<Samu>ok
14:49<@Alberth>at least that's what you said
14:52<Wolf01>sorted cats http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/aZxE73p_460s_v1.jpg
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14:54<@Alberth>:)
14:54<Samu>stack trace
14:55<Samu>there's a call stack
14:55<Samu>a stack thread
14:56<Samu>meh, what can i do with iths
14:56<Samu>ths*
14:56<Samu>this*
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14:58<Samu>> openttd.exe!Blitter_32bppAnim::PaletteAnimate(const Palette & palette={...}) Line 484 C++
14:59<Samu>how do i pass this error to a file or so?
15:00<Samu>a dump
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15:00<Samu>ah, save dump as?
15:02<Samu>omg 666 MB file :(
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>imagine how mad they get when a cat goes into the wrong box
15:04<Samu>ok, i have the dump file, is this sufficient?
15:05<Samu>quite big, even compressed
15:05<Samu>what do i do now?
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15:07<kamnet>@logs
15:07<@DorpsGek>kamnet: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
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15:25<+glx>Samu: open the dump in with msvc
15:25<V453000>OPEN THE DUMP
15:25<Samu>oh, i see
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15:25<Samu>minidump file summary
15:26<+glx>press run
15:26<Samu>test - run - all tests?
15:27<+glx>just run it like openttd
15:28<Samu>I can only Attach...
15:28<Samu>there's 3 actions: Debug with Native Only
15:29<Samu>Set Symbol Path
15:29<Samu>Copy all to clipboard
15:29<+glx>debug
15:29<Samu>ah, it brought me to the unhandled exception
15:30<Samu>break or continue?
15:30<+glx>break
15:30<+glx>then you have the call stack
15:30<Samu>i see it at the bottom middle, yes
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15:32<Samu>let me copy this
15:32<Samu>as text
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15:33<andythenorth>ha ha ha
15:33<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdv5nylzk
15:33<andythenorth>quite a lot of FIRS secondary industries feature ‘boost'
15:33<andythenorth>and quite a lot of them have totally wrong values
15:33<Samu>is that of any use?
15:33<@Alberth>haha andythenorth :)
15:34<andythenorth>all that effort delivering all required cargos
15:34<andythenorth>in some cases, for zero benefit :)
15:35<frosch123>placebo gameplay?
15:35<@Alberth>good thing I usually never bother with supplies :p
15:36<Samu>i'm sending the dump to onedrive
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15:39<kamnet>Zero benefit, andythenorth? Why?
15:41<andythenorth>because the boost value is set to 0 or otherwise too low
15:42<andythenorth>only in a few cases
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15:44<kamnet>I like them because it keeps me busy, but if they're not really needed I'm sure I could dedicate those resources elsewhere.
15:45<andythenorth>the bug will be fixed in FIRS 2
15:46<kamnet>TIRS for FIRS?
15:46<andythenorth>boom boom
15:46<andythenorth>it’s a Mad World
15:58*andythenorth does a naughty
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16:26<V453000>short post for dem forumz
16:26<andythenorth>can haz workflow
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16:32<V453000>ayez captain
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16:34<Samu>file synced
16:34<Samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!804&authkey=!ALZ9KwDForw_rqw&ithint=file%2cdmp
16:35<Samu>glx
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17:21<Supercheese>Aah, managed to get Farm Supplies and Engineering Supplies to every requesting industry on the map
17:21<frosch123>send the save to andy :)
17:21<kamnet>Huzz!
17:22<frosch123>he doesn't believe its possible
17:22<Supercheese>I use a lot of airships
17:22<frosch123>andy loves ships? :p
17:22<Supercheese>also it's only a 256x512 map
17:23<kamnet>FLAP - FIRS Loves AeroPlanes :D
17:23<Supercheese>oh wait I missed one
17:24<kamnet>Left you another PM Supercheese
17:26<Supercheese>Well, Av8 has 4 seaplanes, two of which are amphibious and can fit either floats or wheeled gear
17:26<Supercheese>but the most famous, the various models of Pan Am Clipper, are absent
17:27<Wolf01>'night
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17:34<kamnet>We need MOAR SEAPLANES
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17:37<kamnet>*ponders* If planes have floats on them can we animate water spray when they land?
17:38<frosch123>most likely you can in the same way as fish
17:39<frosch123>planes know when they land, pikka used that for the inclination for years
17:39<Supercheese>Yeah should be possible
17:40<Supercheese>If you can draw it, it can be coded is generally the rule. Generally.
17:53<Supercheese>Oh good grief
17:53<Supercheese>I think I know why I was having issues with the name property last night, it needs to be defined AFTER the override property
17:54<Supercheese>may need to edit the wiki to clarify that
17:54<@planetmaker>oh?
17:54<Supercheese>Yeppers
17:55<frosch123>the override property should say very clearly, that it must be the first one :p
17:55<Supercheese>indeed
17:55<Supercheese>it now seems obvious but it was not immediately so
17:55<frosch123>it's nothing special about the name, it's special about the substitute/override :p
17:55<Supercheese>aye
17:56<Supercheese>was too sleepy to figure that one out last night -_-
17:56<@planetmaker>nml should probably re-arrange that silently
17:56<@planetmaker>yet it doesn't (yet) do so
17:56<frosch123>not possible with "if" and stuff :p
17:57<Supercheese>Yep, confirmed that was the problem
17:57<Supercheese>override must needs be set first
17:58<Supercheese>Well, I will probably migrate the newly added airports to their own entries
17:58<Supercheese>get them better exposure
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17:59<frosch123>same applies for stations, industries, industry tiles and houses :p
17:59<frosch123>oh, and objects
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18:00<frosch123>and railtypes
18:01<Supercheese>It doesn't seem to actually explicitly say so in the specs though
18:01<Supercheese>ah, it does for industries
18:01<Supercheese>and houses... I will add it to airports
18:03<frosch123>for railtypes and objects it's the label/classid you have to set first
18:04<Supercheese>*sigh* it's the little things that getcha...
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18:34<supermop>yo
18:35<Supercheese>aloha
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18:41<Supercheese>Oh now each airport can have its own dates of introduction
18:41<Supercheese>hmmm
18:45<Elukka>did 2cc's current iteration remove the old feature where trains would have barely any running costs while standing still?
18:45<Elukka>or did i break things somehow
18:47<kamnet>It may not have implemented that yet.
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18:51<Elukka>hmm. might have to go to the old 2cc for the time being then
18:52<Supercheese>Ha, why does this page https://wiki.openttd.org/Sampson_U52 list Real Life equivalents as the Concorde... and it has listed that ever since the page was created
18:52<Supercheese>the other languages have it correct, strange
18:53<Supercheese>seems most of the aircraft pages are similarly broken
18:53<Elukka>hm. though it has nicer wagons
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18:53<Elukka>tradeoff between wagons and better running costs, then
18:54<Supercheese>Ah, perhaps a wiki template is broken
18:55<Supercheese>Yes, a template is indeed broken
18:56<Supercheese>there we go
19:05<Supercheese>Hmmm, should I only enable the airship stations if Av8 is loaded...?
19:10<supermop>hmm
19:10<supermop>is there an ogfx aircraft? and could it add the disaster zepplin as a vehicle?
19:10<supermop>people may like them in modern era for rough remote helicopter stations
19:12<Supercheese>I believe the general consensus is just, "Use Av8, nothing else even comes close."
19:13<Supercheese>You could try and make another aircraft grf... but you'd always just be playing second fiddle
19:14<supermop>i use ogfx trains on occasion
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19:45<Samu>let me take a look at av8
19:52<Sylf>Elukka, lowering the running cost overall for the time being isn't good enough either?
19:52<Sylf>via NewGRF parameter
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19:56<Elukka>oh, it's good enough, i was just considering which option is better
19:57<Elukka>it's still the set i'm gonna use, and i'll probably go for the newer one for the nicer wagons
19:57<Elukka>i just wanted to make sure it wasn't supposed to have the feature and i just had a grf conflict or something
19:58<Elukka>got a lot of grfs to update since i haven't played in a couple years
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20:18<soupy>I've become embroiled in seeing how much I can do with only the passenger business. With horses in 1860.
20:22<kamnet>Supermop: Nah, no reason to code it for restrictions like that. It would dicourage others from making new aircraft sets
20:24<Supercheese>err do you mean me...?
20:25<kamnet>Er, yeah
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20:26<kamnet>to many super grf makers here LULZ
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20:36<Supercheese>heh, well I agree
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21:18<soupy>So, this is just a crazy idea, but would there be any way of modding OTTD to show how much cost, income, and profit is coming from a certain group in the vehicle listing?
21:19<Pikka>yes, there would
21:19<Pikka>I imagine :)
21:21*soupy mumbles something about there being a lot of modders in here that would love a case of beer.
21:21<Supercheese>There may already be a patch
21:22<Supercheese>In fact: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72855
21:22<soupy>And now I'm drooling.
21:24<soupy>I want to know if it would be more cost effective to replace my 18 busses (horses) with a short-haul train... that mod would be awesome.
21:26<soupy>It would sure be a lot easier on my CPU'
21:27<soupy>(As far as large scale operations goes.
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21:29<soupy>I have to say, I'm absolutely loving Cargodist now I've found the map graph thingy.
21:43<Supercheese>What on earth, I save my game, load my save, and the game forgets I had accepted the 1 year preview of a new vehicle...
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22:24<soupy>Gah, that's what bugs me about this game. 2 hours to set up 2 star networks and a train between the hubs for 200k / quarter, or 5 minutes to set up 10 boats to and from fishing grounds for 300k / quarter.
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>or 200 hours for a real train network...
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>or 2000 hours to fill a 4048^2 map
22:28<soupy>Whenever I start to really branch out with my rail network, I always get tired of designing intersections with the lowest chance of delays (junctions with speed-up lanes etc.), then I get tired of doing that and don't build anymore. Even though if I did it with the simplest T junction, it would only have a 1% effect on efficiency.
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>you're probably overthinking it
22:33<soupy>Exactly. I was pondering that earlier. I should probably just bang out my lines for startup and then start correcting them as I see major problems, which will be way further down the line for 95% of my long-hauls.
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22:36<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, sometimes you need to have a "good enough" attitude to get anything done at all
22:59<Pikka> http://pikkarail.com/?attachment_id=269 fun times
23:01<supermop>nice
23:04<Pikka>the hats could do with some more detail, rather than just being disks. :)
23:04<supermop>will hats have corks on them?
23:05<Pikka>yes
23:05<Pikka>animated corks
23:05<supermop>nothing less will do
23:05<supermop>do people drive utes up there?
23:05<supermop>ittle house should have a ute
23:06<Pikka>definitely utes
23:07<kamnet>utes with hats?
23:09<Pikka>http://pikkarail.com/?attachment_id=270
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23:12<soupy>Man I wish Yeti hadn't given me an <invalid cargo> error yesterday. Would have liked to have tried it properly but got paranoid that it would screw me over later with some other error.
23:12<TartarusMkII>Hi guys, I've got a question- I notice that in the default version of OpenTTD, some industries are difference sizes, like a coal mine may be larger, or a power plant may have more cooling towers. Is this aesthetic, or does this do something for its growth potential?
23:13<Pikka>purely aesthetic, TartarusMkII
23:13<TartarusMkII>Thankyou Pikka
23:14<TartarusMkII>Is there anything to keep in mind when choosing an industry to work with in the beggining other than distance?
23:15<Pikka>with the default industries? nope.
23:15<TartarusMkII>Okay thanks =D
23:16<soupy>Other than their current production, of course. Either way, it's pure luck, but if you get decent production increase with a 120 ton coal mine, it's of course going to be better than an 80 ton coal mine.
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23:53<TartarusMkII>I had an accident and now ruined trains are on my tracks- how do I get rid of them?
23:54-!-fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DE57F75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:55<Supercheese>they will disappear on their own shortly
23:55<Supercheese>you must live with them until they do
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 10 00:00:27 2015