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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-13

---Logopened Mon Apr 13 00:00:31 2015
00:16<Eddi|zuHause><Cheese_Flygon> And thought to myself "Hmm, Pokeballs" <-- uhmm... but wasn't "capsule" in dragonball?
00:18<Cheese_Flygon>I was banned from watching that show as a kid
00:18<Cheese_Flygon>My Mother was a bit... sensitive
00:18<Cheese_Flygon>For anyone that knows me personally
00:18<Cheese_Flygon>They know how ironically it turned out
00:22<Eddi|zuHause>i probably should be glad that i don't know you personally :p
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00:34<Supercheese>still cheesy eh Flygon?
00:35<Supercheese>I don't always make jokes. But when I do, they're bad puns. Stay cheesy my friends.
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01:05<V453000>._. people apparently dont spend enough time with openttd yet, so they need 3D prints
01:05<V453000>just wtf
01:06<V453000>throw away all the features, people dont need them :D
01:06<V453000>just give them gimp and all sprites to compose
01:07<Cheese_Flygon>Mate maaate
01:07<Cheese_Flygon>It'd be really cool
01:07<Cheese_Flygon>To have a holo-OpenTTD
01:08<Cheese_Flygon>The ground would be rendered like
01:08<Cheese_Flygon>Age of Empires II's ground
01:08<Cheese_Flygon>AoEIIHD's ground renderer sucks major ass
01:08<Cheese_Flygon>AoEII original's render looked far nicer :|
01:09<Supercheese>there's another AoE 2 HD expansion coming out innit?
01:10<Cheese_Flygon>But will it fixed the renderer?
01:10<V453000>how was original render different?
01:10<V453000>also there are tons of texture packs on the steam workshop so you can change it a lot, too
01:10<Cheese_Flygon>The original render was sharper
01:10<Cheese_Flygon>And way WAAAAY faster
01:11<Cheese_Flygon>Texture packs nothing
01:11<Cheese_Flygon>The issue IS the renderer
01:11<V453000>idk I have no problem with it
01:12<V453000>and I think there are bigger issues than some stupid ground
01:12<V453000>like multiplayer lag etc
01:12<Cheese_Flygon>AoEII shouldn't have troubles running on my laptop from 2011
01:12<Cheese_Flygon>AoEIIHD crashes outright
01:12<Cheese_Flygon>Or is very laggy when it is
01:12<V453000>no it doesnt
01:13<Cheese_Flygon>Yes, it does
01:13<V453000>I have laptop from like 2008 and it is just fine
01:13<Cheese_Flygon>No lag or anything?
01:13<V453000>at all
01:13<V453000>even with 300 pop
01:13<Cheese_Flygon>Wow O_o
01:14<Cheese_Flygon>Hell of a laptop
01:14<V453000>or the problem is nonexistent or at your side
01:14<Cheese_Flygon>On my old laptop, and on silver desktop, lagged like hell/crashed
01:14<Cheese_Flygon>Haven't tested on new desky or new lappy yet
01:14<Cheese_Flygon>Avoiding Steam on new lappy
01:15<Cheese_Flygon>On other house occupant's PC (was most powerful til I got my new PC's)
01:15<Cheese_Flygon>It also liked to lag the hell up
01:15<Cheese_Flygon>Didn't crash tho
01:17<V453000>do you have any link that would even describe the problem you are claiming?
01:17<V453000>I cant seem to find anything
01:17<V453000>but then I might be searching poorly
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01:43<V453000>or at least a mention that the renderer is different? :d
01:44<V453000>the only difference between terrains I can spot is that the HD one is smaller due to the higher resolution
01:47<Cheese_Flygon>Sorry for the delay
01:47<Cheese_Flygon>irl stuff came up
01:47<Cheese_Flygon>You might have a less keen eye, then :P
01:47<Cheese_Flygon>But, going by myself and other peoples I've spoken to personally
01:48<Cheese_Flygon>A fair few have issues with the game having terrible performance issues
01:51<V453000>must be some australian virus XD
01:52<Cheese_Flygon>Happened outside of Aussieland
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02:33<@planetmaker>Cheese_Flygon, don't play 4096^2 maps. Check in your cfg sprite_cache_size and increase its value
02:34<V453000>I dont think he was talking bout openttd pm :P
02:38<Supercheese>yeah the complaints were of AoE
02:51<supermop>i want to fabricate some more stuff
02:52<@planetmaker>lol, so he joins this channel and complains lengthy about other games?
02:53<V453000>yeah kind of :)
02:53<Supercheese>buy a printer if you really want more stuff, some get pretty cheap
02:54<Supercheese>I saw a neat new model on kickstarter, what was it...
02:54<Supercheese>ah this guy:
02:54<@planetmaker>I heard the newest thing is to actually build the 3D printer yourself :)
02:54<@planetmaker>Friend of mine just did
02:54<Supercheese>$1,678,098 pledged of $100,000 goal
02:54<Supercheese>O_o *
02:55<Supercheese>planetmaker: yeah I bought mine as a kit and built it last summer, it was quite fun
02:55<Supercheese>mine is basically a larger version of that one linked there... much larger
02:56<V453000> /feeling that people in this channel are nerds intensifies
02:56<Supercheese>why would you ever think people here are *not* nerds? :P
02:57<@planetmaker>^^ ;) Especially as the mirror should convince you otherwise already every morning :P
02:57<Cheese_Flygon>planetmaker: Mate, I'm the sort of guy that'd try a 32768*32768 map then be mildly disappointed at myself because I ran out of RAM
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02:59<Supercheese>it's in tin innit?
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03:05<chillcore>one day I'll add curvature and render the world ... the ground will thump and ripple every time a baby is born.
03:06<V453000>it will probably be slightly biased to asia and africa :P
03:07<V453000>-> obviously racist
03:07<chillcore>bonus points for clicking vehicles before they land
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03:11<Supercheese>atque exit
03:20<supermop>i like the idea of printing metal
03:20<supermop>i think id be better off with a benchtop cnc mill though
03:21<@planetmaker>you can have both (as separate machines) :)
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03:21<@planetmaker>and you want, too :P
03:22<V453000>im done
03:23<supermop>neither in a manhattan appartment when i move back, but i may try to sublet some studio or workshop space
03:23<Supercheese>renting space in a machine shop is quite possible, there are a couple new business ventures around here offering that
03:24<supermop>yeah - i'm bummed that 3rd ward in nyc went out of business
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03:25<Supercheese>a pretty neat co-op business model IMO
03:25<supermop>i love the idea of having workshops like a gym membership - so you can access all of the $$$ machine tools you'd never be able to buy for yourself
03:25<Supercheese>huge CNC mill with auto tool changer... insanely expensive
03:26<Supercheese>but spread the cost around like buying a share in an airplane and it becomes affordable
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03:30<supermop>when i was in school in st louis there was a machine shop with 6 or so of those tools, laser and plasma cutters,
03:30<supermop>laser cutter with 20 foot bed, 6 dof robot arm laser cutter
03:31<supermop>electroplating and heat treating stuff
03:31<supermop>and the owner let furniture students have stuff fabricated at cost
03:32<supermop>i still have many many boxes of machined aluminum parts for a shelving system i design in my 4th year
03:32<supermop>should probably sell them for scrap when the alu. price rebounds
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04:01*Supercheese wonders how difficult it would be to add grammatical cases to station strings
04:02<Supercheese>or rather support for them
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04:31<kamnet>man this is getting out of hand
04:35<kamnet>building this tracking table for seaplanes
04:38<V453000>just set up some series of improving speeds over the years, throw in some variety, and adjust everything else rather randomly :P
04:42<kamnet>No I'm making a chart of historic seaplanes, now that we've got an airport to use them in :-)
04:43<@planetmaker>oh, did supercheese already include it? :)
04:43<Supercheese>not quite yet
04:43<Supercheese>last commit was the autofences parameter
04:44<@planetmaker>ok :)
04:46<kamnet>But it's getting there
04:47<kamnet>And you're right, we're gonna need some bigger seaplane ports! -)
04:47<kamnet>I have no idea where I'm going to land this Hughes H-4 Herculese.
04:50<Supercheese>Ugh, game scripts really need to support grammatical cases
04:51<Supercheese>also I wonder why the various game script settings are always hardcoded
04:51<Supercheese>their strings that is
04:55<@planetmaker>Supercheese, iirc they *do* support cases
04:55<@planetmaker> should be valid for both, NewGRFs and GameScripts
04:55<@planetmaker>it just needs the original authors to support that
04:56<@planetmaker>the authors of the NewGRF or GameScript that is
04:59<Supercheese>Well, I am trying to manually add the language file with cases in my local copy of a gamescript and it does not appear to support them
04:59<Supercheese>I believe gamescripts lack support for any sort of {}
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05:01<dlhero>how do even start cleaning up this mess:
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05:07<@planetmaker>hm, I *thought* they would, Supercheese. Did you add the case support also to the header of the file (and does the language support it)?
05:08<Supercheese>Yes and yes, but to no avail
05:08<Supercheese>I can find no extant examples for GS langfile cases either
05:08<@planetmaker>hm, ok. drat
05:08<@planetmaker>dlhero, what does need cleaning up?
05:09<kamnet>That's what I was gonna ask :)
05:10<dlhero>planetmaker: well unfortunately due to a bug the graph links when enabled are not shown in in-game screenschots
05:12<@planetmaker>so first question: was that bug reported? :)
05:12<dlhero>not yet. i'm writing a descriptino now
05:13<dlhero>2nd problem is how to manage the loops a) when population/passengers are increasing
05:13<@planetmaker>sounds like a difficult question to answer. I suggest to ask that in our forums, with the savegame attached (and the image)
05:14<@planetmaker>at least difficult without looking at the actual savegame
05:14<dlhero>I tried double rails/more trains. but it didn't work
05:15<dlhero>also another bug on cargodist. it seems that tenport east/tenport south are not connected
05:15<dlhero>same for west and woods
05:15<@planetmaker>ah, and pretty please: do use png screenshots. jpg often blurs the essential details
05:15<dlhero>sorry about that. imgur
05:16<@planetmaker>and cargodist needs time. Just telling a train to connect two stations doesn't trigger the link. It needs actually to become active, thus the train needs to have gone at least once the route. And it depends on the re-calcluation settings
05:17<dlhero>the trains are in a loop they always visit the stations
05:17<dlhero>xm. must be a bug with the cargo flow legend then
05:21<@planetmaker>dlhero, no-one with any credibility will comment on link graph issues without looking at the savegame itself.
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10:53<kamnet>Hm, nobody's said anything for the last 5 hours
10:54<@Alberth>sure? I got "mode (+o Alberth) by ChanServ"
10:54<@planetmaker>that's the sound of silence :)
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11:06<Xaroth|Work>sup Alberth
11:06<Xaroth|Work>and planetmaker
11:06<@Alberth>no nice posts in the forum, mostly
11:06<@Alberth>also, cmake and luajit are being annoying
11:06<@planetmaker>where do you need those? freerct?
11:07<Samu>help me draw the bridge tile
11:11<@Alberth>it's that hard to draw a grey area?
11:12<@Alberth>or hard black, for that matter
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11:46<Samu>how can objects be built under bridges and still display the bridge correctly?
11:47<Samu>WaterFeature _water_feature[CF_END];
11:48<@planetmaker>Samu, for the same reason anything below the bridge is displayed correctly. Why should it be otherwise?
11:49<Samu>i can't make the bridge appear :(
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11:54<@planetmaker>ah. Ok, but that's a patched OpenTTD, yes?
11:55<@planetmaker>NewObjects have a height assigned and OpenTTD checks that property to decide whether they can be placed under a bridge or not
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11:57<Samu>I'm looking at newgrf_canal.cpp, i need a similar property for lock tiles
11:58<@planetmaker>as locks are hard-coded objects, you simply need to allow bridges over them. Or at least at a certain height. Done.
11:58<Samu> this happens
12:00<Samu>I'm unsure where to look for in the code
12:00<@planetmaker>sprite sorting maybe
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12:02<ST2>vehicles will levitate? cool feature :)
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12:52<Samu>i'm missing a property
12:52<Samu>or attribute, I dunno
12:54<Samu>GetTileZ - this is getting the height as the coordinates
12:54<Samu>but, the lower part of a lock has an added height, or is supposed to have
12:55<Samu>apparently it doesn't have it, or it's not set correctly, or I dunno
12:55<Samu>I really don't know how to change the properties
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12:55<@planetmaker>docks don't have any height defined. They don't need it
12:56<Samu>lock, not dock
12:56<Samu>they need now
12:56<Samu>locks at least
12:57<Samu>I want to allow bridges over locks
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13:01<Samu>the middle tile is on a slope, calculating the corect height here is tricky :(
13:03<@planetmaker>Samu, no... there are the tile accessors which tell you the height. It's usually the one of the highest corner
13:04<@planetmaker>don't even think of re-inventing height calculation for sloped tiles for that purpose :)
13:04<@planetmaker>thus the height is tile_height * height_of_stuff_on_tile
13:04<@planetmaker>errr... +
13:05<Samu>GetTileZ on the middle tile versus GetBridgeHeight on the middle tile
13:05<Samu>they differ
13:06<Samu>min difference is... 2, I think
13:06<Samu>for the upper tile, difference is 1
13:07<Samu>ah, GetTileZ is getting me the lowest value
13:08<Samu>so confusing for me
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13:16<@Alberth>it helps if you don't make assumptions on how a function works, but instead read its documentation
13:17<Samu>z_lower_bridge = 3, z_middle_bridge = 3, z_upper_bridge = 3
13:18<@planetmaker>Alberth, that's too simple! I mean... everyone could go and read! really!
13:20<Samu>z_lower_tile = 1, z_middle_tile = 1, z_upper_tile = 2
13:24<Samu>if (z_lower_bridge <= z_lower_tile + 1) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
13:29<Samu>z_lower_tile + 1
13:29<Samu>okay, so this is for when building a lock
13:29<Samu>building a lock under a bridge
13:29<Samu>building a bridge over a lock is where things get complicated :(
13:30<Samu>I don't know how to get this z_lower_tile + 1
13:32<Samu>if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) > z_start) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
13:32<Samu>how do I put the +1 for the lock lower part in here?
13:37<Samu>line 419 of tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp
13:37<Samu>it is happening before checking if it's a water tile :(
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27235 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-04-13 19:45:39 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latin - 123 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 54 changes by andrej
13:45<@DorpsGek>ukrainian - 130 changes by Fixer
13:46<Samu> case MP_OBJECT: {
13:46<Samu> if (GetTileMaxZ(tile) + spec->height > z_start) goto not_valid_below;
13:46<@planetmaker>Samu, it's a bit pointless, if you paste line by line our code here
13:47<Samu>objects have a height spec
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14:01<Supercheese>Samu: I have a patch that permits bridges over locks
14:01<Samu>oh, nice, give me
14:01<Supercheese>In the function: static void DrawTile_Water(TileInfo *ti)
14:01<Supercheese>you need to add DrawBridgeMiddle(ti); under case WATER_TILE_LOCK:
14:02<Supercheese>and, if desired, change the rules about placement of locks under extant bridges by modifying line 291
14:02<Supercheese>oh this is in water_cmd.cpp
14:03<Supercheese>forgot to mention that at the beginning
14:03<Samu>omg really that easy?
14:03<Supercheese>worked for me...
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14:05<Supercheese>that patch permits bridges over both locks and ship depots
14:07<Samu>why was it so easy, omg i'm such a dumb guy
14:07<Samu>let me show you what i have so far
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14:10<Samu>sorry, i'm slow at this create patch, diff, copy paste stuff:
14:11<Samu>the bridge is finally fisplayed
14:11<Samu>now my issue is building a bridge over the lower part of a lock
14:11<Samu>can't allow it to build if the bridge height is not high enough
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14:16<V453000>hy dudez
14:18<V453000>managed to finish some deadlines at work, rawr time approaches :>
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14:20<@Alberth>brace yourselves, for rawr awesomeness!
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14:35<Samu>if (IsLock(tile) && GetLockPart(tile) == LOCK_PART_LOWER && GetTileMaxZ(tile) + 1 > z_start) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_BRIDGE_TOO_LOW_FOR_TERRAIN);
14:37<Samu>it werks!
14:38<Samu>the ships are crossing the pavement of the bridge :(
14:42<Samu> - for this part I'm done :)
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14:44<Samu>and the bridge pillars
14:44<Samu>they're going through the locks lol
14:44<Samu>craving into it
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14:56<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:03<Samu>how do you describe this problem?
15:03<Samu>ship is supposed to be hidden
15:03<Samu>it is hidden for the lower part, but not for the middle and upper parts
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15:03<V453000>who builds bridges over locks XD
15:04<Samu>no one
15:04<Samu>but soon
15:04<andythenorth>nice testing
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15:16<Samu>i got two problems to fix: bridge pillars craving into the lower part of lock, and ships not being hidden under the bridge for the middle and upper parts of lock
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15:28<andythenorth>@seen danmack
15:28<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
15:29<Samu>real world bridges over locks
15:30<andythenorth>slow forums day eh
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15:39<andythenorth>@calc 26 / 66
15:39<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.393939393939
15:39<andythenorth>hmm, not done yet
15:53*andythenorth puzzled by newgrf again
15:53<andythenorth>random_trigger cb for industry tiles
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15:54<andythenorth>what is this switch doing?
16:04<frosch123>it rerandomised one bit upon the tileloop
16:05<andythenorth>I wonder why it’s bothering
16:05<frosch123>but it should have at leas two return values
16:06<andythenorth>I read it as ‘this switch is pointless'
16:06<frosch123>maybe you use that bit in some other callback
16:07<andythenorth>_tile_anim_random_delay switch above?
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16:08<frosch123>anyway, i forgot how smart nml actually is... maybe that rerandomise does not work anyway
16:08<andythenorth>I am dubious :)
16:08<frosch123>maybe it only randomly starts the animation
16:09<andythenorth>if that is a correct switch, I’ve been misunderstanding something
16:09<andythenorth>unless simply handling the cb causes the re-randomise
16:09<andythenorth>in which case still no switch is needed, just return CB_RESULT_DO_NOTHING
16:11<V453000>nuts repo 7 gb
16:11<V453000>yeti 9
16:11<V453000>ok yeti 7.5
16:11<andythenorth>the resulting animation is actually random
16:11<V453000>might want to move it away from ssd :(
16:11*andythenorth thinks this effect is not needed
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16:12*andythenorth will be deleting
16:12<andythenorth>moar FIRS deletions
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16:15<andythenorth>thanks btw frosch123
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16:25<Samu>who's an expert about combining sprites stuff?
16:25<Samu>help me hide that ship
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16:51*andythenorth wonders how many random bits are in extra_callback_info1 for anim_control
16:52<andythenorth>and whether (extra_callback_info1 & 71) produces a useful value
16:56<frosch123>you mean 0x71 ?
16:56<frosch123>& 71 is really weird :p
16:57<andythenorth>it’s the animation length
16:57<frosch123>well, ok, 0x45 is not much more weird than 0x71
16:57<andythenorth>it’s coming out of the code templating currently
16:57<frosch123>so you want %, not &
16:57<andythenorth>but might be too naive
16:58<andythenorth>switch is supposed to pick a random frame, once
16:58<andythenorth>(when construction state changes)
16:58<andythenorth>then loop normally after that
16:58<andythenorth>it appears to not do that
16:58<andythenorth>setting INDTILE_FLAG_RANDOM_ANIMATION flag appears to make no difference
17:00<andythenorth>eh % works perfectly
17:01<frosch123>you can replace that whole switch with a single "return extra_callback_info1 % 71"
17:01<frosch123>"abc: return abc" is pretty pointless
17:01<andythenorth>even better :D
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17:04<andythenorth>hrm, that makes a templating headache :)
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17:35<Samu>who can help?
17:45<Samu>how do i hide the ship under the bridge
17:47<Supercheese>maybe check the DrawBridgeMiddle function
17:47<Supercheese>see how its sprite stacking goes
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17:53<Xaroth|Work>I don't get how that image is, at all, possible
17:54<Xaroth|Work>looks as though area the boat is traversing is near-same-height as the road
17:54<Xaroth|Work>while it should be a level lower
17:55<Xaroth|Work>but that might be the side walls acting up
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17:56<Samu>wow DrawBridgeMiddle is big
17:58<Samu>tile height again :(
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18:08<Samu>draw roof, the component of the bridge which is logically between the vehicle and the camera
18:08<Samu>is this what I have to edit?
18:11<Supercheese>perhaps, perhaps not
18:15<Supercheese>it certainly seems to be the function that deals with the behavior producing the issue you are describing
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18:16<Supercheese>Make sure the arguments there that are passed to AddSortableSpriteToDraw are appropriate
18:17<Supercheese>particularly bridge_z and other z-related values
18:19<Supercheese>you may need to add a special if check for when bridges are over locks and modify the z-stacking accordingly
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>if the bounding boxes overlap, you have no chance to fix issues like this
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>it is provably impossible
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>(there are also cases of non-overlapping bounding boxes that are impossible to solve)
18:26<Samu>there is no problem with the road vehicle
18:28<+glx>they are way smaller
18:28<Samu>okay let me build a train
18:32<Samu>nope, it's just the ship
18:33<Samu>ship flickers when train or truck is above the bridge, but they don't overlap
18:33<Samu>i just have to hide the ship :(
18:43<Samu>or maybe they overlap?
18:44<Samu>they overlap? the boxes?
18:44<Supercheese>I am out of advice to give, sorry
18:44<Samu>i'm looking at z values, it's complicated
18:44<Samu>one is a darn slope
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19:00<Samu>Warning 1 warning : invalid argidx -1 (FATAL) C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\slovak.txt 3065 1 langs
19:01<Samu>suddenly I can't compile?
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19:02<Samu>i didn't edit slovak.txt, I don't even speak slovak
19:02<Samu>what happened?
19:03<+glx>it's just a warning
19:03<Samu>Warning 2 warning : language is not compiled (warning) C:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\slovak.txt 3065 1 langs
19:03<Samu>Error 3 error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 2. C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets 170 5 langs
19:03<Samu>doesn't work now
19:04<Supercheese>well, what *did* you edit?
19:04<+glx>he just updated trunk :)
19:05<+glx>but failing lang doesn't stop compilation anyway
19:06<Samu>STR_TOWN_VIEW_TOWN_GROWS_EVERY :{BLACK}Mesto rastie každ{P ý é ých} {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} {P deň dni dní}
19:08<Samu>it doesn't let me compile
19:08<Samu>There were build errors
19:08<Samu>what can i do?
19:10<Supercheese>oh my word, another Bad_Brett preview
19:10<Supercheese>amazing pictures as usual
19:10<Supercheese>still no grf
19:11<+glx>trunk compiles for me
19:11<+glx>lang failure doesn't stop compilation
19:12<+glx>but I'm using VS2012
19:14<Supercheese>slovak fails for me too
19:14<Supercheese>but the .exe compiles fine
19:14<+glx>yes I'm fixing it :)
19:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by glx :: r27236 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2015-04-14 01:20:23 +0200 )
19:20<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27235): WT3 string validation
19:22<Samu>ah nice it works
19:23<Samu>whatever string validation is, it fixed it
19:24<+glx>WT3 should not have accepted these translations, but it's not perfect :)
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20:18<Supercheese>Well, the seaplanes don't quite line up with the docks in all orientations, but I'll add it anyway
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21:54<kamnet>I'm thinking that the docks should probably line up right in the middle of the tile, and a larger pad of some sort built to meet the planes where the nose rests.
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23:21<Supercheese>well, I'll commit version 1 and can always go back and tweak things
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 14 00:00:32 2015