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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-14

---Logopened Tue Apr 14 00:00:32 2015
00:08<kamnet>Sounds good. :D
00:10<kamnet>Supercheese, I've got 140 flying boats and floatplanes documented currently.
00:10<Supercheese>Well, graphics are always the hardest part of any grf
00:11<Supercheese>I have spend ~10 times as much time wrangling pixels than actually developing working code for OGFX+ Airports
00:11<kamnet>True, but I figure if I get this out there, maybe somebody decides to take interest. even if it's just one or two at a time.
00:12<Supercheese>I don't think you need the OS2U Kingfisher on your list, I was it there a while back. No transport capacity on that plane ;)
00:12<Supercheese>I saw it*
00:12<kamnet>Some of them are a stretch, yes.
00:15<kamnet>Now that I've got as many as I do, I can thin the ranks a little.
00:17<kamnet>But most of the WWI stuff didn't actually have a civilian version, nor did most of it make it out of surplus for conversion.
00:17<kamnet>But they all look nice.
00:18<Supercheese>I like the Do-X
00:18<Supercheese>crazy plane
00:18<Supercheese>definitely would be fun in OTTD
00:18<kamnet>Yeah, a few of these are just absolutely nuts.
00:19<kamnet>The Do X, Princess, Dutchess.
00:19<Supercheese>Do-X is a classic example of, "You can make anything fly if you strap enough engines on it."
00:20<kamnet>Earlier I found a proposal for a 24-engine SARO that fits between the Princess and the Duchess.
00:20<Flygon>Can we implement the Flying Ductman? Introduction date around 21AD
00:21<kamnet>Amazing how many of these planes literally crashed and burned, though.
00:21<Flygon>Going by Age of Empires
00:22<Supercheese>The museum that now has the Spruce Goose is not too far from me here
00:22<Supercheese>now there's a flying boat
00:22<kamnet>*Not made of real Spruce
00:23<Supercheese>well, it has to rhyme yaknow ;)
00:23<Flygon>Wait, that's an actual thing???
00:23<kamnet>Howard Huges looked around and said "That's not a flying boat... THIS is a flying boat!"
00:23<Flygon>I thought it was something The Simpsons made up
00:23<Flygon>Hahaha what the fuck, wow
00:24<Supercheese>note DC-3 at bottom
00:24<kamnet>I'm honestly surprised that nobody ever took advantage of it. Never even flew it. *SMH*
00:24<Supercheese>at least I am pretty sure that's a DC-3
00:24<Supercheese>it flew, once
00:24<Supercheese>by that point though Hughes was clinically insane
00:25<kamnet>He may have been. But the ship was genius
00:25<Flygon>At least it doesn't catch fire when rained on
00:26<Supercheese>what did?
00:26<Flygon>The Spruce Goose
00:26<Flygon>Despite what Mister Burns stated otherwise
00:28<Flygon>Shame it'll never fly again
00:29<Supercheese>it'd perhaps be cheaper just to build another with modern techniques
00:29<Supercheese>rather than try and restore the original
00:30<Supercheese>FAA would probably have a fit though with a craft that large
00:30<Supercheese>they are finicky with licensing
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00:30<Flygon>It's not the size that had me thinking they'd panic
00:31<Flygon>It's the material
00:31*Flygon resumes cursing how hard hair is to animate
00:33<Flygon>Supercheese: Incidentally
00:33<Supercheese>you're probably echoing the Pixar staff when they decided to create Brave
00:33<Flygon>With the H220 restoration here
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00:33<Flygon>The proposed one
00:33<Supercheese>"f***ing hair!" say the animators
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00:33<Flygon>There's people suggesting just to build a H221... because of how unique H220 is
00:33<Flygon>And that regauging from 1600mm to 1435mm would require partially rebuidling the loco
00:34<Flygon>H220 being an utter monster of a loco
00:34<Flygon>Most powerful loco in Australia from 1939 through to 1995 :B
00:35<Flygon>It's just not as well known as it's older Sisters tho (the S-class (Steam))
00:35<Flygon>Also, RE: The hair
00:35<Flygon>Trying to draw inbetweens for a 2D animation
00:36<Flygon>And keeping track of which hairstrand is which is hell
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01:00<Supercheese>I thought Bananas accepted .tar bundles... maybe I'm doing something wrong?
01:03<Supercheese>something is not right here, Bananas is not liking either .zip or .tar bundle uploads
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01:13<kamnet>Not liking my ISP today
01:13<Supercheese>Oh Bananas hates apostrophes, that's it
01:14<kamnet>The bugger
01:16<kamnet>Now we just need bigger seaplane ports
01:16<Supercheese>I applied a few edits to the docks, like putting railings on both sides
01:17<kamnet>Just read up on the Beechcraft Model 18. World record for longest continual model production
01:17<Supercheese>the problem with the Commuter statemachine is the airports load out in the middle of nowhere
01:17<kamnet>And every one of them could be refitted with pontoons
01:17<Supercheese>and they move about on all sides of their loading zones
01:17<Supercheese>so no docks can extend out to them without also having planes plow straight through the docks...
01:18<Supercheese>guess they load via dinghy :P
01:18<kamnet>Well, i was told that in the regular commuter passengers were just transported underground... :D
01:18<kamnet>Maybe they now have to swim to shore!
01:20<Supercheese>no, at all the commuter ports I've ever flown out of we just walked right up to the plane
01:20<Supercheese>so it makes good sense there for landplanes
01:21<Supercheese>even at SeaTac IIRC the planes just parked out on the tarmac and we walked in to the terminal
01:21<Supercheese>and it sucked because, well, Seattle... rain rain rain
01:21<Supercheese>when I flew on the small regional turboprop planes that is
01:22<Supercheese>you can see the Bombardier Q400s there just park there and no gangways extend
01:24<kamnet>That's a nice airport
01:25<Supercheese>oh and kamnet: a new version of SNO is out on Bananas that has bare water tiles useful for fencing in the seaplane ports and guarding against flooding
01:26<Supercheese>oooooh I also think I may have included another feature where seagulls randomly spawn on mapgen
01:26<Supercheese>yeah that snuck in there, forgot to mention it in the changelog
01:27<kamnet>*ponders* I dunno if some people will like that one.
01:27<kamnet>I like it though
01:28<Supercheese>you can disable it
01:28<Supercheese>via parameter
01:28<kamnet>Hey, you got seagulls on water... what about carrion in deserts?
01:28<Supercheese>vultures eh
01:28<Supercheese>recolor 'em black
01:28<kamnet>Random birds with openttd trees
01:29<kamnet>*OpenGFX Trees
01:29<kamnet>Fish spawning near fishing grounds?
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01:31<Supercheese>was debating a whale breaching object
01:32<Supercheese>would make for a great animation
01:32<Supercheese>but I am focusing on airports for the time being
01:38<kamnet>A whole pack of random animations wold be kinda fun Supercheese.
01:38<kamnet>morning V453000
01:41<Supercheese>I hope I haven't missed any critical points about usage
01:42<V453000>nice stuf :)
01:42<V453000>today forecast: RAWR all over the territory
01:43<V453000>occassional PURRstorms
01:43<supermop>seaguls over fishing grounds would be nice
01:44<Supercheese>eh yeah but they may block ship movement
01:44<@planetmaker>hm... fishing grounds. Fish farms maybe rather?
01:44<Supercheese>you can place them manually so as to not impede the trawlers
01:45<Supercheese>I'm still not sure how I have commit access when I am not explicitly enumerated as a manager/developer/contributor at
01:46<Supercheese>but things evidently work
01:48<@planetmaker> how they do look like
01:48<Supercheese>I cannot access that photo
01:49<@planetmaker>ah... always the same, wrong link format. This probably works: (it's a video actually)
01:50<@planetmaker>so one can also mimic the animation of the lights :)
01:53<@planetmaker>Supercheese, and well, made you manager of the airports project as well
01:55<@planetmaker>Supercheese, did you know that one can use canal just as fine to fence an area in open water?
01:55<Supercheese>Sure... but you get ugly banks surrounding it
01:56<@planetmaker>with the additional benefit that it is still navigable by ships. And no banks when adjacent to water. But yes, towards an airport; didn't think of that
01:56<Supercheese>also the canal tiles have different water colors
01:59<@planetmaker>also true :)
01:59<@planetmaker>the seaplane airport looks nice :)
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02:14<kamnet>Supercheese, what about a steam-powered seaplane? :D
02:15<Supercheese>sounds steamy
02:15<kamnet>A Travel Air 4000 was modified with a steam-powered engine and sold to a Japanese buyer in 1934.
02:15<Supercheese>not sure the forums can handle that kind of content ;)
02:18<supermop>I guess it tool them a few iterations to figure out where to put the doors
02:22<kamnet>Rather phallic, isn't it?
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02:32<V453000>hm, so CC mask for bridges ._.
02:33<V453000>pain in the ass much
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02:41<V453000>only Tubular, Cantliever, Suspension and Concrete bridge needs CC masks, right?
02:41<V453000>the other bridges dont
02:41<V453000>(or can have the CC mask empty)
02:41<Pikka>do concrete?
02:41<V453000>yeah it is a part of suspended bridge in some cases
02:42<Pikka>I guess none of them really need it. you just won't be able to see the difference between the different versions otherwise ;)
02:42<V453000>if lengths are 7+m*4
02:42<V453000>m/n :)
02:42<V453000>well yeah
02:42<V453000> which is kind of bad I think
02:42<V453000>esp with the cantlievers and tubulars
02:43<Pikka> most of the bridges are pointless anyway. if you're making a newgrf, just disable some of them, or have specific graphics for them? If you're doing a base set, well then...
02:44<V453000>rawr is a newgrf but I only replace sprites so I can easily convert to a base set eventually
02:44<Pikka>oh I see @ concreete bridge in suspension. how ridiculous
02:44<V453000>just one middle piece :)
02:44<Pikka>totally doesn't match in zbase :)
02:45<V453000>I know
02:45<V453000>the suspended bridges are utterly broken in zbase anyway
02:45<V453000>the overlay doesnt even fit
02:45<Pikka>yes, too high
02:46<Pikka>well. that's zbase for you
02:46<Pikka>it's a good proof of 32bpp-concept
02:47<V453000>yes :)
02:57<supermop>somehow ive got it into my head that my mom wants an abstract 3d printed monorail necklace for her birthday
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03:02<supermop>i've spent much of the day trying to make it less phallic
03:09<kamnet>I don't think that's really possible.
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03:39<supermop>non-phallic enough?
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03:56<supermop>need to make a little plastic ball joint to fit in there as a coupler
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04:10<argoneus>phallic monorails are my favourite
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05:31<Flygon>supermop: Gimmie a sec, my net is being a butt
05:31<Flygon>It looks like a Mars Bar
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08:11<jk_>hi, my openttd server ignores settings
08:11<jk_>from config file and applied via console
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09:45<supermop_>im off in a bit
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10:14<Flygon><Flygon> Ooooo
10:14<Flygon><Flygon> Thunderstorm
10:14<Flygon><Flygon> Or an airplane exploded
10:14<Flygon><Flygon> Hard to tell when you live next to an airport
10:14<Flygon>I live in the world of OTTD :B
10:16<Flygon>Seriously tho, my planes love to crash <_>
10:23<Samu>i want to unify the construction rules for waterways
10:24<Samu>but at the same time I want to ease waterways construction
10:24<Samu>building a dock
10:25<Samu>should it auto-build a canal if there's none?
10:25<Samu>or if no water?
10:25<Samu>kinda like locks?
10:25<Samu>what about on removal?
10:25<Samu>remove the canal? leave the canal?
10:27<Samu>i know that building a canal has a costly £5000 base to it, but I hope i could convince devs to change it
10:30<Samu>i want to treat the canal the basic foundation of waterways
10:30<Samu>much like a road bit
10:30<Samu>or a rail track
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11:00<Samu>guys, what you rather prefer
11:00<Samu>demolishing a lock, leave the canal behind or remove it?
11:02<Samu>i like the idea of leaving canal behind, but...
11:02<Samu>at the same time I don't like it when that's the only thing left behind
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12:50<Samu>can it be simplified?
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12:52<andythenorth>coffee cat
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12:54<andythenorth>@seen danmack
12:54<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 16 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
12:55<@Alberth>always friendly saying hello :)
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13:00<andythenorth>Alberth: you can’t fix the industry chains view to handle cargos that change when industry is constructed? (it’s non-deterministic)
13:01<@planetmaker>andythenorth, the industry chain view is a global thing, working by industry type, not by single industry
13:01<@Alberth>it's an industry-type view rather than industry-specific
13:01<@planetmaker>good evening :)
13:01<@Alberth>oddink planetmaker
13:01<andythenorth>presumably there could be a mapping of all cargos that _might_ be accepted/produced
13:02<andythenorth>but it would have to be maintained dynamically
13:02<andythenorth>I dunno
13:02<andythenorth>I think changing cargos is a BAD FEATURE
13:02<@planetmaker>andythenorth, yes, as there are callbacks involved, it is too dynamic to be possible to map. It could change by the time of day even
13:02<@Alberth>current layout is designed to have 3 outputs max
13:03<andythenorth>I _am_ going to bin that FIRS feature
13:03<andythenorth>sooner not later
13:03<andythenorth>also we should deprecate that cb
13:03<andythenorth>or at least put a health-warning on it, that it causes failure demand
13:03<andythenorth>I would do it, but I can’t wiki
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13:12<frosch123>moin :)
13:17<Samu> if (HasTileWaterClass(tile) && GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL && !IsTileType(tile, MP_INDUSTRY) && GetTileOwner(tile) != OWNER_NONE) {
13:17<Samu>is this gonna do the same as
13:18<Samu>first 4 lines
13:19<frosch123>andythenorth: we could call the callback in purchase list and make it return pairs of (cargotype, always/sometimes accepted/produced)
13:20<@planetmaker>frosch123, that still makes it rely on correctness of the code, thus it could still fool openttd. However, I guess, it's a nice and good idea
13:21<frosch123>we have to rely on newgrf doing stuff correctly in many cases :p
13:21<frosch123>that's why articulated vehicles are such a pain :p
13:25<V453000>how can you do something not correctly with articulated vehicles? :D
13:25*V453000 is interested in how many times did he score that so far
13:26<frosch123>i think you are immune to that
13:26<frosch123>usually you only break stuff when trying to code bad features
13:27<V453000>power randomization is not bad
13:27<V453000>still want power_decreases_over_time_after_a_year_without_servicing feature :P
13:28<frosch123>you could fade vehicles into transparency
13:28<frosch123>if you don't service them, you won't e able to find them anymore
13:28<V453000>I am afraid people would like that
13:29<frosch123>or turn them into text "service me, fu"
13:30<V453000>I need something functional
13:30<V453000>visuals can be additive to that, but it mainly needs to work
13:30<frosch123>well, as said, the only thing available would be loading time :)
13:31<Samu>help me out
13:31<V453000>am still wondering how much magic can I do with it changing only upon visits of stations/depots
13:31<Samu>is this the same as
13:31<frosch123>@kick samu like this?
13:31-!-Samu was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [like this?]
13:31<V453000>e.g. train would be considered serviced for 5 trips XD
13:32<V453000>that possible?
13:32<V453000>and after every trip it would get worse
13:32<frosch123>the only "storage" you have are random bits
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13:33<@Alberth>will you nicely wait for your scheduled service? :)
13:33<frosch123>you can code "decrease power by 10% with 25% chance on every stop"
13:33<Samu>omg fuck you idiot
13:33<frosch123>sorry :)
13:33<V453000>amazing attitude Samu :)
13:33<+glx>Samu: be careful :)
13:34<V453000>frosch123: but servicing cant play a role in that?
13:34<frosch123>V453000: time since last service can
13:34<V453000>thats good
13:34<V453000>that is basically everything I need then I think
13:34<V453000>if time since last service > whatever, chance >0%
13:34<frosch123>but you can only change it somewhat randomly, not exactly
13:34<Samu>i get so frustrated trying to get this right
13:35<V453000>I see
13:35<V453000>bad that
13:35<frosch123>and same with the servicing itself
13:35<frosch123>it cannot immediately increse to 100%
13:35<frosch123>but only after stopping multiple times :p
13:35<andythenorth>frosch123: wrt calling the cb, is it worth it? o_O $someone also has to fix industry chains view...
13:35<V453000>well that can be hacked relatively easily in the game, but ugly
13:35<frosch123>so, servicing once does not work
13:35<frosch123>you have to service regulary
13:36<frosch123>could also be a feature :p
13:36<V453000>eh, clunky
13:36<frosch123>but in any case, due to the randomness, it will always be weird and confusing :)
13:36<V453000>I guess chance that we get proper breakdowns in the actual game is about 0% eh
13:36<@Alberth>depot visit wouldn't work?
13:37<@Alberth>V453000: depends on your notion of 'proper' :p
13:37<V453000>anything that makes actual sense
13:37<frosch123>Alberth: the only operation on the "storage" variable is: rerandomise these bits
13:37<V453000>having trains decrease power after some time, would make sense for example :P
13:37<frosch123>so if you want to set or clear a bit, you only have 50% chance succeeding :p
13:38<Samu>why did you get me into coding? you don't care after all
13:39<Samu>should've known better
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13:44<V453000>Alberth plays with breakdowns, he should code better breakdowns
13:44<V453000>or frog? .P
13:45<frosch123>it's not on my todo list
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27237 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-14 19:45:15 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latin - 7 changes by Supercheese
13:45<frosch123>considering its length, chances are pretty slim
13:48<V453000>frosch123: show me your todolist, I will explain to you what can be left out! :D
13:56<V453000>all of that can wait
13:56<frosch123>nope :p
13:56<V453000>think of the benefits
13:56<frosch123>exactly :)
13:56<V453000>well shit :P
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13:58<V453000>OMG, all beware the golden moment when andythenorth and DanMacK both meet in the channel simultaneously. Cat has been found and the world goes to shit.
13:58*andythenorth tells V453000 to bugger off
14:00<@planetmaker>frosch123, I asked ammler about pw for pypi access of nml. I'm curious if/when I'll get an answer. the pw reset request however seems to end up at no address which I have access to
14:02<frosch123>ok :)
14:02<frosch123>in the worst case we have to rename the package to py3-nml :p
14:03<@Alberth>wouldn't yexo be the logical person with the pw?
14:03<@planetmaker>two names seem registered there, devzone and ammler. But well... no access to either. I guess next step would be asking pypi admins to do something about that :)
14:04<@planetmaker>Alberth, yes, I thought so, too. But pypi gives those two names. I could write an e-mail to yexo, too... and/or hirundo
14:04<@Alberth>some years back, they were compromised, and all accounts were reset
14:04<@planetmaker>probably that's why the PW I guessed doesn't work
14:05<@Alberth>they had a grace-ish period for some time, but that's long ago
14:09<andythenorth>just crack pypi :P
14:09<andythenorth>it’s probably vulnerable
14:09<andythenorth>most things are
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14:11<@planetmaker>Alberth, we didn't care about pypi for long... since nml 0.2.4
14:11<@Alberth>yeah, I would not have added it at all, tbh
14:18<@planetmaker>Alberth, it's not necessarily a bad idea to have it on pypi. But yeah... it's there now. If I can regain access, it could probably be automated to be uploaded from release builds
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14:34<Wolf01>hi hi
14:35<Wolf01>andythenorth: what the actual f...?
14:35<andythenorth>nice part eh?
14:36<andythenorth>I actually found a need for some in a MOC recently
14:36<andythenorth>but I don’t own any
14:36<andythenorth>makes a spacer on pins
14:36<Wolf01>I looked for a gauge for the blue technic pins for ages
14:36<Wolf01>and there it is :D
14:38<andythenorth>that part is 100% new, but this part did same thing
14:39<Wolf01>is it me or is it really hard to find cross axles 7M?
14:40<Wolf01>I needed some of them for my new moc, but now I rebuild that section
14:41<andythenorth>regular bluish-grey 7L? Loads of those
14:42<andythenorth>£0.01 each
14:43<Wolf01>me too, but only on technic "untouchable" sets, on little sets I purchase mainly for pieces there is one every 4 sets
14:43*andythenorth buys 50 at once :)
14:44*andythenorth has an embarassing amount of technic parts
14:45<Wolf01>I filled out any possible space where to put legos at work place, so I must limit myself, my coworker is building a huge moc and is buying lots of pieces from bl
14:46<Wolf01>the next set I'll buy for pieces could be this
14:46<V453000>when you complete a goal in BusyBee, what happens with the old goal?
14:46<V453000>does it just get fulfilled and disappear?
14:47<V453000>I know, I could just try but playing the game, you know
14:49<V453000>hm yeah
14:49<V453000>it would be kind of cool if the goals stayed
14:49<V453000>so you would have to keep the stuff running
14:50<V453000>now that I am done with goal to power plant A, I can as well just remove the lines
14:50<andythenorth>I think a *different* GS could stack goals
14:50<andythenorth>basically tetris
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14:50<andythenorth>‘level up’
14:50<andythenorth>Busy Bee is pretty simple, and isn’t supposed to be the definitive GS :)
14:51<V453000>sure :) looks quite fun though
14:51<andythenorth>rather, I am hoping people clone it and hack it
14:57<@Alberth>they seem to do, but don't publish :p
15:00<V453000>some dude which makes the czech railway set posted a screenshot of CETS-like turning ... I thought he copied it from CETS but asked, and he said he made it himself
15:00<V453000>the last post in the thread is me asking if he could show me the code XD
15:01<V453000>guess not
15:01<V453000>viva la gpl
15:01<V453000>perhaps I am just impatient
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i think the czech set is actually older than CETS
15:03<V453000>this is a new edition in 32bpp
15:03<V453000>the old one is older probably, yes :)
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i'm switching stuff up with some russian stuff by George
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a polish set that looked quite impressive on first glance
15:05<V453000>the czech stuff is nice but it is like 2 trains
15:06<V453000>he just posted one screenshot of the turning, but I was curious regardless
15:19<andythenorth>so ships with n holds?
15:19<andythenorth>or 2
15:19*andythenorth is redesigning Squid
15:19<andythenorth>because it’s flawed
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15:57<@Terkhen>good night
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22:17<Supercheese>Seemingly I should increment the savegame compatibility indicator
22:17<Supercheese>short of trial and error, is there any way to determine when you should do so?
22:18<Supercheese>also since the versioning is automatically controlled now I do not know what to set it to
22:41<Supercheese>kamnet_: If you're around, you've got some a missing link around [url]Rostislav Alexeyev[/url] in
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22:42<kamnet_>Yep, I just haven't had a chance to fix it yet, in the middle of podcasting. :D
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22:50<kamnet_>Whee, podcast done. Now my computer has to settle down. Everything wanting ot crash
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23:41<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: as a rule of thumb, whenever you shuffle around stuff so existing things on the map get changed
23:41<Eddi|zuHause>basically... every time unless you have proven it to be compatible
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 15 00:00:34 2015