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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-15

---Logopened Wed Apr 15 00:00:34 2015
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02:11<kamnet>Good morning
02:25<@planetmaker>Supercheese, re savegame compatibility: yes, possibly you should. It *should* stay savegame compatible, if you add new items (airports) only ever as the last item to the code
02:25<Supercheese>Sadly I have added them in the middle, for ordering purposes
02:25<Supercheese>I wanted to keep all Small airports together
02:26<@planetmaker>don't be much worried about it. Up the min_compatible_version to the current one and that's it
02:26<Supercheese>that is what I did :)
02:26<@planetmaker>good :)
02:26<@planetmaker>savegame compatibility for newgrfs is overrated :)
02:26<@planetmaker>it's extremely easy to break and one should never rely on it anyway
02:26<kamnet>Supercheese, I just found out your new bare water tile isn't protecting the seaplane airport
02:27<Supercheese>Ah, I seem to have neglected once again to test in trunk
02:27<kamnet>Or maybe it is and I just missed a spot
02:28<kamnet>To be honest, it blends in TOO well. I can't tell there's a tile there
02:28<Supercheese>well, that's the idea ;)
02:28<Supercheese>I do need to test in trunk though
02:30<Supercheese>Hmm yes it fails in trunk
02:30<Supercheese>well then
02:31<kamnet>Im' using r27213.
02:31<kamnet>It seems to me that if you try to build it on straight water, it fails. If you dynamite it down to land and build on the land, then it works.
02:32<Supercheese>Yes, I can confirm that
02:33<Supercheese>I will need to make mention
02:33<kamnet>What if you put some buoys on that tile? Or a flag
02:33<Supercheese>at least the .gif I posted is still a valid scenario, although I should have shown the intermediate process
02:34<Supercheese>which tile?
02:35<Supercheese>ugh I may well need to make a new .gif
02:40<kamnet>The bare water tile. Because it blends in with the surrounding water, I can't tell where I put my tile at.
02:41<kamnet>Even if I make object tiles transparent, I still can't tell.
02:43<kamnet>Also, the dock appears to have a water cycle hot pixel in it.
02:44<kamnet>two of the.
02:45<Supercheese>yes, that is intentional
02:46<Supercheese>splash effect against pillars
02:51<kamnet>And apparently I can't build a dock next to the airport, either. It will flood it
02:52<Supercheese>hmm yes, I am certain there are numerous consequences of applying workarounds to try and build on the ocean
02:52<Supercheese>in the perfect world you could just plop the seaport down on water directly and be done with it
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03:21<kamnet>Hm. I just notice there's a slight misalignment of the modern airport buildings in OpenGFX+ Airport Tiles
03:22<Supercheese>the object set?
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03:23<Gderckx>Hi there, can anyone tell me why Auto replace does not work for my 32Bpp vehicles?
03:24<Gderckx>For example, I wanted to upgrade the 32BPP "TGV" to a 32BPP "Eurostar" but it just does not do the job, while other 8BPP vehicles do auto replace
03:24<Gderckx>I really do not feel like manually replacing them
03:24<Supercheese>what do you mean by "does not work"?
03:25<Supercheese>Is the option available, but nothing happens when you choose it?
03:25<Gderckx>the trains do go into the depots, but they are not replaced by the newer kind
03:25<Supercheese>or do you seem to be missing the option entirely?
03:25<Gderckx>yes indeed
03:25<Supercheese>ah, hmm
03:25<Gderckx>I have the windows and I have ticked the option to replace them but they just seem to refuse it
03:26<kamnet>Supercheese: yeah the object set.
03:26<Gderckx>it does not function when I use the main screen for all trains and not for the single ones in the depot as well....
03:28<Supercheese>are you going for replacement or renewal?
03:29<Gderckx>I also wanted to change some 32Bpp wagons from the Pinapple set to the 32Bpp wagons from the normal set but nothing happened there as well/
03:29<Gderckx>but my 8Bpp trams do auto replace (upgrade)
03:31<Supercheese>hmm, no error messages pop up I assume, and you haven't disabled them
03:31<Supercheese>the messages that is
03:33<@planetmaker>Gderckx, depots must be accessible and servicing enabled
03:33<@planetmaker>there is nothing which can make it work for one type of vehicle and not for another - other than "bad" route planning and orders
03:34<Gderckx>what do you mean by "servicing enabled"?
03:34<Gderckx>No error message showing up indeed
03:35<@planetmaker>if you play w/o breakdowns and w/o servicing at depots, there's little reason for the trains to go there
03:35<Gderckx>The depots are accessible and the route planning is OK because the trains do go into the depots
03:36<Gderckx>OK, no I have breakdowns shut off but the vehicles do service
03:36<@planetmaker>there likely is a very simple explanation. But people will only know that when they can look at your savegame.
03:36<Gderckx>How am I able to hand you opver my saved game?
03:36<Gderckx>I am happy to do so
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03:36<@planetmaker>openttd is not save for work, thus I can't look at it now. Usually our forums are a good place to ask
03:37<Supercheese>planetmaker: NSFW? You must be using George's Long Vehicles ;)
03:37<Gderckx>can I just upload a saved game in a new forum tread?
03:37<Gderckx>OK, will do so
03:38<@planetmaker>:) well, maybe it's the wrong phrase. But not a good idea to fire it up at this time :P
03:39<Supercheese>I knew what you meant, but NSFW is traditionally associated with pornographic material, and well there's only one thing in OTTD that really qualifies
03:39<Supercheese>and even then only marginally
03:40<@planetmaker>ok :)
03:40<@planetmaker>and indeed the margin there is extremely tiny
03:42<V453000>train porn ftw
03:45<Supercheese>nah it's only buses
03:45<Supercheese>and perhaps one obscure Toyland to Mars conversion .grf
03:47<kamnet>You should add the docks to your newobject set
03:48<Flygon_>I heard the word NSFW
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03:48<kamnet>Naked pixel pushing going on, Flygon
03:48<Flygon>Pixel pushing, you say
03:48<kamnet>Bits are getting hard
03:49<Supercheese>Ho, new cement plant appears right next to a clay pit I haven't yet serviced, what luck
03:50<Supercheese>yeah I should add those docks
03:50<Supercheese>but actually getting some playtime now :)
03:52<V453000>unheard of :D
03:53<kamnet>I know what else is needed. Boardwalks.
03:54<Supercheese>Yes, MariCo has yet to add them
03:54<Supercheese>somewhat surprisingly, it is an extensive set
03:55<kamnet>Taking a closer look at the ekranoplan set, I'm kinda shocked at how crudely they're drawn.
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04:16<Supercheese>Ugh, my spaghetti point-to-point routes are saturated
04:16<Supercheese>the only networks I ever build sensibly are passenger networks
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04:39<YILMAX>Hi aLL
04:43<YILMAX>Does anybody speak Turkish . And free to speak Turkish ?
04:50<Xaroth|Work>this is an english speaking community I'm afraid
05:01<YILMAX>I Dont speak English so good
05:04<YILMAX>I no longer have it translated google
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05:15<Flygon>I was going to ask him how good my Turkish is
05:15<Flygon>Gobble gobble
05:15*Flygon runs away
05:16*Supercheese uses pursuit. It's super effective!
05:16<Flygon>Fuck :D
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08:36<kamnet>*ponders* How do I get myself on the access list for my nick?
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08:51<Flygon>/msg nickserv identify password
09:04<kamnet>I know how to identify, I just keep getting errors that I'm not on the access list for the nickname.
09:05<Xaroth|Work> /msg nickserv help ?
09:05<Xaroth|Work>there's an option somewhere to have you auto-identify based on your hostname
09:05<Xaroth|Work>that's what its moaning about
09:05<Xaroth|Work>it doesn't have your host on that list
09:05<Xaroth|Work>i'd say ignore it and move on :P
09:08<kamnet>Not moaning, just curious. And, yep, looks like I just need to get myself added to the list with the right magic words.
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09:14<kamnet>But, looking over that, doesn't appear to really be that great an idea anyhow
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12:28<frosch123>hola :)
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12:58<@Alberth>fierce firs movement :)
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12:59*andythenorth enjoys GarryG’s post
12:59<andythenorth>nice player feedback
13:00<@Alberth>ah, yes it is
13:01*andythenorth misses the days of happy players talking about nice things
13:01<andythenorth>maybe they’re all in the screenshot forum
13:03<@Alberth>they're quite happy, but talking about screenshots mostly
13:03*andythenorth deletes random Recycling Plant cargos
13:07<andythenorth>what should it produce?
13:07<andythenorth>Manufacturing Supplies and …?
13:07<andythenorth>Scrap Metal?
13:08<@Alberth>scrap metal would be fine
13:08*andythenorth counts sources of each
13:08<@Alberth>something wood-ish would also be possible, I guess
13:08<andythenorth>handy industry chains view :)
13:09<andythenorth>4 sources of chemicals
13:09<andythenorth>1 source of scrap metal
13:09<andythenorth>8 consumers of chemicals
13:09<andythenorth>2 consumers of scrap metal
13:10<@Alberth>don't know if you have that
13:10<andythenorth>I do
13:10<andythenorth>I think a secondary (not tertiary) cargo is nice
13:11<andythenorth>reality says scrap metal, but dunno about reality
13:11<@Alberth>reality has no recycle plants, mostly :p
13:14<andythenorth>interesting link about large numbers
13:15<andythenorth>5 year old keeps asking what the biggest number is
13:15<andythenorth>I’ve told him about infinity, but infinity isn’t a number
13:15<andythenorth>which is interesting
13:15<andythenorth>because then we can discuss what half of infinity is
13:17<@Alberth>don't think I ever worried about the biggest number at that age :)
13:19<andythenorth>religion and death we also discuss quite a bit
13:23<@Alberth>smart dude already
13:24<andythenorth>dunno about smart yet
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13:28<@Alberth>smart is a matter of time :)
13:30<andythenorth>bloody grain mill
13:31<@Alberth>the building type, I hope
13:31<andythenorth>special code to restrict layouts by date
13:31<andythenorth>windmills allowed until 1900, not after
13:31<@Alberth>we can live without it, we have too many buildings already
13:32<andythenorth>single-tile windmill looks silly with a train station next to it
13:33<andythenorth>“but it seemed like a good idea at the time”
13:33<@Alberth>I agree, but a rectangular building doesn't look mill-ish
13:33<@planetmaker>enlarge the wind mill to 2x2 tiles
13:33<@Alberth>even though they look like that in reality
13:34<andythenorth>two windmills per mill
13:34<andythenorth>doesn’t solve the layouts problem
13:34<@planetmaker>then it's the same layout as... hm... dairy :P
13:34<andythenorth>my current choices are: (1) make all industries check layout by date, for just one case that uses it (2) ditch this ‘feature'
13:34<andythenorth>(3) something else
13:34<andythenorth>templating enforces limits :P
13:35<@planetmaker>no need to use a template for every industry?
13:35<@Alberth>or the same one, for that matter :)
13:35<@planetmaker>it's not a fault to use templates generally but not using it in special cases
13:35<andythenorth>just seems clunky
13:36<@Alberth>make a derived template?
13:36<andythenorth>such a pointless feature, just adds code bloat
13:36<andythenorth>most of these silly ‘features’ are getting deleted
13:37<andythenorth>will be better
13:37<andythenorth>most != all
13:38<andythenorth>this one is worth preserving?
13:38<@planetmaker>I agree with the assessment that the 1x1 tile for the industry seems a bit small - especially when compared to a station
13:39<andythenorth>what about ‘windmills look cool’ as a justification for it?
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13:39<@planetmaker>however... ^ is a good justification :)
13:39<andythenorth>I’ll write an optional macro for it :P
13:40<@Alberth>andy, pm knows all about cool wind-mills (but more modern ones)
13:40<kamnet>Windmills look awesome.
13:40<kamnet>Windmills powered pre-revolution industries. We could use more of them.
13:40<andythenorth>water mills :P
13:41<kamnet>Grain mills before 1900 should either be windmills or water mills that must be placed on a river.
13:41<kamnet>See! Rivers *ARE* useful!
13:41<andythenorth>the chances of that working well are miniscule
13:42<andythenorth>plus it will break boats
13:42<andythenorth>‘your ship is lost'
13:42<kamnet>Well obviously you'll need to expand the river if you want your boat to get around the mill.
13:42<kamnet>But, code checks to build water mill. No water? Then build windmill.
13:43<kamnet>But, that's really too much if your goal is to make FIRS more simple.
13:43<@Alberth>it won't look very well, probably
13:43<andythenorth>too many edge cases with corners, slopes, players terraforming etc
13:43<@Alberth>the wheel has to stay at the mill tile
13:43<+glx>and will require a very specific landscape
13:44<andythenorth>it was considered
13:44<andythenorth>Dan roughed up a sprite
13:44<kamnet>Just flatten the land.
13:44<kamnet>auto level
13:44<@Alberth>let's just hard-code that, who needs hills :p
13:44<@planetmaker>andythenorth, the watermills are placed *adjacent* to rivers :)
13:44<andythenorth>it was enough trouble getting ports to work
13:44<+glx>do it like ECS ;)
13:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: that means drawing some sprites over a base tile
13:45<andythenorth>for the water in the mill race
13:45<andythenorth>eh it _could_ be done
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27238 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2015-04-15 19:45:15 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<andythenorth>I think the benefit is not great compared to the work for andythenorth
13:45<@DorpsGek>latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@planetmaker>yes, of course water mills only for some slopes, the 4 major ones
13:45*andythenorth would sooner have, e.g. replaced the Iron Mine sprites
13:46<andythenorth>or fixed the ‘not enough industry IDs’ problem
13:46<andythenorth>or finished Squid, Road Hog, etc :)
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14:05<V453000>nice to see you making progress
14:05<V453000>regardless what progress it is :P
14:05<andythenorth>at the end of this
14:05<andythenorth>nothing will have changed :P
14:05<V453000>well I am also reworking ALL of RAWR 0.0.1 sprites on ALL levels - model, postproduction, all kinds of setups, to coding
14:05<V453000>so it is in the end basically the same
14:05<V453000>but BETTER obviozely :D
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14:08<andythenorth>bigger, faster, stronger
14:08<andythenorth>have you made MOAR yet? o_O
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14:13<kamnet>I admire andythenorth and V45300. Cleaning up your code is good.
14:13<kamnet>I barely have any code at all. Its probably horrible.
14:13<andythenorth>or as we also call it ‘introducing new bugs'
14:14<kamnet>but that is the purpose of coding. To seek out new bugs and new instabilities.
14:14<kamnet>If you ain't breakin' it, you ain't tryin'.
14:20<V453000>kamnet, RAWR isnt really a code, it is just stuff replacing sprites :)
14:21<V453000>but the mass-rendering of sprites and their later editing is just pure insanity
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14:40<andythenorth>a feature
14:40*andythenorth animated the brewery flag
14:40<andythenorth>big gameplay effect
14:41<andythenorth>that brewery
14:41<andythenorth>such pixels
14:41<andythenorth>such drawing
14:41<andythenorth>such time
14:43<V453000>hell yeah
14:44<V453000>I can render everything at the same time with just one click
14:44<V453000>and let the pc torture itself for like a week XD
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14:45<andythenorth>buildings I enjoy drawing
14:45<andythenorth>vehicles not so
14:45<andythenorth>ships I would gladly never touch again
14:46<andythenorth>breweries - currently locate near town
14:46<andythenorth>is this worth doing?
14:46<V453000>yeah shit that rotates is evil
14:46<andythenorth>we decided dairies aren’t really town industries
14:46<V453000>I guess it is nice but not necessary
14:48<andythenorth>it’s not much work
14:48<andythenorth>just don’t know if it’s helping gameplay
14:48<andythenorth>can’t remember the original reasoning
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14:50<V453000>it doesnt, it is just nice :)
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14:50<V453000>question is whether it even makes sense to have brewery in town? idk where breweries are normally
14:50<andythenorth>in town, irl
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14:51<@Alberth>having some specific behavior bits is nice, imho
14:51<andythenorth>I’ll port the current code
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15:07*andythenorth does that
15:07*andythenorth wonders if town zone would be better than town distance
15:07<andythenorth>but eh
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15:22<andythenorth>hurr, primary industries next I guess
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15:28<kamnet>Lots of breweries started out on the edge of towns, but towns encroached and grew around them.
15:28<kamnet>same with dairies.
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15:46<andythenorth>is it nap time?
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16:01<DanMacK>Hey hey
16:06*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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16:10<frosch123>he fell asleep before he could leave the channel
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16:22<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
16:24<andythenorth>I wish Truth was less variable in presence
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16:27<Supercheese>Today truth is with us... but what about tomorrow?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>truth is a lie
16:32<andythenorth>ain’t that the truth
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16:36<Supercheese>Truth... is transient, fleeting
16:37<Supercheese>Its presence may well be an illusion
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23:08-!-kamnet|AFK is now known as kamnet
23:12<kamnet>I am dead. I am dead. I am Dead. I have returned to the land of the living. I am a zombie. I am a zombie. I am a zombie.
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 16 00:00:35 2015