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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-16

---Logopened Thu Apr 16 00:00:35 2015
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02:10<andythenorth>o/
02:17<kamnet>\o
02:22<kamnet>I wish I could understand the lyrics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9M3Bgebn9U
02:23<andythenorth>kamnet: does the WIRE grf add anything to gameplay?
02:24<andythenorth>I have been considering something similar
02:27<kamnet>No I don't think it really does. Its just something else to transport.
02:27<andythenorth>power plant -> power -> town
02:27<andythenorth>was my thought
02:27<kamnet>In WIRES the power plants accept coal, but AFAICT doesn't require them in order to generate electriccity.
02:27<andythenorth>but I wouldn’t want to tie it to electricity
02:27<andythenorth>gas is also valid
02:27*andythenorth dunno
02:28<kamnet>steam generated from the recycling centers
02:28<andythenorth>maybe
02:28<andythenorth>they have a chimney
02:29<andythenorth>original FIRS design had an incinerator for waste
02:29<andythenorth>‘power’ would need a whole new transport type, hacked on trains
02:29<andythenorth>so it’s a lot of work for minimal result
02:29<kamnet>I always thought the recycling center also looked like a waste incerator too
02:30<kamnet>Yeah, especially if some AI is just going to try to transport it all using lorries.
02:30<andythenorth>based on this http://www.letsrecycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/West_London_Waste.jpg
02:30<andythenorth>for no particular reason
02:30<kamnet>Nice looking plant
02:33<supermop>i wouldn't bother with power until there is a non-railtype means of transporting it
02:33<kamnet>I grew up not far from this one: http://is.gd/cGTqqe
02:33<supermop>or until there is a way for power to be meaningful without being transported
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02:35<kamnet>City Growth gamescripts could require it, just like food and water.
02:36<supermop>currently they only work by recording what is delivered
02:36<supermop>so either all coal delivered to town counts regardless of where, or you'd need to 'deliver' power
02:36<andythenorth>there is a town control newgrf spec
02:36<andythenorth>which afaik nobody is using meaningfully
02:37<supermop>would be better for town to just check if nearby powerplant is being supplied
02:37<supermop>do not even need to verify how well it is being supplied
02:38<supermop>really a well supplied steel mill should grow town too though - more jobs, needs more workers
02:38<supermop>idk
02:39<supermop>if some industries could have a flag for if they are 'active' or not, and some of them then pass that on to nearby towns
02:39<kamnet>I think a bigger game-change improvement for OpenTTD would be more industries that requires passengers to operate.
02:39<supermop>well you could probably build a steel mill today that only requires a coouple gys o run, rather than thousands
02:40<kamnet>Perhaps that would be even better than farm/industry supplies.
02:40<supermop>in many areas, if there is no transit to the industry, workers will just drive
02:41<supermop>and in the 19th C the workers just lived next to the factory and walked
02:42<supermop>sure you could say that better transit to the industry is a perk, which allows the industry to attract workers at a lower wage, which leaves more money for operating the industry
02:42<supermop>but then you are down the rabbit hole
02:43<andythenorth>I thought YETI had workers covered?
02:43<supermop>and are confronted with arguements of, how can this steel mill afford to keep buying 10,000 tons of ore every month
02:43<supermop>as does manpower
02:43<kamnet>I'm just thinking about how many players complain that moving cargo is less interesting than moving passengers.
02:43<andythenorth>do they? o_O
02:44<kamnet>Plenty enough that completely ignore cargo.
02:44<supermop>i prefer to focus on passengers, but i have never heard anyone else say that
02:44<kamnet>Maybe it's jsut redditors. :D
02:45<kamnet>But I"m thinking, hey, cargodist wants you to take passengers from city to nearby industry. Now that you spent all that money building a rail/bus stop to get them there and back, double-up on your utilization and start moving the output from the industry back.
02:46<andythenorth>my workers walk
02:46<andythenorth>and consider themselves grateful
02:47<supermop>i mean i can see it more as a disincentive to steelmills out in the middle of nowhere
02:47<supermop>but a passenger train to a remote factory makes even less sense
02:47<V453000>asdf
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02:48<supermop>we have awoken the beast
02:48<kamnet>Still, other than just being neat eyecandy and something else to shift around, I don't see power being something particularly useful to OpenTTD in its current state.
02:49<kamnet>Although it would be neat if Supercheese just fixed the issue with electricity being shipped by non-WIRES vehicles.
02:50<Supercheese>I think I posted the sources
02:50*Supercheese checks
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02:51<supermop>electricity, gas, water should just move on its own via unseen infrastructure
02:51<supermop>until such time as we can have conveyors, pipes, etc
02:51<Supercheese>agh didn't post 'em
02:52<supermop>best use for electricity is to allow aluminum plant to work
02:53<kamnet>Yep, that wouldd be a good use
02:53<Supercheese>you can already use the PIPE grf for water eh
02:59<kamnet>Water. oil... beer...
03:07<supermop>ugh
03:07<supermop>out of beer
03:20<andythenorth>milk
03:20*andythenorth has milk pipelines in current game
03:20<supermop>i should model some van molyvan buildings
03:21<supermop>could fit into a brutalist/tropic modern/metabolist/ or SEA set
03:22<supermop>http://thebeautifuloccupation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/PhnomPenh-0177.jpg
03:26<andythenorth>you should model a range of ships and output them to 8bpp
03:26<V453000>nice mess
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03:29<supermop>its a cool building, both the original and the current ad hoc state
03:29<supermop>isn't pikka doing ships?
03:29<supermop>didn't you also do ships? do we need more ships?
03:29<V453000>shits are uselez
03:29<V453000>I will do a couple of shits once I need them for rawr
03:31<andythenorth>the ships we have are lame
03:31<andythenorth>we are binning Squid
03:31<andythenorth>and starting again
03:31<V453000>XD
03:31<V453000>great
03:31<V453000>the 4 rawr ships will have no competition
03:32<V453000>GG
03:32<supermop>why not do what pikkas doing, just a small medium and large ship
03:32<andythenorth>because...eh?
03:32<andythenorth>pikka will get bored of that and add more :)
03:33<andythenorth>really stripped down rosters are not, in fact, fun
03:33<supermop>wont boat hulls in 8bpp just look the same as ships
03:33<V453000>32bpp for eternity!
03:33<supermop>*as squid
03:34<andythenorth>supermop these ones will go to 11
03:34<supermop>32bpp needs to much rust and shit all over the boat
03:34<supermop>11bpp?
03:35<V453000>rust is easy to make and adds a TON of beauty quickly
03:37<supermop>i don't really know much about boats
03:37<supermop>or give a shit
03:37<supermop>i have a boater hat
03:38<supermop>boat neck jumper with navy stripes
03:38<supermop>rowboats maybe
03:39<supermop>also don't give a shit about steam....
03:39<V453000>I dont know fuck about boats either, but them being friendly with rust means they are easy to model and make nice looking
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04:14<supermop>need to render mlss sheds
04:15<supermop>maybe i'll use revit
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04:21<V453000>just use a normal graphics 3D program :P
04:22<supermop>http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/04/the-unexpectedly-compelling-case-for-ferries/390474/
04:23<V453000>tldr not enough pictures
04:24<supermop>boats
04:32<supermop>really hope dont have to live in greenpoint when i go back
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04:33<supermop>not commuting is best part of living in nyc
04:33<supermop>hopefully chinatown will still be cheap as it was when i left
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04:42<kamnet>That was a good article, supermop.
04:42<kamnet>Where do you live now
04:42<kamnet>?
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05:04<Pikka>oh
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05:11<kamnet>oh, Pikka
05:11<kamnet>?
05:19<kamnet>Hey Pikka, since you're here and I'm thinking about it, where can I find your template for planes?
05:21<Pikka>I have a template for planes?
05:22<kamnet>That's what I read
05:23<Pikka>where?
05:23<kamnet>early pages of WS development
05:23<kamnet>WAS, even
05:24<kamnet>Discussion on why they didn't just roll their work into planeset, or just become AV8+.
05:24<supermop>live in melbourne now
05:25<Pikka>well, I provided the greyscales for the initial aircraft for WAS, perhaps they're referring to those
05:28<supermop>before that was new york, before that st louis, before that columbus
05:29<supermop>i think you'll have to model/render the seaplanes kamnet
05:29<Supercheese>well, is there a general render template?
05:29<Supercheese>i.e. by how many degrees are planes inclined when climbing/landing/etc
05:29<kamnet>They might be. I might have read it wrong too.
05:32<supermop>could probably make up angles
05:32<Pikka>I could tell you those numbers, certainly
05:32<Pikka>but it's dinner time now, bbs :)
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05:47<kamnet>Here's why I like combing through old topics. You find crazy stuff like this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=39227&start=220
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06:02<andythenorth>power power power plants
06:03<supermop>do it
06:03<supermop>but only wind, hydro, and other plants that would be utterly boring to interact with as a player
06:04<supermop>deliver turbine blades to turbine
06:04<supermop>stockpile size = 3
06:04<supermop>stockpile comsumed 1 blade every 15 years
06:05<kamnet>Hydro power plants. I've got NewGRF for that!
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06:05<kamnet>Those graphics are quite horrible, actually.
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06:07<supermop>bootstrap plant by divering heavy equipment, turbines, boilers, generators, reactor vessels
06:07<supermop>then never deliver again
06:07<supermop>or not for 40 years or so
06:08<supermop>off to get dinner myself
06:08<supermop>later
06:08<@planetmaker>guten Mampf ;)
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06:19*andythenorth has been considering ‘unlock regions of the map’ GameScripts
06:19<andythenorth>‘provide power’ could be an unlock
06:19<andythenorth>a GS that founds towns
06:20<andythenorth>you start with one town
06:20<andythenorth>no power, no town
06:20<andythenorth>it would need to make some fragile assumptions about the industry newgrf
06:21<V453000>XD
06:23<Pikka>kaboom
06:23<kamnet>Everybody talking about getting dinner and I've not even had breakfast yet
06:25<Pikka>fwiw aircraft in av8 climb at 20 degrees, Supercheese
06:25<Pikka>and flare at 10
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06:27<Pikka>"Mr Coe said this did not phase the Canberra Liberals."
06:28<Pikka>journalism is officially dead
06:28<andythenorth>bonsoir Pikka
06:29<andythenorth>ah your government and your journalists
06:29<andythenorth>also power plants
06:29<andythenorth>yes / no?
06:30<@planetmaker>andythenorth, seems you use strange encodings for at least one file: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/502/console
06:30<@planetmaker>which makes compilation fail
06:30<Pikka>power plants maybe?
06:30<Pikka>they're very traditional, which FIRS for the most part is not
06:31<Pikka>and yes, my journalists who can't spell faze.
06:32<kamnet>perhaps they meant phased, as in transitioning from one state of existence to another?
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06:33<kamnet>if the Canbera Liberals are still here, then indeed they were not phased at all!
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06:38<andythenorth>planetmaker: that’s a boo boo
06:40*andythenorth pushes a fix
06:51*andythenorth wonders why it was tripping up, it’s python 3, default encoding is assumed to be utf-8
06:52<@planetmaker>I wonder about that, too. But sometimes OSX uses some other fancy encodings unique to OSX
06:53<andythenorth>I had a random unicode char that looked like a mis-type
06:53<andythenorth>å
06:53*andythenorth doesn’t know if that’s utf-8 or not
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07:09<supermop>power unlock sounds good
07:25<Pikka>http://pikkarail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TaI_Industry_Chain-01.png current state of pineapple industry planning. Too vanilla, or not vanilla enough?
07:28<andythenorth>Pikka: so many arrows :o
07:28<andythenorth>:)
07:28<andythenorth>no pineapple cargo?
07:28<Pikka>fruit plantation? :)
07:29<@planetmaker>hm... fruits... depicted as yeti-sized pineapples on flatbed wagons :)
07:29<andythenorth>do economies
07:29<andythenorth>forget climate variations, they’re tedious :P
07:29<Pikka>I have forgotten climate variations
07:29<andythenorth>water?
07:29<Pikka>except water, because of game mechanics
07:29<Pikka>the olde towns-in-desert-won't-grow-without-it
07:30<Pikka>also, forget economies. why draw and code industries you're not going to play with? :)
07:31<andythenorth>I play more than one game of OpenTTD per year :P
07:31<Pikka>but surely one economy is the best? ;)
07:32<Pikka>put the good bits of the others into that, get rid of the bad bits. Now you have the bestest economy and no need for any others.
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07:32<@planetmaker>Pikka, the industry newgrf can define another cargo to fulfil water's purpose
07:32<andythenorth>economies solve ‘trying to make the perfect balance’
07:32<Pikka>I know that planetmaker. But that doesn't solve tropic being different. :)
07:32<Pikka>just adding water is the simplest solution.
07:33<andythenorth>“just add water"
07:33<andythenorth>"for delicious cookies”
07:33<Pikka>exactly
07:33<@planetmaker>true :)
07:33<Pikka>hmm
07:33<@planetmaker>though I find water a bit strange cargo for a train game
07:34<andythenorth>water train
07:34<Pikka>maybe I'll put water supplies in all climates and make food processing plants accept it. as a homage to N3V. :)
07:34<@planetmaker>n3v?
07:35<Pikka>the erstwhile Auran, developers of Trainz
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07:36<andythenorth>Pikka: it looks…all fine
07:36<andythenorth>but not very pikka-ish
07:36<Pikka>the COO originally made his money from a bottled water company called neverfail, which is where the new name comes from.
07:36<Pikka>not very pikkaish? it's mostly TaI :P
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07:41<Pikka>oh, andy, I've also rethought having one truck per generation and just relying on refit... I'm back to seperate box, livestock, flat, hopper and tanker trucks :)
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07:49<supermop>sounds fine
07:49<supermop>trucks are boring so it's a pain to have too many of them
07:50<supermop>but
07:50<supermop>simple is good
07:50<supermop>why do brickworks take gasoline?
07:50<Pikka>to fire the kilns
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07:51<supermop>not coal?
07:51<Pikka>nope. because...
07:51<supermop>our family's brickyard used wood then coal
07:51<Pikka>well, they can run on fuel oil. or gas.
07:52<Pikka>and there's already two destinations for coal, and only a dump for fuel oil. :)
07:52<supermop>hmm
07:52<supermop>tar for roads?
07:52<andythenorth>Pikka: I am +1 to your truck choices
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07:52<supermop>refineries should make more than two products, but i guess that's not feasible
07:52<andythenorth>‘one truck and refit’ is so….logical :(
07:52<andythenorth>logical does not fun make
07:52<supermop>petrol could be tar or asphalt or whatever
07:52<Pikka>also doesn't make for as many pretty variations :)
07:53<andythenorth>also
07:53<andythenorth>and also
07:53<Pikka>but where does it go, supermop?
07:53<supermop>tar?
07:53<andythenorth>for economies without batshit number of cargos
07:53<Pikka>yes
07:53<andythenorth>lots of trucks are one-click-build, no refit
07:53<Pikka>oh whoops
07:53<Pikka>I've got the oil refinery producing 3 cargos, good point ;)
07:54<andythenorth>patch openttd
07:54<supermop>i don't know i guess it'd be bdmt in firs
07:54<andythenorth>use random cargos cb?
07:54*andythenorth just removed random cargos in FIRS
07:54<supermop>so just goods in this, which is pointles...?
07:54<andythenorth>add a port
07:54<andythenorth>ports are fun
07:54<Pikka>I could just combine plastic and rfpr, which is the 3rd cargo I just added. :)
07:54<andythenorth>ports make it easy to fix gameplay imbalance
07:54<supermop>fine chemicals refinery separate
07:54<andythenorth>plastic is daft
07:55<Pikka>I'll just call it all rfpr then, to both factories :)
07:55<andythenorth>plastic is rfpr, or mnsp
07:55<supermop>one makes heavy oil shit and gasoline, other makes chemicals and... other chemicals?
07:55<supermop>idk
07:55<Pikka>nope, one refinery, makes fuel and refined
07:56<Pikka>two factories, one makes goods and one makes fm/en supplies :)
07:56<supermop>andythenorth should add pubs to firs that produce empties
07:56<andythenorth>FUEL is a missing cargo
07:56<andythenorth>could be abused for much things
07:56<Pikka>petr
07:56<Pikka>is fuel
07:56<andythenorth>FIRS should have FUEL
07:56<andythenorth>I know, petrol :(
07:56<Pikka>I call it fuel oil
07:56<andythenorth>I tried that
07:56<andythenorth>but it got changed :P
07:56<andythenorth>Pikka: also huzzah, ships!
07:57<andythenorth>me and Dan have decided Squid is Shit
07:57<Pikka>that's what you get for open-sourcing your translations :)
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07:57<andythenorth>new Squid!
07:57<andythenorth>better
07:57<andythenorth>Octopus
07:57<Pikka>Calamari Jane
07:57<andythenorth>moar ships
07:57<andythenorth>or different
07:58<Pikka>the real question is
07:58<Pikka>am I allowed to call "refined products" "chemicals"?
07:59<andythenorth>I do
07:59<Pikka>good
07:59<Pikka>then I shall
07:59<andythenorth>I would
07:59<andythenorth>I do in fact
07:59<andythenorth>frequently
07:59<Pikka>factory accepts chemicals, steel and lumber
07:59<Pikka>supply factory accepts chemicals, steel and goods
07:59<Pikka>that's going to trip people up when they try and deliver lumber to the supply factory :D
08:00<andythenorth>I went rogue in tropic
08:00<andythenorth>no refiney, this instead http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#chemical_plant
08:00<andythenorth>"refiney”
08:00<Pikka>si
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08:01<Pikka>I reeeeeeeeeeally want to use JAVA but it doesn't really fit. I'll just have to do a coffee variation on the fruit plantation.
08:01<Pikka>JAVA would be good for toyland though, mugs on a flatbed.
08:01<andythenorth>coffee is fun
08:01<andythenorth>apparently the second most valuable commidity in the developing world
08:01<andythenorth>after oil
08:02<andythenorth>whatever that means
08:02<Pikka>it's particularly fun since its accepting industry returns farm supplies :)
08:02<supermop>the problem with ports, is that the max out too easily
08:03<andythenorth>in FIRS?
08:03<supermop>if i have a cluster of coffee plantations, just one of them will quickly push the trading post to gung ho
08:03<supermop>then, i can supply the rest with supplies too but whats the point
08:04<Pikka>to make more coffee
08:04<Pikka>getting the trading post gung ho is not the point, exporting maximum coffee is!
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08:04<supermop>i am incentivized to build a bunch of trading posts near each other
08:05<Pikka>sounds "realistic" to me
08:05<supermop>and then what the hell do i do with so many supplies?
08:05<andythenorth>profit!
08:05<andythenorth>dunno
08:06<andythenorth>watch them annoyingly build up at stations
08:06<supermop>i guess its fine
08:06<andythenorth>mostly wonder why cdist assigns 5,000 crates to one of the 9 routes you have at a port?
08:06<andythenorth>whilst starving the other routes?
08:06<supermop>i usually can get around that with timetabing
08:06<Pikka>there, ctrl-f5 http://pikkarail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TaI_Industry_Chain-01.png
08:07<andythenorth>you can’t even collect the 5,000 crates because there is a line of trucks waiting for the other routes to be allocated one crate per month
08:07<Pikka>Rfpr all the way
08:07<andythenorth>I would
08:07<andythenorth>nice pink
08:07<supermop>easiest to have each farm take a truck every 10 days or so, then they all get an ok amount
08:07<supermop>but extra crates do tend to lump towards the first connected farm
08:07<andythenorth>only if if cdist assigns it
08:07<andythenorth>Pikka: slag is interesting
08:07<andythenorth>been wondering about that
08:08<supermop>well if no trucks are full load, all of them are stay 10 then leave its ok
08:08<andythenorth>powder ash and kiln cement
08:08<supermop>just dont connect one farm then wait years to do the next
08:08<andythenorth>eh, that is my error
08:08<andythenorth>hmm
08:08<andythenorth>too late now :P
08:08<supermop>it's very deterministic
08:08<Pikka>I went with slag for both because gameplay > realism ;)
08:09<supermop>which is nice in some ways
08:09*andythenorth considers it
08:09<andythenorth>probably will at some point
08:09<andythenorth>22 industries in TaI?
08:09<supermop>because you can hit the ceiling in a few years or less and then do not need to rework your timetabled network in unpredictable ways later
08:09<Pikka>21
08:10<Pikka>one of those squares is "town"
08:10<andythenorth>add a few more :)
08:10<supermop>pikka grassland replaces temperate?
08:10<andythenorth>coffee coffee coffee
08:10<andythenorth>brewery?
08:10<Pikka>location info for tropic, supermop
08:10<andythenorth>anything at sea?
08:10<supermop>yeah where's the beer
08:10<Pikka>nothing but oilrigs. and even oilrigs are annoying.
08:11<Pikka>the beer is food from the food processing plant :P
08:11<supermop>anything in rainforest then?
08:11<Pikka>I don't think I differentiate
08:11<Pikka>between grass and rainforest
08:12<andythenorth>space launch platform?
08:12<andythenorth>Kerbal OpenTTD?
08:12<supermop>metabolist floating megacities?
08:13*andythenorth considers a space economy
08:13<andythenorth>Dan and I have been having….ideas :P
08:13<andythenorth>why have a balanced model of the macro-economy?
08:13<andythenorth>when you could go deep on some specific thing
08:13<andythenorth>maximum nerd
08:14<supermop>balance is no fun
08:14<supermop>speculative home construction based economy
08:15<andythenorth>vegas economy
08:15<andythenorth>accepts: people
08:16<andythenorth>produces: hungover people with no money
08:16<andythenorth>BrisVegas :P
08:16<supermop>citadis c2 just drove over beer can stuck in tracks outside
08:16<supermop>interesting sound
08:18<supermop>mczapkie posts basically what i just said about power plants...
08:18<kamnet>stealing all your good ideas
08:18<kamnet>Andythenorth, what all have you eliminated from FIRS since you started?
08:19<supermop>trash
08:19<supermop>m going to watch some seinfeld
08:19<andythenorth>kamnet: most of it
08:20<andythenorth>boatloads of it
08:20<kamnet>Seinfeld? Man, how quaint.
08:20<kamnet>Anybody seen the new Daredevil series?
08:21<kamnet>What if the next FIRS was all the stuff you threw away from the last FIRS?
08:21<andythenorth>yes that would suck
08:21<supermop>what if seinfeld were modern?
08:22<V453000>XD
08:23<kamnet>Then J Peterman would be dead now
08:24<supermop>laine get ipad
08:26<supermop>old timey brick sheds: slate shingle roof?
08:26<supermop>metal roof?
08:26<kamnet>shingle
08:26<supermop>i just just grey noise in 8b
08:26<supermop>just used
08:27<supermop>what about the terracotta block and concrete? i used the same texture in 8bpp but maybe corrugated makes more sense?
08:28<supermop>could be dark dingy grey corrugated instead of galvanized
08:29<supermop>hard to find textures of these dudes:
08:29<supermop>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Porotherm_style_clay_block_brick_angle_1.jpg/800px-Porotherm_style_clay_block_brick_angle_1.jpg
08:29<kamnet>sure
08:29<supermop>let alone free tiling ones
08:31<supermop>some brick or tile should pass for it at scale
08:31<supermop>want a free version of this: http://thumb101.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1323667/209022607/stock-photo-hollow-interlocking-clay-block-wall-front-view-209022607.jpg
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08:35<supermop>oooh i just found 8bpp railtype sprites i made years ago
08:36<supermop>in 2x and 4x zoom
08:36<supermop>now i remember why i decided to nver again do pixel art
08:37<V453000>XD
08:38<supermop>i never even got to the monorail
08:38<supermop>the idea was a full tile of ballast to make yards look less weird
08:39<supermop>i guess these could be used as is
08:39<V453000>show us ! :D
08:39<supermop>they are more dingy that rendered shit though
08:40<supermop>which of my opened ended fruitless topics should i go off topic in by posting these
08:43<@planetmaker>I can only offer you those worn bricks, supermop : https://plus.google.com/photos/107191069901530811927/albums/6138316160834814833?authkey=CLnKwIe6hue7dQ
08:45<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1147306#p1147306
08:46<supermop>ok i only need to model and render 56 'buildings' by june to make a 32bpp version in under 5 years
08:47<supermop>that and get help fixing whatever is wrong with the code, and adding code for fences
08:47<supermop>and replace red pavement on brick sheds with grey
08:49<supermop>..i actually did draw 8bpp monorails too, and foundations...
08:50<supermop>ok sein time
08:50<supermop>later
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12:49<luaduck>does having reload_cfg on mean we can't have random seed generation at map reset time?
12:50<luaduck>our seed has been stuck for a week
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12:50<luaduck>or is this going to be some stupid fix like "set generation_seed to 0"
12:54<@planetmaker>luaduck, yes, reload_cfg will reload the cfg - including the random seed stored in it
12:55<luaduck>can that be overridden in any way?
12:55<luaduck>or is disabling reload_cfg the only way
12:56<Rubidium>have you tried removing the seed from the config file?
12:56<Rubidium>i.e. remove the whole line with generation_seed
12:56<luaduck>I get the feeling it'll just write that out though
12:56<luaduck>especially if we ever did a config save
12:57<Rubidium>alternatively use 2**32-1 as seed
13:01<luaduck>that sounds more likely to work
13:02<luaduck>I wasn't aware the seed took arythmatic operators though
13:03<@planetmaker>it doesn't. It's just more visible to write 2^32-1 or LONG_MAX than ...
13:03<@planetmaker>@calc 2**32-1
13:03<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 4294967295
13:03<@planetmaker>^
13:04<+glx>else it takes 2 I think
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14:07<andythenorth>cat says ‘woof'
14:07<@Alberth>oh dear, some bad mixup
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14:14<ub_umstieg>Hi is there a way ti detect a traffic train jam
14:15<@Alberth>turn on negative profit warnings is one way
14:15<ub_umstieg>it is displayed at a yearchage but this is a long time
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14:15<ub_umstieg>Alberth: in the settings
14:15<@Alberth>you can also look at the minimap to check whether all trains seem to be moving
14:16<ub_umstieg>minimap at 2048x2048 is not a good look at
14:16<@Alberth>yeah, too big
14:17<ub_umstieg>and profit warning im gone check but maybee spams me up to the ears
14:17<@Alberth>trains also throw 'no path to destination' warnings after a while
14:17<@Alberth>at least they do with me
14:18<@Alberth>but I don't know when they do that exactly
14:18<@Alberth>the best solution is to make networks that don't jam, of course :p
14:18<ub_umstieg>this woudt be a good feather to give them a time value in settings throw on 10day stuck for example
14:19<@Alberth>they do turn around at some point
14:19<@Alberth>but some people have disabled that
14:19<ub_umstieg>Alberth: agree on that but the map generater offen discard this on to low space
14:20<ub_umstieg>turn around with main route full is the reasen for total jam
14:20<ub_umstieg>only train depo is he jam cleaner
14:20<@Alberth>always fun to clean up :)
14:21<@Alberth>but it seems that you're no having enough space on the main line then
14:21<ub_umstieg>sometimes its a mess on high load industries in bvig populated areas
14:22<ub_umstieg>ok im fine THANKS to all that are providing s much fun to me
14:22<ub_umstieg>i play only one game per Humen jear
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14:23<@Alberth>I never finish a game :)
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14:34<andythenorth>‘finish’
14:34<andythenorth>is an odd word
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14:41<andythenorth>hmm
14:41<andythenorth>subclassing twice
14:41<andythenorth>_probably_ ok
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14:54<andythenorth>flat docks anyone? o_O
14:54*andythenorth would draw the sprites
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14:58<Wolf01>o/
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15:00<@Alberth>hi hi
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16:00<DanMacK>Hey all
16:00<@Alberth>hi hi
16:03<andythenorth>@seen danmack
16:03<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 3 minutes and 44 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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17:10<Wolf01>'night
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20:06<supermop>yo
20:31<supermop>i should do something with all of these old sprites
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22:15<kamnet>Just release them and let other people work on them supermop
22:17<kamnet>Free your mind, and the sprites will follow.
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>sprites are overrated
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23:14<supermop>alright
23:36<supermop>can you code houses kamnet ?
23:36<kamnet>No I can barely code at all
23:37<supermop>damn
23:37<kamnet>Heck it's been 2 years since I even messed with NFO, and the only NML I know is how to use the town names template LOL
23:38<supermop>on the margins of this huge mlss pcx file are a handful of pseudo modernist/modular buildings
23:39<supermop>not enoought for a house set, or to be worth drawing more, but it could work as an add on that adds a few more late 20th century buildings to whatever other houses you are playing with
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23:43<supermop>i guess i'll break them out into some standardized pngs
23:45<Pikkaphone>png pong
23:45<supermop>sure why not
23:45<Pikkaphone>How's it going?
23:46<supermop>i found a handful of sort-of metabolist pixel drawn buildings on the margin of my big locomotive shed sheet
23:46<supermop>from 4 years back or so
23:47<supermop>i want to do a rendered proper metabolist thing eventually, but i feel like i should do something with these for now
23:48<supermop>can buildings have 2cc?
23:48<Pikkaphone>what can you do with a handful of buildings?
23:49<Pikkaphone>Ummm I think so. buildings specify a recolor map directly, I don't see why they can't be the 2cc ones.
23:49<supermop>add them on to other house sets to provide more variety than endless capsule towers and suspended tubes in the late game?
23:49<Pikkaphone>splendid
23:50<supermop>like a set that adds 6 more houses starting in the late 70s,
23:50<supermop>or 6 in the 70s, 6 in the 2010s
23:50<supermop>or capsule towers from 10,000 years ago, whatever people want i guess
23:51<Pikkaphone>stone age metabolism
23:51<Pikkaphone>http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-17/qld-rail-150th-birthday-locomotive-steam-train-bety/6400058 choo choo
23:52<supermop>you ride it?
23:53<Pikkaphone>Nope. sitting here waiting for a "fun" and "enjoyable" lecture
23:54<supermop>what's your degree in?
23:56<Pikkaphone>creative industries. Media and communication + interactive and visual design.
23:59<supermop>neat
23:59<Pikkaphone>some of the first year units are a bit of a drag. :) but I'll be done with them in a few weeks...
---Logclosed Fri Apr 17 00:00:37 2015