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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-18

---Logopened Sat Apr 18 00:00:38 2015
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01:46<kamnet_>Hello supermop
01:47<supermop>hows it goinng?
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02:13<kamnet_>It's goign good. Sorry I was distracted, finishing up Daredevil
02:18<kamnet_>Or, Episode 4 at least.
02:18<kamnet_>I had enough violence for the night :D
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02:32<supermop>hmm all ive done today is get a new power button on my phone
02:35<andythenorth>kicking goals
02:36<supermop>going to go buy some shapes for a snack, brb
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03:02<@Alberth>why doesn't anybody ever come up with the idea to change the newgrf with different introduction dates, rather than trying to change the daylength?
03:03<V453000>because historical accuracy
03:03<kamnet_>I was going to make that suggestion, but I didn't want to sound snarky.
03:03<V453000>and to them it sounds like a simple task, just changing the date duh
03:05<kamnet_>The reason I play with daylength is because it's ridiculous that it takes a week for a vehicle to travel from one side of a city to the other, or takes months for a single train run to go between locations.
03:05<@Alberth>I hardly ever look at the date, it's mostly irrelevant to me
03:06<@Alberth>just like how many zillions you have, it's not of interest at all
03:07<@Alberth>but ok, fair enough to want a saner date
03:07<V453000>saner date ... not many people play a 100 year game anyway
03:08<V453000>and 1920-2020 sounds quite sane to me
03:08<kamnet_>Perhaps. Granted it's all meaningless anyhow. It's really not a date, its just ticks.
03:08<V453000>if it defines which vehicles are available and many graphics like houses change over time, it is more than just ticks :)
03:09<kamnet_>They're all just Dates, houses, vehicles, they're all just tchotchke.
03:10<kamnet_>You could strip it down to ticks, and a sprite of a box that moves across a grid.
03:11<kamnet_>Qbert, it's like openttd.
03:12<andythenorth>Alberth: I was going to reply suggesting newgrf
03:12<andythenorth>but then I realised I was being a dick :(
03:13<kamnet_>*laughs* Strange how that happens, isn't it?
03:14<andythenorth>“I *only* want to change x”
03:14<andythenorth>and to prove that I only want to change x
03:15<andythenorth>I shall enumerate all the things I do not want
03:15<andythenorth>“I would like just a coffee please”
03:15<andythenorth>“Not tea, nor juice, nor biscuits, cake, fruit, pies, crisps, water, beer, wine”
03:15<@Alberth>it helps in establishing how different people have different views
03:16<andythenorth>“Nor sandwiches, peppers, salad, chips, beans, fajitas”
03:16<kamnet_>Stop, you're making me hungry!
03:16<kamnet_>Now I want all those things
03:16<@Alberth>kamnet_ just wants all food :) much easier to specify :p
03:17*kamnet_ is a newfood hoarder. :D
03:17<Supercheese>Goal: Deliver 0.2 tons of food to kamnet
03:17<andythenorth>from a regression testing angle, it can be great to have a list of all that must be tested, and must not change
03:17<@Alberth>:O that's a lot
03:18<Supercheese>well, he did want *all* the things
03:22*andythenorth wonders about daylength?
03:22<andythenorth>what is it for?
03:24<V453000>for making a game longer when you want it shorter
03:24<kamnet_>Even if I like longer games? :-)
03:25<andythenorth>but _why_ :(
03:26<andythenorth>_why_ do these people keep asking?
03:26*andythenorth adopts puzzled whiny voice
03:27<V453000>I think one reason is servers which run for a long time with huge maps and only a little amount of players at the same time
03:27<V453000>so it is nicer to drag the game out for XXXX years
03:27<V453000>which I think is reasonable use actually
03:27<andythenorth>that sounds like a waste of life
03:27<andythenorth>what’s wrong with pause?
03:28<V453000>for example an international server with people from all aroudn the world, there is always at least 1 person online, but not many more
03:28<kamnet_>I spent nearly four years playing the same game, and only getting 20 years in.
03:28<V453000>so it never pauses and time runs fast for everybody cause they wake up and it is decades ahead
03:28<V453000>when you play, normal speed is great
03:28<V453000>when you are offline, it feels like most of the game has passed when you reconnect after ie 20 hours
03:30<andythenorth>if they care enough
03:30<andythenorth>they should make a newgrf
03:30<andythenorth>and stop filling up the forums with multiple patches that don’t work
03:30<andythenorth>it’s a pretty easy newgrf
03:31<andythenorth>or they just turn on ‘vehicles never expire’
03:31<andythenorth>as god intended
03:31<andythenorth>daylength should be filed under ‘all these people are wrong'
03:38<Supercheese>isn't there already a grf for the default vehicles or something?
03:38<Supercheese>I recall delayed intro grf
03:38<andythenorth>so the problem is solved?
03:38<andythenorth>but still they keep asking?
03:39*andythenorth is in a grumble
03:39<andythenorth>bad andythenorth
03:40<@Alberth>I have a cement plant and a lime kiln next to each other in FIRS 1.4.4, is that intended?
03:40<andythenorth>does it seem good?
03:41<Supercheese>well they both want coal and stone eh
03:42<@Alberth>yep, was about to look for some coal :)
03:42<andythenorth>you won’t be able to deliver to both from one station :)
03:42*andythenorth decides that placement is ‘intended'
03:42<andythenorth>because…not going to change it
03:42<@Alberth>hmm, good point :)
03:43<andythenorth>you can muck about with last-hop feeders, but ugh
03:43<@Alberth>I'll build 2 stations, much easier
03:44<andythenorth>maybe there is some complex conditional order you could use o_O
03:45<@Alberth>something like load full stone; unload if accepted; unload if accepted; done?
03:45<Supercheese>no conditional orders for partial unloads
03:46<@Alberth>cdist wouldn't know what to do with it anyway :)
03:46<andythenorth>industries like this can be a good case for ‘load any available’
03:46<andythenorth>when there are coal mine, quarry etc near each other
03:47<andythenorth>(including a station refit)
03:47<andythenorth>best use I’ve found for that type station refit
03:49<andythenorth>Alberth: I wonder if BB is 1.0.0?
03:49<@Alberth>sounds like a good case
03:49<andythenorth>BB works for me in my recent game
03:49<andythenorth>no changes
03:50<@Alberth>#7521 fix would be nice, as would #7496
03:50<@Alberth>but minor issues
03:51<@Alberth>I quite like how it turned out
03:52<andythenorth>simple ftw
03:56<andythenorth>think I’ll get a few more games out of it before I get bored
04:01<@Alberth>it makes a different game, there is much less incentive to make a huge transport network
04:01<andythenorth>I find my network is more dispersed
04:01<andythenorth>and less congested
04:02<@Alberth>many small lines :)
04:02<andythenorth>it’s not so good with FIRS Basic economies
04:02<andythenorth>or rather, the economies are not so good with BB
04:03<@Alberth>had that problem with default tropical as well
04:03<andythenorth>tried it with Full FIRS?
04:03<@Alberth>not sure what is wrong then
04:03<@Alberth>working on full FIRS :)
04:03<andythenorth>it makes Full FIRS relaxing, instead of insane
04:04<@Alberth>but with NARS for the first time, huge running costs :p
04:04*andythenorth hasn’t played NARS for ages
04:04<andythenorth>maybe I should
04:05<@Alberth>BB doesn't give you large money making goals
04:05<Supercheese>Then you face the choice of old NARS and its BAD FEATURES or new NARS
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04:05<Wolf01>hi hi
04:05<@Alberth>I have version 2.5
04:05<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
04:06<andythenorth>BAD FEATURES of course
04:07<Supercheese>I'm actually using NARS 2.03 in my current game... because I went back and added in autorefit support
04:07<@Alberth>doodlebug seems buggy though
04:07<@Alberth>aren't the advertised running costs supposed to be the high running costs?
04:07<Supercheese>so now I can have the NARS trains run around and carry freight on every leg of the journey
04:08<@Alberth>ah, nice
04:08<Supercheese>I should probably post the override grf I made for that
04:08<@Alberth>don't do refit much
04:08<supermop>do non-americans generally understand "rimshot soundeffect" as a joke punctuation?
04:08<supermop>seems very idiomatic
04:08<Supercheese>I hear tell that lots of folks still like NARS 2.03
04:08<supermop>too many folks?
04:08<@Alberth>supermop: I don't
04:09<supermop>hooray my conjecture is validated
04:09<Supercheese>Hmm yeah, it hadn't occurred to me but I guess the "make a joke, drummer hits 2 snares and cymbal" trope may be exclusive to America
04:09<andythenorth>supermop: “rimshot” is definitely something else here
04:09<supermop>i think it may come exclusively from old american late night shows rather than even american stand up or vaudeville comedy
04:10<Supercheese>also, apparently it is called a Sting:
04:10<Supercheese>I never knew
04:10<andythenorth>don’t look up the UK English for rimshot
04:10<supermop>where the talk show has a band to respond to the host's jokes
04:11<supermop>portmanteau of rimjob and cumshot?
04:11<supermop>efficient use of language if so
04:11<andythenorth>family channel
04:11<Supercheese>one can only presume
04:11<Supercheese>"In British English, boom boom is commonly used." wait what
04:11<andythenorth>basil brush
04:12<andythenorth>that is safe to look
04:12<supermop>do they use kick bass instead of snare?
04:12<andythenorth>for gags
04:14<supermop>patch game to remove time and date
04:16<supermop>choose a decade at game start and never leave it
04:16<andythenorth>eddi once made me a patch
04:16<andythenorth>reset the year at year end
04:17<andythenorth>second time, it rolled over
04:17<andythenorth>worked well
04:17<andythenorth>except for odd vehicle availablility characteristics :D
04:17<Supercheese>so yearlength rather than daylength?
04:17<Supercheese>or well, multiyearlength
04:17<Supercheese>or... I don't even know
04:17<supermop>seems sensible
04:18<supermop>in that case id just as soon never see the month though
04:18<andythenorth>but then you wouldn’t know why it’s snowing
04:18<supermop>or display month as 'hour'
04:19<supermop>and days as twos of minutes
04:19<Supercheese>well TTD wouldn't even show you the day of the month unless the game was paused
04:19<Supercheese>I'm not even sure OTTD has a setting for that
04:19<supermop>really i want a way to timetable without any damn Februaries
04:20<supermop>what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever
04:21*andythenorth has to go
04:21<Supercheese>we have a Nighttime OGFX, we could do day/night cycle
04:21<andythenorth>if you could just finish FIRS recode by the time I’m back, fanks
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04:58<Eddi|zuHause><supermop> what about a sim city sort of thing whereby there is a fake time of day completely independent of displayed year or whatever <-- we've had this patch for like a decade now...
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05:27<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: is it still maintained?
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08:27<andythenorth>sun cat
08:45<@Alberth>pretty much all cats like sun
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09:01<frosch123>likely depends on how close they get to it
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09:09<supermop>inverse square law?
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09:24<supermop>i want a random lloyds bank building generator
09:24<supermop>wonder if that can be done in newgrf
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09:30<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i don't think any cat ever got much closer than 150 mio km
09:30<andythenorth>galactic cat
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: +/- 1% :)
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>let's say 10% to be safe :)
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09:46<andythenorth>wondering if I should automate FIRS incompatible industry checks
09:46<andythenorth>look for mappings of accepted / provided cargo
09:48<andythenorth>currently maintained manually
09:48<andythenorth>and somewhat inconsistent
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10:05<andythenorth>is ‘nearby_cluster’ mostly a tautology?
10:05*andythenorth wonders aloud
10:12*andythenorth labels something ‘list_of_arbitrary_numbers'
10:12<andythenorth>dunno what they do :)
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10:30<andythenorth>440 arable farms in 3 clusters
10:31<andythenorth>how do I screenshot the minimap? :P
10:31<V453000>just ctrl S like anything else doesnt work<
10:32<V453000>other than normal printscreen into photoshop ofc :D
10:36<andythenorth>I quite often want the whole minimap
10:36<andythenorth>but I have a 13” laptop screen
10:36<andythenorth>I guess I could put it into stupid retina resolution
10:39<frosch123>in the past X servers used to supply a big virtual screen, and the real screen showed a part of it, with mouse-panning at the edges
10:39<frosch123>i wonder though whether anyone ever used that
10:42<andythenorth>VNC does similar
10:42<andythenorth>when the only industry is arable farm
10:43<andythenorth>the minimap looks neat
10:43<andythenorth>two-thirds of the map is neatly spaced farms
10:43<andythenorth>the rest is empty
10:43<andythenorth>because it’s an island map, the clusters are restricted by island :P
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11:36<andythenorth>arable farms on snow
11:36*andythenorth is not done yet
11:37<@Alberth>it makes frozen vegetables?
11:41<Sylf>I like frozen oranges.
11:50<andythenorth>what’s the empty string I can return to text cbs?
11:50<andythenorth>I thought I saved it
11:50<andythenorth>maybe logs know
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11:52<andythenorth>ha ha, logs
11:53<andythenorth>usually that takes longer
12:00<andythenorth>CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT is not defined
12:00<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
12:00<andythenorth>strings have to be strings
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12:10<@Alberth>STR_EMPTY :
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12:14<ohaz>Hey guys, how can I save my game on a dedicated server via rcon? using rcon <password> save <filename> just shows me "-Save the current game. Usage: 'save <filename>'
12:14<@Alberth>add quotes around the save <filename> part probably
12:14<@Alberth>at least that's a regular question/anser here :)
12:15<ohaz>ah, that works, thanks :D
12:16<@Alberth>yw :)
12:17<andythenorth>Alberth: how’s your game? o_O
12:20<@Alberth>, 1935-10-12.sav just 20 years running
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12:31<andythenorth>one big route
12:33<andythenorth>I like the island in the north
12:33<@Alberth>re-organized the steel factory recently
12:34<andythenorth>doodlebugs :P
12:34<andythenorth>are not good
12:34<@Alberth>they're quite bad :)
12:34*andythenorth should play NARS 2
12:34<@Alberth>long stone route is a bit of an accident
12:35<@Alberth>I had large parts of the route already
12:35<andythenorth>how many goals have you completed?
12:35*andythenorth wonders about an optional global goal: “Complete n goals”
12:36<@Alberth>no idea, 10-15 or so?
12:36<andythenorth>maybe global goal is terrible idea
12:36<andythenorth>not really the point
12:36<@Alberth>as you can see I am losing about 2/3 of my income to running costs
12:37<andythenorth>pikka makes you work ;)
12:37<@Alberth>yeah, it's quite neatly balanced imho
12:37<@Alberth>although I only use the very cheapest engines
12:37<andythenorth>road hog is much more generous :P
12:37<andythenorth>220k income, 33k cost
12:38<@Alberth>all the more expensive ones are not economical with BB
12:38<@Alberth>bit of a waste
12:39<@Alberth>oh, it has an option "reduce vehicle costs" :)
12:40<andythenorth>I find there’s far too many big steam engines in 1920s
12:41<andythenorth>there are 6 introduced within ~15 years
12:41<andythenorth>and the stats overlap rather
12:41<andythenorth>same with diesels in 1960s
12:41<@Alberth>if you sort on running costs, it doesn't help much
12:41<andythenorth>but pikka knows all this :)
12:41<andythenorth>hence pineapple
12:42<andythenorth>maybe we need daylength?
12:43<@Alberth>newgrf authors should refrain from giving the user too many engines, imho
12:44<@Alberth>but it's easy and tempting to add more engines
12:45<andythenorth>having to draw them reduces the temptation :P
12:45<@Alberth>you could spread engines over the different climates for example
12:45<andythenorth>or rosters :P
12:45<@Alberth>something like that
12:48<@Alberth>but likely, different users have different wishes here
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13:25<kirjs_______>Hi, I'm trying to find 'autorenew' option, but advanced settings are gone
13:25<kirjs_______>any idea where it could be now?
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13:26<kirjs_______>nevermind, got it
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27239 /trunk/src/lang (latin.txt lithuanian.txt) (2015-04-18 19:45:30 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latin - 3 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 92 changes by Stabilitronas
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13:53<DanMacK>Hey all
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>you get dents in the rails.
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm pretty sure we had this one before)
16:45<Wolf01>sure, the post date is 2011
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16:59<andythenorth>hmm 2880 bags of mail on this ship
16:59<andythenorth>how rare
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>it's like sectors on a floppy
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>remember when games came on like 15 floppy disks?
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>now you go on steam, buy a game, and have it playable in like 2 minutes
17:03<andythenorth>not on my mac :(
17:04<andythenorth>more like, buy a game, wonder why it doesn’t work
17:06*andythenorth redesigns Squid
17:06<andythenorth>I guess that will be version 3
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>so call it fish 4?
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20:54*kamnet|AFK is bored
20:55*kamnet|AFK thinks he will research something else.
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21:06<kamnet|AFK>Or maybe I should go work on my scenario
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22:18<kamnet|AFK>The bad thing about building a 4096^2 scenario from scratch is that you easily get bored with the monotony of trying to sculpt the landscape
22:18<kamnet|AFK>The current scenario editor is really inadequate for this
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23:25<Flygon_>kamnet: It'd be neat to somehow import real life map somehow...
23:25<Flygon_>As in
23:26<Flygon_>Waterways, rocks, trees, heightmap of course, ect...
23:26-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
23:26<Flygon>But that'd be really hard
23:26<kamnet|AFK>There's a few ways of doing that now, with some patches.
23:27<kamnet|AFK>and a few outside scripts
23:32<Flygon>Yeah, but is the data available in a single neat package?
23:33<Flygon>I forgot Google Maps is a thing
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 19 00:00:31 2015