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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-23

---Logopened Thu Apr 23 00:00:45 2015
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05:48<supermop>yo
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09:16<LSky`>the age old discussion on path signals & performance issues has come up, once again, in our server community. is there any developer who would be willing to give their input there?
09:16<LSky`>http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/33ibyu/path_signal_abuse/cqlmweg
09:18<@planetmaker>If nothing changed, the old arguments are still valid and a link to an old discussion would do, no?
09:19<LSky`>I would say so, yeah
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10:30<@peter1138>Will be good when we finally purge block signals.
10:31<Flygon_><Flygon> Wait
10:31<Flygon_><Flygon> People play OTTD with sound on? O_O
10:31<Flygon_><Flygon> Er
10:31<Flygon_><Flygon> Wrong channel
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10:31<@peter1138>:)
10:32<@peter1138>I did, when running sounds were in vogue.
10:32<Flygon>Man...
10:32<Flygon>This reminds me
10:32<Flygon>That I need to get my gaming PC speakers
10:32<Flygon>Oh gee sure I got a modern GPU and all that blows my mind
10:33<Flygon>But cbf spending $30 on a pair of speakers
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11:33<@Alberth>moin
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11:42<Flygon>The moment Flygon realizes that the 'block roads' function exists to disable level crossings
11:42<Flygon>O________O
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12:46<@Alberth>hola
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12:51<frosch123>moin
12:51<V453000>hy
12:51<V453000>sooo I was fiddling with CC masks
12:52<V453000>and I think they make 32bpp look WAY worse
12:52<V453000>even if I try to make them as good as possible
12:52<frosch123>i think we need to change the algorithm :)
12:52<V453000>if possible, definitely
12:53<frosch123>instead of plain brightness * single colour, the brigthness should index into a complete colour table
12:53<V453000>yeah something like that
12:53<frosch123>so, when using CC1 from brightness 0 to 255, it does not go from black to white, but uses specific hue curves
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12:54<V453000>yes
12:54<frosch123>then light brown can be different from dark yellow
12:54<V453000>mhm :)
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13:32<Wolf01>o/
13:38<@Alberth>moin
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13:52<frosch123>our pool new/delete operators result in such a mess :/
13:56<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2vpdxstj?/p2vpdxstj <- fs#6285
13:57<frosch123>since engines have no proper copy constructor, the auto-resizing of the std::vector breaks then engines
13:57<frosch123>which then results in duplicate frees
13:57<frosch123>breaking everything :p
13:58<@Alberth>oh dear :(
14:01<V453000>I dont think I understood a word you said :D
14:03<@planetmaker>hm :S
14:04<@Alberth>this is all due to having a bunch of structs, I guess
14:05<frosch123>the pool new/delete operators cause trouble all over the palce
14:05<frosch123>they break the zero-intialising
14:05<frosch123>make stuf different for dynamic/static allocation
14:05<frosch123>and more :)
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14:17<andythenorth>o/
14:17<andythenorth>the game needs more politics
14:17<andythenorth>“Due to politics, your steel mill is shut"
14:17<andythenorth>GS
14:18<andythenorth>“Better trains are available, but due to politics, you have to use this one”
14:18<andythenorth>“Due to politics, your trucks are restricted to 20mph"
14:19<frosch123>better make it a maniac chairman gs
14:20<frosch123>"the chairman discovered that steelmill X melts old train engines. he declared it as non-existant to the company"
14:20<andythenorth>it’s not a long way from Busy Bee goals to “Five Year Plan"
14:20<frosch123>"the chairman took a tour on the backseat of one of your vehicles, they are now limited to 20mph"
14:20<andythenorth>ha
14:20<andythenorth>did someone propose buses with racial segregation here once?
14:21<andythenorth>or was that just a horrible dream I had
14:21<frosch123>"the chairman does not like yellow, change the company livery"
14:21<andythenorth>charge for repainting
14:21<frosch123>andythenorth: quite sure it must have been on the forums
14:21<andythenorth>livery GUI is so dumb
14:21<andythenorth>but nvm
14:22*andythenorth considers a five-year-plan economy in FIRS
14:22<andythenorth>‘workers must be moved to remote camps'
14:22<andythenorth>probably better for YETI
14:22<frosch123>don't forget to add a daylength parameter wrt. the 5 years :p
14:24*Wolf01 is bored
14:25<frosch123>10 days till full moon :)
14:25<andythenorth>Wolf01: write a GS
14:25*andythenorth ponders inverse Busy Bee
14:25<andythenorth>Inverse Bee
14:25<andythenorth>“Don’t deliver cargo to x"
14:26<andythenorth>might be more challenging than it sounds
14:27<Wolf01>I should update the patch I made for our proprietary CMS, but I don't want to touch any code right now :(
14:27<andythenorth>you can’t ship on a Friday anyway
14:27<andythenorth>although you could do it tonight, get it to QA tomorrow, ship Monday?
14:29<Wolf01>of which year? our CMS is a "there-is-always-something-to-improve-or-fix" so we don't even have a release schedule... not that we didn't try
14:29<andythenorth>does it have customers?
14:29<andythenorth>or internal use?
14:30<Wolf01>both
14:30<andythenorth>trickier with customers
14:30<andythenorth>release announcements, downtime, migrations etc
14:30<Wolf01>but the internal use is limited to a demo which might be updated to... last summer
14:31<andythenorth>release schedule is !(Friday, Saturday, Sunday) no?
14:31<andythenorth>any other time is valid
14:31<Wolf01>nah, it's almost like wordpress, just publish the new files and run the updater
14:33<andythenorth>commit...test...push
14:33<andythenorth>Improved!
14:33*andythenorth goes back to doing things
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14:42<Wolf01>'lo kamnet
14:42<frosch123>the creator of unique music sets for unique users :)
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14:44<kamnet|AFK>Hello Wolf01. how's the day?
14:45<Wolf01>cloudy
14:45<Wolf01>(both the sky and my mood)
14:45<kamnet|AFK>Surprisingly decent here today, but rain coming this weekend.
14:46<kamnet|AFK>andythenorth: BTW you didn't imagine that, somebody did propose it once, as a suggestion to reflect the historical accuracy of South African apartheid politics.
14:46<Wolf01>yeah, I feel the rain coming because of a nasty pain on my back
14:46<kamnet|AFK>I hate that. I typically feel it in my knees. Wife feels it in her hands. GF feels it pretty much all over.
14:46-!-kamnet|AFK is now known as kamnet
14:46<frosch123>kamnet|AFK: someone also suggested to make mines consume prisoners
14:47<kamnet>Mines consume prisoner? That's interesting. How about a volcano industry that consumes virgin sacrifices?
14:48<frosch123>hmm, we didn't have a cargo class discussion for long
14:48<frosch123>what cargo classes to sacrificial virgins have?
14:48<frosch123>hazardous?
14:49<kamnet>Valuables.
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14:49<kamnet>Maybe YETIshould have a Soylent Corporation factory that requires only workers and produces food?
14:51<Wolf01>isn't it already like that?
14:52<frosch123>isn't food in yeti like beer?
14:52<Wolf01>I mean, you just carry workers to industries, you don't bring them back at their houses
14:52<frosch123>so, beer produced by workers without further incredients :)
14:53<frosch123>except maybe other beer for the workers
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14:54<Wolf01>it would be cool if you have a finite number of workers and you must provide them routes to reach the industries, then expand the cities with the produced goods to have more workers to produce more goods
14:55<andythenorth>just put a supplies depot in town
14:55<andythenorth>have production dependent on population
14:55<andythenorth>FIRS could do that trivially
14:56<andythenorth>recyclables production depends on population
14:56<andythenorth>don’t actually need to transport pax imho, the cargo isn’t significant
14:56*andythenorth considers it
14:57<V453000>that is kind of how it works Wolf :) but yes there should be returning workers Eventually
14:57<V453000>but since I do not code YETI, I cant tell you when will that happen :)
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16:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27243 trunk/src/saveload/engine_sl.cpp (2015-04-23 22:07:07 +0200 )
16:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26816) [FS#6285]: Duplicate frees due to pool item classes not having copy constructors.
16:08-!-DanMacK [~3265a604@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:09<DanMacK>Hey all
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16:46<andythenorth>bed time
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17:03<Wolf01>'night
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18:09<Odin>Anyone know offhand if the weight multiplier for freight trains also adjusts their profitability?
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18:12<Odin>For some reason most of the NARS engines have enough traction to pull like 30 car trains- and are unprofitable if they don't
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20:11<Sylf>Odin, the weight multiplier doesn't touch the payment
20:12<Sylf>the slower acceleration will lead to very slight reduction in payment (if at all), and that's about it.
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20:59<Odin>Testing it some, I find that the profitability takes a nosedive
21:01<Odin>It seems like it should literally multiply the amount of cargo held by each car in order to protect the engine's profitability while allowing the trains to be shortened to where it properly fits the game
21:01<Odin>I've ended up making 14 and 21 car trains to be pulled by some pretty little locomotives
21:03<Odin>Initially it just makes it accelerate a little slower, but when it gets to a point where the train has to be shortened it does't take long for profitability to be impossible
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22:18<Flygon>I still reckon a mode to reduce the rate of acceleration for everything in the game'd be neat, independant of weight/hills ect
22:18<Flygon>As in, literally slow down the game
22:19<Flygon>Because some pax trains I get accelerate ludicrously fast for what they have <_>
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22:47<Odin>I end up runing the Lima Shay from NARS for everything except passenger and trunk line service
22:47<Odin>All the short line freight routes, the shay engine pulls a stupidly long train so easily and is super cheap to operate
22:49<Odin>Trunk lines I usually run the 2-10-4 Texas, the 2-8-8-2 Mallet, or the 2-6-6-4 Challenger
22:49<Odin>and I basically can't actually load down any of these, the trains become impossible to handle in length
22:52<Odin>Thing is though, its basically impossible for these big engines to be profitable without having enormously long trains that are difficult to work with in-game
22:53<Odin>If the freight multiplier could hang more tonnage off the drawbar without killing profitability, it would make them easier to use
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 24 00:00:46 2015