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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-28

---Logopened Tue Apr 28 00:00:52 2015
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01:02<kamnet>Evening again
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02:57<andythenorth>is that captain hook?
03:02*andythenorth has a GS mechanic, but no catchy narrative
03:03<andythenorth>Pikka bob, ^ mechanic is ‘deliver at least n amount to all industries of type x’ to win
03:03<andythenorth>what is reason please?
03:03<Pikka>reason? does there have to be a reason?
03:03<andythenorth>even if it’s tenuous
03:04<andythenorth>or spurious
03:04<andythenorth>or dubious
03:05*andythenorth needs a name
03:05<andythenorth>something like “Universal Coverage” or something
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04:37<andythenorth>what what
04:37*andythenorth will to FIRS today
04:38<andythenorth>pikka has blogged
04:38*andythenorth reads
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04:40*Pikka did some work on coastlines today, went well.
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04:42<andythenorth>Pikka: greyhound? o_O
04:42<andythenorth>pineapple trucks are go?
04:45<Pikka>they are
04:46<andythenorth>dekatora also?
04:53<Pikka>maybe for kick starter backers? ;)
05:13<V453000>maybe just caused by me not being american but that RV looks weird to me :P
05:14<Pikka>weird compared to what? slugs? :P
05:17<V453000>no, "a car* a truck* a bus" I would imagine in europez
05:19<V453000>sligs look perfectly normal too :P
05:19<andythenorth>the dekotora looks weird?
05:21<Pikka>the greyhound bus I assume
05:21<V453000>that. :)
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07:08<Flygon_>That satisfying feeling
07:08-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
07:08<Flygon>A freight train juuuust barely hits it's maximum speed
07:09<Flygon>After juuust enough acceleration
07:09<Flygon>On flat ground
07:10<Flygon>You're correct
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08:35<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: sounds like it's underpowered
08:36<Flygon>Sounds like it was 1924
08:36<Flygon>Only used two steam locos <_>
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09:14<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... wtf are the controls in KSP? i've started the tutorial, and am stuck with attaching the fuel tank...
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09:15<Eddi|zuHause>also, i can't even go to any menu...
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09:24<Eddi|zuHause>this tutorial isn't much of a tutorial
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>no, this just doesn't work...
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>can ANYBODY explain it to me please?
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09:40<andythenorth>ha ha
09:40<andythenorth>I couldn’t work KSP either
09:40<andythenorth>despite 4 people in my office explaining it
09:40<andythenorth>I manage to get a Kerbal into a rocket, but I couldn’t start the engine
09:41<andythenorth>I did get the Kerbal to jump out of the capsule though
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10:19<Ox4>hey guys
10:20<Ox4>could somebody explain me this one: Deliver 100 bags of mail 100 squares in 100 days:
10:20<Ox4>£55 * 100 squares * (1 - 80*0.004 - 10*0.004) = £3520?
10:20<Ox4>I got it from the wiki page:
10:20<Ox4>early delivery time for mail is 20 and late is 90 days
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10:22<Ox4>from what time the counter starts? when the one unit of cargo is loaded in a vehicle, or when a vehicle arrives?
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm stuck at the very beginning. it says "fuel tank goes green when it's at a suitible position", but no matter where i place it, it doesn't work
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10:39<Johnnei>@Ox4, Tried to look it up for you but I can't really spot where exactly the transit time is being reset. (but I'm also very new to the code)
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10:46<andythenorth>50 / 66
10:50<@Rubidium>Ox4: is much clearer with respect to the actual calculations and such
10:50<@Rubidium>the one in game mechanics looks kinda iffy to me at best
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>Ox4: be aware that "days" occasionally means "2.5 days"
10:53<Ox4>Eddi|zuHause: interesting... thank you
10:56<@Rubidium>my calculations end up with about 5100 instead of 3520 for 100 units of mail over 100 squares in 100 days
10:57<@Rubidium>@calc 4550*100*100*(100/2.5)*(255-(40-20))*2**-21
10:57<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 203943.252563
10:58<@Rubidium>hmm... what's going wrong there...
10:58<Johnnei>@calc 55 * 100 * (1 - 80 * 0.004 - 10 * 0.004)
10:58<@DorpsGek>Johnnei: 3520.0
10:59<@Rubidium>@calc 4550*100*100*(255-((100/2.5)-20))/2**21
10:59<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 5098.58131409
10:59<@Rubidium>there... that's the one
10:59<Johnnei>Or even more elaborate:
10:59<Johnnei>@calc 55 * 100 * (1 - (100 - 20) * 0.004 - (100 - 90) * 0.004)
10:59<@DorpsGek>Johnnei: 3520.0
11:00<@Rubidium>@calc 55*100*(1-((100/2.5)-20)*0.004)
11:00<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 5060
11:01<@Rubidium>I did not add the last one, because (100/2.5) < 90
11:01<Johnnei>It does work out, but the examples given are straight to the answer and don't show intermediate steps
11:02<@Rubidium>well.. 3520 is wrong, 5098 is "right"; just compare it with the in-game payment graph
11:03<@Rubidium>mail for the first 50 days is just below GBP 112 for 10 units over 20 tiles
11:03<Ox4>anyway I didn't find from what point the counter starts :-(
11:04<@Rubidium>@calc 55*100-(1-(50-20)*0.004-(50-90)*0.004)
11:04<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 5498.96
11:04<@Rubidium>hmm... that formula on the game mechanics even misses the amount...
11:05<@Rubidium>in any case, counting is whenever it's in a vehicle
11:05<Johnnei>The example given on the page assumes that no form of inflation has applied though
11:08<Ox4>Rubidium: hence, if capacity of a vehicle is smaller then the earining is bigger, right?
11:12<andythenorth>51 / 66
11:12<andythenorth>@calc 51/66
11:12<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.772727272727
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ox4: you earn more if the vehicle is immediately full on loading
11:17<Ox4>ok, one more question
11:19<Ox4>I am testing autoreplace feature and am receiving (money limit) message, but the current balance is $200k
11:19<Ox4>why the money limit is triggered?
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>Ox4: the money limit as set in the settings is what must be leftover after the replacement
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>so if the replacement costs 50k, and the limit is 200k, you need to have 250k for the replacement to happen
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>i think 200k is the default
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11:49<Ox4>Eddi|zuHause: understood, thank you
11:54<andythenorth>pyflakes hates me again
11:54<andythenorth>unused imports
11:55<andythenorth>over-enthusiastic find and replace :P
11:55<@Alberth>really unused ?
11:55<@Alberth>I had such a report too, but the import did have an important side-effect I needed
11:56<andythenorth>these are legit reports
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12:16<andythenorth>lo Terkhen
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12:50<andythenorth>12 more :P
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13:22<Zippyvinman>Anyone around?
13:24<Zippyvinman>Ayyyyyyyyyy anyone?
13:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27260 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-04-28 19:25:21 +0200 )
13:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27244): economy.allow_town_roads should not affect town placement during world generation.
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13:26<Zippyvinman>Let me know if anyone's around
13:26<frosch123>there are 140 people in this channel
13:26<Zippyvinman>I dont really know how IRC works
13:27<Zippyvinman>I was directed here from Reddit, I'm trying to set up an openTTD server
13:32<Zippyvinman>Anyone think they'd be able to help?
13:33<frosch123> <- you already have an answer
13:34<frosch123>anyway, you didn't ask a question
13:34<Zippyvinman>Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. I read on the wiki and it said about that. I have the debian server but I don't really know what I'm doing, hahaha
13:34<Zippyvinman>said about the IRC*
13:34<frosch123>apt-get install openttd
13:35<frosch123>sudo apt-get install openttd
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13:35<frosch123>then upload a savegame made with a client
13:35<frosch123>then run openttd -D -g mysavegame.sav
13:35<Zippyvinman>but I need to get open TTD don't I?
13:35<frosch123>sudo apt-get install openttd
13:35<Zippyvinman>just typing that will go find it online and download/install it?
13:36<Zippyvinman>or I need to put the installer or zip on the USB im booting from
13:36<frosch123>well, or use your package manager
13:36<Zippyvinman>I'm unsure what that is
13:36<frosch123>however you usually install stuff on your system
13:36<Zippyvinman>Im on a PC rn
13:36<Zippyvinman>Windows 7
13:36<Zippyvinman>I'm using another computer
13:37<Zippyvinman>I want to install it on it to be just used for openTTD
13:37<andythenorth>he needs to use whatever Debian provides for getting ports
13:37*andythenorth has no idea :P
13:37<frosch123>Zippyvinman: i have no idea what you are missing
13:37<Zippyvinman>I think I'll be able to open ports once I get there
13:37<frosch123>if you installed debian, you can also install openttd
13:37<frosch123>openttd is part of all major linux distributions
13:37<Zippyvinman>one sec
13:38<andythenorth>frosch123: that concept is quite magical if you’re unfamiliar with linux and ports trees and such :)
13:38<Zippyvinman>I went here
13:38<Zippyvinman>and got the small USB install for AMD processor
13:38<frosch123>so, you do not have it installed?
13:38<andythenorth>what should happen if he just types ‘openttd’ or such?
13:39<Zippyvinman>The computer that I have plugged the USB in with the ISO in, I booted from ISO, and I have the command line I believe
13:40<frosch123>ok, type "whoami"
13:40<frosch123>does it say "root"? or something else?
13:40<Zippyvinman>got nothing
13:40<Zippyvinman>doesn't take keystrokes look like
13:40<Zippyvinman>typing makes beepps
13:40<frosch123>ok, please refer to the manual for installing linux then :)
13:41<Zippyvinman>ohhhhhhhh ok
13:41*andythenorth learns how it works
13:44<Zippyvinman>Can I run Ubuntu or no? It's a bit easier with a GUI for me but I'm not sure if I can run it through it
13:45<frosch123>why don't you just run a server on your windows machine?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27261 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-04-28 19:45:14 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 1 changes by abbedabb
13:46<Zippyvinman>I probably could. Does it use a lot of RAM?
13:46<frosch123>no, zero
13:46<frosch123>exactly the same as a client
13:46<Zippyvinman>one sec
13:46<frosch123>if you are playing yourself, you need no extra resources
13:46<Zippyvinman>I'll be playing with 2-3 friends
13:47<frosch123>doesn't matter
13:47<frosch123>if you are playing, you get the server for free
13:47<frosch123>no extra resouces
13:47<frosch123>the clients simulate the game state, not the server
13:47<Zippyvinman>What if they want to play when I'm not on?
13:47<Zippyvinman>like in the same game
13:47<frosch123>well, your client needs to keep running
13:48<frosch123>whatever computer is the server needs to keep running
13:48<Zippyvinman>Could I run the server separately on the same computer? Like a non-gui version that runs in the background that I can connect to?
13:48<frosch123>then you need twice the cpu power
13:48<frosch123>you can just run the gui client, and join spectators when not playing yourself
13:49<Zippyvinman>TBH I could just run it on other computer directly
13:49<frosch123>running a separate server on the same machine does not add anything good
13:49<Zippyvinman>it has 7 installed I believe
13:49<Zippyvinman>I think I'm gonna do a fresh install of 7 on my other PC. How should I go about deleting everything? I can do that from the install right?
13:50<Zippyvinman>I have the disc
13:50<frosch123>we do not ship openttd on discs
13:50<Zippyvinman>I mean my windows 7, haha
13:50<frosch123>no idea, never installed 7
13:51<Zippyvinman>I'll just try it without reinstalling, I need to open ports for MP still, yes?
13:51<frosch123>yes, by default noone but the nsa may connect to your computer
13:51<frosch123>you have to let your friends in
13:52<frosch123>you have to battle the firewall in yuor router, and in your computer
13:52<frosch123>when your server is on, you have won
13:53<+glx>(if advertising is enabled ;) )
13:53<Zippyvinman>I have my computer's firewall turned to low, so that shouldn't be a problem. Is that a metaphor for I just gotta try it out and see if it'll work?
13:53<Zippyvinman>And how does advertising work? that's like if I wanted it public right?
13:53<frosch123>you will have to configure your router in any case
13:54<+glx>yes advertising shows it in the list
13:54<frosch123>advertise means that it will be listed on and your friends can see it
13:54<Zippyvinman>Yeah, I'll be able to do that. I need to do it on both my router, as well as the modem?
13:54<Zippyvinman>or just one of the two
13:54<frosch123>if you do not advertise you have to tell your friends your ip address, but if it doesn't work you will have no idea whethe the problem is on your or their side
13:55<+glx>only the server needs ports opening
13:55<frosch123>so, for the first time you should definetly use "advertised"
13:55<Zippyvinman>Yeah, I can just put a password on it, right?
13:55<frosch123>if it is necessary
13:56<frosch123>but usually noone joins your server
13:56<frosch123>if you take a look at, most are empty
13:57<Zippyvinman>Ah, ok, installing openttd on the computer now
14:00<Zippyvinman>Ok, so I'm gonna log onto my modem or router to open ports, does it matter which?
14:01<@DorpsGek>frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:01<Zippyvinman>But on Router or Modem?
14:02<frosch123>i have no idea what's the difference of those two
14:02<frosch123>i only have one box to connect to the internet
14:02<@Alberth>everything that blocks outbound communication from your computer to "the internet" at those ports
14:03<Zippyvinman>My modem sends internet to my router I thoughtt
14:03<Zippyvinman>I have Verizon Fios and it's like a 2 in 1 dealio, or maybe it's just a second router
14:03<Zippyvinman>pretty sure it's a modem
14:03<Zippyvinman>I'll log into it first and see if it works
14:03<+glx>usually outbound is not blocked, but inbound needs unblocking
14:04<@Alberth>good point glx
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14:07<Wolf01>hi hi
14:07<Zippyvinman>Ok, I got onto the modem
14:08<Zippyvinman>under firewall and portforwarding
14:08<frosch123>Wolf01: only 5.5 days till full moon :)
14:08<Zippyvinman>It says there are two IPs for the computer I'm trying to host it on, one with a 0 and one with a 1 at the end, how do I know which to use?
14:09<Zippyvinman>wrong computer ^
14:10<Zippyvinman>Ok so its asking for source ports and destination ports
14:10<Zippyvinman>which is it that I'm putting "Any" for and which gets the above?
14:11<frosch123>set both to the same value
14:11<frosch123>ports 3978 and 3979
14:11<Zippyvinman>Ok one sec
14:11<frosch123>both udp and tcp
14:11<frosch123>sometimes you can do that with two forwards, sometimes you have to configure four
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14:12<Zippyvinman>hmmm ok I'll start with the 3979 and then UDP 3978 and TCP 3978
14:15<Zippyvinman>Ok, got them open
14:15<Zippyvinman>Now I go on the client and try to start it up?
14:15<frosch123>yes, just in main menu go to multiplayer, start server, advertised:yes, start
14:15<frosch123>then hope it shows up on
14:18<Zippyvinman>darn, not there
14:18<Zippyvinman>should the ports be Any -> 3978/3979?
14:18<Zippyvinman>instead of itself
14:23<Zippyvinman>hmmm tryiing out some other stuff
14:24<Zippyvinman>It's ok if I have a different DNS on my comp right?
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14:30<Zippyvinman>Anyone else around?
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14:32<frosch123> <- it should look something like that
14:33<Zippyvinman>oh shhit I messed something up
14:34<Zippyvinman>I accidentally deleted something that popped up, shouldn't have deleted it...
14:34<Zippyvinman>It was a UPnP IGD UDP something like that. I tookk a picture before I deleted it so If I fucked up I'd at least know what it was
14:35<Zippyvinman>but I have no Idea how to make it again :(
14:35<Zippyvinman>im gonna restart my router and hope for the best
14:35<Zippyvinman>I may reconnect brb
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14:39<Zippyvinman>ok, back
14:42<@DorpsGek>Zippyvinman: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:44<Zippyvinman>now if I wanted to connect from IP through my other computer, which would I use?
14:44<Zippyvinman>My computer's external IP?
14:44<Zippyvinman>Like assuming it works
14:44<Zippyvinman>nvm, isn't showing up on server list
14:48<Zippyvinman>anyone else around?
14:51<@Alberth>you really want an answer to that question? :)
14:51<Zippyvinman>How about this : anyone wanna help me out :'(>
14:52<@Alberth>ask a question you need an answer for
14:53<Zippyvinman>why wont this work even though I believe the ports are correct
14:54<@Alberth>it showed up on the server list right?
14:55<Zippyvinman>This is so weird, the laptop's IPv4 address keeps changing
14:55<Zippyvinman>No, it's not
14:55<Zippyvinman>it keepps changing from to
14:55<Zippyvinman>it's changed from 0 to 1 now 0 again
14:55<@Alberth>192.168 is all local LAN
14:56<Zippyvinman>yeah, but it has two options for port forwarding
14:56<Zippyvinman>nothing else has 2 addresses
14:57<@Alberth>you're forwarding a local LAN address?
14:57<Zippyvinman>I think it's because I have 2 networks adapters
14:57<Zippyvinman>I'm trying to forward it to my laptop
14:57<Zippyvinman>the ports
14:58<Zippyvinman>I think so yeah
14:58<@Alberth>nobody here has an aidea of your network setup
14:58<@Alberth>except you hopefully :)
14:58<Zippyvinman>My laptop I'm using to run the server is connected by wireless and wired to my modem
14:59<Zippyvinman>i'll dc the wire so it's wireless only
14:59<Zippyvinman>yeah, wireless is 191
15:00<Zippyvinman>Ok, should I send a picture of the ports im forwarding?
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15:02<frosch123> <- you can also try that one
15:04<Zippyvinman>hmmm says its closed
15:04<Zippyvinman>heres what it looks like
15:05<Zippyvinman>it says the 3979 is open
15:05<Zippyvinman>78 closed
15:05<Zippyvinman>one sec
15:06<Zippyvinman>now it says its closed
15:06<Zippyvinman>now open
15:07<Zippyvinman>oh snap!
15:07<Zippyvinman>I got the computer connected
15:07<Zippyvinman>I had to add it manually
15:07<Zippyvinman>I guess advertising it just wont work
15:08<Zippyvinman>but typing my IP works fine
15:08<Zippyvinman>Could you do me a favor and see if you can find it too?
15:09<frosch123>what version are you running?
15:10<Zippyvinman>the stable
15:13<frosch123>no server at your external ip
15:13<frosch123>i.e. the one you use on irc
15:15<Zippyvinman>is that
15:15<Zippyvinman>try that
15:15<frosch123>the goon squad?
15:15<Zippyvinman>password zippy
15:17<Zippyvinman>Thanks so much!
15:17<Zippyvinman>what are some good things to get for the server?
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15:18<Zippyvinman>like mods plugins stuff like tthat
15:18<Zippyvinman>just me and my friends will be using it
15:18<frosch123>you should set it to pause when noone is playing
15:18<Zippyvinman>How do I do that? Is that in the cfg?
15:19<frosch123>just experiment with the rest
15:20<frosch123>then you can just join spectators when you are not playing
15:20<frosch123>and it will pause when everyone is specator or left
15:20<frosch123>if you want to play at different times of the day
15:20<Zippyvinman>ahhhh ok
15:21<Zippyvinman>any way to set the time change to be slower?
15:21<frosch123>you should set "vehicle never expire:on", "breakdowns:off" and start in the future when everything is available
15:21<Zippyvinman>but the economy stays the same speed and etc?
15:21<frosch123>otherwise your breaks downs while you are not playing
15:21<Zippyvinman>ah ok
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15:27<Zippyvinman>now do these settings only apply to the server?
15:27<frosch123>they apply to games
15:27<frosch123>set them on the server, start a game, and joining clients will use them
15:28<Zippyvinman>I can't edit these in game, right?
15:28<Zippyvinman>only via the file
15:28<frosch123>you can on the server
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15:28<frosch123>via the settings gui, or via the console
15:29<frosch123>but mind that changing stuff in main menu only affects new games
15:29<frosch123>and changing stuff within a game only affects the running game
15:29<frosch123>the settings are part of the savegame
15:29<Zippyvinman>ah ok
15:32<Zippyvinman>what's a good max length for trains?
15:32<frosch123>just experiment
15:32<frosch123>there are as many opinions as there are people here
15:32<Wolf01>I use 5-8 tiles
15:32<Zippyvinman>I can change any settings from the server while playing and it applies instantly right?
15:33<frosch123>most, not all
15:33<Zippyvinman>disasters/accidents yes?
15:33<frosch123>you can see in the gui, what is shaded and what is changeable
15:33<Zippyvinman>ahhh ok
15:34<Zippyvinman>What's your opinions of AI players?
15:34<frosch123>there are different types of ais
15:34<frosch123>competetive ones, normally playing ones, and passive ones
15:35<frosch123>the passive ones only build road networks and stuff for other players to use
15:35<frosch123>if you are not playing all the time, i think it makes little sense to run a competetiive ai along your friends
15:36<Alkel_U3>disasters are pretty annoying in a multiplayer game, especially the large UFO. You come back after a few decades of absence to find out your mainline railway's been blasted and the resulting jam ranges across a half of the map
15:40<Zippyvinman>where is auto pause located?
15:41<frosch123>likely not in the gui
15:41<frosch123>only in console
15:41<Zippyvinman>what's the command for that?
15:41<Zippyvinman>I know its the ~
15:42<frosch123>setting min_active_clients 1
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15:43<Zippyvinman>where do I join the spectators team?
15:43<Zippyvinman>like the server
15:43<frosch123>in the toolbar
15:43<frosch123>the face-button
15:44<frosch123>you can select the various companies, and "join spectators"
15:44<Zippyvinman>does there need to be at least one company? I don't see anything about spectators
15:45<frosch123>if there is no company at all, you are obviously specator
15:45<frosch123>then there is only "new company"
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15:45<Zippyvinman>im unnamed company 1
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15:48<Zippyvinman>thats so weird
15:49<Zippyvinman>I dont have that option
15:49<Zippyvinman>now i do
15:49<Zippyvinman>that's so weird
15:49<Zippyvinman>I didn't have that before
15:49<Zippyvinman>hmmmm I don't see the server now for some reason
15:50<Zippyvinman>says server offline
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15:55<Zippyvinman>nevermind, got it up
15:55<Zippyvinman>I gotta go anyway
15:55<Zippyvinman>be back later if I need more help, thanks!
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16:21<tyteen4a03>what is the maximum of the sprite cache?
16:23<tyteen4a03>frosch123, how much should I enter in sprite_cache_size_px if I want all 2GB?
16:23<tyteen4a03>alright thanks
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17:21<kamnet>Good evening for anybody who is still awake
17:26*kamnet ponders boxing up OpenTTD for retail sale. :D
17:29<Supercheese>to what end?
17:29<Supercheese>hard to sell what folks can get for free
17:30<Supercheese>although some folks do have success with that
17:34<__ln__>some people would certainly buy a box even if the contents would be free to download, but indeed what would be the selling point for the big audience?
17:34<__ln__>(i can imagine some, but all of those require quite a bit of money)
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19:07<kamnet>People who are too afraid to download from the Internet, but not too afraid to order online from Amazon?
19:11<FLHerne>Doing that might get someone to ask awkward questions about the origins of early OTTD?
19:13<FLHerne>OTOH, if anyone cared they'd probably have cared before now
19:17-!-|Truth| [~|Truth|] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:19<Supercheese>Herr Sawyer himself seems pretty chill about OTTD
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19:52<kamnet>I don't know about chill, but at least sees there's nothing to be gained by attempting to squash it.
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20:01<Supercheese>Forecast: Cloudy with a chance of pineapples
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23:20<Flygon>Accidentally erase natural river
23:20<Flygon>Can't rebuild it
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 29 00:00:53 2015