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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-04-29

---Logopened Wed Apr 29 00:00:53 2015
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00:19<Flygon>Is there any GRFs that basically acts as a 'blank' tile?
00:19<Flygon>As in, adding an object
00:19<Flygon>Say I don't want a median strip to have houses in it
00:20<Supercheese>Empty Tile grf
00:20<Supercheese>aptly named
00:21<Flygon>Alright, thanks :3
00:21<Supercheese>probably also on Bananas, checkin
00:21<Flygon>Yeah, was looking around, just found that one myself
00:21<Flygon>Thanks a tonne, man :3
00:21<Supercheese>ooh long ton
00:21<Supercheese>yeah seems to be called EmptyGRF on fruits
00:21<Flygon>When it's with me
00:22<Flygon>It's always long
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04:50<argoneus>I mean, trains.
05:05<Flygon>Dumb question
05:05<Flygon>Has Waypoints for Roads ever been requested?
05:09<Johnnei>It is listed on the wiki as a requested feature. Note: One can use "go via" orders on drive through road stops instead since r12689
05:09<Johnnei> (For good measure)
05:09<Flygon>Go figure
05:09<Flygon>Not exactly very elegant
05:09<Flygon>But, I lack any choice
05:10<Johnnei>The feature request isn't listed as closed, so I think the note just means to use it as work around until someone makes them
05:10<Flygon>Yeah, but
05:10<Flygon>It's an open source project
05:10<Flygon>I'll place my bets on "Glacial" :P
05:13<Johnnei>Ha :p I guess the devs just prefer to work on other stuff when there is a viable work around available
05:14<Flygon>Viable? It's uuugly :P
05:14<Flygon>And looks stupid on the setup I got :P
05:15*Flygon screenshots
05:19<Johnnei>-kuch- looks wonderful -kuch-
05:20<Flygon>It might look good, but without waypoints
05:20<Flygon>The buses will go to the wrong place
05:20<Johnnei>My looks wonderful was supposed to be sarcastic :p
05:22<Johnnei>It works though, and that's why they probably don't give priority to road waypoints :p
05:25<Flygon>Oh, that's without waypoints
05:25<Flygon>The double stops are to account for future growth and me invariably solving it with punching in more stops
05:27<Johnnei>Ah :p
05:29<Flygon>And besides
05:29<Flygon>If it WAS waypointed
05:29<Flygon>It'd have multiple names x.x
05:29<Flygon>Part of the issue (with rail also) is the inability to waypoint on anything but a flat land straight
05:29<Flygon>No diagonals, no slopes
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05:34<Johnnei>You could consider to write out a forum post requesting the feature and explaining it in full detail, maybe one of the community devs picks it up.
05:35<Flygon>I don't wanna be that whiny idiot that complains everything's wrong and that it's not perfect
05:35<Flygon>Nobody likes that guy
05:36<Johnnei>oh well xD
05:38<Flygon>I think I took Railbus too literally...
05:39*Flygon has been using railbuses to run as buses <_>
05:41<Johnnei>well... if it works xD
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06:01<Eddi|zuHause>you can just make waypoints with "go via" orders. what's the problem?
06:16<argoneus>just like make train
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08:43<kamnet>Road waypoints have been requested on the forums a few times, hence the avility to now use road stations as a waypoint. And, really, all a train waypoint is, is a station that you can't stop at (which is another requested feature).
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO, waypoints should be on tile borders, so they take up no space
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>and are freely combinable with signals and junctions
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>then they would also make enough sense for road vehicles to be coded
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10:38<argoneus>can't you make waypoints not be an actual object
10:38<argoneus>like no collision
10:38<argoneus>oh wait, right
10:38<argoneus>tile magic
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: that is pretty difficult, as you need free space to store the waypoint for any tile you might want to put it on (road, rail, station, ...)
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>also, graphics...
10:40<argoneus>graphics wise it could be just a text bubble like from signs
10:40<argoneus>but fair point
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11:14<tyteen4a03>are there any ways of improving game performance when the connection between the client and the server is slow?
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11:41<@Alberth>play with fewer people, or if you mean the pause during map download, play with a smaller map
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12:50<kamnet>good afternoon
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13:07<Eddi|zuHause>i hereby conclude that the kerbal space program demo is completely broken...
13:08<frosch123>maybe demos are like readmes
13:08<frosch123>noone expects they are used
13:08<Wolf01>I concluded it now costs more and I should have purchased it in beta
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>there's a -25% sale
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>which, as i understand it, is basically the beta price
13:10<Wolf01>still more than the beta
13:11<Wolf01>at least in euro tier 2
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14:20<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: why?
14:20<@Rubidium>(is it completely broken?)
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14:21<@Rubidium>I changed some settings and then I could see the vehicle building
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i tried the rocket building tutorial, and i can't attach a fuel tank to the pod
14:22<@Rubidium>works for me, after messing with the settings
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>then clear me up. which settings?
14:22<@Rubidium>as I couldn't see anything; I think I messed with opacity
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>i can see the pod and the fuel tank
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>they just won't attach
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>i downloaded the demo throug steam
14:24<@Rubidium>I just got some zip download
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>(on linux)
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14:34<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: The demo works for me
14:34<FLHerne>But is incredibly lacking in features compared to the current paid version, being pretty much [some early alpha] with restrictions
14:35<FLHerne>On the flipside, it#s actually _playable_ on my ancient laptop
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: "works for me" is not helpful
14:36<frosch123>it tries to send you a message
14:36<frosch123>"play openttd"
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14:39<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Can you see the green nodes on the pod and fuel tank when hovering one near the other?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: no
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>but once i did something to flip stuff around, and a green spot appeared very far away
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>i couldn't reproduce that though
14:40<FLHerne>So you bought a capsule, and a fuel tank?
14:43<FLHerne>If you bought a [not-capsule] and then tried to stick a fuel tank onto it, it wouldn't work
14:44<FLHerne>Because you can only attach things to the section of rocket that's built onto the capsule
14:45<FLHerne>Ah - if you have *two* capsules, you can only attach things to the first one
14:45<FLHerne>Maybe you bought one early and managed to hide it in a corner?
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14:57<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: i literally just clicked through the tutorial
14:57<FLHerne>I don't think I ever saw the tutorial
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14:58*FLHerne clicks through tutorial to see
14:59<FLHerne>In continued uselessness, it still Works for Me™
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15:04<FLHerne>Maybe you should ask the semi-official KSP folks in irc://
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15:30<Johnnei>How can I verify that noone is working on a bug ticket (task?) and is submitting a patch just commenting the file to the ticket?
15:31<frosch123>we don't believe in plans to work on something
15:31<frosch123>usually it is safe to assume that noone is working on a ticket
15:32<frosch123>but if you get some partial results in makes sense to post partial updates to flyspray
15:32<frosch123>i..e don't hide for two weeks while working on something
15:33<frosch123>but rather post a partial thing after you worked on something for one or two evenings
15:35<Johnnei>Alright, Thanks. Was wondering as almost all tickets seemed to either be new or closed :D
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15:51<+glx>if it's an OSX bug, almost nobody works on them ;)
15:51<andythenorth>fonso closed some
15:51<andythenorth>and michi cc
15:52*andythenorth is considering switching to OpenTTD on linux
15:52<andythenorth>OS X port is ~unusable
15:53<andythenorth>dunno if running it in a VM will work any better though
15:53<andythenorth>tried it on a Windows VM, unusable
15:54<Johnnei>I can run windows and linux (esxi based server in my house :D), not sure if I can emulate OSX on it properly though... besides that I don't have any experience with objective c xD
15:55<frosch123>i believe there are more windows bugs than osx bugs meanwhile
15:55<frosch123>though likely both are outmatched by the generic bugs :)
15:56<andythenorth>maybe I should make this mac boot native linux
15:56<andythenorth>and run OS X in a VM :P
15:56<andythenorth>using hax
15:56*andythenorth stupid ideas
15:58<Taede>does mean you have to reboot a lot
15:59<andythenorth>boot OS X
15:59<andythenorth>change 1 pixel of a sprite in photoshop
15:59<__ln__>what's unusable about the OS X port?
15:59<andythenorth>compile, reboot linux, test, reboot OS X :P
15:59<__ln__>sounds photoshopped
15:59<Taede>you can mitigate some of it with a linux vm for quick tests before rebooting into linux
16:00<andythenorth>OS X port issues: (1) ffwd doesn’t (2) cursor lags (3) game lags with [some condition of having vehicle windows open that I haven’t pinned down reliably yet]
16:00<andythenorth>(4) animation has to be off (5) switching animation on/off covers the screen in black squares
16:00<@peter1138>(1) Stop OS X being slow :S
16:01<@peter1138>(2) Stop OS X being slow
16:01<@peter1138>(3) Stop OS X being slow
16:01<@peter1138>(4) Stop OS X being slow
16:01<@peter1138>(5) Something else.
16:01<frosch123>__ln__: <- you were the one posting train photos all the time, weren't you?
16:01<andythenorth>yeah, OS X changed something
16:01<andythenorth>ffwd used to be unusable due to being stupidly fast, until some time in 2014
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16:03<__ln__>frosch123: umm, not all the time, but once in two months surely
16:03<andythenorth>it might even just be my mac
16:04<andythenorth>think it’s just me left using OS X though, nobody else afaik
16:04<@Terkhen>good night
16:04<andythenorth>bye Terkhen
16:04<__ln__>andythenorth: how much memory does it have?
16:04<andythenorth>not enough
16:05<andythenorth>it goes in swap sometimes
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16:22<+glx>maybe OSX needs a new video driver again
16:23<andythenorth>I have tried switching the various blitters
16:24<andythenorth>no meaningful effect, on subjective performance (hold down ffwd for one minute, count game time)
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it's not as funny as when they overpainted a door red and a wall white, to make it look like a door
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but i always wonder how they come up with the 5-digit numbers in "damages" that they claim
16:26<frosch123>ah, i remember that :)
16:26<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: what do you think what an hour of a train mechanic costs?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: three digits.
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>times two digit hours, makes 4 digits
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>where does the other digit come from?
16:28<frosch123>the other day a coworker told me when he made a trainee thinging at a s bahn company
16:29<frosch123>one day they had to measure how long it takes to perform a standard maintenance procedure
16:29<frosch123>he was assigned a simple task with the words to not even consider being done before the other day
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>well, surely there's bureaucratic nonsense in there.
16:31<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you also have to aacount for the time the train needs to move to the factory
16:31<frosch123>and that on that day another trains has to drive
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>but the railway has special drivers that all day long only drive trains from station to yard and back
16:36<andythenorth>if they just drive from station to yard and back
16:36<andythenorth>why not stay in the station?
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16:38<Eddi|zuHause>space restrictions, i guess :p
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20:52<Supercheese>Hmm an interesting proposal: "Crates of Goods" changed to "Pallets of Goods"
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21:05<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: for certain definitions of "interesting"
21:05<Supercheese>it wouldn't make much sense for the 19th century though before mass containerization
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21:09<garfield333>anybody awake ?
21:15<garfield333>I have difficulty finding specific newgrf, can you help ?
21:15<Supercheese>Sure which is it?
21:16<garfield333>name : indstatr.grf grdid: 4A430002 MD5SUM: D8FDBB30E75D117F156D00E4856EADB7
21:16<garfield333>I tried all from but non of them match
21:17<garfield333>it is for this gamesave
21:21<Supercheese>not on Bananas I take it
21:22<Supercheese>try here
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21:29<garfield333>ok I will try once more
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose the gamelog shows the name/version of the grf?
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>like "industrial station renewal v1.2.3"
21:35<garfield333>no, I see this message
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21:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, i don't see this image
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21:38<garfield333>u mean you cannot open a link?
21:39<Eddi|zuHause>i can open the link, but it doesn't show the image
21:39<garfield333>or this
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>only a page that says i can add captions and which other images i might like, otherwise it's blank
21:40<Supercheese>I suspect it is one of the versions available at the link earlier
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>nope, same thing
21:40<Supercheese>try that
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>that works
21:42<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... anybody find it weird that gamelog doesn't show the action14 version?
21:42<Eddi|zuHause>it must know this information to determine compatible/incompatible...
21:45<Eddi|zuHause>garfield333: if you can't find the matching version, you can enable newgrf_developer_tools, open the game without the grf, overbuild any existing station with the default station, and remove the GRF from the list
21:46<Eddi|zuHause>warning: game might misbehave or crash during this process
21:46<Eddi|zuHause>or later in the game, if you missed a station
21:54<Sylf>garfield333, which thread on tt-forums is that gamesave?
21:57<Sylf>nevermind, google found it for me
21:57<Sylf>also, have you tried the grf_.rar attached to
22:01<garfield333>I have this grf_.rar extracted, but matching indstatr.grf is not there
22:02<garfield333>I have send STD a message, maybe he can send me his copy of indstatr.grf
22:13<garfield333>I give up. bye.
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 30 00:00:55 2015