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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-05-05

---Logopened Tue May 05 00:00:01 2015
00:00<Pikkaphone>I'm surprised if opengfx airports doesn't have parameters for those costs, as am alternative to av8
00:00<Pikkaphone>opengfx+ airports
00:01<JezK>mm i think it was from opengfx+ airports
00:03<Pikkaphone>iirc high maintenance costs for airports was a misguided attempt at reducing the profitability of massive cross-map air routes
00:04<Pikkaphone>but of course all it achieved was making massive cross-map air routes the *only* viable use for aircraft...
00:05<JezK>heh
00:05<JezK>would be more useful if you could rent out your airport to competitors or something
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00:45<Supercheese>that's part of what the Infrastructure Sharing patch aims to accomplish
00:45<JezK>ooh there's one?
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00:58<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42254
00:59<JezK>awesome =)
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01:33<kamnet>I quite like Infrastructure Sharing patch. I everybody could just agree as to what happens when a company goes bankrupt, this would get a more serious push towards trunk.
01:34<JezK>hmm should give other players the option of buying them out
01:35<kamnet>It does, but what if nobody buys them out? What happens to their infrastructure, and if fees were being collected before, what happens to those fees?
01:37<JezK>hmm what would happen in the real world.. government would step in and set up someone to administrate, so found a new company to take control of it and fees go there instead?
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01:46<Eddi|zuHause>JezK: that basically amounts to "convert the property to owner 'None'"
01:47<Eddi|zuHause>(which happens to roads anyway)
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02:15<@Alberth>moin
02:15<JezK>media
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02:27<kamnet>Holla!
02:28<Johnnei>o/
02:51<JezK>really enjoying this japanese trains set :3
02:52*JezK misses riding trains in japan
02:53*kamnet has never been to Japan, nor ridden on a train.
02:53<JezK>you should try both of these things!
02:53<JezK>possibly at the same time
02:54<JezK>Except it's very depressing coming home to our slow trains
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03:00<Johnnei>Should try that maglev one in Japan (or was it China?) which set a new record for trains :p
03:01<JezK>Japan maglev set record recently
03:01<JezK>but won't be open for a long time
03:01<Johnnei>Maglev train in Japan managed to maintain 600+ km/h for 11 seconds, reaching 603 km/h at max :p
03:02<JezK>yep, that's the one
03:02<Johnnei>blame the mountains :p
03:02<JezK>Tokyo - Nagoya
03:02<JezK>then Nagoya to Osaka
03:03<Johnnei>Scheduled for opening in 2027
03:03<Johnnei>And in 2045 the expansion to Osaka should(tm) be finished
03:04<Johnnei>I wonder if there will be any health restrictions to get on that train
03:05<JezK>I took a standard train from Nagoya -> Tokyo a few months ago, took about 4 hours, quite a nice trip. Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka was pretty good too, about 2.5 hours i think
03:06<JezK>http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2bulmi/would_the_magnetic_field_created_by_a_maglev/
03:08<Johnnei>Oh that's suprisingly low .-.
03:09<JezK>indeed, impressive
03:09<JezK>"Electromagnetic force is significantly stronger than gravity (gravity is only .4379562 x 10-41 times the electromagnetic force). It doesn't take much electromagnetism to negate gravity" that's kinda cool
03:10<Johnnei>Oh sweet :D
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04:38<kamnet>I think the US will eventually get high speed train, just not soon enough. Too many issues between federal, state and local development
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05:21<@Alberth>until people stop using aircraft, nah :)
05:23<@Alberth>JezK: what electromagnetic force are you talking about, natural electromagnetism?
05:26<JezK>Alberth, just "magentic force" vs "gravity" i guess. I was quoting someone on reddit
05:27<@Alberth>what's that?
05:28<@Alberth>you can make a big magnetic field of about 7T just by putting lots of energy in it
05:28<@Alberth>sure that will be bigger than natural gravity
05:28<@Alberth>but the comparison doesn't make much sense to me
05:29<JezK>"natural gravity"?
05:29<@Alberth>yeah, the gravity around us
05:30<JezK>as in the earth's gravity?
05:30<@Alberth>yes
05:30<@Alberth>or do you want to compare against artifical gravity?
05:30<JezK>no, just gravity in general
05:30<@Alberth>which you can get in any quantity mostly, depending on how much energy you throw at it
05:31<@Alberth>what is general gravity?
05:32<@Alberth>gravity is a force coming from the body of mass called 'earth' and us (at earth)
05:33<@Alberth>gravity at the moon is different
05:33<@Alberth>so what is "gravity in general" here?
05:34<@Alberth>hmm, to be correct, other bodies of mass also decide gravity, eg sea movement is caused by the moon
05:36<@Alberth>I fail to understand what you mean by "gravity in general", and what that 10^-41 is about
05:37<@Alberth>I have no doubt you can create a force that much bigger than earth gravity, but it's not comparable I think, without mentioning the amount of power you put into it
05:38<@Alberth>if you're talking about artificial magnetism, you're comparing something costing 0 power with something that does cost power
05:41<blathijs>Gravity does cost energy, right? (potential energy)
05:44<blathijs>Alberth: I think the 10^-41 factor is about how much more molecules you need for a bit of gravity than the same bit of electromagnetic force. It's a bit weird though, since I don't think they really compare it in Newtown / molecule, there's probably a differfent (better) metric for that comparison
05:45<@Alberth>but what electromagnetic force? afaik "electromagnetic force" is not constant
05:47<@Alberth>it's a function of the amount of current you put into it
05:49<@Alberth>so I don't see how it is a useful comparison
05:50<blathijs>Alberth: Yeah, that's the weird part
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06:02<Eddi|zuHause>so let me get this straight. you're two people that have no clue what they're talking about, and complain that it doesn't make sense?
06:04<@Alberth>it seemed to make sense to J3zK and Johnn3i, so I wanted to know how
06:08<@Alberth>So far, the discussion confirms my belief the number doesn't mean anything useful
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>i won't pretend that i know what it's about, either, but i have seen actual physicists use the phrase "electromagnetism is stronger than gravity"
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06:11<Johnnei>I won't say I understand the numbers but what I get from it is that you need very little magnetic force to negate gravity to make the train levitate on the rails, as that *10^-41 makes it quite small
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>that is pure nonsense.
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>you need exactly the same magnetic force to negate gravitational force
06:13<blathijs>Indeed, you need _exactly_... Yeah, that
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>just it's much easier to generate magnetic force
06:13<blathijs>Here's the 10-41 number mentioned as "Strength in the scale of quarks": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force
06:13<Johnnei>oh .-. I guess I'm just dumb enough to try and understand it :p
06:14<Johnnei>Anyway, lunch time for me /afk
06:15<blathijs>I guess it might be comparing the gravity of 1 particle compared to the electromagnetic force of 1 unit of charge (which IIRC is usually the charge of 1 particle, too)
06:16<blathijs>So in that sense, a single particle generates a lot more electromagnetic force than gravity. However, normally, positive and negative charges average out, so there's only a little effective electromagnetic charge (until you apply some external influence to get the charges aligned).
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>the entire field of chemistry is basically about uneven distribution of charges :p
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, generally the statement is "strong force > weak force > electromagnetism > gravity"
06:19<__ln__>and also "do not underestimate the power of the Force"
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i don't remember hearing this sentence
06:28<__ln__>oh, it was only "don't underestimate the Force" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4EdtpCvF8I
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i've never seen star wars in english, anyway
06:29<__ln__>sad
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06:40<Celestar>bnah.
06:40<Celestar>stupid synology
06:41<Celestar>why can they not deliver that thing with a proper linux installation
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07:10<Johnnei>I just shouldn't try to make sense out of stuff I don't understand :p
07:10<JezK>no point trying to make sense out of stuff you already understand
07:11<Johnnei>T.T
07:11<V453000>haha
07:11<V453000>good point
07:13<JezK>but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven
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07:20<Johnnei>I'll just stick to learning about coding :p
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10:42<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: lo
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11:49<Eddi|zuHause><JezK> but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven <-- you're probably thinking of gravity waves
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11:50<@Alberth>perhaps about the question whether gravity is not a derived notion of something more fundamental? I remember reading that somewhere
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11:50<@Alberth>although technically, that doesn't make gravity non-existent :p
11:50<@Alberth>hi andy
11:51<andythenorth>lo
11:52<andythenorth>lo
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, it doesn't. and this "gravity wave" thing is some quantum mechanics stuff, it's not about whether the sun excerts a force on the earth or not
11:52<andythenorth>just invent higher standard of proof
11:52<andythenorth>then everything is unproven
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>it may have an influence on how the force is transmitted. but not on that it exists
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>and the usual disclaimer: if you think you understood quantum mechanics, you didn't understand quantum mechanics
11:54<@Alberth>I know I don't understand it :p
11:54<@Alberth>does that imply I understand it? :D
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so :p
11:56<@Alberth>bummer :p
12:03<andythenorth>:(
12:03*andythenorth thought he understood
12:04<andythenorth>oh dear
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12:12<@Terkhen>hello
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12:26<Markus>i have an ide for the openttd if it is coming a update you can select 4 versions of world but if you add one more select whit all the 4 worlds in one
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12:41<Sacro>me fail english?
12:46<@Alberth>nah, just failing to understand that IRC doesn't give an answer in 11 minutes
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>or sometimes 11 hours :p
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12:47<@Alberth>hi hi
12:49<frosch123>hola
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12:56<andythenorth>o/
12:56<@Alberth>o/
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13:09<andythenorth>cat report
13:13<TrueBrain>E_NO_SUCH_FILE
13:15<andythenorth>same result here
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>i tried, but the cat refuses to obey my order to report
13:16<andythenorth>verb-noun problem?
13:16<andythenorth>or lack of functionality?
13:17<andythenorth>or a permissions issue perhaps?
13:18<andythenorth>can you chmod 777?
13:18<andythenorth>also what does chown say about the cat object?
13:18<@Alberth>unreadable
13:18<andythenorth>is the cat malware?
13:19<@Alberth>nah, just too complicated to understand
13:19<andythenorth>does stalman understand it?
13:19<andythenorth>or torvalds?
13:19<TrueBrain>it seems crypted to me
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>must be terrorists.
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>only terrorists and drug overlords use encryption
13:21<TrueBrain>:( I will ask my boss if I work for either of the two then :D
13:21<TrueBrain>that would be a good conversation ... lolz
13:21<@Alberth>assume both, you can't be wrong then :p
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14:03<andythenorth>A MACRO PER DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY
14:03<andythenorth>oops
14:03<andythenorth>caps
14:04<@Alberth>apparently it was important :)
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14:16<Vinnie>Wolfsmaus, here they might now more
14:17<Vinnie><Wolfsmaus> with the nwe version 1.5 i have begin a new map
14:17<Vinnie><Wolfsmaus> but the ai players dont working
14:17<Vinnie><Wolfsmaus> i have dowenload all thinks
14:17<Vinnie>his question we cant help him with
14:18<@Alberth>My random guess is the "selecting AIs" part of https://wiki.openttd.org/AI_settings
14:19<@Alberth>ie like newgrfs, you not only have to download them, you also have to activate them
14:20<@Alberth>also check the number of AI competitors (first image at the page)
14:21<@Alberth>another thing is that they start a few years after you
14:21<@Alberth>and some do a lot of analysis before starting to build anything
14:21<@Alberth>so it can easily be a few years before any activity
14:22<Wolfsmaus>I want to have a AI They are play hard and the can doing all thinks (Fly, Cars, Trains, ...)
14:23<Wolfsmaus>But i dont know witch AI is indeed and witch script i need. And the Settig of them one AI player
14:23<Wolfsmaus>i have setting to start 1 day after me
14:24<Wolfsmaus>and i have play with speed 70 Years but nothing
14:24<Wolfsmaus>and when he comes then i have a big red error screen
14:25<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs gives an overview of the AIs and what they can do
14:25<Wolfsmaus>ok thanks now my first problem i clear XD
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14:27<@Alberth>I never play with AI, so I don't really know.
14:27<@Alberth>you may want to ask at the forum
14:27<@Alberth>but yeah, some are quite buggy, and they crash with a grey screen with red text
14:28<Wolfsmaus>ok but now i have 2 sits of infos. thx for https://wiki.openttd.org/AI_settings and https://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs
14:28<@Alberth>you can report such errors by taking a screen shot of that window, and posting it at the right thread
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14:28<@Alberth>but some authors have stopped developing the AI
14:29<@Alberth>I suggest you avoid AIs that crash a lot
14:29<Wolfsmaus>k thank you. i try a littel bit with the new information. i hope i can clear this and when not i take a screenshot
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14:30<Wolf01>hi hi
14:30<@Alberth>AIs are never very good compared to human players
14:30<@Alberth>if you like competition, maybe you should try playing online at a server some time
14:30<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
14:30<Wolfsmaus>yes but i have no frends to play with me this game XD
14:31<Vinnie>make friends online :D
14:31<@Alberth>you can try for example public openttdcoop server
14:31<Vinnie>reddit is nice with lots of people
14:32<Vinnie>BT pro has goals + little bit less people online
14:32<Vinnie>then there is the gamepark CZ servers that is pretty active
14:32<Vinnie>then comes openttdcoop
14:32<@Alberth>but there are lots more https://www.openttd.org/en/servers
14:32<@Alberth>I never play online, so cannot help you there
14:32<Vinnie>my order was more in active servers with nice people
14:33<Wolfsmaus>ok now i will do this
14:34<Vinnie>other servers have nice people aswell, but not the activity or settings i like
14:34<Wolfsmaus>Wolf01 goes play online
14:34<Vinnie>90% still use original acceleration
14:34<Wolf01>usually not
14:34<@Alberth>:)
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14:36<Wolfsmaus>ok thank you verry much and i will try gamepark CZ or https://www.openttd.org/en/servers with real Peopels
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14:36<@Alberth>yw
14:38<Wolfsmaus>ok bye bye and have fun
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14:38<@Alberth>you too :)
14:38<Wolfsmaus>^^
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16:39<andythenorth>hmm
16:39<andythenorth>bed
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16:59<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Wed May 06 00:00:01 2015