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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-05-09

---Logopened Sat May 09 00:00:39 2015
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03:08<andythenorth>o/
03:09<V453000>hezo
03:09<V453000>heyo
03:10<@Alberth>moin
03:12<andythenorth>random cargo output
03:12<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
03:12<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7646
03:14<@Alberth>it's too difficult to understand :)
03:18<andythenorth>it’s gone already in a branch
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04:35<@Terkhen>hello
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05:07<Wolf01>moin o/
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05:09<@Alberth>moin
05:12<frosch123>hoi
05:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27277 /trunk/src (industry_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp) (2015-05-09 11:24:19 +0200 )
05:24<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Make _displayed_industries a std::bitset.
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06:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27278 /trunk/src/saveload (3 files) (2015-05-09 12:04:50 +0200 )
06:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Handle savegames with an unexpected amount of industry-builder or NewGRF entity-mapping more gracefully.
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06:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27279 /trunk/src (industry_type.h newgrf_industries.cpp) (2015-05-09 12:21:55 +0200 )
06:22<@DorpsGek>-Feature: [NewGRF] Increase the maximum amount of industry types to 128 per NewGRF and 240 in total.
06:22<frosch123>let's see what douchebag reaches that limit :)
06:26<Wolf01>I might know somebody who'll be able to do it
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06:35-!-ben is now known as mercutio
06:36<mercutio>so i've been playing openttd in windows a bit recently, and i decided to check it out on my linux computer, and it tears really badly, and gives sluggish scrolling performance.
06:37<frosch123>experiment with the video settings
06:37<mercutio>i'm sure i've played in linux before without issues, but i've got a newer video card now.
06:37<frosch123>support_8bpp in openttd.cfg
06:37<frosch123>max-zoom in level
06:37<mercutio>i'm using radeon 7750, which is a really low end gddr card, but should be fine...
06:37<frosch123>blittter
06:38<frosch123>mercutio: it's always the drivers
06:38<mercutio>frosch123: i'm using recent mesa.. dunno if that's better or worse..
06:38<mercutio>damn linux and it's drivers.
06:38<frosch123>openttd does not use opengfl
06:38<frosch123>-f
06:38<mercutio>ahh, can it?
06:39<mercutio>i wonder if it's not putting the card in performance mode, and so struggling with scrolling?
06:39<frosch123>no, all experimental patches performed worse on the testing machines
06:39<mercutio>ahh.
06:39<frosch123>anyway, ottd has no problem running on my linux
06:39<frosch123>but still, ottd has various settings which you can try
06:39<mercutio>i should probably mention that i'm using 4k.
06:40<frosch123>you have a "really low end" graphics card that supports 4k? :p
06:40<mercutio>heh.
06:41<mercutio>it's not /extremely/ bad.
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06:41<frosch123>andythenorth: it's your birthday!
06:41<mercutio>but it's considerably slower than my r9 290 for 3d performance
06:42<mercutio>seems similar for 2d in linux though.
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06:43<Wolf01>frosch123 you scared him
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06:45<Wolf01>o/
06:46<frosch123>mercutio: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p47nxybwg <- try one of these settings combinations
06:46<andythenorth>it’s my birthday? o_O
06:46<Wolf01>yes, it is, happy birthday andy!
06:50<mercutio>8bpp won't be optimised these days will it?
06:50<frosch123>mercutio: that's what you have to try
06:50<mercutio>i tried going down to 1080p, but that didn't seem to work.
06:50<frosch123>the default is 32bpp, because 8bpp often fails on modern system
06:50<mercutio>is there a tripple buffering or something config?
06:52<mercutio>memory is at 200mb with top, and gpu memory was at liek 160mb or something total, so usnig more memory would be better than less wouldn't it?
06:52<mercutio>it's an i7-4770 so cpu shouldnt' be an issuue
06:54<frosch123>if you are only at 200mb, then you are not using 32bpp graphics
06:54<frosch123>in that case you only need to try the support8bpp setting
06:55<mercutio>ahh ok
06:56<mercutio>support8bpp is set to no hmm
06:57<mercutio>hey that's going better :)
06:58<mercutio>blitter = 8bpp-optimized
06:58<mercutio>using that
06:58<mercutio>support8bpp = system
06:59<mercutio>well most of the time at least, there's micro pauses sometimes.
06:59<mercutio>when zooming in and out
06:59<mercutio>and then moving around
07:00<mercutio>but overall it seems faster than windows actually
07:03<frosch123>you can try the same settings on windows :p
07:03<mercutio>heh
07:03<mercutio>i'm trying increasing sprite_cache_size_px now
07:04<mercutio>i think there must be some cache effects, as it seems to get faster over time a bit
07:05<andythenorth>hmm
07:05<andythenorth>FIRS has 66 industries already
07:05<andythenorth>I don’t know if 128 is enough :(
07:06<andythenorth>for example, I need to do Coal Mine (Deep Mine), Coal Mine (Opencast Mine), Coal Mine (Drift Mine)
07:06<andythenorth>also Anthracite mine
07:06<andythenorth>also Lignite
07:06<andythenorth>also Sea Coal
07:06<andythenorth>such realisms
07:06<frosch123>andythenorth: don't forget to assign them distinguishable minimap colours :)
07:06<@Alberth>mountains at sea!
07:07<andythenorth>frosch123: you have saved me writing some horrible FIRS code :)
07:07<mercutio>thanks frosch123
07:08<mercutio>windows seems to have this annoying bug with synergy, so it makes it harder to multitask. :(
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07:31<mercutio>hmm interface size onyl seems to have dual and quad, quad is too big, and dual too small
07:32<mercutio>double seems find at 1440p, but 4k it's pretty small
07:38*andythenorth builds nml
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07:45<andythenorth>eh
07:45<andythenorth>it doesn’t matter what the numeric ID for a cargo is? Except PAX, mail?
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08:13<frosch123>pretty much
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08:14<frosch123>everything uses translated cargo bits
08:14<frosch123>except original houses or so
08:15<frosch123>similar with candy/goods and fizzydrinks/food
08:22<andythenorth>anyone who does a silly
08:22<andythenorth>like expect cargo IDs to be same in all FIRS economies
08:22<andythenorth>will be punished
08:23*andythenorth wonders why newgrf specifies cargo ID at all :P
08:23<frosch123>just be careful with savegame conversion :)
08:23<frosch123>s/conversion/compatibility/
08:23<frosch123>don't change cargoids randomly :)
08:23<andythenorth>I just set min. compatible version, no? o_O
08:23<andythenorth>oh that
08:24<andythenorth>I’ll control the order in a python list, assign IDs in order, and bump version if order changes
08:24<andythenorth>wondering if I could just use the order of the CTT
08:25<frosch123>i would put all cargos in the ctt
08:25<frosch123>and then activate the 32 ids according to selected economy
08:26<frosch123>ctt position does not need to change with economy
08:28*andythenorth checks spec
08:29<andythenorth>so industry prop 08, up to 255 values?
08:29<andythenorth>but only 32 cargos active in a game
08:29<andythenorth>presumably ottd just activates 32 lowest numbered?
08:30<andythenorth>(if more than 32 are provided)
08:31<frosch123>industry prop 08 must be in range 0 to 36
08:31<frosch123>because it references an original industry
08:31<frosch123>you cannot provide more than 32 cargos
08:31<frosch123>id is in range 0 to 31
08:32<andythenorth>ok, that makes sense
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08:55*andythenorth will break all the savegames
08:58<@Alberth>including all that do not use FIRS? :o :D
09:08<andythenorth>also those
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09:10<andythenorth>bbl
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10:14<andythenorth>V453000: Simon Foster makes videos :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Fci7NWYUo&list=PLlPJ1t1GYo6Sr5B0byQ37lNKCctIAinY8&index=53
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13:51<V453000>:)
13:51<V453000>I just use after effects for that
13:55<V453000>I do much more than just sorting sprites, too ... but it is nice to see such things :)
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15:16*andythenorth FIRSing
15:24<andythenorth>do I actually need to set the cargo number for PAX to 0?
15:25<andythenorth>or will ottd sort it out?
15:37<frosch123>you do not need to define pax and mail
15:37<frosch123>just do not assign anything to those slots
15:38*andythenorth wonders why FIRS historically has them defined
15:38<andythenorth>probably....reasons
15:39<andythenorth>hmm
15:39<andythenorth>nmlc disagrees with what I’m attempting to do
15:39<frosch123>maybe for your 100% cheat :)
15:39<andythenorth>I am defining cargos multiple times
15:39<andythenorth>inside if blocks
15:39<andythenorth>and changing the numeric id
15:39<andythenorth>nmlc refuses that
15:40<andythenorth>“Duplicate item with name 'bauxite'. This item has already been assigned to id 1, cannot reassign to id 0”
15:40<frosch123>give it a different name
15:40<frosch123>the name does not matter, does it?
15:40<andythenorth>not to me
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15:40<andythenorth>it’s only there because spec needs it
15:41*andythenorth tests
15:41<frosch123>10_bauxite, 12_bauxite, ...
15:41<andythenorth>pretty much that
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15:51<andythenorth>works
15:51<andythenorth>probably
15:51<andythenorth>no regression tests :P
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16:18<andythenorth>bye
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17:23<@Terkhen>good night
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17:33<TartarusMkII>Hi everyone. I've been experimenting with roads instead of rail today, but I am wondering, can anyone show me any examples of how one way roads are meant to work? SOmeone made a highway with an overpass and a cloverleaf interchange, but I can't figure out how to make it in a way that would actually be beneficial =O
17:33<TartarusMkII>Of course, I am okay with something that just looks nice, but I'd want it to be useful as well
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19:13<Wolf01>'night
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19:24<TartarusMkII>Hey again, just want to ask again: Can anyone show me any nice SS's of cool road interchanges that are functional? I don't really understand how to use one way roads properly.
19:24<TartarusMkII>I've seen someone make a clover leaf interchange, but i can't figure out how to make one that is actually helpful in any way. lol
19:25<TartarusMkII>I want something that looks nice sure, but also actually useful
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21:03<TartarusMkII>TartarusMkII
21:03<TartarusMkII>Hey again, just want to ask again: Can anyone show me any nice SS's of cool road interchanges that are functional? I don't really understand how to use one way roads properly.
21:03<TartarusMkII>I've seen someone make a clover leaf interchange, but i can't figure out how to make one that is actually helpful in any way. lol
21:03<TartarusMkII>I want something that looks nice sure, but also actually useful
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21:11<Eddi|zuHause>clover leaf junctions aren't all that useful. they solve problems that do not actually occur in this game
21:11<TartarusMkII>right, I did not think so.
21:12<TartarusMkII>what about one-way roads?
21:12<Supercheese>roads generally never have any issues, just slap some down and vehicles are always fine
21:12<Supercheese>the only issues are when you set full load orders and vehicles back up at stations waiting
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>one way roads don't do a lot in this game either, except making overtaking easier by not having opposing traffic. there is no dividing high traffic into lanes or stuff
21:14<TartarusMkII>right, right.
21:14<TartarusMkII>I was hoping to do anything fancy with roads like I can (sort of) with rail
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>roads are far more limited in that sense
21:16<TartarusMkII>mhmm
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23:12<Flygon>I'd love rail-style roads
23:21<TartarusMkII>Well what are trams? are they vanilla? I;ve never ran across them in my HUD
23:22<TartarusMkII>https://wiki.openttd.org/Tramways hmm
23:31<Supercheese>there are indeed no trams in vanilla
23:31<Supercheese>only via grf
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23:55<kamnet>Trams are cheating
23:58<ST2>trains, trucks, buses, ships and so on... are cheating too! well, by kamnet's ideas ^^
23:59<ST2>damn, forgot the cheating planes :S
23:59<kamnet>No, just trams. They were never meant to be. Its like turning off inflation or disabling breakdowns. All cheating.
---Logclosed Sun May 10 00:00:28 2015