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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-05-16

---Logopened Sat May 16 00:00:49 2015
00:16-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd
00:34<supermop>whats pikka up to?
00:35<supermop>i think i just convince my boss how time consuming this is
00:36*Pikka is up to trucks
00:36<Pikka>although right now I have relatives visiting, so I'm off to lunch.
00:41<supermop>fun!
00:41<supermop>i wish i was in qld
00:41<supermop>too cold
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00:59<Pikka>it's fairly cool up here today too..
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01:53<supermop>oddly enough this afternoon its very warm out
01:53<supermop>well relative to the past few days
02:01<Pikka>:)
02:01<Pikka>did I imagine the addition of a variable to detect whether the vehicle is loading or unloading?
02:06<Pikka>nml has "vehicle_is_unloading" as a new variable in 1.5, doesn't look like it's listed on the nfo page. Guess I'll have to go find the revision. :)
02:07<Pikka>oh no, there it is
02:07<Pikka>how did I overlook that? :)
02:19<supermop>that is new?
02:19<supermop>haven't vehicles always had loading sprites?
02:19<supermop>or you mean loading separate from unloading
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02:19<supermop>like a dump truck not tipping to load
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02:22<andythenorth>o/
02:22<supermop>hi andy
02:23<@Alberth>moin
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02:31<Pikka>exactly like that, supermop :)
02:31<Pikka>hello andy
02:32<supermop>pineapple people forcing their way out of the train before others push their way on?
02:33<Pikka>no, exactly like a dump truck not tipping to load :P
02:33<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/zkRinFe.png
02:34<supermop>other than dump trucks, where else would this distinction show up?
02:35<Pikka>I don't know
02:35<supermop>i can't think of anything else
02:35<supermop>other than animated loading of people or boxes
02:35<supermop>hopper cars do not really change shape to unload
02:36<Supercheese>anything that loads in a different fashion than it unloads
02:36<Pikka>this dump truck though... (1 empty + (4 cargos * 4 load/unload states)) * 8 directions * 16 liveries...
02:37<Pikka>2176 sprites :)
02:37<Supercheese>perhaps self-discharging hoppers, if there are enough pixels to make the distinction
02:37<supermop>i think thaat iss only really dump trucks Supercheese
02:37<Supercheese>which is dubious
02:37<supermop>hoppers you will only see if you can animate the stuff coming out the bottom
02:37<Pikka>which you could, but you wouldn't
02:37<Supercheese>could put a ramp and march livestick towards the car loading, away from car unloading :P
02:37<Pikka>getting too "realistic" for openttd, and getting to be too much work :)
02:38<Supercheese>yeah dump trucks are by far the largest use case
02:38<supermop>for tankers you could have a hose connected to top for loading and bottom for unloading assuming your station has the other end of the hose on it
02:38<supermop>side tip hoppers?
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02:39<Pikka>side tip is just a flavour of dump truck
02:39<supermop>cement trucks rotating opposite direction to unload
02:39<supermop>garbage trucks
02:40<Supercheese>no one wants to animate the rotating anyhow
02:40<Supercheese>and I don't think cement trucks even exist
02:40<Supercheese>could render some but meh
02:40<supermop>i'd sort of assumed you'd make them
02:41<Supercheese>Maybe
02:41<Supercheese>worth a look
02:41<supermop>idk what they would be used for in game
02:41<Pikka>they're not really transporty enough for me. maybe as a town car? :)
02:41<supermop>bdmt i guess
02:41<Supercheese>eyecandy RV for sure
02:41<Supercheese>already have two garbage trucks
02:41<andythenorth>bonjour Pikka
02:42<Pikka>guten tag
02:42<supermop>a cement truck showing up to pour concrete into the hardware store twice a month for years on ed may be a bit odd....
02:42<andythenorth>silly game
02:43<andythenorth>Pikka have you seen what V453000 is doing with cubes? o_O
02:43<Pikka>is he eating them?
02:43<andythenorth>in bulk
02:43<Pikka>whence?
02:43<andythenorth>V453000 where is pictures?
02:45<Pikka>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/voxelzzzzz.png these ones?
02:46<supermop>oooh
02:46<andythenorth>yes those ones :)
02:46<andythenorth>every pixel a cube
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02:48<Pikka>seems a bit of a tame concept for V :P
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02:50<@Alberth>:D
02:56<V453000>NOT FOR LONG :P
02:57<V453000>mayhem possible
03:00<Pikka>huzzah!
03:15<Pikka>wot
03:15<andythenorth>?
03:15<Pikka>grf compiles fine, openttd gives unexpected sprite error :/
03:16<Pikka>in the middle of a block of (the right number) of sprites...
03:16<andythenorth>how rude
03:16<Pikka>tres
03:16<andythenorth>also, pikka you haz truck sprites?
03:16<Pikka>si
03:17<Pikka>just finished the last 3rd generation (50sish) truck.
03:17<Pikka>will do a blog post some time
03:17<Pikka>ie, when I can get the grf to work
03:17<andythenorth>he
03:19<@peter1138>Cubicals
03:20<andythenorth>http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=556164
03:20<andythenorth>I don’t like lime green, makes me feel a bit sick, but bold colour scheme
03:21<andythenorth>nice suspension too
03:21<Pikka>yes
03:21*Pikka doesn't understand
03:22<Pikka>I have a block of 512 sprites, openttd is complaining about unexpected sprite on the 510th. I can't see any difference between this block of 512 sprites and the one immediately preceding it...
03:22<andythenorth>is paste?
03:22<Pikka>apart from they have different sprite names of course...
03:23<Pikka>is paste where?
03:23<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org
03:23<Pikka>I suppose I could try replacing the block that breaks with a copy of the block that doesn't break, and then if it still breaks I can claim it's not my fault. :)
03:24<andythenorth>that is how an libxml bug was found yesterday :P
03:25<andythenorth>found a libxml extension that literally can’t count
03:25<Pikka>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p626ze0d3 that's the block, fwiw :)
03:26<Pikka>* on 4578
03:27<Pikka>I counted both "8bpp.png"s and "lacey_octopod"s, there's definitely the right number of sprites... I'll try replacing the whole block.
03:28<@Alberth>swap 2 lines
03:29<Pikka>or that :)
03:29<@peter1138>First block is 64, the rest are 16?
03:31<Pikka>huh, replaced the block and it works.
03:33<@peter1138>Why is the first one 64?
03:34<Pikka>are you questioning 01 01 00 \b16 \b64 08, peter1138? it's an extended format action 1.
03:35<Pikka>64 sets of 8 (512 sprites), but starting at set 10 (d16) instead of set 0, and retaining the first 16 sprite sets from the previous action 1.
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03:36<Pikka>oh
03:36<Pikka>you mean
03:36<@peter1138>But you have 16 * 8, not 64 * 8
03:36<Pikka>you mean you spotted that second action 1 that isn't supposed to be there, and is in fact the problem? thanks :D
03:37<@peter1138>In that case, there's the 3rd and 4th too.
03:37<Pikka>yep
03:37<Pikka>whoops :)
03:45<Pikka>all good now, thanks peter1138
03:57<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/wR6IZG5.jpg
03:59<@Alberth>spiffy
04:06<andythenorth>ho
04:06<andythenorth>I can stop working on Road Hog :D
04:07<andythenorth>look at all those trucks
04:09<Pikka>woooooo
04:09<Pikka>I just changed company colour and crashed openttd!
04:09<Pikka>although I had reloaded grfs a few times, so...
04:13-!-roidal [~roland@194-152-173-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
04:28<@peter1138>Well
04:32<andythenorth>exactly
04:37<Pikka>indeed
04:38<__ln__>@seen dominik81
04:38<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen dominik81.
04:40<andythenorth>one day
04:40<andythenorth>someone will figure out how to regression-test newgrfs
04:43<__ln__>but today is not that day
04:43<andythenorth>I would lay money on it
04:43<andythenorth>€20
04:43<andythenorth>today will not be that day
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05:01<andythenorth>tests are win when refactoring
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05:12<Pikka>OTVI seems exceptionally good at creating gridlock
05:12<Pikka>places a drivethrough stop just off a main road or in the middle of a town and sends a hundred vehicles with full load orders to it.
05:13<andythenorth>AI is our major existential threat
05:13<andythenorth>apparently
05:15<Pikka>apparently
05:15<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/dFglwAD.jpg
05:15<Pikka>OTVI is mauve, sucks to be white or green.
05:17<andythenorth>you need more diesel smoke
05:17<Pikka>I do
05:17<andythenorth>your trucks are twin-stack
05:18<Pikka>only the petersons, in this generation. :P
05:18<Pikka>there is a lot of diesel smoke, I wonder if it affects performance?
05:18<Pikka>also, how much of a pain is the callback to reposition smoke?
05:20-!-supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:23<Pikka>(that was not a rhetorical question, I haven't tried it yet)
05:29<andythenorth>easy peasy
05:29<andythenorth>even andythenorth can do it
05:29*andythenorth is nml-tastic mind
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06:14<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-sqc43OvOE
06:14<andythenorth>lego maglev
06:16<Pikka>fancy
06:34<andythenorth>cats are quiet
06:34<andythenorth>where is discussion today?
06:34<Pikka>hmm
06:34<andythenorth>about fine features and valued opinions
06:34<andythenorth>such as Underground Building
06:35<andythenorth>and DayLength
06:35<Pikka>I'm looking at leyland PD3s with front entrances, is that a good feature?
06:35<andythenorth>I can only read that in a seedy way
06:35<andythenorth>sorry
06:35<andythenorth>for lowering the tone
06:35<Pikka>you filthy swine you
06:38<@peter1138>Fallout New Vegas, eh?
06:38<Pikka>who can say?
07:00*andythenorth does FIRS-ing
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08:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27285 /trunk/src (genworld_gui.cpp settings.cpp) (2015-05-16 14:01:19 +0200 )
08:01<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use LG_ORIGINAL instead of a magic 0 to indicate the original landscape generator.
08:04-!-supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
08:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27286 /trunk/src (script/api/script_window.hpp window_type.h) (2015-05-16 14:08:06 +0200 )
08:08<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish(r27140): Also fix typo in the documentation.
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08:11<M3Henry>G'day
08:12<@Alberth>hi hi
08:12<Pikka>ding dong
08:12<M3Henry>I'm having a go at adding a irrKlang driver to the game
08:13<M3Henry>Though the game doesn't seem to recognise the additional driver
08:19<M3Henry>Ah, derp, didn't add it to source.list
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>i was about to say you probably forgot something trivial
08:20<M3Henry>It's been a while >.<
08:28<supermop>just went to a QLD beer event
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>my condolences
08:33<supermop>http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/1/8/im/a18343.jpg
08:34<supermop>any guesses as to how tall that dark granite bit is?
08:34<supermop>only clue i have is that the whole building is mentioned as being 132 ft tall in an article from the 30s
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>on the right you see a person.
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>a person is about 1,80m
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably a mannekin
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>in the window
08:36<supermop>yeah so i was assuming that first ledge was about 6 feet, which should make the whole thing 44 feet, but counting widows on other photos gives me something more like 32
08:36<supermop>hmm if that is a mannwequin it looks tall compared to the car
08:37<supermop>mannequin
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, i don't think there's much of a discrepancy
08:40<supermop>ok
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>say the mannequin is 1,80, and fits 5 times in the building, that would make it 9m, which is about 30ft
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>so that 32ft figure seems more accurate than the 44ft figure
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>but how accurate do you really need it to be?
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08:46<supermop>roughly 30 or roughly 40 is fine
08:46<supermop>using feet bc that's what i found records for, then going to convert to mm
08:47<Pikka>good night children
08:47-!-Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:47<supermop>its just going to be an abstract mass dark on bottom and light on top to be across the street from a shop, to bounce sunlight into the front window
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, i've said everything i have to say about this. make your own conclusion.
09:06-!-krinn [~krinn@24.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
09:06<krinn>hi guys
09:07<krinn>was about to open a bug for http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSTileList__IndustryAccepting.html but i think it may be too verbose for a bug and better handle here
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: people with knowledge in that area might not be here
09:07<krinn>The radius explains mislead everyone and gave a bad (smallest) return tiles
09:08<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, that's just a description of radius problem
09:08<krinn>the function itself isn't buggy
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>so what is you problem?
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>+r
09:09<krinn>that hinting "radius" is "The radius of the station you will be using." mislead everyone as now you will try to gave it the radius of the station type you will use
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>and what's your problem?
09:10<krinn>you will get shorter tiles than what you should get
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't understand your problem.
09:12<krinn>lol i know that's why i didn't handle that in flyspray ;)
09:12<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, if you have a 10 size rail station, people will get mislead and feed it with radius = radius of a rail station
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09:13<krinn>and they will get answer of "list of tiles the industry accept for a station of 4 radius and 1 size big" only
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>can you give an example piece of code, describe what it does, and what you expected it to do instead?
09:14<krinn>GSTileList_IndustryAccepting(industry_id, 100) <- get list of tiles the industry will accept
09:14<krinn>with the 100 so you will get all for sure
09:14<krinn>while people are hint to GSTileList_IndustryAccepting(industry_id, AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius(station they will use))
09:15<krinn>of course if you build a rail station of size 1, you are fine, but it's not really something anyone would do no?
09:16<krinn>the radius shouldn't hint to use the station radius you will use, so people hint the function with a bigger radius that depend on the radius of their station and its size
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: the way i undertand this function is that you call IndustryAccepting(radius_of_station), and make sure that the intersection between the result and your MxN station you want to build is not empty
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09:17<krinn>yeah Eddi|zuHause but this will only get you a shorter list of tiles, only the one for the intersection of your station if its size is 1
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: in this case, AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius is the correct value to use
09:17<krinn>no because your station will have a bigger coverage, that depend on its size
09:18<krinn>a 10 station size have a bigger radius than a 1 size station
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but that is only if the industry is larger than the area of the 1x1 station
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09:19<krinn>no, it is when your station is coverage is bigger than the coverage of that station type with a 1 size
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: like an extreme example, an industry of 20x1, and only the end pieces accept 4/8 cargo. then you need a station that covers both end pieces
09:20<krinn>hmm, i know it would difficult to explain it :)
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but then, giving a larger radius will result in tiles that won't accept the cargo in your result
09:20<krinn>yes exactly! even if the station is outside the coverage itself, some part of it might still be within because of its size
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>no
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>if all the pieces of station are outside the coverage, no part of the station is inside the coverage.
09:21<krinn>i didn't say "all", i say some
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but who cares about that?
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09:22<Eddi|zuHause>you need to make sure that ONE piece of the station is inside this area returned by that function
09:22<krinn>yes
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>no matter how big the station is
09:22<krinn>and by hinting "use the station coverage" you are limiting the result
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>no.
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>(unless you have an extreme example like above)
09:23<krinn>ok say we use a simple 1 size radius coverage ok?
09:24<krinn>so the function will return what tiles are good to use next to 1 tile radius right?
09:25<krinn>now if your station still have 1 tile radius, but your station is 5 size big, your coverage radius is farer than just 1 tile
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but at least one of those 5 tiles must be within 1 tile of the industry
09:25<krinn>yes right
09:26<krinn>but if you ask the function giving it radius = 10, you will get all tiles where you could build your station of 5 size within them
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>thus intersection of (industry area) and (station area) must contain at least this one tile
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: no, you get a lot of invalid tiles
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: where if you placed your station there, it won't accept the cargo
09:27<krinn>no, it depend how your station direction
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: i think you confuse "one piece of the station must be in the area" with "all pieces of the station must be in the area"
09:29<krinn>that's it, the radius description mislead people to think it is not possible to build one with at least one piece within it
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't follow your argument.
09:30<krinn>as you will only get the tiles that would be valid to build all your station within it
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>i think the misunderstanding is in your use of the function. not in its documentation
09:33<krinn>that's the radius description that is misleading
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't see how you would convince anyone even if you wrote this up as a bug report
09:34<krinn>if you use a radius of 20: you will get all tiles within a 20 radius that the industry is accepting right?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>no. if you want to build a 20x1 station, a radius of 20 will give you 90% invalid results
09:35<krinn>let's make it simple, i want build a 5 size station, so i will get all tiles within that 20 tiles radius where i could build a 5 size station, ok?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>not ok.
09:36<krinn>damnit!
09:37<krinn>what do you think you will get then?
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think we will get to an agreement in this discussion format
09:39<krinn>just look how it work with openttd then as a real example
09:39-!-supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>let's consider a one-dimensional world
09:39<@Alberth>that would be good by definition :)
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>_____III_____
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>I is the industry, _ is free land
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>assume you have a station radius of 2
09:40<krinn>ok
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>then any of __SS_III_____, ___SSIII_____, _____IIISS___, _____III_SS__ will be a valid station placement
09:41<krinn>ah yes it's that!
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>now you call your function with radius 2
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>this will result in the following area: ___xxIIIxx___
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>so any station placement where at least one S overlaps with an x, will be valid
09:42<krinn>ah thank you !!! you see the problem? you are now not seeing _____III_SS__ as a valid result
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it is. because i said AT LEAST ONE S
09:43<krinn>because for everyone the upper right tile is where to put the station
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>but that is a misconception on your part. it has nothing to do with radius
09:44<krinn>that misconception is because of the description of radius, that hint people to use the radius of the station type
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>if you were to set the radius at 3, you would get _SS__III_____ as a valid result, which will not accept the cargo
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: so your misconception is that for station placement, you need to consider more than the north corner
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>changing the radius is not the correct solution
09:46<krinn>no, because if the station is turn toward -- it will be within it
09:46<krinn>train station have bigger catchment area on depth of station than size of station ;)
09:46<@Alberth>the documentation says nothing about a station
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: you need to create a TileArea which will cover your MxN station, and compare that with the result of this function
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: or you need to take the result of this function, and extend it by M or N on ONE side only
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>extending it on the other side, which changing the radius would do, is invalid
09:48<krinn>yep
09:49<krinn>it's easy to get, you need a bigger radius than your station type, you need the radius of the station type + its size
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: in either case, using the coverage radius of a 1x1 station is the correct argument to this function, so the documentation is correct
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: again, no. using radius+size gives you incorrect results
09:50<krinn>not really, because it's not "list of tiles that acccept cargo for the given industry anymore", but only the tiles within that radius
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: of course you are free to use the function in any way you wish, but don't blame it on the documentation.
09:52<krinn>what mislead people is not taking the real station size
09:52<krinn>the function should answer to width, height and radius, while it only use radius and HINT that this radius should be the one of the station type you are going to build
09:53<TrueBrain>if only we had non-square stations ...
09:53<TrueBrain>wait! WE DO! \o/ :D
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could easily make a wrapper function that takes length and width of the potential station...
09:54<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i have no real problem with the function myself, i'm trying to help other figuring out its limitation and usage
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>and returns the potential northern tiles of a valid station
09:55<krinn>with a radius of 4, people get IIIxxxx while a station of size 4 people could use IIIxxxSSSS
09:56<TrueBrain>Eddi: would only work under the assumption you will be making a rectangle-shaped station ;)
09:56<krinn>and hinting them to use the radius of station only mislead them to not see IIIxxxx!!!!!!!!!! tiles
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: yes. but if you consider non-rectangular stations, it will become just crazy
09:57<TrueBrain>and that is why this function does what it does :)
09:57<TrueBrain>the only confusion here seems to be what acceptance really is :)
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: that may be true, but giving a radius larger than 4 will allow a SSSSxxxxIII station, which will not accept the cargo
09:57<TrueBrain>it has nothing to do with stations; it has everything to do with industries :)
09:59<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, yes but it's up to the function to not return SSSSxxxxIII while still return IIIxxxxSSSSS...
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: and i said you can easily write such a function
10:00<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i know, i did already, i'm not trying to fix something for myself
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but just increasing the radius is not the correct solution
10:00<krinn>you can get the real answer by AITile.GetCargoAcceptance already
10:01<krinn>because this one use width, height and radius to answer
10:02<krinn>the other function mislead people by hinting them about the radius of the station without them to consider also its size
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: there is no misleading documentation
10:06<krinn>if you think so, for me i think the doc should tell people to use a radius depending on the station radius and its size
10:07<@Alberth>it should perhaps explain how to use the function
10:07<TrueBrain>why would the function IndustryAccepting care about stations?
10:08<TrueBrain>Alberth: oeh, examples :D
10:08<@Alberth>could be done at the wiki too
10:09<krinn>i think, it may better explain that "the radius of the station you will be using" is not "the radius of the station type you will use"
10:11<TrueBrain>or it should read s/radius/acceptance radius/ ;)
10:11<TrueBrain>I agree radius is a bit ambigous here :D
10:12<krinn>I think everyone reading it will think radius should be AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius
10:12<TrueBrain>I think only people do that if they do not understand acceptance radius
10:12<TrueBrain>which will bring you into trouble sooner or later ;)
10:12<TrueBrain>I also think stating "everyone" is overstating any statement for everyone :D
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but i tried to explain you, that is in pretty much every case the correct value to use
10:13<krinn>i think if you look at any AI people use it, then validate it with AITile.GetCargoAcceptance
10:13<krinn>so using a bigger area and validate it next with AITile... will only lead to correct answer
10:14<krinn>but if you use radius = stationtype_radius, the validate with AITile will never fail and is just unneed :)
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, why is that a problem?
10:16<krinn>even admiralAI fail on it :)
10:16<krinn> local platform_length = this._platform_length;
10:16<krinn> /* No useable station yet for this industry, so build a new one. */
10:16<krinn> local tile_list;
10:16<krinn> if (producing) tile_list = AITileList_IndustryProducing(ind, AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN));
10:16<krinn> else tile_list = AITileList_IndustryAccepting(ind, AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN));
10:17<TrueBrain>that is how the function should be used
10:17<krinn>you can see admiral AI will built a rail station with a size == plaform_length
10:17<krinn>but admiralai will only seek possible position for that station within AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN)
10:18<krinn>mislead too in thinking that's the way to seek possible place
10:18<TrueBrain>so set the coverage radius to 1, and default the AI \o/
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: ok. it fails to consider non-northern tiles. but that is not the fault of this function
10:19<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i know, i'm not accusing the function of malfunction
10:19<krinn>just that the doc is kinda misleading on its usage
10:19<TrueBrain>the doc doesnt suggest any usage, does it?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: the fix for this is easy. extend the area from this function by width and length in either X or Y direction
10:19<TrueBrain>I do agree the word 'radius' is as ambigious as it can get :P
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but changing the radius will result in invalid extensions in -X and -Y directions
10:20<krinn>yes TrueBrain that should be more clear the radius is to consider the station size also and not the station type radius
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>plus you get in trouble with non-square stations
10:20<TrueBrain>krinn: no, there you are wrong in your assumption :D
10:20<@Alberth>krinn: size is 1 dimension, that cannot be right
10:20<TrueBrain>the function is meant to find the tiles on which if any station part exists, gives you cargo acceptance
10:20<TrueBrain>that is all
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: people are not using the function to its full potential. but that is not the fault of the documentation
10:21<TrueBrain>the mindfuck here is that you cannot assume stations are rectangle :)
10:21<krinn>yeah TrueBrain but everyone will not use it like that, everyone will use it thinking it answer to "upper right tile" only
10:21<@Alberth>krinn: so everyone is wrong :p
10:21<krinn>kinda yes Alberth :)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: still, the fault is not in the description of "radius"
10:21<TrueBrain>krinn: again, please stop with "everyone"; it is overstating sillyness :)
10:22<krinn>TrueBrain, lol yes
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10:22<TrueBrain>but if people think that, they do not grasp what the acceptance stuff is in OpenTTD; that should be clear on a wiki page :)
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: and if you start "teaching" this radius bullshit, you make the situation worse, not better
10:22<@Alberth>krinn: people don't read what the documentation says, they read what they think it does.
10:23<TrueBrain>but I fully agree that "radius" should be replaced with "coverage radius" or something, not suggesting the radius of the station itself :)
10:23<andythenorth>radius is bonkers
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: which is the exact opposite of what krinn wants :p
10:23<krinn>that's because when "some" read "radius the station will be using", "some" read it as "GetCoverageRadius" answer
10:23*andythenorth is baffled by it
10:23<@Alberth>TrueBrain: it says "station type" not "station"
10:23<TrueBrain>Eddi: I know, but what he wants results in broken functionality :)
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>i've been trying to say that for an hour now
10:24<@Alberth>And I am wrong :P krinn QED my remark :)
10:24<TrueBrain>was abot to say .. it says station here :D
10:24<TrueBrain>hihi
10:24<TrueBrain>so either change would clear it up already
10:24<TrueBrain>krinn: it should be used with GetCoverageRadius function
10:25<krinn>guys, i think you can check any AI to see they will always feed it with the station coverage radius instead of the station real coverage radius
10:25<TrueBrain>and they would be correct :D
10:25<krinn>that should be proof "some" are mislead :)
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: yes. that is The Right Way (tm)
10:25<TrueBrain>it is what you do with the result, that matters :)
10:25<TrueBrain>you think it gives a result-set to be used as nothern tile to build on; it does not
10:26<TrueBrain>it returns you the tiles on which, if you would build any station part there, would give you coverage
10:26<TrueBrain>after that, it is your job to do the math
10:26<krinn>exact TrueBrain but i think "some" (grrr i want say everyone) do that
10:26<TrueBrain>as stations dont have to be rectangle, it has no other option
10:26<TrueBrain>that would be their mistake :) The documentation doesnt suggest this behaviour
10:26<TrueBrain>again, it is their lack of understand acceptance radius
10:26<TrueBrain>which might be a problem on its own
10:26<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/picxbfxyv ?
10:27<TrueBrain>and as such might require some good explanation on the wiki :)
10:27<TrueBrain>Alberth: less ambigious to me at least
10:27<krinn>it's worst imo :)
10:28<@Alberth>krinn: so how to say what the function does then?
10:28<TrueBrain>remember, it doesnt do what you want it to do ;)
10:29<krinn>hmmm, the radius your station will be within
10:29<TrueBrain>basically, for every tile on that list, do -X and -Y of the station size you want to build
10:29<krinn>no, that's bad too, maybe: the radius your station coverage should touch
10:29<TrueBrain>and you have your list ;)
10:30<TrueBrain>Alberth: possibly add another comment: a station part build on any of the tiles resulting from this function will give you coverage
10:30<TrueBrain>or something?
10:31<krinn>TrueBrain, yes something like that would be better, maybe not changing the description but add that
10:31<TrueBrain>well, the current radius description is ambigious, and could use love ;)
10:32-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B3EB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
10:32<krinn>i really think many ai authors may use it "badly" because of the blur, even if it might not be because of the description itself i admit
10:32<TrueBrain>acceptance coverage is a pita ;)
10:32<TrueBrain>even as player
10:33<TrueBrain>btw, as a FYI, admiralAI does use it correctly
10:33<TrueBrain>following from after your copy/paste
10:33<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pcwlwt2kd
10:33<TrueBrain>it uses these tiles to go -1, -platform_length from it
10:33<TrueBrain>to test if a station can be build
10:34<@Alberth>did s/coverage/acceptance/ in the second function
10:34<TrueBrain>Alberth: I hoped you would reword my hard to read english a bit :D
10:34<krinn>Alberth, looks perfect, people may stop think only about uppernorth
10:34<TrueBrain>krinn: line 554 and onwards in trainmanager.nut
10:35<TrueBrain>might give you some suggestions how to use it
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: "built"
10:35<krinn>TrueBrain, ah yes, sorry, didn't look futher, but not ai author are TrueBrain :)
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>but it should be reworded a bit, it sounds like terrible english :p
10:35<TrueBrain>Eddi: that is what I just said! :P
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes
10:36<@Alberth>like this TB? thanks Eddi https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgzgmkxu2
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>i just wanted to express my agreement to this :p
10:36<TrueBrain>two thumbs up
10:36<TrueBrain>Eddi: :D:D :)
10:36<TrueBrain>(and yes, my tab-autocomplete is broken :P)
10:37<TrueBrain>krinn: I just wanted to clarify the "everyone" part being wrong :P *troll happily now* :D
10:37<krinn>you know what, i'm really happy i didn't open a bug for that, i was sure it would be nightmare, and i'm a seer then :)
10:37<TrueBrain>without joking, the description was poor :)
10:37<TrueBrain>and I can say that, as I am afraid I wrote it :P
10:37<krinn>:D
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>it was poor, but not in the way you expected it to be poor
10:38<TrueBrain>@commit 15027
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by truebrain :: r15027 /trunk (309 files in 30 dirs) (2009-01-12 18:11:45 +0100 )
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see.
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: NoAI is an API (a framework) to build your own AIs in. See:
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/AI:Main_Page
10:38<TrueBrain>:(
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: With many thanks to:
10:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
10:38<krinn>i think about it myself because the function test only radius > 0 and not if radius would be some radius taken by a station type...
10:38-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.162.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that is only the merge commit :p
10:39<TrueBrain>fair enough
10:39<TrueBrain>so I can still blame others \o/
10:39<TrueBrain>I am very good at that
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>as long as nobody digs out the old branch :p
10:39<TrueBrain>omg, we used a subversion branch for it didnt we?
10:39<TrueBrain>damn, that really is years ago
10:39<TrueBrain>well, 6
10:39<TrueBrain>damn
10:39<TrueBrain>6?!
10:39<TrueBrain>crap, fuck me
10:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27287 trunk/src/script/api/script_tilelist.hpp (2015-05-16 16:40:45 +0200 )
10:40<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Clarify radius and semantics of the industry producing/accepting tile functions.
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>it was probably an svn branch back then... nowadays it would be a separate hg or git repo
10:40<TrueBrain>svn to hg converts are slowwwww
10:41<TrueBrain>\o/
10:41<krinn>(that was my how to waste everyone life an hour on two words)
10:41<@Alberth>less than 6 years slow, I hope :p
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10:43<krinn>thanks guys (for the patience also)
10:43<TrueBrain>mostly I hope it is a bit more clear for you now, how you should use the function etc :)
10:44<krinn>it was clear for me already, but i was thinking about others
10:44<TrueBrain>I like how AdmiralAI tests for 1xN and Nx1 stations; hadnt thought about that before
10:44<TrueBrain>even changing the radius for rectangle stations would be wrong .. hmm .. funny
10:44<TrueBrain>E_GAME_TOO_COMPLEX
10:46<krinn>:D overly complex
10:46<@Alberth>that's what happens with random people adding random things to a program :)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i'm assuming AdmiralAI actually tests for 2xN and Nx2 stations
10:47<TrueBrain>Eddi: given the -1, yes
10:47<TrueBrain>good point :D
10:48<krinn>do you guy upto another issue (of the same kind)?
10:48<TrueBrain>another radius -> coverage radius? :P
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>another hour of us telling you that the issue is in a completely different place?
10:51<krinn>lol yes Eddi|zuHause
10:51<krinn>the exclusive rights on town is too unfair to be use by ai
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>there should be a setting to disable those completely...
10:52<krinn>they are robots and can buys all they could, making the game stuck to everyone then
10:52<krinn>as it not only block town, but industry depending on towns
10:52<krinn>buy right of paris, and paris coalmine is block...
10:54<andythenorth>skynet
10:54<TrueBrain>OMG! SKYNET AGAIN
10:54<TrueBrain>*tinfoilhat*
10:54<andythenorth>can I borrow yours when you’re done?
10:54<TrueBrain>*gives andy his tinfoilhat*
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>NSA probably runs a copy of skynet in some data center
10:55<krinn>some ai offer ability to disable buying rights, but it should be an option to human player to stop ai doing that imo
10:55<TrueBrain>1. create a patch
10:55<TrueBrain>2. submit
10:55<TrueBrain>3. ???
10:55<TrueBrain>4. profit
10:55<TrueBrain>:D
10:56<krinn>i lack underpants to do that :D
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>TMI
10:59<krinn>ok as duckduckgo answer three mile island to TMI i don't think i get it right Eddi|zuHause
10:59<TrueBrain>try it left?
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TMI <-- first nonsponsored google result for me...
11:01<krinn>i'm not really into nuclear catastroph, so i suppose i should be glad duckduckgo really isn't analyzing my queries :)
11:03<krinn>oh actually i got the same link Eddi|zuHause just the short desc was giving three mile island first
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>there are some really "interesting" nuclear catastrophes...
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>like in russia, a chemical explosion in a nuclear waste plant blew out a long trail of radioactive dust through sibiria
11:06<krinn>well, last time it heard something like that, it was stopped at french frontier for our government ;)
11:13<andythenorth>meh, I’ll have to duplicate every industry’s production cb switches per economy
11:14<andythenorth>just to handle varying number of output cargos
11:14<andythenorth>maybe I could stuff a register
11:14*andythenorth is scared to touch FIRS production code
11:15<andythenorth>it’s complicated, and hard to test
11:15<andythenorth>and I didn’t write it
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>there is probably a simpler solution than what you are currently attempting
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11:26<krinn>anyone using code::block?
11:28<@Alberth>perhaps ask what you really want to know? ;)
11:28<@Alberth>ie a "yes" answer isn't that interesting, and nobody can say "no"
11:29<krinn>there's a find reference for a function, was wondering if there is some kind of "find function not reference", finding dead code then
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "I could probably work around it by forcing Passengers to start of the list (probably Mail too)." <-- there used to be hardcoded behaviours for passengers, mail and goods. not sure what happened to them
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11:32<@Alberth>krinn: but you'd want that for all functions, I guess
11:33<krinn>Alberth, yes
11:33<@Alberth>I once wrote a simple script that takes all function-like identifiers, and prints how many uses there are
11:33<krinn>still have hands on it?
11:33<@Alberth>you're doing code analysis rather than code editing at that point :)
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11:34<krinn>lol yes, trying to slim the beast
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: i'm pretty certain there exist tools to do this
11:35<krinn>would had been a good one in code:blocks as it already have ability to search who use them
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: but "find a function that is never used" is tricky, because a function might be used by other programs outside of your own code, if it is exported as a symbol
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>so if you're writing a library, you would get loads of false positives
11:36<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i'm not asking code:blocks to delete them, just point out what are the ones never used "here", upto me to know if i use them elsewhere
11:37<krinn>and as code::block also analyze the ones use in library, it might even answer less false positives
11:37<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/testfuncnames I do, actually, but it's heavily unix-based
11:37<krinn>(as long as the lib is within the project)
11:37<@Alberth>and not just ./testfuncnames :)
11:38<krinn>Alberth, perfect, i like sh
11:38<@Alberth>but it's not so difficult, find eg "name(", collect all names, and count usage of each
11:39<@Alberth>it's heavily tailored to openttd
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11:39<@Alberth>the collection of lines to delete is probably wrong for you
11:42<krinn>got a script to build the funcnames file?
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11:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: w.r.t production, https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_secondary.pypnml
11:44<andythenorth>the ‘problem’ is that num of output cargos is currently a compile-time constant
11:44<andythenorth>there are various possibilities to solve that
11:45<@Alberth>krinn: nope, but it's one for-loop, by the looks of it
11:45<andythenorth>I don’t like any of them
11:45<krinn>might catch them easy with :: search thx Alberth
11:48<@Alberth>andy, you can't have cases that you don't use with some industries?
11:49<andythenorth>? o_O
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the easiest would be replacing THIS_NUM_OUTPUT_CARGO with a LOAD_PERM(var_num_output_cargo) and set this value on construction
11:51<luaduck>hey folks
11:51<andythenorth>‘on construction’ is a bit dubious
11:51<andythenorth>although there are cbs that can be abused for that
11:51<luaduck>our server suffered another segfault last night in Z22UpdateVhicleTimetable, which sounds awfully similar to our last crash
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>other option is to use parameters, instead of permanent storage
11:51<luaduck>worth raising a bug for?
11:52<andythenorth>probably will insert a switch, read the economy parameter, user STORE_TEMP there
11:52<andythenorth>use *
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>and third option is to use temporary storage, with an additional switch that just reads the economy parameter, and pushes the value for the appropriate industry
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>that switch needs to know all industries, though
11:53<andythenorth>that’s ok
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>or all economies
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>so you have one switch per economy that knows all industries, or one switch per industry that knows all economies
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>the latter might be cleaner
11:54<andythenorth>the latter
11:54<andythenorth>can be added to the current implementation trivially
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>you need object oriented nml!
12:01*andythenorth ponders that
12:02<andythenorth>I have object oriented nml :P
12:03<andythenorth>just via layers of complication :|
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12:32<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industry.py
12:32<andythenorth>complication ^ :P
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see anything in this pile of code :p
12:40<andythenorth>industry.py is heading towards god-module
12:40<andythenorth>I’ve been wondering about splitting it up
12:40<andythenorth>but it’s so convenient to search it all in one file :P
12:44<andythenorth>eh it’s less than 1k lines, not that bad :P
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>that's not quite the point :p
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13:15<andythenorth>hmm
13:16<andythenorth>I can’t STORE_TEMP the number of output cargos in a single switch
13:16<andythenorth>I need one switch per economy
13:16<andythenorth>lame
13:17<@Alberth>don't make 60 economies :)
13:18<andythenorth>wondering if I don’t understand nml
13:18<andythenorth>well I know the answer to that
13:18<andythenorth>I don’t understand nml
13:18<@Alberth>me neither :)
13:19<andythenorth>it’s a bit magical tbh
13:19<@Alberth>lots of it is newgrf magic, I think
13:19<andythenorth>nfo is unmagical
13:19<andythenorth>no magic at all
13:19<andythenorth>bitshifting and such doesn’t count as magic, just tedious
13:20<andythenorth>nfo is just case: result everywhere :)
13:20<@Alberth>but what part should be used with what other part is magic in nfo
13:20<andythenorth>ha well maybe :D
13:20<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqjydvf7g
13:21<andythenorth>I want to check a parameter, and store a different (compile-time) value depending on the result
13:21<andythenorth>then return the _simple_produce switch
13:21<andythenorth>I think that can’t be done
13:22<@Alberth>return _simple_produce switch ?
13:22<@Alberth>or doesn't it need 'return' ?
13:23<andythenorth>oh that bit works fine
13:23<andythenorth>the problem is storing different vaues
13:23<andythenorth>values *
13:24<@Alberth>the var_num_output_cargos ?
13:25<andythenorth>confusingly, that’s the number of the temp storage
13:25<andythenorth>I am following the established convention, but yes, confusing
13:25<@Alberth>oh, the THIS_NUM_OUTPUT_CARGOS then :p
13:25<andythenorth>yes :)
13:26<andythenorth>which will always be 1 or 2
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13:26<@Alberth>make that a ?: expression?
13:26<andythenorth>ternary?
13:26*andythenorth wonders if a value can be checked against a list
13:26<@Alberth>(economy == 1 || economy == 4) ? 1 : 2
13:26<@Alberth>ternary indeed
13:26<andythenorth>that would do it
13:27<andythenorth>OR
13:27<@Alberth>1 + (economy == 1 || economy == 4)
13:28<andythenorth>neater :)
13:28<@Alberth>if economy numbering doesn't matter, and you have only one case, you can use a bit of economy itself :p
13:29<@Alberth>odd numbers for 2, and even numbers for 1
13:29<andythenorth>unfortunately, it matters :)
13:29<@Alberth>well, even if it didn't, it's probably too complicated to want
13:30<@Alberth>you make connections between unrelated numbers, that may complicate things later
13:30<andythenorth>this is quite neat now
13:32<@Alberth>yay :)
13:34<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptpbgxz5v
13:34*andythenorth hopes the ternary is true : false :P
13:35<@Alberth>it is
13:35<@Alberth>sort of 'then' : 'else'
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13:49<+glx><@Alberth> 1 + (economy == 1 || economy == 4) <-- valid only if test returns 0 or 1
13:51<@Alberth>yes, afaik is NML doing that
13:55<andythenorth>it does
13:55<andythenorth>but I’ve used the ternary op. anyway, easier to read for people who don’t grok that true = 1
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>i might have done it more like https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwlhwkjun
14:11<@Alberth>ah, I wondered about that
14:11<@Alberth>you can only call other switched in the {} part, I guess?
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>i think so.
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>a procedure might help
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know if nml supports them
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqhi22kns
14:18<@Alberth>that would be neat :)
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>NFO supports procedures
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>and at least once i tried teaching them to NML
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/nml_call_procedure.diff <-- i don't know if that ever worked
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>there seems to have been a type conversion problem
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>CALL(blah) <-- blah is a switch, but the parameter of a 60x variable is expected to be an integer
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>but i won't investigate this.
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but doing this via parameter instead of temporary storage may be more efficient
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>but you either have to reserve a parameter for each industry, or use a lot of weird bitstuffing
14:35<M3Henry>I fed up with namespaces
14:35<M3Henry>I'm*
14:36<M3Henry>I cannot for the life of me work out why this object cannot be found
14:57<andythenorth>me neither
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15:19<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:39<@Alberth>hi hi
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16:22<mosquitobait>I have forgotten the name of a NewGRF (or am blind to the settings option?) that let me enable all industries on any climate. Could someone remind me of the name, or point me at the setting for that?
16:23<@Alberth>it's not a setting in the game at least
16:23<Wolf01>that was "bad feature" and I think is gone now
16:23<Wolf01>the climate change cheat
16:23<@Alberth>opengfx+industries may come close
16:23<mosquitobait>Not climate change.
16:23<@Alberth>it doesn't do toyland though, so not all climates
16:24<@Alberth>I don't know if you can have all industries tbh, perhaps there are more than 32 cargoes
16:26<@Alberth>why do you want all industries?
16:26<mosquitobait>Yes, OpenGFX+ industries lets me add diamond/gold, but I also had bananas/rubber and food processor on a temperate world. It did prevent generation of normal forests, but I figure having useless lumber mills is an okay penalty for adding the food chain and rubber.
16:27<@Alberth>you checked the parameter settings of opengfx+industries, right?
16:27<mosquitobait>yeah, but it may have downloaded an update to it, didn't restart the game yet
16:28*andythenorth recommends using a proper industry grf :P
16:28<mosquitobait>andythenorth: If the "proper industry grf" didn't make world generation take 20 minutes I'd use it more often :)
16:29<andythenorth>:o
16:29<andythenorth>sounds like a bug
16:29<andythenorth>what map size?
16:29<@Alberth>could also be a town name generator problem?
16:30<andythenorth>1024x1024 takes about 8s for me with FIRS
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16:34<mosquitobait>I swear it was just a normal settings option - I have it in a 1.5.0 game on my laptop...
16:40<@Alberth>look at the loaded newgrfs in-game?
16:42<@Alberth>changing availability of default industries is a quite easy newgrf, so I can see it would exist
16:43<mosquitobait>No NewGRF on my laptop mentions it now, but I'm looking right at temperate copper mines and a factory taking steel rubber and copper...
16:44<@Alberth>there are no newgrfs loaded in that game?
16:44<@Alberth>woow
16:44<krinn>might be because it's not openttd :)
16:45<mosquitobait>Alberth: where'd you get that interpretation from?
16:45<@Alberth>"No NewGRF on my laptop mentions it now"
16:45<mosquitobait>Yeah?
16:45<@Alberth>from there
16:45<mosquitobait>Where do you get "no newgrfs installed" from that?
16:46<mosquitobait>I could have a thousand installed with none mentioning it...
16:46<@Alberth>I asked for having a look at the newgrfs in that game
16:46<@Alberth>since that game must enable it in some way
16:46<@Alberth>and the only proper way is by newgrf
16:47<mosquitobait>Found fforum posts for OpenGFX+ Industries suggesting it did it. Maybe that got remove in 0.3.5.
16:47<Sylf>0.3.5 works just fine
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16:48<@Alberth>if you prefer looking through a zillion unused newgrfs instead of at most 63 used newgrfs, fine
16:49<mosquitobait>Sylf: Yes, it does, but the options that enabled copper/banana/rubber/food on temperate aren't showing up on my games for 0.3.5.
16:49<Sylf>It shows up for me.
16:49<Sylf>Where are you looking for those options?
16:49<Sylf>NewGRF Parameters for OpenGFX+ Industries?
16:50<Sylf>Or game options or settings?
16:50<mosquitobait>Sylf: parameters.
16:50<Sylf>Do you see the warning message saying that the newgrf is disabled?
16:50<Sylf>probable due to having a conflicting industry newgrf?
16:51<mosquitobait>Sylf: I'm seeing coal chain, oil chain, bank chain, and oil well restrictions. The other industry options aren't there.
16:51<Sylf>Do you see the scroll bar on that window?
16:51<Sylf>or resize that window
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16:51<mosquitobait>Sylf: Thank you for pointing out my being a moron :)
16:52<Sylf>If you're on a tablet device, it may be the fault of that
16:52<mosquitobait>Sylf: The window is only showing four rows, even fthough there's probably height for 12.
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16:52<Sylf>the bottom half is used to display the description of each settings
16:52<mosquitobait>Sylf: Now that I see the scroll bar, I found them :)(
16:53<Sylf>ok, another myth busted. Dum dee dum.
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17:07<andythenorth> bye
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18:24<Wolf01>'night
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21:29<supermop>yo
21:29<Pikka>yoyo
22:19<supermop>hows qld pikka
22:19<supermop>had 4 beers from up there last night
22:19<Pikka>lucky you :)
22:20<Pikka>any good?
22:21<supermop>yeah
22:23<supermop>Noisy Minor Red Ale, Newstead Macadamia Amber, Green Beacon Pale, and 4 Hearts Coffee Cream Ale
22:24<supermop>it's good beer week here, and the bar we went to last night was doing all queensland craft breweries
22:24<Pikka>never heard of any of them, they obviously don't sell much locally :)
22:25<supermop>i didnnt see any of them when i was up there either
22:25<supermop>i almost wish they were bottled instead of on tap so i could at least get a look at the labels
22:30<supermop>of f to grab lunch, back later
22:30<Pikka>seeya
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---Logclosed Sun May 17 00:00:50 2015