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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-05-18

---Logopened Mon May 18 00:00:51 2015
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02:20<andythenorth>huzzah
02:20<andythenorth>I very broke FIRS
02:26<Supercheese>just break it more until it's fixed
02:37<andythenorth>yeah
02:38<andythenorth>I have unbroken most of it
02:38<andythenorth>but not default vehicles :(
02:38<Supercheese>No One™ uses default vehicles
02:39<andythenorth>lies
02:40<andythenorth>also, endless bug reports would happen
02:40<andythenorth>of “FIRS is broken”
02:40<V453000>xd
02:42*andythenorth grumpy
02:43<supermop>use beer
02:45<andythenorth>“BEER"
02:45<andythenorth>BEER doesn’t work
02:45<andythenorth>that was one of my bugs
02:45<andythenorth>string literal needs enclosed in quotes
03:04<andythenorth>eh
03:04<andythenorth>FIRS 1.4.4 breaks default vehicles too
03:04<andythenorth>just less completely
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03:20<andythenorth>bbl
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08:46<V453000>:D how do I cd to a different disk in windows command line?
08:46<supermop>uhh
08:47<supermop>like in dos?
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: "D:"
08:47<V453000>which is? :D
08:47<V453000>oh, so reverse all smileys? :P
08:47<V453000>thanks Eddi|zuHause
08:47<V453000>aint working :d
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>you did it wrong
08:49<V453000>cd E:\folder\
08:49<V453000>that I di
08:49<V453000>d
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes
08:49<V453000>both with "" and without
08:49<__ln__>that also works, but it doesn't do what you expect
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>but you need to write "E:" without cd, and without anything else
08:49<V453000>that throws an error :d
08:50<V453000>oh
08:50<V453000>got it
08:50<V453000>xd
08:50<V453000>thanks :D
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: each drive has its own working directory, so you can change the working directory without being on the drive, but you need to switch to the drive to make that working directory your current working directory
08:53<V453000>yeah, I noticed that once I switched to that drive, I was immediately in the folder I tried to cd all the time
08:54<supermop>off to seinfeld and bed
08:54<supermop>later all
08:55<V453000>cya
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>either the emojic 8 ball is broken, or i just have no proper font installed
09:18<V453000>and I just managed to load all grass slopes as 100% alpha and wondered why it shitborked the game
09:18<V453000>great stuff
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds fun
09:28-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
09:38<V453000>hm, brick size 20cm out of 1000cm tile is way too small
09:38<V453000>need bigger
09:40<@peter1138>Drive letters, silly Windows.
09:40<@peter1138>They're not even drives, they're partitions :S
09:41<V453000>me haz 1 partition per disk atm :P
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11:21<@Alberth>moin
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11:25<argoneus>guys
11:25<argoneus>guys
11:25<argoneus>do you know what the highest mountain on earth was before they discovered mount everest
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11:26<Eddi|zuHause>mount everest isn't the highest mountain on earth
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>(from base to top)
11:27<krinn>what is earth?
11:27<argoneus>jesus christ
11:27<argoneus>go back to your trains guys
11:27<argoneus>:(
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>sorry to spoil your trick question :p
11:28<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: you are a party pooper!
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
11:28<argoneus>I'll build railroads over your roads
11:28<argoneus>just for that
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>i have a road crossing patch. just for that
11:29<argoneus>you are a fucking party pooper
11:29<argoneus>you know that
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>you are going in circles.
11:29<argoneus>I can't even take petty revenge
11:29<argoneus>no
11:29<argoneus>I just tried to approach it from another angle
11:29<argoneus>but that's blocked off too
11:31*krinn checking if he has join #triviaandanger
11:31<@Alberth>#openttd carries many names :p
11:31-!-Progman [~progman@p57A18D5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>the channel of many names
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>(i may have watched too much game of thrones)
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>(i do not recognize that there is a thing as "too much game of thrones")
11:34<krinn>if you start calling anyone bugging you lanister...
11:34<@Alberth>inevitably, there will be too much game of thrones, although it may be a while before that happens
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>before i close my eyes at night i list the names of all people that wronged me.
11:46<argoneus>do you listen to isis music to
11:46<argoneus>o
11:47<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
11:47<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 32 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
11:47<Sacro>:(
11:48<argoneus>at least he left with a smile on his face
11:54<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i'm no more doing that, and my insomnia has stopped
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12:07<Flygon>@seen drac_boy
12:07<@DorpsGek>Flygon: drac_boy was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 26 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <drac_boy> any of you know what they call these smaller steam locomotive that had vertical boilers instead? the name seem to not come to me :-s
12:07<Flygon>Grasshopper?...
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>so you're answering questions from 2 weeks ago, to people who are not here, now?
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12:25<Sacro>@seen dragonhorseboy
12:25<@DorpsGek>Sacro: dragonhorseboy was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 11 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <dragonhorseboy> going for now..have fun :p
12:25<Sacro>le sigh, those where the days
12:25<Sacro>@seen Eddi|zuHause2
12:25<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Eddi|zuHause2 was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 53 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause2> did you mean "two months"? :p
12:25<Sacro>He's been gone ages too
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13:51<@Terkhen>hello
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13:55<Wolf01>o/
13:58<@Alberth>moin
14:04<argoneus>moan
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14:33<V453000>how does the tree animation cycle work?
14:33<V453000>is the amount of ticks between stages somewhat consistent?
14:33<V453000>is stage 4 there for longest? (The main mature tree)
14:34<V453000>it looks that way.
14:39<frosch123>it wouldn't be ttd if the intervals wouldn't have random length
14:40<V453000>XD ok
14:40<V453000>so answer is: quit being an idiot, make 3 growing stages, one grown stage, and 3 dying stages, just like the original, no fancy shi
14:40<V453000>t
14:42<frosch123>generally it has to decide between A) grow a new tree on the tile, B) grow a new tree on a neighbour tile, or C) kill a tree on the current tile
14:42<frosch123>each with chance 1/3
14:43<frosch123>if a tree grows or dies on a tile that takes 3 cycles
14:43-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
14:43<frosch123>then it restarts the decision
14:44<frosch123>V453000: are you aware that each tile has multiple trees? the growing/dieing cycle only applies to one of them
14:44<frosch123>the rest of them stays constant
14:44<V453000>yez
14:45<V453000>I am just wondering about the tree sprites :P
14:45<V453000>ie, whether it is okay to only define 2 growing, 1 adult, 4 dying stages for example
14:45<V453000>instead of 3-1-1
14:45<V453000>3-1-3 :)
14:45<andythenorth>lo
14:45<andythenorth>default vehicles?
14:46<frosch123>the amount of growth stages is fixed
14:46<frosch123>you can only make stages look the same
14:46<frosch123>but you cannot add stages
14:46<V453000>ye
14:46<V453000>also, I made a major graphical revelation today:
14:47<V453000>when I do WTF models, OpenTTD scale does not seem weird (example, slugs)
14:47<V453000>when I do realistic vehicles, the scale always looks bad
14:47<V453000>suggested solution-> do WTF
14:48<andythenorth>it took you this long to figure that out? :o
14:48<andythenorth>my only WTF is why you didn’t do WTF earlier
14:49<V453000>GOOD
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15:06*andythenorth thinks NUTS should all look like Zool http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/extras/image/name/san2/717/485717/original/screenshot103.png
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15:10<@Alberth>doesn't it? It has lots of bright happy colours already
15:12<V453000>wtf is that even
15:12<V453000>I hate how it looks btw
15:13<@Alberth>the curse of progress in artistic abilities :)
15:13<@Alberth>but wtf, time for nuts2
15:13<@Alberth>:)
15:14<V453000>nah I can still continue NUTS1 :P
15:14<V453000>it is WTF compatible
15:15<V453000>brix for now though :)
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15:38<andythenorth>so eh
15:38<andythenorth>what next? o_O
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16:10<andythenorth>V453000: does YETI break default vehicles?
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16:14<frosch123>you mean beyond default vehicles not having vehicles for new cargos?
16:15<andythenorth>FIRS does worst than that
16:16<andythenorth>coal in copper ore car
16:16<andythenorth>engineering supplies in water car
16:16<andythenorth>clay in wood truck
16:16<andythenorth>etc
16:16<andythenorth>actually broken
16:17<frosch123>hmm, why was the cargo limit considered a hard limit again?
16:17<andythenorth>reasons
16:21*andythenorth could have FIRS disable default vehicles
16:21<andythenorth>or fix them
16:21<andythenorth>or refuse to load
16:21<frosch123>you cannot fix them without making them available
16:22<frosch123>we already have a warning if there are no vehicles transporting cargo X
16:22<frosch123>but ofc you could disable default vehicles to press the issue :p
16:22<andythenorth>the thinking is
16:22<andythenorth>for example, I didn’t use newgrf for first ~2 years of playing openttd
16:22<andythenorth>because I thought they were dangerous hacks
16:23<andythenorth>to an inexperienced player, FIRS looks like a broken hack
16:24<frosch123>well, we need newgrf presets on bananas :)
16:24<frosch123>then only allow advanced users to add individual grfs
16:24<andythenorth>:P
16:24<andythenorth>advanced_user=1
16:26<frosch123>hmm, i don't remember the reasoing for the cargo limit
16:27<frosch123>increase it to 250 total, 128 per grf? :p
16:27<frosch123>then we can reinvent regearing, because you do not have to reserve slots :p
16:27<andythenorth>all kinds of evil hacks
16:27<andythenorth>electricity
16:27<andythenorth>gas
16:27<andythenorth>:P
16:28<frosch123>one cargo per industry should be fine, right? :p
16:28<andythenorth>perfect :P
16:28<andythenorth>nobody could abuse this
16:28*andythenorth assumed there was some hard limit on this
16:29<frosch123>the hard limits are newgrf variables, map array and command parameters
16:29<frosch123>newgrf all use translated bits, which are already in 8bit range
16:29<frosch123>map array does not store cargos
16:29<frosch123>and command parameters with cargoid are rare, and likely have enough free bits
16:30<frosch123>basically only bit stuffing implies limits
16:32<andythenorth>hmm
16:32<andythenorth>128 per grf? o_O
16:33<andythenorth>I seriously think that without the 32 cargo limit, FIRS would have become an unworkable monster
16:33<andythenorth>instead of a monster on a leash
16:33<frosch123>well, ideally you would get rid of the global reservation
16:33<frosch123>so you do not conflict with passenger, mail and regearing slots
16:35<andythenorth>yes
16:35<andythenorth>alternatively, is it feasible to have default vehicles use cargo labels?
16:36<frosch123>they already kind of do
16:36<frosch123>but only the refittable ones
16:36<frosch123>i.e. engines, ships and aircraftr
16:36<frosch123>for rv and train wagons cargo labels and classes make no sense
16:37<frosch123>because you have individual wagons for cargos
16:37<frosch123>and there is no obvious way how to assign new cargos to old wagons
16:37<andythenorth>labels would decouple them from cargo slots though
16:37<andythenorth>so not broken
16:37<frosch123>unless we add some weird cargo property :p
16:38*andythenorth considered some mapping that is set by the newgrf cargos
16:38<andythenorth>but eh, ugh
16:38<andythenorth>isn’t there some legacy property that kind of does that?
16:38<frosch123>possibly property 08, but it is not used like that
16:39<frosch123>and the graphics would fail in any case
16:39<frosch123>alternatively we could make the box van carry everything :)
16:39<frosch123>box and tanker
16:39<frosch123>i.e. the closed ones :p
16:40<andythenorth>could work
16:40<andythenorth>128 cargos would open up some possibilities, but I’m not sure I like them :)
16:40<frosch123>well, my goal would be to have more cargos in total than per grf
16:40<andythenorth>that would make sense
16:40<frosch123>so we can get rid of the conflicts maybe
16:42<andythenorth>32 per grf?
16:42<andythenorth>hmm
16:42<andythenorth>it’s a can of worms
16:42<krinn>night guys
16:42-!-krinn [~krinn@24.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Zzzzz]
16:42<frosch123>32 per grf, with the ability to not require a slot for mail/pax in every grf
16:43<andythenorth>and labels as the common link?
16:43<andythenorth>never slots?
16:43*andythenorth assumes
16:43<frosch123>kind of
16:43<andythenorth>so if two grfs define COAL, are they treated as same cargo?
16:43<andythenorth>or just interchangeable?
16:43<frosch123>second COAL overwrites first COAL
16:44<andythenorth>so the label is unique across all active grfs?
16:45<frosch123>but SCRP and SCMT would be separate :p
16:45<andythenorth>ha ha
16:45<frosch123>andythenorth: basically like railtypes
16:45<frosch123>you request a slot for a label, and you get one
16:45<frosch123>within the grf you use local slots, which do not matter for anything
16:45<andythenorth>and you may ask for up to 32 slots
16:45<andythenorth>but not more
16:46<frosch123>yes, or whatever number
16:46<andythenorth>it will end up at 128
16:46<andythenorth>or 64 :P
16:46<andythenorth>we’ll just have to learn not to eat all the pies
16:47<@Terkhen>good night
16:47<andythenorth>bye Terkhen
16:48<frosch123>maybe it would be a grfv9 thing though
16:48<andythenorth>maybe new FIRS is a grfv9 thing :)
16:48<andythenorth>when is grfv9? o_O
16:49<frosch123>we need some method to replace original cargos or something
16:49<frosch123>like a "substitute" property
16:49<frosch123>unless we want to do the same magic as with vehicles
16:49<frosch123>cargo slots 0-31 replace original ones, 32-63 are new ones :p
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16:50<frosch123>andythenorth: what do you expect follows grfv8?
16:50<andythenorth>grfvX of course
16:50<frosch123>i mean, i see some questions about what would follow grfv9 :p
16:52<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/GRF_Version_9 “There is currently no text in this page” :P
16:52<frosch123>andythenorth: anyway, don't worry. the current grfv9 list is just a list of random grumbling :)
16:52<frosch123>andythenorth: no uppercase "V"
16:53<andythenorth>ho ho
16:53<frosch123>did you guess the link or something silly?
16:54<andythenorth>yes :)
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16:54<andythenorth>hmm, you had an industry window text proposal somewhere?
16:54<frosch123>likely on the "new callback results" page
16:54<frosch123>i think there are some intersections between those two pages
16:55<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/New_Results#CB_37:_Industry_window_acceptance.2Fcargo_text
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16:55<andythenorth>industry special effects still lives as a dream :D
16:56<frosch123>actually, "it can't be that hard" :p
16:56<andythenorth>not even sure it adds much :)
16:56<andythenorth>might make interesting forests
16:57<frosch123>manually placing objects is boring
16:57<frosch123>so, i hope industries would build them for me :p
16:58<andythenorth>reasonable hope
17:00*andythenorth hopes for ponies
17:02<andythenorth>isolated cargos, industry window text
17:03<frosch123>night
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17:04<andythenorth>also
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17:20<Fahrradkette>hi guys. I just installed openttd on debian 8 (jessie) using the packet manager. All seems to run fine except for the audio part, I often hear distorting sounds....how can I tell openttd which audio interface to use?
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17:32<Fahrradkette>correction: the sounds do play without distortion but not the music
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17:54<Wolf01>'night
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18:17<Fahrradkette>n8
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20:55<supermop>hi
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---Logclosed Tue May 19 00:00:53 2015