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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-05

---Logopened Fri Jun 05 00:00:16 2015
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01:39<supermop>yo
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02:18<kamnet>Good morning supermop. How goes?
02:18<@planetmaker>moin
02:22<kamnet>good morning planetmaker
02:34<supermop>goes alright
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02:50<kamnet>good deal supermop
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07:12<titch>hello. recently got OTTD 1.5.1 and when i go to online content nothing loads up, no new GRF's AI none of it... is this a bug or just my copy?
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07:15<orian>titch: just checked, works fine for me
07:16<orian>frosch123: I've poke around game scripts. I cannot find a way to check an owner of the road, any clues?
07:17<titch>any ideas on whats wrong with mine then oriian
07:19<orian>maybe firewall?
07:20<titch>true
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07:28<@planetmaker>orian, it's pointless to highlight a person who's not around ;)
07:28<@planetmaker>(and imho generally politer to just ask general questions without highlighting a particular person)
07:28<@planetmaker>you might want to make use of GSTile::GetOwner()
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07:30<@planetmaker>@ports
07:30<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
07:30<@planetmaker>hm.. he's gone
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07:31<@planetmaker>orian, do you know http://nogo.openttd.org/api/ ?
07:32<V453000>XD
07:32<orian>planetmaker: yes,using it
07:33<orian>eh, i didn't notice this method (Tile:GetOwner()), thanks!
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09:01<supermop>yo
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09:23<peter1138>~
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11:02<orian>Ok, i have a GS finding user roads, but when I call GSRoad.AreRoadTilesConnected(tile, next_tile) it returns false, the road was create in UI
11:05<@Alberth>You tried it at the simplest level possible? GSRoad.AreRoadTilesConnected(AITile.GetTileIndex(x, y), AITile.GetTileIndex(x+1, y)) or so?
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11:07<@Alberth>You tried setting a road type?
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11:13<orian>I have two coordinates, I print them to log, they are adjacent, and the function returns false
11:15<@Alberth>pre-conditions all hold?
11:16<orian>checking, I've added extra checks
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11:23<orian>looks like precodnitions are met
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11:42<orian>hm the method: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.5.1/classGSCompanyMode.html doesn't exist
11:44<orian>also, I've tried to use GSRoad.RemoveRoad, it returns false.
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11:45<orian>all preconditions are met, I guess it's only for AI not GS?
11:47<@Alberth>there is a GSRoad, so it should work
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11:52<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/info.nut http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/main.nut works for me
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12:00<orian>it doesn't remove a road
12:01<orian>unless i miss something obvious like 'submitting' actions
12:01<@Alberth>no, you had a road connect problem didn't you?
12:02<orian>yes,
12:02<orian>I still have it,
12:02<@Alberth>my files show the primitive works, as far as I can see
12:03<orian>ok,
12:03<orian>thx
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12:03<@Alberth>you may want to make a post about it in the forum, with a small example
12:03<@Alberth>hoi
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12:04<frosch123>moin
12:04<@Alberth>and code that demonstrates the failure
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12:10<orian>thx
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12:20<andythenorth>o/
12:22<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:30*andythenorth has been away
12:34<@Alberth>wb then :)
12:41*andythenorth ponders drawing
12:45<@Alberth>lacking pixels?
12:50*andythenorth will find some
13:26*andythenorth wonders what the FIRS hardware store is for
13:26<andythenorth>and why the builders yard doesn’t just accept goods
13:26<andythenorth>is it to offer variety of destinations? o_O
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13:40<Sziha>Hello everybody! I was wondering if someone can help me with compiling openttd :)
13:42*andythenorth changing FIRS builders yard https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7331/builders_yard_1.png
13:42<andythenorth>previously this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#builders_yard
13:42<LordAro>frosch123: wiki updated, sorry for the delay :p
13:43<frosch123>thanks :)
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13:55<Supercheese>Oooh, new builder's yard is nice
14:04<Sziha>Hi guys. Im working on Mac. (osx 10.10) I actually want to play Openttd with this patches: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73085 . when I try to use 'make' command after some time in the process i get an error: [SRC] Compiling rev.cpp /Users/krzys/OpenttdNEW/src/rev.cpp:60:41: error: expected expression const byte _openttd_revision_modified = ; ^ 1 error generated. make[1]: *** [rev.o] Error 1 make: ***
14:05<Sziha>does anyone know how to fix it?
14:05<frosch123>check whether you got an error message earlier
14:06<Sziha>no, that's the only one. and compiling stops right after that error
14:07<Sziha>the thing i'm doing, i'm downloading the source (provided on the first post on the forum) and then i ./configure and then make, right? the patches should be already applied?
14:09<frosch123>oh, in that case, maybe the sources on the forums are already borked
14:09<frosch123>what is the content of rev.cpp and rev.cpp.in right after download?
14:09<frosch123>i.e. before running anything
14:09<frosch123>you can paste them to paste.openttdcoop.org
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>most likely something failing in ./configure
14:12<Sziha>no, ./configure runs without any problems
14:12<Sziha>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p808fsexm
14:13<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: more likely the uploaded source is some half broken non-vcs-chekcout
14:13<Sziha>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/paqwvupo1
14:14<Sziha>actually when i try to do ./configure it tells me -bash: ./configure Permission denied
14:14<Sziha>then i put command 'chmod +x configure'
14:15<frosch123>yeah, likely the patcher is on windows, and broke all the scripts :p
14:15<frosch123>well, you can try coying the rev.cpp over the rev.cpp.in
14:15<frosch123>it really cannot get more broken :p
14:16<Sziha>haha
14:17<Sziha>actutally there are files skipped during configuration
14:17<Sziha>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phsxgtej5
14:17<Sziha>that's ./configure log
14:17<Sziha>and now i see there are errors there too
14:18<frosch123>the skipping is fine
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14:19<frosch123>no idea about the clang errors, that's really an osx-only thing
14:19<Sziha>ok ;)
14:19<Sziha>so i put the content of rev.cpp into rev.cpp.in /
14:19<Sziha>?
14:20<frosch123>yes, no promises :p
14:20<Sziha>ok, let's see
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14:22<Sziha>do you think it's something the patchMaker can fix if I post it on the forum? or it is just because he patched it on windows, and i'm on mac?
14:23<frosch123>it's because the patcher uploaded a self made source mundle
14:23<frosch123>*buindle
14:23<frosch123>instead of a patch
14:23<Sziha>there are like 30 patches he applied
14:23<frosch123>and the bundle contains half of the files which are auto-generated, and misses others
14:23<Sziha>i see
14:24<Sziha>would i get the same result if i applied patches by myself?
14:24<frosch123>don't underestimate the effort to apply 30 patches and resolve the conflicts :p
14:24<Sziha>that's what i'm thinking :D
14:24<frosch123>what i mean, the patcher should have uploaded a combined patch
14:25<Sziha>does it mean that he has to change patches somehow to make them all work together?
14:25<frosch123>a single patch file containing all the patches, already merged
14:25<Sziha>i see
14:25<frosch123>you required programming skills to merge patches, unless they are really independent
14:25<Sziha>so the process of applying more then one patch is first joing them in one patch and then patching the openttd source code?
14:25<Sziha>yup
14:25<frosch123>which is unlikely if there are 30 or them :p
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14:26<Sziha>that is certain i'm not there yet ;)
14:26<frosch123>no, you patch the ottd source with the 30 patches, one at a time
14:26<frosch123>and at the end you create a new patch from that source
14:26<Sziha>i see
14:27<Sziha>ok, i'll ask for the final patch then. if he made it work, is it difficult to create final patch?
14:27<frosch123>that depends on how the patcher did the merges
14:28<Sziha>ok :D my compiling process is still running after changing the files you mentioned
14:28*andythenorth ponders
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14:28<frosch123>if it was done "correctly" it is only 2 clicks. but sometimes people get creative and achieve things in ways noone thought they could be done
14:28<andythenorth>should I remove the FIRS hardware store? o_O
14:29<Sziha>haha
14:30<Sziha>well i have passed the file that caused an error before. But now i got another one, this time in tree_cmd.cpp https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pcex9xslg
14:31<frosch123>insert a "(TreeType)" after the ":"
14:33<Sziha>i dont' know how to do that...
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14:34<frosch123>well, use some texteditor (no office writer) to edit that fiile :)
14:34<frosch123>then continue with "make"
14:35<Sziha>that's the line 147 of the tree_cmd.cpp file
14:35<Sziha> return (seed & 1) ? (TreeType)(seed * TREE_COUNT_SUB_ARCTIC / 256 + TREE_SUB_ARCTIC) : (seed * TREE_COUNT_SUB_ARCTIC / 256 + TREE_SUB_ARCTIC);
14:35<frosch123>yes, insert a "(TreeType)" after the ":" :)
14:35<frosch123>there is only one colon in that line
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>Sziha: see how the first item reads "(TreeType)(seed * ...)" and the second one reads just "(seed * ...)"?
14:36<Sziha>yup, got it
14:36<Sziha>making it again :D:D
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>Sziha: that is probably an error in one of the patches
14:36<frosch123>which the windows compiler ignored apparently
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>either ignored it, or did some kind of type inference
14:37<Sziha>if a 'make' process stopped due to an error, and then i changed that file, if i just put 'make' again, it will pick it up when it stopped?
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>the latter assuming some kind of intelligence on the compiler part :p
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Sziha: usually yes
14:38<Sziha>ok
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14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Sziha: unless the file you changed is used by a lot of other files, like english.txt
14:38<Sziha>i'll start it again then becuase right after i got another error...
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>then it has to re-do basically everything
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>also some .h files have that effect
14:39<Sziha>yup, that's fine
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14:45<Sziha>so how about that error... /Users/krzys/OpenttdNEW/src/viewport.cpp:168:43: error: a space is required between consecutive right angle brackets (use '> >') typedef std::list<std::pair<int, OrderType>> RankOrderTypeList;
14:46<Sziha>just put space between >> in line 168 ?
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14:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but that is your compiler being ancient, not an actual error.
14:46<Sziha>well... i'm using command line in my macos
14:46<Sziha>but i have newest xcode downloaded
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>just because it's "newest" (whatever that means), doesn't mean they kept up in development with the language changes...
14:47<Sziha>haha, that might be an issue -_-
14:48<Sziha>so what language is actually used here?
14:48<Sziha>is it c++?
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>i think the ">> without space" is a C++11-ism
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>meaning a change in the C++ language introduced in 2011
14:49<Sziha>interesting, because this xcode has c++ 14 implemented alerady...
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14:49<Sziha>well i'll just change this file and see if it works
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't mean they implemented ALL of it
14:50<Sziha>they must have not^^
14:51<frosch123>oh, so c++11 added even more ambigiousness :p
14:51<frosch123>i didn't think you could make it even worse
14:52<Sziha>i have to start saving more for my pc. I'm using mac for last 6 months and everytime i want to do something i have to go through a series of painful and time consuming 'solutions' to make anything work
14:54<andythenorth>just install linux on dual boot
14:54<andythenorth>or even in virtualbox
14:55<Sziha>it's not my computer and the owner doesn't allow it... long story short, today i feel like i need a pc even more :D
14:55<andythenorth>a PC laptop is about £200 or so
14:56*andythenorth is typing this on a mac
14:56<andythenorth>there are definitely obstacles to using a mac for software development
14:57<Sziha>haha, i recently moved to canada and i can't work here yet. that's why i have to wait a little more before buying new computer.and if i buy a new computer for sure it won't be a £200 pc :P
14:58<Sziha>hey, if i got a linking error this time, can i just configure and make it again? without putting back oryginal files?
15:00<frosch123>you can configure and make as often as you like
15:00<frosch123>it does not affect your changes
15:00<Sziha>ok
15:01<Sziha>so this is the linking error. can you make anything of it? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p86u6vfbx
15:03<frosch123>haha, windows patchers :p
15:03<frosch123>you likely need to add some more lines to sources.list
15:03<frosch123>any files which are new due to the patches
15:03<Sziha>ah
15:04<Sziha>i think i'm gonna give up on that...
15:06<Sziha>i'll ask for one patch from the patchmaker and i'll try it then
15:06<Sziha>thank you (again!) for your time guys
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>that likely won't fix any of the errors you got here
15:10<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> a PC laptop is about £200 or so <-- the last PC i bought came out at ~800€
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>a laptop with similar equipment is likely more expensive than that
15:16<Sziha>i dont' really need a laptop. I used to have a pc, but because i moved, i couldn't take it with me. I had an i7-2600k, 16GB or RAM, Samsung 840 pro SSD drive and GTX 470 graphic card. it worked good enough for me :D
15:21<Sziha>Frosch123, you were lauging at 'windows patchers' before, you think that linux is the best for that kind of work?
15:21<frosch123>well, i am obviously biased
15:22<frosch123>but linux is definitely the best platform for developing software
15:22<frosch123>which does not necessarily make it the best platform for your purposes
15:22<Sziha>i see
15:23<frosch123>but the tools for developing software on linux are like a decade ahead of windows
15:23<frosch123>and osx is an isolated world
15:23<frosch123>either you do stuff on osx, or you do it not on osx
15:24<Sziha>that's the feeling i'm getting about osx
15:25<Sziha>recently i started to learn c++ (from the very very basic level). if i wanted to use linux for that, which one should i install?
15:25<Sziha>like you mentioned before, i could probably instal virtual machine on my mac
15:28<frosch123>i don't think i can make a proper recommendation :)
15:29<frosch123>i only used 3 distros in my life (suse, gentoo, debian)
15:29<frosch123>suse is thoroughly crap
15:29<frosch123>gentoo is when you want to jump into deep water and either learn stuff or drown
15:29<frosch123>if you are tech savy and want to learn stuff, you could try gentoo
15:30<frosch123>but if you are new, then debian is likely the best option of those 3
15:30<ST2>personally I use Linux Mint (debian based) to test some stuff - quite easy to use :)
15:30<frosch123>more end-user oriented distros like ubuntu are likely less useful for development
15:30<Sziha>how about ubuntu? it's... popular^^
15:30<Sziha>ah i see
15:31<frosch123>ubuntu is what you would pick if you came from windows and are not tech-savy :)
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15:33<Wolf01>hi o/
15:36<Sziha>but let's say that i'm interested in learning more about programming in general. coming from windows, if i choose ubuntu, would i learn new things, or is it just a windows replacement?
15:37<Sziha>or should i try ubuntu first and then move to gentoo?
15:37<frosch123>i don't think either of them are the right choice for you :)
15:37<frosch123>try debian, or mint or whatever :)
15:38<Sziha>haha, ok :D thanks!
15:38<andythenorth>the main issues with OS X are (1) ports tree not 100% reliable (2) Apple have an aggressive attitude to changing things + deprecating backwards compatibility
15:38<frosch123>and if you mean programming "in general", people recommend learning python these days
15:38<andythenorth>that is a worrying sign :(
15:38<frosch123>instead of c++ or java or c# or javascript
15:38<andythenorth>I wish they’d go and learn php
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15:39<andythenorth>actually in UK, javascript is the language du jour to teach, and for all the coolest frameworks
15:39<andythenorth>‘coolest’
15:39<Sziha>haha, well i read a lot about 'which programming language to learn first'
15:39<Sziha>and i just decided to go with c++
15:39<frosch123>c++ is certainly the hardest one of those listed :)
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, in university, the focus was about "learn how to learn languages" instead of "learn a specific language"
15:39<Sziha>i got a book of Bjarne Stroustrup. after reading 6 chapters i love it!
15:40<Sziha>once i learn enough (whatever it means) i will start learning another language
15:40<Sziha>it's same as with natural languages (and i know 4 of them :D)
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was to learn the concepts that stand behind most languages, instead of a specific language, which probably blurs the concept somewhat to fit in with other concepts
15:41<Sziha>eddi, that's something very interesting you are saying.
15:41<Sziha>I studied C for 1 semester on my university
15:42<Sziha>and now looking at C++ there are similarities
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>like, take a random language's "hello world", and see a bunch of stuff that are not immediately clear what they do
15:42<Sziha>yeah, i know what you are saying
15:44<Sziha>that's why i like the Stroustrup book, because it really gives a bigger picture while (in my opinion) teaching c++ really well
15:46<Sziha>ok, i got to go now. Thank you for ideas :) It's been a productive morning :D
15:46<Sziha>I'm sure I'll be back :D
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15:58<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/am0E60v_460s_v2.jpg __ln__?
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16:07<andythenorth>hmm
16:07<andythenorth>builders yard
16:07<andythenorth>nvm
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: so, is that the finnish equivalent of "Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän"?
16:28<frosch123>except it suggests that ä is the most common letter in finnish
16:28<frosch123>i mean double ää?
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>if that is news to you, you haven't ever seen a finnish word :p
16:29<frosch123>also, why ä and not æ ?
16:29<frosch123>and ö instead of œ ?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>would you really want to write that complicated of a shape, if it is so common?
16:29<frosch123>are they stessing the point that they are not scandinavian?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>which scandinavian language uses æ and œ?
16:31<frosch123>hmm, right, it
16:31<frosch123>'s ø, not œ
16:31<frosch123>æ and ø
16:31<frosch123>i am quite sure i have seen both in dk, no and se
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>danish uses ø, but swedish uses ö
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>there might be regional variations
16:32<frosch123>ü otoh seems uncommon, though common in turkish :p
16:32<frosch123>which means that german is a combination of turkish and scandinavian :)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds about right :p
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, swedish also has å
16:34<frosch123>well, that is a french thing :p
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>which is a sound somewhere between a on o
16:34<frosch123>yes, ou
16:34<frosch123>err, ao
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>s/on/and/
16:36<frosch123>is it the same as french "au revoir" though?
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause>not really. but i'm neither a french nor a swedish native speaker :p
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>my imagination of how it should sound might not match with how it actually sounds
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>and then there are dialects...
16:40<__ln__>ü is used in estonian though
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16:43<__ln__>swedes pronounce 'o' as /u/, so they need å to express /o/
16:44<Hiddenfunstuff>wait wat
16:45<Hiddenfunstuff>swedes use å as secondary o
16:45<__ln__>what do you mean by "secondary"?
16:45<Hiddenfunstuff>while ä and ö are own letters
16:45<Hiddenfunstuff>well å is pronounced as o
16:46<Hiddenfunstuff>well.. real swedes probably pronounce å little bit as higher pitch than o
16:46<__ln__>you can't replace o with å in words, or vice versa, so i dunno how is that less of a real letter.
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16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>dont know how to explain it, need an swede to explain it. We dont have need for the Å, just Ä and Ö which is pain in the ass in keyboards.. because Å is next to P
16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>and the Å is totally useless key
16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>or a letter
16:48<Hiddenfunstuff>theres a little difference between O and Å but not a huge one..
16:48<Sziha>^^
16:49<Hiddenfunstuff>No wait.. its just my unreadable font of IRC client that mixes up Å and Ä together
16:49<Hiddenfunstuff>forget what the hell i ever said
16:49<Sziha>whatever character you put, i see it as a square box with question mark in it :D
16:49<Hiddenfunstuff>do you mean the A with 1 dot or 2 dots?
16:52<Sziha>i've no idea. all i see is square box with question mark :D
16:52<Hiddenfunstuff>what was the original question
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16:54<+glx>yeah question marks in squares here too
16:55<Hiddenfunstuff>damn you americans with limited letters of the world
16:55<+glx>I'm in utd-8
16:55<__ln__>glx is hardly american
16:55<+glx>*utf-8
16:55<Hiddenfunstuff>still shouldnt utf-8 understand it?
16:56<+glx>and it's not missing glyph in my font, else it would be a blank square
16:56<+glx>not if it's not valid utf-8
16:56<Hiddenfunstuff>åååå öööö äääää ûûûûû
16:56<+glx>full of question marks
16:57<Hiddenfunstuff>so its missing also the umlauts
16:57<frosch123>they are valid utf-8 letters here
16:57<APTX>works for me
16:57<__ln__>åå öö ää ûû
16:57<+glx>I can read that
16:57<Hiddenfunstuff>I can barely
16:57<Hiddenfunstuff>it has some wierd symbols between the Äs
16:58<Hiddenfunstuff>but thats normal for my client due to its not even sticking to UTF8
16:58<Sziha>i can read all the letters that __ln__ wrote
16:58<Hiddenfunstuff>its using some strange encoding
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16:59<Hiddenfunstuff>http://i.imgur.com/cBtKqlf.jpg what we see
16:59<__ln__>so you aren't using utf-8.
16:59<+glx>yes you are not in UTF-8
16:59<Hiddenfunstuff>yeah its not UTF8
17:00<Hiddenfunstuff>dunno can it be changed from anywhere..
17:00<__ln__>who has removed the UTF-8 requirement from the channel topic?!
17:01<+glx>I don't know your client so I can't help
17:01<Hiddenfunstuff>HydraIRC
17:01<+glx>yes I know that ;)
17:01<Hiddenfunstuff>its some ancient version from dec2008..
17:02<Hiddenfunstuff>HydraIRC v0.3.165 (12/December/2008
17:03<+glx>I already CTCP VERSIONed you :)
17:03<Hiddenfunstuff>didnt notice that..
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17:04<Hiddenfunstuff>all the CTCP trash goes into a separate window which is minimized ^^
17:05<Hiddenfunstuff>this might be using LATIN-1.. not sure
17:08<+glx>wikipedia says it supports utf-8
17:08<Hiddenfunstuff>yeah.. just trying to figure out where to change it
17:08<+glx>so there's should be a settig to changes somewhere :)
17:09<Hiddenfunstuff>the settings menu is awesome "TBD" and then theres manual "All settings" tab which is literally boolean values everywhere
17:09<+glx>and my sentence is full of errors
17:10<Hiddenfunstuff>dont bother with such
17:11<Hiddenfunstuff>hmm
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17:14<Hiddenfunstuff>screw it.. its not that important
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17:23<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: so, you haven't said anything about the original topic.
17:35<Wolf01>Hiddenfunstuff: tools->options->irc->messages->utf-8 encode/decode?
17:36<Wolf01>oh hydrairc, no clue, I just use plain mirc and everything works
17:36<Eddi|zuHause><glx> full of question marks <-- that means your client doesn't do line-by-line conversion from non-utf8 to utf8
17:37<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: yes because my client is set on pure utf-8
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i imagine that to be really annoying in non-english channels
17:38<Hiddenfunstuff>as long as nobody starts flipping tables or anything like that, I can make sense of text
17:39<+glx>on non english I use a mixed encoding :)
17:39<Hiddenfunstuff>funny though Eddi|zuHause hydra understands cyrillics just fine
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18:02<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 06 00:00:17 2015