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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-07

---Logopened Sun Jun 07 00:00:19 2015
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01:31<@Alberth>moin
01:31<andythenorth>o/
01:36<supermop>hi
01:40<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7332/bigger_oil_refinery_1.png
01:40<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7333/bigger_oil_refinery_2.png
01:41*andythenorth has been taking advantage of FIRS compiling in 5s ^
01:41<andythenorth>more layouts for Oil Refinery
01:42<@Alberth>keeping tanks together and processing together
01:43<andythenorth>seems to be how it’s done
01:43<@Alberth>looks good
01:44<@Alberth>it could use a little more variation perhaps, the 'office' sort of disappears with the big buildings
01:44<@Alberth>perhaps some open space?
01:47<andythenorth>I wondered about some empty tile
01:47<andythenorth>or pipe tiles
01:47<andythenorth>dunno
01:47<andythenorth>I like the manic intensity
01:47<@Alberth>then don't touch it any more :)
01:49<@Alberth>you could have pipes at the same level as the top of the tanks, so people can walk under it
01:51*andythenorth will try it in a game or so, then decide
01:51<andythenorth>there are interesting pipe shapes that could be used
01:52<@Alberth>it's all a bit vertical to me, something horizontal-ish would break that
01:54<@Alberth>ah, original had more open pipes https://wiki.openttd.org/Oil_Refinery
01:56<@Alberth>maybe a group of different size tanks?
01:57<@Alberth>a 2x2 tiles one :)
02:04<andythenorth>there are probably pieces in DWE station tiles
02:04<andythenorth>or there are some oil station parts in ISR
02:08<@Alberth>doing a little shopping :)
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02:57*andythenorth busy busy
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03:01<andythenorth>hrm
03:01<andythenorth>Grain Mill
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03:01<andythenorth>forum suggestion to add silos
03:02<andythenorth>might be nice
03:02<andythenorth>also the windmill version is one tile
03:02<andythenorth>looks stupid
03:02<andythenorth>should I add a granary building?
03:02<andythenorth>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Skirbeck%2C_Boston%2C_Maud_Foster_Mill.jpg
03:02<andythenorth>http://gerald-massey.org.uk/windmills/images/07/Gamnel%20Wharf%20mill%201.jpg
03:03<andythenorth>or even two windmills together?
03:03<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#grain_mill
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03:17<@Alberth>second picture is clearly not good for the mill
03:18<@Alberth>the building takes away all the wind of the mill
03:18<@Alberth>like the idea of the building at a distance
03:19<@Alberth>two windmills seems a bit too much to me
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03:21<andythenorth>I tried it
03:21<andythenorth>might be ok
03:22<@Alberth>perhaps it's just me,I am used to windmills as single building in the middle of nowhere
03:22<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7334/two_windmills.png
03:22<@Alberth>but those are watermills, pumping water
03:24<andythenorth>dutch style :)
03:24<@Alberth>:)
03:25<andythenorth>hmm
03:25<@Alberth>http://straatkaart.nl/8711HB-Brouwersdijk/media_fotos/molen-ybenas-molen-workum-provincie-friesland-AgB/
03:25<@Alberth>http://www.fryslansite.com/d-base/html/Dokkum_molens.htm
03:25<andythenorth>I’ll draw a granary and then decide how many windmills
03:27<@Alberth>http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zwaluw_%28Birdaard%29#/media/File:Burdaard_m%C3%BBne.JPG grain mill
03:27<@Alberth>sounds like the right order of deciding to me :)
03:29<@Alberth>http://www.dezaanseschans.nl/en/windmills-at-zaanse-schans/ this is the only place where you have many mills together, but it's created this way for tourists (although originally there were a lot of mills there, 600 the text says)
03:29<@Alberth>can't imagine how that must have looked
03:30<@Alberth>probably like antenna spam :)
03:30<andythenorth>this granary? http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/18/21/182137_a2aa58cd.jpg o_O
03:31<andythenorth>maybe not
03:31<andythenorth>it’s a restaurant near my office ;P
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03:39<@Alberth>:O snowy builders yard, very good looking :)
03:39<@Alberth>it looks like a granary alright
03:40<@Alberth>perhaps a bit too many decorations :)
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03:51<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7335/windmill_granary.png
03:51<andythenorth>too high?
03:54<@Alberth>nah
03:55<@Alberth>interesting doors at the top floor :)
03:56<andythenorth>yeah
03:57<@Alberth>http://www.inarchitecten.nl/project.php?ps=6&pr=917 it needs a hook above it
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03:58<andythenorth>yes
04:03<andythenorth>needs a hook thing now https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7336/windmill_granary_2.png
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04:05<@Alberth>doesn't look like it to me
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04:05<@Alberth>you want a big door if you hoist grain to the second floor
04:07<@Alberth>new granary looks pretty, all buildings nicely in the same style
04:07<@planetmaker>moin
04:07<@Alberth>moin planetmaker
04:07<@planetmaker>hm, I see lovely new firs buildings here
04:08<@Alberth>all multi-site-ish
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04:14<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7337/windmill_granary_3.png
04:14<andythenorth>hook thing
04:14<andythenorth>dunno
04:15<V453000>yay
04:16<V453000>I think the holes/door should not be 100% black andy
04:17<@planetmaker>:) Not sure the hook needs a whole protruding building part. But looks nice this way, too
04:17<andythenorth>I think it looks weird tbh
04:17<@planetmaker>I think hook as in wooden means to fasten a rope to lift stuff to the window is totally sufficient
04:17*andythenorth removes the sticking out part
04:20<@planetmaker>http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fstade.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fpage%2F2%2F&h=507&w=760&tbnid=-dm82S4BQLIqsM%3A&zoom=1&docid=jE3zwYFAtZlKVM&ei=r_5zVei_OcvSUevMgIAM&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=350&page=2&start=46&ndsp=52&ved=0COYBEK0DMEA <-- like those things found on the buildings there
04:21<@planetmaker>just a small stick
04:22<V453000>I like sticking out part a lot
04:22<V453000>a nice detail
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04:36<Wolf01>hi hi
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04:36<@Alberth>moin
04:40<V453000>hyhy
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04:43<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png
04:44<@planetmaker>oh, that looks very nice indeed
04:44<andythenorth>better than a single tile windmill
04:44<andythenorth>I might add some other tile as well
04:45<andythenorth>it bothers me when the vehicle stations are many more tiles than the industry
04:47<@Alberth>nice change, makes it a whole new building
04:47<V453000>why does EVERYTHING in blender have to be so stupidly complicated
04:47<V453000>making a camera is rocket science
04:47<andythenorth>rocket science is not very hard
04:48<andythenorth>get a tube, fill with explodey stuff, light one end
04:48<andythenorth>stand back
04:48<andythenorth>jet engine science, that’s complicated
04:48<V453000>k :D
04:48<@Alberth>rofl!
04:50<andythenorth>V453000: still better than pixels, no?
04:50<V453000>well better
04:51-!-frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745881.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
04:51<V453000>it always has the 3D usefulness but mfhsdfuo
04:52<frosch123>hola
04:52<V453000>hi
05:02<@Alberth>hoi
05:03<Wolf01>o/
05:11<@planetmaker>\o
05:25<andythenorth>water wheel variant of windmill? o_O
05:29<argoneus>/o\
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05:38<frosch123>andythenorth: make a steampunk version of firs, and make windmills and watermills the default after 2050
05:39<frosch123>you never see industries only available in early years, better make them available again in the future :)
05:41<@Alberth>can't you just repeat history, say every 500 years? :)
05:46<andythenorth>civilisation cycle
05:46<andythenorth>who plays 500 years? :P
05:47<@Alberth>everybody that plays for a year with a single game? :)
05:47<@Alberth>bbl
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05:48<frosch123>andythenorth: it also solves the daylength problem :p
05:48<frosch123>you have 500 years time to build your network, before running 1st gen steam engines on them :p
05:48<andythenorth>ha
05:48<andythenorth>just reset the date
05:48<andythenorth>every 200 years
05:49<andythenorth>or run the clock backwards
05:49<andythenorth>“new engine available: slower and weaker than the current one"
05:59<andythenorth>hmm
05:59<andythenorth>industry fields via new objects? o_O
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07:49<andythenorth>o/
07:53<@Alberth>hi hi, made more nice buildings?
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08:00<frosch123>is there some kind of pretty-printer for json?
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>i would be really surprised if there wasn't
08:01<@Alberth>json.dump has an indent option or so
08:02<frosch123>i was hoping for some console tool :p
08:03<frosch123>json_pp
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>you should probably have specified the context, otherwise everybody is just replying for their favourite scripting language
08:06<frosch123>well, fuck dynamically typed languages
08:06<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phpsmwed5
08:06<frosch123>json_pp --json_opt=pretty < la_VA.json | less <- way shorter
08:07<@Alberth>:)
08:07<@Alberth>rewrite eints in java? :)
08:10<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pusuynbkl <- that's what i have so far
08:10<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwvmv5se7 <- but that is really not helpful
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>it says you're missing the acc(usative) case. what's confusing about that?
08:12<@Alberth>it's not supposed to be missing :p
08:12<frosch123>@kick Eddi|zuHause enjoy the sun :)
08:12-!-Eddi|zuHause was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [enjoy the sun :)]
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08:13<Eddi|zuHause>not a lot of sun right now
08:13<frosch123>that's only because i shut the blinds
08:24<frosch123>ah, "case"->"cases"
08:27<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plu1nyid8
08:27<frosch123>boom, oom, something is broken :p
08:29<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxg0yksi3 <- i made it more similar to the xml loader
08:29<frosch123>btw. why are they so different?
08:29<frosch123>i hoped for some base class, only replacing a few methods for xml/json
08:29<frosch123>but it looks like there is a _json function for every xml function, which is 50% the same
08:30<@Alberth>yep
08:30<@Alberth>and json{Saver,Loader} doesn't do shit
08:30<@Alberth>and Xml{Saver,Loader} isn't much about xml at all
08:31<frosch123>well, for now, this doesn't work
08:31<frosch123>i revert back to xml, so i can test my actual changes
08:36<@Alberth>you loaded all openttd languages?
08:36<frosch123>yes, i uploaded all, exit eints, and tried to restart
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08:55<andythenorth>with the huts? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7339/windmill_granary_5.png
08:56<andythenorth>or without? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png
08:56<andythenorth>I don’t like small industry layouts
08:57<supermop>ugh i just lost hours to this reddit server game
08:57<@Alberth>huts don't really fit the other buildings
08:57<@Alberth>supermop: good, openttd is working :)
08:58<andythenorth>I can change the hut style
08:58<supermop>how about you take over my company Alberth so i can make a late dinner?
08:58<@Alberth>sorry, I have other games to play
09:00<supermop>anyone else?
09:11<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/eints/ <- enable lang_sync to process unstable languages
09:11<frosch123>remove the language table from lang_sync and get it from eints
09:11<frosch123>and make lang_sync use the isocode as key for languages, instead of the grflangid
09:13<frosch123>oi, the example is wrong :p
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09:19<frosch123>updated 60
09:21<@Alberth>unstable addition needs manual update
09:22<frosch123>you mean the language definition?
09:23<@Alberth>oh, it has. nvm
09:23<@Alberth>ok, patch queue seems fine
09:23<frosch123>oh, you meant "the manual" :o
09:24<@Alberth>yes :)
09:25<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7340/windmill_granary_6.png
09:25<andythenorth>?
09:25<andythenorth>looks like a monastery? o_O
09:25*andythenorth wonders about just one tile of huts
09:26<frosch123>remove the southern house and make it just a dirt tile?
09:27<frosch123>or possibly the western tile
09:27<andythenorth>yeah
09:28<frosch123>well, you cannot put a heqs vehicle there :p
09:28*andythenorth wonders about 2x2 with a tile missing
09:28<andythenorth>weird though
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can just make a fenced grass tile.
09:30<@Alberth>move the small houses one tile to NW ?
09:30<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7341/windmill_granary_7.png
09:30<andythenorth>maybe some baseset trees? o_O
09:31<andythenorth>something company colour?
09:31<frosch123>no, trees are weird
09:31<frosch123>esp. if the normal trees are invisible
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>you really don't want trees near a windmill... they have a tendency to block the wind.
09:31<frosch123>some vehicles would be nice, but an empty tile also works, but maybe try it on the west side instead of south
09:32<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/graphics/industries/arable_farm_1.png
09:32<@Alberth>a dirt path on it?
09:32<andythenorth>cart, steam tractor with trailer
09:32<andythenorth>existing arable farm
09:32<andythenorth>?
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>full sentence?
09:33<frosch123>the cart could work
09:33<frosch123>but likely not centered on the tile :p
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/why-agile-and-especially-scrum-are-terrible/
09:33<@Alberth>I agree, cart looks better than tractor
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see how a windmill has need for a tractor
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe a small truck in later years
09:37*andythenorth wonders what version of scrum that guy was doing
09:38<nikow>e/win 16
09:38<nikow>sorry
09:39<supermop>goodnight all
09:40<Hiddenfunstuff>day nobody
09:40<supermop>if anyone wants to mess around with my company on reddit firs server have at it
09:40<supermop>small network of timetabled trains
09:40<supermop>password is 'mop'
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>nobody here plays the game.
09:41<supermop>damn it
09:42<andythenorth>nobody does scrum either
09:42<andythenorth>everybody does ‘scrumbut’
09:45<frosch123>i was once on a 3-people team, and we were asked to try this "scrum" thing
09:45<frosch123>then one of the 3 was assigned to some other project
09:45<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7342/windmill_granary_8.png
09:45<frosch123>we did not continue to try it with 2 people :p
09:46<frosch123>i would still put the vehicle on the west or east tile :p
09:46<frosch123>but looks good otherwise
09:47<frosch123>on the south tile it is too much exposed, which makes it look empty
09:47<andythenorth>there are limited options for combining windmill + other buildings
09:47<andythenorth>if the blades overlap roof areas of the other buildings, they’re hard to see
09:48<andythenorth>vehicle needs something drawn under it
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if the empty tile is always at the south, it looks not like a variation of the layout at all.
09:50<andythenorth>hmm, let’s try east
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>at least for me, the empty tile trumps every permutation of the other three buildings
09:51<andythenorth>these fast compiles are good eh? o_O
09:51<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7343/windmill_granary_9.png
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>that is much better
09:52<andythenorth>agreed
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>and now randomize the direction of the windmill based on local wind patterns :p
09:53*andythenorth needs a pleasing windmill sound effect :P
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>soomething wood-y?
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>modern wind power plants make a "fwoop" sound whenever a blade passes the pillar
09:55<@Alberth>woosh
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>dear cat. as adorable as you look sleeping with your feet up, i need this chair for sitting on, and you need to go away now.
09:58<andythenorth>get two chairs
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have two cats blocking both chairs then.
09:59<andythenorth>silos at the grain mill? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1149800#p1149800
10:01*andythenorth thinks yes http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Boston_Thompson's_Flour_Mill.jpg
10:03<frosch123>those silos look a lot more modern than the house
10:03<frosch123>so, no :p
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>the grain silos i know are nowhere near a mill...
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>silos work well as a station building, though.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>so, i'm also against this change.
10:06<frosch123>flour is also stored in silos
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10:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: have a flour silo explosion disaster ;)
10:12*andythenorth leaves silos out for now
10:13<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: compared to fluor?
10:14<frosch123>i would prefer a flour silo over a fluor silo
10:14<andythenorth>is fluor a cargo? :P
10:14*andythenorth doesn’t have enough cargo slots for it
10:15<andythenorth>we should raise the limit to 127
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11:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: quite probably :p
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no, i meant grain dust explosions...
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: as for fluor, maybe try one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckSoDW2-wrc ;)
11:16<frosch123>well, make sure the silo is either full, or very empty
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11:24*andythenorth considers playing a game
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12:00*andythenorth plays the game
12:02<@Alberth>:)
12:03<andythenorth>Busy Bee no less
12:03<@Alberth>makes sense
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13:05<andythenorth>eh
13:05<andythenorth>FIRS secondary processing
13:05<andythenorth>delivery window
13:05<andythenorth>30 days | 90 days | 365 days
13:05<andythenorth>parameter?
13:06<@Alberth>365 is a bit long?
13:07<andythenorth>180?
13:07<@Alberth>looks ok-ish to me :)
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14:03<andythenorth>hmm
14:04<andythenorth>think it’s harder to change than I hoped
14:04<andythenorth>eh nvm
14:07<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I pondered about that for FIRS long ago. I didn't find an appropriate solution beyond 1 month. Sadly, I have to say
14:08<andythenorth>the production code switches would need duplicated
14:08<andythenorth>and then switched depending on parameter
14:08<andythenorth>it’s a bit ugly
14:08<@planetmaker>yes... but a floating average is very difficult. You quickly run out of storage
14:09<andythenorth>maybe I just make the production window 60 days as a compromise
14:09<andythenorth>I want to relax the 30 day limit a little
14:09<andythenorth>eh, no, that still means changing all the switch code :P
14:09<andythenorth>nvm
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14:52<@Alberth>why period based?
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14:53<@Alberth>ie stored provided supplies up to some max, and slowly eat it
14:53<@Alberth>if 0, go back to original production
15:01<V453000>yay blender rendering set up :D
15:01<V453000>only took 120379 hours
15:02<@Alberth>@calc 120379 / 24 / 365
15:02<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 13.7418949772
15:02<@Alberth>ok :)
15:02<V453000>:)
15:05<@Alberth>but all blenders are go! great :)
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15:09<andythenorth>Alberth: secondary industry not primary ;)
15:10<@Alberth>hmm, what is the problem?
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15:10<andythenorth>production is combinatorial for most secondary industry
15:10<andythenorth>the ‘window’ is 30 days for delivering multiple cargos
15:11<andythenorth>or so
15:11<@Alberth>ok
15:12<@Alberth>so what happens if I deliver cargo A 5tonnes, and 10 days later cargo B 8 tonnes?
15:12<andythenorth>you get relatively more production from cargo B compared to the case where cargo A hadn’t been delivered
15:13<@Alberth>makes sense
15:15<@Alberth>so the problem is that window?
15:17<andythenorth>yup
15:18<andythenorth>actually I might have found it
15:18<andythenorth>PRODUCTION_SPAN
15:19<andythenorth>just replace that with a parameter, done
15:20<@Alberth>another problem solved :)
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15:23<andythenorth>there will be more ;)
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15:24<jottyfan>would like to understand the source code part of subsidies rejecting cargodist controlled cargo types, but cannot find that in wiki doc - and sources seem to be not that well documented... can anyone give me a little introduction please?
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15:27<frosch123>it's in economy.cpp
15:27<frosch123>and they are disabled because cdist might not route the cargo the way the subsidy requires it to go
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15:28<frosch123>nvm. it's actually in subsidy.cpp: SubsidyMonthlyLoop()
15:30<jottyfan>ok, I have a look...
15:33<jottyfan>found that function, but cannot find the check itself that disables the subsidy
15:33<@Alberth>find the commit, and look what changed?
15:33<jottyfan>but I don't know when the change happened
15:33<frosch123>jottyfan: settings_game.linkgraph.distribution*
15:33<jottyfan>seems to be years old
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15:34<frosch123>_settings_game.linkgraph.GetDistributionType
15:34<andythenorth>hmm this game is fun
15:34<@Alberth>@commit 25882
15:34<@DorpsGek>Alberth: Commit by fonsinchen :: r25882 trunk/src/subsidy.cpp (2013-10-19 13:17:29 +0200 )
15:34<@DorpsGek>Alberth: -Change [FS#5766]: Don't offer subsidies for auto-distributed cargo.
15:35<@Alberth>you can search commit log messages too :)
15:35<jottyfan>ah
15:35<jottyfan>r25882
15:35<@Alberth>or look at the commits that tocued the subsidy file
15:36<jottyfan>I was looking at the history of subsidy.cpp, but I just have missed that one...
15:37<jottyfan>so back to the question: the check to quit the subsidy is _settings_game.linkgraph.distribution_pax != DT_MANUAL
15:37<jottyfan>plus other checks != DT_MANUAL?
15:37<@Alberth>sounds right
15:38<frosch123>well, and GetDistributionType
15:38<frosch123>the other ones are only pre-tests whether there is *any* cargo which is not distributed
15:41<@Alberth>what are you aiming to do?
15:41<jottyfan>ok, thanks, that helped me a lot
15:41<jottyfan>I just like to remove these checks locally and find out what happens
15:41<jottyfan>I wonder why cargo dist should not accept subsidies
15:41<frosch123>you should read fs#5766 about that :)
15:41<@Alberth>FS#5766 happens :)
15:42<@Alberth>in short, cdist has no clue about subsidies
15:42<jottyfan>what is fs#5766? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=71214
15:42<frosch123>@bugs 5766
15:42<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Temporary Offline
15:42<frosch123>he
15:42<frosch123>@flyspray 5766
15:42<@Alberth>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5766
15:43<frosch123>it's @fs :/
15:43<jottyfan>yes, I've read this article also
15:44<jottyfan>but I wonder why a subsidy should not only work on direct routes
15:44<jottyfan>if it doesn't work on routes from a to c over b, I'd accept that
15:45<@Alberth>it's more that a subsidy from a to c doesn't work for a - c - b passengers
15:45<jottyfan>so if passengers from a to c get a subsidy, but passengers from a to b not, who cares?
15:46<frosch123>different people, different opinions :)
15:46<@Alberth> what about z - a - c - b from z to c ?
15:46<jottyfan>therefore, I can build my own trunc
15:47<jottyfan>ok, let's assume I have a cargodist good passengers
15:47<jottyfan>and have a network a - b - c - d
15:47<jottyfan>and get a subsidy from a to c
15:47<jottyfan>then, only passengers entering on a and quitting on c should get a bonus
15:48<jottyfan>passengers from b to c not, and passengers from a to d also not
15:49<@Alberth>well the reporter of FS#5766 had a different meaning
15:49<jottyfan>but at all, I'd also accept if that route would not work for that subsidy and only accept a train from a to c
15:49<@Alberth>both can be correct
15:50<jottyfan>yes
15:50<jottyfan>maybe, we've got two kinds of subsidies
15:51<@Alberth>who says there are only 2 solutions?
15:51<jottyfan>yes... who says...
15:51<jottyfan>but at least we have two
15:51<@Alberth>it needs a general solution that makes sense for everybody
15:51<@Alberth>we couldn't find one, and disabled subsidies
15:52<jottyfan>but - I really like cargodist, I think this is one of the best improvements compared to ttdx, but missing subsidies is a big step backwards
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15:53<jottyfan>why not let the player choose if he wants subsidies on cargodist enabled?
15:53<@Alberth>why do you want subsidies?
15:53<@planetmaker>offering an option which potentially won't work *will* result rightfully in complaints and bug reports
15:54<@planetmaker>thus shipping something which is broken by design is not a good solution
15:54<@Alberth>if it's only for making the connection, you may want to try busy bee instead
15:54<@planetmaker>I would recommend to people like you to use a game script to give you some goals for transport and stuff
15:54<@planetmaker>like busy bee :)
15:54<@Alberth>or hack a better one :)
15:55<@planetmaker>or extent busy bee :)
15:55<@Alberth>hmm, not sure how much room there is in BB
15:56<@Alberth>maybe it got cornered too much by being non-competitive
15:56<andythenorth>fork it!
15:56<@Alberth>BC! (bee competition)
15:56<frosch123>noone forked busybee, despite both authors constantly requesting it :p
15:56<@planetmaker>bee -> busy bee -> capitalism bee -> burnout bee :P
15:56<@Alberth>bummer, and that after we decided to use eints :(
15:57<frosch123>he, indeed, it took a hell of effort of the eints devs to convince the busybee devs
15:58<@planetmaker>:D
15:58<frosch123>jottyfan: sorry about the in-jokes btw :)
15:58<jottyfan>nevermind
15:58<jottyfan>had a phone call and need to understand the chat history
15:58<jottyfan>:-)
15:59<jottyfan>so what's busybee?
15:59<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/busy-bee-gs
15:59<@Alberth>a script giving you things to do
15:59<jottyfan>that's nice
16:00<jottyfan>this could replace subsidies?
16:00<@Alberth>it's also at bananas
16:00<@Alberth>well, it depends on how you see subsidies
16:00<frosch123>jottyfan: the hope is in general to move disputed things to scripts/newgrfs, so people can have whatever they want
16:00<@Alberth>BB doesn't give anything
16:00<jottyfan>let me call subsidies jobs with a reward
16:01<jottyfan>so if I can have goals without in game subsidies, that would be fine to me
16:01<@Alberth>the only reward it gives is a message "you won a goal"
16:01<jottyfan>the reward could be a sum of cash
16:01<@Alberth>yeah
16:01<@Alberth>so you have this zillion dollar company, and you need more?
16:02<jottyfan>no
16:02<jottyfan>I have a credit and get a reward to get money
16:02<@Alberth>k
16:02<@Alberth>in that case, BB wont' work
16:03<jottyfan>because of the reward?
16:03<frosch123>but you can also fork BB and add money rewards :)
16:03<@Alberth>yep
16:03<jottyfan>sounds nive
16:03<jottyfan>nice
16:03<jottyfan>I'll have a look, thanks for the hint!
16:04<@Alberth>yw, and publish it so we can play it too :)
16:18<jottyfan>of course
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16:29<andythenorth>will nmlc actually process #includes?
16:29<andythenorth>it seems to understand them somewhat when reporting errors
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16:46<frosch123>it processes the #line which are output by the preprocessor
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17:36<George>Hi.
17:36<George>According to https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6314
17:36<George>The NFO file was generated automatically from NML file
17:37<George>How to find coresponding line in NML for the NFO warning/error string?
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18:29<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 08 00:00:20 2015