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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-08

---Logopened Mon Jun 08 00:00:20 2015
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02:36<supermop>whoa i 'won' this game that i started last night
02:39<Supercheese>but... the only winning move is not to play! ;)
02:49<supermop>thats how i won!
02:49<supermop>i came back from hours of being away
02:49<supermop>and the newspaper thing was up with me as the top of the table in 2050
02:53<Supercheese>a winner is you
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03:18<supermop>now people are chatting about how jfk was a nazi so i think ill go ahead and leave the game
03:34<V453000>playing on dumb servers is not the best idea :P
03:37<Supercheese>the server isn't dumb, but rather the clientele
03:37<Supercheese>errr, present company excepted
03:41<V453000>the clientele is what make the server :)
03:53<supermop>anyway
03:58<supermop>hows it going?
04:04<V453000>yeah
04:04<V453000>busy weekend
04:05<V453000>but good
04:09<supermop>coo;
04:12<V453000>I added more wood types and got some errors in the renders, but that should be easy to solve; I should have time for it tomorrow
04:22<supermop>cool
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07:18<argoneus>good morning train amigos
07:21<V453000>wtf trainz
07:21<V453000>noep
07:27<supermop_>?
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08:10<Flygon><Flygon> I still find it incredible that VR's D-class locos (the 1902 ones) were able to hit 120km/h...
08:10<Flygon><Flygon> They go faster than N-classes are suppose to today @_@
08:11<Flygon>This book is amazing
08:16<Hiddenfunstuff>what book ar you reading?
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08:20<Flygon>Locomotives of Australia
08:20<Flygon>Sooo many photos that're impossible to find online
08:20<Flygon>And so much information that's impossible to find online
08:20<Flygon>If anyone's doing an Australian loco and can't find info, I'm happy to help
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10:35<@Alberth>moin
10:43<@planetmaker>o/
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10:47<Taede>ello
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10:57<@planetmaker>\o
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11:42<Elec_A>Hello, I have a question. Why openttd graphics do not improve ?
11:42<Hiddenfunstuff>there is no need for it?
11:43<Hiddenfunstuff>and the graphics would become a issue in longer games with couple thousand trains..
11:43<@planetmaker>Hello, I have an answer: they're good or no-one made them such that you consider them better as before. Maybe you give it a shot yourself? It's all open source and free and tools available, too
11:43<Hiddenfunstuff>*cough* co-op games *cough*
11:43<@planetmaker>Hiddenfunstuff, the graphics would not become an issue really... a bit more memory, but that works fine
11:44<@planetmaker>Elec_A, also it makes me wonder: which graphics *do* you use? There's 3 base sets and zillions of NewGRFs. So maybe you just do not use those which suit you better
11:45<Hiddenfunstuff>the very default graphics, are bad tbh
11:45<Elec_A>planetmaker: yes , you are right. as i know it is not possible to use as many as you want from NewGRFs graphics.
11:45<Hiddenfunstuff>but the OpenGFX or whatever it is called.. is good
11:45<@planetmaker>Hiddenfunstuff, but graphics are no problem for coop games. The crucial point for those large games is the game logic which scales badly , not graphics
11:45<Elec_A>it seems several newgrf conflict with each other.
11:46<@planetmaker>Elec_A, *that* was not what I was asking. And more NewGRFs don't give you better graphics, just more concurrent graphics styles, thus overall worse look
11:46<@planetmaker>and of course, NewGRFs do conflict. But that's not an issue either
11:47<Hiddenfunstuff>Well i happened to pop in one coop game and boy it killed my machine if you werent all the way zoomed in
11:47<@planetmaker>Hiddenfunstuff, yes, but that's not a graphics issue but a CPU issue. Thus game logic
11:48<Elec_A>planetmaker: I say if openttd graphics were like simcity4 (buildings , cars, roads , trees , ...). there won't be any other game that can compete Openttd .
11:48<Hiddenfunstuff>yeah
11:48<Elec_A>It would be the best game ever developed.
11:49<@planetmaker>Elec_A, so what's your point? What base set do you play with? Which NewGRF? Did you try zBase as base set? Did you ever use Pota-Ghat, Pineapple trains, rawr, egrvts2 as NewGRFs?
11:49<Elec_A>However, Openttd is not just a game :)
11:49<Elec_A>planetmaker: no , i have not tried them
11:49<@planetmaker>are you aware of the different styles of graphics available?
11:49<@planetmaker>so, please do.
11:50<Elec_A>planetmaker: sure, thank you . are there any wikis available online for them ?
11:50<@planetmaker>defaults for OpenTTD probably won't change. But there's others, and you just need to pick the ones you like
11:50<@planetmaker>they might come with a readme, readable from ingame? And / or link you to their online documentation
11:50<@planetmaker>that's what those buttons ingame are for :P
11:51<Elec_A>planetmaker: please suggest some right now. I think i will confuse if I want to try myself.
11:52<@planetmaker>https://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32_bpp_graphics maybe
11:52<@planetmaker>and those which I listed, I can recommend them all
11:53<@planetmaker>they don't conflict and they touch different areas
11:53<Elec_A>planetmaker: thank you ! :)
11:53<@planetmaker>welcome
11:56<@planetmaker>Elec_A, oh, search for yeti instead of rawr :)
11:56<Elec_A>planetmaker: Ok thanks again :)
11:58<Elec_A>planetmaker: there are two results for yeti , one is about 250 kb , and the other is about 180 Mb , which one is the one you mean ?
12:01<Taede>the 180mb one would be my guesss
12:01<Taede>hi-res gfx tend to take up space
12:02<Elec_A>Taede: Ok, I'll get that
12:03<@Alberth>and people wonder why their computer gets so slow :p
12:04<Elec_A>Alberth: what do you mean ?
12:04<Elec_A>I am doing wrong ?
12:05<@Alberth>@calc 180000 / 250
12:05<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 720
12:05<@Alberth>you're using 720 times as much data to display mostly the same information
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12:05<@Alberth>so your computer does 720 times as much work
12:06<@planetmaker>Elec_A, do not download manually. Use ingame content download
12:06<@planetmaker>each of those I listed is conveniently available
12:06<@Alberth>since computer speed is finite, you pay for that somewhere else
12:07<Elec_A>Alberth: oh yes, but if that does not cause any problem to game. I prefer to enjoy the game with higher graphics.
12:07<@Alberth>k
12:10<Elec_A>Alberth: and I think this is nothing for a core i7 CPU. ;)
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12:11<@Alberth>being optimistic is always good
12:12<Elec_A>:)
12:12<@Alberth>but it's very possible to hit the CPU limit with OpenTTD, even with original graphics
12:13<Elec_A>really ?! No way ! It seems impossible .
12:13<Elec_A>with 8 bpp graphics
12:13<V453000>:)
12:14<|Terkhen|>hello
12:14<@Alberth>Elec_A: graphics do take time, but it also has to compute where to display those graphics :)
12:15<@Alberth>hello, absolute terkhen
12:15<|Terkhen|>:P
12:16<|Terkhen|>my holiday absence must have made the bouncer forget about me
12:16<Celestar>you can run into the CPU limit without even with the null renderer :D
12:16<@Alberth>:)
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12:18<@Alberth>less absolute now :)
12:19<Terkhen>absolutism has never been my thing, yes :P
12:19<@Alberth>:D
12:19<@Alberth>how are you, busy with RL ?
12:19<Terkhen>yes, doing too many things at once, as usual :)
12:20<@Alberth>ah yes, me too :)
12:20<V453000>YO
12:21<@Alberth>there is too much fun stuff to look into, in the world
12:21<Terkhen>indeed :)
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12:55<@Alberth>quak
12:55<frosch123>hola
12:57<@Alberth>FS#6314 counts as NML bug?
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12:57<frosch123>the behaviour? certainly not
12:57<frosch123>about the warnings
12:58<frosch123>/!!Warning (109): Offset 22: Property 27 is previously defined at offset 7. <- likely a bug in the grf source, which nml does not complain about
12:58<frosch123>/!!Warning (113): All random options have the same ID. <- no error at all, but consequence of stupid newgrf specs
12:58<frosch123>/!!Warning (132): Offset 5: Parameter 8D out of valid range for variable 60. <- no error, but unmaintained nforenum
12:59<frosch123>/!!Error (85): This livery override action 3 does not follow a standard action 3. <- no idea, would have to look at the source :p
12:59<frosch123>but all of that is definitely unrelated the the loading issue
12:59<frosch123>possibly the loading_speed is set to zero or something silly :p
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>loading_speed defaults to 0 for new vehicles
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>so if you don't set it manually, it won't load anything
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>the default values might need reviewing at some point
13:08<@Alberth>nml shouldn't allow 0, imho
13:09<@Alberth>if you override, and return a wrong value, ok. But a literal 0 can't be right ever
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it shouldn't be NML's job, though. it should be in the GRF-Specs
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it should be openttd's job
13:10<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1628
13:10<@Alberth>grf-specs thus :p
13:10<@Alberth>as openttd follows grfspecs
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14:38<andythenorth>o/
14:40<@Alberth>moin
14:41<andythenorth>licenses
14:41<andythenorth>o what larks
14:41<@Alberth>forever a source of fun :p
14:42<@Alberth>how is the game?
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14:45<andythenorth>eh not bad
14:46<andythenorth>I have a 512x256 map
14:46<andythenorth>FIRS has only built 1 or so of each major processing industry
14:46<andythenorth>and the primaries are nicely distributed
14:47<andythenorth>the whole map will end up inter-connected
14:47<andythenorth>Busy Bee has mostly made good goal choices so far
14:47<andythenorth>although it is low-balling some goals
14:47<andythenorth>200 tonnes of coal is a single trainload :P
14:48<andythenorth>but 4,500 bags of mail to a tiny town seems excessive
14:48<andythenorth>that’s an English thousands-comma, not a decimal separator :P
14:50<@Alberth>hehe :)
14:50<@Alberth>it likes loads of mail and pax :p
14:51<@Alberth>I have been wondering whether to add a restriction for them
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14:58<andythenorth>are they just easily found?
14:58<andythenorth>compared to industries?
15:04<andythenorth>hmm
15:04<andythenorth>when new road vehicles arrive
15:04<andythenorth>do you just auto-replace all instances of the previous model?
15:06<@Alberth>BB first selects cargo randomly, ease of finding has no influence (unless other cargoes fail)
15:06<@Alberth>mostly I replace only when needed
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15:07<@Alberth>which is either when I need a little more power, or when models become unavailable
15:07<andythenorth>it seems really boring to just upgrade all
15:07<andythenorth>it’s rote
15:07<andythenorth>I don’t upgrade all planes or trains or boats
15:07<@Alberth>I can't be bothered to setup groups and routes
15:07<andythenorth>me neither
15:08<andythenorth>it’s one of the things that makes RVs relatively bland I think
15:08<@Alberth>I hardly play with RV
15:08<@Alberth>only when it's ridiculously near by
15:08<@Alberth>or with pax
15:08<@Alberth>in a city center
15:09<andythenorth>I am missing HEQS in this game
15:10<andythenorth>trucks are more useful when they are ~100t
15:10<andythenorth>Road Hog has few of those, at least in the Brit roster
15:17<V453000>I like how all of blender controls have to be completely different to any other software I have used :D
15:21<frosch123>what colour do they have?
15:21<V453000>yes
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15:38<Wolf01>hi hi o/
15:38<frosch123>ciao
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15:47<andythenorth>eh
15:47<andythenorth>anyone want to make the FIRS production window a parameter? o_O
15:47*andythenorth is all coded-out on FIRS right now :P
15:47<andythenorth>it’s a bit of action 14, and changing a switch
15:48<andythenorth>and switching strings appropriately in industry window
15:51<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvcvuh3rq <- see, i still have that paste :p
15:52<andythenorth>keep that handy
15:52<andythenorth>this is for secondary production though
15:52<andythenorth>;)
15:52<andythenorth>I want a 90 day window
15:52<andythenorth>I am hauling about 400 tiles
15:52<andythenorth>this is not Just In Time delivery :P
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16:31<andythenorth>what’s the maximum range for routing trains?
16:33<frosch123>what's a maximum range?
16:33<frosch123>only planes have a maximum range
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16:36<andythenorth>got some trains won’t route to far away stations
16:37<frosch123>wrong railtype?
16:37<andythenorth>they indicate the next destination correctly, but they’re stuck going in and out of depots
16:37<andythenorth>probably signals
16:37<frosch123>do they need to reverse in stations?
16:37<andythenorth>maybe a bad one way somewhere
16:38<andythenorth>no reversing
16:40<Terkhen>good night
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18:37<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 09 00:00:22 2015