| --- | Log | opened Tue Jun 16 00:00:31 2015 |
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| 03:10 | <supermop> | hello |
| 03:11 | <__ln__> | how do you do |
| 03:25 | <Supercheese> | Man, I am terrible at shovel knight |
| 03:25 | <Supercheese> | died like twenty times on the first boss knight |
| 03:28 | <supermop> | i want all of this stuff: |
| 03:28 | <supermop> | http://www.tama-monorail.co.jp/fan/goods.html |
| 03:29 | <supermop> | espescially the hat which seems to have nothing to do with the monorail |
| 03:29 | <supermop> | beyond being orange |
| 03:31 | <supermop> | what is shovel knight, Supercheese ? |
| 03:32 | <Supercheese> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shovel_Knight |
| 03:33 | <Supercheese> | I am incredibly bad at it, but the music is excellent |
| 03:35 | <Supercheese> | I'll probably just download the soundtrack, I lack the patience to complete the game |
| 03:44 | <V453000> | :D monorail accessories |
| 03:45 | <JezK> | we killed our monorail because it was useless. are there any monorails in the world that are actually good? |
| 03:47 | <Supercheese> | define "good" |
| 03:47 | <supermop> | as in make money? yes |
| 03:47 | <JezK> | useful? efficient? etc |
| 03:47 | <Supercheese> | efficient, definitely not |
| 03:47 | <__ln__> | JezK: the one in disneyland? |
| 03:47 | <Supercheese> | convenient? perhaps |
| 03:47 | <supermop> | idk are there any trains in the world that are good JezK ? |
| 03:48 | <supermop> | what do you mean by efficient? |
| 03:49 | <JezK> | well i've used lots of great train systems that get me places i want to go, quickly (some not so quickly). i don't know of any monorail systems that do that, but i am inexperienced in the ways of monorails |
| 03:50 | <supermop> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing_Rail_Transit |
| 03:50 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
| 03:50 | <Supercheese> | well, the monorails I am aware of have a captive audience (Disney, Vegas, Seattle) so they are indeed the most convenient, but that's because there are few or no alternatives |
| 03:50 | <@planetmaker> | JezK, yes, they exist |
| 03:51 | <@planetmaker> | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertaler_Schwebebahn for instance |
| 03:51 | <JezK> | interesting |
| 03:51 | <JezK> | i just assumed they were all useless novelty systems like the sydney one |
| 03:51 | <supermop> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_Monorail |
| 03:52 | <@planetmaker> | it's 114 years old now :) |
| 03:52 | <JezK> | oh i was in osaka but didn't see the monorail |
| 03:52 | <supermop> | before Chongqing, Osaka was probably the most 'conventionally successful' |
| 03:52 | <JezK> | i'll have to go back |
| 03:52 | <supermop> | in terms of being a heavily used piece of transit |
| 03:53 | <supermop> | its really just a question of situation |
| 03:53 | <supermop> | if you build a monorail for a use that is better suited to a train or bus, of course it will not be ideal |
| 03:53 | <supermop> | but there are certain niche cases where it is the best option |
| 03:54 | <supermop> | and if you build a monorail for a use that does not warrant any rapid transit, of course it will fail |
| 03:55 | <JezK> | our one was very slow, expensive and didn't go anywhere people wanted to go that they couldn't get to easier by other means |
| 03:56 | <JezK> | that german one looks good |
| 03:56 | <JezK> | i think i recall seeing it in a film |
| 03:57 | <supermop> | it's been it at east one film that i know of |
| 03:58 | <supermop> | but yeah, if you build any type of transit system you need to provide a reason to use it |
| 03:59 | <supermop> | if none exists, you can plan new development around the line, or use it to relieve congestion on an existing system |
| 03:59 | <supermop> | but if you just build it and let it be it is going to fail |
| 04:01 | <supermop> | most dismantled monorails were built as novelty rides for an expo or park etc, and closed once the novelty wore off |
| 04:02 | <supermop> | Osaka is missing out on the monorail hat game |
| 04:03 | <supermop> | no online store on the osaka monorail website |
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| 04:12 | <supermop> | this monorail has beer party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitakyushu_Monorail |
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| 06:52 | <swirrel> | is there a grf that enables tunnel crossing or is that only possible by cheatmode? |
| 06:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that is a cheat |
| 06:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if it's already a cheat, why would it be available as a non-cheat? |
| 06:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "i know murder is a crime. is there a way i can murder without it being a crime?" |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | so it could be enabled in multiplayer without giving players the option to use the other cheats |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | you don't make a lot of sense |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | but nice eristic dialectic |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | and a bit of ignorance over what i want to achieve |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | ^ |
| 06:55 | <swirrel> | next please one that involves nazi germany |
| 06:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as a german, i am conditioned to avoid those :p |
| 06:56 | <swirrel> | ich als deutscher habe viel spass dran |
| 06:56 | <swirrel> | mal ganz ehrlich |
| 06:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, you can enable cheats in multiplayer, if you enable them in single player, and then load that game in multiplayer |
| 06:56 | <swirrel> | but you see my point now, right? i want to use tunnelcrossings in multiplayer |
| 06:56 | <swirrel> | it would be nice for the reddit servers, especially s2 |
| 06:57 | <swirrel> | and that would preventplayers from using them? |
| 06:57 | <swirrel> | but keep the cross flag on? |
| 06:57 | <swirrel> | that would be a nice workaround |
| 06:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but there is no guarantee that it won't desync |
| 06:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as that is largely untested, i presume |
| 06:58 | <swirrel> | hmmm i'll try it and google if there might be a patch (meh that wouldn't be a solution anyway^^) |
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| 07:12 | <@planetmaker> | swirrel, the reddit server 2 uses anyway a patched client and server. So there's no point in not patching... |
| 07:13 | <@planetmaker> | but you lost your argument... you invoked godwin's law. |
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| 07:16 | <swirrel> | no you don't lose by arbitrary arguments |
| 07:16 | <swirrel> | i made a point |
| 07:16 | <swirrel> | afterwards he was helpful |
| 07:16 | <swirrel> | so i was absolutely successful with my line of argumentation |
| 07:16 | <swirrel> | to get and convey what i want |
| 07:17 | <swirrel> | and you ought to know that his eristic dialectic was about equivalent to godwin's law |
| 07:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you know that godwins law is not actually a law. more like an observation |
| 07:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | like moores law |
| 07:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there are probably plenty of examples that violate the "law" |
| 07:19 | <swirrel> | the argument is called godwin's law, beside it being an observation by godwin |
| 07:19 | <swirrel> | a redherring isn't a fish either |
| 07:20 | <swirrel> | and a circlejerk isn't a group of people wanking each other off |
| 07:20 | <swirrel> | but they both can be |
| 07:20 | <EXetoC> | no? ok |
| 07:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | tbh, i never figured out the meaning of either of those words |
| 07:21 | <swirrel> | the latter is circular logic in a group and a red herring is a smoke screen "nebelkerze" something like that |
| 07:21 | <swirrel> | schopenhauer wrote a good book on dialectic if it's interests anyone |
| 07:22 | <swirrel> | and in nature herrings aren't red, at least not on the outside |
| 07:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they're not? why are they covered in red then when i open the can? :p |
| 07:24 | <swirrel> | it's not the tomato sauce |
| 07:24 | <swirrel> | it's that it may contain peanuts |
| 07:24 | <swirrel> | ^^ |
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| 07:40 | <@planetmaker> | swirrel, you're drawing wrong conclusions. It definitely was not your somewhat pathetic attitude which triggered Eddi|zuHause to be helpful. Rather in spite of and that you explained your point a bit more along the way |
| 07:40 | <@planetmaker> | so please watch your manners in this channel. I find it borderline. No need to insult people here, ok? |
| 07:40 | <swirrel> | lol |
| 07:40 | <swirrel> | don't be angry |
| 07:40 | <swirrel> | ^^ |
| 07:41 | <@planetmaker> | I'm not angry. I'm amazed or astonished |
| 07:41 | <swirrel> | okay |
| 07:42 | <swirrel> | and i didn't insult people, only you did that btw |
| 07:43 | <swirrel> | that's why i assumed you are angry |
| 07:43 | * | lastmikoi shrugs |
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| 08:40 | <V453000> | I think tunnel crossings work in multiplayer, we tried |
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| 09:10 | <peter1138> | Would they not? |
| 09:11 | <peter1138> | i mean, once enabled |
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| 09:52 | <V453000> | without desyncs is the key part :P |
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| 11:01 | <andythenorth> | this looks awesome |
| 11:01 | <andythenorth> | http://www.tt-ms.de/about/ttops11.png |
| 11:01 | <andythenorth> | we should convert the game to that |
| 11:02 | <andythenorth> | but maybe using voxels |
| 11:03 | <@planetmaker> | yes yes. We should start now :) |
| 11:03 | <@planetmaker> | good evening :) |
| 11:03 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
| 11:03 | * | andythenorth likes it |
| 11:04 | <andythenorth> | I would draw textures all day for pasting onto cubes |
| 11:04 | <andythenorth> | happily |
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| 11:07 | <peter1138> | Tunnel entrances are a bit naff. |
| 11:08 | <andythenorth> | hovercraft is worse :D |
| 11:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | everything about this screenshot is terrible... |
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| 11:09 | <peter1138> | Seems to be sinking... |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: the palette is nice, no? |
| 11:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | everything about this screenshot is terrible... |
| 11:12 | <andythenorth> | he ;) |
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| 11:26 | <@Alberth> | looks like blocky to me, except my blocky was about industries :) |
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| 11:57 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
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| 12:47 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
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| 13:42 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 13:43 | <fdelapena> | hey |
| 14:02 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 14:11 | <frosch123> | moving to cambridge? |
| 14:15 | * | andythenorth is stuck in tedious over-thinking phase of set design :( |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | bored |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7351/road-hog-meh.png |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | should I just remove the mining trucks? |
| 14:16 | <frosch123> | different graphics for light and heavy cargo is good :) |
| 14:16 | <frosch123> | but you can also change them on refit ofc |
| 14:17 | <frosch123> | though i thought refits are unpopular :p |
| 14:22 | <andythenorth> | somehow RVs are harder to design a set for than trains :P |
| 14:22 | <andythenorth> | trains, you add a small number of engines matching different niches |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | and in Iron Horse, adding more (and more) wagon types doesn’t seem to have any downsides |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | I dunno |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | I’m only adding the mining trucks because I think they’re cool |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | no gameplay purpose |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | I think that’s the problem, they are crippled in gameplay |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | just multiply their capacity by 10 |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | rv need very little space, so you could try to make that a selling point over trains |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | the problem is they’re slow |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | so on any non-dedicated route |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | they block all other trucks |
| 14:26 | <frosch123> | ah, right, you refuse to build feeders |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | nah |
| 14:26 | <frosch123> | well, rv are for case where you station walk :p |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | but I don’t isolate road networks |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | but ~all the trucks in Road Hog are articulated |
| 14:27 | <andythenorth> | so the mining trucks reduce network speed |
| 14:27 | <andythenorth> | so I could give them unrealistic top speed |
| 14:27 | <andythenorth> | or delete them |
| 14:28 | <fdelapena> | bitcoin mining trucks should reduce cpu speed |
| 14:28 | <frosch123> | well, "slow+high capacity" and "fast+low capacity" are normal things |
| 14:28 | <frosch123> | if you make all vehicles the same, you remove the purpose for all of them |
| 14:28 | <@Alberth> | except 1 :) |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | well |
| 14:28 | <andythenorth> | then it’s just about graphics |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | in some ways, a lot of Iron Horse works that way |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | there are two freight wagon speeds, and matched engines |
| 14:29 | <frosch123> | sounds like regearing :p |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | so you just choose the wagons that look nice for your cargo |
| 14:29 | <frosch123> | one vehicle, different graphics for cargos, and subtypes for fast/slow :p |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | this conversation probably ends up at ‘roadtypes’ :P |
| 14:31 | <andythenorth> | let’s shortcut :D |
| 14:31 | <andythenorth> | can haz roadtypes? |
| 14:32 | <frosch123> | we need no roadtypes, we only need to allow colouring every tile and vehicle individually |
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| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | well I could cheat the speed |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | irl it’s 41mph for this one |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/off-highway-trucks/18265926.html |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | currently in-game it’s 50mph |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | but Iron Horse cheats freight speeds by up to 100% |
| 14:36 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | also I’ve cheated the capacity _down_ below RL on that truck, for some reason :P |
| 14:39 | <andythenorth> | eh seriously over-thinking it |
| 14:39 | <andythenorth> | the other trucks are already 10 or 20mph above any legal limit :P |
| 14:40 | <andythenorth> | the top-end has to be faked, so that there can be progression in mid-game |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | think that solves it |
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| 15:27 | <djdave> | boo |
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| 15:30 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ |
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| 15:44 | <djdave> | !ping |
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| 15:47 | <fdelapena> | pong |
| 15:48 | <frosch123> | dropsgek uses @ :) so |
| 15:48 | <frosch123> | @ping |
| 15:48 | <@DorpsGek> | pong |
| 15:49 | <fdelapena> | humans are not fast with this :D |
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| 16:20 | <djdave> | understood. |
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| 17:43 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 23:21 | <supermop_> | yo Pikka |
| 23:22 | <supermop_> | why is the total power of a rake of EMUs in ukrs2 lower than the sum of powers of each unit? |
| 23:22 | <Pikka> | some kind of "realism", I don't know |
| 23:23 | <Pikka> | it probably seemed like a good idea at the time :) |
| 23:24 | <supermop_> | i kind of get the notion that maybe 8 motor cars can't draw enough current |
| 23:24 | <supermop_> | but then my class 91 shouldn't be able to draw enough either? |
| 23:25 | <Pikka> | like I said, seemed like a good idea at the time. :) UKRS is silly. |
| 23:25 | <supermop_> | trying to figure out whether to replace a fleet of 4 tile AL1 hauled trains with 321s |
| 23:25 | <supermop_> | do the EMUs load faster? |
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| 23:46 | <Pikka> | I don't remember. probably. |
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| 23:49 | <supermop_> | cascading all of these guys is a bit of a mess |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Jun 17 00:00:33 2015 |
