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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-16

---Logopened Tue Jun 16 00:00:31 2015
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03:10<supermop>hello
03:11<__ln__>how do you do
03:25<Supercheese>Man, I am terrible at shovel knight
03:25<Supercheese>died like twenty times on the first boss knight
03:28<supermop>i want all of this stuff:
03:28<supermop>http://www.tama-monorail.co.jp/fan/goods.html
03:29<supermop>espescially the hat which seems to have nothing to do with the monorail
03:29<supermop>beyond being orange
03:31<supermop>what is shovel knight, Supercheese ?
03:32<Supercheese>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shovel_Knight
03:33<Supercheese>I am incredibly bad at it, but the music is excellent
03:35<Supercheese>I'll probably just download the soundtrack, I lack the patience to complete the game
03:44<V453000>:D monorail accessories
03:45<JezK>we killed our monorail because it was useless. are there any monorails in the world that are actually good?
03:47<Supercheese>define "good"
03:47<supermop>as in make money? yes
03:47<JezK>useful? efficient? etc
03:47<Supercheese>efficient, definitely not
03:47<__ln__>JezK: the one in disneyland?
03:47<Supercheese>convenient? perhaps
03:47<supermop>idk are there any trains in the world that are good JezK ?
03:48<supermop>what do you mean by efficient?
03:49<JezK>well i've used lots of great train systems that get me places i want to go, quickly (some not so quickly). i don't know of any monorail systems that do that, but i am inexperienced in the ways of monorails
03:50<supermop>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing_Rail_Transit
03:50<@planetmaker>moin
03:50<Supercheese>well, the monorails I am aware of have a captive audience (Disney, Vegas, Seattle) so they are indeed the most convenient, but that's because there are few or no alternatives
03:50<@planetmaker>JezK, yes, they exist
03:51<@planetmaker>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertaler_Schwebebahn for instance
03:51<JezK>interesting
03:51<JezK>i just assumed they were all useless novelty systems like the sydney one
03:51<supermop>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_Monorail
03:52<@planetmaker>it's 114 years old now :)
03:52<JezK>oh i was in osaka but didn't see the monorail
03:52<supermop>before Chongqing, Osaka was probably the most 'conventionally successful'
03:52<JezK>i'll have to go back
03:52<supermop>in terms of being a heavily used piece of transit
03:53<supermop>its really just a question of situation
03:53<supermop>if you build a monorail for a use that is better suited to a train or bus, of course it will not be ideal
03:53<supermop>but there are certain niche cases where it is the best option
03:54<supermop>and if you build a monorail for a use that does not warrant any rapid transit, of course it will fail
03:55<JezK>our one was very slow, expensive and didn't go anywhere people wanted to go that they couldn't get to easier by other means
03:56<JezK>that german one looks good
03:56<JezK>i think i recall seeing it in a film
03:57<supermop>it's been it at east one film that i know of
03:58<supermop>but yeah, if you build any type of transit system you need to provide a reason to use it
03:59<supermop>if none exists, you can plan new development around the line, or use it to relieve congestion on an existing system
03:59<supermop>but if you just build it and let it be it is going to fail
04:01<supermop>most dismantled monorails were built as novelty rides for an expo or park etc, and closed once the novelty wore off
04:02<supermop>Osaka is missing out on the monorail hat game
04:03<supermop>no online store on the osaka monorail website
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04:12<supermop>this monorail has beer party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitakyushu_Monorail
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06:52<swirrel>is there a grf that enables tunnel crossing or is that only possible by cheatmode?
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>that is a cheat
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>if it's already a cheat, why would it be available as a non-cheat?
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>"i know murder is a crime. is there a way i can murder without it being a crime?"
06:55<swirrel>so it could be enabled in multiplayer without giving players the option to use the other cheats
06:55<swirrel>you don't make a lot of sense
06:55<swirrel>but nice eristic dialectic
06:55<swirrel>and a bit of ignorance over what i want to achieve
06:55<swirrel>^
06:55<swirrel>next please one that involves nazi germany
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>as a german, i am conditioned to avoid those :p
06:56<swirrel>ich als deutscher habe viel spass dran
06:56<swirrel>mal ganz ehrlich
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, you can enable cheats in multiplayer, if you enable them in single player, and then load that game in multiplayer
06:56<swirrel>but you see my point now, right? i want to use tunnelcrossings in multiplayer
06:56<swirrel>it would be nice for the reddit servers, especially s2
06:57<swirrel>and that would preventplayers from using them?
06:57<swirrel>but keep the cross flag on?
06:57<swirrel>that would be a nice workaround
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>but there is no guarantee that it won't desync
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>as that is largely untested, i presume
06:58<swirrel>hmmm i'll try it and google if there might be a patch (meh that wouldn't be a solution anyway^^)
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07:12<@planetmaker>swirrel, the reddit server 2 uses anyway a patched client and server. So there's no point in not patching...
07:13<@planetmaker>but you lost your argument... you invoked godwin's law.
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07:16<swirrel>no you don't lose by arbitrary arguments
07:16<swirrel>i made a point
07:16<swirrel>afterwards he was helpful
07:16<swirrel>so i was absolutely successful with my line of argumentation
07:16<swirrel>to get and convey what i want
07:17<swirrel>and you ought to know that his eristic dialectic was about equivalent to godwin's law
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>you know that godwins law is not actually a law. more like an observation
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>like moores law
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>there are probably plenty of examples that violate the "law"
07:19<swirrel>the argument is called godwin's law, beside it being an observation by godwin
07:19<swirrel>a redherring isn't a fish either
07:20<swirrel>and a circlejerk isn't a group of people wanking each other off
07:20<swirrel>but they both can be
07:20<EXetoC>no? ok
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>tbh, i never figured out the meaning of either of those words
07:21<swirrel>the latter is circular logic in a group and a red herring is a smoke screen "nebelkerze" something like that
07:21<swirrel>schopenhauer wrote a good book on dialectic if it's interests anyone
07:22<swirrel>and in nature herrings aren't red, at least not on the outside
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>they're not? why are they covered in red then when i open the can? :p
07:24<swirrel>it's not the tomato sauce
07:24<swirrel>it's that it may contain peanuts
07:24<swirrel>^^
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07:40<@planetmaker>swirrel, you're drawing wrong conclusions. It definitely was not your somewhat pathetic attitude which triggered Eddi|zuHause to be helpful. Rather in spite of and that you explained your point a bit more along the way
07:40<@planetmaker>so please watch your manners in this channel. I find it borderline. No need to insult people here, ok?
07:40<swirrel>lol
07:40<swirrel>don't be angry
07:40<swirrel>^^
07:41<@planetmaker>I'm not angry. I'm amazed or astonished
07:41<swirrel>okay
07:42<swirrel>and i didn't insult people, only you did that btw
07:43<swirrel>that's why i assumed you are angry
07:43*lastmikoi shrugs
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08:40<V453000>I think tunnel crossings work in multiplayer, we tried
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09:10<peter1138>Would they not?
09:11<peter1138>i mean, once enabled
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09:52<V453000>without desyncs is the key part :P
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11:01<andythenorth>this looks awesome
11:01<andythenorth>http://www.tt-ms.de/about/ttops11.png
11:01<andythenorth>we should convert the game to that
11:02<andythenorth>but maybe using voxels
11:03<@planetmaker>yes yes. We should start now :)
11:03<@planetmaker>good evening :)
11:03<@Alberth>o/
11:03*andythenorth likes it
11:04<andythenorth>I would draw textures all day for pasting onto cubes
11:04<andythenorth>happily
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11:07<peter1138>Tunnel entrances are a bit naff.
11:08<andythenorth>hovercraft is worse :D
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>everything about this screenshot is terrible...
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11:09<peter1138>Seems to be sinking...
11:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the palette is nice, no?
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>everything about this screenshot is terrible...
11:12<andythenorth>he ;)
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11:26<@Alberth>looks like blocky to me, except my blocky was about industries :)
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11:57<@Alberth>o/
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13:42<Wolf01>o/
13:43<fdelapena>hey
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14:05<andythenorth>hmm
14:11<frosch123>moving to cambridge?
14:15*andythenorth is stuck in tedious over-thinking phase of set design :(
14:15<andythenorth>bored
14:15<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7351/road-hog-meh.png
14:15<andythenorth>should I just remove the mining trucks?
14:16<frosch123>different graphics for light and heavy cargo is good :)
14:16<frosch123>but you can also change them on refit ofc
14:17<frosch123>though i thought refits are unpopular :p
14:22<andythenorth>somehow RVs are harder to design a set for than trains :P
14:22<andythenorth>trains, you add a small number of engines matching different niches
14:23<andythenorth>and in Iron Horse, adding more (and more) wagon types doesn’t seem to have any downsides
14:23<andythenorth>I dunno
14:23<andythenorth>I’m only adding the mining trucks because I think they’re cool
14:23<andythenorth>no gameplay purpose
14:23<andythenorth>I think that’s the problem, they are crippled in gameplay
14:24<frosch123>just multiply their capacity by 10
14:25<frosch123>rv need very little space, so you could try to make that a selling point over trains
14:26<andythenorth>the problem is they’re slow
14:26<andythenorth>so on any non-dedicated route
14:26<andythenorth>they block all other trucks
14:26<frosch123>ah, right, you refuse to build feeders
14:26<andythenorth>nah
14:26<frosch123>well, rv are for case where you station walk :p
14:26<andythenorth>but I don’t isolate road networks
14:26<andythenorth>but ~all the trucks in Road Hog are articulated
14:27<andythenorth>so the mining trucks reduce network speed
14:27<andythenorth>so I could give them unrealistic top speed
14:27<andythenorth>or delete them
14:28<fdelapena>bitcoin mining trucks should reduce cpu speed
14:28<frosch123>well, "slow+high capacity" and "fast+low capacity" are normal things
14:28<frosch123>if you make all vehicles the same, you remove the purpose for all of them
14:28<@Alberth>except 1 :)
14:28<andythenorth>well
14:28<andythenorth>then it’s just about graphics
14:29<andythenorth>in some ways, a lot of Iron Horse works that way
14:29<andythenorth>there are two freight wagon speeds, and matched engines
14:29<frosch123>sounds like regearing :p
14:29<andythenorth>so you just choose the wagons that look nice for your cargo
14:29<frosch123>one vehicle, different graphics for cargos, and subtypes for fast/slow :p
14:29<andythenorth>this conversation probably ends up at ‘roadtypes’ :P
14:31<andythenorth>let’s shortcut :D
14:31<andythenorth>can haz roadtypes?
14:32<frosch123>we need no roadtypes, we only need to allow colouring every tile and vehicle individually
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14:36<andythenorth>well I could cheat the speed
14:36<andythenorth>irl it’s 41mph for this one
14:36<andythenorth>http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/off-highway-trucks/18265926.html
14:36<andythenorth>currently in-game it’s 50mph
14:36<andythenorth>but Iron Horse cheats freight speeds by up to 100%
14:36<andythenorth>:P
14:37<andythenorth>also I’ve cheated the capacity _down_ below RL on that truck, for some reason :P
14:39<andythenorth>eh seriously over-thinking it
14:39<andythenorth>the other trucks are already 10 or 20mph above any legal limit :P
14:40<andythenorth>the top-end has to be faked, so that there can be progression in mid-game
14:47<andythenorth>thanks
14:47<andythenorth>think that solves it
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15:27<djdave>boo
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15:44<djdave>!ping
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15:47<fdelapena>pong
15:48<frosch123>dropsgek uses @ :) so
15:48<frosch123>@ping
15:48<@DorpsGek>pong
15:49<fdelapena>humans are not fast with this :D
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16:20<djdave>understood.
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17:43<Wolf01>'night
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23:21<supermop_>yo Pikka
23:22<supermop_>why is the total power of a rake of EMUs in ukrs2 lower than the sum of powers of each unit?
23:22<Pikka>some kind of "realism", I don't know
23:23<Pikka>it probably seemed like a good idea at the time :)
23:24<supermop_>i kind of get the notion that maybe 8 motor cars can't draw enough current
23:24<supermop_>but then my class 91 shouldn't be able to draw enough either?
23:25<Pikka>like I said, seemed like a good idea at the time. :) UKRS is silly.
23:25<supermop_>trying to figure out whether to replace a fleet of 4 tile AL1 hauled trains with 321s
23:25<supermop_>do the EMUs load faster?
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23:46<Pikka>I don't remember. probably.
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23:49<supermop_>cascading all of these guys is a bit of a mess
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 17 00:00:33 2015