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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-20

---Logopened Sat Jun 20 00:00:37 2015
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02:35<andythenorth>o/
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02:46<andythenorth>Pikka bonjour
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02:52<@Alberth>bonjour
03:00<andythenorth>hmm
03:01<andythenorth>my previous favourite vehicle set has 15 different box truck models
03:01<andythenorth>and 16 different mail trucks
03:11<andythenorth>hmm
03:11<andythenorth>1x GUI zoom is bonkers
03:11<andythenorth>hwo did I ever use it?
03:11<andythenorth>otoh, the vehicle sprites look way better in the buy menu at 1x :P
03:19<@Alberth>bigger GUI is just waste of screen space imho :)
03:20<andythenorth>my eyes can’t see the small things any more :P
03:20<andythenorth>also
03:20<andythenorth>1990 (with vehicle expiry on)
03:20<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7354/roadh_hog_with_expiry.png
03:20<andythenorth>too many vehicles?
03:35<supermop>seems fine
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03:47<@Alberth>that's why I added 'hide' buttons :)
03:50<andythenorth>24 trucks
03:50<andythenorth>default temperate climate has 20 at same point in time
03:51*andythenorth not sure what the problem is
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04:01<andythenorth>yair, so what stops us doing RoadTypes?
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04:11<@Alberth>don't know
04:11<@Alberth>is there a newgrf spec?
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04:11<@Alberth>if yes, is there a c++ patch?
04:11<@Alberth>hmm, maybe first, is some dev convinced there is a need?
04:13<andythenorth>I think the last reason
04:13<andythenorth>need / benefit / interesting project
04:13<andythenorth>we have tried to spec it n times
04:14<andythenorth>also
04:15<andythenorth>V453000: will your trucks be RVs, or trains?
04:16<V453000>sup
04:16<V453000>RVs
04:16<andythenorth>thought you hated RVs?
04:16<@Alberth>hmm, truck trains :p
04:16<V453000>yeah but wanted to model them
04:16*andythenorth considers doing RH as trains
04:16<andythenorth>making RVs trains might be what players want
04:16<andythenorth>signals
04:16<andythenorth>road(rail)types
04:16<V453000>I remembered what were the features, I basically just wanted parameters for purchase menu lists - you would either have 4 vehicles available (with refit, random colour), or separated by colour so you could buy individual colour, or separated by cargo, or by vehicle generations
04:17<andythenorth>more varety for stations
04:17<andythenorth>variety *
04:17<@Alberth>bbl
04:17<andythenorth>diagonal roads
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04:17<andythenorth>highways
04:18*andythenorth also bbls
04:18<andythenorth>this is probably a good plan though
04:18<andythenorth>I’ll have to change all the offsets though :(
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04:34<Terkhen>hello
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04:58<Wolf01>moin
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06:22*andythenorth converts all RVs to trains
06:23<andythenorth>how can I teach towns to build a raltype instead of road?
06:23<andythenorth>railtype *
06:23<@Alberth>very very tricky, probably
06:23<andythenorth>also newgrf spec needs to change
06:24<andythenorth>there are some tile checks which can check landscape type and get road
06:24<andythenorth>but they need to get the railtype instead
06:26<@Alberth>currently you cannot even use any rail tracks than your own
06:26<@Alberth>so town built road would be unusable
06:27<andythenorth>merge infrastructure sharing?
06:27<@Alberth>something in that direction would be required indeed
06:29<andythenorth>might be worth it
06:29<andythenorth>it does get us roadtypes for free
06:30<@Alberth>what is the point exactly about road types?
06:31<@Alberth>just more forms of road?
06:32<andythenorth>same as railtypes
06:32<andythenorth>more forms of route
06:32<andythenorth>choosing route type is interesting
06:32<andythenorth>choosing vehicle type is mostly boring
06:32<andythenorth>mostly, the type of route chosen should entail the type of vehicles you get
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06:34<andythenorth>FWIW, I want to add ‘haul roads’
06:34<andythenorth>which are incompatible with normal roads
06:34<andythenorth>and have to be fitted into the landscape
06:35<@Alberth>tbh I don't understand more railtypes either, I'd want less railtypes rather than more :)
06:36<@Alberth>canal wouldn't work I guess as it has no 'direction'?
06:39<@Alberth>but yeah, I can see having different forms of road could be nice to have
06:40<@Alberth>just copy railtypes over to road?
06:45<andythenorth>there is some spec problem
06:45<andythenorth>oh yeah, railtypes aren’t combinable
06:45<andythenorth>but apparently roadtypes have to be
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06:47<@Alberth>if you want common infra structure, as eg built by towns, that would be quite useful
06:47<@Alberth>hoi
06:47<andythenorth>quak quak
06:49<frosch123>moin
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>one of the proposed spec ideas had the notion that each tile has one "road-like" [e.g. cobblestone, asphalt] and one "tram-like" [e.g. trolleybus] roadtype on each tile
06:50<frosch123>damn, why did i join? :p
06:50<@Alberth>why do road types need to be combinable, you'd just list the types with each vehicle?
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06:50*andythenorth wonders if “tram-like” is why this got stuck
06:50<Pikka>and what a terribly overcomplicated proposal that was, Eddi
06:51<andythenorth>we broke frosch :(
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>where the "tram-like" type can define whether it can be combined with a road [tram], must be combined with a road [trolleybus] or can't be combined with a road [metro]
06:51<andythenorth>seems even more complicated than railtypes
06:51<andythenorth>tbh, as a newgrf author I don’t understand railtypes
06:51<andythenorth>somebody else (foobar) set it up for me
06:52<andythenorth>it seems to need reading pages of spec and discussion
06:52<andythenorth>compatibility and such
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i rather think it doesn't go far enough
06:52<andythenorth>speed limits, axle loadings, powered, unpowered
06:52<@Alberth>of course, lots of bike shedding to do here andy
06:52*andythenorth would just have one roadtype per tile
06:52<andythenorth>end of
06:52<Pikka>doesn't it Eddi? what else do you think it needs?
06:53<@Alberth>number of sharp objects at this part, chance of puncture
06:53*andythenorth wants “if you want to use these vehicles you’re going to have find space on your map for a new route"
06:53<andythenorth>skid risk, chance of flying stones, maximum axle weight
06:54<andythenorth>number of squirrels per tile
06:54<andythenorth>chance of hitting a deer or a roo
06:54<Pikka>single-layer roadtype. build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road, cache the roadtype of the surrounding 4 tiles to do grf-magic for different roadtype intersections.
06:54<andythenorth>“this truck has an axle loading of 22t, and roo bars”
06:54<Pikka>that's the only sensible way to make it work imo
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you can't cross a trolleybus route with a tram route with this spec
06:54<andythenorth>so don't
06:54<andythenorth>:P
06:54<Pikka>you can with mine :)
06:55<andythenorth>you can’t build a ng track piece on the same tile as a standard gauge piece
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you run out of roadtypes with your spec :p
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: michi_cc had a patch for that
06:55<andythenorth>meh, I don’t think it’s needed
06:56<andythenorth>same as diagonal bridges and tunnels, overkill
06:56<Pikka>road... hell, 8 flavours of road. tram with road, tram without road, trolleybus... I'm struggling to run out of roadtypes. :)
06:56<andythenorth>road, haul road, tramway, electic tramway
06:57<@Alberth>high way
06:57<andythenorth>over-rated
06:57<andythenorth>speed limits on the route is a dumb idea
06:57<@Alberth>yeah, sure, just look at the screenshot forum :)
06:57<andythenorth>it’s why all the railtype grfs seem so stupid
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think highway or avenues have a place in this game, but they should be independent from roadtypes. they behave more like objects (with a state machine)
06:57<andythenorth>+1
06:57<Pikka>speed limits by different road surfaces if you must... still doesn't run out of roadtypes any time soon, if you have 16.
06:57<andythenorth>the problem is overtaking
06:57<andythenorth>nothing to do with roadtype
06:58<andythenorth>(for highways)
06:58<Pikka>better overtaking behaviour on one-way roads, perhaps?
06:58<andythenorth>new state machine
06:58<andythenorth>orthogonal to roadtypes
06:59<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: road decorations by foobar for example? would be nice if you can really drive of them
06:59<@Alberth>*over
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, something like that
06:59<andythenorth>remove trams
06:59<andythenorth>then it’s easier
06:59<Pikka>trams are the problem, for sure
06:59<andythenorth>trams are a problem
06:59<Pikka>get rid of them, or rather reinstate them with the new roadtype spec
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>trams are great
07:00<Pikka>trams are great but the current implentation is terrible
07:00<andythenorth>railtypes don’t have the tram problem
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>how would a different implementation not be terrible?
07:00<Pikka>they should be like railtypes
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>how so?
07:01<Pikka>all roadtypes created equal, not a half-baked special case for tramlines
07:01<andythenorth>‘narrow gauge with maglev'
07:01<andythenorth>would have worked excellently :P
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i'm not getting your point
07:02<andythenorth>all the types have to be combinable with trams
07:02<andythenorth>which makes it insane
07:02<Pikka>and then people are (quite reasonably) going to want different kinds of tram lines too
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>you can easily make a flag "can't be combined with tram"
07:03<Pikka>but tram shouldn't be a special case
07:03<andythenorth>no
07:03<Pikka>it should just become another roadtype
07:03<andythenorth>it’s dumb
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: that makes it terrible and cumbersome to add tram to existing road
07:03<Pikka>about as difficult as electrifying a railway line
07:03<andythenorth>well
07:03<Pikka>convert tool, drag
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>run tram over competitors road? never.
07:04<andythenorth>perhaps electrifying should be done separate to railtype?
07:04<Pikka>"build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road"
07:04<andythenorth>maybe railtypes is wrong?
07:04<andythenorth>ho
07:04<andythenorth>split the build tools?
07:04<andythenorth>‘build road'
07:04<Pikka>if we hadn't had fudgey trams we could have had roadtypes not long after railtypes, I reckon
07:04<andythenorth>‘build tramway'
07:05<andythenorth>‘tramway cannot be built here'
07:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27300 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 13:05:11 +0200 )
07:05<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6306]: Silence GCC warning (Cif)
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i think the existance of trams easily trumps the benefits of roadtypes
07:06*andythenorth thinks they should have been split
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>i'll trade the current system of road+tram over a hacked "road with embedded tram" implemented as roadtype
07:06<andythenorth>they’re different transport types that behave differently
07:06<andythenorth>roadtypes, tramtypes
07:07<andythenorth>one roadtype per tile, which may or may not be over-built with tramtype
07:07<andythenorth>it’s weird, but all the other ways are insane
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>that is exactly the proposal i'm talking about.
07:08<andythenorth>trams are fundamentally different: they move differently, and they require a closed loop system
07:09<andythenorth>that closed loop system could incidentally be used for pipelines as hax
07:09<andythenorth>but that’s not relevant :P
07:10<Pikka>alright
07:10<andythenorth>to me the missing part in past discussion is the idea of splitting the build tool
07:10<Pikka>let's do it then :D
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>sure, get frosch to do it :p
07:11<andythenorth>is spec? o_O
07:12<Pikka>very
07:12<Pikka>someone should write one
07:13<andythenorth>I don’t understand all the compatibility crap
07:13<andythenorth>also my spec would rule out axle weight limits, co-efficient of friction on road surface,
07:13<andythenorth>etc
07:14<andythenorth>might keep “number of roos per tile” though
07:14<Pikka>friction might be nice
07:14<Pikka>exle weight limits is dumb
07:14<Pikka>actually friction might be boring
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>axle weight can be implicit info like with railtypes
07:14<andythenorth>speed limits?
07:14<andythenorth>speed limits are stupid
07:14<Pikka>yes
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>speed limits, and a flag that town can't grow along highspeed roads
07:15<andythenorth>or haul roads :P
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand your haul roads
07:16<Pikka>flag for towns will grow, flag for towns will build
07:16<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_11AT4m2M
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i mean, i don't understand the gameplay value
07:17<andythenorth>high capacity trucks
07:17<andythenorth>but slower
07:17<andythenorth>it’s niche, like narrow gauge trains
07:17<andythenorth>or metro
07:17<andythenorth>incompatible with other roadtypes, so you have to fit it into the landscape
07:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27301 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 13:28:25 +0200 )
07:28<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Modifying timetable times or speeds always confirmed all pre-estimated values.
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07:42<andythenorth>Pikka: so one roadtype and one tramtype per tile, and if the graphics for that look awful, that’s just tough?
07:42<Pikka>well, having unified roadtypes might reduce the awfulness... but I guess so.
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>the next problem was finding enough bits on rail crossings to store all that
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>that is an implementation problem, but the spec might need to consider that
07:47<andythenorth>I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building
07:52<andythenorth>how is tram<->road compatibility determined?
07:52<andythenorth>compatible AND compatible?
07:52<andythenorth>both types must agree?
07:53<Pikka>I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building <- there's only one roadtype per tile, making junctions look nice would be up to the newgrf. but if we're seperating them it's moot
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: making junctions look nice with combined types would be horrible. imagine cobblestone, asphalt, cobblestone+tram, asphalt+tram. you have already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction
07:55<andythenorth>maybe I miss something :)
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07:56*andythenorth must to looking after children
07:56<andythenorth>bbl
07:56<andythenorth>roadtypes or die
07:56<Pikka>eddi: having a combined-tram-and-every-roadsurface roadtype is a sensible idea?
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07:57<Pikka>and no, you don't "already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction". These wouldn't be difficult tests at all.
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: the tram is an overlay (like it is now) and the transparency takes care of the road surfaces
07:57<Pikka>yes
07:57<Pikka>if we're going with the seperate layers idea, which apparently we are :)
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you have to keep in mind that you can't assume you know all roadtypes currently active. they might come from a different grf
07:58<Pikka>no, but if there's one roadtype per tile you know all the roadtypes on this tile
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe we're talking about completely different things :p
07:58<Pikka>possibly
07:59<Pikka>anyway, a new spec with seperate tramlines
07:59<Pikka>sounds easy enough
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>specs always sound easy, until you get to all the corner cases :p
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>like the current trams lack an underlay for rail crossings without road
08:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27302 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:04:30 +0200 )
08:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Updating timetables need to check the timetable flags from the real order instead of from a copy. (marcole)
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08:23<Pikka>that's why you keep it simple, Eddi
08:23<Pikka>and treat "realism" as a dirty word :)
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08:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27303 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2015-06-20 14:29:36 +0200 )
08:29<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6321]: SetMinimalSize was ignored for WWT_EDITBOX.
08:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27304 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:30:10 +0200 )
08:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6321-ish]: Improve password window layout for big font sizes.
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08:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27305 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:40:04 +0200 )
08:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6320]: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad.
08:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27306 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:55:17 +0200 )
08:55<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27305): Confused tiles.
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i try to avoid the word "realism", because using it triggers all sorts of unwanted reactions
08:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27307 trunk/src/error_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:57:34 +0200 )
08:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6259]: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom. (Johnnei)
09:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27308 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-20 15:11:09 +0200 )
09:11<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6283]: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces. (adf88)
09:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27309 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 15:15:35 +0200 )
09:15<@DorpsGek>-Change [FS#6283]: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings. (adf88)
09:23<peter1138>Spam ;(
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09:42<@planetmaker>ah, there the spammer quaks^Wcomes :)
09:43<frosch123>is it safe again? :)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>only if you start implementing the results of our discussion :p
09:44<frosch123>can i kick you for every line i write?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>if that helps you... :p
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10:45<andythenorth>frosch123: this is not a safe space
10:45<andythenorth>you may find triggers here
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11:09<andythenorth>hmm
11:09<andythenorth>trams ignore one way
11:09<andythenorth>probably correct
11:09<@Alberth>only when they enter from the wrong side :p
11:10<Hiddenfunstuff>umm how the tram tracks would work as one way way
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11:21<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8bihm3u0/utk84y/raw
11:21<andythenorth>my typos are appalling :P
11:22<andythenorth>I swear they get worse
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11:45<@Alberth>how is the UI relevant?
11:52<andythenorth>it’s how my brain works
11:52<andythenorth>it’s a distraction though
11:53<andythenorth>I design specs by “what does the user click on”
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11:55<andythenorth>there’s hardly any spec here yet
11:57<andythenorth>previous attempt at roadtypes (2012) https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyhavke97
11:58<andythenorth>level crossings might be a problem
12:00<andythenorth>only 8 bits free
12:00<andythenorth>13 needed
12:01<@Alberth>that sounds like a problem :p
12:01<andythenorth>are tramways shared currently?
12:02<andythenorth>I can’t figure out how to get 2 companies in my game for testing :P
12:02<@Alberth>cheat to another company?
12:02<@Alberth>maybe you need to add a competitor?
12:02<andythenorth>yes
12:02<@Alberth>start_ai :)
12:03<andythenorth>yeah, tramways are shared
12:05<@Alberth>makes sense
12:06<andythenorth>presumably a crossing needs fewer bits for road pieces
12:06<andythenorth>as there must always be 2, orthogonal to the rail track
12:07<andythenorth>so the presence of a railtype on the tile means that the road piece bits aren’t needed at all
12:07<andythenorth>unless the RV pathfinder relies on reading them
12:07<andythenorth>so much andythenorth doesn’t understand :P
12:08<@Alberth>if so, RV pathfinder is fixable, I'd say
12:08<andythenorth>crossings are a mess anyway :P
12:08<andythenorth>I tried fixing them once
12:08<andythenorth>they draw road pieces under trams, and iirc they have some dubious behaviour with/without railtypes
12:09<andythenorth>can tramways cross rail anyway?
12:09<@Alberth>don't know
12:11<andythenorth>http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/22699-level-crossing-of-tram-railway/page-2
12:11<andythenorth>the foamers do :)
12:14<@Alberth>of course, they just copy reality :)
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sure, tram crossing rail is done all the time
12:16<andythenorth>not sure how many bits we need, but one solution would be to disallow traim-rail crossings
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>tram crossing electric rail is a bit more complicated, but it's done also occasionally
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that is a horrible gameplay restriction
12:17<andythenorth>there’s probably a better way
12:17<andythenorth>but crossings are blearch
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: did that paste consider the new map structure since heightlevels? it may have few more bits
12:18<andythenorth>no
12:18<andythenorth>I am just reading some old one I have
12:19<andythenorth>we didn’t think crossings would be a problem in 2012
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>i'm quite certain "we" did :p
12:19<andythenorth>when the proposed spec was two types per tile, and each type provided an (optional) composite of road, rail, catenary
12:22<andythenorth>to put it another way, nothing was written down about it :P
12:32<andythenorth>looks like owner is already handled on level crossings for roadtype 0 and 1
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but a) there is no way currently to have tram without road, and b) the roadtype must be stored additionally
12:34<andythenorth>according to this old spec I am looking at, there are 5 bits free
12:34<andythenorth>where do I find the up-do-date version?
12:34<andythenorth>must be in svn somewhere
12:34*andythenorth looks
12:34<andythenorth>got it
12:34<andythenorth>http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape_grid.html;hb=HEAD
12:37<andythenorth>roadtype needs 4 bytes?
12:39<andythenorth>4 bits :P
12:40*andythenorth is an idiot
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>you need 4 bit for the roadtype and 4 bit for the tramtype
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>m4 seems to be available? it says "inherit", but the one above is all free
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13:09<andythenorth>think m4 is used for landscape
13:09<andythenorth>inherits from the rail bits for m4?
13:09<andythenorth>http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape.html;hb=HEAD
13:35<andythenorth>m7 7 and 6 would become available?
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13:36<andythenorth>(present road types)
13:37<andythenorth>there are 8 bits free at crossings anyway
13:37<andythenorth>should be enough
13:39<andythenorth>owner seems to be already known everywhere
13:40<andythenorth>and there’s a cunning hack on roadtype 1 (tram) - towns don’t build trams, so OWNER_NONE is stored as OWNER_TOWN :P
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27310 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-20 19:45:17 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 79 changes by eirik174
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13:50<andythenorth>just 8 roadtypes and 8 tramtypes? o_O
13:50<andythenorth>only 3 bits each, leaves some free for unknown future
13:56<peter1138>Who cares? Nobody is going to code it.
13:57<andythenorth>that’s what they said about...
13:57*andythenorth thinks of something
13:57<andythenorth>dunno
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14:07<andythenorth>eh, how hard can it be?
14:07*andythenorth wonders
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14:55<frosch123>pff, how do you search for / with vi? :p
14:55<@Alberth> /\/
14:56<@Alberth>ie escape the character :)
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15:01<frosch123>does it mean anything if firefox show stuff in red in the source view?
15:02<andythenorth>in html?
15:02<frosch123>yes
15:02<frosch123>and how the hell does class="clearfix" work?
15:03<andythenorth>bootstrap magic
15:03<andythenorth>red is a syntax error
15:03<andythenorth>is it on the doctype?
15:03<frosch123>no it is on various closing tags
15:04<andythenorth>can I see this page somehow?
15:04<frosch123>and also on some singular tags like <p />
15:04<frosch123>eints string edit page
15:04<andythenorth><p /> is nonsense :)
15:04<frosch123>it created some vertical space
15:05<frosch123><div class="clearfix" /> <- the "/" is also red there
15:05<frosch123>and sometimes the clearfix works, and sometimes it does not
15:05<andythenorth>depends on preceeding content
15:05<andythenorth>if there’s no float, then clearfix won’t do much
15:05<andythenorth>dunno why firefox doesn’t like self-closed divs
15:05*andythenorth checks spec
15:07<Sylf>div is a container
15:07<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/eints_clearfix.png <- the string edit page *sometimes* has issues if the control-label is too long
15:07<Sylf>so it should have some kind of content
15:07<andythenorth>yeah invalid if self-closed
15:07<Sylf>s*
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15:08<andythenorth>I could fix eints :P
15:08<andythenorth>I probably didn’t validate it
15:10<andythenorth>frosch123: file a ticket if you want :)
15:10<andythenorth>then remind me ;)
15:22<frosch123>got rid of the red by trial and error
15:23<frosch123><input class="btn btn-primary pull-right" type="submit" value="Save Changes & Get Next String"/> <- well except there
15:23<frosch123>the & is red
15:23<frosch123>hmm, actually it's a different shade of red
15:23<frosch123>so, i guess that is for escapes :)
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15:40<andythenorth>it probably hates the escape in the value
15:40<andythenorth>it shouldn’t
15:40<andythenorth>yeah actually probably just a different escape
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16:04<andythenorth>we’re using eints to translate trunk too? o_O
16:05*andythenorth should improve the skin
16:19<frosch123>not yet, but soon
16:30<andythenorth>hmm
16:30<andythenorth>this game is getting boring now
16:30<andythenorth>not enough different types of transport
16:32<frosch123>want to add bucket brigades?
16:33<andythenorth>conveyors? o_O
16:34<frosch123>play factorio then
16:34<andythenorth>also I’m accidentally playing ‘daylength'
16:34<andythenorth>because Iron Horse and Road Hog have nothing new after 2000 or so
16:34<andythenorth>and it’s 2020
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18:21<Wolf01>'night
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19:11<Gantradies>test
19:11<Gantradies>hey, i need some server admin techsupport
19:11<Gantradies>haveing port/ gateway adress issues
19:12<Gantradies>to quote my syadmin:
19:12<Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
19:13<Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
19:13<Gantradies>ok, what? one sec
19:13<Gantradies>heres the other part I don't have any firewall rules setup on the main Gateway address becuase its bad practice. so in short i'm not but in the mean time look up how to change the (my server is really at this address) setting
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19:25<Gantradies>anyone here?
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19:44<Eddi|zuHause>Gantradies: you can bind to a specific IP in the .cfg or from the command line
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that applies to your problem, though
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20:30<Gantradies>im not an expert on network, but by sysadmin said its something to do with the gateway not using a default ip
20:31<Gantradies>basically, teh console session keeps listing errors claiming teh ADvertiseing port isnt open, and my admin insists it is
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22:16<Gantradies>*sigh* noone able to help?
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22:57<Gantradies>anotherr check, anoyne up for hlaping me with a netweork issues with my server?
22:57<Gantradies>soemtihng aobut it having issues with the gateway adress
23:01<mari_kiri>Gantradies: What OS does your server run and is it a VPS?
23:01<mari_kiri>Also I think the longest I've had to wait on IRC to get a question answered was about 24 hours
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23:12<Gantradies>LOL
23:12<Gantradies> its win7 VM i believe
23:13<Gantradies>win7 professional
23:13<Gantradies>sorry ofr teh slow response kiri
23:14<Gantradies>its saying it needs port 3979 forewarded on tcp and UDP even othugh it allready is
23:18<Gantradies>my clans sysadmin said that its an issue with the game having issues finding the gateway adress, i believe
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23:25<Gantradies>*sigh*
23:42<mari_kiri>Gantradies: Can we assume that you have DHCP set up properly?
23:42<mari_kiri>Also I can't really help much with Windows networking
23:51<Gantradies> yeah, admin's been owrking in it since i could barely walk >.<
23:54<Gantradies>if im remembering his explanation right, the issue is the gateway isnt using the default IP, and the game isnt realising this ( im running it in dedicated mode)
23:58<ST2>Gantradies: are ports set on router to redirect to computer where server is set?
---Logclosed Sun Jun 21 00:00:38 2015