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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-06-23

---Logopened Tue Jun 23 00:00:41 2015
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06:34<supermop>yo
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07:05<V453000>sup
07:10<supermop>just ate some pho
07:10<__ln__>pho..ne?
07:15<supermop>pho ga
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07:48<supermop>someone want to play cooperatively?
07:49<Pokka>never!
07:49-!-Pokka is now known as Pikka
07:50<supermop>someone want to play acrimoniously?
07:53<andythenorth>bonjour
07:53<@planetmaker>now I need a dictionary
07:53<@planetmaker>bonjour
07:53<Pikka>bonsoir
07:54<@planetmaker>never, supermop ! ;)
07:54<Pikka>andythenorth, turns out that recolour masks aren't that hard. but still look a bit ugly :)
07:54*andythenorth suppresses flippant answers to that :P
07:54<andythenorth>too ugly to ship
07:54<andythenorth>?
07:54<Pikka>well
07:54<Pikka>fairly necessary for the base set
07:55<supermop>little shunter thing looked good Pikka
07:55<Pikka>too ugly to stop doing seperate sprites for each livery in my newgrfs, I think. :)
07:56<Pikka>it's had a few refinements since then, un-cc'd the headlight, made the mask a bit lighter. It's looking good enough (tm).
07:56<andythenorth>\o/
07:56<Pikka>not sure what to do with the steamers
07:56<Pikka>not sure if there's a better option than unmoving connecting rods
07:59<supermop>base set cannot be animated?
08:00<supermop>sounds like that should be fixed
08:00<Pikka>I'm not sure if it can. I suppose I could try.
08:01<Pikka>Base sets can't do anything that would potentially desync, but I don't know if OpenTTD does any checking on them to limit what you can do, planetmaker?
08:02<Pikka>"This file can also contain some other NewGRF actions, as long as they are static and do not change game properties (1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, C, 10, 12, possibly some static features from 0 and 2)." is what the OpenTTD wiki says.
08:03<supermop>patch the game so default trains are animated?
08:04<Pikka>if you can do anything that doesn't change vehicle speeds/stats/etc, there's a *lot* you could add to a base set... any cosmetic vehicle change, different train end cars, gear up and down sprites for planes, etc.
08:05<@planetmaker>Pikka, I'm not entirely sure if there's a hard limit as in what they can actually do in their 'extra' grf
08:05<@planetmaker>i.e. I'm not sure whether it's enforced... in case of doubt it should. Except for water :D
08:05<supermop>the TTD extra sprites could just reuse the same sprites for each frame?
08:06<Pikka>are you talking about "patch the game so default trains are animated?"? So not happening. :P
08:07<@planetmaker>Pikka, using proper action2 etc for vehicles in the extra grf would definitely break in some way. At least other NewGRFs
08:07<Pikka>fair enough
08:07<Pikka>static wheels it is :)
08:07-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:07<@planetmaker>Not sure whether you would simply define new vehicles (as a normal NewGRF does) or rewrite the default ones
08:08<Pikka>I'm not sure "rewriting the default ones" is even possible any more.
08:08<@planetmaker>Pikka, that problem is actually why OpenGFX+ NewGRFs do exist - so that the base set can remain compatible to all newgrfs
08:08<Pikka>yeah
08:09<Pikka>okay, Pineapple Base+ newgrfs for animated wheels. Or just Pineapple Trains. :P
08:09<@planetmaker>I tried to put as much in OpenGFX itself... but yeah, vehicles and industries and airports - even their ground awareness - not possible :(
08:09<@planetmaker>:)
08:11<supermop>why couldn't the game be patched to add trams to default vehicles?
08:12<andythenorth>because it’s not TTD
08:12<supermop>not saying it should be
08:12<supermop>but just wondering
08:12<andythenorth>the game has to stay true to TTD
08:12<Pikka>it probably could, someone would need to make some default trams though :)
08:12<andythenorth>there are no trams in TTD
08:12<andythenorth>also, there might be newgrfs which depend on the absence of trams
08:12<andythenorth>they might be broken by the introduction of trams
08:12<andythenorth>it’s a change of API
08:13<Pikka>there are no supercolossal airports in TTD either
08:13<andythenorth>but there are in TTDPatch
08:13<andythenorth>which is the same thing
08:13<andythenorth>TTDPatch does not have default trams
08:14*andythenorth _might_ have had too much coffee
08:14<Pikka>maybe
08:14<Pikka>I don't see how a newgrf could rely on an absence of trams ;)
08:15<Pikka>it can't prevent other grfs from adding trams, apart from anything else
08:15<andythenorth>engine pool remains a bug, remember?
08:15*andythenorth is not being helpful
08:15<andythenorth>I would put andythenorth on /ignore tbh
08:16*andythenorth changes andythenorth into a better person
08:17<@planetmaker>supermop, yes and no. Generally NewGRFs rely on the fact that they can disable the default vehicles. If we add more default vehicles, we'd implicitly break all those
08:17<Pikka>that's true...
08:17<@planetmaker>Similarily they can rely on a default vehicle having those specific stats and just change a part of them. Thus changing stats would break those
08:18<andythenorth>also we should remove trams so we can do roadtypes
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08:19<supermop>well thats the thing that's odd to me - the game doesn't really have a good built in concept of roadtypes, but sort-of has tramway built in
08:19*andythenorth goes back to making up truck names
08:19<supermop>albeit without the trams
08:19<supermop>seems like either tramways should be removed from base sets, or trams added to them
08:19<@planetmaker>I still do have the idea of a set of default NewGRFs, each aimed for a specific feature (like trams, RV, trains, industries, airports, tracks, objects) which would ship with the game. And which would de-activate (by default) when the user loads another NewGRF touching their realm
08:19<andythenorth>+1
08:20<supermop>if the + newgrfs can be added by default (and on servers by extension) that would be neat
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08:34<supermop>need to write some kind of about page for myself
08:34<supermop>looking for a way to put off doing that
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08:53<argoneus>oh planetmaker
08:53<argoneus>:D
08:53<@planetmaker>I knew I knew that nick :P
09:02<V453000>wat iz happening
09:03<andythenorth>catz
09:03<V453000>yetiz
09:03<andythenorth>slugz
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09:20<supermop>later
09:21<argoneus>I just noticed
09:21<argoneus>I accidentally had my private key in authorized_keys on a vps
09:21<argoneus>jesus christ
09:21<argoneus>time to generate a new one
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09:28-!-supermop [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:31<@planetmaker>hehe
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09:32<SpComb>the private key isn't even a single line :P
09:32<SpComb>but using `scp .ssh/id_rsa foo.bar:.ssh/authorized_keys` to deploy your ssh keys is indeed a very bad idea :P
09:32<SpComb>although, as long as your private key is encrypted, it's not toooooo bad
09:33<SpComb>and it is passphrase-protected with you using ssh-agent, right? :)
09:34<@planetmaker>:D
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09:35<@planetmaker>SpComb, but why not scp the key such way (except that one should not overwrite the authorized keys file but amend)?
09:35<SpComb>'cause there's ssh-copy-id
09:35<SpComb>and it's way too easy to typo .ssh/id_rsa vs .ssh/id_rsa.pub if using tab-completion
09:36<@planetmaker>true
09:58<argoneus>nginx is pretty cool :O
09:58<argoneus>making custom configs is pretty graceful
09:59<argoneus>like serving a specific file to be text
09:59<argoneus>http://argoneus.com/authorized_keys
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10:28*Sacro starts factorising argoneus' keys
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10:49<argoneus>Sacro: it's only 2048bits
10:49<argoneus>you might be done before you die
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11:00<@Alberth>hi hi
11:02<@planetmaker>o/
11:05<Sacro>argoneus: 2048 secure bits?
11:05<argoneus>what's a secure bit
11:09<Sacro>If I told you it wouldn't be secure
11:12<@Alberth>you know that security by obscurity doesn't work, right?
11:13<argoneus>Alberth: what is your opinion on changing the ssh port
11:13<argoneus>it stops a lot of bots, doesn't it?
11:13<argoneus>who portscan random ips
11:14<@Alberth>it stops bots?
11:15<@Alberth>they'd just scan anyway, wouldn't they?
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12:28*andythenorth builds an 8-tile Alcohol pipeline
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12:54<@planetmaker>argoneus, different ssh port doesn't stop much
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13:10<andythenorth>quak
13:11<frosch123>moin
13:12<@planetmaker>moin :)
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13:19<andythenorth>finally
13:19<andythenorth>a new industry set
13:19<andythenorth>maybe this won’t be rubbish
13:28<V453000>onwards to yeti 0.2.0 too :P
13:28<V453000>moar stuf
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13:38<@Alberth>hi andy, V, planetmak3r, and fr0sch
13:38<@Alberth>at least you can blame someone else if it's rubbish :)
13:44<andythenorth>nice highlight avoidance :P
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13:47<frosch123>leaving is also a type of highlight avoidance :p
13:48<@Alberth>:)
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14:04<Eddi|zuHause>said the guy who joined, read one line of dialog, said "oh my god" and turned around immediately :p
14:04<frosch123>i think it was an excellent choice
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14:13<Wolf01>hi o/
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14:16<@Alberth>hi hi
14:25<V453000>:)
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17:00<luaduck>Just checking, are plane crashes default on or off?
17:07<Rejf>luaduck: "on" and crash occurence is set to "normal"
17:07<luaduck>huh, interesting
17:07<luaduck>our server was set to off
17:08<luaduck>must have been another op
17:08<Taede>check gamelogs for rcon?
17:08<Taede>if you're bothered enough that is
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18:05<Wolf01>'night
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20:22<supermop>hi
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 24 00:00:42 2015