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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-04

---Logopened Sat Jul 04 00:00:55 2015
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01:17<@Alberth>moin
01:22<Markk>Moin.
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02:04<Supercheese>"Parent scopt for this feature not available" blaah
02:04<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch says I can do it
02:05<Supercheese>FEAT_AIRPORTTILES > PARENT > Airport
02:05*Supercheese blames NML
02:10<Supercheese>soo do the specs lie? or does NML's parser lie?
02:10<Supercheese>they cannot both be correct
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02:20<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2 feature 11 has no related object
02:21<Supercheese>hmm
02:21<Supercheese>specs may be lying then
02:21<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch directly contradicts that page
02:21<Supercheese>says feature 11 has Airport as related
02:21<Supercheese>which would be 0D it seems
02:22<Supercheese>but NML itself does not think there is a related object either
02:22<@Alberth>above you speak of tiles
02:23<@Alberth>X and X_tiles are different things
02:23<Supercheese>indeed
02:23<@Alberth>industries have a similar confusion
02:23<Supercheese>I was hoping feature 11 had feature 0D as related object
02:23<Supercheese>but that may not be the case
02:23<@Alberth>yeah, would make sense, imho
02:24<@Alberth>newgrfspecs say 'no', and they are defining :)
02:24<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch needs editing then
02:24<@Alberth>yeah I wonder how you can find who added it
02:25<Supercheese>the history is truncated
02:25<Supercheese>odd
02:27<@Alberth>foobar seems to have added it from an ancient nml version, perhaps by reverse engineering from the nml source
02:44*Supercheese wonders what it would take to add support for it
02:52<@Alberth>make a newgrf extension proposal, get agreement from everybody, find a dev to add openttd support, find a dev to add nml support
02:52<Supercheese>I was thinking more mundane things, like which function(s) to add to the header file
02:53<Supercheese>to add to which header file*
02:53<@Alberth>make an example implementation can be helpful too
02:54<@Alberth>src/newgrf_airport_tiles or so
02:54<@Alberth>src/newgrf too, probably
02:55<@Alberth>but even an example implementation needs a definition in newgrf spec
02:55<@Alberth>or you don't know what to build
02:55<@Alberth>and for showcase, you might have to do some nfo coding, or extend nml
02:55<Supercheese>well, essentially I'd like to add feature 0D as a related parent scope for feature 11 as mentioned earlier
02:56<@Alberth>yep
02:56<Supercheese>so I'll work on doing that
02:56<@Alberth>it's quite natural, and thus has been considered before by someones, and has been rejected
02:57<@Alberth>the reason behind that would be interesting
02:58<@Alberth>but for your newgrf to be of use to anyone else, you need that feature parent relation in main stream openttd
03:06<Terkhen>hello
03:07<@Alberth>hello T
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03:38<Wolf01>moin
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04:53<@Alberth>hi hi
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07:44<andythenorth>o/
07:44<@Alberth>moin
07:45<andythenorth>Saturday cat
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>is feeling lazy
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>also: Caturday
07:47<@Alberth>just sleep at some tiles in the shadow
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07:49*Wolf01 is preparing the lego sets for the next saturday
07:49<andythenorth>?
07:49<Wolf01>http://brickset.com/article/15657/borgobrick-veneto-italy-11-12-july
07:52<andythenorth>oic :)
07:52<@Alberth>measuring how much space is left available :)
07:54*andythenorth should work on this today :P https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/14264965852/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
07:54<Wolf01>nice
07:55<andythenorth>it has been work-in-progress for about 7 years :P
07:55<Wolf01>have you considered to purchase the Sbrick to get rid of the iR receivers?
07:55<@Alberth>double mars lander :)
07:57<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18pdejj1rE8&feature=player_embedded
07:59<andythenorth>Wolf01: wondering about Sbrick
07:59<andythenorth>dunno how much power it delivers
07:59<andythenorth>to get decent performance, I need 1 battery box per 4 motors
07:59<andythenorth>to get really good performance, 1 battery box per 2 motors :P
08:01<andythenorth>Sbrick says 3A per channel
08:01<andythenorth>not sure how that correlates to performance
08:02<@Alberth>doesn't a motor speficy amps ?
08:02<Wolf01>http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm
08:02<@Alberth>or a battery
08:03<andythenorth>to be strict, it’s not the battery boxes that are the limit in the current model
08:04<andythenorth>it’s the PF receivers, which have current limiters
08:04<andythenorth>but still, 2 battery boxes is better than 1
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08:22<Pikkaphone>what what
08:23<@Alberth>lego watts, mostly
08:24<Pikkaphone>fantastic
08:27<andythenorth>hi hi Pikkaphone bob
08:27<andythenorth>have you done roadtypes yet?
08:31<andythenorth>no, me neither :P
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11:50<Ektor>hello, salut
11:50<@Alberth>hi hi
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15:00<rav>I like the visual feedback when dragging autorails. When dragging autoroad, the only feedback is the highlighted squares -- it doesn't indicate which part of the road (N/E/S/W) I build by clicking in a particular spot. As a seasoned C++ developer I would like to try and implement this -- has anyone worked on a similar feature?
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15:01<rav>I must say it was relatively easy for me to find the git repository and build and run it -- the codebase is complex but I'm slowly getting the hang it
15:09<@Alberth>there may be sprites available
15:10<@Alberth>maybe the forum has a topic about it
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16:09<Supercheese>Hmm, maybe accessing PARENT scope in airport tiles isn't required for what I want to do...
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>rav: that's a feature that comes up every now and then. it SHOULD be quite easy to do, but nobody ever followed through on it
16:25<rav>Eddi|zuHause: let's see how far I get tonight. so far I have the highlight changing between x-rail and y-rail depending whether the cursor is in the nw/ne/sw/se corner of the tile
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17:37<Supercheese>if there are 32 bits of random data available, then running a hasbit check on any given bit should return true 1/32 of the time, right?
17:38<Supercheese>each bit is randomly created equal?
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>no. each bit returns true 1/2 of the time
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>and ALL bits return true 1/4294967296 of the time
17:54<rav>I'm going to bed now. For future reference, my autoroad progress is here: https://github.com/Mortal/openttd/compare/rav
17:55<Supercheese>ah, yes
17:56<Supercheese>so... checking hasbit(1) && hasbit(2) would be true 1/4 of the time?
17:57<Supercheese>maybe I should just modulo
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17:57<Supercheese>clamp to a sensible range
17:57<Supercheese>extra_callback_info1 % 4 == 1
17:58<Supercheese>now that should be true 25% of the time
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause>if you have more than one random decision like this, you should make sure to read different bits, to avoid correlation
18:11<Supercheese>Well, hopefully anim_control 's extra_callback_info1 random bits are re-randomized each time an animation trigger happens
18:12<Supercheese>but I don't really know when the data is re-randomized, guess I can check the source
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i meant within the same callback
18:13<Supercheese>ah, just one decision each time the callback is fired
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>and when things are rerandomized should be in the specs
18:14<Supercheese>Random() does seem to be called for each ChangeAnimationFrame() call anyway
18:16<Supercheese>time to try compiling...
18:16<Supercheese>success, time to test functionality...
18:20<Supercheese>looking good so far...
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18:46<Supercheese>great, now just gotta fix the graphics
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>"great, now i just have to do the other 90% of the work"
18:51<Supercheese>stupid sprite aligner, coords now multiplied by 4
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's rather silly. i don't know who approved that
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the boundaries for trunk inclusion are much weaker for developer features :p
19:05<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 05 00:00:56 2015