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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-08

---Logopened Wed Jul 08 00:00:00 2015
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00:54<supermop>i wonder how close i can model brio style rail vehicles without being infringing
00:55<supermop>seems like it would count as fair use, but then again maybe toys and games are legally in the same category?
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02:58<andythenorth>o/
02:59<V453000>sup andy
02:59<V453000>serioze noogrf production?
03:01<andythenorth>no
03:01<andythenorth>unserious
03:01<andythenorth>lolgrf
03:02<andythenorth>tramz also
03:02<andythenorth>V453000 what tramz do you have?
03:02<V453000>no trams actually
03:03<V453000>making new industry for yeti and I overengineered it a bit per usual
03:03<V453000>made super awesome mechanism how to create a functional, animatable conveyor belt :D
03:03<V453000>might even make a tutorial out of it
03:04<andythenorth>:)
03:04<supermop>yo v and andy
03:04<V453000>hyhy
03:04<supermop>only 3 more days in aus
03:04<supermop>drinking as much beer as i can
03:05<supermop>which means so far this afternoon had 1 amber ale 1 porter 1 golden ale 1 rye red ale and 1 double black ipa
03:05<supermop>that said
03:06<supermop>can one make a toyland only base set
03:06<V453000>yes we hereby allow you to do so :P
03:07<supermop>working on this: http://danielerikson.com/sketch/Brio.png
03:08<supermop>i guess should be part of a general 32bpp base set
03:08<V453000>omg XD
03:08<supermop>but toyland only has a few trains so could get the toyland trains done in a weekend
03:09<V453000>the connecting parts are actually a nice idea though
03:10<supermop>i think the trac connectors would be in center tile
03:11<supermop>near the edge could would, but diagonals would look worse
03:11<V453000>yeah, having them at the tile borders would be a mess
03:13<supermop>plain green felt for grass?
03:13<supermop>or tile/wood floor?
03:14<andythenorth>carpet :P
03:14<andythenorth>carpet is ugly
03:14<andythenorth>tramz are the tricky
03:14<andythenorth>V453000: but what should I do about this problem? :( https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7366/trams-multi-unit.png
03:15<andythenorth>remove the cabs?
03:15<V453000>andythenorth: what is the problem?
03:15<V453000>ah, the cabins
03:15<andythenorth>they were drawn as single unit
03:15<andythenorth>but I need multi-unit
03:15<V453000>I thought you were just going to draw "wagon" sprites for the not-0th units?
03:16<andythenorth>maybe
03:16<andythenorth>options: (1) delete the cabs (2) draw wagons
03:16<V453000>shouldnt be that much work once you got the one with cabin already
03:16<andythenorth>wagons are more reusable I think
03:17<supermop>cab-truck trailer-truck trailer-truck trailer-cab
03:17<V453000>would be nice ^
03:17<andythenorth>triple the work
03:17<andythenorth>compared to single unit
03:18<supermop>ottd slopes too small to see traditional brio style ramps
03:18<supermop>andythenorth: by truck trailer i mean whatever RH sprite you have about already
03:18<supermop>or IH sprite
03:19<V453000>NO, dont motivate him to slack and steal sprites from other projects :D
03:20<andythenorth>I think the middle trailers would have to match the cab units
03:20<andythenorth>V453000 could render them
03:20<andythenorth>automated
03:20<V453000>sure, send models
03:21<andythenorth>V453000: can you model some trams and send them to V453000 who will render them?
03:21<V453000>noep
03:21<V453000>yeti must progrez
03:23<V453000>my productivity is going to shit with the latest hot days
03:25*andythenorth will have to do it
03:25<andythenorth>I fricking hate drawing vehicles
03:25<andythenorth>they have 8 angles
03:25<andythenorth>8
03:25<andythenorth>8
03:25<andythenorth>buildings have 1
03:25<V453000>3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D
03:25<andythenorth>vehicles are stoopid
03:25<V453000>biggest bullshit are slopes
03:26<V453000>every tile times 19, with WTF fake steepness
03:26<Supercheese>don't buildings have 4? Unless symmetric about some axes?
03:26<V453000>vehicles are lovely in compare
03:26<Supercheese>it's just easier to beg off doing rotations for buildings
03:27<V453000>no rotating without 3D either :P
03:28<andythenorth>buildings don’t rotate :P
03:29<V453000>They Could (tm)? :P
03:29<andythenorth>problem with 3D is that it has to be 32bpp / EZ
03:29<andythenorth>which means
03:29<andythenorth>more colours
03:29<andythenorth>which means choices
03:29<andythenorth>also massive compile times
03:29<andythenorth>also massive grfs
03:29<V453000>"has" is a huge overstatement
03:30<V453000>in fact, one of my aims is to make an almost black/white everything, with colourful important things (vehicles, stuff)
03:30<V453000>could be nice
03:30<V453000>but WORK
03:30<andythenorth>who’s going to model something, then render it out as 8bpp / 1x zoom blur-o-pixel-vision?
03:30<V453000>I do that
03:30<V453000>it actually is surprisingly ok
03:30<V453000>you need 8bpp/x1 sprites anyway
03:31<V453000>unless you are a baller like Pikka and make your newgrfs borken with transparent 8bpp sprites XD
03:31*andythenorth is just arguing self into drawing tramz
03:31<V453000>fuck now I want to get to make black and white things
03:31<V453000>fuck you andy
03:31<V453000>yeti motivation goneth
03:31<V453000>back to BRIX XD
03:31<andythenorth>my Road Hog motivation is….low
03:31<andythenorth>but I hate unfinished things
03:32*andythenorth hates Squid a lot
03:32<V453000>firs is finished?
03:32<andythenorth>it’s ‘being improved'
03:32<andythenorth>but not fucked
03:32<andythenorth>I played a game with it, all the broken is gone
03:32<andythenorth>as much as it ever will be
03:32<V453000>:)
03:32<Pikka>hello gentlemen
03:33<andythenorth>loose term
03:33<V453000>heyooo
03:33<V453000>how are things progressing Pikka?
03:33<Pikka>my newgrfs have fabulous 8bpp sprites thanks :)
03:33<V453000>:)
03:33<andythenorth>yummy
03:33<Pikka>things are progressing well. working on a factory at the moment, the last element for my kickstarter screenshots...
03:33<andythenorth>Pikka: what should I do about these bloody tramz? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7366/trams-multi-unit.png
03:33<V453000>ooooo
03:34<V453000>spoiler screenshots etc Pikka? :P
03:34<Supercheese>should paint them all in action colors
03:34<Supercheese>blinky blinky
03:34<Pikka>of the factory, or stuff in general?
03:35<V453000>well mainly interested in factory, but anything you show I am curious about :)
03:35<Pikka>I quietly uploaded a screenshot showing coast tiles and an aircraft the other week :)
03:36*andythenorth saw it
03:36<V453000>I dident
03:36<Pikka>http://pikkarail.com/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/flyover.png
03:36<Pikka>what's wrong with the trams, andythenorth?
03:36<andythenorth>look silly
03:36<andythenorth>the cabs
03:36<V453000>interesting stuff
03:36<andythenorth>nice plane
03:36<V453000>factory, factory! :P
03:36<andythenorth>tramz, tramz!
03:37<V453000>but yeah, chibby looks like the way to go :P
03:37<andythenorth>hmm
03:37<andythenorth>commit…. “Change: removed tramz, couldn’t be arsed"
03:37<V453000>haha brix has 666 sprites
03:37<V453000>that is a sign that I must continue the project
03:38<andythenorth>always a sign
03:38*Pikka wonders if "freight trams" should be narrow-gauge-train-like
03:38<V453000>they should do puffpuff
03:40<Pikka>no wires on tramtracks would be good, would make them less cluttery and more versatile...
03:40<V453000>puffpuff
03:40<V453000>choochoo and stuf
03:40<Pikka>for sho
03:41<V453000>Anyway, I am very interested in your progress Pikka :) you make nice stuff
03:42<Pikka>https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/004/086/301/0328995175f6f0cfbc500c755a272504_original.png?v=1435900521&w=456&fit=max&auto=format&lossless=true&s=e544f6eed067789e26709ec5022ec3a7 will that load?
03:42<V453000>yarr
03:42<Pikka>not much you haven't seen before though
03:42<V453000>yeah :)
03:42<V453000>hm I should revive my black/white thing idea
03:43<V453000>only industries and vehicles colourful, perhaps towns a bit too
03:43<andythenorth>I am strictly doing realisms only https://d1u1p2xjjiahg3.cloudfront.net/0fffe173-c8d1-41ed-9292-cf195d6b529c.jpg
03:43<andythenorth>and nothing invented at all
03:44<andythenorth>(grain tram)
03:45<andythenorth>I think I’ll do single-unit tramcars and chibi wagons behind them
03:45<andythenorth>less drawing
03:45<V453000>lazy fuck! :D
03:45<V453000>:P
03:46<andythenorth>yeah
03:46<andythenorth>sue me
03:46<supermop>andythenorth: & V453000 i want monochrome iconographic baseset to play at work
03:46<V453000>at work?
03:48<V453000>you mean so the game would look like a website made of icons XD
03:51<supermop>so it would not look obviously like a game!
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03:51<V453000>right
03:51<V453000>I am not sure that would look nice ;)
03:51<supermop>a faux acad or rhino gui and base set would also work
03:52<supermop>pikka when do we send you pineapples?
03:53<andythenorth>eh?
03:53<andythenorth>still looks borked :(
03:53<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7372/crappy_tram.png
03:53<Pikka>mmm next week it's looking like, the project page is just about done but I don't know how long it takes to get approved. and I haven't done my video yet. :)
03:53<andythenorth>tram is 28px, 7/8 long
03:53<andythenorth>wagons are 16px, 4/8 long :(
03:53<andythenorth>Pikka: are you asking for a relatively small sum?
03:54<supermop>alright
03:54<Pikka>relative to what? :)
03:54<supermop>i have something to post up to brisbane before i leave on saturday
03:55<supermop>andythenorth: stick to cabs on every unit and say it's due to a union rule
03:55<andythenorth>relative to, I think the active community is thousands
03:55<andythenorth>on average
03:56<Pikka>I'm hoping to get it out beyond the existing OpenTTD community a little... but a relatively small sum, yes.
03:57<andythenorth>k
03:57<V453000>I am not sure, I think you could ask for something reasonable
03:57*andythenorth aifkay
03:57<V453000>people want it.
03:57<Pikka>well
03:57<Pikka>there's always stretch goals :)
03:57<V453000>:)
03:58<V453000>sure, but underpricing yourself at the start isnt helpful in the future :P
03:58<Pikka>yes
03:59<Pikka>I haven't underpriced myself... I don't think. :) It's all a fun hobby project anyway, I just need to be able to justify the time spent...
03:59<V453000>:)
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04:17<supermop>http://danielerikson.com/sketch/Brio_slope.png
04:18<Pikka>for openttd?
04:18<supermop>toyland base set
04:18<Pikka>excellent
04:19<Pikka>toyland needs love
04:19<Pikka>or a fire
04:19<supermop>in a like for like ogfx replacement the peg wagon would refit to basically everything
04:19<supermop>ogfx+
04:20<supermop>in base set the peg with rectangle and peg with cylinder would be separate
04:20<Pikka>hmm
04:20<supermop>thinking little to no cc
04:21<Pikka>well base sets are really just 1:1 sprite replacement for the original graphics, can't do anything fancy.
04:21<Pikka>cc wheels?
04:21<V453000>viva la static newgrf :P
04:22<supermop>thought about that
04:22<supermop>but idk if i would stomach non-red wheels
04:22<Pikka>cc engine funnel?
04:22<supermop>only smooth plastic parts shoyld be cc though i think
04:22<supermop>yeah i could stand greenor pink funnels
04:23<supermop>in base set ill draw the mail van as the classic caboose
04:24<supermop>and fuck those who try to run all mail trains in toyland - too bad
04:24<supermop>toyland houses generate little enough mail that one mail van at the end of a train should be fine
04:25<supermop>cc caboose could work - the black roof might mitigate the color
04:26<supermop>but yeah two static new grfs would be great - one for base set and one to override ogfx+ sprites (is that possible?)
04:26<supermop>thaat way i can play on toyland servers
04:27<supermop>also wheels should stay red to differentiate with the black wheels on road vehicles?
04:28<@planetmaker>:)
04:28<@planetmaker>I just was thinking where there were plastic parts... but the turn-over dump wagons do
04:28<andythenorth>brio has loads of plastic now
04:28*andythenorth could take photographic evidence :P
04:29<supermop>i actually do not mind modern abstract brio
04:29<andythenorth>there is about 50KG of brio in our lounge
04:29<andythenorth>:|
04:29<supermop>brio should be abstract
04:29<supermop>i like the one with the jingle bell in it
04:29<andythenorth>wtf is wrong with those trams :(
04:29<@planetmaker>lol, andythenorth :)
04:29<andythenorth>@calc 4 * 7
04:29<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 28
04:29<andythenorth>meh
04:29<andythenorth>I hate everything
04:30<@planetmaker>"all equally worthless"? :D
04:30<andythenorth>maybe I just redraw them
04:30<supermop>brio maglev: brio track without the center raised part, or without the side raised parts?
04:30<andythenorth>if 7/8 isn’t 28px, then I’ll redraw it to whatever it is
04:31<andythenorth>or maybe it’s just a visual illusion
04:31<andythenorth>hmm
04:31<supermop>plain wood with circular brio magnests in it every 1/4 tile?
04:31<supermop>magnets
04:31<@planetmaker>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2M4ilVaAmI
04:31<andythenorth>no, they really are overlapping :(
04:31<andythenorth>ffs
04:32<andythenorth>is there a ‘rage quit’ emoticon?
04:32<@planetmaker>every 1/4 tile a magnet? seems too often
04:32<supermop>1/2 tile?
04:32<@planetmaker>imho the brio proportions perfectly fit the default proportions
04:32<supermop>i mean it would not work
04:33<supermop>but something playfully suggesting magnets
04:33<@planetmaker>well, yes :)
04:33<supermop>if brio makes a working, permanent magnet in wood track toy maglev i will devote my life to brio
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04:34<supermop>electromagnets or superconductors are cheating
04:35<supermop>official brio monorail looks like this: http://www.tiadora.de/geschenke-shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/r/brio-monorail-flugahfen-set1.jpg
04:37<supermop>planetmaker: can i have a static grf that replaces ogfx+ train sprites?
04:37<supermop>so i can play on a server that uses toyland + ogfx+
04:44<@planetmaker>not sure it would work that way around
04:44<@planetmaker>actually I'm quite sure that you can't :)
04:45<@planetmaker>static newgrf don't replace any NewGRF-provided sprite(s)
04:45<V453000>fuck I forgot the amount of sprites I needed for trees xd
04:47<V453000>wrote it down on some paper and paper gtfo :D
04:48<V453000>any simple way to count amount of tree types?
04:48<V453000>I know there are 7 stages for each tree
04:49<supermop>im doing the same wood cut out pine tree for all trees and stages
04:50<Supercheese>could just scale the size for the stages
04:50<supermop>brio toys don't grow
04:50<V453000>62 fucking tree ty
04:50<V453000>types
04:50<V453000>._:
04:50<Supercheese>they also don't move on their own ;)
04:51<Supercheese>well, gravity excepted
04:51<supermop>they have battery powered brio these days
04:52<Supercheese>ah, I stand corrected
04:52<supermop>but i am thinking differentiate the types by rotating and shifting the same tree around
04:52<supermop>ah they had some deciduous trees too: http://www.woodenrailway.info/resources/catalogs/dealer/catalog_1987.pdf
04:53<supermop>but i think it looks more like a set of toys on the carpet with as few tree types as possible
04:53<supermop>toyland only has 9 trees anyway
04:53<supermop>off to get pizza bbl
04:59<Supercheese>I wonder where my old Brio has gotten off to anyway
04:59<Supercheese>buried in storage no doubt
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07:04<supermop>http://danielerikson.com/sketch/tracks.png
07:04<@planetmaker>:)
07:05<supermop>mag lev could be 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Monorail could be 3rd or 4th
07:06<supermop>those are each 16 cm or 1 tile long
07:06<supermop>with the connector in center of tile
07:07<supermop>what do you think planetmaker ?
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07:16<@planetmaker>connector at centre of tile makes sense
07:17<@planetmaker>as to which is which... not sure. Might be hard to differ... 3 maglev and 4 monorail?
07:21<supermop>that would be intuitive
07:22<supermop>are the magnets too silly?
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08:09<Eddi|zuHause><supermop> if brio makes a working, permanent magnet in wood track toy maglev i will devote my life to brio <-- last time i checked, wood wasn't magnetic
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08:37<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: yeah i'm not too worried about having to make good on that offer
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13:24<@Alberth>o/
13:27<frosch123>hoi
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27326 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-07-08 19:45:12 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 6 changes by Gavin
13:46<@planetmaker>o/
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13:47<Wolf01>o/
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14:05<andythenorth>o/
14:20<Wolf01>o/
14:22<@Alberth>moin
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15:24<andythenorth>tramz tramz tramz :P
15:28*andythenorth must to code some
15:29<frosch123>hmm, i must have missed it, but what is actually the current project :p
15:29<frosch123>bandit2 ?
15:29<andythenorth>Road Hog
15:29<andythenorth>there’s an alpha on bananaramas
15:29<frosch123>road hog ate bandit
15:29<andythenorth>or nightly here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/
15:29<andythenorth>animal theme :P
15:29<andythenorth>also Dan convinced me to add buses
15:30<andythenorth>the trucks are pretty playable, 1930-2000
15:30<frosch123>i probably won't use them :p
15:30<andythenorth>this is the demotivating factor :D
15:30<andythenorth>“everybody” hates RVs
15:30<frosch123>i cannot remember ever playing a passenger game
15:30<andythenorth>or at least, most of the people whose opinions I respect :P
15:31<frosch123>sometimes i build them to make towns grow until they accept goods or something
15:31<frosch123>but modern industry sets do not quite rely on that
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15:31<frosch123>hmm, right, i wanted to play yeti
15:31<andythenorth>I built at least 3 buses in my last game :P
15:32<frosch123>i am turning into eddi
15:32<frosch123>that's scary :p
15:32<andythenorth>it is your natural destiny
15:32<andythenorth>I am turning into MB
15:32<andythenorth>which is ok :P
15:34<andythenorth>who needs trains? o_O https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7362/hog.png
15:57<V453000>Awsum
16:00<V453000>Frosch still has not played yeti? :P
16:01*andythenorth has not played Yeti either
16:01<V453000>:(
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16:37<andythenorth>hmm
16:37<andythenorth>16/8 trams block
16:37<andythenorth>21/8 trams block :P
16:39<Pikka>excellent
16:40<andythenorth>18/8 trams block a bit
16:40<andythenorth>this is fun :P
16:40<Pikka>what do they block?
16:40<andythenorth>stations
16:41<andythenorth>silly trams have free station slots they could go to
16:41<andythenorth>but they don’t because they think they can fit in behind a 16/8 tram
16:41<andythenorth>on 21/8 the junction is blocked
16:41<andythenorth>18/8 _seems_ to work
16:42<Pikka>odd
16:43<andythenorth>moderately chibi oil tram https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7386/oylbarral.png
16:43<andythenorth>vehicle info window seems a bit finicky about drawing road vehicles |:
16:44<andythenorth>or the offsets are borked :P
16:44<andythenorth>which is more likely? o_O
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16:54<andythenorth>lo Pokka
16:54<Pokka>lo
16:54-!-Pokka is now known as Pikka
16:55<andythenorth>80t tramz?
16:55<andythenorth>seems about right
16:55<Pikka>heavy
16:55<Pikka>why not
16:55<andythenorth>bigger might be better
16:56<andythenorth>but this 18/8 thing :P
16:56*andythenorth makes each wagon carry more :P
16:56<andythenorth>simples
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17:11<andythenorth>night night
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17:57<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 09 00:00:02 2015