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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-14

---Logopened Tue Jul 14 00:00:08 2015
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07:54<Garfield>hi
07:55<Garfield>I would like to ask something about bananas newgrf.
07:56-!-Garfield is now known as Garfield222
07:57<Garfield222>I would like to ask something about bananas newgrf.
07:58<@planetmaker>just ask
07:59<@planetmaker>without a question it's unlikely anyone can answer it :)
08:00<Garfield222>Are there somewhere documentation how version number/naming are created for newgrf files.
08:00<@planetmaker>they're defined by the author
08:01<@planetmaker>and can basically be chosen arbitrarily
08:01<Garfield222>I am asking because I have difficulty to understand what file are newer. Eg. NuTracks-1.1.2.tar.gz , NuTracks-r234.tar.gz
08:02<@planetmaker>additionally there's a numeric-only version, but that is mostly internal and not necessarily exposed to the user
08:03<@planetmaker>no-one can say from just looking at those two names. Put both into your NewGRF dir (unzip them there) and start OpenTTD
08:03<@planetmaker>With all settings set to default it won#t show the older one
08:03<Garfield222>I don't understand what you mean? I i look at https://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/ , there are not only numeric version listed. eg. City Objects B06
08:04<@planetmaker>yes, those are the versions displayed to users. They can be chosen arbitrarily
08:04<@planetmaker>basically that's the 'name' given to a version
08:04<Garfield222>that is exacly what I do not want to do. I takes too much time to start openttd. I would like to desice which files is newer just by looking at file name.
08:04<Garfield222>:-)
08:05<@planetmaker>there's no other way except browsing Nutrack's repository and looking there
08:05<@planetmaker>or at its build artefacts' dates: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nutracks/
08:05<Garfield222>ok. I see. I could make my life a bit simple, if some policy would exist for naming versions. for example like here http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0440/
08:06<Garfield222>it is just a proposal.
08:06<Garfield222>thanks for answering
08:07<andythenorth>some of us use something like semver
08:07<andythenorth>major.minor.trivial
08:07<@planetmaker>Garfield222, those two versions somewhat compare apples and oranges. 1.1.2 is a released version. While r234 is a development one :) (and r234 is newer than 1.1.2)
08:10<Garfield222>that means to bee alsolutely sure that r234 is newer than 1.1.2, I have to use same algorith, that openttd uses. Compare some ID's inside newgrf file ?
08:11<@planetmaker>that ID is also set by the author ;)
08:12<@planetmaker>but yes. Or simply learn, that there's tags (release builds) which follow the major.minor.bugfix versioning scheme and development versions which often only use a sequential numbering
08:13<@planetmaker>hard to decide then how that matches with the releases, but well. Every author can decide themselves how they do versioning
08:13<@planetmaker>In the end it's not OpenTTD, but every NewGRF author individually
08:13<@planetmaker>But doing so, they follow OpenTTD's versioning scheme actually
08:14<Garfield222>and how openttd sorts out old newgrf files?
08:14<@planetmaker>with sequential builds derived from trunk. And releases in the form of major.minor.bugfix
08:15<@planetmaker>reading the NewGRFs internal version, which is numerical only. Trusting that the author always increases it with each commit or release
08:17<Garfield222>ok. thanks.
08:19<@planetmaker>Garfield222, anyway, if your intention is to 'cleanup the NewGRF dir', think again. You have those two versions for a reason. And an existing savegame very likely needs that *exact* version of the NewGRF
08:20<@planetmaker>Thus in case of doubt, you might end up with savegames where you have NewGRFs which are hard to find, if you didn't get their particular NewGRFs versions from the ingame content download
08:20<Garfield222>the problem is that thera are more than two version :-)
08:21<@planetmaker>that's not a problem either...
08:21<@planetmaker>the same applies for any number really :)
08:22<@planetmaker>1,2G ./content_download/newgrf
08:22<@planetmaker>279M ./newgrf
08:22<Garfield222>more difficult sample: FISH_2-2.0.0.tar.gz FISH_2-2.0.2.tar.gz FISH_2-alpha.tar.gz FISH_2-squidalpha1.tar.gz FISH_2-squidalpha3.tar.gz FISH_2-squidalpha5.tar.gz FISH_2-squidrc8.tar.gz
08:22<Garfield222>FISH_2-2.0.1.tar.gz FISH_2-FISH2Alpha3.tar.gz FISH_2-alpha4.tar.gz FISH_2-squidalpha2.tar.gz FISH_2-squidalpha4.tar.gz FISH_2-squidrc7.tar.gz FISH_2-squidrc9.tar.gz
08:22<@planetmaker>is possibly quite a lot, but so what?
08:23<@planetmaker>use the file age
08:23<Garfield222>I woule keep only 2.0.2
08:23<Garfield222>but I am not sure, without starting openttd and testing :-)
08:23<Garfield222>yes, probably age is one of the solutions.
08:24<Garfield222>about version ID inside newgrf. Is action 14, "INFO" -> "VRSN" the right location to check version ?
08:28<@planetmaker>yes
08:29<@planetmaker>if it doesn't exist, it is interpreted as 0
08:30<andythenorth>dunno what to do about alphas
08:30<andythenorth>they’re not releases
08:30<andythenorth>I can’t give them a released version number
08:30<andythenorth>it dilutes the value of releases
08:31<andythenorth>I would delete all alphas :P
08:31<andythenorth>and get them from bananas again if needed :P
08:34<Garfield222>that could be a problem. I never know maybe some old gamesave need those alphas. It happens sometimes that gamesave need not release version 1.2.3 , but a developement version r432.
08:34<andythenorth>well
08:35<andythenorth>in that case you have to keep them all :)
08:35<Garfield222>Another question. are there maybe some python library to read GRF versions or compare newgrf files.
08:35<Garfield222>:-)
08:35<Garfield222>no space left on disk :-)
08:36<Garfield222>I could dig inside action 14 and write some script, but I am a bit to laisy.
08:36<andythenorth>you have YETI, or Pineapple?
08:36<andythenorth>sort your newgrf folder by size :P
08:37<andythenorth>32bpp EZ grfs are acres bigger than most 8bpp grfs
08:37<Garfield222>zBase-* takes some space
08:37<andythenorth>yes
08:38<andythenorth>by contrast, Squid Ate FISH is about 1.3MB
08:38<andythenorth>how big is your disk? o_O
08:39<Garfield222>I was joking about disk space. I just what to clean up a bit. But I am afraid to delete "possibly" necessary newgrf files
08:39<andythenorth>occasionally I just delete all
08:39<andythenorth>and get them again
08:39<andythenorth>the ‘scanning newgrfs’ gets slow on game start
08:41<Garfield222>but seriuosly. Are the maybe some library or command line tool get newgrf version (like openttd does) it order to be able to compare
08:43<andythenorth>not that I know of
08:44<andythenorth>there are various ways to decompile that you could exploit
08:44<andythenorth>grfcodec with -d
08:44<V453000>sup
08:44<andythenorth>or grf2html, but that _might_ be dead
08:44<andythenorth>lo V453000
08:45<andythenorth>this fly is annoying
08:45<andythenorth>in my room
08:45<andythenorth>I wish it would fuck right off :)
08:45<andythenorth>oops, swearing
08:47<@planetmaker>Garfield222, seriously, the only maintained library is OpenTTD itself
08:48<andythenorth>planetmaker: have _you_ played any openttd recently? o_O
08:58*andythenorth is curious who’s playing
08:58<@planetmaker>not very much really
09:00<@planetmaker>I blame my girl friend ;)
09:01<andythenorth>openttd is not compatible with relationships :P
09:01<andythenorth>it is mostly for single people :P
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10:36<@Terkhen>hello
10:39<andythenorth>lo Terkhen :)
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10:59<andythenorth>Terkhen: played any OpenTTD? o_O
11:00<V453000>wtf is this poll again andy :D
11:01<andythenorth>‘survey says'
11:01*andythenorth is curious how dead OpenTTD really is
11:01<V453000>it isnt :)
11:02<andythenorth>yeah I think it is
11:02<andythenorth>actually finally dead
11:02<andythenorth>as a programming project
11:05<@Terkhen>andythenorth: not really :P
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think your narrow field of view makes this observation universal
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11:06<andythenorth>narrow field of view = forums, irc channel, version control
11:06<andythenorth>what secret place do I miss? o_O
11:07<V453000>openttdcoop, reddit, competitive servers
11:08<andythenorth>nah, who’s writing game code there?
11:08<andythenorth>really?
11:08<andythenorth>someone has github or something with All The Ponies?
11:08<V453000>people seem to play more and more from what I see
11:08<andythenorth>play != programming
11:08<V453000>more players should eventually turn into more developers I believe
11:08<andythenorth>playing is fine, the game is fun
11:08<andythenorth>but eh, it’s dead for development
11:08<V453000>I actually played the game at some point too
11:08<andythenorth>we should have a part
11:08<andythenorth>party *
11:09<andythenorth>frosch is the only person left committing
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: just that you visit all these places doesn't mean you see everything that is going on
11:09<andythenorth>tree, falling, forest
11:10<andythenorth>if it doesn’t get committed, it’s irrelevant :P
11:10<@planetmaker>we should dev-ify afd88. Then we got two active committers again ;)
11:10<andythenorth>translators are going strong
11:11<andythenorth>it’s mature
11:11<andythenorth>finished
11:11<andythenorth>done
11:11<andythenorth>put a banner on it, have a party :)
11:13<@planetmaker>banner... maybe. party... sure. mature... probably
11:13<@planetmaker>finished... no. done... no ;)
11:14<andythenorth>what’s left beyond bug fixes?
11:14<andythenorth>and maintaining the compile
11:14<andythenorth>?
11:14<@Alberth>scenario format
11:15<@Alberth>expanding GSes
11:15<@Alberth>probably something group-ish
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>roadtypes ;)
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>airports ;)
11:15<@planetmaker>some MP league
11:15<@Alberth>RV balance :)
11:16<@Alberth>sane "new game" gui
11:16<V453000>button for blitter swapping
11:16<V453000>sensible tutorial, not just a GS
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>infrastructure sharing (including solving the transfer issue)
11:17<@planetmaker>daylength
11:17<@Alberth>I think we pretty much reached 2.0 by then :p
11:17<@planetmaker>extended default game components (default newgrfs?)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think there is ever going to be a 2.0
11:17<@planetmaker>in 5 years ;)
11:18<andythenorth>‘what is v2’ is a thorny question :)
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>then there's 1.10 :p
11:18<V453000>on a serious note, what do you guys think about some blitter button in the game? I feel it is kind of important
11:18<andythenorth>I work on about 6 different projects where ‘v2?’ is a question :P
11:18<@planetmaker>V453000, yes, handy. wanted. and a detail ;)
11:18<V453000>not a detail at all
11:18<V453000>it is a huge deal for players
11:18<V453000>nobody wants to mess with cfg all the time
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: can't be more than 10 LOC
11:18<V453000>and new players demand 32bpp a lot
11:18<@Alberth>it is?
11:19<@Alberth>I mean you set it once, and you're done, right?
11:19<V453000>most people have no idea how 32bpp / 8bpp is handled
11:19<V453000>Alberth: no, often you want to swap
11:19<@planetmaker>really?
11:19<andythenorth>why is it an interesting choice?
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>32bpp is enabled automatically when you load a 32bpp grf
11:19<@Alberth>I never ever swap
11:19<andythenorth>I had picked up some FUD that 8bpp blitter was dead
11:20<andythenorth>all my blitters are slightly dead tbh :
11:20<andythenorth>:P
11:20<V453000>sure but when 32bpp demolishes your cpu, or you want them to be more coherent, 8bpp is win
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you have a perception bias against death, apparently
11:20<andythenorth>for some OS / hardware combos, isn’t 32bpp more performant?
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: only for weird ones
11:20<V453000>idk try loading yeti with a lot of animations :)
11:20<@planetmaker>like osx :P
11:21<andythenorth>like OS X
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>like OS X
11:21<@planetmaker>actually both, windows and osx have 32bpp blitter as default
11:21<@planetmaker>it's hardware which plays the bad tricks
11:21<andythenorth>full animation is borked with both 8bpp and 32bpp
11:21<andythenorth>for me
11:21<andythenorth>black screen regions
11:21<@Alberth>the real step is going to switch to using a gpu, but that's very complicated afaik
11:22<@planetmaker>yeah
11:22<V453000>the choice we get with various blitters is great and quite powerful tool, I know many users on our welcome server even (newer players) swap to 8bpp often due to performance, or just to make 32bpp newgrfs look more like their 8bpp base set, etc
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>use shaders for palette animation and stuff
11:22<@planetmaker>like an opengl blitter or stuff
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't have a clue how to even start with that
11:22<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, start with deprecating palette animation
11:22<V453000>XD
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: why?
11:23<@planetmaker>in order to outsource to GPU :P Palette and 32bpp doesn't work too well anyway
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if you want the easy way out, pre-process all sprites with all the palette states, and then flip the cached sprites all the time
11:24<@planetmaker>something like that, for instance, yes
11:24<@planetmaker>memory is cheaper than cpu power :)
11:25<andythenorth>:)
11:25*andythenorth misses the waves
11:25<andythenorth>the waves the waves the waves
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it might cause combinatory explosion if the sprite uses multiple cycles with non-matching cycle lengths
11:26*andythenorth wonders if we should play the game a bit :P
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>lcm(cycle1,cycle2)
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, you have to check which magic colour cycles are actually used
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11:29<andythenorth>the last game I played, the only thing I would have changed is Busy Bee
11:29<andythenorth>and that is within even my capabilities :P
11:30<andythenorth>there are tons of minor annoyances, but very few that are worth adding Ever More Code for
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>24h clock, timetable visualisation, ...
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>(24h clock has nothing to do with daylength, btw.)
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11:46<openbu>I can't
11:48<openbu>Why not add the army to zbase ,Such as tank.
11:48<andythenorth>moar tanks
11:48*andythenorth considers a ‘trench’ industry
11:49<andythenorth>accepts: conscripts
11:49<andythenorth>produces: corpses
11:50<@planetmaker>:P
11:50<andythenorth>pretty horrible :P
11:50*andythenorth was reading the other day about WW1 railroad logistics
11:50<@planetmaker>totally politically correct and family friendly
11:50<andythenorth>it’s obvious that moving troops and amunition was required
11:51<andythenorth>but less commonly mentioned was the traffic the other way, in stacked corpses
11:51<andythenorth>then I stopped reading
11:51<andythenorth>because I’m 37, and I’ve been reading about horrible things for at least 20 years
11:51<andythenorth>and I’ve had enough of it
11:51<@planetmaker>openbu, make a NewGRF, if you really need that.
11:51<@Alberth>or find a proper war game
11:53<@planetmaker>hm... a friend of mine is just reading through "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941" Sounded to me similarily appealing
11:54<andythenorth>there’s only so much mass slaughter that you need to understand
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11:59<openbu>ok,the newgrf of red alert 2 is coming ,
12:00<@Alberth>you know you cannot distribute copyrighted graphics, right?
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12:00<openbu>openra.org
12:01<@Alberth>fair enough
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12:02<andythenorth>minor annoyances
12:02<@Alberth>people think war is fun?
12:02<andythenorth>it’s glamorous
12:02<andythenorth>actually I’ve read some accounts of people who’ve been in wars, some people find it incredibly exciting
12:03<@Alberth>I can imagine, but it seems kind of deadly to me
12:03<andythenorth>not everyone, but some people definitely, including people who might consider themselves cowards in ordinary life
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12:04<andythenorth>if you’re a nervous person, a *real* risk of death might be more mentally manageable than other less likely risks
12:04<andythenorth>e.g. I used to find rock climbing reset my sense of risk
12:05<andythenorth>oops, not talking about trains :(
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12:05<@Alberth>you didn't go to the rock by train? :)
12:05<@Alberth>hoi f
12:06<andythenorth>nah :P
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12:11<@planetmaker>o/
12:14<frosch123>hola
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12:16<Dax>hello, could anyone help me ? I wanted to ask if there is a way to change the game's default town names
12:17<Dax>i am referring to the town names that are listed under the game options such as france, italy, etc
12:18<@planetmaker>Dax, yes, add a townname newgrf in the newgrf settings. Then its townnames shop up as an additional option in the townname dialogue
12:19<@planetmaker>s/shop/show/g
12:19<Dax>hey thanks, indeed I already seen that there was that options
12:19<Dax>option*
12:19<Dax>I was just wondering if I could instead edit those who are already in the game
12:19<@planetmaker>yes. But not without re-compiling the game
12:19<Dax>oh okay
12:19<Dax>then that's not an option I guess...
12:19<Dax>it's just that at first glance they look all made up names :(
12:19<@planetmaker>they probably are
12:20<Dax>and there is no newgrf for italian town names that I've found
12:20<Dax>i guess I will create it
12:20<@planetmaker>but thus: use a townname newgrf. If there's none, make one. It's very easy
12:20<Dax>understood
12:20<Dax>is there a tutorial anywhere?
12:20<Dax>hope it's just notepad stuff :p
12:20<@Alberth>you don't need one, it's trivial once you look at the source of an existing one
12:20<@planetmaker>yeah, that sufficies mostly, but not entirely. http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames has loads of examples
12:21<Dax>oh I see
12:21<Dax>I downloaded a couple
12:21<Dax>I can just open them with notepad right?
12:21<Dax>to check how they're made
12:22<@planetmaker>but you'll need to compile it into a NewGRF: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Getting_started
12:22<@planetmaker>you cannot exactly open an existing NewGRF; they're binary data
12:22<Dax>oh ok
12:22<Dax>yeah I just noticed
12:22<Dax>that they are not formatted "notepad like"
12:22<Dax>thanks :)
12:23<@planetmaker>yes, but notepad and that compiler suffice :)
12:23<Dax>if possible, I would happily send the file to you later if you want to add it
12:23<Dax>since it seems that nobody did italian towns...
12:23<@planetmaker>register with openttd services, upload your result to the content manager. No intervention by anyone else needed. You can do it all :)
12:23<@Alberth>wordpad is better at handling unix files, just be sure to save in plain text
12:23<Dax>I see
12:24<Dax>uh-oh I just opened your getting started link and welp
12:24<Dax>I know nothing of phyton or programming
12:24<Dax>let's see if I can understand something lol
12:24<@Alberth>you mostly need the install instructions
12:25<Dax>unfortunately I don't understand...
12:25<Dax>so i opened this link
12:25<Dax>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/LATEST/
12:25<Dax>I guess I have to get the compiler from here?
12:26<Dax>ok i guess I have to take nml-v5655-windows-win32.zip
12:26<@planetmaker>yes. Download the one which suits your OS (the file names should give it away)
12:27<@planetmaker>brb... food
12:27<@Alberth>planetmaker: CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_DECREMENT_BY_1 | 1 << 8 works w.r.t. operator priorities?
12:28<Dax>urgh I guess it's going to be too complicated for me :/
12:28<Dax>i downloaded that by the only .exe files in there open and closes itself
12:28<Dax>also I don't know a thing about phyton commands :(
12:29<@Alberth>it's not a graphical program
12:29<Dax>yeah no GUI I noticed
12:29<@Alberth>open a DOS shell (command program)
12:30<Dax>ok yes
12:30<Dax>I opened it now
12:30<Dax>but I'm still a little lost at everything
12:30<Dax>I mean, where am I supposed to write the town names now? :(
12:30<Dax>I really thought this thing was much easier at the beginning XD
12:30<@Alberth>in a .nml file, have seen an example of those?
12:31<@Alberth>+you
12:31<Dax>no, my bad, I had opened only some .grf files
12:31<Dax>where can I find an nml one?
12:32<Dax>oh ok i found this http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Town_names
12:32<Dax>should help
12:33<Dax>hmm I'm still very much confused
12:33<Dax>now I know what's the formatting like
12:33<Dax>but I don't understand where I can write these commands...
12:33<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/dtnames.nml
12:33<Dax>oh great, thank you
12:34<Dax>I can download this and edit it, right? :p
12:34<@Alberth>yeah
12:34<@Alberth>text("Horsthoek", 1), <-- this is a town name, and a chance of appearance (bigger number = more likely)
12:35<Dax>yeah I am checking with the previous NML:Town_names thing thanks :)
12:35<Dax>so I'm missing just a piece of the puzzle now
12:35<Dax>once my file is ready
12:35<Dax>I guess I should use nmlc.exe to somehow convert the nml file into grf
12:35<Dax>is that right?
12:35<Dax>where can I find the proper dos commands to do so?
12:37<Dax>also, sorry, there's this part which I'm not sure what it does\means
12:37<Dax>grf {
12:37<Dax> grfid: "DTN2";
12:37<Dax> name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
12:37<Dax> desc : string(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
12:37<Dax> url : string(STR_GRF_URL);
12:37<Dax> version : 2;
12:37<Dax> min_compatible_version : 2;
12:37<Dax>}
12:37<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puoyagkji the 'grf' part needs to be changed too, in particular the 'grfid' line
12:37<Dax>should I just leave it as it is?
12:37<Dax>oh
12:37<@Alberth>it's the identification of the grf, grfid should be unique
12:38<Dax>all right
12:38<Dax>not sure about these 'versions'
12:38<@Alberth>the other strings are in http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/lang/english.lng
12:39<openbu>visual nml 4.1.the NewGRF IDE.
12:39<@Alberth>just increment both whenever you make a new grf
12:39<@Alberth>(with changed set of names)
12:39<Dax>ok
12:39<Dax>I opened your last link but I'm slightly confused
12:39<Dax>for example I have
12:39<Dax>name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
12:40<Dax>and there it's
12:40<Dax>STR_GRF_NAME :Dutch Town Names
12:40<@Alberth>yes
12:40<Dax>which is a different formatting..
12:40<@Alberth>STR_GRF_NAME is the name of a string (a piece of text)
12:40<@Alberth>"Dutch Town Names" (without : ) is the content of the string in English
12:40<Dax>no ok
12:40<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/show/lang
12:41<Dax>that's clear, it's just the formatting that's different
12:41<@Alberth>you can have other languages too
12:41<@Alberth>yeah, it's a different file format with different history :)
12:41<Dax>sigh
12:41<Dax>so uhm
12:41<Dax>grf {
12:41<Dax> grfid: "ITLN";
12:41<Dax> name : Italian Town Names(STR_GRF_NAME);
12:41<Dax> desc : Italian Town Names(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
12:42<Dax>this wouldn't work?
12:42<Dax>or I shouldn't have changed "string" into the actual name? :x
12:42<@Alberth>no, it should stay string(STR_....); :)
12:43<Dax>ok so let's try this
12:43<@Alberth>you should make a folder with the townname.nml file, and a "lang" folder
12:43<@Alberth>and inside the "lang" folder an english.lng file like above
12:44<Dax>oh, really? even if then it's just a single grf file?
12:44<Dax>it's starting to get too complicated I fear :(
12:44<@Alberth>nml packs it all into a single grf, no worries :)
12:44<Dax>ok let's try to not give up immediately then I guess
12:44<@Alberth>townnames are a bit very tiny, so nml is a bit overkill for it
12:45<Dax>so uhm
12:45<Dax>what's confusing me a lot
12:45<Dax>is that that english.lng file
12:45<@planetmaker>you need the nml file which defines the grf and what it does. And a language file which defines the strings the grf uses
12:45<Dax>contains
12:45<Dax>##grflangid 00
12:45<Dax>STR_GRF_NAME :Dutch Town Names
12:45<Dax>STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION :Dutch Town Names (Hyronymus, 2012)
12:45<Dax>STR_GRF_URL :http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=51962
12:45<Dax>STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_DUTCH :Dutch
12:45<Dax>however
12:45<Dax>this stuff is Also in the Nlm file that I have
12:45<Dax>is this normal?
12:45<Dax>I don't get it :(
12:46<@planetmaker>STR_GRF_NAME is a name for a string. And that name can be used in the nml file
12:46<Dax>like
12:46<Dax> grfid: "ITLN";
12:46<Dax> name : string(STR_Italian_Town_Names);
12:46<Dax>?
12:46<@Alberth>you should not change the "string" lines
12:46<@planetmaker>like name: string(STR_GRF_NAME)
12:46<Dax>oh
12:46<Dax>so I should've left it as it was okay
12:46<@Alberth>nml takes the text from the .lng files, and fills it in for you
12:46<Dax>oh ok ok
12:46<Dax>I understand now
12:47<Dax>so in the nlm file i should just leave
12:47<Dax>grf {
12:47<Dax> grfid: "ITLN";
12:47<Dax> name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
12:47<Dax> desc : string(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
12:47<Dax> url : string(STR_GRF_URL);
12:47<Dax> version : 1;
12:47<Dax> min_compatible_version : 1;
12:47<Dax>only the grfid nees to be set, I guess
12:47<Dax>and then I edit that english.lng file
12:47<@Alberth>and if you make an italian.lng, that gets added too , and you can select italian language in openttd, and the newgrf speaks italian too
12:47<@planetmaker>yes
12:48<Dax>yeah that's actually important
12:48<Dax>since I'm using the game in italian
12:48<@planetmaker>for townname NewGRFs there's little point in adding translations, though
12:48<@planetmaker>except maybe for the description
12:48<Dax>oh, okay
12:48<Dax>let's just leave the description in english honestly
12:48<@planetmaker>a townname is a townname is a townname, no?
12:48<Dax>yeah
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>translateable town names could be fun :p
12:49<Dax>ok so I have the nlm file and I create a lang folder, was there anything else?
12:49<Dax>other folders or files
12:50<@planetmaker>yeah... Aix-aux-chapelle. or however it's called in French. No resemblance to Aachen ;)
12:50<@Alberth>copy the engish.lng into the lang folder
12:51<Dax>I did
12:51<Dax>editing it right now
12:51<Dax>STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_DUTCH :Dutch -> what about this line ?
12:51<@Alberth>if you want to make an italian version, copy english.lng to italian.lng
12:51<@Alberth>just change the text behind the :
12:51<Dax>no it's okay really
12:51<@planetmaker>and the grflangid in the header
12:51<Dax>##grflangid 00 should be changed into what?
12:52<@Alberth>##grflangid 27 for italian.lng
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: that line is what is written in the "town name" selection drop down in the main menu
12:52<@planetmaker>for english.lng: not at all.
12:52<Dax>no okay guys
12:52<Dax>i don't care about an italian.lng file really
12:52<Dax>let's just keep it simple please
12:52<@Alberth>ok
12:52<Dax>so what's the ID? :(
12:52<@Alberth>what it is already
12:53<Dax>00? all right
12:53<@Alberth>it's the number identifying which language it is, and 00 is UK english
12:53<Dax>oh gotcha
12:53<Dax>in the last string hough you said to change just after the :
12:53<Dax>however this would lead to
12:53<Dax>STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_DUTCH :Italian
12:53<Dax>I don't understand what this line is doing
12:53<Dax>should I just replace dutch with italian ?
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: the part on the right of the ":" is what is displayed in the game, the part on the left is what is used in the NML file to reference the string
12:54<@Alberth>you can but the STR names in the .nml and the .lng must be identical
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: the part on the left is only important for you as the developer, it can be named anything you feel comfortable with
12:55<Dax>hm
12:55<Dax>okay i found it
12:56<Dax> styles: string(STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_DUTCH);
12:56<Dax>this is in the nlm
12:56<Dax>i'll just change dutch to italian there, but i get what you're saying
12:56<@planetmaker>that's probably a part you don't want to worry about right now
12:56<Dax>no it's just to make sure it matches
12:56<@Alberth>then also change it in the .lng file, the STR names must stay the same
12:56<@planetmaker>seems that the dutch grf offers two options, dutch writing and english writing.
12:56<@planetmaker>or is it really just the name? /me checks
12:57<Dax>yes Alberth
12:57<Dax>back to the nlm file, now it's like this
12:57<Dax>grf {
12:57<Dax> grfid: "ITLN";
12:57<Dax> name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
12:57<Dax> desc : string(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
12:57<Dax> url : string(STR_GRF_URL);
12:57<Dax> version : 1;
12:57<Dax> min_compatible_version : 1;
12:57<Dax>}
12:57<Dax>town_names(A) {
12:57<Dax> styles: string(STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_ITA);
12:57<Dax> {
12:58<Dax>not sure what's "A" after town_names or if it matters and it's everything all right :p
12:58<@planetmaker>ah, it's a style... so yes, you want to change it indee
12:58<@planetmaker>indeed
12:59<@Alberth>compiling is nmlc --grf=ita_townnames.grf ita_townnames.nml
12:59<Dax>so everything is correct so far right?
12:59<Dax>oh okay
12:59<Dax>thanks :D
12:59<Dax>just another little question
12:59<@Alberth>where "ita_townnames" is probably something else :)
12:59<Dax>the towns here are named by alphabet
12:59<Dax>but I don't need to care about that I hope
13:00<Dax>I mean, in this nlm file
13:00-!-Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:00<Dax>they're like from A to Z
13:00<@Alberth>order is not important
13:00<Dax>ok
13:00<Dax>also
13:00<Dax>they are all like
13:00<Dax> text("Aan Reijans", 1),
13:00<Dax>and then
13:00<Dax>the very last one
13:00<Dax> text("Zwolle", 32),
13:00<Dax>32 ?
13:00<@Alberth>it's the chance of appearance
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: that makes "Zwolle" 32 times more likely to appear than "Aaan Reijans"
13:01<@Alberth>Zwolle has 32 times more chance of being chosen
13:01<Dax>oh I see
13:01<Dax>that's a really cool feature
13:01<Dax>all right so time to write
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>most likely this is done for lager towns that are more recognizable
13:01<Dax>oh right, last thing
13:01<Dax>so
13:01<Dax> town_names(A) {
13:01<Dax>that (A)
13:01<Dax>i don't need to care right?
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: that A will probably be referenced somewhere further down
13:02<Dax>doesn't seem so...
13:02<Dax>there's literally only the town names
13:02<Dax>and then it ends
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13:03<@Alberth>it looks unused
13:03<@Alberth>seems safe to just keep it
13:03<Dax>ok thanks
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>the specs will probably tell what it is supposed to mean
13:04<@Alberth>but you can use it to concatenate parts
13:04<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Town_names
13:05<andythenorth>so how about v2? :P
13:05<andythenorth>cos that never kills a software project :D
13:06<Dax>oh i see
13:06<Dax>so it's just to name "blocks"
13:06<Dax>like regions or whatever
13:06<Dax>i'll just don't care anyway
13:06<@Alberth>it's useful if you have some common suffixes or prefixes, and you want {random prefix}{random middle}{random suffix} names
13:07<@Alberth>like the default townnames do
13:07<Dax>only thing that concerns me a little
13:07<Dax>is that it says
13:07<Dax>town_names[(<name>)]
13:07<Dax>however, it's not formatted like that in my file
13:07<Dax>there are no [ ]
13:07<@Alberth>the [] means "the text inside is optional"
13:08<@Alberth>ie it's meta syntax
13:08<Dax>oh
13:08<Dax>all right
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13:09<Dax>is any number fine, for the "chances to appear" numbers?
13:10<Dax>i mean, they're not multiple of 2 or anything like that?
13:10-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:10<@Alberth>mostly any number is fine
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: i think in each block the numbers should add up to 256
13:10<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: false
13:10<@planetmaker>numbers in a block must add up to a number < 256
13:11<Dax>oh okay, that's important then
13:11<@Alberth>it does???
13:11<@Alberth>numbers are relative A:1 B:2 B has twice as large chance
13:12<@Alberth>A:2 B:4 B also has twice as large chance
13:13<@planetmaker>hm... not sure. But one block may not have more than 255 entries :)
13:13<@Alberth>planetmaker: it does??
13:13<@planetmaker>you need more blocks, if you want to define more town names. Yes
13:13<@Alberth>nml is pretty smart in splitting blocks you know :p
13:13<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Town_names_parts says so :)
13:13<@planetmaker>but I think you last re-vamped that part... so is it a documentation rot?
13:13<@Alberth>yeah, but nml isn't grfcodec :p
13:14<@planetmaker>that's nml docs :P
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>"If a part contains even more entries, NML tries to make it fit by creating sub-blocks. "
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>so i suppose that overrides the 256 limit
13:14<@planetmaker>hm... so ... documentation rot
13:15<Dax>I have deleted the old file but I would have been surprised if it was less than 256 names tho
13:15<Dax>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/dtnames.nml
13:15<Dax>and since every one of them is '1'
13:15<@Alberth>in my mind, you can pretty much do anything within reason
13:15<Dax>okay in fact it's 4000+
13:15<Dax>dunno
13:15<@Alberth>but it's a long time ago that I wrote that code :)
13:16<Dax>i will still keep most towns at 1 and whatever
13:16<@planetmaker>well... that block has 4k+ entries
13:16<Dax>yeah
13:16<@planetmaker>so... will be safe :)
13:16-!-DDR_ [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
13:16<@Alberth>until you hit the random number size limit of 32 bit :p
13:17<@planetmaker>:)
13:24<Dax>all right i'm done, i will add more of them maybe (did around 200) but for now i'll test
13:24<Dax>i'll try to compile now
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>a huge map with lots of towns may easily reach 3000 towns that need a unique name :p
13:26<Dax>I guess you're right..
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>you should test compile, though
13:27<Dax>I won't upload the file for now, just doing a test on local
13:27<Dax>yeah
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13:28<Dax>done
13:28<Dax>hmm
13:28<Dax>however I have only a grf file
13:28<Dax>do I need to create a .tar ?
13:28<@planetmaker>no
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>no
13:28<Dax>so i just put that in the documents
13:28<Dax>near the other ones...
13:29-!-Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>.tar is just an archive, openttd treats that like a directory, and looks for the .grf file inside
13:29<@planetmaker>Documents/OpenTTD/newgrf
13:29<Dax>hmm no there's a newgrf folder tho
13:29<Dax>yeah
13:29<Dax>ok
13:29<@planetmaker>that's for things manually downloaded or created yourself
13:29<@planetmaker>content_download is better not touched. That's for OpenTTD's usage when using ingame content download
13:30<Dax>all right, appearing in the game
13:30<Dax>let's make a test map
13:30<Dax>yeah you're right
13:30<Dax>so uhm
13:30<Dax>what happens if it finishes the names? does it go back to what's set in the game options, or just repeats those in the grf?
13:30<@planetmaker>neither. you don't get more towns
13:31<Dax>lmao
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: it'll generate 300 towns, then try 1700 more which it can't find new names for, which takes ages and doesn't put the towns down
13:32<Dax>XD
13:32<Dax>aand i failed
13:32<Dax>not sure why but it's not working...
13:32<Dax>I added it
13:32<Dax>but it made a map with the old names :(
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: you need to select the town name in the settings
13:32<Dax>let's double check then
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>just adding the grf is not enough
13:32<Dax>oh
13:33<Dax>hmmm
13:33<Dax>i'm confused
13:33<Dax>you're talking about the game options window?
13:33<@planetmaker>yup
13:34<Dax>hmm
13:34<Dax>but
13:34<Dax>it's not appearing there
13:34<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Game_options_window
13:34<Dax>yeah i'm there
13:34<Dax>but it's not in the list
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: it should be at the very bottom of the list
13:34<Dax>could it be because i did not create a italian.lang ?
13:34<Dax>let's check again
13:34<Dax>nope, it's not there :(
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>then something failed
13:35<Dax>yeah but there's something that's puzzling me
13:35<Dax>under city names:
13:35<Dax>i see austrian, french etc
13:35<Dax>but... what word would appear for my gfx file?
13:36<Dax>because i don't remember setting any kind of word to appear in this menu
13:36<Dax>so i'm not sure where it should take it from
13:36<Eddi|zuHause> styles: string(STR_GAME_OPTIONS_TOWN_NAME_ITA); <-- this one
13:37<Dax>oh
13:37<Dax>then I suspect there might be a conflict
13:37<Dax>because I had named it Italian just like the default one
13:37<Dax>or maybe not
13:37<Dax>well let's try to change it
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>that would only mean that there will be two "Italian"s
13:37<Dax>i guess so
13:37<Dax>then I don't know what's wrong
13:38<Dax>I guess i will take out that (A) thing maybe just to be sure ?
13:38<Dax>also when i compiled i never told him to search for the lang folder
13:38<Dax>did it really do it by himself?
13:39<@planetmaker>yes
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>it has a default path for that
13:39<Dax>hmm
13:39<Dax>well I don't know what's wrong here :/
13:40<Dax>let's take out that A
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably not that :p
13:40<Dax>i'd guess so
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>can you pastebin your file?
13:48<andythenorth>annoyances noticed in my last game: consist management (change the formation of all trains in a group at once); pointless difference between drive-in/drive-thru stops (drive-in are always worse); RV overtaking; can’t build docks on rivers easily; locks are 3 tiles to ‘add difficulty’ but it’s boring; can’t build station tiles on corner slopes (can be mitigated by copying station set tiles to object set); trains
13:48<andythenorth>significantly better (more ‘done’) than all other transport types
13:48<andythenorth>but eh, this is not new
13:49<andythenorth>and they’re all minor
13:50<andythenorth>the performance issues are quite bad too, and they were even worse in a Windows VM :P
13:50<andythenorth>but andythenorth uses an esoteric hardware & OS
13:52<Dax>yeah i will patebin it
13:52<andythenorth>also road-building is tedious, don’t know why, but auto-road is much worse than auto-rail
13:52<Dax>*pastebin
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>there was a guy here that wanted to make tile highlighting for autoroad. what became out of that?
13:54<Dax>does the grfid need to be referenced somewhere?
13:54<Dax>don't think so tho
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>Dax: no, it should just be different from everybody else's IDs
13:54<Dax>very likely that it is
13:55<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47192 <- there were already 3 guys in 2010
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, but i meant last week or so :p
13:55<Dax>http://pastebin.com/wwYNrAt0
13:55<Dax>at the end, there is also the content of the lang file
13:55<@Alberth>july 5
13:56<Dax>july 5?
13:57<@Alberth>the autoroad guy Eddi talked about :)
13:57<Dax>ops sorry
13:57<Dax>also i made a mistake in the pastebin
13:57<Dax>it ends with
13:57<Dax> }
13:57<Dax>}
13:57<Dax>obviously
13:57<Dax>:p
13:57<Dax>but it was only a copy paste mistake
13:57<@Alberth>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1436101097#1436101097 Eddi|zuHause
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you put the lang file not at the end but inbetween
13:58<Dax>what?
13:58<Dax>ah yeah
13:58<Dax>haha
13:58<Dax>sorry
13:58<Dax>what a mess
13:58<Dax>i'll redo it xD
13:59<Dax>http://pastebin.com/hiUPytsY
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: so patch is here: https://github.com/Mortal/openttd/compare/rav anyone care to review? :p
14:00<Dax>i noticed that in the compiler it says
14:01<Dax>nmlc info: town names: 1/128
14:01<Dax>is this normal?
14:01<frosch123>yes, you only defined "italian" townnames
14:01<frosch123>so only 1 set
14:01<Dax>hm
14:01<Dax>then what's wrong ;_; sigh
14:01<frosch123>if you would define "northern italian", "southern italian", "ancient roman", you would have 3
14:02<frosch123>Dax: nothing, it's the amount of sets you can choose in the game options
14:02<Dax>no sorry, i mean
14:02<Dax>then why it's not working in the game to me :/
14:02<Dax>or rather
14:02<Dax>it's not appearing in my game options
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it did not activate properly?
14:03<Dax>i tried activating it and closing and reopening...
14:03<Dax>http://www73.zippyshare.com/v/odn7eq7g/file.html here's the file if anyone wants to waste 5 minutes
14:04<Dax>oh crap
14:04<Dax>never mind.
14:04<Dax>I'm an idiot
14:04<Dax>i had just added it
14:04<Dax>but did not press "apply"
14:04<Dax>sigh
14:05<Dax>now it's there
14:05<Dax>sorry :/
14:05<Dax>time to test
14:05<Dax>then i'll add cities an upload it...
14:05<@Alberth>\o/
14:05<Dax>yup it's working ^_^
14:06<Dax>thank you so much!
14:11<@planetmaker>:)
14:13*andythenorth wonders how to get a patch from github
14:13<andythenorth>must be a ‘raw’ diff somewhere
14:13<frosch123>you need to add ".diff" or ".patch" to the url
14:13<frosch123>one of those
14:14<andythenorth>yay
14:14<andythenorth>hidden nav :)
14:14<andythenorth>https://github.com/Mortal/openttd/compare/rav.diff
14:15<andythenorth>Linter failure on sprite 4252.
14:16*andythenorth pokes
14:16<andythenorth>grfcodec r986
14:17<andythenorth>looks new enough http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository
14:17<frosch123>make a patch to remove nforenum from ottd :)
14:18<andythenorth>:P
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: basically anything that adds to openttd.grf also needs a patch to nforenum
14:27<andythenorth>ah
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>i think the real problem is that nforenum treats "i don't know about this bit" as "THIS IS CRITICAL ERROR! HALT!"
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>and the makefile exaggerates this even further
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>you could just change the makefile to ignore renum errors, but that may be not desireable also, depending on the seriousness of the error
14:29<frosch123>the real problem is that all that nforenum does on openttd.grf is setting the number of sprites at the beginning
14:29<andythenorth>impedance mismatch :)
14:30<andythenorth>this is why there are only about 7 people in the world who can add actual features to openttd :)
14:30<andythenorth>I have abused the term badly :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_impedance_mismatch
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, things like this stopped me from pursuing a project multiple times already
14:35<andythenorth>if we removed them, you’d have to find other reasons :)
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm a hopeless case anyway :p
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>try helping the me from 3 years ago :p
14:37<andythenorth>ha :)
14:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you don’t enjoy yak-shaving? o_O http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Y/yak-shaving.html
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>no. i write code generators for that :p
14:41<andythenorth>I think that is yak-shaving :P
14:41<andythenorth>so how about ignore all the silly little annoyances, and go for something big?
14:42<andythenorth>add a new transport type (packets) and rework roads AND water
14:42<andythenorth>that would be a nice v2
14:42<andythenorth>and it’s a hard problem
14:42<andythenorth>introducing lots of nice new bugs, UI, spec and game balance issues
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sure. but that inevitably gets to a point to add sprites, which brings us to the exact location where it failed the last time
14:43<andythenorth>ha :)
14:43<andythenorth>it is essential that openttd.grf is compiled with openttd though?
14:43<@planetmaker>frosch123, so, numbering all sprites explicitly in openttd.grf would do the trick... would we really want that?
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, and if you don't have grfcodec installed it will just skip it
14:44<frosch123>iirc grfcodec prints a warning, so it would even get noticed
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it will just use the previously compiled .grf
14:45<andythenorth>but if the previously compiled grf misses the sprites...
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: this piece is only there for religious zealots who want EVERYTHING to be compiled from source
14:46<andythenorth>we respect them highly though no?
14:46<andythenorth>because they submit lots of useful patches?
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can fairly easily compile the grf manually
14:46<andythenorth>and we wouldn’t get packaged on major distros if you couldn’t 100% build from source?
14:46<andythenorth>cos nobody ever uses pre-build game art packages or anything
14:47<andythenorth>built *
14:47<+michi_cc>Debian insists. And half the other distros take from Debian.
14:48*andythenorth tries to make a counter argument, fails to find any
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14:49<andythenorth>hmm, the most fun thing about my last game was the requirement to totally change my play style
14:50<andythenorth>to suit cdist behaviour at secondary industries with multiple destinations
14:50<andythenorth>new rules => new game, ish
14:51<andythenorth>the amusing fallacy in that
14:52<andythenorth>is that my ‘new rules’ essentially neutralise cdist, by providing one station for every source-destination pair
14:52<andythenorth>and never connecting any links for secondary cargo
14:53<andythenorth>so there are many linkgraphs composed of single directed links
14:53<andythenorth>what larks
14:55<@Alberth>hmm, 290 tonnes of wood from a forest in 1934 :)
14:56<andythenorth>not much :)
14:56<andythenorth>deliver supplies :P
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>wood cutting supplies?
14:56<@Alberth>tree multipliers
14:56<andythenorth>moar axes
14:57<Supercheese>more lumberjacks
14:57<andythenorth>new cb
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>you have my axe
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>and my sword
14:57<andythenorth>‘industry occasionally plants trees'
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>and my bow
14:57<andythenorth>:P
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>[in wrong order, probably]
14:57<andythenorth>can we set a ‘sustainable forestry bit’ for ‘industry cuts trees’?
14:58<andythenorth>‘industry plants one tree for every tree cut'
14:58<andythenorth>‘deliver supplies regularly and industry will plant more trees’
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's what the temperate forest is supposed to represent, right?
14:58<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yes :)
14:58*andythenorth is just dicking around
15:00<Dax>hey guys
15:01<Dax>i just finished my pack
15:01<Dax>i forgot how I can upload it though on the community...
15:01<Dax>i need to register to the forum ?
15:01<Supercheese>you need to register with Bananas at least
15:01<Supercheese>https://account.openttd.org/
15:03<Dax>thanks
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>if you want feedback from users, a forum post probably helps ;)
15:07<frosch123>unless you want useful feedback :p
15:10<andythenorth>you can’t predict in advance :)
15:10<andythenorth>well, you can statistically :P
15:11<andythenorth>sometimes forums are valuable
15:15<andythenorth>sometimes the value of forum comments is inestimable :P
15:19<Dax>well honestly I don't know what feedback I could expect on a bunch of city names :p
15:20<Dax>hmm I'm logged into the Bananas
15:20<Dax>but I can't see any submit content button or stuff like that
15:20<Supercheese>https://bananas.openttd.org/manager/
15:20<Dax>ah, thanks
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>typically a bunch of "nice" and "well done", before anyone complains that the whole thread consists only of "nice"s and "well done"s
15:21<Dax>i have to sign up
15:21<Dax>XD
15:23<andythenorth>then a complaint about the unrealistic payment model, and a request for subways
15:23<andythenorth>‘unrealistic’ :P
15:24<Supercheese>I tried to give the masses their subways
15:24<Supercheese>not sure it caught on
15:25*andythenorth wonders if newgrf can do distance-neutral cargo payment
15:25<andythenorth>for the idiots :P
15:26<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=73310 claims it can, it seems
15:26<Dax>just one tiny problem left
15:26<Dax>i have no clue how to make .tar archives
15:26<Dax>to pack it with the readme file
15:27<Dax>i guess openttd won't read .zip or .rar ?
15:27<@Alberth>you guessed right :p
15:27<Supercheese>think it reads .zip
15:27<@Alberth>:o
15:27<Supercheese>I upload my grf bundles as .zips
15:27<frosch123>yes, a zip with readme.txt and the .grf should work
15:27<Supercheese>seems to take
15:27<Dax>great
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15:32<Dax>hmmm nope my openTTD doesn't see it :( it's not appearing in the newGRF options when it's zipped
15:32<Dax>dunno
15:33<frosch123>well, yes, openttd does not understand it
15:33<frosch123>but bananas
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, openttd won't read the zip, but bananas wil repack it into a tar with the right files
15:34<Dax>oh!
15:34<Dax>i see now :)
15:34<Dax>thanks
15:36<Dax>it asks me for a minimum openTTD version...
15:37<Dax>honestly I have no idea, I'm guessing it should be compatible with all?
15:38<frosch123>select 1.2
15:38<Dax>thanks
15:38<frosch123>nmlc compiles for >= 1.2
15:38<frosch123>the .grf format changed back then
15:39<Dax>i see
15:39<Dax>oh god it wants a license and won't let me go further otherwise
15:39<Dax>but I don't care -_-
15:39<@planetmaker>select gplv2
15:39<@planetmaker>or cc-0
15:39<andythenorth>we should add wtfpl
15:39<@planetmaker>if you don't care
15:39<Dax>all right
15:39<frosch123>use cc-0, gpl is too much work with sources :)
15:40<@planetmaker>true
15:40<Dax>too late XD
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15:40<@Alberth>Dax: not having a license means you don't want others to use and distribute it
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15:40<Dax>Alberth I wrote on my readme about that
15:40<Dax>but when I tried to select Custo
15:40<Dax>*Custom
15:41<Dax>it said that "it couldn't find a custom licence" and I don't know what it wanted
15:41<@planetmaker>it needs then a license.txt
15:41<Dax>amen :p
15:41<@planetmaker>as openttd has buttons for both, readme and license
15:41<@planetmaker>if you ever looked at a newgrf in the newgrf selection window you could know ;)
15:42<Dax>yeah i did see them
15:42<Dax>but I thought it was just people being precise
15:42<Dax>btw it's uploaded
15:43<Dax>at the moment it appears in black though, not sure if it's because it needs time
15:43<Dax>i mean, non-clickable
15:43<Dax>https://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/
15:43<Dax>no sorry
15:43<Dax>i think it's time i go to sleep
15:43<Dax>that's 'cause i didn't set any URL :p
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15:43<Dax>i'll try to download the .gz now
15:44<Supercheese>it does take a short time before the download link appears
15:44<Dax>actually no, let's try from OpenTTD
15:44<Dax>no Supercheese it was me being stupid no worries
15:44<frosch123>Supercheese: i think it is pretty instant these days
15:44<@planetmaker>the website download link is different from the ingame one
15:45<frosch123>the mirror scripts took some evolution classes :)
15:45<Dax>yeah planetmaker i downloaded it from openttd
15:46<Dax>seems fine, just need to launch a game and i'm done
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15:47<Dax>working fine
15:47<Dax>thanks to all who helped :D
15:47<Dax>bye ^^
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15:49<@planetmaker>now that was a pleasant surprise :) Not often a user comes, wants a grf and immediately makes it himself
15:51-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-53-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
15:51<Wolf01>hi hi
15:52<frosch123>there is our resident italian guy :)
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16:52<__ln__>http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-33479808
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16:58<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: is there that much difference between the languages?
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17:31<Dax>sigh
17:31<Dax>i know some people already saw my thread but I'm having some problems with the game: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73320&p=1152397#p1152397
17:31<Dax>appreciate anyone who could offer help :/
17:32<Dax>a simple question: will my in-game settings be resetted if i uninstall and reinstall it?
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17:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes. settings are stored in Documents\OpenTTD. uninstalling does not touch that
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>eh. i mean no, i misread your question
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>for resetting, you need to delete openttd.cfg in that same place
17:59<Dax>no no you read it right
17:59<Dax>i just wanted to have a backup of my current settings
17:59<Dax>so that I could understand if it's something there indeed or not
17:59<Dax>since I actually had tweaked them a lot, and if that's not where the problem is, so that I won't have to do it again :)
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>sure, just make a copy of that entire folder before messing with stuff
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18:02<Dax>I actually did something more simple
18:02<Dax>instead of uninstalling
18:02<Dax>i deleted the cfg file to re-set things to zero
18:02<Dax>of course i kept a backup
18:02<Dax>i'm testing now
18:02<Dax>ok nope, didn't change anything :(
18:05<Dax>silly question: is there any way to rotate the visuals btw?
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18:15<Dax>nvm found a thread, doesn't seem so. would've been cool to at least rotate the minimap
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18:37<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 15 00:00:10 2015