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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-16

---Logopened Thu Jul 16 00:00:11 2015
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01:31<V453000>hmmm for some reason openttd under win8 is doing seriously strange things
01:32<V453000>mouse scrolling seems strangely broken, resolution of texts does not seem to be 1:1 with screen resolution, openttd icon is super low-res for some reason
01:32<V453000>wtf :0
01:32<V453000>I guess resolution of everything, not just texts
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01:34<@Rubidium>V453000: welcome to Windows' automatic scaling?
01:35<V453000>wtf is that :0
01:35<V453000>hm, the scrolling seems fixed when I swapped it to left mouse button, I wonder if my mouse is ok
01:36<V453000>Rubidium: is there a way to disable the scaling? O_O
01:38<@Rubidium>no idea, I rather stay at Windows 9x for compatability reasons than using Windows 8 or 10 ;)
01:38<peter1138>Control panel?
01:39<V453000>I just got a laptop with win8 and the bullshit is unreal
01:39<V453000>idk, searching that peter1138
01:39<peter1138>I thought the scaling was only for text though, tbh.
01:40<peter1138>Control Panel > Appearance and Personalization > Display
01:40<peter1138>Or something. I've never used 8.1
01:40<V453000>yeah that but I dont see how to turn it off XD
01:41<V453000>ok I think I found it
01:41<andythenorth>o/
01:41<V453000>lets see
01:42<V453000>lmfao
01:42<V453000>of course it also fixed the openttd scrolling with RMB
01:42<V453000>well done microsoft
01:42<V453000>AND I couldnt see the menu in openttd before XD
01:43<andythenorth>well at least your ‘full animation’ works V453000 ;)
01:43<V453000>another cute thing, while typing and switching language, the retarded system also translates everything
01:43<V453000>lol
01:43<andythenorth>no black squares for you
01:43<peter1138>my tablet just says "can't change the size of items on this display"
01:43<andythenorth>and you can ffwd
01:43<V453000>xd
01:44<V453000>btw is it just me or is roughness majorly broken with the new generation?
01:45<peter1138>my screen is smooth
01:45<V453000>it seems to me like all maps are like very smooth/smooth from the old, and the roughness only controls tiny little noise, like dot-hills in the game
01:46<peter1138>variety causes that usually
01:46<andythenorth>variety was always broken :)
01:47<V453000>whenever I set variety distribution to be on, it creates a flat land,and flat mountains ... kind of binary flat, OR all the way uphill
01:47<andythenorth>I am getting very weird coasts / islands compared to 1.5 or whatever the older version was
01:47<andythenorth>but eh, might just be random seed
01:47<andythenorth>maps is maps is maps
01:47<V453000>yesterday I discovered that openttdcoop people only use heightmaps now, the generator is just unusable
01:47<V453000>OR generate in 1.4.0
01:48<V453000>for people who used variety distribution or very smooth maps it works nice
01:48<V453000>for anything else nope
01:48-!-zuu [~Zuu@79.138.131.107.mobile.tre.se] has joined #openttd
01:50<andythenorth>V453000: I honestly don’t think it’s worse
01:50<andythenorth>just differently bad
01:50<andythenorth>flat-topped mountains are back, which is….nice :)
01:50<andythenorth>‘nice’ :P
01:50<V453000>it is the same, with many things that were possible before, are now impossible
01:50<V453000>it is just cut down to basically 3 kinds of maps
01:51<V453000>flat, very smooth, very smooth with smooth huge hills
01:52<peter1138>heh, my git repo was on r27052
01:52<peter1138>been a while
01:52<V453000>I didnt even ask if you have a patch for that :P
01:53<zuu>V: I read you recently got maried. Congratulations to you :-)
01:53<andythenorth>V453000: also flat with occasional round-ish hills
01:53<V453000>yeah last saturday :) thanks
01:53<andythenorth>V453000: put it back on original map gen. terragensis is crap
01:54<V453000>that is a nice option but instead I will generate in 1.4.0 and turn it to heightmap through SE
01:55<peter1138>1.5.0 seems to generate fine for me
01:56<andythenorth>we should just make 99 heightmaps
01:56<andythenorth>and ship those
01:56<andythenorth>even in 10 years, I doubt I’ve played 99 separate OpenTTD games :P
01:56<andythenorth>I’ve *started* many many more games looking for a decent map :P
01:56<peter1138>head seems broken though
01:57<zuu>And add a GUI that make you believe the map was generated?
01:57<V453000>zuu XD
01:57<V453000>win
01:57<andythenorth>yes, thinking the same
01:57<andythenorth>also 99 * 4 rotations
01:57<V453000>now that is pure evil :D
01:57*andythenorth used similar techniques in flash games :P
01:58<andythenorth>especially if a list of ‘used’ heightmaps could be persisted in cfg, so that none are repeated until all have been seen :P
01:59<zuu>You could still add some meta tags to the 99 maps so the GUI is kind of a search engine.
01:59<peter1138>just take them in order and remember the last used one, heh
01:59<peter1138>or better yet, fix the generator
01:59<andythenorth>oh you proper programmers :(
01:59<andythenorth>and your dislike of cunning hacks :(
02:00<andythenorth>when you can’t program properly, you have to be....inventive
02:03<zuu>Andy: I read you got bored by NewGRF, shall I post on forums for someone interested in testing gs -> grf patch? I'm on a ship thougt so the post will be later on as I expect my internet to drop at some point.
02:03<andythenorth>yeah, put it in forums :)
02:04<andythenorth>it’s something I want to test, but stuff...
02:04<zuu>np
02:04<andythenorth>dunno if I’d get to it before August :)
02:06*V453000 is about to actually play the game
02:06<zuu>:-)
02:09<zuu>Oh now its less than 12 hours for my ship to arrive :-)
02:10<zuu>Ships are slow.. we all know.
02:10<peter1138>r27230 fucks it up
02:11<andythenorth>V453000: the game is good
02:11<andythenorth>I have been playing it
02:11<andythenorth>it’s a really good game
02:11<V453000>really?
02:11<andythenorth>yes
02:11<V453000>got to try it
02:11<V453000>no newgrfs for now
02:12<andythenorth>no GS either?
02:12<V453000>MAYBE a bit of static wip stuff
02:12<V453000>GS is for noobs
02:12<zuu>Real players play it RAW?
02:13<andythenorth>wow, V453000 is playing with the stabilisers off :O
02:13<andythenorth>how will this go?
02:13<V453000>stabilizers?
02:13<andythenorth>http://www.cyclesprog.co.uk/wp-content/themes/cyclesprog/timthumb.php?src=/wp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FGirls_on_Stabiliser_Bikes_Fotolia_39486595_S1.jpg&w=375&h=275&q=100
02:14<V453000>lol
02:14<andythenorth>most newgrfs make the game worse
02:18<V453000>am just making a sort of tutorial savegame, so would fit to make it in default environment
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02:19<andythenorth>hope V’s boat didn’t sink :o
02:19<andythenorth>Zuu / V /s
02:19<V453000>:)
02:19<V453000>also, first crash of firefox with html youtube
02:20<andythenorth>:P
02:22<peter1138>Oh, r27232, sorry.
02:23*andythenorth forgives peter1138 for all his crimes
02:23<peter1138>Still, 3 months ago.
02:24<andythenorth>I stopped building because my checkouts broke
02:24<andythenorth>:P
02:26<peter1138>Shame nobody bothered to report a bug
02:26<V453000>probably nobody used that new revision
02:26<V453000>I updated to it yesterday
02:26<peter1138>V453000, 3 MONTHS ago.
02:26<V453000>well yeah
02:26<V453000>and who would you expect to use trunk
02:27<V453000>ok we got 299 atm
02:27<andythenorth>do people actually *download* nightlies? :o
02:27<peter1138>Whoever it was who said it was broken..
02:27<peter1138>06:47 < V453000> yesterday I discovered that openttdcoop people only use heightmaps now, the generator is just unusable
02:27<peter1138>like the openttdcoop people
02:28<V453000>well yeah
02:28<peter1138>(isn't pm an openttdcoop person?)
02:28<V453000>is
02:28<V453000>but that doesnt mean he is active
02:28<V453000>pm is innocent here :P
02:28<andythenorth>none of us are ‘innocent’ :P
02:28<peter1138>didn't say otherwise
02:29<andythenorth>hmm
02:29<andythenorth>if I set some high debug level at some point in the past, might that explain insanly slow OpenTTD performance?
02:29<V453000>I will scramble some reasonable bug report today
02:30<V453000>yes
02:30*andythenorth thinks the pre-built binaries might run a bit faster than the self-built
02:40<@planetmaker>indeed it's months that I really *played* on an openttd server :D
02:40<@planetmaker>moin
02:43<andythenorth>lo planetmaker
02:46<andythenorth>is the debug level persistent anywhere, or is only a command line parameter?
02:55<peter1138>command line only
02:58<andythenorth>ta
03:03<peter1138>planetmaker, played... whoever played ottd? :D
03:04<andythenorth>I have played at least once on peter1138’s server
03:04<andythenorth>dunno if peter1138 was playing though :P
03:07<peter1138>yes
03:07<peter1138>that was years ago
03:10<andythenorth>maybe even two
03:10*andythenorth tried to make Pikka add more trains to UKRS 2
03:10<andythenorth>that went well :)
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05:00<@planetmaker>hm... http://openttd.btpro.nl/forum/28-tournaments/2466-busy-bee-special-tournament#4470
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10:54<@Alberth>moin
10:57<andythenorth>o
10:57<andythenorth>o/
10:57<andythenorth>even
10:57<@Alberth>e
10:57<@Alberth>ev
10:57<@Alberth>eve
10:57<@Alberth>even
10:57<andythenorth>:)
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12:10<ade>HELLO,ALL,
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12:21<@Alberth>o/
12:22<@planetmaker>\o
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12:33<@Alberth>moin
12:37<frosch123>hoi
12:39<frosch123>r27232 looks indeed pretty much bollocks
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12:39<frosch123>all the numbers are the same, while they were not before
12:43<frosch123>revert?
12:43<andythenorth>:)
12:43<andythenorth>call it a feature
12:44<andythenorth>‘improved terrain generator'
12:46<andythenorth>“I get these hundreds of trains. Not really knowing much about the trains and history or, heck, even what a train is really supposed to do, how do I know what train I should use for each task?"
12:46<andythenorth>I wanted to reply helpfully to this
12:47<andythenorth>@seen kamnet
12:47<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: kamnet was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <kamnet> no dumplings for you
12:47<andythenorth>but my ‘helpful’ seemed like trolling when I read it :(
12:47<@Alberth>you kill the newgrf?
12:47<andythenorth>I just feel that the horse has bolted, and the stable door is no longer even in existence
12:47<andythenorth>the horse is galloped miles away
12:48<andythenorth>for 2CC set ‘which is the right train’ is not even a valid question
12:48<andythenorth>‘which train do I like?’ perhaps
12:48<@Alberth>oh, for iron horse?
12:49<@Alberth>frosch123: I think it would help if we knew what we intend to have?
12:49<andythenorth>Alberth: was a question in the 2CC set thread ;)
12:49<@Alberth>basically, I am fine with any number, as I have no idea what we should aim for
12:49<@Alberth>andy, yeah, I would exect so :p
12:50<@Alberth>but I think the answer is the same, use something you understand
12:51<frosch123>Alberth: it looks like copy&paste and forgotten to me
12:51<frosch123>it makes no sense to have roughness only affect the lowest and highest amplitude
12:51<frosch123>*frequency
12:51<andythenorth>what, you don’t love flat mountain tops?
12:51<andythenorth>:P
12:52<frosch123>the highest is only small pinches
12:52<frosch123>makes the lowest frquency differs as the only one makes even less sense
12:52<@Alberth>ok :)
12:53<@planetmaker>indeed. That sounds strange :)
12:53<@Alberth>flat mountain tops are useful for forests :)
12:54<andythenorth>and industries
12:54<andythenorth>but they look daft :)
12:54<andythenorth>unless they’ve been mined for coal :P
12:54<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountaintop_removal_mining
12:55<@Alberth>you know the highest 'mountain' we have here is around 100m, right?
12:55<andythenorth>so you made a Dutch landscape generator? o_O
12:55<andythenorth>nice, but quite specific to you Alberth :P
12:56<@Alberth>:)
12:57<@Alberth>sounds like a nice disaster, move half the mountain into the nearby vallley :p
13:01<andythenorth>tectonic GS
13:01<andythenorth>how much land can GS raise/lower in a cycle?
13:03<@Alberth>just use slow-motion dynamite :)
13:05*andythenorth ponders a land-building GS
13:05<andythenorth>that fills in the sea
13:05<andythenorth>‘waterworld’
13:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27334 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2015-07-16 19:05:40 +0200 )
13:05<@DorpsGek>-Revert (r27232) [FS#6342]: No idea what the plan was, but making the main noise coefficients the same for all smoothness types certainly wasn't.
13:05<andythenorth>start from a tiny island
13:06<@Alberth>sort of conquer the west, but instead raise the land
13:07<andythenorth>yup
13:07<andythenorth>similar
13:07<andythenorth>different concepts
13:15<andythenorth>hmm
13:15<andythenorth>could be a use for building materials
13:17<__ln__>https://github.com/tessalt/echo-chamber-js
13:17<@Alberth>:D andy
13:18<andythenorth>I think there is lots of possibility in GS....
13:18<andythenorth>much gameplay
13:19*andythenorth should test Zuu’s GS->newgrf patch
13:19<andythenorth>but work
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13:19<@planetmaker>hm... that would allow also interesting gameplay with (much) land at sea level. A GS which destroys dams randomly. And on the ohter hand also creates new land at sea level :)
13:20<Taede>ello
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27335 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2015-07-16 19:45:15 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 24 changes by Jubilee
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14:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: Dutch GS? o_O
14:03<andythenorth>might need a scenario map :P
14:04<@Alberth>nah, we don't have floodings :p
14:10<@Rubidium>planetmaker: number 3 of my "bad for AI" scenarios
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14:34*andythenorth wonders what the worst possible GS would be for AIs
14:36<frosch123>randomly bulldoze tracks
14:37<frosch123>stop vehicles
14:37<frosch123>drain money
14:37<frosch123>corruption gs
14:37*andythenorth ponders stock market GS
14:38<andythenorth>“do you want to buy on margin?”
14:38<frosch123>difficulty level: bavaria, russia, india
14:39<andythenorth>:P
14:39*andythenorth should start on frontier GS
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14:39<andythenorth>I don’t really understand GS
14:39<andythenorth>but that’s no barrier eh?
14:42<@planetmaker>Rubidium, I had been thinking of that scenario, yes
14:46*andythenorth tries to debug “Broken savegame - Too many NewGRF entity mappings”
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14:47<Wolf01>hi o/
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14:47<andythenorth>wondering if I had a locally applied patch
14:47<andythenorth>hmm that would be it
14:48<frosch123>the first version of more industries
14:48<andythenorth>two different checkouts, one with patch, one without. Savegame not portable between them
14:48<andythenorth>yup
14:48<andythenorth>so this is not a bug
14:48*andythenorth moves along
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14:53<andythenorth>what config option do I set to silence sound effects on game screen?
14:54<@Rubidium>put duct tape on your mouth? ;)
14:54*andythenorth tries it
14:54<andythenorth>brb
15:28<@Alberth>are dairies supposed to have "mill" stations?
15:28<frosch123>likely
15:29<frosch123>both are agricultural things
15:31<@Alberth>well, it also opens a "power plant" station near a steel mill, so I am not trusting name schemes of the new firs very much :p
15:32<frosch123>electrical steel furnace :p
15:32<frosch123>you can build them in factorio
15:33<frosch123>but coal furnaces are more interesting
15:34<@Alberth>:)
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15:39<andythenorth>Alberth: have a word with the authors of that ;)
15:42<frosch123>i think the idea was really fancy
15:42<frosch123>but noone gets it :p
15:42*andythenorth gets it :)
15:44<@Alberth>industry would need more sparkles then :)
15:44<frosch123>sparkles are for unicorns :)
15:46<andythenorth>unicorn farm
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17:45<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 17 00:00:12 2015