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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-28

---Logopened Tue Jul 28 00:00:27 2015
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04:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27344 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2015-07-28 10:16:52 +0200 )
04:17<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Documenting the (Re)setObjectToPlace functions.
04:26<@planetmaker>\o/
04:28<@Alberth>just 3 functions, nothing really exciting :)
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04:31<Supercheese>zounds
04:34<@planetmaker>yes, I saw the patches yesterday. Docs are useful, too :)
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06:11<@Alberth>hi hi
06:12<Wolf01>o/
06:15<Wolf01>now I have... no more space in my room :|
06:16<Wolf01>it's filled with lego, and now I brought home the boxes I had at the workplace
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06:29<@Alberth>move out to the work place
06:29<Wolf01>I just moved out from the work place
06:30<@Alberth>throw away old lego, or find a good home for it
06:30<Wolf01>they are all new, I started to purchase them 2 years ago :D
06:31<@Alberth>you doubted that the lego factories could manufacture enough lego to fill your house?
06:32<@Alberth>hmm, maybe you can use the lego to enlarge your house?
06:32<Wolf01>that was a project
06:33<Wolf01>but I discarded it because I'm worried of rain coming down when I use some pieces for a moc
06:38<@Alberth>only one solution, stop collecting
06:38<Wolf01>too late
06:59<Wolf01>does anybody of you uses flixster?
07:05<__ln__>*does anybody of you use
07:05<Wolf01>I was expecting that, thank you ;)
07:05<__ln__>unless you're talking bjarni english
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: btw they now say the uboat is from WWI
07:16<__ln__>yeah they do. but it is russian like they suspected!
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07:42<argoneus>guys
07:42<argoneus>nevermind
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>whenever anyone says that, i mind even more
08:23<Wolf01>me too
08:25*V453000 gives precisely zero shit
08:26<Wolf01>me too... but I'm bipolar
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09:21<Quatroking>what is the easiest way to figure out how much HP the engine of a train needs in order to pull its load without a lot of effort?
09:22<@planetmaker>build it and try
09:23<__ln__>what it if need a lot of effort nevertheless, but it just looks easy because of the high HP?
09:23<__ln__>*needs
09:23<@planetmaker>Quatroking, if it's unsatisfactorily, use auto-replace to change the engine to something better
09:24<Quatroking>is there no formula used or something?
09:25<@planetmaker>there's so many variables, including how the vehicle behaves, how many wagons you have, what steepness you have, how big your slopes are, definition of 'lot of effort'...
09:26<Quatroking>I guess that's true
09:26<@planetmaker>otherwise you can just take the steepness, the weight, the tractive effort, the horse power and do the normal physics
09:26<@planetmaker>but that's not necessarily 'easy' anymore :)
09:26<Quatroking>then there's also wether I use realistic accerelation vs classic
09:26<@planetmaker>https://wiki.openttd.org/Tractive_Effort
09:28<@Alberth>don't forget about the track layout
09:29<Quatroking>I try to keep my corners as wide as possible and I avoid slopes
09:30<@Alberth>ok, not everybody does that
09:38<Quatroking>is it possible to have the "vehicle xxx made no profit last year" message ignore certain vehicles
09:38<Quatroking>I have a boat that takes longer than a year to make a round trip
09:39<@Alberth>nope
09:40<Quatroking>aww
09:40<@Alberth>tbh I am not sure it's bad not to have it
09:40<@Alberth>a year is an awful long distance
09:41<Quatroking>It's a big ship that goes to fishing grounds, loads up 500 tons and then comes back
09:41<@Alberth>it makes sense to get some money from each vehicle each year
09:42<Quatroking>it profits a couple thousand
09:42<@Alberth>yeah, but perhaps 500 tons is too big
09:42<Quatroking>You mean replace it with smaller boats?
09:42<@Alberth>or you need to add more fishing grounds
09:42<@Alberth>smaller boats would work
09:43<@Alberth>less profit in total probably, but maybe you get more fish
09:43<@Alberth>as your delivery time is shorter
09:43<@Alberth>depends on the industry
09:45<@Terkhen>hello
09:45<@Alberth>hello T
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09:53<Quatroking>Alberth, figured out a solution, I put a harbor on an island between the fishing grounds and the harbor and put a dock there
09:54<Quatroking>~5 boats now dump their load there for transfer, and it all gets picked up by a tanker
09:56<@Alberth>seems nice :)
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09:57<Quatroking>Works pretty well so far
09:57<@Alberth>I often do that transfer at one of the fishing grounds :)
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>that's problematic if multiple people load cargo :p
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10:24<argoneus>man
10:24<argoneus>I will never figure out how to make networks without making awkward terminus stations
10:24<argoneus>when I look at ottdcoop saves, the map just flows with short trains
10:24<argoneus>no awkward places
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10:25<@Alberth>when a professional it does, it always looks easy :)
10:25<@planetmaker>argoneus, those games are many many man-hours of network building and optimizing :)
10:26<@planetmaker>also, terminus are not necessarily awkward
10:26<argoneus>I wish there were like
10:26<argoneus>what is it called
10:26<argoneus>like when you see progress update every 30 minutes
10:26<argoneus>from the beginning
10:26<argoneus>timelapse!
10:27<@Alberth>the important question is, is your current game improving over your previous game?
10:27<argoneus>I'm not sure
10:27<argoneus>like my normal game is something like
10:27<argoneus>find a good coal mine and a well-distanced refinery
10:28<argoneus>connect them to make initial money with a 2track, then find another coal mine along the way and connect that to the railroad, then expand this network
10:28<argoneus>then start hating myself because every train has to go all the way because I didn't make any feeder stations and terminus stations look weird
10:28<@Alberth>coal to refinery?
10:28<argoneus>power plant*
10:28<argoneus>then look up openttdcoop saves and see all the roros how it flows with short trains
10:28<argoneus>then go here and whine
10:28<argoneus>that's my usual flowchart these days
10:29<@Alberth>coop does hours and hours of pre-planning
10:29<@Alberth>they don't just jump in and build
10:29<argoneus>this reminds me
10:29<argoneus>there's a server where people race who can make most money in 3 years right
10:29<argoneus>or 10 years or something like that
10:30<argoneus>I could try finding recordings of that
10:30<@Alberth>I prefer to just start, like you, and do a lot of changes as the network expands
10:30<@Alberth>max amount of money doesn't sound like a nice goal to me, tbh
10:31<@Alberth>you considered just change the network when you don't like some part of it?
10:31<argoneus>but I'm not sure -how- to change it
10:32<@Alberth>"I want a feeder station" seems pretty clear :)
10:32<argoneus>like, it makes money and trains sometimes get stuck on it, but it works
10:32<argoneus>but I don't know how to improve it
10:32<argoneus>yeah but I don't know how to make a feeder station out of a junction
10:32<argoneus>or if I should even do that
10:32<argoneus>to be fair it's hard to "lose" at this game
10:32<argoneus>I just want my networks to be pretty, but I can't figure out what it is that makes them pretty
10:33<@Alberth>the simplest way to find out is try it
10:34<@Alberth>I work at a very concrete level; I watch the trains, and decide they should behave differently at some point
10:34<argoneus>what length trains do you generally use?
10:34<argoneus>I use 7 but it looks weird af
10:34<@Alberth>then I figure out how to achieve that (hopefully), and just try it
10:34<argoneus>I'm considering 3 or 5
10:34<@Alberth>my stations are mostly 5 tiles
10:34<@Alberth>for industries
10:35<@Alberth>7 for pax, as you get much of those :)
10:35<@Alberth>but even at station length 5, my trains are usually shorter 3.5 - 4.5 or so
10:36<argoneus>hmm
10:36<argoneus>anyway, at ottdcoop they plan things out thoroughly before even placing anything?
10:36<@Alberth>yep
10:39<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Planning this is about planning
10:40<argoneus>hm
10:40<@Alberth>which is of course needed if you build with several people and want something that works as a whole :)
10:42<@planetmaker>argoneus, every map we play has a plan as to what we want to do with it. It decides on train length, the engines and tracks used and which (secondary) industries or towns will be services (approximately) in a sketchy way
10:43<@planetmaker>s/services/serviced/
10:43<@planetmaker>it also and especially decides where roughly the main tracks are about to go
10:52<@Alberth>did you ever try a game with BusyBee?
10:52<@Alberth>that script gives you lots of small transport goals
10:52<argoneus>never heard of it
10:53<@Alberth>your network gets scattered over the map, and you connect things you normally would never do
10:53<argoneus>isn't that bad when learning how to network?
10:53<argoneus>when I can't even plan properly
10:54<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72498
10:54<@Alberth>well, it depends on how you want to play
10:55<@Alberth>indeed BB encourages you to gradually change and extend your network
10:55<V453000>HENCE BAD :>
10:55<@Alberth>if you are more of the 'one big bang' type, then BB isn't for you
10:55<V453000>:P
10:55<argoneus>I just want to be able to make nice looking networks :(
10:55<argoneus>I can make profitable networks, but they don't look nice
10:56<V453000>I liked how YACD added destinations as industries were growing, but the existing lines were necessary as well
10:56<@Alberth>I had loads of trouble to survive with yacd
10:56<@Alberth>maybe it doesn't play well with industries
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10:59<@Alberth>I think to get further you have to get into more detail of what you don't like
10:59<argoneus>well
11:00<argoneus>my stations are usually terminus stations, where my trains go in and then go back to wherever they came from
11:00<argoneus>but the ottdcoop style is like a loop of short quick trains moving constantly through the network without stopping or turning pretty much
11:00<argoneus>like a swarm
11:00<argoneus>but when I try to do that it's horrible
11:01<@Alberth>coop style requires very careful building
11:02<@Alberth>it's not something you 'just' do
11:03<@Alberth>can you point what is horrible? if you can do that, you can think about ways to avoid the bad thing from happening
11:03<argoneus>well, with my building style I usually end up with one huge overloaded super terminus that branches off to the entire map
11:04<argoneus>there aren't really any traffic jams, but one train has to go from one end of the map to the other to unload
11:04<argoneus>instead of gracefully balancing the load along the entire way somehow
11:04<argoneus>I'm not sure how to explain
11:04<argoneus>like I don't have anything like a main line, it's just a bunch of railroads branching out
11:05<@Alberth>why do you get a central terminus?
11:05<argoneus>because when I have a power plant, it's easy to just connect coal mines to it
11:05<argoneus>instead of trying to start another industry
11:06<@Alberth>make a rule, no more than 5 sources to an industry (or whatever number)
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11:11<argoneus>and when I reach the limit
11:11<argoneus>I want to branch the network out to another industry
11:11<argoneus>?
11:11<@Alberth>next source must go to a different destination
11:12<@Alberth>may go over existing track, imho
11:14<@Alberth>but even if you don't branch, at some point you run out of coal mines, right?
11:15<@Alberth>oh, maybe you play at normal industry density?
11:15<@Alberth>I tend to play low or very low or so
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11:17<@Alberth>which means you get industries mostly in the middle of nowhere
11:19<argoneus>I play at high density
11:19<argoneus>._.
11:20<@Alberth>ah, no need to go across the map then :p
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11:50<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=59689 argoneus this may be fun too, connect all sources to all destinations. It's very tight though, complicated to do
11:51<argoneus>._.
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12:59<__ln__>http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/
13:03<@Alberth>oh joy :(
13:09<Wolf01>:(
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13:26<@Terkhen>and, by extension, in europe too
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14:17<DanMacK>Hey all
14:17<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
14:17<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 7 hours, 34 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <andythenorth> maybe not right now, but in 2 weeks, after holidays
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14:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27345 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2015-07-28 20:18:59 +0200 )
14:19<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: Hide selected view if no object selected.
14:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27346 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-07-28 20:20:54 +0200 )
14:21<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Make the object placement gui an independent window.
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14:58<Danol>Hey
14:59<Danol>Is there a way how to sell all my trains and rails? I want to totally rework my netowrk
15:02<Hiddenfunstuff>theres command to stop AI companies..
15:02<Hiddenfunstuff>But afaik that doesnt apply to the user owned ones
15:03<@planetmaker>AI companies are not owned by users... and yes, a server admin can also delete player companies when no player is inside them
15:03<@planetmaker>reset_company
15:03<Danol>I want to keep the money
15:03<@planetmaker>well :) send them all to depots and then sell them.
15:03<@planetmaker>use the "send to depot" on the global vehicle lists so it's one click
15:03<Danol>Okay
15:04<Danol>but when I reset_company, does it keep my money?
15:04<@planetmaker>no
15:04<@planetmaker>it simply deletes the company and everything it owns
15:04<Danol>Yep
15:04<Danol>that would be the problem
15:04<Danol>Hmm
15:04<Danol>Or I guess I could add that money back by cheat? :P
15:04<Danol>Also, I'd lose ratings in towns, right?
15:04<@planetmaker>well, use the 'send to depot' tactic, if you don't want to start anew and cheat money
15:05<Danol>I want to delete all the rails, too
15:05<Hiddenfunstuff>he got still probably shitload of rails
15:05<@planetmaker>reset_company makes the company non-existent
15:05<Danol>Two shitloads
15:05<@planetmaker>yes, then start a new company and cheat money.
15:05<Hiddenfunstuff>ratings in towns? who gives a damn about those? as long as you can bribe them back up
15:05<@planetmaker>or build a money-maker first: two airports, far apart adjacent to big cities
15:06<Danol>Oh
15:06<Danol>well
15:06<Danol>hm
15:06<Danol>mright
15:06<Danol>well
15:06<@planetmaker>use station-walk to cover the entire town and you'll have big money in no time :)
15:06<Danol>let's try it then
15:06<Danol>sp
15:06<Danol>How do I reset the company? :)
15:07<Danol>Found it
15:07<@planetmaker>start the map in multiplayer... ok :)
15:08<Hiddenfunstuff>Whats wrong with it? every game i play are multiplayer games.. even if they are local
15:10<Danol>Now how do I add that money?
15:10<Danol>in multiplayer
15:10<Danol>(I am the server)
15:15<Hiddenfunstuff>well thats an intresting question.. never through of it
15:15<Danol>heh
15:15<Danol>solved it by going into singleplayer and then cheating it in :D
15:16<Hiddenfunstuff>lol
15:16<@planetmaker>yes, you can only cheat in SP
15:16<Hiddenfunstuff>not even by console?
15:16<Danol>Well, thanks guys :D
15:16<Danol>Console offers only some commands
15:16<Danol>Adding money seems not to be one of them
15:16<Danol>I could kick myself, though
15:17<Hiddenfunstuff>intresting
15:17<Hiddenfunstuff>Iv mostly just told AIs to piss off from my tracks or plans if they build on them with the stop_ai
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15:38<Danol>Hey
15:38<Danol>One question about block entry pre-signal
15:39<Danol>in the wiki, there's written: "If there is at least one green exit pre-signal, the entry pre-signal wil also show green."
15:39<Danol>Does it mean that it will let the train go even if there's a train in the block?
15:42<frosch123>no
15:43<Danol>okay
15:44<Danol>and in that way, does it work like a block signal or path signal? I mean, does it check if there's a path to the green exit signal, or does it go all red when there's train anywhere in the sectin?
15:45<frosch123>"block entry pre-signal" says "block"
15:46<Danol>okay
15:46<Danol>thanks :)
15:49<Danol>loll
15:49<Danol>That was probably a stupid question
15:54<frosch123>luckily andy is gone
15:54<frosch123>otherwise he would troll the bros reddit thread
15:57-!-Biolunar [Biolunar@xd9bf0093.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
15:57<frosch123>"who's Dutch and where is his code?" <- wow
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16:17*Rubidium is and in SCM ;)
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18:01<Wolf01>'night
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19:25<tommy>dose any body knows to get vicals in the game openttd
19:26<Sylf>What exactly are you trying to do?
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19:29<Sylf>If it's about getting started with openttd, including buying vehicles, you can see some tutorials at https://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial
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22:09<supermop>yo
22:13<supermop>back in america, where no one is on irc at the same time as me...
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>poor you
22:35<supermop>i wonder if there is a technical way to say 'i dont care'
22:35<supermop>i need to call out a part as being 30mm square steel tube
22:36<supermop>but it's not structural so i dont care about the wall thickness
23:03<glevans2>supermop: wall thickness irrelevant, wall thickness unimportant, wall thickness not an issue, wall thickness open to interpretation...
23:05<glevans2>wall thickness immaterial
23:36<supermop>went with "as per welder's suggestion"
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 29 00:00:28 2015