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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-07-30

---Logopened Thu Jul 30 00:00:30 2015
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02:39<Wolf01>hi hi
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06:06<Ellon>hi°
06:06<Ellon>Im trying to start arctic map in game but it shows me error that it couldnt generate woods
06:08<Wolf01>too low, you might need more higher mountains, arctic woods need to be placed above the snow line
06:09<Ellon>Are you planning to make 3d openttd?
06:10<Wolf01>I really doubt that
06:11<Ellon>Is it because it takes a lot of time to make 3rd graphics?
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>no, but the whole internal structure must be changed
06:11<Ellon>ah ok
06:12<Wolf01>most of the newgrf graphics come from 3D models, so I think the graphics are the last of the problem :P
06:13<Ellon>What's the problem?
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>the first problem is you need to ditch all the community effort [NewGRFs] of the last ~10 years
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>and once you do that, there are a whole lot of limitations now gone that held back certain developments, which you should adress at this very moment, or they'll creep back in
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>and then a year has passed, without a possibility to release an updated version in the old style, but also without any development of a 3D world
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>meaning that step was probably the death of this project
06:26<Wolf01>but at least we could consider the map rotation (90° steps) :P
06:27<Wolf01>and sprites aren't a problem, in gnomoria they do everything with 1 sprite
06:30<@planetmaker>Wolf01, I doubt that most graphics come from a 3D model.
06:31<@planetmaker>at least not yet
06:31<@planetmaker>and the big problem with rotations is that you need it for all houses and industries (airports exist already, sort of for OpenGFX)
06:32<@planetmaker>and I'm not aware of 3D models for those except some as found in zbase.
06:32<Wolf01>you can mirror the graphics
06:32<Wolf01>ok, for airports you need to rotate the state machine
06:33<@planetmaker>Wolf01, no, you cannot mirror the graphics
06:33<@planetmaker>try that with an irregular one like the refiney or the coal mine
06:33<@planetmaker>*rectangular
06:33<@planetmaker>the sprites will not fit a 90° rotation
06:34<@planetmaker>I thought so, too once. But actually look at them and try :)
06:34<@planetmaker>it's a (common?) fallacy
06:34<Wolf01>uhm, yes, didn't thought about those
06:37<Ellon>ok
06:37<Ellon>hae you thought about adding more stuff to game?
06:38<@planetmaker>we always do. And do just that. There's a plethora of newGRF, game scripts and AI
06:40<@planetmaker>Wolf01, what it needs for 3D rotation is really 3 new sprites for each house and industry sprite. That actually is not that much as it sounds, but still more than just a few dozen :)
06:41<@planetmaker>all other game content hardly needs new sprites for rotation: neither road nor track nor terrain nor trees nor vehicles - they all have that already
06:41<@planetmaker>and for airports we do have that with OpenGFX+Airports as some nice people actually drew those sprites already
06:41<@planetmaker>(and making that NewGRF basically taught me just that: it's not as simple as mirroring. Sadly)
06:42<Wolf01>the problem is that you must drop the support for the original base sets, or disable the rotation if one uses only original base sets without a proper addition
06:42<Wolf01>and that proper addition couldn't be made because copyright and stuff
06:42<@planetmaker>one could skip all 1x1 houses, but it looks nicer with new sprites, too
06:43<@planetmaker>yes... so let's hope for pikka's new one :)
06:44<Wolf01>yeah
06:44<@planetmaker>however an if-clause which queries the base set capabilities would be thinkable, too. Wouldn't be too bad, I think
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a terrible idea
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>also, NewGRFs would block this rotation again
06:47<@planetmaker>Wolf01, actually come think of it, it would be possible as it doesn't add new content / game concept
06:48<@planetmaker>And NewGRFs which provide houses, objects or industries would need a flag indicating their support for rotations
06:48<@planetmaker>which would disable rotation if not set
06:48<@planetmaker>yes. Not a bad idea at all, actually
06:49<@planetmaker>or airports would block it, too. And maybe actionA, simple sprite replacement. Not sure
06:50<@planetmaker>as such, I think this actually *is* a viable path which can be gone. And it's nicely backward compatible
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>for certain definitions of "nicely"
06:53<Ellon>does openttd use new sprites?
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06:54<Eddi|zuHause>what is a "new sprite" for you?
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06:57<@planetmaker>OpenTTD uses sprites and doesn't care about their age ;)
06:58<@planetmaker>as long as they're in the proper format
06:58<Ellon>How about putting this game on steam?
06:59<Wolf01>copyright and stuff
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07:04<Ellon>ok
07:04<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aynBqKY_460sv.mp4 I want this, maybe just a bit more reactive
07:07<Wolf01>I think I'll restart my work about the new more usable fantastic scenario editor tools
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>back in my days we called that sand pit :p
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07:52<dihedral>oi
07:53<Taede>ello
07:54<Wolf01>o/
07:55<dihedral>Wolf01: multi-touch for the map editor and building tools? :-P
07:55<Wolf01>multi-touch would be cool too, as I play on my laptop
07:57<dihedral>and support for touch intensity :-P
07:57<dihedral>so that the beautiful graphite schreens from wacom also are supported
07:58<Wolf01>we need first a touch support, the game is playable but has a lot of features which work with CTRL
07:58<dihedral>[ ] <- touch to activate ctrl
07:59<dihedral>touch to activate shift -> [ ]
07:59<dihedral>[ ] <- touch to f... off
07:59<dihedral>touch to report a bug -> [ ]
07:59<dihedral>touch peter1138
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>never run a touching system
08:55<@planetmaker>nor a touchy system
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09:34<peter1138>Yeah, touch would be nice.
09:34<peter1138>No idea how to implement it though.
09:35<peter1138>I'm guessing SDL is a no-no.
09:35<@planetmaker>SDL2 maybe? No clue about that, though
09:39<peter1138>Mind you my tablet is Windows so I'd have to delve into that.
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10:52<dihedral>yay, peter1138 volunteered :-P
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11:18<argoneus>the tile indexing in this game
11:19<argoneus>(x,y), x is going towards top right?
11:19<argoneus>and y towards bottom right
11:22<argoneus>also, is there a reason squirrel is used and not lua?
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11:26<@planetmaker>no
11:27<@planetmaker>and yes and yes
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>x goes to the bottom left
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>y goes to the bottom right
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>(0,0) is the topmost tile (usually invisible)
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12:18<@Terkhen>hello
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12:59<Taede>@seen frosch123
12:59<@DorpsGek>Taede: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 1 minute, and 32 seconds ago: <frosch123> it has locked 30fps, so why not?
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27347 trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt (2015-07-30 19:45:14 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovenian - 15 changes by matej1245
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14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27348 /branches/1.5 (6 files in 3 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:45:29 +0200 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Password window layout with GUI zoom [FS#6321] (r27304, r27303)
14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Speed-only timetables got assigned times in stations [FS#6313] (r27302, r27301)
14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Enforce the company's default service intervals when purchasing another company [FS#6254] (r27282, r27281)
14:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
14:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27349 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:48:25 +0200 )
14:48<@DorpsGek>[1.5] -Backport from trunk:
14:48<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces [FS#6283] (r27308)
14:48<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom [FS#6259] (r27307)
14:48<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad [FS#6320] (r27306, r27305)
14:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27350 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:50:39 +0200 )
14:50<@DorpsGek>[1.5] -Backport from trunk:
14:50<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Incorrect owner assignment when adding/removing road/tram to/from bridges [FS#6317] (r27313, r27312)
14:50<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Mark infrastructure window dirty in more cases (r27311)
14:50<@DorpsGek>- Change: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings [FS#6283] (r27309)
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27351 /branches/1.5 (4 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:53:31 +0200 )
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not rerandomise the town name when only cost-estimating the founding [FS#6332] (r27341)
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Make variety distribution not assume that sea level is at height 0.2 / 3 * TGPGetMaxHeight() [FS#6335] (r27331, r27330, r27329, r27328)
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Remove corner-case optimisation for line drawing, which failed for dashed lines (r27324)
14:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
14:55<Taede>frosch123, infinite loop fs updated with 'bt full' and also a way to reproduce (seems to work on ps at least)
14:55<frosch123>saw it :)
14:56<Taede>:)
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15:37<@Terkhen>good night
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15:39<Wolf01>yay updated to windows 10!.... no.. just regular updates :|
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16:41<Matthias_>hi there
16:42<a_sad_dude>hi )
16:42<Matthias_>Im also known as Audiopulse or Mace :)
16:43<a_sad_dude>i'm sometimes Virtulis
16:43<a_sad_dude>so, shall we discuss what we wanted in private or in public?
16:43<Matthias_>its your project, so id leave it to you :)
16:45<Matthias_>It doesnt really look like were disturbing anyone here, so Id be fine with just staying here
16:46<a_sad_dude>you wanted me to add Industrial Stations Renewal, was there anything else?
16:46<Matthias_>Theres a GRF called something like bridge-renewal...
16:46<Matthias_>Let me look its exact name up
16:48<a_sad_dude>Total Bridge Renewal Set?
16:48<Matthias_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=38492
16:48<Matthias_>hah, yes, youre right :)
16:49<a_sad_dude>we also need a different trainset I think but one that works with ECS
16:49<Matthias_>Whatever the game - I like mods, but I also like playing in Multiplayer ... so I often go for fewer mod(packs) with the biggest effect... :)
16:49<Matthias_>What is the one called youre using now?
16:50<a_sad_dude>2cc
16:50<Matthias_>Hmm. Thats the one Ive been using in the past...
16:50<Matthias_>I might have to double-check - but so far ive only seen that swiss train being out of balance
16:51<Matthias_>everything else seems fine, train-wise
16:51<a_sad_dude>well it's on default settings and i'm not sure it even has any
16:52<a_sad_dude>ah, it's "2cc in NML". maybe i should have used the default one
16:52<Matthias_>Okay? whats the difference?
16:53<a_sad_dude>no idea, this one is newer, so probably has more bugs
16:53<Matthias_>hehe, that could be :)
16:54<Matthias_>Is it possible to disable single trains in 2cc?
16:56<a_sad_dude>i don't think it is
16:56<Matthias_>If so, then that might be all it takes as I saw some people "abusing" said swiss train...
16:57<Matthias_>Another solution might be switching to a smaller train-pack, as the gameplay with your mod is rather RV-dependant anyways
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16:57<Matthias_>So you probably dont need that many different trains anyways.
16:58<a_sad_dude>currently trying to choose one from here http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Compatibility_list
16:58<a_sad_dude>also needs to be in BaNaNaS
16:59<Matthias_>hmm...
17:01<Matthias_>I had an eye on the UK-renewal-set
17:01<Matthias_>it looked nice ... i dont know any of these sets closer
17:02<Matthias_>Thing is, I know I would miss the wagons from the 2cc-set
17:02<Matthias_>They work well as it gives you an option to choose older, cheaper variants.
17:02<Matthias_>as far as i am aware, no other set does this.
17:03<Matthias_>yet
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17:06<a_sad_dude>well i'm currently checking out NARS and it seems to have different wagons too
17:07<a_sad_dude>I think I'll go with that for the next game and see how it works out
17:09<Matthias_>I was going to suggest that. It sure gives a wide choice of Railvehicles to choose from
17:09<Matthias_>and the look well drawn :)
17:10<Matthias_>hehe
17:10<Matthias_>Me and my Sis were on it
17:11<Matthias_>-> SisBro ;)
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>anyone seen my mouse?
17:11<a_sad_dude>Eddi|zuHause, how did it look?
17:12<a_sad_dude>Matthias_, so why haven't you won yet
17:12<Matthias_>Hehehe
17:12<Matthias_>I tried to give everyone else a chance :D
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17:23<Matthias_>Im actually getting lag on my Laptop
17:23<a_sad_dude>which continent are you on?
17:24<Matthias_>Continent Germany.
17:24<a_sad_dude>that's weird because the server is in France. should be superfast
17:24<Matthias_>Its probably my Laptop.
17:24<a_sad_dude>probably
17:25<Matthias_>I never had that before with OTTD, but then again - so far ive mostly been using trains...
17:25<Matthias_>instead of these heaps of trucks ;)
17:26-!-urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
17:28<Matthias_>it always breaks my heart a little, when i see your (leaving)message ingame
17:28<Matthias_>:D
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17:33<a_sad_dude>openttd crashed, that's new
17:33<a_sad_dude>or maybe it didn't
17:33<a_sad_dude>i'm not even sure what happened
17:35<a_sad_dude>so, shall we race to 5k?
17:36<Matthias_>lets try :)
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17:52<Wolf01>'night
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18:01<Matthias_>666 Crates of Goods... mmh...
18:02<Matthias_>Could be Bibles
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>basically everything known about this section of the bible points to "666" referring "Nero" and the roman empire as the "big evil"
18:06<Matthias_>Whats interesting to note - I think my Furniture-factory actually doesnt load the goods fast enough on the Trucks...
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>(including the "616" that some early bibles contained in this section, which based the number of a different spelling)
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18:07<Matthias_>Even though theres pretty much at any time between 1 to 10 trucks waiting - i have a percentage of 67 of goods transported
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>that is normal
18:08<Matthias_>thougt so... its a shame, though.
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>67% is "always something loading", to get higher you need further tricks like high vehicle speed, a statue in the town
18:08<Matthias_>it means id have to spread to other furniture-factories to maximise output.
18:08<Matthias_>but i kinda liked sticking to one chain with sad dudes mod.
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>how does multiple factories help you?
18:09<a_sad_dude>Matthias_, maybe it's not on full power yet
18:09<Matthias_>youre right, sad, its at 50% ... i thougt it was on ultimate already :)
18:10<a_sad_dude>which town is it?
18:10<Matthias_>Bufingpool
18:10<a_sad_dude>Eddi|zuHause, we're talking about ECS where industries have limits
18:10<Matthias_>If you want to get this game won by someone, feel free to join our company
18:11<a_sad_dude>haha
18:11<a_sad_dude>let me go bankrupt first
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>you can also try an advertising campaign, if the station is close to the town center
18:11<Matthias_>I can recommend Hovercrafts for that cause... :D
18:11<a_sad_dude>1304 tons of food and 5 trucks to carry it before the next season. oops.
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>but you need to repeat that regularly
18:12<Matthias_>I just realised, i need glass to step up production, eddy, but thanks :)
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18:13<Matthias_>Ill send you the Corp-PW ingame, sad... feel free to use it...
18:14<Matthias_>should i buy your old corp?
18:14<a_sad_dude>oh
18:14<a_sad_dude>can you?
18:14<Matthias_>yes
18:14<a_sad_dude>thought i disabled it, apparently not
18:14<a_sad_dude>please do
18:15<Matthias_>Done
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>if a company is about to go bankrupt, the other companies get an offer to buy it even in multiplayer
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>buying out through the stock market is disabled in multiplayer
18:15<Matthias_>you got the PW, dude?
18:16<a_sad_dude>yep
18:16<Matthias_>good good
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18:25<Matthias_>Kai has been on and off all day...
18:25<Matthias_>He mustve sprinkled the map with, like, 6-8 companies :D
18:25<Matthias_>maybe more :D
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18:54<a_sad_dude>oh...
18:55<a_sad_dude>not sure what to do. autoclean cleans everything up regardless of how much work you put into it, so i disabled it
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19:05<Matthias_>its fine. Theres enough space on the map... Night dude! Night everyone.
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 31 00:00:31 2015